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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On September 25 2012 16:02 thuracine wrote: Tate had two hand on the ball just watch the gif posted jenning tries to yank the ball away but couldn't. this isn't a sideline catch. two hands on the ball != control of the ball. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Especially the quote regarding the financial impact to each team. I mean, if this were to happen right before a player agreement season, I could understand them just posturing, but this... makes no sense. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On September 25 2012 15:56 andrewlt wrote: http://deadspin.com/5946112/the-lingerie-football-league-announces-that-it-fired-a-couple-crews-which-apparently-are-now-officiating-in-the-nfl-because-of-incompetence HAHAHAHAHA Wow lol. That's rough. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/ten_fiver/20120924_221621.jpg) | ||
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Corrik
United States1416 Posts
But, as another poster mentioned, everything is being blamed on the replacement refs regardless. Two main gripes have been supposedly lineman holding players on every play and defenders mauling receivers left and right. However, the calls from the refs in the first 2 weeks were almost exactly on pace of the regular refs and only holding and pass interference calls were higher than from previous years. They are getting away with too much, but it is being called more? If this is true then players are simply committing penalties at an obscene rate due to no respect for the officials, and it would be impossible for them to officiate it without calling them every play. They are in a no win situation. It's bad enough 9/10ths of fans blame refs for a loss no matter what... now you have replacement refs with targets on their backs... They never had a chance. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Akamu
United States309 Posts
On September 25 2012 15:21 Supamang wrote: Amen to this. Packers shouldn't have been ahead in the first place. Bad calls were made on both sides, but people will always think that Packers should have won except for the refs because of this very final play. And also, the missed PI Tate committed at the end was pretty damn bad, but that touchdown pass was much more contested than people are making it out to be. Tate had 2 arms on the ball and 1 of those arms was between the ball and Jennings's chest. It was contested and the tie should go to the passing team. That being said, we still need the real refs... That comment right there makes me want to punch a baby. It's so blatantly wrong. I'm assuming here that you are referencing the "bogus" PI call that the packers benefited from on their TD drive? That call was very close with what looked like the defensive player hitting slightly before the ball got there. If it wasn't the replacement refs out there that call wouldn't even be remembered. But if you wanna play that game i can play the same game. Technically by your reasoning the Seahawks shouldnt have scored at all. They got a personal foul on their only touchdown drive the play before the touchdown pass. Smith was hit late after the play was over and retaliated with a quick jab at the lineman that hit him. Yes the second one is normally called but that doesn't make the first one okay. Shoulda been a replay of the down. Then maybe the Seahawks offense does what they did the rest of the game... as in generate no points. By your methodology the final score is 12-0 and everyone is creaming their pants about how good the packers and seahawks defenses were. You see how that worked? You can nit pick any little play and claim holding or PI or whatever you want. That's part of the physicality of the game. The refs call the blatant ones and life goes on. And that's why this last play is such an issue. Because IT WAS THE LAST PLAY . This decided the game. A close well fought defensive game was decided by this one play and the replacement refs. And they got it wrong. Cut and dry. You can argue that Tate had hands on the ball and simultaneous and all that but deep down everyone knows that that's a stretch at best. We've all seen it. The hands come off the ball. Jennings has his whole body between him and Tate at one point while hugging the ball. There is little room for debate there. But even then if you wanna debate that, fine. However you can NOT under any circumstances argue that Tate didn't BLATANTLY push Shields (who was standing literally 6in front of him) out of his way 1 sec before jumping up. He did and that DIRECTLY lead to him being in the position to "catch" the ball in the first place. The refs fucked up. Finally score 12-7. I hope against hope the NFL has the balls to change the final score to what it actually was but that would open up a whole universe of problems for them in the future. But it would at least be the correct decision... which is what ultimately matters. The refs are there, the replay is there to make sure it's the right call and that it's fair. This wasn't. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On September 25 2012 16:55 Irave wrote: Golden Tate is a hero to the fans. His work the past couple of weeks is encouraging the regular refs to come back. Now you all want to take away his touchdown He just did his finest work in that area | ||
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rod-
Norway379 Posts
