Maps like alpine don't help, vast, kilometer long open areas, what are you ever gonna do in an atlas that brings the AC20 in a map like that? You'll never ever get in range to use it, even the bases are wide open from nearly all sides to several kilometers. It's not even an issue of charging in blind, you'll simply never get to a spot where you can brawl if the other team isn't blind, not much helped by the fact that anyone can get their very own 400 meter wallhack with 6 million cbills and 17500 gxp (seismic).
MechWarrior Online (New) - Page 45
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Maps like alpine don't help, vast, kilometer long open areas, what are you ever gonna do in an atlas that brings the AC20 in a map like that? You'll never ever get in range to use it, even the bases are wide open from nearly all sides to several kilometers. It's not even an issue of charging in blind, you'll simply never get to a spot where you can brawl if the other team isn't blind, not much helped by the fact that anyone can get their very own 400 meter wallhack with 6 million cbills and 17500 gxp (seismic). | ||
Belisarius
Australia6230 Posts
On July 04 2013 13:13 daemir wrote: Maps like alpine don't help, vast, kilometer long open areas, what are you ever gonna do in an atlas that brings the AC20 in a map like that? You'll never ever get in range to use it, even the bases are wide open from nearly all sides to several kilometers. It's not even an issue of charging in blind, you'll simply never get to a spot where you can brawl if the other team isn't blind, not much helped by the fact that anyone can get their very own 400 meter wallhack with 6 million cbills and 17500 gxp (seismic). Sure, but you shouldn't be taking a brawling atlas on a map like that. The real problem is in the fact that we still, after almost a year of paying money for a "beta", don't have the ability to preselect maps or tailor 'mechs to maps. That produces all kinds of retarded situations, like ending up with a slow brawler on a gigantic map. The reverse of this used to happen when you rolled a sniper on frozen city under netcode 0.1 in the medlas era. Actually there are a whole series of problems, and all of them have fed into each other. PGI has just made a complete dog's breakfast of the balancing and gameplay design side of things. I have very little faith in their ability to correct this one. As an example, the first problem was the netcode. It was awful. Thus, PPCs were awful unless you lived next to the server farm. Thus, everyone screamed for PPC buffs, and PPCs were buffed outrageously to make up for the fact that you could expect to hit one shot in four. Then, like eight months later, they fixed the netcode. Suddenly the weapons that were balanced in their worst environment possible are now overpowered. Who'd have thought. The multiple weapon heat penalty thing is another example. It's a short-sighted fix for a short-term problem. Rather than dealing with problems intelligently, by going back and looking at the underlying issue, they've slapped band-aid after band-aid on top of one another, and each has produced side-problems which are then dealt with via yet another band aid. It makes me incredibly frustrated to see this happening to my favourite franchise. And don't get me started on hero 'mechs and modules and R&R 2.0 and the RNG mechanics they've added. | ||
daemir
Finland8662 Posts
same issues as GW2 had, need custom lobbies so bad, so you could actually practice your 8 man drops and different maps. | ||
unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
Bringing out the map makes you stop if u dont have autorun on, you can't hold down backspace to erase any text you type, generally the UI is the worst UI i have ever seen since i started gaming in 98. Just about every aspect of it from the placement of menus and information to it's actual functions and handling. Couple this with some Q&A disasters, like the hill penalty now - you stop dead in your tracks on a freaking pebble in the ground with a 100 ton mech going 60 km/h. This game feels like a couple of guys that know maya/3ds got together and said "let's make a game". Don't get me wrong though, the game is good and i like it a lot. But there is so much potential being squandered by the devs. They're constantly dropping the ball on just about everything. And this isn't a whine like a Blizzard whine "OMG TWO WEEKS TO PATCH VOIDRAYS?! BLIZZARD WORST COMPANY EVER" but it's more actual fact and signs of incompetence, in my eyes it seems they are "learning by doing" which there's nothing wrong with except that people are throwing money at them for doing it. | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On July 04 2013 17:24 unkkz wrote: Yeah besides balancing issues and stuff there are so many tiny quirky details that should be fixed, hell they shouldn't even have existed in the first place. But the oversight of a lot of these tiny things makes me think the devs of this game are very inexperienced. Bringing out the map makes you stop if u dont have autorun on, you can't hold down backspace to erase any text you type, generally the UI is the worst UI i have ever seen since i started gaming in 98. Just about every aspect of it from the placement of menus and