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MechWarrior Online (New) - Page 42

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PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 14:28:37
June 28 2013 14:27 GMT
#821
I finished my Jenner and Iv been having a lot of fun with it, and now im starting to plan my next mech and I was looking for some advice. I was hoping to find a heavy chassis that could fill a variety of roles without forcing me to buy a new engine (I have a 300xl). I was trying to find a chassis that I could loadout with indirect fire support or more direct heavy brawling if I choose, hopefully without requiring a new engine because those are really expensive T_T. I was looking at something like a Jagermech or a Cataphract but I dont know if the engine I have is appropriate for those.
Could you guys give me some advice on what I should get if im looking for a versatile heavy chassis that could make do with the 300 xl engine I have?
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
June 28 2013 14:38 GMT
#822
On June 28 2013 23:27 PassiveAce wrote:
I finished my Jenner and Iv been having a lot of fun with it, and now im starting to plan my next mech and I was looking for some advice. I was hoping to find a heavy chassis that could fill a variety of roles without forcing me to buy a new engine (I have a 300xl). I was trying to find a chassis that I could loadout with indirect fire support or more direct heavy brawling if I choose, hopefully without requiring a new engine because those are really expensive T_T. I was looking at something like a Jagermech or a Cataphract but I dont know if the engine I have is appropriate for those.
Could you guys give me some advice on what I should get if im looking for a versatile heavy chassis that could make do with the 300 xl engine I have?

Any heavy works with a 300xl engine. Again what kind of mech you want very much dpends on your own preferences.
Just go to http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ and see what builds you can do with the respective mechs, and which one you like.

Keep in mind that for some builds on heavy mechs (especially brawlers) you only want a normal engine. These are quite inexpensive anyway so you can always buy the one you need.
Off-season = best season
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 28 2013 15:16 GMT
#823
On June 28 2013 23:38 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 23:27 PassiveAce wrote:
I finished my Jenner and Iv been having a lot of fun with it, and now im starting to plan my next mech and I was looking for some advice. I was hoping to find a heavy chassis that could fill a variety of roles without forcing me to buy a new engine (I have a 300xl). I was trying to find a chassis that I could loadout with indirect fire support or more direct heavy brawling if I choose, hopefully without requiring a new engine because those are really expensive T_T. I was looking at something like a Jagermech or a Cataphract but I dont know if the engine I have is appropriate for those.
Could you guys give me some advice on what I should get if im looking for a versatile heavy chassis that could make do with the 300 xl engine I have?

Any heavy works with a 300xl engine. Again what kind of mech you want very much dpends on your own preferences.
Just go to http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ and see what builds you can do with the respective mechs, and which one you like.

Keep in mind that for some builds on heavy mechs (especially brawlers) you only want a normal engine. These are quite inexpensive anyway so you can always buy the one you need.


I haven't gotten to try out the Quickdraw yet (or really play much of any MWO in the last 2 weeks thanks to work.) Is it XL-safe? For Jagermechs, I conceptually prefer the STD, but run an XL in most of my builds because of the utility of the added space. DHS are the huge slot hog in this game, so ballistic configurations usually skew toward too little weight and too many slots, at least for me.

---
Anybody not yet on the TLer list? I still have to add a few of you when I next get online.

Also, I cannot wait for my Battlemaster. It's the preferred command 'mech for Davion (although a lot of notables use Victors), so it's a major potential ride for me, despite my preference for mediums. (I know they're gimped. But I play more for fun than super seriously anyway... SC is more for powergaming).

Really curious about the whole Loyalty point system. Could make putting those Davion banners in my 'mech a more attractive option (they made them pretty in a recent patch, but you can still barely see them in most 'mechs, and usually only with Free-Look). I would also love a faction specific list of 'mechs that get increased LP generation. But that's just coming from this Davion who loves Centurions and Jagermechs...


Known TLers on MWO:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar (TL: Yoav)
Erish II (TL: daemir)
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral (TL: hp.Shell)
Unkkz
Redoxin
Aym (TL: CuLane)
Vanir (TL: Obsidian)
Black Snooty (TL: ObiWanPwnobi)
Tarias
MoonfireSpam
TrickyGilligan

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab Basics
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.



