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On September 18 2014 00:38 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2014 00:15 Skilledblob wrote:On September 17 2014 23:05 Gorsameth wrote:
Meh i've had enough of the game already. got to level 22 and the questing is just mind numbingly boring. MMO quests are always boring Yeah if you judge an MMO by its mandatory questing phase you're doing it wrong imho. Questing is as much the content of an MMO as "vs AI" is the ladder of SC2.
And some of us dont feel like spending the better part of a week doing something we dont enjoy to try out an endgame of a game I am in general iffy about. Even more so if your significantly hampered by being a f2p player.
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On September 18 2014 00:40 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2014 00:38 KeksX wrote:On September 18 2014 00:15 Skilledblob wrote:On September 17 2014 23:05 Gorsameth wrote:
Meh i've had enough of the game already. got to level 22 and the questing is just mind numbingly boring. MMO quests are always boring Yeah if you judge an MMO by its mandatory questing phase you're doing it wrong imho. Questing is as much the content of an MMO as "vs AI" is the ladder of SC2. And some of us dont feel like spending the better part of a week doing something we dont enjoy to try out an endgame of a game I am in general iffy about. Even more so if your significantly hampered by being a f2p player.
As a F2P player you will not have a lot of fun in this game anyway but thats another discussion.
However you get your first crafting quest at Lv10ish, then you get your large scarecrow, your trading quests and so on. You don't have to quest. Of course, if you expect to be max lvl after 2 days and farm gear all the time you have to grind through the quests first. But the game wasn't designed with that in mind so naturally it won't be as much fun as everything else.
After Lv30 even the questing becomes largely different due to the Open PvP being active in those zones.
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Questing is fine, if you're one of the 0.1% that actually reads all quest text then you'll probably be disappointed.
Tbh i can pick up more of a story going on in quests just through the objectives and area i'm in, i never read the text at the beginning and end but i can always tell whats going on and what i'm doing for who and why.
Example: Earlier i was doing a series of quests in an area where the dead were rising from their grave. I was first sent to quell the threat, then experiement on them with different undead-stopping holy stuff, i was then sent to kill a necromancer who was only a small part of the problem not the cause, so i had to travel and find a holy shrine that was being assaulted and assist the troops there in repairing it. Along the way i met a family that had taken the opportunity to try and resurrect their loved ones, one of their family asked me to stop them.
Thats me recalling a bunch of quests from hazy memory only formed through quick glances at quest text. Thats far far more then i could ever say for most games and "story" enough for me. In fact i think they did a great job.
As for the actual quests themselves, its just the run of the mill MMO stuff that wont ever be gotten rid of until some innovates the genre lol.
The quests are also not at ALL what this game is about, they are meant to be a semi-necessary side-attraction to get you to level 50, hell the first 30 levels are essentially a big tutorial.
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Servers are up! (for NA) I'm going to be making my character in one of the new servers.
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On September 18 2014 00:40 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2014 00:38 KeksX wrote:On September 18 2014 00:15 Skilledblob wrote:On September 17 2014 23:05 Gorsameth wrote:
Meh i've had enough of the game already. got to level 22 and the questing is just mind numbingly boring. MMO quests are always boring Yeah if you judge an MMO by its mandatory questing phase you're doing it wrong imho. Questing is as much the content of an MMO as "vs AI" is the ladder of SC2. The question is: Why is this necessary? They could just make interesting questing (as in writing interesting quest text, not actually innovative tasks).
the thing is nobody reads the quest texts anyway. because that takes time and wasting time means being slower than the rest.
what MMOs could do is do it similarly to Guild Wars 1 where you got to max level very fast within a decent story line. GW1 was able to do this a) because the story was only fluff for the pvp anyway b) because the game was "pay once to play" (which really it wasnt) c) people were able to make max level PvP chars right from the get go.
when you have f2p or subscription titles making players invest time into the game and keeping them in the game is much more important. For f2p it is important so you "motivate" aka annoy people into buying stuff in the shop and for subscriptions it's important so you get your paycheck at the end of the month.
GW1 had it good in the way that it was purely focused on PvP and I really loved that game for its focused nature and awsome pvp.
Arche Age on the other hand doesnt want to be a pure pvp game focused on 8vs8 arenas. So you kinda have to live with the shitty quests and leveling system that are there to appease the carebears and make them feel like they are progressing, slowly admittedly but what does a guy care who maybe spends one hour playing each day about how fast he is compared to the rest, he most likely plays the game for purely therapeutic reasons.
So yea trying to hit a large-ish target demographic is what waters down game mechanics like the leveling in turn frustrating the players that really only want to focus on one aspect by making them grind through super boring quests to get to the fun stuff. Then you have your f2p players that you want to buy stuff in your shop so you have to water down the core mechanics even more which at the same time pisses of everyone who pays the subscription.
so yea making MMOs is hard man.
I am looking forward how Camelot Unchained will turn out. They seem to have a good focus and a clear idea what their target audience is so maybe that game will fix some of the problems bigger MMOs have.