information to it's actual functions and handling. Couple this with some Q&A disasters, like the hill penalty now - you stop dead in your tracks on a freaking pebble in the ground with a 100 ton mech going 60 km/h. This game feels like a couple of guys that know maya/3ds got together and said "let's make a game". Don't get me wrong though, the game is good and i like it a lot. But there is so much potential being squandered by the devs. They're constantly dropping the ball on just about everything. And this isn't a whine like a Blizzard whine "OMG TWO WEEKS TO PATCH VOIDRAYS?! BLIZZARD WORST COMPANY EVER" but it's more actual fact and signs of incompetence, in my eyes it seems they are "learning by doing" which there's nothing wrong with except that people are throwing money at them for doing it. I'm very sympathetic to these concerns and frustrations, but I have to say that I think whining/worrying about doesn't do much good. We wanted a MechWarrior game, even if it was from a tiny indie developer with a 10-man team. That's what we got. And they've grown and expanded since then, but their 40-something developers now doesn't begin to put them in Blizzard's league, particularly if you're going by available capital. And they had half this many just a few months ago. Things have gone slowly (particularly QA and balance things... the most manpower intensive aspects of game development) not because of incompetence but lack of resources. The one thing that they are actually bad at is communication, because they don't seem to have the resources to hire any real communication professionals, so everything comes out slapdash on the twitter feeds of the lead developer and creative director and the facebook page and announcement section. I only hope that we can grow and acquire the player base that will be necessary to fund expansion until the game is fully-featured. But I understand that this is a testing phase, and frankly still will be for months or a year after "release." It is incredible that we're getting anything, and this is an exceptionally lovingly done take on the MechWarrior universe. And it's fun! I really like playing it, and frankly, I'd still be playing it years from now if they quit development now and kept the servers running. But they will keep expanding it, and we'll see if there really is a market for a thinking man's (or woman's) shooter. | ||
unkkz
Norway2196 Posts
On July 05 2013 05:23 Yoav wrote: I'm very sympathetic to these concerns and frustrations, but I have to say that I think whining/worrying about doesn't do much good. We wanted a MechWarrior game, even if it was from a tiny indie developer with a 10-man team. That's what we got. And they've grown and expanded since then, but their 40-something developers now doesn't begin to put them in Blizzard's league, particularly if you're going by available capital. And they had half this many just a few months ago. Things have gone slowly (particularly QA and balance things... the most manpower intensive aspects of game development) not because of incompetence but lack of resources. The one thing that they are actually bad at is communication, because they don't seem to have the resources to hire any real communication professionals, so everything comes out slapdash on the twitter feeds of the lead developer and creative director and the facebook page and announcement section. I only hope that we can grow and acquire the player base that will be necessary to fund expansion until the game is fully-featured. But I understand that this is a testing phase, and frankly still will be for months or a year after "release." It is incredible that we're getting anything, and this is an exceptionally lovingly done take on the MechWarrior universe. And it's fun! I really like playing it, and frankly, I'd still be playing it years from now if they quit development now and kept the servers running. But they will keep expanding it, and we'll see if there really is a market for a thinking man's (or woman's) shooter. Yeah i never meant they were in Blizzards league, just compared it to the criticism Blizzard gets which is... not exactly huge problems people moan about. I agree that the game is great, but it is frustrating watching them make mistake upon mistake. I am not going to be as dramatic and say that these mistakes will drive players away or kill the game or anything - the sky isn't exactly falling. And saying they were incompetent might've been a tad harsh but in some cases they kinda are, however that's due to inexperience i guess. I want clans and stuff. And while i sit here wishing for that i still see them devoting resources into balancing the game with band aid upon band aid while remaining oblivious to the fundamental problems(we need a tonnage limit, the heat increase of X weapons fire is a terrible solution, it's squatting a fly with a hand grenade). What they need is a David Kim of MWO. Instead of devoting time and energy into making the game look better(effects and mechs are nice, environments are pretty crappy looking) or give us more maps, gamemodes and other good additions to attract even more players, they are stuck doing other stuff that simply should be done by now. It's two steps forward and 1,5 steps backwards at every turn it seems. However, if