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MechWarrior Online (New) - Page 43

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Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 22:37:05
June 28 2013 22:36 GMT
#841
On June 29 2013 07:29 PassiveAce wrote:
Thanks for the criticism guys, it's all really helpful to me

I'm gonna keep tweaking them around with your suggestions and il come back at you guys.

I really REALLY appreciate your help everyone! : )))
edit- if you guys are thinking of a better chassis for what im trying to accomplish here, id love to hear it


Cataphract can do a lot of the light AC stuff in brawl-mode (those 5 extra tons really count)... but the Jagermech is better for sniping due to higher positioning of arms. It can also mount AC/20s in the arms, which counts for something special. If you're serious about LL builds, a lot of Cat K2s are rocking those or their PPC bretheren.



Known TLers on MWO:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar (TL: Yoav)
Erish II (TL: daemir)
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral (TL: hp.Shell)
Unkkz
Redoxin
Aym (TL: CuLane)
Vanir (TL: Obsidian)
Black Snooty (TL: ObiWanPwnobi)
TL Tarias
MoonfireSpam
TrickyGilligan
Passive42 (TL: PassiveAce)
Hoender
Sick Ion (TL: Sicion)

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab
How to Build a Stompy Robot
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

XL Engines
+ Show Spoiler +

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


Game Mechanics
Critical Slots
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard abreviations in MechWarrior/Battletech include:

H=Head (1 slot)
CT= Center Torso (2)
RT/LT= Right/Left Torso (12 standard, if XL engine, only 9)
CTR/RTR/LTR= Center/Right/Left Torso Rear (shares internals and slots with respective front section)
RL/LL= Right/Left Leg (2)
RA/LA= Right/Left Arm (slots complicated)

Slots in Arms:

10 Slots: Unarticulated Arms
Vertical Tracking only; cannot track horizontally beyond torso. Can mount more serious weaponry, such as dual UAC/5s or single AC/20s. 'Mechs with Unarticulated Arms are usually able to rotate their torsos farther than comparable 'mechs with Articulated Arms (including on the same chassis).
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Jenner
Raven
Cicada
Blackjack
CN9-YLW (hero Centurion)
Catapult
Jagermech
Stalker
HGN-733C <--Actually Minimally Articulated; 10 slots, but can traverse 10 degrees horizontally


9 Slots: Articulated Arms--No Hands
Horizontal and vertical tracking make for better aiming, particularly against faster targets. Tradeoff is less ability to mount some weapon setups.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Dragon
CTF-4X


9/8 Slots: Articulated Arms--LA Hand only
Some 'mechs have a Left Hand but no Right. When melee is implemented, they will have a good LA punch to back up their RA weapons.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Centurion (except YLW)
Trebuchet
Cataphract (except 4X)
Awesome
Highlander (733C is wierd; Minimally articulated RA, hand on LA, but both arms track together. 10/8 slots)


8 Slots: Articulated Arms--With Hands
Currently, no advantage exists to 'mechs with hands. Eventually, hands will matter in the melee system, due to be part of the Solaris expansion, a year or so out from September release. Don't hold your breath.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Commando
Spider
Hunchback
Quickdraw
Atlas


Loadout Implications of Articulation
Some examples of the kinda of loadouts that are restricted by certain arrangements of actuators. Note that several of these loadouts are possible on only a single 'mech chassis, due to hardpoint restrictions. Always use Smurfy to check out possible loadouts.

Loadouts Exclusive to Unarticulated (10 slot) Arms:
Note that XL 'mechs cannot run these loadouts in their side torsos
+ Show Spoiler +
1x AC/20
2x UAC/5
GR + PPC
AC/10+PPC
2x LRM20


Loadouts Only Possible for Handless (10 or 9 slot) Arms:
+ Show Spoiler +
UAC/5 + AC/5
3x PPC
GR + LL
AC/10+LL
LBX+PPC

Weapon Ranges
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.

Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Weapons
Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

Laser Weapons
+ Show Spoiler +

Unlike ACs, Laser weapons get more powerful as they get longer-range, though efficiency suffers. Important things to keep track of are DPS/ton and Damage/heat, which show efficiency in 'mechlab and when under high-heat conditions on the field. Energy weapons generally have superior DPS/ton to ballistics, but substantially worse damage/heat. NB: PPC line and flamers not in this Laser guide. They will appear later with their actual peers, respectively the Gauss (Sniper Weapons) and Flamer (Crit-Seekers).

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Small Laser
+Insane DPS/ton
+Insane damage/heat for an energy weapon
+Weighs .5 tons, good for filling out load-outs
-Weak individually, which means hardpoints prevent too much boating of these
-Hardpoints mean these work better on smaller mechs (which have more HP/tons)
---Piss-poor range. Like really, really bad.

Small Pulse Laser
+Shortest burn time of lasers with hitscan means great accuracy for ankle-biters who want to take a shot and turn away
-Objectively the worst weapon in the game. Recently buffed, so not wholly inferior to the ML, but we'll have to see how it fares in the meta.

Medium Laser
+Most versatile weapon in game. Good combination of traits. I run it on essentially all of my builds as the standard back-up weapon. Hard to boat as a primary due to hardpoints, but great as a secondary. Some variants can boat for high heat but great short range power.
+Great DPS/ton
+Easy to hit lights
+Weighs 1 ton, 1 slot
-Fairly short range
-Hard to boat
-Heat gets up there in larger numbers

Medium Pulse Laser
+Slightly better heat/damage than ML
+Better at fitting into limited hardpoints (e.g. CT energy slots on CN9) than ML
+Faster burn time makes it really good for concentrating damage on scouts
-Substantially worse DPS/ton than ML
-Lower range than ML
-Inferior to ML except for specialty applications

Large Laser
+LL line is only way to get laser mechanic (easy to hit) with significant damage per hardpoint, making them popular with heavies and assaults
+Good range for a laser
-Way heavier than other laser models (at 5 tons 10x the SL, 5x the ML)
-Lacks the great efficiency that characterizes other lasers

Extended Range Large Laser (ERLL)
+Popular as a pinch sniper. Tonnage cheap way to get long range damage
-On paper and by stats, a terrible weapon. The efficiency you want from a laser is not here

Large Pulse Laser
+High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability
-Really bad efficiency

Of course, use this only as an outline. Try out what weapons work for you. Stats aren't everything, as the popularity of the LL line shows. MPLs in particular have their fans, despite being kinda sub-optimal by the numbers.

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Sniper Weapons NEW!!
+ Show Spoiler +

The favored weapons of the current meta, Sniper weapons make huge sacrifices in efficiency and stats for range, and high damage per strike at that range.

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Suppression Weapons
AC/2
+A capable long range weapon with unusually good brawling capability
+Projectile speed and RoF give it a unique role as a targeting weapon: if you're leading right to hit with the AC/2, you'll land your PPC and GR shots.
+High DPS. In a long-range stand-and-fight scenario, the best weapon out there.
-Tiny damage packets mean that it is unsuited to Sniper work. Cannot duck in and out of cover, and damage tends to scatter across the target.

Large Laser and ER LL
+Longest range hitscan weapons. With burn time, makes them very accurate.
+Excellent for precision work, such as focusing down a weakened side torso, or attempting a headshot
+Great for anti-scout work at close range, for a long range weapon. Great at "sweeping the leg"
-Scattered damage
-Shorter range than the other weapons on this list

