|
On September 14 2013 10:39 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 09:41 Yacobs wrote:On September 14 2013 04:53 karazax wrote:On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero. I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on. There is strategy and tactics in other real-time multiplayer games. The problem with MMOs is complex but the concept of "aggro" and the need for the Holy Trifecta are symptoms of the core issues that are legacy. Basically terrain is meaningless (except for not "standing in the fire"), enemy AI is meaningless (they just mindlessly attack whoever has aggro), and hero abilities are typically completely lacking tactical possibilities (all variations of "Do X damage + apply Y minor status effect"). That's just off the top of my head. The height of hard combat encounters in MMOs are not about tactics/strategy/problem solving, they are basically "puzzles" that must be solved by very specific almost choreographed actions and by wearing a minimum of gear quality. MMOs are a simple test of mechanical execution and time spent grinding. I mean you're clearly not looking for an MMO?
Who said I'm looking for an MMO? This is a discussion brought on by the guy who posted his ridiculously convoluted rotation as evidence that FFXIV's DPS combat requires skill.
And saying "well you just don't like MMOs!!" to any kind of criticism is sort of lame, don't you think? How about stepping back and thinking whether things could be improved?
|
On September 14 2013 21:30 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 10:39 Nos- wrote:On September 14 2013 09:41 Yacobs wrote:On September 14 2013 04:53 karazax wrote:On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero. I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on. There is strategy and tactics in other real-time multiplayer games. The problem with MMOs is complex but the concept of "aggro" and the need for the Holy Trifecta are symptoms of the core issues that are legacy. Basically terrain is meaningless (except for not "standing in the fire"), enemy AI is meaningless (they just mindlessly attack whoever has aggro), and hero abilities are typically completely lacking tactical possibilities (all variations of "Do X damage + apply Y minor status effect"). That's just off the top of my head. The height of hard combat encounters in MMOs are not about tactics/strategy/problem solving, they are basically "puzzles" that must be solved by very specific almost choreographed actions and by wearing a minimum of gear quality. MMOs are a simple test of mechanical execution and time spent grinding. I mean you're clearly not looking for an MMO? Who said I'm looking for an MMO? This is a discussion brought on by the guy who posted his ridiculously convoluted rotation as evidence that FFXIV's DPS combat requires skill. And saying "well you just don't like MMOs!!" to any kind of criticism is sort of lame, don't you think? How about stepping back and thinking whether things could be improved?
The game isn't the most exciting for me, but I had a realization: "compared to the classic style final fantasy games (1-10 in my book), how does this compare?" In those games you don't do much but spam the Fight button until you reach a boss where you need to combat some sort of gimmick that, once solved, is trivial. Or, you just need to grind more levels to be able to tank the hits. The appeal of those games in my opinion was in the world, the characters, and the large amount of content.
FF14 does pretty well with those last parts most would argue. Not every game has to be intense and strategic and complicated.
Also, the post you originally replied to listed that rotation to compare it to WoW, a similarly themed game. Because the person HE responded to implied that the rotations were very simple. Now that I think about it a bit more I have literlly no idea what position you are trying to argue here; the person that you responded to effectively proved that the combat takes skill in comparison to the skill needed to play WoW.
|
Yacobs I think you need to just accept that a good deal of people like the game how it is, and from that perspective, why fix what aint broke?
Personally I agree with you, the repetition thats kind of inherent in mmorpgs eventually drives me to boredom, and I would like a game that combined the fantastic worldbuilding and community interaction with a combat system that kept me more engaged, but whose to say that the people who like FFXIV the way it is would like this hypothetical game that you and I would enjoy?
