EPTOn November 27 2012 07:21 FlamingForce wrote:
Could you point me to the source of this research
Could you point me to the source of this research
Active PvP forum here.
Dark Souls - Prepare to Die (PC) - Page 100
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Maxyim
430 Posts
Active PvP forum here. | ||
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Maxyim
430 Posts
On November 27 2012 06:30 solidbebe wrote: Imo playing with <25% equipment load with dark wood grain ring and using fast weapons ( katanas, balder sword) with high dex and alot of dodging ofcourse is very rewarding. Most people use very heavy armor and just tank their way through. Its still fun ofcourse because dark souls is an awesome game but its bland compared to dodging everything and using parries and backstabs. Thanks for the advice, that does sound fun. How much dex are we talking about? I'm already putting a lot into End as I want to get to cap ASAP. Just found some tips on how to get the DWGR early, cross-posting below for future reference (minor spoilers): + Show Spoiler + It is possible to get this ring quite early in the game, without buying the Crest of Artorias from Andre. After defeating the Hydra in Darkroot Basin, use the ladder near the waterfall to enter Darkroot Garden through the back way. Either going through the Great Felines or making a mad dash through the main forest and reloading by Alvina, you can join the Forest Hunter covenant and spawn Shiva and his bodyguard. Note that upon reloading to collect the ring, if you want to keep your souls and humanities, you will probably need to avoid Shiva (and the rest of the forest), using a Homeward Bone to return to your last bonfire. By getting the ring earlier in the game, you minimize the amount of souls need to absolve your sins if you plan on re-joining the Forest Hunter covenant. Source - http://darksouls.wikidot.com/dark-wood-grain-ring I don't know so much about weapons yet; saw a polearm thief guide on GameFAQs and intend to follow it for now. What weapons should I be looking for throughout the game (so I can plan stat points around them)? Also, how should I upgrade? Looks like everyone likes +15, but some people recommend elemental or chaos. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On November 23 2012 01:03 Lewfen wrote: If you have a good stability shield you can just walk to the right and kill that part and walk to the left while hugging the wall and shoot it with an arrow. After that you just have to bait the big arm swings and then jump in the hole. Whenever I try to greatshield that boss he just ends up pushing me into the pit anyway, his arms push me like 15 feet. I find that just dodging through his arms is the most reliable way to not get hit both ways. And then rolling onto the middle branch instead of jumping is also helps. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On November 27 2012 07:31 Maxyim wrote: Thanks for the advice, that does sound fun. How much dex are we talking about? I'm already putting a lot into End as I want to get to cap ASAP. Just found some tips on how to get the DWGR early, cross-posting below for future reference (minor spoilers): + Show Spoiler + It is possible to get this ring quite early in the game, without buying the Crest of Artorias from Andre. After defeating the Hydra in Darkroot Basin, use the ladder near the waterfall to enter Darkroot Garden through the back way. Either going through the Great Felines or making a mad dash through the main forest and reloading by Alvina, you can join the Forest Hunter covenant and spawn Shiva and his bodyguard. Note that upon reloading to collect the ring, if you want to keep your souls and humanities, you will probably need to avoid Shiva (and the rest of the forest), using a Homeward Bone to return to your last bonfire. By getting the ring earlier in the game, you minimize the amount of souls need to absolve your sins if you plan on re-joining the Forest Hunter covenant. Source - http://darksouls.wikidot.com/dark-wood-grain-ring I don't know so much about weapons yet; saw a polearm thief guide on GameFAQs and intend to follow it for now. What weapons should I be looking for throughout the game (so I can plan stat points around them)? Also, how should I upgrade? Looks like everyone likes +15, but some people recommend elemental or chaos. Elemental is quite strong but it doesnt scale with any stat, so mostly people who dump a ton into vitality/endurance will take elemental. Imo the katana weapons are the most fun to use, you can just google where they are if you want to get them. Balder side sword is awesome too. I made a slight mistake though, by far the MOST fun way to play this game, is by going into it completely blind and not looking anything up. The first playthrough of a souls game is by far the most exciting and not knowing anything about it makes it even better. If I were you I would stop reading anything on the internet and complete the game before you start going into this stuff. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On November 27 2012 07:31 Maxyim wrote: Thanks for the advice, that does sound fun. How much dex are we talking about? I'm already putting a lot into End as I want to get to cap ASAP. Just found some tips on how to get the DWGR early, cross-posting below for future reference (minor spoilers): + Show Spoiler + It is possible to get this ring quite early in the game, without buying the Crest of Artorias from Andre. After defeating the Hydra in Darkroot Basin, use the ladder near the waterfall to enter Darkroot Garden through the back way. Either going through the Great Felines or making a mad dash through the main forest and reloading by Alvina, you can join the Forest Hunter covenant and spawn Shiva and his bodyguard. Note that upon reloading to collect the ring, if you want to keep your souls and humanities, you will probably need to avoid Shiva (and the rest of the forest), using a Homeward Bone to return to your last bonfire. By getting the ring earlier in the game, you minimize the amount of souls need to absolve your sins if you plan on re-joining the Forest Hunter covenant. Source - http://darksouls.wikidot.com/dark-wood-grain-ring I don't know so much about weapons yet; saw a polearm thief guide on GameFAQs and intend to follow it for now. What weapons should I be looking for throughout the game (so I can plan stat points around them)? Also, how should I upgrade? Looks like everyone likes +15, but some people recommend elemental or chaos. 40-45 dex is probably enough for dex scaling weapons. Some go 50 but the last 5 points don't do nearly as much. Elemental weapons don't scale with stats, whereas +15 usually has better scaling, so elemental weapons are for when you don't plan on raising str or dex much at all and keeping them down near 16 str 14 dex to allow almost all weapons. In terms of dex weapons, Ricard's Rapier, the Bandit's Knife, the Gold and Silver Tracers, the Katanas, the Painting Guardian(and other curved) swords, the Great Scythe(or Lifehunt Scythe), and the Balder Side Sword (swag sword), all have good scaling and are popular. Priscilla's Dagger and Claws are really fun but not so popular. | ||
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FlamingForce
Netherlands701 Posts
On November 27 2012 07:56 Fyrewolf wrote: 40-45 dex is probably enough for dex scaling weapons. Some go 50 but the last 5 points don't do nearly as much. Elemental weapons don't scale with stats, whereas +15 usually has better scaling, so elemental weapons are for when you don't plan on raising str or dex much at all and keeping them down near 16 str 14 dex to allow almost all weapons. In terms of dex weapons, Ricard's Rapier, the Bandit's Knife, the Gold and Silver Tracers, the Katanas, the Painting Guardian(and other curved) swords, the Great Scythe(or Lifehunt Scythe), and the Balder Side Sword (swag sword), all have good scaling and are popular. Priscilla's Dagger and Claws are really fun but not so popular. The Estoc is also a very respectable choice and very easy to obtain, I would never advise going over 45 dex, if not for the fact that dex also boosts the speed at which certain spells are cast (A speed bonus that caps at 45 dex), most people probably wouldn't bother with more then 40. | ||
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Maxyim
430 Posts
On November 27 2012 23:00 FlamingForce wrote: The Estoc is also a very respectable choice and very easy to obtain, I would never advise going over 45 dex, if not for the fact that dex also boosts the speed at which certain spells are cast (A speed bonus that caps at 45 dex), most people probably wouldn't bother with more then 40. So I am currently using winged spear; I already have enough strength for halberd once I get it; what do you guys think about this kind of playstyle? Also, I do not understand the whole stat bonuses thing. For example, halberd stat bonuses are listed as D/C/-/-. What does that mean? Just how significant are stat bonuses in the first place? | ||
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FlamingForce
Netherlands701 Posts
On November 28 2012 02:45 Maxyim wrote: So I am currently using winged spear; I already have enough strength for halberd once I get it; what do you guys think about this kind of playstyle? Also, I do not understand the whole stat bonuses thing. For example, halberd stat bonuses are listed as D/C/-/-. What does that mean? Just how significant are stat bonuses in the first place? It means it gets a D in STR scaling and a C in DEX scaling, both stats will boost it's damage tho the DEX stat will be a better boost then the STR stat will be. Scaling goes like this S > A > B > C > D > E with S being the best and E the worst. I have no idea how much damage they add exactly, D and C aren't terrific bonuses but they're a nice little touch. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