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On September 18 2014 00:57 Capped wrote:
Questing is fine, if you're one of the 0.1% that actually reads all quest text then you'll probably be disappointed.
Oh hai.
.
And yes, I was disappointed by the quest text after reading how much hype AA lore generated...srsly.
@Skilldeblob: I agree. GW did it right. Short leveling phase with a decent story. All questing was optional, having way less quests but with way better quality. GW lore is really really interesting and the quest delivered a good part of it.
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On September 18 2014 01:42 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2014 00:57 Capped wrote:
Questing is fine, if you're one of the 0.1% that actually reads all quest text then you'll probably be disappointed.
Oh hai. . And yes, I was disappointed by the quest text after reading how much hype AA lore generated...srsly.
Well yeah it was pure marketing when people hyped up the lore. Yes ArcheAge is loosely based on a korean novel but
a) the writer of said novel had nothing to do with the game apart from giving some insight here and there and b
b) the story stops at Lv30 and it's all just pure "please kill these monsters thx" from there.
ArcheAge is definitely not played for its singleplayer story but mor for everything that has nothing to do with quests!
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I should stop already posting parts of my posts when I am still editing another huge rant at the end haha
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
How many more evenings of 3hr+ queues until enough people get bored of the game
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On September 18 2014 04:12 ahswtini wrote:
How many more evenings of 3hr+ queues until enough people get bored of the game
if previous mmo's show anything, 2 weeks orso before it starts to die down a little
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On September 18 2014 01:49 Skilledblob wrote:
I should stop already posting parts of my posts when I am still editing another huge rant at the end haha
^^ To the rest of your post: I think it covers a main problem of todays gaming industry. Aiming for the biggest audience is not always the best way to do it, especially if everyone else is doing it as well AND you want to provide a long term project. The industry, both producers and customers, are still in children age. They don't get it yet. But I think, for MMOs or games that base themselves on an online community at least it is the best to aim for a niche instead of the biggest audience. Because if you aim for a niche it's much easier to create a game that this certain niche likes and they will stay. On the otherside, if yyou try to please everyone you probably end up pleasing nobody.
That being said, I think you can provide progress by other means than just leveling. I know, the GW system of low level cap and instant max gear is not everyones cup of tea, even if I personally think it's vastly superior to anything else out there right now. But you can still have skill progression, gear progression etc. if they reduce the level cap.
On September 18 2014 04:15 Zidane wrote:
Because its korean
Hm? What are you adressing?
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On September 18 2014 04:33 Miragee wrote:That being said, I think you can provide progress by other means than just leveling. I know, the GW system of low level cap and instant max gear is not everyones cup of tea, even if I personally think it's vastly superior to anything else out there right now. But you can still have skill progression, gear progression etc. if they reduce the level cap.
I agree but you gotta keep in mind that they were just trying to get all these WoW Fans with that kind of thing. They pretty much just put in raids into the game to make theso called "themepark players" happy!
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I played EVE for quite some time now and the one thing that it taught me on game design is that other players are the best themepark
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Im on Tahyang playing on the feral faction as a caster if anyone wants to add me my username/char name is the same as my TL name. currently in a 3k person que though.
Edit: only 2k more to go.. lol
Edit2: This is a bit rough, at 1.5k after 3 hours.
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Had it open in the background for 5 hours earlier whilst it whittled it's way through a 5600 queue. Play for 5 minutes, and it crashes. Thankfully the disconnect grace period allowed me to get back in instantly.
Apart from the queues, really enjoying this so far. Would like my patron to be activated though!
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On September 18 2014 00:57 Capped wrote:
Questing is fine, if you're one of the 0.1% that actually reads all quest text then you'll probably be disappointed.
Tbh i can pick up more of a story going on in quests just through the objectives and area i'm in, i never read the text at the beginning and end but i can always tell whats going on and what i'm doing for who and why.
Example: Earlier i was doing a series of quests in an area where the dead were rising from their grave. I was first sent to quell the threat, then experiement on them with different undead-stopping holy stuff, i was then sent to kill a necromancer who was only a small part of the problem not the cause, so i had to travel and find a holy shrine that was being assaulted and assist the troops there in repairing it. Along the way i met a family that had taken the opportunity to try and resurrect their loved ones, one of their family asked me to stop them.
Thats me recalling a bunch of quests from hazy memory only formed through quick glances at quest text. Thats far far more then i could ever say for most games and "story" enough for me. In fact i think they did a great job.
As for the actual quests themselves, its just the run of the mill MMO stuff that wont ever be gotten rid of until some innovates the genre lol.
The quests are also not at ALL what this game is about, they are meant to be a semi-necessary side-attraction to get you to level 50, hell the first 30 levels are essentially a big tutorial.
The problem is that questing was more or less an "innovation" to the genre started by EQ iirc, WoW ran with it and now every MMO has been using it since then. Well, every MMO barring sandbox ones because the selling point of sandbox games is not supposed to be the leveling phase so they don't stretch it out with inane tasks , yes I'm aware this game has sandbox elements but the leveling phase in this game does not leave me convinced that the sandbox elements are going to be any good.