Slots and You!
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard abreviations in MechWarrior/Battletech include:

H=Head (1 slot)
CT= Center Torso (2)
RT/LT= Right/Left Torso (12 standard, if XL engine, only 9)
CTR/RTR/LTR= Center/Right/Left Torso Rear (shares internals and slots with respective front section)
RL/LL= Right/Left Leg (2)
RA/LA= Right/Left Arm (slots complicated)

Slots in Arms:

10 Slots: Unarticulated Arms
Vertical Tracking only; cannot track horizontally beyond torso. Can mount more serious weaponry, such as dual UAC/5s or single AC/20s. 'Mechs with Unarticulated Arms are usually able to rotate their torsos farther than comparable 'mechs with Articulated Arms (including on the same chassis).
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Jenner
Raven
Cicada
Blackjack
CN9-YLW (hero Centurion)
Catapult
Jagermech
Stalker
HGN-733C <--Actually Minimally Articulated; 10 slots, but can traverse 10 degrees horizontally


9 Slots: Articulated Arms--No Hands
Horizontal and vertical tracking make for better aiming, particularly against faster targets. Tradeoff is less ability to mount some weapon setups.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Dragon
CTF-4X


9/8 Slots: Articulated Arms--LA Hand only
Some 'mechs have a Left Hand but no Right. When melee is implemented, they will have a good LA punch to back up their RA weapons.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Centurion (except YLW)
Trebuchet
Cataphract (except 4X)
Awesome
Highlander (733C is wierd; Minimally articulated RA, hand on LA, but both arms track together. 10/8 slots)


8 Slots: Articulated Arms--With Hands
Currently, no advantage exists to 'mechs with hands. Eventually, hands will matter in the melee system, due to be part of the Solaris expansion, a year or so out from September release. Don't hold your breath.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Commando
Spider
Hunchback
Quickdraw
Atlas


Loadout Implications of Articulation
Some examples of the kinda of loadouts that are restricted by certain arrangements of actuators. Note that several of these loadouts are possible on only a single 'mech chassis, due to hardpoint restrictions. Always use Smurfy to check out possible loadouts.

Loadouts Exclusive to Unarticulated (10 slot) Arms:
Note that XL 'mechs cannot run these loadouts in their side torsos
+ Show Spoiler +
1x AC/20
2x UAC/5
GR + PPC
AC/10+PPC
2x LRM20


Loadouts Only Possible for Handless (10 or 9 slot) Arms:
+ Show Spoiler +
UAC/5 + AC/5
3x PPC
GR + LL
AC/10+LL
LBX+PPC


Weapon Ranges and You
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.


Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Critical Hits

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Understanding Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

Understanding Autocannons
All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)


PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 15:28:01
June 28 2013 15:18 GMT
#824
yeah add me im Passive42
Yoav, you should put your laser guide into that spoiler
this one + Show Spoiler +
On June 18 2013 01:31 Yoav wrote:
Okay, my list of TLers on MWO so far:

Khanahar
Erish
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral

----------

Understanding Laser Weapons

Unlike ACs, Laser weapons get more powerful as they get longer-range, though efficiency suffers. Important things to keep track of are DPS/ton and Damage/heat, which show efficiency in 'mechlab and when under high-heat conditions on the field. Energy weapons generally have superior DPS/ton to ballistics, but substantially worse damage/heat. NB: PPC line and flamers not in this Laser guide. They will appear later with their actual peers, respectively the Gauss (Sniper Weapons) and Flamer (Crit-Seekers).

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Small Laser
+Insane DPS/ton
+Insane damage/heat for an energy weapon
+Weighs .5 tons, good for filling out load-outs
-Weak individually, which means hardpoints prevent too much boating of these
-Hardpoints mean these work better on smaller mechs (which have more HP/tons)
---Piss-poor range. Like really, really bad.