True Sniper Weapons
PPC
+Most generally useful sniper weapon, most favored weapon in current meta
+Especially when fired in groups, crazy damage per burst
+Heat limitation is mitigated if you can duck behind cover after each shot
+Remarkably fast cycle time allows serious DPS as heat allows
+Kills ECM for 3 seconds, allowing complete suppression of ECM with a single PPC and good enough shooting
-High heat, limiting usefulness in a brawl (where it's hard to find cover)
-Minimum range (damage falls of linearly from 10 at 90m to 0 at 0m) further limits usefulness in a brawl
-Draws a lot of attention fast. Flankers look for places emanating LRMs or PPC bolts as easy prey
-Large, high-heat energy weapon with projectile attack. This means that it doesn't pair great with MLs, the standard backup weapon. The synergy forces you into either SLs, MLs fired sparingly, SRMs, or SSRMs (with BAP if you don't have the heat to use PPCs to keep ECM negated)
-Boating requires insane amounts of DHS, and usually a big engine to help out. This often forces PPC boats into larger standard engines, which are really heavy

ER-PPC
+All listed for PPC
+NO MINIMUM RANGE. If you've got a good eye, you can drop scouts and flankers easily with the ER-PPC.
+Superior maximum range to PPC, among the longest in game
+No additional slots or tonnage compared to PPC
-Highest heat in game per shot, and bad efficiency to boot
-Heat exacerbates the biggest limitation of the PPC

Gauss
+Almost no heat at all
+Synergizes great with PPC or ML, for more sniper power or more backup flexibility
+Second highest damage per shot in game
+Ammo does not explode
+Does significant damage past a kilometer, and only drops off to 0 at around 2km. If you can hit it, you'll do good damage
-Ammo dependent
-Heaviest weapon in the game (mitigated by lack of heat requirements)
-Lot of slots
-Low hitpoints make it vulnerable to destruction
-Explodes for 15 damage 90% of the time on component or item destruction. In an XL 'mech or anything small, this has a decent chance of killing you outright
-Brawl with it, and prepare for a humiliating self-inflicted death

As usual, experiment to find your favorites!

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Ballistics drop off linearly to 3x effective range (the listed one). This is a notable advantage

Since it matters, here is a list of range data on long range weapons:
AC/2: ..…720……2,160
Gauss: …660……1,980 (better damage percentage than ER-PPC outside of around 1,250)
ER PPC:.810…….1,620
PPC:……540……1,080


Mech Chassis
CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.


CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
June 29 2013 08:41 GMT
#842
On June 29 2013 05:19 Yoav wrote:

A few notes:
1) Read my thing about Crit-Padding. Never put one ammo in one leg and one in the other. Put both tons in the same leg, and decrease the chance of going boom.

Wait, what about legs and stacking ammo? If you put both in one leg and lose it, you get 2 chances of an ammo explosion, if you spread it out, you only get 1 chance at an ammo explosion. Isn't it even chances since with it in both legs 100% of leggings will create the roll, but with the other one it'll roll less oftne but the chance of it being devastating is much higher?
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-29 10:45:48
June 29 2013 10:38 GMT
#843
Aaayea

1v4, atlas, yenlo 2 hunchies

headshot yen, core atlas, leg 1 hunch, core 1 hunch.

Bow to the power of the Jenner. 6 kills 2 assists.
woody60707
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1863 Posts
June 29 2013 11:38 GMT
#844
I can't wait to play these reseen mechs.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-29 15:03:22
June 29 2013 15:01 GMT
#845
On June 29 2013 17:41 CuLane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2013 05:19 Yoav wrote:

A few notes:
1) Read my thing about Crit-Padding. Never put one ammo in one leg and one in the other. Put both tons in the same leg, and decrease the chance of going boom.

Wait, what about legs and stacking ammo? If you put both in one leg and lose it, you get 2 chances of an ammo explosion, if you spread it out, you only get 1 chance at an ammo explosion. Isn't it even chances since with it in both legs 100% of leggings will create the roll, but with the other one it'll roll less oftne but the chance of it being devastating is much higher?


Ammo from legs is drained last, so a single ammo going off is usually going to just kill you outright. The mechanism of critical hits in this game means that you actually can crit pad with multiple ammo bins. Admittedly, if you get critted with a PPC, AC/10, Gauss, or AC/20, you'll lose an ammo bin in a single hit (and face the 10% roll). But any lesser weapon will only deal some amount of damage to the bins. Say you get hit by 2 MLs and they both crit once. Against a leg with 1 ammo bin, they will stack damage and kill the bin. Against a leg with 2 ammo bins, the chance is half of that, and the damage will be distributed. Note that these numbers are true of any weapon between ML and LPL damage, inclusive (because they take 2 strikes to kill ammo bins). Any weapon below ML damage will have an even more exaggerated effect.

