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On January 03 2013 13:30 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 13:09 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 10:57 Wolfswood wrote:"not a dynamic thrower" + Show Spoiler +??? I don't mean to sound like a homer, but ask anyone who's actually watched the Seahawks all year. This guy is special. Can't believe it about Ray...fuck I've been watching that guy play my whole life, he's the reason I played linebacker in high school. This makes the Ravens absolutely must-watch for me this postseason. oh and Indy now has no chance on Sunday lol As a complete homer (without having ever actually been to Indy), this game will be a very tight one and when it comes down to the wire I believe Luck is a better bet than Flacco despite being a rookie - I think we will see a reprisal of so many of Indys games this year, pulling out a tight win in the dying minutes (and then we will be blown out of the water by Manning or Brady next). History shows that if you trust rookies in the postseason who aren't the second coming of God, you'll be let-down, but it's ok because it helps them develop faster to make it to the postseason to begin with. Rookies generally fall to pieces when they're required to not make "rookie mistakes" over the course of an entire game.
Yeah, there's a reason no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl: a good reason. And a rookie will not win the Super Bowl this year either, for exactly the reason you just said.
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On January 03 2013 13:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 13:30 Zdrastochye wrote:On January 03 2013 13:09 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 10:57 Wolfswood wrote:"not a dynamic thrower" + Show Spoiler +??? I don't mean to sound like a homer, but ask anyone who's actually watched the Seahawks all year. This guy is special. Can't believe it about Ray...fuck I've been watching that guy play my whole life, he's the reason I played linebacker in high school. This makes the Ravens absolutely must-watch for me this postseason. oh and Indy now has no chance on Sunday lol As a complete homer (without having ever actually been to Indy), this game will be a very tight one and when it comes down to the wire I believe Luck is a better bet than Flacco despite being a rookie - I think we will see a reprisal of so many of Indys games this year, pulling out a tight win in the dying minutes (and then we will be blown out of the water by Manning or Brady next). History shows that if you trust rookies in the postseason who aren't the second coming of God, you'll be let-down, but it's ok because it helps them develop faster to make it to the postseason to begin with. Rookies generally fall to pieces when they're required to not make "rookie mistakes" over the course of an entire game. Yeah, there's a reason no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl: a good reason. And a rookie will not win the Super Bowl this year either, for exactly the reason you just said.
Finally I've said something in this thread that you don't outright disagree with. I feel like I deserve a medal.
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Oops, nevermind. Brady was a second-year QB when he won the Super Bowl.
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United States97276 Posts
On January 03 2013 13:52 xDaunt wrote:
Have you guys ever heard of Tom Brady?
He's that guy that's with Gisele, right?
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On January 03 2013 13:52 xDaunt wrote:
Oops, nevermind. Brady was a second-year QB when he won the Super Bowl.
Nice try sneaking that past the biggest NE homer around. 
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On January 03 2013 13:57 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 13:52 xDaunt wrote:
Oops, nevermind. Brady was a second-year QB when he won the Super Bowl. Nice try sneaking that past the biggest NE homer around.
Being a smartass never pays off =p
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On January 03 2013 13:57 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 13:52 xDaunt wrote:
Oops, nevermind. Brady was a second-year QB when he won the Super Bowl. Nice try sneaking that past the biggest NE homer around.
I haven't seen DKnight around in a while...
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On January 03 2013 13:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 13:30 Zdrastochye wrote:On January 03 2013 13:09 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 10:57 Wolfswood wrote:"not a dynamic thrower" + Show Spoiler +??? I don't mean to sound like a homer, but ask anyone who's actually watched the Seahawks all year. This guy is special. Can't believe it about Ray...fuck I've been watching that guy play my whole life, he's the reason I played linebacker in high school. This makes the Ravens absolutely must-watch for me this postseason. oh and Indy now has no chance on Sunday lol As a complete homer (without having ever actually been to Indy), this game will be a very tight one and when it comes down to the wire I believe Luck is a better bet than Flacco despite being a rookie - I think we will see a reprisal of so many of Indys games this year, pulling out a tight win in the dying minutes (and then we will be blown out of the water by Manning or Brady next). History shows that if you trust rookies in the postseason who aren't the second coming of God, you'll be let-down, but it's ok because it helps them develop faster to make it to the postseason to begin with. Rookies generally fall to pieces when they're required to not make "rookie mistakes" over the course of an entire game. Yeah, there's a reason no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl: a good reason. And a rookie will not win the Super Bowl this year either, for exactly the reason you just said.