Small Pulse Laser
+Shortest burn time of lasers with hitscan means great accuracy for ankle-biters who want to take a shot and turn away
-Objectively the worst weapon in the game. Other than burn time, no advantage over the ML, and several disadvantages

Medium Laser
+Most versatile weapon in game. Good combination of traits. I run it on essentially all of my builds as the standard back-up weapon. Hard to boat as a primary, but great as a secondary.
+Great DPS/ton
+Easy to hit lights
+Weighs 1 ton, 1 slot
-Fairly short range
-Hard to boat
-Heat gets up there in larger numbers

Medium Pulse Laser
+Slightly better heat/damage than ML
+Better at fitting into limited hardpoints (e.g. CT energy slots on CN9) than ML
+Faster burn time makes it really good for concentrating damage on scouts
-Substantially worse DPS/ton than ML
-Lower range than ML
-Inferior to ML except for specialty applications

Large Laser
+LL line is only way to get laser mechanic (easy to hit) with significant damage per hardpoint, making them popular with heavies and assaults
+Good range for a laser
-Way heavier than other laser models (at 5 tons 10x the SL, 5x the ML)
-Lacks the great efficiency that characterizes other lasers

Extended Range Large Laser (ERLL)
+Popular as a pinch sniper. Tonnage cheap way to get long range damage
-On paper and by stats, a terrible weapon. The efficiency you want from a laser is not here

Large Pulse Laser
+High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability
-Really bad efficiency

Of course, use this only as an outline. Try out what weapons work for you. Stats aren't everything, as the popularity of the LL line shows. MPLs in particular have their fans, despite being kinda sub-optimal by the numbers.

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Other Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab Basics
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.



Weapon Ranges and You
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.


Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Critical Hits

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Understanding Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

Understanding Autocannons
All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)



I cant emphasize enough how awesome those guides are
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Tarias
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands480 Posts
June 28 2013 15:41 GMT
#825
On June 29 2013 00:16 Yoav wrote:

Anybody not yet on the TLer list? I still have to add a few of you when I next get online.




I'm in the list but you got my nickname wrong, I'm "TL Tarias" in MWO, not just Tarias.
Go big, or go home!
Hoender
Profile Joined March 2011
South Africa381 Posts
June 28 2013 15:49 GMT
#826
Add me as well please! Nick: Hoender
Die ou swepe sê: "daar's 'n raat vir elke kwaal," maar watse pil kou jy as die donker jou kom haal?
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 28 2013 15:55 GMT
#827
@Passive:
Thanks so much! I don't have nearly enough time to play, but I have a good brain for geeking out on this stuff, and it's great to have a place where it's useful. Can't wait for the "mentoring" they've promised eventually... I've already taught a few folks to play and I'd love to be more helpful. I'm no ace at this game a la our leaderboard scorers, but it's fun to contribute how I can.

Laser guide added (not quite sure how it got misplaced), good catch on that.

Player list updated.

Known TLers on MWO:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar (TL: Yoav)
Erish II (TL: daemir)
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral (TL: hp.Shell)
Unkkz
Redoxin
Aym (TL: CuLane)
Vanir (TL: Obsidian)
Black Snooty (TL: ObiWanPwnobi)
TL Tarias
MoonfireSpam
TrickyGilligan
Passive42 (TL: PassiveAce)
Hoender

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab Basics
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.



Slots and You!
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard abreviations in MechWarrior/Battletech include:

H=Head (1 slot)
CT= Center Torso (2)
RT/LT= Right/Left Torso (12 standard, if XL engine, only 9)
CTR/RTR/LTR= Center/Right/Left Torso Rear (shares internals and slots with respective front section)
RL/LL= Right/Left Leg (2)
RA/LA= Right/Left Arm (slots complicated)

Slots in Arms:

10 Slots: Unarticulated Arms
Vertical Tracking only; cannot track horizontally beyond torso. Can mount more serious weaponry, such as dual UAC/5s or single AC/20s. 'Mechs with Unarticulated Arms are usually able to rotate their torsos farther than comparable 'mechs with Articulated Arms (including on the same chassis).
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Jenner
Raven
Cicada
Blackjack
CN9-YLW (hero Centurion)
Catapult
Jagermech
Stalker
HGN-733C <--Actually Minimally Articulated; 10 slots, but can traverse 10 degrees horizontally


