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On November 07 2012 03:34 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 00:44 Dusty wrote:
Beat the game with a standard warrior, 2handing it most of the way through. I want to do a second run of the game but to do a somewhat different playstyle. What are some fun builds that you guys like to do when bored of cutting everything down with a sword? I did a big heavy armor (havels) + grass crest + (strength) 2h build my first play through and i felt cheated. It was really easy to just tank through everything. Basically dumped all points into hp, endurance and strength. I'm on my second play through now using a full dex, endurance (eventually some int) build using +4 chaos blade and +14 washing pole. I haven't put any points into vitality at all. I'm doing this build while wearing <25% load and dark wood grain ring. I have almost 0 poise and I can't take too many hits. This build has made me a 10x better player because I totally and completely rely on avoidance. I simply can't get hit, even 1 or 2 hits means death for me because I won't recover. I feel everyone should make one of these characters once just to become super boss mode at dodging. It's amazing how much better i've become at recognizing patterns on bosses etc., and how easily I can avoid being hit. I used to just hold up my shield, take the hit, switch 2h and ravage everything. I'm currently clearing to 4K after beating S&O so I can join darkwraiths this time. Last time I placed the lord vessel first and was unable. I think my dex guy is currently SL54.
I just did something similar as well, started a fresh int/dex character when AotA DLC came out on consoles. It's a whole different ball game. Got stuck and frustrated on fights that I could normally 1-shot. It really gives you an appreciation for playing this game with true patience, waiting forever for small safe hits and taking very few risks. Artorias himself is quite interesting lol....
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Beat the game for a third or fourth time but I dont think Im gonna do much more. Because of one thing.
Move buffering.
This game buffers inputs like a big dog and also does it incorrectly. Not sure who made the executive decision to let dodge moves get buffered so long that if you are late you'll do the dodge after you recover.
Its frustrating when your character doesnt do what you tell it to do because of legacy inputs.
That and parrying can be frustrating. I dont like how you can parry TOO well and the attack lands before you enter your parrying frames, so you get the scenario where you just half block the attack. Which of course sets you up for move buffering since youve already taken care of the riposte input. So the enemy gets a nice whack at your face which on the newer games is pretty much GG.
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On November 07 2012 13:31 Medrea wrote:
Beat the game for a third or fourth time but I dont think Im gonna do much more. Because of one thing.
Move buffering.
This game buffers inputs like a big dog and also does it incorrectly. Not sure who made the executive decision to let dodge moves get buffered so long that if you are late you'll do the dodge after you recover.
Its frustrating when your character doesnt do what you tell it to do because of legacy inputs.
That and parrying can be frustrating. I dont like how you can parry TOO well and the attack lands before you enter your parrying frames, so you get the scenario where you just half block the attack. Which of course sets you up for move buffering since youve already taken care of the riposte input. So the enemy gets a nice whack at your face which on the newer games is pretty much GG.
Umm.... Get better with your dodge timing then? If you got hit and then dodged afterwards, you were nowhere near the right timing to dodge the attack, it's not an instant dodge. That doesn't happen unless you are way off. And the parrying is not instant either. If you were slightly off and get the partial parry(I assume that's what you mean by half block), that's actually just fine. Partial parry reduces almost all damage(like 70%+) and makes you take no poise damage either, and it works on every attack in the game, so it's most certainly not gg. There's no such thing as parry too well, you either parried, partial parried, or totally whiffed, and sometimes you may be aiming for partial parry anyway. You don't have to buffer the riposte, you actually have quite a long time after the parry to hit it, at least a full second, it's actually long enough to switch weapons or go 2 handed before you riposte. You can move closer if you know you're out of range and even move side to side for a second before riposting if you like.
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Yeah partial parry. I just dont like move buffering sorry. Its just too much. In the 90's we called this having sticky controls. It was a bad thing, and its pretty much a known science how to handle commands through the buffer.
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To each his own I guess. I personally kinda like how buffering an action forces me to fully commit, can't change the action after. Makes me be deliberate with my timing and input, and only buffer when I am completely sure of what I want to do. If I know I'm going to hit the parry after I hit the button or dodge roll an attack I'll buffer an attack, but if I'm not absolutely sure or know I'm was off on the timing I won't, buffering doesn't give enough of a speed advantage to really matter anyways and punishes mistakes harshly if I wasn't on point. Something about the unforgiving nature and need for skill makes it really hardcore and enjoyable for me.
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I don't know much about that parry stuff, but the buffering can be really annoying at times. It's something I'll subconciously adapt to after I play for a while, and then when I take a break for a couple weeks and come back I'll be mashing those buttons and get all kinds of messed up lol.
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Its not the fact that Dark Souls buffers inputs, its the way in which it does it. Instead of taking the last valid command at the end of the previous animation cycle, it takes the FIRST command entered when the previous animations buffer time begins.
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Exactly. It's very archaic; strange from a design perspective. Intentional, or an awkward by-product?