I would argue that the common trait rookie QBs -teams usually have (i.e. the team sucked hard the previous season) is more important (not that this argument in any way helps my Colts) to them not winning the SB. But how silly of me - of course it is all on the QB.
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On January 03 2013 15:28 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 13:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On January 03 2013 13:30 Zdrastochye wrote:On January 03 2013 13:09 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 10:57 Wolfswood wrote:"not a dynamic thrower" + Show Spoiler +??? I don't mean to sound like a homer, but ask anyone who's actually watched the Seahawks all year. This guy is special. Can't believe it about Ray...fuck I've been watching that guy play my whole life, he's the reason I played linebacker in high school. This makes the Ravens absolutely must-watch for me this postseason. oh and Indy now has no chance on Sunday lol As a complete homer (without having ever actually been to Indy), this game will be a very tight one and when it comes down to the wire I believe Luck is a better bet than Flacco despite being a rookie - I think we will see a reprisal of so many of Indys games this year, pulling out a tight win in the dying minutes (and then we will be blown out of the water by Manning or Brady next). History shows that if you trust rookies in the postseason who aren't the second coming of God, you'll be let-down, but it's ok because it helps them develop faster to make it to the postseason to begin with. Rookies generally fall to pieces when they're required to not make "rookie mistakes" over the course of an entire game. Yeah, there's a reason no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl: a good reason. And a rookie will not win the Super Bowl this year either, for exactly the reason you just said. I would argue that the common trait rookie QBs -teams usually have (i.e. the team sucked hard the previous season) is more important (not that this argument in any way helps my Colts) to them not winning the SB. But how silly of me - of course it is all on the QB.
That's not always the case. There are plenty of teams in the past that drafted rookie QB's in the mid to late parts of round 1 or later, and have made the playoffs. It's only recently that QB's have had such a premium placed on them in the draft. Just off the top of my head, Big Ben, Dan Marino, and Jay Cutler come to mind. Marino was taken at 17 (I think), Ben was taken at 11, and Jay was taken at 11 as well by the Broncos (who were in the AFC Championship the year before).
Aside from that, we aren't talking about rookie QB's that don't make the playoffs. We're talking about the guys that have made it there. This really is just a case of you not knowing what the hell you're talking about. For instance, Ben, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Sanchez all blew the games for their teams. It was precisely their inability to get the ball down field, and avoid mistakes that lost their teams the games. Sanchez, Ryan, and Flacco continue to ruin their own teams in the playoffs.