I got to play this a bit over the weekend, heading into the Depths at the moment. The game is really fun. My coworker told me about the Drake Sword that you get from severing the bridge drake's tail, so I had a bow and arrows ready to go for that. Unfortunately as a Pyromancer I didn't have the necessary stats to effectively wield a bow, so I just figured it would take more arrows. I pumped about 500 arrows of varying quality into that tail and it didn't drop. I asked one of my friends who played through the game numerous times how much less damage I'm doing when I can't effectively wield the bow. His answer: "you do zero damage." After leveling up Dex a couple of times I was eventually able to properly wield it and got the sword after a couple dozen arrows. It owns, this game owns. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On November 28 2012 03:16 Excalibur_Z wrote: From what I've read, the scaling is exponentially better with each rank. So, going from D to C scaling is dramatically better than going from E to D. I got to play this a bit over the weekend, heading into the Depths at the moment. The game is really fun. My coworker told me about the Drake Sword that you get from severing the bridge drake's tail, so I had a bow and arrows ready to go for that. Unfortunately as a Pyromancer I didn't have the necessary stats to effectively wield a bow, so I just figured it would take more arrows. I pumped about 500 arrows of varying quality into that tail and it didn't drop. I asked one of my friends who played through the game numerous times how much less damage I'm doing when I can't effectively wield the bow. His answer: "you do zero damage." After leveling up Dex a couple of times I was eventually able to properly wield it and got the sword after a couple dozen arrows. It owns, this game owns. I'm glad you're enjoying the game! It's without a doubt my game of the year. I must say though, I wish you didn't get the drake sword on your first play through. It has a way of spoiling the first few stages of the game by making it somewhat trivial. The other thing which I'm sure you're well versed about is the drake sword drops off pretty quick. Don't get too attached and spend resources upgrading it. I recommend having your 'next' weapon ready. In fact by the depths you could probably have a +10ish katana which should out perform a drake sword by now. My timing of items may be off but nonetheless keep an eye out for your next monster slayer! Enjoy! | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
On November 28 2012 03:16 Excalibur_Z wrote: From what I've read, the scaling is exponentially better with each rank. So, going from D to C scaling is dramatically better than going from E to D. I got to play this a bit over the weekend, heading into the Depths at the moment. The game is really fun. My coworker told me about the Drake Sword that you get from severing the bridge drake's tail, so I had a bow and arrows ready to go for that. Unfortunately as a Pyromancer I didn't have the necessary stats to effectively wield a bow, so I just figured it would take more arrows. I pumped about 500 arrows of varying quality into that tail and it didn't drop. I asked one of my friends who played through the game numerous times how much less damage I'm doing when I can't effectively wield the bow. His answer: "you do zero damage." After leveling up Dex a couple of times I was eventually able to properly wield it and got the sword after a couple dozen arrows. It owns, this game owns. This game does indeed own. Just don't get too used to using that Drake Sword. It will ruin you later for when you need to find real scaling weapons. But if you're going for a Pyro build, the weapon you use doesn't matter all that much as you are probably pumping all your souls into upgrading the Pyro glove. Just remember that Vit and End are great and a couple miracles (Heal primarily) go a long way. | ||
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FlamingForce
Netherlands701 Posts