9 Slots: Articulated Arms--No Hands
Horizontal and vertical tracking make for better aiming, particularly against faster targets. Tradeoff is less ability to mount some weapon setups.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Dragon
CTF-4X


9/8 Slots: Articulated Arms--LA Hand only
Some 'mechs have a Left Hand but no Right. When melee is implemented, they will have a good LA punch to back up their RA weapons.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Centurion (except YLW)
Trebuchet
Cataphract (except 4X)
Awesome
Highlander (733C is wierd; Minimally articulated RA, hand on LA, but both arms track together. 10/8 slots)


8 Slots: Articulated Arms--With Hands
Currently, no advantage exists to 'mechs with hands. Eventually, hands will matter in the melee system, due to be part of the Solaris expansion, a year or so out from September release. Don't hold your breath.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Commando
Spider
Hunchback
Quickdraw
Atlas


Loadout Implications of Articulation
Some examples of the kinda of loadouts that are restricted by certain arrangements of actuators. Note that several of these loadouts are possible on only a single 'mech chassis, due to hardpoint restrictions. Always use Smurfy to check out possible loadouts.

Loadouts Exclusive to Unarticulated (10 slot) Arms:
Note that XL 'mechs cannot run these loadouts in their side torsos
+ Show Spoiler +
1x AC/20
2x UAC/5
GR + PPC
AC/10+PPC
2x LRM20


Loadouts Only Possible for Handless (10 or 9 slot) Arms:
+ Show Spoiler +
UAC/5 + AC/5
3x PPC
GR + LL
AC/10+LL
LBX+PPC


Weapon Ranges and You
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.


Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Critical Hits

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Understanding Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

Understanding Autocannons
All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

Understanding Laser Weapons
+ Show Spoiler +
Unlike ACs, Laser weapons get more powerful as they get longer-range, though efficiency suffers. Important things to keep track of are DPS/ton and Damage/heat, which show efficiency in 'mechlab and when under high-heat conditions on the field. Energy weapons generally have superior DPS/ton to ballistics, but substantially worse damage/heat. NB: PPC line and flamers not in this Laser guide. They will appear later with their actual peers, respectively the Gauss (Sniper Weapons) and Flamer (Crit-Seekers).

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Small Laser
+Insane DPS/ton
+Insane damage/heat for an energy weapon
+Weighs .5 tons, good for filling out load-outs
-Weak individually, which means hardpoints prevent too much boating of these
-Hardpoints mean these work better on smaller mechs (which have more HP/tons)
---Piss-poor range. Like really, really bad.

Small Pulse Laser
+Shortest burn time of lasers with hitscan means great accuracy for ankle-biters who want to take a shot and turn away
-Objectively the worst weapon in the game. Recently buffed, so not wholly inferior to the ML, but we'll have to see how it fares in the meta.

Medium Laser
+Most versatile weapon in game. Good combination of traits. I run it on essentially all of my builds as the standard back-up weapon. Hard to boat as a primary due to hardpoints, but great as a secondary. Some variants can boat for high heat but great short range power.
+Great DPS/ton
+Easy to hit lights
+Weighs 1 ton, 1 slot
-Fairly short range
-Hard to boat
-Heat gets up there in larger numbers

Medium Pulse Laser
+Slightly better heat/damage than ML
+Better at fitting into limited hardpoints (e.g. CT energy slots on CN9) than ML
+Faster burn time makes it really good for concentrating damage on scouts
-Substantially worse DPS/ton than ML
-Lower range than ML
-Inferior to ML except for specialty applications

Large Laser
+LL line is only way to get laser mechanic (easy to hit) with significant damage per hardpoint, making them popular with heavies and assaults
+Good range for a laser
-Way heavier than other laser models (at 5 tons 10x the SL, 5x the ML)
-Lacks the great efficiency that characterizes other lasers

Extended Range Large Laser (ERLL)
+Popular as a pinch sniper. Tonnage cheap way to get long range damage
-On paper and by stats, a terrible weapon. The efficiency you want from a laser is not here

Large Pulse Laser
+High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability
-Really bad efficiency

Of course, use this only as an outline. Try out what weapons work for you. Stats aren't everything, as the popularity of the LL line shows. MPLs in particular have their fans, despite being kinda sub-optimal by the numbers.