Add the three this year to the list, and here's a story about it.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8257c088/article/odds-stacked-against-rookie-quarterbacks-in-playoffs
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On January 03 2013 15:57 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 15:28 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 13:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On January 03 2013 13:30 Zdrastochye wrote:On January 03 2013 13:09 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 10:57 Wolfswood wrote:"not a dynamic thrower" + Show Spoiler +??? I don't mean to sound like a homer, but ask anyone who's actually watched the Seahawks all year. This guy is special. Can't believe it about Ray...fuck I've been watching that guy play my whole life, he's the reason I played linebacker in high school. This makes the Ravens absolutely must-watch for me this postseason. oh and Indy now has no chance on Sunday lol As a complete homer (without having ever actually been to Indy), this game will be a very tight one and when it comes down to the wire I believe Luck is a better bet than Flacco despite being a rookie - I think we will see a reprisal of so many of Indys games this year, pulling out a tight win in the dying minutes (and then we will be blown out of the water by Manning or Brady next). History shows that if you trust rookies in the postseason who aren't the second coming of God, you'll be let-down, but it's ok because it helps them develop faster to make it to the postseason to begin with. Rookies generally fall to pieces when they're required to not make "rookie mistakes" over the course of an entire game. Yeah, there's a reason no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl: a good reason. And a rookie will not win the Super Bowl this year either, for exactly the reason you just said. I would argue that the common trait rookie QBs -teams usually have (i.e. the team sucked hard the previous season) is more important (not that this argument in any way helps my Colts) to them not winning the SB. But how silly of me - of course it is all on the QB. That's not always the case. There are plenty of teams in the past that drafted rookie QB's in the mid to late parts of round 1 or later, and have made the playoffs. It's only recently that QB's have had such a premium placed on them in the draft. Just off the top of my head, Big Ben, Dan Marino, and Jay Cutler come to mind. Marino was taken at 17 (I think), Ben was taken at 11, and Jay was taken at 11 as well by the Broncos (who were in the AFC Championship the year before). Aside from that, we aren't talking about rookie QB's that don't make the playoffs. We're talking about the guys that have made it there. This really is just a case of you not knowing what the hell you're talking about. For instance, Ben, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Sanchez all blew the games for their teams. It was precisely their inability to get the ball down field, and avoid mistakes that lost their teams the games. Sanchez, Ryan, and Flacco continue to ruin their own teams in the playoffs. Add the three this year to the list, and here's a story about it. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8257c088/article/odds-stacked-against-rookie-quarterbacks-in-playoffs
I do not appreciate your tone. If you can't do this without instantly assuming people who slightly disagree with you do not know what the hell they are talking about, and attack their person, this will be my last response to you.
It is funny how all this started with my initial statement that I would rather have Luck, despite him being a rookie than Flacco in a tight match - just before a rookie was the worst thing in the world, now Flacco is and the fact that he even as a "veteran" blows games for his team supports your argument how? Sanchez was, just like Flacco, carried by the rest of the team - neither can be said by any sane person to really have at any point in their careers showed the same talent that Luck or RGIII has during this season.
Furthermore I would like to point out that in your post, you at no point specified that we were only talking rookie QBs who made it to the postseason and in that light I will stand by my statement of the rookie QB-teams generally sucking and that this is a more important factor than the rookie QB falling apart in the playoffs as a lot of the rookie QBs never get there.
And why do you think QBs recently have had such a premium placed on them? Because the quality of other players in the draft has gone down? Or could it possibly be because the QBs are quite the standouts and QBs today are more developed than ever before when leaving college? What other year has there been 3 QBs to the playoffs?
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! 
But pretty much expected... I'm sure I'll see people still wearing #52 jerseys for years and years to come around here.
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On January 03 2013 16:54 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 15:57 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On January 03 2013 15:28 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 13:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On January 03 2013 13:30 Zdrastochye wrote:On January 03 2013 13:09 Ghostcom wrote:On January 03 2013 10:57 Wolfswood wrote:"not a dynamic thrower" + Show Spoiler +??? I don't mean to sound like a homer, but ask anyone who's actually watched the Seahawks all year. This guy is special. Can't believe it about Ray...fuck I've been watching that guy play my whole life, he's the reason I played linebacker in high school. This makes the Ravens absolutely must-watch for me this postseason. oh and Indy now has no chance on Sunday lol As a complete homer (without having ever actually been to Indy), this game will be a very tight one and when it comes down to the wire I believe Luck is a better bet than Flacco despite being a rookie - I think we will see a reprisal of so many of Indys games this year, pulling out a tight