|
On September 14 2013 21:30 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 10:39 Nos- wrote:On September 14 2013 09:41 Yacobs wrote:On September 14 2013 04:53 karazax wrote:On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero. I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on. There is strategy and tactics in other real-time multiplayer games. The problem with MMOs is complex but the concept of "aggro" and the need for the Holy Trifecta are symptoms of the core issues that are legacy. Basically terrain is meaningless (except for not "standing in the fire"), enemy AI is meaningless (they just mindlessly attack whoever has aggro), and hero abilities are typically completely lacking tactical possibilities (all variations of "Do X damage + apply Y minor status effect"). That's just off the top of my head. The height of hard combat encounters in MMOs are not about tactics/strategy/problem solving, they are basically "puzzles" that must be solved by very specific almost choreographed actions and by wearing a minimum of gear quality. MMOs are a simple test of mechanical execution and time spent grinding. I mean you're clearly not looking for an MMO? Who said I'm looking for an MMO? This is a discussion brought on by the guy who posted his ridiculously convoluted rotation as evidence that FFXIV's DPS combat requires skill. And saying "well you just don't like MMOs!!" to any kind of criticism is sort of lame, don't you think? How about stepping back and thinking whether things could be improved?
Your argument basically applies to any RPG once people look up strategies, from Dark Souls, to non-MMO final fantasy titles, to fuckin' diablo. The social and repetitive aspects, which lead people to talk, refine and streamline things (to teach), are what you're complaining about, not the design.
|
On September 14 2013 21:30 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 10:39 Nos- wrote:On September 14 2013 09:41 Yacobs wrote:On September 14 2013 04:53 karazax wrote:On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero. I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on. There is strategy and tactics in other real-time multiplayer games. The problem with MMOs is complex but the concept of "aggro" and the need for the Holy Trifecta are symptoms of the core issues that are legacy. Basically terrain is meaningless (except for not "standing in the fire"), enemy AI is meaningless (they just mindlessly attack whoever has aggro), and hero abilities are typically completely lacking tactical possibilities (all variations of "Do X damage + apply Y minor status effect"). That's just off the top of my head. The height of hard combat encounters in MMOs are not about tactics/strategy/problem solving, they are basically "puzzles" that must be solved by very specific almost choreographed actions and by wearing a minimum of gear quality. MMOs are a simple test of mechanical execution and time spent grinding. I mean you're clearly not looking for an MMO? Who said I'm looking for an MMO? This is a discussion brought on by the guy who posted his ridiculously convoluted rotation as evidence that FFXIV's DPS combat requires skill. And saying "well you just don't like MMOs!!" to any kind of criticism is sort of lame, don't you think? How about stepping back and thinking whether things could be improved?
PvE is always going to be a bit 'puzzle'-ish since you're fighting a computer. Mega Man is like that too - figure out the patterns and execute well. I mean, I'd love it if the computer could react to what your group is doing and change strategies, but there are limitations to what AI can do and limitations to how well a given group of programmers can code the AI.
If you want something moar dynamic I'd recommend going PvP once it's available.
|
is there a demo or starter edition of the game?
|
On September 15 2013 05:44 UniversalSnip wrote:
is there a demo or starter edition of the game?
I dont think so, considering you cant even buy it digitally at the moment, they dont want to waste more bandwidth on a free demo. Cheap bastards...lol sorry, just been waiting awhile to play this godamn game.
|
I want to play.
Edit: Why does it seem so easy to reach lv50? Seems like tons of people already have multiple lv50 characters already.
|
On September 15 2013 10:49 DemigodcelpH wrote:
I want to play.
Edit: Why does it seem so easy to reach lv50? Seems like tons of people already have multiple lv50 characters already.
you can use the same char to reach lvl 50 in multiple classes; you get an xp bonus for doing so. probably people playing one char multiclassing
|
On September 15 2013 10:49 DemigodcelpH wrote:
I want to play.
Edit: Why does it seem so easy to reach lv50? Seems like tons of people already have multiple lv50 characters already.
1) Legacy Characters
2) Fame Farming is incredibly quick.
3) You get an experience bonus on your non-main class.
|
The game start after you get 50, same with most MMO
|
are there any class gives a buffs to stats ? when I queue into a dungeon i have about 5 extra strats than when I'm not inside a dungeon.