Edit:
On June 29 2013 19:38 daemir wrote:
Aaayea

1v4, atlas, yenlo 2 hunchies

headshot yen, core atlas, leg 1 hunch, core 1 hunch.

Bow to the power of the Jenner. 6 kills 2 assists.


Majorly epic. What build?
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-29 16:31:02
June 29 2013 16:14 GMT
#846
I was leveling up a K for module slot on F, so I had 4 mediums and an AMS :D

the chat when the atlas finally went down was pretty spammy :p he took 2 of my mediums out before i managed to core his slow ass. Headshot kill on the run on the yen lo was quite epic, read a line on chat as he was coming over a hill that head low -> aim up, boom.
Sicion
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany131 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-29 19:18:18
June 29 2013 18:37 GMT
#847
I love jumpjets i dont think i can ever live without them! <3
Not enough people use Override!
I use it all the time and for easier use just rebind it to E or something else. It saved my ass more than once in brawls.
You just need to manage your heat a bit more because you can blow yourself up in front of your enemy! :D
Edit: While watching MWO videos on youtube i found myself rocking my Jenner.+ Show Spoiler +
at 3:12
There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.
woody60707
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1863 Posts
July 01 2013 02:55 GMT
#848
can you add me to the list: StingerPryde
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
July 01 2013 03:12 GMT
#849
The only jenner build ever

Jenner D
xl 300
4 medium lasers
2 srm 4s
2 tons of ammo
shit ton of heat sinks
jump jets as preferred (personally I just use 2, its enough to turn around quickly and jump over small hills)
armor as preferred once again
obv use endosteel ferro fibrous and double heat sinks

Now you pack firepower comparable to medium mechs while running way faster. Runs a little hot, but nothing thats impossible to manage.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
July 01 2013 03:23 GMT
#850
Reseen is coming to MWO?
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
July 01 2013 04:06 GMT
#851
Only jenner ever

Jenner F

XL 300
6 medium lasers
3 jumpjets
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
July 01 2013 04:08 GMT
#852
On July 01 2013 13:06 daemir wrote:
Only jenner ever

Jenner F

XL 300
6 medium lasers
3 jumpjets

not as good as missiles
missiles do way more damage
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-01 04:22:51
July 01 2013 04:12 GMT
#853
Missiles spread out the damage, 6 MLs are like surgeon's scalpel, you find a damaged spot, run around, beam it off.

besides, the missile slots are in the torso, which means they are far less accurate than 6 arm mounted lasers, especially moving at 152.7

besides, 4ml 2srm4 alpha vs 6 ml alpha is only 2points of damage in favor of the srms.
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
July 01 2013 04:25 GMT
#854
On July 01 2013 13:12 daemir wrote:
Missiles spread out the damage, 6 MLs are like surgeon's scalpel, you find a damaged spot, run around, beam it off.

besides, the missile slots are in the torso, which means they are far less accurate than 6 arm mounted lasers, especially moving at 152.7

besides, 4ml 2srm4 alpha vs 6 ml alpha is only 2points of damage in favor of the srms.

SRMs make less heat and also don't require a constant looking at the target. You just fire and they go. And no, they're plenty accurate. If you're far away from people in a jenner you're doing it wrong.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-01 04:29:56
July 01 2013 04:29 GMT
#855
Your aim will be limited by your torso twist, whereas your arms swivel in a much wider arc. You can't for example, JJ over someone's head and missile them while they are below you, something you can do with lasers. Got even a kill doing that manouver.