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)



Sicion
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany131 Posts
June 28 2013 16:09 GMT
#828
You can add me too: Sick Ion
For anyone that is intrested here are some guides about survival and light mech play.
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuSEx14KUGM
www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=1460.0
www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=634.0
www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=907.0
www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=76.0
There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
June 28 2013 16:26 GMT
#829
On June 29 2013 00:16 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 23:38 Redox wrote:
On June 28 2013 23:27 PassiveAce wrote:
I finished my Jenner and Iv been having a lot of fun with it, and now im starting to plan my next mech and I was looking for some advice. I was hoping to find a heavy chassis that could fill a variety of roles without forcing me to buy a new engine (I have a 300xl). I was trying to find a chassis that I could loadout with indirect fire support or more direct heavy brawling if I choose, hopefully without requiring a new engine because those are really expensive T_T. I was looking at something like a Jagermech or a Cataphract but I dont know if the engine I have is appropriate for those.
Could you guys give me some advice on what I should get if im looking for a versatile heavy chassis that could make do with the 300 xl engine I have?

Any heavy works with a 300xl engine. Again what kind of mech you want very much dpends on your own preferences.
Just go to http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ and see what builds you can do with the respective mechs, and which one you like.

Keep in mind that for some builds on heavy mechs (especially brawlers) you only want a normal engine. These are quite inexpensive anyway so you can always buy the one you need.


I haven't gotten to try out the Quickdraw yet (or really play much of any MWO in the last 2 weeks thanks to work.) Is it XL-safe?

Have not tried that either, and I would be interested in the same thing. Anyone sharing experiences regarding the side torsos on the Qucikdraw would be appreciated.

Although fom shooting them I would say the side torsos are fairly easy to hit. Maybe comparable to Jägermech.
Off-season = best season
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 16:57:53
June 28 2013 16:56 GMT
#830
Guide on Sniper Weapons added! I double-booked the LL/ERLL and AC/2 here and listed strengths and weaknesses as they apply to comparison with the PPC line and Gauss. If I get drunk sometime, might even add the AC/5, which I've seen used as a suppression/sniper weapon. Formatting cleaned up a bit in the guides as well.

Player list updated.

Known TLers on MWO:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar (TL: Yoav)
Erish II (TL: daemir)
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral (TL: hp.Shell)
Unkkz
Redoxin
Aym (TL: CuLane)
Vanir (TL: Obsidian)
Black Snooty (TL: ObiWanPwnobi)
TL Tarias
MoonfireSpam
TrickyGilligan
Passive42 (TL: PassiveAce)
Hoender
Sick Ion (TL: Sicion)

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab
How to Build a Stompy Robot
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1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

XL Engines
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Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


Game Mechanics
Critical Slots
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Standard abreviations in MechWarrior/Battletech include:

H=Head (1 slot)
CT= Center Torso (2)
RT/LT= Right/Left Torso (12 standard, if XL engine, only 9)
CTR/RTR/LTR= Center/Right/Left Torso Rear (shares internals and slots with respective front section)
RL/LL= Right/Left Leg (2)
RA/LA= Right/Left Arm (slots complicated)

Slots in Arms:

10 Slots: Unarticulated Arms
Vertical Tracking only; cannot track horizontally beyond torso. Can mount more serious weaponry, such as dual UAC/5s or single AC/20s. 'Mechs with Unarticulated Arms are usually able to rotate their torsos farther than comparable 'mechs with Articulated Arms (including on the same chassis).
Mechs:
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Jenner
Raven
Cicada
Blackjack
CN9-YLW (hero Centurion)
Catapult
Jagermech
Stalker
HGN-733C <--Actually Minimally Articulated; 10 slots, but can traverse 10 degrees horizontally


9 Slots: Articulated Arms--No Hands
Horizontal and vertical tracking make for better aiming, particularly against faster targets. Tradeoff is less ability to mount some weapon setups.
Mechs:
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Dragon
CTF-4X