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I dunno about archaic but generally games that do it this way have a way shorter buffer period. Or they have it so that the follow through of the previous animation is interrupted with the beginning of the next one. Like a fighting game. Or Devil May Cry.
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Buffering punishes button mashing in PvP, I like it.
On November 07 2012 13:48 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 13:31 Medrea wrote:
Beat the game for a third or fourth time but I dont think Im gonna do much more. Because of one thing.
Move buffering.
This game buffers inputs like a big dog and also does it incorrectly. Not sure who made the executive decision to let dodge moves get buffered so long that if you are late you'll do the dodge after you recover.
Its frustrating when your character doesnt do what you tell it to do because of legacy inputs.
That and parrying can be frustrating. I dont like how you can parry TOO well and the attack lands before you enter your parrying frames, so you get the scenario where you just half block the attack. Which of course sets you up for move buffering since youve already taken care of the riposte input. So the enemy gets a nice whack at your face which on the newer games is pretty much GG. Umm.... Get better with your dodge timing then? If you got hit and then dodged afterwards, you were nowhere near the right timing to dodge the attack, it's not an instant dodge. That doesn't happen unless you are way off. And the parrying is not instant either. If you were slightly off and get the partial parry(I assume that's what you mean by half block), that's actually just fine. Partial parry reduces almost all damage(like 70%+) and makes you take no poise damage either, and it works on every attack in the game, so it's most certainly not gg. There's no such thing as parry too well, you either parried, partial parried, or totally whiffed, and sometimes you may be aiming for partial parry anyway. You don't have to buffer the riposte, you actually have quite a long time after the parry to hit it, at least a full second, it's actually long enough to switch weapons or go 2 handed before you riposte. You can move closer if you know you're out of range and even move side to side for a second before riposting if you like.
Long story short, don't go talking about parrying frames and buffering and all that fancy crap to justify the fact that you fucked up a parry, getting a "half block" simply means your timing wasn't good enough, it was close, but not good enough.
As Fyrewolf said, get better with your timing, this goes for parrying, dodging, attacking, everything, the invincibility frames on a fast roll are NOT instantaneous and neither are your parry frames, just because it's part of the parry animation does not mean the animation is 1 big parry window cos that would be silly, you need to hit it at a certain time and if you don't do that right you will either get a partial parry or a smack in the face.
I'm curious which enemies you're facing in NG+ that are capable of finishing you in 1 hit, did you never bother to put stats into VIT?
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No. To all of that. EDIT: You can check my stream to see what Im talking about.
Anyway I killed Ingward and he didnt drop the key. My playthrough is ruined I think?
Im not gonna do the thing where I break the game open to get my key back.
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On November 09 2012 07:57 Medrea wrote:
No. To all of that.
Anyway I killed Ingward and he didnt drop the key. My playthrough is ruined I think?
Im not gonna do the thing where I break the game open to get my key back.
Yeah that playthrough is screwed. It's a completely gamebreaking glitch that got introduced in the pc version. It doesn't always happen though, sometimes you do get the key, but it's not worth the risk.
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Well I was trying to get Lautrec to tip me off about Petrus so I decided to do everything possible before ringing the second bell of awakening.
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On November 08 2012 02:01 FlamingForce wrote:Buffering punishes button mashing in PvP, I like it. + Show Spoiler +On November 07 2012 13:48 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 13:31 Medrea wrote:
Beat the game for a third or fourth time but I dont think Im gonna do much more. Because of one thing.
Move buffering.
This game buffers inputs like a big dog and also does it incorrectly. Not sure who made the executive decision to let dodge moves get buffered so long that if you are late you'll do the dodge after you recover.
Its frustrating when your character doesnt do what you tell it to do because of legacy inputs.
That and parrying can be frustrating. I dont like how you can parry TOO well and the attack lands before you enter your parrying frames, so you get the scenario where you just half block the attack. Which of course sets you up for move buffering since youve already taken care of the riposte input. So the enemy gets a nice whack at your face which on the newer games is pretty much GG. Umm.... Get better with your dodge timing then? If you got hit and then dodged afterwards, you were nowhere near the right timing to dodge the attack, it's not an instant dodge. That doesn't happen unless you are way off. And the parrying is not instant either. If you were slightly off and get the partial parry(I assume that's what you mean by half block), that's actually just fine. Partial parry reduces almost all damage(like 70%+) and makes you take no poise damage either, and it works on every attack in the game, so it's most certainly not gg. There's no such thing as parry too well, you either parried, partial parried, or totally whiffed, and sometimes you may be aiming for partial parry anyway. You don't have to buffer the riposte, you actually have quite a long time after the parry to hit it, at least a full second, it's actually long enough to switch weapons or go 2 handed before you riposte. You can move closer if you know you're out of range and even move side to side for a second before riposting if you like. Long story short, don't go talking about parrying frames and buffering and all that fancy crap to justify the fact that you fucked up a parry, getting a "half block" simply means your timing wasn't good enough, it was close, but not good enough. As Fyrewolf said, get better with your timing, this goes for parrying, dodging, attacking, everything, the invincibility frames on a fast roll are NOT instantaneous and neither are your parry frames, just because it's part of the parry animation does not mean the animation is 1 big parry window cos that would be silly, you need to hit it at a certain time and if you don't do that right you will either get a partial parry or a smack in the face. I'm curious which enemies you're facing in NG+ that are capable of finishing you in 1 hit, did you never bother to put stats into VIT?