On November 28 2012 03:16 Excalibur_Z wrote: From what I've read, the scaling is exponentially better with each rank. So, going from D to C scaling is dramatically better than going from E to D. I got to play this a bit over the weekend, heading into the Depths at the moment. The game is really fun. My coworker told me about the Drake Sword that you get from severing the bridge drake's tail, so I had a bow and arrows ready to go for that. Unfortunately as a Pyromancer I didn't have the necessary stats to effectively wield a bow, so I just figured it would take more arrows. I pumped about 500 arrows of varying quality into that tail and it didn't drop. I asked one of my friends who played through the game numerous times how much less damage I'm doing when I can't effectively wield the bow. His answer: "you do zero damage." After leveling up Dex a couple of times I was eventually able to properly wield it and got the sword after a couple dozen arrows. It owns, this game owns. Or you could just take your hand axe, apply some gold resin, wait for the dragon to come down and run to his right side and start swinging It takes some luck tho, the dragon can fuck you over if he doesn't do the right moves at that time  Drake Sword will only be effective for so long tho. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On November 28 2012 02:54 FlamingForce wrote: It means it gets a D in STR scaling and a C in DEX scaling, both stats will boost it's damage tho the DEX stat will be a better boost then the STR stat will be. Scaling goes like this S > A > B > C > D > E with S being the best and E the worst. I have no idea how much damage they add exactly, D and C aren't terrific bonuses but they're a nice little touch. Yeah as I mentioned at the top of the last page each rank is significantly better than the last, it may be exponential like excalibur says. C scaling or less is pretty crap. B is only ok. A scaling is great scaling(skips over just being good). S scaling is insanely awesomely excellent scaling. If you are going for damage with scaling on your weapon over just coolness and preference, then you have to go A or better, B just won't cut it. It's more fun to use a weapon for coolness than raw damage though, it still works well enough if you are good. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On November 28 2012 03:30 crms wrote: I'm glad you're enjoying the game! It's without a doubt my game of the year. I must say though, I wish you didn't get the drake sword on your first play through. It has a way of spoiling the first few stages of the game by making it somewhat trivial. The other thing which I'm sure you're well versed about is the drake sword drops off pretty quick. Don't get too attached and spend resources upgrading it. I recommend having your 'next' weapon ready. In fact by the depths you could probably have a +10ish katana which should out perform a drake sword by now. My timing of items may be off but nonetheless keep an eye out for your next monster slayer! Enjoy! Yeah right now the Drake Sword is really good but it doesn't have any scaling, just a lot of upfront damage. Because each upgrade appears to increase damage by +10%, I would need a 133-damage weapon upgraded to +5 to surpass the Drake Sword, something that I don't have yet. I did get the Gargoyle Tail Axe and Gargoyle Halberd (as well as a Black Knight Shield and Gargoyle Shield) but neither of those are as good as the Drake Sword, even upgraded. I picked up all the available Pyromancy skills and am currently rotating Fireball, Fire Orb, and Combustion which seem to perform pretty well. I also picked up a set of chainmail from the undead vendor in Undead Burg but I'm noticeably slower, even at below 50% equip load (using Havel's Ring as well). This makes rolling really clumsy and sluggish. Chainmail isn't even a particularly heavy armor but it seems like I should make a choice between being nimble and being tanky, because my current loadout seems to give me the worst of both worlds. | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
On November 28 2012 05:57 Excalibur_Z wrote: Yeah right now the Drake Sword is really good but it doesn't have any scaling, just a lot of upfront damage. Because each upgrade appears to increase damage by +10%, I would need a 133-damage weapon upgraded to +5 to surpass the Drake Sword, something that I don't have yet. I did get the Gargoyle Tail Axe and Gargoyle Halberd (as well as a Black Knight Shield and Gargoyle Shield) but neither of those are as good as the Drake Sword, even upgraded. I picked up all the available Pyromancy skills and am currently rotating Fireball, Fire Orb, and Combustion which seem to perform pretty well. I also picked up a set of chainmail from the undead vendor in Undead Burg but I'm noticeably slower, even at below 50% equip load (using Havel's Ring as well). This makes rolling really clumsy and sluggish. Chainmail isn't even a particularly heavy armor but it seems like I should make a choice between being nimble and being tanky, because my current loadout seems to give me the worst of both worlds. That really is the biggest choice in a build in Dark Souls. Are you going to focus on being the tank guy who can wear Havel's and carry the huge Shields, etc or do you want to roll around as fast as possible. It eventually