If you shoot a target that doesn't allow you to look at it for 1 second in a jenner, you're doing it wrong flank and backstab.
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-01 11:36:03
July 01 2013 11:29 GMT
#856
If missiles on a light it´s S-SRM's tbh to get an edge in light vs light fights. Otherwise i agree that lasers > SRM's. Hitting weakspots are the lights bread and butter and exploiting damaged parts nets you so many more kills then just spamming at someone. I just had the game of my life where i won a 1v4 doing this on my Raven 3L. 1v2:d a Cata and Jager, then a full HP atlas and a damaged BJ. Was pretty sweet with my teammates going from "just leave" to "OMG HE MIGHT ACTUALLY WIN" in chat.

[image loading]

Adrenaline was pumping like mad as i was fighting the atlas last with an orange and red leg myself. Makes me love playing a light so much more as i don´t think you can outpilot fights like that in anything but a light.

Is there any way to see MMR however? Like position on the scoreboard in a game before it starts? Just ANY way to see any indication of it? I hate games that donesn't let me know how i am doing and how i am improving, drives me crazy in dota2 aswell.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
July 01 2013 14:47 GMT
#857
On July 01 2013 20:29 unkkz wrote:
Is there any way to see MMR however? Like position on the scoreboard in a game before it starts? Just ANY way to see any indication of it? I hate games that donesn't let me know how i am doing and how i am improving, drives me crazy in dota2 aswell.


Recently, the devs indicated a ladder type thing was coming.

On July 01 2013 13:29 daemir wrote:
Your aim will be limited by your torso twist, whereas your arms swivel in a much wider arc. You can't for example, JJ over someone's head and missile them while they are below you, something you can do with lasers. Got even a kill doing that manouver.

If you shoot a target that doesn't allow you to look at it for 1 second in a jenner, you're doing it wrong flank and backstab.


This man speaks the truth. SSRMs are competitive with lasers for light v light. Lasers dominate if you plan on attacking anything of size.

--
Updated player list with the dirty, dirty Clanner.

Known TLers on MWO:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar (TL: Yoav)
Erish II (TL: daemir)
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral (TL: hp.Shell)
Unkkz
Redoxin
Aym (TL: CuLane)
Vanir (TL: Obsidian)
Black Snooty (TL: ObiWanPwnobi)
TL Tarias
MoonfireSpam
TrickyGilligan
Passive42 (TL: PassiveAce)
Hoender
Sick Ion (TL: Sicion)
StingerPryde

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab
How to Build a Stompy Robot
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

XL Engines
+ Show Spoiler +

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


Game Mechanics
Critical Slots
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard abreviations in MechWarrior/Battletech include:

H=Head (1 slot)
CT= Center Torso (2)
RT/LT= Right/Left Torso (12 standard, if XL engine, only 9)
CTR/RTR/LTR= Center/Right/Left Torso Rear (shares internals and slots with respective front section)
RL/LL= Right/Left Leg (2)
RA/LA= Right/Left Arm (slots complicated)

Slots in Arms:

10 Slots: Unarticulated Arms
Vertical Tracking only; cannot track horizontally beyond torso. Can mount more serious weaponry, such as dual UAC/5s or single AC/20s. 'Mechs with Unarticulated Arms are usually able to rotate their torsos farther than comparable 'mechs with Articulated Arms (including on the same chassis).
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Jenner
Raven
Cicada
Blackjack
CN9-YLW (hero Centurion)
Catapult
Jagermech
Stalker
HGN-733C <--Actually Minimally Articulated; 10 slots, but can traverse 10 degrees horizontally


9 Slots: Articulated Arms--No Hands
Horizontal and vertical tracking make for better aiming, particularly against faster targets. Tradeoff is less ability to mount some weapon setups.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Dragon
CTF-4X


9/8 Slots: Articulated Arms--LA Hand only
Some 'mechs have a Left Hand but no Right. When melee is implemented, they will have a good LA punch to back up their RA weapons.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Centurion (except YLW)
Trebuchet
Cataphract (except 4X)
Awesome
Highlander (733C is wierd; Minimally articulated RA, hand on LA, but both arms track together. 10/8 slots)