they get it done this game will live long and be a cash cow. The model makes people pay well above the retail price of a normal game within months of playing. I never buy stuff in games but i did buy some currency for bonus XP when that was on sale and i don´t doubt i will buy some more when clans arrive(MAD CAAAAT, NOVA PEWPEW) | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On July 05 2013 06:16 unkkz wrote: Yeah i never meant they were in Blizzards league, just compared it to the criticism Blizzard gets which is... not exactly huge problems people moan about. I agree that the game is great, but it is frustrating watching them make mistake upon mistake. I am not going to be as dramatic and say that these mistakes will drive players away or kill the game or anything - the sky isn't exactly falling. And saying they were incompetent might've been a tad harsh but in some cases they kinda are, however that's due to inexperience i guess. I want clans and stuff. And while i sit here wishing for that i still see them devoting resources into balancing the game with band aid upon band aid while remaining oblivious to the fundamental problems(we need a tonnage limit, the heat increase of X weapons fire is a terrible solution, it's squatting a fly with a hand grenade). What they need is a David Kim of MWO. Instead of devoting time and energy into making the game look better(effects and mechs are nice, environments are pretty crappy looking) or give us more maps, gamemodes and other good additions to attract even more players, they are stuck doing other stuff that simply should be done by now. It's two steps forward and 1,5 steps backwards at every turn it seems. However, if they get it done this game will live long and be a cash cow. The model makes people pay well above the retail price of a normal game within months of playing. I never buy stuff in games but i did buy some currency for bonus XP when that was on sale and i don´t doubt i will buy some more when clans arrive(MAD CAAAAT, NOVA PEWPEW) All of this for sure, both positive. They absolutely do need to hire a dedicated lead balancer with a strong theoretical and practical knowledge of the subject. And any balancing work until the final drop system is indeed band-aids. (I actually think they know this, which would account for the relative inaction and their constant referring back to the upcoming UI 2.0 and CW.) But shorter range weapons (SL, SPL, ML, AC/10, MG, Flamer, and LBX, not just SRM) need a general buff, to make brawlers more able to tear snipers apart by the time they get in range. Reversing the PPC heat buff would probably be well advised too. And I know all this might be reverted; it's not actually about final balance, it's about keeping people engaged in the game until the final game modes are available for us to balance. That said, this is an amazing game, and I still find it a ton of fun to run canon or un-optimized builds in PUG games and see how I can do. (New idea: Funday Monday Challenges for MWO?) | ||
PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On July 05 2013 07:48 PassiveAce wrote: This game is practically built for Funday Mondays XD Challenge accepted. MWO Funday Monday Challenge #1 Minimum Engine: Run with a minimum rated engine. No additional heat sinks beyond your engine-required sinks are allowed. Bonus points for: +Winning +Getting top match score +Not using PPCs +Not boating weapons +Wide-open map +Uncommon 'mech chassis (SDR, BJ, DRG, AWS) +Using a light without ECM Post videos of yourself, or screencaps of particularly epic moments. New challenge to come next Monday. Known TLers on MWO: + Show Spoiler + Khanahar (TL: Yoav) Erish II (TL: daemir) Rwrzr MeatLoaf Raddmiral (TL: hp.Shell) Unkkz Redoxin Aym (TL: CuLane) Vanir (TL: Obsidian) Black Snooty (TL: ObiWanPwnobi) TL Tarias MoonfireSpam TrickyGilligan Passive42 (TL: PassiveAce) Hoender Sick Ion (TL: Sicion) Some Guides + Show Spoiler + New Player Quick-List + Show Spoiler + 1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name.. 2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then. 3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at. 4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums. 5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab 6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums! Mechlab How to Build a Stompy Robot + Show Spoiler + 1. Always get faster engine than stock 2. Always max armor -No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok -Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers 3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS) 4. Usually get Endo Steel 5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight. 6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard. XL Engines + Show Spoiler + Good Mechs for an XL: Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon Bad Mechs for an XL: Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos) Build Dependent Mechs: Centurion: SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard Cataphract, Jagermech Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function. Game Mechanics Critical Slots + Show Spoiler + Standard abreviations in MechWarrior/Battletech include: H=Head (1 slot) CT= Center Torso (2) RT/LT= Right/Left Torso (12 standard, if XL engine, only 9) CTR/RTR/LTR= Center/Right/Left Torso Rear (shares internals and slots with respective front section) RL/LL= Right/Left Leg (2) RA/LA= Right/Left Arm (slots complicated) Slots in Arms: 10 Slots: Unarticulated Arms Vertical Tracking only; cannot track horizontally beyond torso. Can mount more serious weaponry, such as dual UAC/5s or single AC/20s. 