|
United States1222 Posts
Until there's a significant enrage timer, bad DPS can be more easily carried than a bad healer or tank. Hence the reason you can carry them before hard modes.
|
Eh, anything before finishing main story is pretty much an extended tutorial that people go through in a couple days to a week. HM is where the game actually start.
Also the trick for DPS is not doing enough damage, is to stay alive. For Titan, just about anyone getting hit by any of his move would result in wipe.
|
On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see.
This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero.
|
On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero.
But different boss fights/dungeon mechanics keep you on your toes and throw a wrench in the "optimal" dps rotations. It's the same in WoW (especially WoW, actually) and most other MMORPGs. Not to mention, MMORPGS aren't supposed take omg-wtf-incredible amounts of skill, that's not really the point. That's why we have games like Starcraft 2 
|
On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero.
you can always play healer if you want to think more about what to cast and not have a rotation.
Also, its horrible FOR YOU maybe. Millions play these games.
|
On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero.
it did make me lol. like, that's the pinnacle? ouch.
|
On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero.
I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on.
|
Are there any skills from other classes that give WHM any additional benefit?
|
On September 14 2013 07:41 PandaCore wrote:
Are there any skills from other classes that give WHM any additional benefit?
Thaumaturge. Swift Cast at 26. Is insanely important for the insta cast battle res.
|
swiftcast is so huge. Instant rez, instant cure 2 , instant medica...can all save fights. And its only 60 seconds cooldown.
There is also eye for an eye for 10% dmg reduction.
|
On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero.
Yes because obviously every boss just stands there and lets me get optimal rotations. Yes because no bosses teleport or disappear and remove any sort of maledictions. There is always an optimized rotation. That's the end all be all of MMO. It has been and will always be there. Whether or not you can do it is where skill comes. Whether or not it's actually beneficial to get the full rotation off or to cut it in half depending on the mob is skill. But keep trying to dumb things down. Play the game. It's a real easy way to see for yourself.
And to the first post on the page talking about enrage timers, every HM boss has them. Dunno what you're talking about. HM Titan has a Hard enrage (heart) and soft (tumult building stomps).
|
im a bit late compared to you guys, but i looooved the ultima fight.
It just throws ALL THE THINGS at the group. I was sceptical about this paragraphing skill hits stuff, BUT ITS AWESOME.
This allows the bosses to do tons of stuff without it being completely hardcore.
if you think you can just do some rotation in this game, watch the fight on youtube. And thats just an easy story fight with a random group.
|
On September 14 2013 04:53 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero. I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on.
There is strategy and tactics in other real-time multiplayer games. The problem with MMOs is complex but the concept of "aggro" and the need for the Holy Trifecta are symptoms of the core issues that are legacy. Basically terrain is meaningless (except for not "standing in the fire"), enemy AI is meaningless (they just mindlessly attack whoever has aggro), and hero abilities are typically completely lacking tactical possibilities (all variations of "Do X damage + apply Y minor status effect"). That's just off the top of my head.
The height of hard combat encounters in MMOs are not about tactics/strategy/problem solving, they are basically "puzzles" that must be solved by very specific almost choreographed actions and by wearing a minimum of gear quality. MMOs are a simple test of mechanical execution and time spent grinding.
|
you can play mount and blade or other things for what you want.
This mmo is specifically made for tank-healer-dps system and they executed it very well.
This is what the game wants to do, it does it well and people like it to they point where all servers are full.
|
On September 14 2013 09:41 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 04:53 karazax wrote:On September 14 2013 02:50 Yacobs wrote:On September 13 2013 16:38 Infernal_dream wrote:On September 13 2013 15:57 Tobberoth wrote:On September 13 2013 08:48 kainzero wrote:
I thought DPS comes from people liking big numbers.
Is there such thing as a skilled DPS? I accidentally rolled bard because I liked the role in FFXI and now I'm dps and not support. And so far it's really boring rotations.
At least in WoW, the difference between a decent dpser and a great dpser is massive. I'm afraid there's a limited amount of skill in FFXIV overall though, the gameplay (as far as I've seen) just doesn't really allow it since it's made to be fair crossplatform. Long global cooldowns and lack of skills, simple rotations means the challenge has to come from the positioning, which is something you get used to quite quickly. Please wait until youv'e done hard modes yourself. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Long GCD's mean when you fuck up a rotation you fuck your dps a lot harder. Positional things are not the easiest to get off in the middle of 50 aoes. I'm sorry, simple rotations? HT > PS > PH > JU > FR > SB > ID > DFD > DI > BFB > CT > LS> IR > HT > VT > LS > FT Now. Three of those are dots. Two of them are buffs. Two dots last 18 seconds, one lasts 30. One buff lasts 20 seconds, the other lasts 30. Jumps are off GCD meaning I can use them between attacks, however they have .5 second longer animation than GCD so I have to rotate them properly. Half of those skills are positional. Please don't talk out of your ass. The difference between a good and great DPS in this game is more than easy to see. This post is a classic example of why MMORPG combat is horrible. Instead of thinking about tactics and strategy, you are basically spinning plates while juggling until a health bar goes to zero. I'm not sure what a viable combat replacement alternative would be for a game that relies on real time multiplayer co-op vs ai opponents. Most mmo bosses do have a strategy that has to be figured out to succeed, but unless you are doing world firsts, chances are there will be a video guide to reference by the time you attempt them explaining what that winning strategy is. Even so, you still have to get everyone involved to successfully execute the strategy. I guess you could have something like blood line champions where you have to manually aim all your powers and heals, rather than click or tab targeting and locking on. There is strategy and tactics in other real-time multiplayer games. The problem with MMOs is complex but the concept of "aggro" and the need for the Holy Trifecta are symptoms of the core issues that are legacy. Basically terrain is meaningless (except for not "standing in the fire"), enemy AI is meaningless (they just mindlessly attack whoever has aggro), and hero abilities are typically completely lacking tactical possibilities (all variations of "Do X damage + apply Y minor status effect"). That's just off the top of my head. The height of hard combat encounters in MMOs are not about tactics/strategy/problem solving, they are basically "puzzles" that must be solved by very specific almost choreographed actions and by wearing a minimum of gear quality. MMOs are a simple test of mechanical execution and time spent grinding.
I mean you're clearly not looking for an MMO?
|
Solving a "puzzle" and carrying out precise choreographed actions is your definition of requiring no tactics/strategy/problem solving? What is your definition of these words then?
|
Need some quick help - so I previously warped out before doing the Ifrit fight (the lvl 20 one) because there was nobody around doing it, how do I reenter that 'jail' zone again to do the fight?
Thanks in advance!!
|
On September 14 2013 11:41 Zealot Lord wrote:
Need some quick help - so I previously warped out before doing the Ifrit fight (the lvl 20 one) because there was nobody around doing it, how do I reenter that 'jail' zone again to do the fight?
Thanks in advance!!
Use duty finder!
|
Just cleared Turn 4 of Coil of Bahamut on Gilgamesh. Pretty exciting considering our group just
started coil last week Sunday.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Hey, newbie questions:
How do I get Summon II as an arcanist? I'm lvl 17 and it seems like the required level for it is 15 but I can't find out how to summon the secondary type.
I finished delivering the letters to the other city-state leaders and it seems like my main quest chain has run out. Can someone point me to where I'm supposed to go, or am I just supposed to grind a bit until 20?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hDtVqz0.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aKAa6dS.png)