Questing works in the previously mentioned games because they do a good job at it even though I'm not really a questing kind of guy, I couldn't even motivate myself to play past level 10 because the questing system in this game is so awful, no challenge, no atmosphere and no story worth caring about.
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On September 18 2014 08:44 Valenius wrote:
Had it open in the background for 5 hours earlier whilst it whittled it's way through a 5600 queue. Play for 5 minutes, and it crashes. Thankfully the disconnect grace period allowed me to get back in instantly.
Apart from the queues, really enjoying this so far. Would like my patron to be activated though!
My game crashed in loading screen after waiting 1-2 hours and thought I was going to have to wait again.
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On September 18 2014 10:39 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2014 00:57 Capped wrote:
Questing is fine, if you're one of the 0.1% that actually reads all quest text then you'll probably be disappointed.
Tbh i can pick up more of a story going on in quests just through the objectives and area i'm in, i never read the text at the beginning and end but i can always tell whats going on and what i'm doing for who and why.
Example: Earlier i was doing a series of quests in an area where the dead were rising from their grave. I was first sent to quell the threat, then experiement on them with different undead-stopping holy stuff, i was then sent to kill a necromancer who was only a small part of the problem not the cause, so i had to travel and find a holy shrine that was being assaulted and assist the troops there in repairing it. Along the way i met a family that had taken the opportunity to try and resurrect their loved ones, one of their family asked me to stop them.
Thats me recalling a bunch of quests from hazy memory only formed through quick glances at quest text. Thats far far more then i could ever say for most games and "story" enough for me. In fact i think they did a great job.
As for the actual quests themselves, its just the run of the mill MMO stuff that wont ever be gotten rid of until some innovates the genre lol.
The quests are also not at ALL what this game is about, they are meant to be a semi-necessary side-attraction to get you to level 50, hell the first 30 levels are essentially a big tutorial.
The problem is that questing was more or less an "innovation" to the genre started by EQ iirc, WoW ran with it and now every MMO has been using it since then. Well, every MMO barring sandbox ones because the selling point of sandbox games is not supposed to be the leveling phase so they don't stretch it out with inane tasks , yes I'm aware this game has sandbox elements but the leveling phase in this game does not leave me convinced that the sandbox elements are going to be any good. Questing works in the previously mentioned games because they do a good job at it even though I'm not really a questing kind of guy, I couldn't even motivate myself to play past level 10 because the questing system in this game is so awful, no challenge, no atmosphere and no story worth caring about.
Im still waiting for someone to take the bold step of just ditching the level concept entirely.
Give people an introduction (skippable if done before) where you explain mechanics and introduce abilities and then boom your in the world and free to do whatever you want.
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On September 18 2014 16:16 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2014 10:39 zbedlam wrote:On September 18 2014 00:57 Capped wrote:
Questing is fine, if you're one of the 0.1% that actually reads all quest text then you'll probably be disappointed.
Tbh i can pick up more of a story going on in quests just through the objectives and area i'm in, i never read the text at the beginning and end but i can always tell whats going on and what i'm doing for who and why.
Example: Earlier i was doing a series of quests in an area where the dead were rising from their grave. I was first sent to quell the threat, then experiement on them with different undead-stopping holy stuff, i was then sent to kill a necromancer who was only a small part of the problem not the cause, so i had to travel and find a holy shrine that was being assaulted and assist the troops there in repairing it. Along the way i met a family that had taken the opportunity to try and resurrect their loved ones, one of their family asked me to stop them.
Thats me recalling a bunch of quests from hazy memory only formed through quick glances at quest text. Thats far far more then i could ever say for most games and "story" enough for me. In fact i think they did a great job.
As for the actual quests themselves, its just the run of the mill MMO stuff that wont ever be gotten rid of until some innovates the genre lol.
The quests are also not at ALL what this game is about, they are meant to be a semi-necessary side-attraction to get you to level 50, hell the first 30 levels are essentially a big tutorial.
The problem is that questing was more or less an "innovation" to the genre started by EQ iirc, WoW ran with it and now every MMO has been using it since then. Well, every MMO barring sandbox ones because the selling point of sandbox games is not supposed to be the leveling phase so they don't stretch it out with inane tasks , yes I'm aware this game has sandbox elements but the leveling phase in this game does not leave me convinced that the sandbox elements are going to be any good. Questing works in the previously mentioned games because they do a good job at it even though I'm not really a questing kind of guy, I couldn't even motivate myself to play past level 10 because the questing system in this game is so awful, no challenge, no atmosphere and no story worth caring about. Im still waiting for someone to take the bold step of just ditching the level concept entirely. Give people an introduction (skippable if done before) where you explain mechanics and introduce abilities and then boom your in the world and free to do whatever you want.
Yeah, me too. Anet wanted to do that with GW2. But in the end their balls became anti-balls and they fluffed in as much themepark as possible into the game.
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EPT