8 Slots: Articulated Arms--With Hands
Currently, no advantage exists to 'mechs with hands. Eventually, hands will matter in the melee system, due to be part of the Solaris expansion, a year or so out from September release. Don't hold your breath.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Commando
Spider
Hunchback
Quickdraw
Atlas


Loadout Implications of Articulation
Some examples of the kinda of loadouts that are restricted by certain arrangements of actuators. Note that several of these loadouts are possible on only a single 'mech chassis, due to hardpoint restrictions. Always use Smurfy to check out possible loadouts.

Loadouts Exclusive to Unarticulated (10 slot) Arms:
Note that XL 'mechs cannot run these loadouts in their side torsos
+ Show Spoiler +
1x AC/20
2x UAC/5
GR + PPC
AC/10+PPC
2x LRM20


Loadouts Only Possible for Handless (10 or 9 slot) Arms:
+ Show Spoiler +
UAC/5 + AC/5
3x PPC
GR + LL
AC/10+LL
LBX+PPC

Weapon Ranges
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.

Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Weapons
Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

Laser Weapons
+ Show Spoiler +

Unlike ACs, Laser weapons get more powerful as they get longer-range, though efficiency suffers. Important things to keep track of are DPS/ton and Damage/heat, which show efficiency in 'mechlab and when under high-heat conditions on the field. Energy weapons generally have superior DPS/ton to ballistics, but substantially worse damage/heat. NB: PPC line and flamers not in this Laser guide. They will appear later with their actual peers, respectively the Gauss (Sniper Weapons) and Flamer (Crit-Seekers).

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Small Laser
+Insane DPS/ton
+Insane damage/heat for an energy weapon
+Weighs .5 tons, good for filling out load-outs
-Weak individually, which means hardpoints prevent too much boating of these
-Hardpoints mean these work better on smaller mechs (which have more HP/tons)
---Piss-poor range. Like really, really bad.

Small Pulse Laser
+Shortest burn time of lasers with hitscan means great accuracy for ankle-biters who want to take a shot and turn away
-Objectively the worst weapon in the game. Recently buffed, so not wholly inferior to the ML, but we'll have to see how it fares in the meta.

Medium Laser
+Most versatile weapon in game. Good combination of traits. I run it on essentially all of my builds as the standard back-up weapon. Hard to boat as a primary due to hardpoints, but great as a secondary. Some variants can boat for high heat but great short range power.
+Great DPS/ton
+Easy to hit lights
+Weighs 1 ton, 1 slot
-Fairly short range
-Hard to boat
-Heat gets up there in larger numbers

Medium Pulse Laser
+Slightly better heat/damage than ML
+Better at fitting into limited hardpoints (e.g. CT energy slots on CN9) than ML
+Faster burn time makes it really good for concentrating damage on scouts
-Substantially worse DPS/ton than ML
-Lower range than ML
-Inferior to ML except for specialty applications

Large Laser
+LL line is only way to get laser mechanic (easy to hit) with significant damage per hardpoint, making them popular with heavies and assaults
+Good range for a laser
-Way heavier than other laser models (at 5 tons 10x the SL, 5x the ML)
-Lacks the great efficiency that characterizes other lasers

Extended Range Large Laser (ERLL)
+Popular as a pinch sniper. Tonnage cheap way to get long range damage
-On paper and by stats, a terrible weapon. The efficiency you want from a laser is not here

Large Pulse Laser
+High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability
-Really bad efficiency

Of course, use this only as an outline. Try out what weapons work for you. Stats aren't everything, as the popularity of the LL line shows. MPLs in particular have their fans, despite being kinda sub-optimal by the numbers.

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Sniper Weapons NEW!!
+ Show Spoiler +

The favored weapons of the current meta, Sniper weapons make huge sacrifices in efficiency and stats for range, and high damage per strike at that range.