9/8 Slots: Articulated Arms--LA Hand only
Some 'mechs have a Left Hand but no Right. When melee is implemented, they will have a good LA punch to back up their RA weapons.
Mechs:
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Centurion (except YLW)
Trebuchet
Cataphract (except 4X)
Awesome
Highlander (733C is wierd; Minimally articulated RA, hand on LA, but both arms track together. 10/8 slots)


8 Slots: Articulated Arms--With Hands
Currently, no advantage exists to 'mechs with hands. Eventually, hands will matter in the melee system, due to be part of the Solaris expansion, a year or so out from September release. Don't hold your breath.
Mechs:
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Commando
Spider
Hunchback
Quickdraw
Atlas


Loadout Implications of Articulation
Some examples of the kinda of loadouts that are restricted by certain arrangements of actuators. Note that several of these loadouts are possible on only a single 'mech chassis, due to hardpoint restrictions. Always use Smurfy to check out possible loadouts.

Loadouts Exclusive to Unarticulated (10 slot) Arms:
Note that XL 'mechs cannot run these loadouts in their side torsos
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1x AC/20
2x UAC/5
GR + PPC
AC/10+PPC
2x LRM20


Loadouts Only Possible for Handless (10 or 9 slot) Arms:
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UAC/5 + AC/5
3x PPC
GR + LL
AC/10+LL
LBX+PPC

Weapon Ranges
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All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.

Critical Hits
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In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Weapons
Autocannons
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All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

Laser Weapons
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Unlike ACs, Laser weapons get more powerful as they get longer-range, though efficiency suffers. Important things to keep track of are DPS/ton and Damage/heat, which show efficiency in 'mechlab and when under high-heat conditions on the field. Energy weapons generally have superior DPS/ton to ballistics, but substantially worse damage/heat. NB: PPC line and flamers not in this Laser guide. They will appear later with their actual peers, respectively the Gauss (Sniper Weapons) and Flamer (Crit-Seekers).

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Small Laser
+Insane DPS/ton
+Insane damage/heat for an energy weapon
+Weighs .5 tons, good for filling out load-outs
-Weak individually, which means hardpoints prevent too much boating of these
-Hardpoints mean these work better on smaller mechs (which have more HP/tons)
---Piss-poor range. Like really, really bad.

Small Pulse Laser
+Shortest burn time of lasers with hitscan means great accuracy for ankle-biters who want to take a shot and turn away
-Objectively the worst weapon in the game. Recently buffed, so not wholly inferior to the ML, but we'll have to see how it fares in the meta.

Medium Laser
+Most versatile weapon in game. Good combination of traits. I run it on essentially all of my builds as the standard back-up weapon. Hard to boat as a primary due to hardpoints, but great as a secondary. Some variants can boat for high heat but great short range power.
+Great DPS/ton
+Easy to hit lights
+Weighs 1 ton, 1 slot
-Fairly short range
-Hard to boat
-Heat gets up there in larger numbers

Medium Pulse Laser
+Slightly better heat/damage than ML
+Better at fitting into limited hardpoints (e.g. CT energy slots on CN9) than ML
+Faster burn time makes it really good for concentrating damage on scouts
-Substantially worse DPS/ton than ML
-Lower range than ML
-Inferior to ML except for specialty applications

Large Laser
+LL line is only way to get laser mechanic (easy to hit) with significant damage per hardpoint, making them popular with heavies and assaults
+Good range for a laser
-Way heavier than other laser models (at 5 tons 10x the SL, 5x the ML)
-Lacks the great efficiency that characterizes other lasers

Extended Range Large Laser (ERLL)
+Popular as a pinch sniper. Tonnage cheap way to get long range damage
-On paper and by stats, a terrible weapon. The efficiency you want from a laser is not here

Large Pulse Laser
+High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability
-Really bad efficiency

Of course, use this only as an outline. Try out what weapons work for you. Stats aren't everything, as the popularity of the LL line shows. MPLs in particular have their fans, despite being kinda sub-optimal by the numbers.