That's how I see it. It's a different style. The buffering really isn't there to speed up your actions(even if it does make it ever so slightly faster) like how it's used in a fighting game(where changing your input is allowed, but the time frame is short). It's there to punish mistakes and button mashing so it doesn't allow you to change input easily, you're committed to your actions.
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On November 09 2012 07:57 Medrea wrote:
No. To all of that. EDIT: You can check my stream to see what Im talking about.
Anyway I killed Ingward and he didnt drop the key. My playthrough is ruined I think?
Im not gonna do the thing where I break the game open to get my key back.
Fine, be ignorant, what I posted there was nothing but a wall of facts, mind you, I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion to just say "No" to the game mechanics that are obviously testing your ability.
I took a look at a saved stream vid of yours and I really don't see anything out of the ordinary, I'm not watching the entire 53 minutes of it for specifics.
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Okay
Wonder what happens if I return the lordvessel, anyway. Im thinking maybe itll be in the lost and found box but im thinking no.
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On November 09 2012 09:45 Medrea wrote:
Okay
Wonder what happens if I return the lordvessel, anyway. Im thinking maybe itll be in the lost and found box but im thinking no.
I think no also, multiple sources I've looked at says no. That chest is a failsafe for returning quest items you drop and lose, but you have to get the quest item in your inventory and drop it for it to show up. Since you never actually got the key, it will not show up there. The only way for you to get the key is to alter the game memory to replace another item with it, as is shown in this example here. You've already said you're reluctant to do so, but it's the only known way. Making another char isn't so bad though. Once you know how to play and get good you can speedrun through most of the game pretty quickly and easily(some people have gotten down to 35 min). This bug definitely sucks though.
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On November 09 2012 10:45 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 09:45 Medrea wrote:
Okay
Wonder what happens if I return the lordvessel, anyway. Im thinking maybe itll be in the lost and found box but im thinking no. I think no also, multiple sources I've looked at says no. That chest is a failsafe for returning quest items you drop and lose, but you have to get the quest item in your inventory and drop it for it to show up. Since you never actually got the key, it will not show up there. The only way for you to get the key is to alter the game memory to replace another item with it, as is shown in this example here. You've already said you're reluctant to do so, but it's the only known way. Making another char isn't so bad though. Once you know how to play and get good you can speedrun through most of the game pretty quickly and easily(some people have gotten down to 35 min). This bug definitely sucks though.
The 35 min run skips everything after O&S to go straight to Gywn, using a glitch lol.
Not that I'm refuting your point that it's quite easy to skip a lot of stuff to get down to business, of course. I do it quite often myself nowadays. I pretty much ran through all of Duke's Archives and Crystal Caves on my most recent playthrough, stopping only for bonfires and boss. Archers are a bitch.
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I've recently discovered halberds rock
I mean... Gargoyle Halberd has an amazing moveset!! Love my "medium armor" halberdier, lots of fun! Gonna get some lightning on that shit and see how it works out
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On November 09 2012 11:13 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 10:45 Fyrewolf wrote:On November 09 2012 09:45 Medrea wrote:
Okay
Wonder what happens if I return the lordvessel, anyway. Im thinking maybe itll be in the lost and found box but im thinking no. I think no also, multiple sources I've looked at says no. That chest is a failsafe for returning quest items you drop and lose, but you have to get the quest item in your inventory and drop it for it to show up. Since you never actually got the key, it will not show up there. The only way for you to get the key is to alter the game memory to replace another item with it, as is shown in this example here. You've already said you're reluctant to do so, but it's the only known way. Making another char isn't so bad though. Once you know how to play and get good you can speedrun through most of the game pretty quickly and easily(some people have gotten down to 35 min). This bug definitely sucks though. The 35 min run skips everything after O&S to go straight to Gywn, using a glitch lol. Not that I'm refuting your point that it's quite easy to skip a lot of stuff to get down to business, of course. I do it quite often myself nowadays. I pretty much ran through all of Duke's Archives and Crystal Caves on my most recent playthrough, stopping only for bonfires and boss. Archers are a bitch.
Lol, didn't know that glitch about that super fast run, it can still be pretty fast without that glitch though. The worst part about archers is the way their arrows will curve and home in on you. And that they tend to shoot you in the back a lot. So annoying.
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EPT