I understand that these refs are not used to the pace or the skillset of the players, but what I don't understand is how they get worse every week. Only thing I can think of is that the players are now starting to take advatange of the circumstances and play dirty.. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [image] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4RCZ3.png) | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On September 25 2012 17:06 rod- wrote: Everything was wrong about that call, and the rest of the game was bad aswell. I understand that these refs are not used to the pace or the skillset of the players, but what I don't understand is how they get worse every week. Only thing I can think of is that the players are now starting to take advatange of the circumstances and play dirty.. they are nervous and under a LOT of pressure... these aren't top flight college refs stepping in... some of these guys ref middle school football where they might get 40 parents in the crowd and a missed call isn't a big deal. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
How are the players supposed to go out there next weekend and give it their all? Why should a receiver worry about getting open? Just shove the defender in the back, easy peasy. Wow wow wow. It gets uglier and uglier. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On September 25 2012 17:15 Leporello wrote: Golden Tate put two hands squarely on Jenning's back, pushes him. How in the hell does a ref review that play, and not call that out. Never mind the somewhat-objective view of whether Tate had possession -- he completely fouled Jennings anyways. No catch. You don't shove defenders in the back. Ever. Ever. Ever. How in the hell? This goes beyond amateurism. It's straight-up retardation. Or perhaps its corruption. How are the players supposed to go out there next weekend and give it their all? Why should a receiver worry about getting open? Just shove the defender in the back, easy peasy. Wow wow wow. It gets uglier and uglier. Can't make new penalties on a review. It's annoying, but it has to be that way because, realistically, you could scrutinize every play and find a penalty. I'm curious to see if there is going to be a statement claiming that because it was ruled a touchdown on the field that they couldn't rule it for a change of possession... if that's the case, I fail to see how an incomplete pass isn't ruled instead then. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
On September 25 2012 17:15 Leporello wrote: Golden Tate put two hands squarely on Jenning's back, pushes him. How in the hell does a ref review that play, and not call that out. Never mind the somewhat-objective view of whether Tate had possession -- he completely fouled Jennings anyways. No catch. You don't shove defenders in the back. Ever. Ever. Ever. How in the hell? This goes beyond amateurism. It's straight-up retardation. Or perhaps its corruption. How are the players supposed to go out there next weekend and give it their all? Why should a receiver worry about getting open? Just shove the defender in the back, easy peasy. Wow wow wow. It gets uglier and uglier. He pushed off Shields. The play on the field that was reviewed was did Tate catch the ball or did he not catch the ball. Everything else, the push off, the possible interception where not calls that could have been made. The official reviewer, who is not a replacement, deemed that he caught the ball. Thus giving Tate the touchdown. People are forgetting one single solitary detail that the announcers said once. Determining which player received the catch is not a reviewable call, it is 100% the judgement call of the officials on the field. If there is any doubt as to who controls the ball, it is considered a simultaneous possession, which defaults to the offense. Everyone who is posting pictures establishing which man had more of the ball or not is missing the point. The regular refs, would have been in a position to make the wrong call. It's a tough play, the replacement refs just placed it into the hands of the reviewer to make the judgement call on the play. Even if the play would have been the opposite, ok replacement refs say INT. Fans, players would still erupt about the call, because everyone is passed the boiling point with these refs. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On September 25 2012 17:23 Irave wrote: He pushed off Shields. The play on the field that was reviewed was did Tate catch the ball or did he not catch the ball. Everything else, the push off, the possible interception where not calls that could have been made. The official reviewer, who is not a replacement, deemed that he caught the ball. Thus giving Tate the touchdown. People are forgetting one single solitary detail that the announcers said once. Determining which player received the catch is not a reviewable call, it is 100% the judgement call of the officials on the field. If there is any doubt as to who controls the ball, it is considered a simultaneous possession, which defaults to the offense. Everyone who is posting pictures establishing which man had more of the ball or not is missing the point. That's where I think they messed up. Understanding they can't give Green Bay the ball but still ruling it a touchdown isn't the only outcome. You can't just default the ball to Tate because it can't change possession. Jennings had the ball, so then rule it an incomplete pass. | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On September 25 2012 16:57 Akamu wrote: That comment right there makes me want to punch a baby. It's so blatantly wrong. I'm assuming here that you are referencing the "bogus" PI call that the packers benefited from on their TD drive? That call was very close with what looked like the defensive player hitting slightly before the ball got there. If it wasn't the replacement refs out there that call wouldn't even be remembered. But if you wanna play that game