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Sniper Weapons NEW!!
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The favored weapons of the current meta, Sniper weapons make huge sacrifices in efficiency and stats for range, and high damage per strike at that range.

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Suppression Weapons
AC/2
+A capable long range weapon with unusually good brawling capability
+Projectile speed and RoF give it a unique role as a targeting weapon: if you're leading right to hit with the AC/2, you'll land your PPC and GR shots.
+High DPS. In a long-range stand-and-fight scenario, the best weapon out there.
-Tiny damage packets mean that it is unsuited to Sniper work. Cannot duck in and out of cover, and damage tends to scatter across the target.

Large Laser and ER LL
+Longest range hitscan weapons. With burn time, makes them very accurate.
+Excellent for precision work, such as focusing down a weakened side torso, or attempting a headshot
+Great for anti-scout work at close range, for a long range weapon. Great at "sweeping the leg"
-Scattered damage
-Shorter range than the other weapons on this list

True Sniper Weapons
PPC
+Most generally useful sniper weapon, most favored weapon in current meta
+Especially when fired in groups, crazy damage per burst
+Heat limitation is mitigated if you can duck behind cover after each shot
+Remarkably fast cycle time allows serious DPS as heat allows
+Kills ECM for 3 seconds, allowing complete suppression of ECM with a single PPC and good enough shooting
-High heat, limiting usefulness in a brawl (where it's hard to find cover)
-Minimum range (damage falls of linearly from 10 at 90m to 0 at 0m) further limits usefulness in a brawl
-Draws a lot of attention fast. Flankers look for places emanating LRMs or PPC bolts as easy prey
-Large, high-heat energy weapon with projectile attack. This means that it doesn't pair great with MLs, the standard backup weapon. The synergy forces you into either SLs, MLs fired sparingly, SRMs, or SSRMs (with BAP if you don't have the heat to use PPCs to keep ECM negated)
-Boating requires insane amounts of DHS, and usually a big engine to help out. This often forces PPC boats into larger standard engines, which are really heavy

ER-PPC
+All listed for PPC
+NO MINIMUM RANGE. If you've got a good eye, you can drop scouts and flankers easily with the ER-PPC.
+Superior maximum range to PPC, among the longest in game
+No additional slots or tonnage compared to PPC
-Highest heat in game per shot, and bad efficiency to boot
-Heat exacerbates the biggest limitation of the PPC

Gauss
+Almost no heat at all
+Synergizes great with PPC or ML, for more sniper power or more backup flexibility
+Second highest damage per shot in game
+Ammo does not explode
+Does significant damage past a kilometer, and only drops off to 0 at around 2km. If you can hit it, you'll do good damage
-Ammo dependent
-Heaviest weapon in the game (mitigated by lack of heat requirements)
-Lot of slots
-Low hitpoints make it vulnerable to destruction
-Explodes for 15 damage 90% of the time on component or item destruction. In an XL 'mech or anything small, this has a decent chance of killing you outright
-Brawl with it, and prepare for a humiliating self-inflicted death

As usual, experiment to find your favorites!

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Ballistics drop off linearly to 3x effective range (the listed one). This is a notable advantage

Since it matters, here is a list of range data on long range weapons:
AC/2: ..…720……2,160
Gauss: …660……1,980 (better damage percentage than ER-PPC outside of around 1,250)
ER PPC:.810…….1,620
PPC:……540……1,080


Mech Chassis
CN9 Builds
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With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.

daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 17:56:58
June 28 2013 17:56 GMT
#831
Well you can almost put UAC5 in the sniper weapon list, it also reaches out all the way to 1800 and deals respectable damage, although if you plan to use it that way, bring more backup ammo. Good side is that if you "snipe" with it, you don't have to care so much about jams, as you can just hide during it like PPCs hide while cooling.

e: macroUAC5warriors can burn in hell
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 28 2013 18:37 GMT
#832
On June 29 2013 02:56 daemir wrote:
Well you can almost put UAC5 in the sniper weapon list, it also reaches out all the way to 1800 and deals respectable damage, although if you plan to use it that way, bring more backup ammo. Good side is that if you "snipe" with it, you don't have to care so much about jams, as you can just hide during it like PPCs hide while cooling.

e: macroUAC5warriors can burn in hell


It's a fair point. I may revise the guide to "long range weapons" and throw in everything that hits out to 1000m+. Then the suppression category can more directly stand contrasted with the sniper category, although the AC/5 and UAC/5 are probably hybrid weapons. My lancemate does a lot of switching roles with his 4 AC/5 CTF-4X, as do many of us with 3UAC/5 Jagermechs.