|
Party give member bonus, you can see it on top of your Party list
|
|
|
On September 14 2013 21:30 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 10:39 Nos- wrote:On September 14 2013 09:41 Yacobs wrote:On September 14 2013 04:53 karazax wrote:On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero. I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on. There is strategy and tactics in other real-time multiplayer games. The problem with MMOs is complex but the concept of "aggro" and the need for the Holy Trifecta are symptoms of the core issues that are legacy. Basically terrain is meaningless (except for not "standing in the fire"), enemy AI is meaningless (they just mindlessly attack whoever has aggro), and hero abilities are typically completely lacking tactical possibilities (all variations of "Do X damage + apply Y minor status effect"). That's just off the top of my head. The height of hard combat encounters in MMOs are not about tactics/strategy/problem solving, they are basically "puzzles" that must be solved by very specific almost choreographed actions and by wearing a minimum of gear quality. MMOs are a simple test of mechanical execution and time spent grinding. I mean you're clearly not looking for an MMO? Who said I'm looking for an MMO? This is a discussion brought on by the guy who posted his ridiculously convoluted rotation as evidence that FFXIV's DPS combat requires skill. And saying "well you just don't like MMOs!!" to any kind of criticism is sort of lame, don't you think? How about stepping back and thinking whether things could be improved?
Convoluted? I posted the first rotation. Not the rotations that follow which only get harder because of having to rotate cd's properly. I'm sorry that micromanaging cd's is convoluted to you. Like others said, you probably just shouldn't play. This is how MMO's are and always will be. You min max your rotation for highest dps. Then you try to apply that in boss fights where bosses attempt to stop you from using that min max'd rotation. I'm sure you watched the Titan HM fight and went "well that's ez just dodge no skill dps." If you're not going to play the game at 50 and actually do HM/Coil then don't talk about it lol. Anyone can watch videos on shit and say it's ezpz. Sad part is tanks actually have the easiest job in the game. And anyone in my guild will tell you that. You pull it to a corner and then yyou stand there. No dodging anything, no moving, just spam 123.
Just to poke more fun at you, here's a longer fight rotation. Now you can cry and say it's convoluted if you would like.
+ Show Spoiler +HT-ID-Dis-CT-TT-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT-HT-TT-VT-FT-ID-Dis-CT-TT-VT-FT-HT-TT-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT-ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT
|
On September 14 2013 07:41 PandaCore wrote:
Are there any skills from other classes that give WHM any additional benefit?
Virus and Eye for an Eye from ACN are also useful for mitigation.
|
Hey guys, im going to go looking for a boxed copy tomorrow, however, i have no optical drive, will i be able to input the CD key and download the game? I ask since the digital sales have been halted, maybe we are not allowed to download the game at all, and i will be forced to get a dvd drive to install the damn thing hehe. Thanks.
|
On September 16 2013 15:07 rebuffering wrote:
Hey guys, im going to go looking for a boxed copy tomorrow, however, i have no optical drive, will i be able to input the CD key and download the game? I ask since the digital sales have been halted, maybe we are not allowed to download the game at all, and i will be forced to get a dvd drive to install the damn thing hehe. Thanks.
http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/playersdownload/na/
You can use that link to download the game, since you are getting a box ver. you can easily just register the code for your account and play right away
|
On September 16 2013 16:18 Kyyuna wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 15:07 rebuffering wrote:
Hey guys, im going to go looking for a boxed copy tomorrow, however, i have no optical drive, will i be able to input the CD key and download the game? I ask since the digital sales have been halted, maybe we are not allowed to download the game at all, and i will be forced to get a dvd drive to install the damn thing hehe. Thanks. http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/playersdownload/na/You can use that link to download the game, since you are getting a box ver. you can easily just register the code for your account and play right away
Thanks very much, will try to d-load after this game o' Dotes.
|
On September 15 2013 18:56 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 10:49 DemigodcelpH wrote:
I want to play.
Edit: Why does it seem so easy to reach lv50? Seems like tons of people already have multiple lv50 characters already. you can use the same char to reach lvl 50 in multiple classes; you get an xp bonus for doing so. probably people playing one char multiclassing
On September 15 2013 19:09 ReignSupreme. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 10:49 DemigodcelpH wrote:
I want to play.
Edit: Why does it seem so easy to reach lv50? Seems like tons of people already have multiple lv50 characters already. 1) Legacy Characters 2) Fame Farming is incredibly quick. 3) You get an experience bonus on your non-main class.
People on the main board seem to be saying that leveling is "way too easy". I guess it's fine though as long as there's lots to do. I haven't played yet obviously, but it seems like they're going to be adding a lot more endgame content in the coming patch.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