'Mechs with Unarticulated Arms are usually able to rotate their torsos farther than comparable 'mechs with Articulated Arms (including on the same chassis). Mechs: + Show Spoiler + Jenner Raven Cicada Blackjack CN9-YLW (hero Centurion) Catapult Jagermech Stalker HGN-733C <--Actually Minimally Articulated; 10 slots, but can traverse 10 degrees horizontally 9 Slots: Articulated Arms--No Hands Horizontal and vertical tracking make for better aiming, particularly against faster targets. Tradeoff is less ability to mount some weapon setups. Mechs: + Show Spoiler + Dragon CTF-4X 9/8 Slots: Articulated Arms--LA Hand only Some 'mechs have a Left Hand but no Right. When melee is implemented, they will have a good LA punch to back up their RA weapons. Mechs: + Show Spoiler + Centurion (except YLW) Trebuchet Cataphract (except 4X) Awesome Highlander (733C is wierd; Minimally articulated RA, hand on LA, but both arms track together. 10/8 slots) 8 Slots: Articulated Arms--With Hands Currently, no advantage exists to 'mechs with hands. Eventually, hands will matter in the melee system, due to be part of the Solaris expansion, a year or so out from September release. Don't hold your breath. Mechs: + Show Spoiler + Commando Spider Hunchback Quickdraw Atlas Loadout Implications of Articulation Some examples of the kinda of loadouts that are restricted by certain arrangements of actuators. Note that several of these loadouts are possible on only a single 'mech chassis, due to hardpoint restrictions. Always use Smurfy to check out possible loadouts. Loadouts Exclusive to Unarticulated (10 slot) Arms: Note that XL 'mechs cannot run these loadouts in their side torsos + Show Spoiler + 1x AC/20 2x UAC/5 GR + PPC AC/10+PPC 2x LRM20 Loadouts Only Possible for Handless (10 or 9 slot) Arms: + Show Spoiler + UAC/5 + AC/5 3x PPC GR + LL AC/10+LL LBX+PPC Weapon Ranges + Show Spoiler + All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range]. All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy). Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range. Critical Hits + Show Spoiler + In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works. See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots). Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage. Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition. Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored. However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below: 58% of the time, no critical damage. 25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component. 14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one) 3% chance 3x weapon damage. A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon). Special critical values 33% 0 crits 33% 1 crit 28% 2 crits 6% 3 crits Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits. Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%. Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier. Implications of Critical Hit System Scoring Critical Hits Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s. Defending against Critical Hits Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad." Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE. Weapons Autocannons + Show Spoiler + All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons. The below listed by increasing weight AC/2: +Long range, +Excellent DPS per tonnage +Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel +High projectile speed -Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers) -Damage scattered all over target -Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency AC/5: +Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots +Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons ~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper) -Low DPS -Sucks UAC/5: +Absurd DPS +Best noise in game ~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it. -Biggest ammo-hog in game -Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger. LB10-X AC: +Scattershot +Good if you can't hit things ++Bonus to crit damage +Lightish for job -Scattershot -Limited range -Low striking power, DPS AC/10: +Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation) +Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely +Style points ~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage -Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range -Lowish DPS AC20: +20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit +2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots. +High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover +Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening) -Really easy to lose to critical hits -Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots -Really heavy -Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine -Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10). Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms: Highlander 733C Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb") Centurion YLW (Hero variant) Raven 4X Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines. All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m. Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.) Laser Weapons + Show Spoiler + Unlike ACs, Laser weapons get more powerful as they get longer-range, though efficiency suffers. Important things to keep track of are DPS/ton and Damage/heat, which show efficiency in 'mechlab and when under high-heat conditions on the field. Energy weapons generally have superior DPS/ton to ballistics, but substantially worse damage/heat. NB: PPC line and flamers not in this Laser guide. They will appear later with their actual peers, respectively the Gauss (Sniper Weapons) and Flamer (Crit-Seekers). The below listed by increasing weight and heat Small Laser +Insane DPS/ton +Insane damage/heat for an energy weapon +Weighs .5 tons, good for filling out load-outs -Weak individually, which means hardpoints prevent too much boating of these -Hardpoints mean these work better on smaller mechs (which have more HP/tons) ---Piss-poor range. Like really, really bad. Small Pulse Laser +Shortest burn time of lasers with hitscan means great accuracy for ankle-biters who want to take a shot and turn away -Objectively the worst weapon in the game. Recently buffed, so not wholly inferior to the ML, but we'll have to see how it fares in the meta. Medium Laser +Most versatile weapon in game. Good combination of traits. I run it on essentially all of my builds as the standard back-up weapon. Hard to boat as a primary due to hardpoints, but great as a secondary. Some variants can boat for high heat but great short range power. +Great DPS/ton +Easy to hit lights +Weighs 1 ton, 1 slot -Fairly short range -Hard to boat -Heat gets up there in larger numbers Medium Pulse Laser +Slightly better heat/damage than ML +Better at fitting into limited hardpoints (e.g. CT energy slots on CN9) than ML +Faster burn time makes it really good for concentrating damage on scouts -Substantially worse DPS/ton than ML -Lower range than ML -Inferior to ML except for specialty applications Large Laser +LL line is only way to get laser mechanic (easy to hit) with significant damage per hardpoint, making them popular with heavies and assaults +Good range for a laser -Way heavier than other laser models (at 5 tons 10x the SL, 5x the ML) -Lacks the great efficiency that characterizes other lasers Extended Range Large Laser (ERLL) +Popular as a pinch sniper. Tonnage cheap way to get long range damage -On paper and by stats, a terrible weapon. The efficiency you want from a laser is not here Large Pulse Laser +High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability -Really bad efficiency Of course, use this only as an outline. Try out what weapons work for you. Stats aren't everything, as the popularity of the LL line shows. MPLs in particular have their fans, despite being kinda sub-optimal by the numbers. Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency) Sniper Weapons NEW!! + Show Spoiler + The favored weapons of the current meta, Sniper weapons make huge sacrifices in efficiency and stats for range, and high damage per strike at that range. The below listed by increasing weight and heat Suppression Weapons AC/2 +A capable long range weapon with unusually good brawling capability +Projectile speed and RoF give it a unique role as a targeting weapon: if you're leading right to hit with the AC/2, you'll land your PPC and GR shots. +High DPS. In a long-range stand-and-fight scenario, the best weapon out there. -Tiny damage packets mean that it is unsuited to Sniper work. Cannot duck in and out of cover, and damage tends to scatter across the target. Large Laser and ER LL +Longest range hitscan weapons. With burn time, makes them very accurate. +Excellent for precision work, such as focusing down a weakened side torso, or attempting a headshot +Great for anti-scout work at close range, for a long range weapon. Great at "sweeping the leg" -Scattered damage -Shorter range than the other weapons on this list True Sniper Weapons PPC +Most generally useful sniper weapon, most favored weapon in current meta +Especially when fired in groups, crazy damage per burst +Heat limitation is mitigated if you can duck behind cover after each shot +Remarkably fast cycle time allows serious DPS as heat allows +Kills ECM for 3 seconds, allowing complete suppression of ECM with a single PPC and good enough shooting -High heat, limiting usefulness in a brawl (where it's hard to find cover) -Minimum range (damage falls of linearly from 10 at 90m to 0 at 0m) further limits usefulness in a brawl -Draws a lot of attention fast. Flankers look for places emanating LRMs or PPC bolts as easy prey -Large, high-heat energy weapon with projectile attack. This means that it doesn't pair great with MLs, the standard backup weapon. The synergy forces you into either SLs, MLs fired sparingly, SRMs, or SSRMs (with BAP if you don't have the heat to use PPCs to keep ECM negated) -Boating requires insane amounts of DHS, and usually a big engine to help out. This often forces PPC boats into larger standard engines, which are