comes down to how much you want to invest on Endurance to increase that Stamina vs Str,Dex,Int, etc. to get actual damage (though with Pyromancy none of those stats really matter too much haha). I will try not to let my personal bias show here, as both methods are perfectly viable when playing PvE, but if you want to get into the PvP aspect of the game you will NEED to learn how to roll from everything and everyone so you might as well start learning now. But tank builds work perfectly fine for the first few NG+ (I haven't gone any farther than NG+3) and it can be pretty fun to stand there and block while the boss pummels you and then swing back for massive damage. I just prefer the rolling style, personally. I didn't do a very good job of hiding that did I? | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On November 28 2012 05:57 Excalibur_Z wrote: Yeah right now the Drake Sword is really good but it doesn't have any scaling, just a lot of upfront damage. Because each upgrade appears to increase damage by +10%, I would need a 133-damage weapon upgraded to +5 to surpass the Drake Sword, something that I don't have yet. I did get the Gargoyle Tail Axe and Gargoyle Halberd (as well as a Black Knight Shield and Gargoyle Shield) but neither of those are as good as the Drake Sword, even upgraded. I picked up all the available Pyromancy skills and am currently rotating Fireball, Fire Orb, and Combustion which seem to perform pretty well. I also picked up a set of chainmail from the undead vendor in Undead Burg but I'm noticeably slower, even at below 50% equip load (using Havel's Ring as well). This makes rolling really clumsy and sluggish. Chainmail isn't even a particularly heavy armor but it seems like I should make a choice between being nimble and being tanky, because my current loadout seems to give me the worst of both worlds. Your previous armor was probably under 25% equip load if it was faster running then, though the medium roll isn't really so bad, under 50% gives a nice balance of defense and mobility and actually lets you have some poise. If you are going light armors than the dark wood grain ring is extremely useful for better dodging to make up for the lack of poise and defense. Over 50% only works pve, but the difference between 25% and 50% in pvp is mostly having dwgr for longer and faster dodge vs having poise to not get stunlocked by a single hit and just be dead, wolf ring alongside dwgr is almost necessary for light armors. Also if you pump your End a bit more there is technically a slightly faster medium roll between 25% and 37.5% then from 37.5% to 50%(several faster light rolls too, but you have to get stupidly low weight for them). You should really pump up your endurance and vitality early in your first playthrough to make it easier, then with new characters when you are better at the game you can skimp on defense. Almost everyone has 40 endurance by endgame(maxes stamina at 160, 80 equip load), unless they are doing specific low-level builds. It won't take too long before you can upgrade past +5 either, you're about to get it in the depths. + Show Spoiler + The large ember is fairly early by the first butcher. | ||
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Maxyim
430 Posts
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On November 28 2012 07:13 Maxyim wrote: So what is the deal with armor? I am also currently using the chainmail from Undead Burg vendor; where can I get something lighter? I think the chain armor is actually the heaviest of the "light" armors(under 20 weight), though it kinda sucks. Most armors in the game are found instead of bought. Many of the light armors are found + Show Spoiler + in blighttown(shadow, crimson, pyromancer, wanderer), in darkroot(hunter, knight, antiquated), in lower undead burg(sorcerer, thief), also one in the depths(warrior), there are a couple others though. Elite Knight set in darkroot is good except for helm, merchant in Sen's Fortress sells Steel, Balder, and Catarina sets also For heavy sets Black Iron, Havels and Giant's in anor londo are really great, even with just pieces of them, Stone set in darkroot is good early. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On November 28 2012 07:13 Maxyim wrote: So what is the deal with armor? I am also currently using the chainmail from Undead Burg vendor; where can I get something lighter? I will pinpoint you to the source of all DS knowledge. Warning, this guy's content is highly addictive, don't watch anything else if you don't want to get spoiled, but the armor locations is meaningless enough. When you want to watch, if you're interested, I'd recommend the Lore series, it's amazing | ||
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Maxyim
430 Posts
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