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Suppression Weapons
AC/2
+A capable long range weapon with unusually good brawling capability
+Projectile speed and RoF give it a unique role as a targeting weapon: if you're leading right to hit with the AC/2, you'll land your PPC and GR shots.
+High DPS. In a long-range stand-and-fight scenario, the best weapon out there.
-Tiny damage packets mean that it is unsuited to Sniper work. Cannot duck in and out of cover, and damage tends to scatter across the target.

Large Laser and ER LL
+Longest range hitscan weapons. With burn time, makes them very accurate.
+Excellent for precision work, such as focusing down a weakened side torso, or attempting a headshot
+Great for anti-scout work at close range, for a long range weapon. Great at "sweeping the leg"
-Scattered damage
-Shorter range than the other weapons on this list

True Sniper Weapons
PPC
+Most generally useful sniper weapon, most favored weapon in current meta
+Especially when fired in groups, crazy damage per burst
+Heat limitation is mitigated if you can duck behind cover after each shot
+Remarkably fast cycle time allows serious DPS as heat allows
+Kills ECM for 3 seconds, allowing complete suppression of ECM with a single PPC and good enough shooting
-High heat, limiting usefulness in a brawl (where it's hard to find cover)
-Minimum range (damage falls of linearly from 10 at 90m to 0 at 0m) further limits usefulness in a brawl
-Draws a lot of attention fast. Flankers look for places emanating LRMs or PPC bolts as easy prey
-Large, high-heat energy weapon with projectile attack. This means that it doesn't pair great with MLs, the standard backup weapon. The synergy forces you into either SLs, MLs fired sparingly, SRMs, or SSRMs (with BAP if you don't have the heat to use PPCs to keep ECM negated)
-Boating requires insane amounts of DHS, and usually a big engine to help out. This often forces PPC boats into larger standard engines, which are really heavy

ER-PPC
+All listed for PPC
+NO MINIMUM RANGE. If you've got a good eye, you can drop scouts and flankers easily with the ER-PPC.
+Superior maximum range to PPC, among the longest in game
+No additional slots or tonnage compared to PPC
-Highest heat in game per shot, and bad efficiency to boot
-Heat exacerbates the biggest limitation of the PPC

Gauss
+Almost no heat at all
+Synergizes great with PPC or ML, for more sniper power or more backup flexibility
+Second highest damage per shot in game
+Ammo does not explode
+Does significant damage past a kilometer, and only drops off to 0 at around 2km. If you can hit it, you'll do good damage
-Ammo dependent
-Heaviest weapon in the game (mitigated by lack of heat requirements)
-Lot of slots
-Low hitpoints make it vulnerable to destruction
-Explodes for 15 damage 90% of the time on component or item destruction. In an XL 'mech or anything small, this has a decent chance of killing you outright
-Brawl with it, and prepare for a humiliating self-inflicted death

As usual, experiment to find your favorites!

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Ballistics drop off linearly to 3x effective range (the listed one). This is a notable advantage

Since it matters, here is a list of range data on long range weapons:
AC/2: ..…720……2,160
Gauss: …660……1,980 (better damage percentage than ER-PPC outside of around 1,250)
ER PPC:.810…….1,620
PPC:……540……1,080


Mech Chassis
CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.

MoonfireSpam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1153 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-01 22:25:35
July 01 2013 22:24 GMT
#858
Feel like Seismic sensors has ended my poor Jenner. 400m radar kinda ruins my flanking day. I have however now traded to ECM Cicada with 3LL or 2PPC (kinda playing around with which I prefer) to stay outside of 400M. Heat penalties on the hardpoints seem a bit harsh though.

Do agree that SSRMs are nice for light vs light. Until ECM.

Just can't sink that much moneys into the mechs, no matter how cools.
CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
July 02 2013 02:26 GMT
#859
Hey guys! Monday Marik Madness is a go on NGNG right now!
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
July 02 2013 07:27 GMT
#860
On July 02 2013 11:26 CuLane wrote:
Hey guys! Monday Marik Madness is a go on NGNG right now!


What is this madness you speak off?
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