really heavy ER-PPC +All listed for PPC +NO MINIMUM RANGE. If you've got a good eye, you can drop scouts and flankers easily with the ER-PPC. +Superior maximum range to PPC, among the longest in game +No additional slots or tonnage compared to PPC -Highest heat in game per shot, and bad efficiency to boot -Heat exacerbates the biggest limitation of the PPC Gauss +Almost no heat at all +Synergizes great with PPC or ML, for more sniper power or more backup flexibility +Second highest damage per shot in game +Ammo does not explode +Does significant damage past a kilometer, and only drops off to 0 at around 2km. If you can hit it, you'll do good damage -Ammo dependent -Heaviest weapon in the game (mitigated by lack of heat requirements) -Lot of slots -Low hitpoints make it vulnerable to destruction -Explodes for 15 damage 90% of the time on component or item destruction. In an XL 'mech or anything small, this has a decent chance of killing you outright -Brawl with it, and prepare for a humiliating self-inflicted death As usual, experiment to find your favorites! Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency) Ballistics drop off linearly to 3x effective range (the listed one). This is a notable advantage Since it matters, here is a list of range data on long range weapons: AC/2: ..…720……2,160 Gauss: …660……1,980 (better damage percentage than ER-PPC outside of around 1,250) ER PPC:.810…….1,620 PPC:……540……1,080 Mech Chassis CN9 Builds + Show Spoiler + With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options: 1) AC-based Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal. 2) SRM-based No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant. Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA). Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable. ZOMBIE CENTURIONS: Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie. | ||
daemir
Finland8662 Posts
After doing that much damage, it's up to team mates to finish. Sadly, it ended in me being out of ammo with an atlas with single medium trying to kill me while I try to ram him and time ran out >< e: and fuck this shit about not being able to pick map/ban maps. I play 3 hours on ac2 jager, not a single alpine. I swap into dual lbx10, 2x alpine in a row. Fuck.this.game | ||
CuLane
United States160 Posts
On July 05 2013 08:05 Yoav wrote: Challenge accepted. MWO Funday Monday Challenge #1 Minimum Engine: Run with a minimum rated engine. No additional heat sinks beyond your engine-required sinks are allowed. Bonus points for: +Winning +Getting top match score +Not using PPCs +Not boating weapons +Wide-open map +Uncommon 'mech chassis (SDR, BJ, DRG, AWS) +Using a light without ECM Frankly any light with or w/out ECM is an accomplishment with minimum engines, as would a PPC user. Gauss is your real enemy here, and MAYBE AC/5's since they're very heat efficient as well. Oh, and LURMS, w/out a big engine you can't get out of that LOS. | ||
Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On July 05 2013 19:39 daemir wrote: Tri AC/2 After doing that much damage, it's up to team mates to finish. Sadly, it ended in me being out of ammo with an atlas with single medium trying to kill me while I try to ram him and time ran out >< e: and fuck this shit about not being able to pick map/ban maps. I play 3 hours on ac2 jager, not a single alpine. I swap into dual lbx10, 2x alpine in a row. Fuck.this.game I know I'm in the losing minority here (picking maps is a part of the plan), but I kinda wish they were going to keep the random thing and make people adapt to it. It forces more generalization, and less boating. That said, I understand that in a PUG, you are often all on your own to win and need the extra advantage that silly builds provide. Edit: What's your 3 AC/2 build? I've always found even 4 to have too little firepower. | ||
Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
Not to mention legged. I was legged so often in 1alpha it was annoying. | ||
daemir
Finland8662 Posts
e: okay, I know, I rag on this game quite a bit regardless of playing like 8 hours yesterday, because it's five billion times more fun in a group. | ||
rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
On July 08 2013 12:17 daemir wrote: Yes, welcome to PPCWarrior Online, which sometimes is CapWarrior Online when the PPCWarriors can't find each other. e: okay, I know, I rag on this game quite a bit regardless of playing like 8 hours yesterday, because it's five billion times more fun in a group. I really need to run a group and I probably need to stop using trial mechs. Tried to play Capwarrior Online, but the PPCWarriors of all weight classes shot their blue lazers at me and cored me. | ||
CuLane
United States160 Posts
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On July 09 2013 10:20 CuLane wrote: Trial mechs are universally bad, both at PPC warrior and cap warrior. Which is why Champion 'mechs are the way to go for starting out. But you shouldn't actually have to spend much time in the Champion before you can buy you're own 'mech. | ||
CuLane
United States160 Posts
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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CuLane
United States160 Posts
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