win in the dying minutes (and then we will be blown out of the water by Manning or Brady next). History shows that if you trust rookies in the postseason who aren't the second coming of God, you'll be let-down, but it's ok because it helps them develop faster to make it to the postseason to begin with. Rookies generally fall to pieces when they're required to not make "rookie mistakes" over the course of an entire game. Yeah, there's a reason no rookie QB has ever won the Super Bowl: a good reason. And a rookie will not win the Super Bowl this year either, for exactly the reason you just said. I would argue that the common trait rookie QBs -teams usually have (i.e. the team sucked hard the previous season) is more important (not that this argument in any way helps my Colts) to them not winning the SB. But how silly of me - of course it is all on the QB. That's not always the case. There are plenty of teams in the past that drafted rookie QB's in the mid to late parts of round 1 or later, and have made the playoffs. It's only recently that QB's have had such a premium placed on them in the draft. Just off the top of my head, Big Ben, Dan Marino, and Jay Cutler come to mind. Marino was taken at 17 (I think), Ben was taken at 11, and Jay was taken at 11 as well by the Broncos (who were in the AFC Championship the year before). Aside from that, we aren't talking about rookie QB's that don't make the playoffs. We're talking about the guys that have made it there. This really is just a case of you not knowing what the hell you're talking about. For instance, Ben, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Sanchez all blew the games for their teams. It was precisely their inability to get the ball down field, and avoid mistakes that lost their teams the games. Sanchez, Ryan, and Flacco continue to ruin their own teams in the playoffs. Add the three this year to the list, and here's a story about it. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8257c088/article/odds-stacked-against-rookie-quarterbacks-in-playoffs I do not appreciate your tone. If you can't do this without instantly assuming people who slightly disagree with you do not know what the hell they are talking about, and attack their person, this will be my last response to you. It is funny how all this started with my initial statement that I would rather have Luck, despite him being a rookie than Flacco in a tight match - just before a rookie was the worst thing in the world, now Flacco is and the fact that he even as a "veteran" blows games for his team supports your argument how? Sanchez was, just like Flacco, carried by the rest of the team - neither can be said by any sane person to really have at any point in their careers showed the same talent that Luck or RGIII has during this season. Furthermore I would like to point out that in your post, you at no point specified that we were only talking rookie QBs who made it to the postseason and in that light I will stand by my statement of the rookie QB-teams generally sucking and that this is a more important factor than the rookie QB falling apart in the playoffs as a lot of the rookie QBs never get there. And why do you think QBs recently have had such a premium placed on them? Because the quality of other players in the draft has gone down? Or could it possibly be because the QBs are quite the standouts and QBs today are more developed than ever before when leaving college? What other year has there been 3 QBs to the playoffs?
And I didn't appreciate yours.
It's too multifactoral to place it on a single thing. Yes, QB's of today certainly seem more well groomed to enter the NFL than in years past, but this year is quite an anomaly since, say, 2003 (since that's where this list I found starts). First round picks only, with this year excepted for Wilson.
2003
Carson Palmer
Byron Leftwich
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman
2004
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
B. Roethlisberger
J.P. Losman
2005
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
2006
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
2007
Jamarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
2008
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
2009
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
2010
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
2011
Cam Newton
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Andy Dalton (2nd round, exception made since he was good from the jump)
2012
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin III
Ryan Tannehill
Brandon Weeden
Russel Wilson (3rd round, exception made for obvious reasons)
Since 2003, the guys in bold have been really prepared to play. Matt Leinart is bolded because he LOOKED ready to play in his first year, and got worse after Dennis Green was fired. Flacco is italicized because people like to hype him up, and he made the playoffs as a rookie... I thought (still do) that he sucked, though. So, I think your proposal that rookies are more prepared to play than ever is probably wrong, but there are certainly cases to be made amongst the groups, so not entirely incorrect. Many of these guys showed typical rookie mistakes in year one, then had fantastic second seasons, or third, etc... basically the way things have always gone for QB's.
The premium is being placed on the QB's, imo, mostly because of the way the offensive game has evolved in pro football. The NFL has adopted an up-tempo, air game, similar to the way spread offenses work in college (I have heard that Bellicheck spoke with Chip Kelly about the concept of tempo with offense a few years ago... not surprisingly, the Patriots run one of the fastest offenses in the league, mostly in four wide sets). In addition, the rule changes have made the passing game easier and easier over the years, while doing little to impact the running game. In order to take advantage of the rule changes, teams have placed a premium on QB's. They've also made extreme reaches (see: Locker @ 8, Gabbert @ 9, Ponder @ 11 or 12 in 2011) to try to find their signal caller.