i can play the same game. Technically by your reasoning the Seahawks shouldnt have scored at all. They got a personal foul on their only touchdown drive the play before the touchdown pass. Smith was hit late after the play was over and retaliated with a quick jab at the lineman that hit him. Yes the second one is normally called but that doesn't make the first one okay. Shoulda been a replay of the down. Then maybe the Seahawks offense does what they did the rest of the game... as in generate no points. By your methodology the final score is 12-0 and everyone is creaming their pants about how good the packers and seahawks defenses were. You see how that worked? You can nit pick any little play and claim holding or PI or whatever you want. That's part of the physicality of the game. The refs call the blatant ones and life goes on. And that's why this last play is such an issue. Because IT WAS THE LAST PLAY . This decided the game. A close well fought defensive game was decided by this one play and the replacement refs. And they got it wrong. Cut and dry. You can argue that Tate had hands on the ball and simultaneous and all that but deep down everyone knows that that's a stretch at best. We've all seen it. The hands come off the ball. Jennings has his whole body between him and Tate at one point while hugging the ball. There is little room for debate there. But even then if you wanna debate that, fine. However you can NOT under any circumstances argue that Tate didn't BLATANTLY push Shields (who was standing literally 6in front of him) out of his way 1 sec before jumping up. He did and that DIRECTLY lead to him being in the position to "catch" the ball in the first place. The refs fucked up. Finally score 12-7. I hope against hope the NFL has the balls to change the final score to what it actually was but that would open up a whole universe of problems for them in the future. But it would at least be the correct decision... which is what ultimately matters. The refs are there, the replay is there to make sure it's the right call and that it's fair. This wasn't. What the hell? You're actually arguing that Kam Chancellor's 3rd down stop was PI? I gave up my bias when I watched the ending interception made by Jennings several times. As close as the call was, the replays show that even though Tate had an arm between the ball and chest of Jennings and another arm on the other side of the ball, Jennings had possession. It's a close call, but I agree that even though Tate had 2 hands on the ball Jennings had possession. Go check that hit again that Chancellor makes. Its a good, clean stop and you know it. Oh and if it wasn't for the replacement refs botching the last call? This call definitely would have been remembered. It's what allowed the Packers to continue their drive that lead to the touchdown that gave them their only lead. This call would have been more remembered than any of the other calls. I love all that condescension riddled in your post there. You whine at me about the Tate PI in the end zone when I even mentioned it in the short post you quoted. You pick out the one sentence and whine about how I pick out that one Chancellor PI call, but completely ignore the next sentence outlining my real point. Go punch your babies dude. Sure, yea we can go all the way back with all those calls you go on and on about in your post. Then we get a 0-0 game and people will realize that this was a hard fought game on both sides, there were terrible calls on both sides, and that it wasn't this 1 controversial call that made an impact on the game. Seahawks are being made to look like the bad guys and the losers here and it frustrates me to see that when we get so little respect to begin with. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On September 25 2012 17:29 Supamang wrote: Seahawks are being made to look like the bad guys and the losers here and it frustrates me to see that when we get so little respect to begin with. They're being made to look like the losers (rightfully so, seriously), but not bad guys. The NFL and the referees are the bad guys. You don't have to be defensive. The Refs are what are under attack. Granted, Tate and Wilson didn't help themselves with how they answered questions... But there is no need to defend your beloved Hawks. Accepting that the refs had bad plays throughout the game and ultimately blew the last and most important call of the game isn't condemnation or insulting to Seattle; it is merely an assertion of facts. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Seahawk fans are coming across as sleezy and dishonorable. They should be a little ashamed. No one is trying to take away your win because you didn't win. Everyone lost. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On September 25 2012 17:35 I_Love_Bacon wrote: They're being made to look like the losers (rightfully so, seriously), but not bad guys. The NFL and the referees are the bad guys. You don't have to be defensive. The Refs are what are under attack. Granted, Tate and Wilson didn't help themselves with how they answered questions... But there is no need to defend your beloved Hawks. Accepting that the refs had bad plays throughout the game and ultimately blew the last and most important call of the game isn't condemnation or insulting to Seattle; it is merely an assertion of facts. Fair enough, maybe I'm taking the coverage about this game the wrong way. About the way Tate and Wilson responded though, as a fan I can admit that the Seahawks lost the game. But I can't remember the last time I saw a professional athlete or coach admit that they should have lost a game they were given a win to. | ||
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