To the bold and italicized: I figured that would be obvious. You have to make the playoffs to make the Super Bowl, and many rookies have made the playoffs in the past; ergo, we were discussing rookies that actually had actually played in the playoffs. I probably could have been more specific, I just didn't see the need. Otherwise, you're probably right. Rookie QB's either get drafted to bad teams, or (in the case of later picks) they don't play at all in their rookie season.
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Wildcard weekend coming up, lets see what yall be predicting!
Poll: Bengals @ TexansTexans (12) 52% Bengals (11) 48% 23 total votes Your vote: Bengals @ Texans (Vote): Bengals
(Vote): Texans
Poll: Vikings @ PackersPackers (18) 78% Vikings (5) 22% 23 total votes Your vote: Vikings @ Packers (Vote): Vikings
(Vote): Packers
Poll: Colts @ RavensColts (12) 52% Ravens (11) 48% 23 total votes Your vote: Colts @ Ravens (Vote): Colts
(Vote): Ravens
Poll: Seahawks @ RedskinsSeahawks (16) 64% Redskins (9) 36% 25 total votes Your vote: Seahawks @ Redskins (Vote): Seahawks
(Vote): Redskins
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I think Bengals have sick momentum going into these playoffs, and have a lot to prove, where Texans offense is continuing to struggle to establish its identity, if Texans come to play then its a blowout but as it stands I'm calling the upset...
Bengals 17 @ Texans 10
Vikings going to Packer town where Green Bay snow will be an advantage for the green and yellow, no brainer.... I voted Vikings cause thats what I want to happen but Packers should be able to roll the Vikings pretty well with the home field advantage. I know some of the more informed of you will say "but Packers have lost last 2 playoff home games," while this is true, this was to teams who were arguably better teams where the Vikings just are not.
Vikings 17 @ Packers 35
The second most interesting game to me will be the Colts in Baltimore. You have the inspirational leader back for the Ravens as well as that motivation of his retirement announcement, a super bowl run from them would be a great story but on the other side of the field you have the story that is Chuck Pagono... Both teams are fighting to prove their worth and both teams would be make for great stories. In the end though, stories a side, I think that the Ravens are just more playoff ready in this situation so I'm gonna give the slight edge to them...
Colts 21 @ Ravens 24
I am biased as Seattle is my hometown and I have been a Seahawks fan for 10 years now and I feel this is our time to shine... That being said, I am super excited for this game. Russel Wilson the 3rd round pick vs Robert Griffin the 1st round pick will be extremely fun to watch... Similar offenses so both defenses will not what to expect. As much as I love Russel, objectively speaking RGIII is the better QB. But as good as he is Russel is solid and in the end I believe it will be the Defense that will decide this game... In that situation, it is quite obvious that Seattle has the edge here so I'm going to say (fingers crossed) Seattle takes this game.
Seahawks 20 @ Redskins 17
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Lol at no one picking the vikings other then me. Ad is gona start blocking field goals and running back kickoffs for tds ALL DAY! The intense cold is going to make it hard to throw and catch the rock and adrian is gona run riffshot while blair walsh hits 6 field goals from 60+ yards no problem.
Or ponder is injured harvin has left town and will never come back and adrian gets traded for half of the jacksonville jags. These things happen more often than you think in minnesota.
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I'm gonna pick Bungals, Packers, Ravens, and Redskins to win.
What's everyone's opinion of Marvin Lewis now? I know everyone (including me) thought he should have been fired after they went 4-12 a couple years ago, but now they've made the playoffs twice in a row after a couple really good drafts and 3 of the last 4 years overall. And they only have 3 losing seasons in his ten years.
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Looks like Reid is going to KC. More suicides on the way...
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On January 04 2013 05:43 DannyJ wrote:
Looks like Reid is going to KC. More suicides on the way...
Too soon, too soon...........besides, Reid would bring a massive improvement to KC, especially after a year as terrible as they've had.
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Yeah instead of go on a 1-12 streak to end the season they can go on a 1-11 streak like the Eagles did this year.
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EPT