I'm going to hold off on making a guide to Crit-Seekers like the Flamer, MG, and LB-10X for right now... I'm still skeptical of the utility of all three, though progressive buffs may make them eventually useful. It would be intriguing if the MG in particular ended up as a viable backup weapon for PPC builds.

Next set of guides will probably Battlefield Roles, as I feel I've spent a fair bit of time using terms like Flanker, Sniper, Brawler, etc. without really defining them and spelling out which 'mechs fit those archetypes. Given how common the "Which First Mech" question is, that should really be a priority.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
June 28 2013 19:20 GMT
#833
The only use for flamers I can see is if you have a real wolfpack that all pack 1 or 2 so the effect adds up on the target they hound. If only one mech in a team carries them, they are pointless other than the slight GFX blinding effect on the enemy cockpit.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 19:41:20
June 28 2013 19:36 GMT
#834
So iv been messing around in the mechlab with a JM6-S trying to make it fill the two roles that I want to try out next, long range indirect fire "sniper," and closer range heavy dps machine. I came up with one sniper build and two versions of the brawler and I wanted your guys opinions on them if you don't mind . The sniper has two ppc's and two ac/2s + Show Spoiler +
sniper

I came up with two brawler type things and I couldnt decide between them, one is more bursty with a ac20, 2 LL's and 2 ML's:
+ Show Spoiler +
Brawler

While the other one is just as much dps as I could pack into that thing, which as far as I could gather is as many ac2's as I can fit: + Show Spoiler +
Brawler Alternate

They all have an XL300 engine because thats what I have atm, I imagine that if im going to be up close in engagements then I might want a standard engine on the brawlers. Please tell me what horrible noob mistakes I have made here, thank you .

edit- I didnt bother balancing front/back armor ratio, just ignore it
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 20:03:55
June 28 2013 19:58 GMT
#835
All these builds are not too good imo, but I guess that is partly because you are restricted to this engine.

The first build is ok, but its maybe a little too much heat. At least I would go for Ac5 instead of the Ac2. You can get rid of leg armor, 1 ton of armor and 2 heat sinks to get the 4 tons needed for switchign to Ac5s.

The second build clearly generates too much heat, this is too much Laser. :D
And I would go for a normal engine on a brawler.

On the Ac2 build I would try to add another Ac2. Get rid of some armor (mainly at the legs) and heat sinks for that.
Off-season = best season
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 20:19:50
June 28 2013 20:01 GMT
#836
If you got XL, I wouldn't go brawling.

here is a quad AC2 build I use, with xl300 engine
legs is a good place to shave if you need to, I don't think I've ever died to legging, it's always a torso that blows. Lights do NOT want to brawl you, you rip their pieces off so fast with quad ac2.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 28 2013 20:19 GMT
#837
On June 29 2013 04:36 PassiveAce wrote:
So iv been messing around in the mechlab with a JM6-S trying to make it fill the two roles that I want to try out next, long range indirect fire "sniper," and closer range heavy dps machine. I came up with one sniper build and two versions of the brawler and I wanted your guys opinions on them if you don't mind . The sniper has two ppc's and two ac/2s + Show Spoiler +
sniper

I came up with two brawler type things and I couldnt decide between them, one is more bursty with a ac20, 2 LL's and 2 ML's:
+ Show Spoiler +
Brawler

While the other one is just as much dps as I could pack into that thing, which as far as I could gather is as many ac2's as I can fit: + Show Spoiler +
Brawler Alternate

They all have an XL300 engine because thats what I have atm, I imagine that if im going to be up close in engagements then I might want a standard engine on the brawlers. Please tell me what horrible noob mistakes I have made here, thank you .

edit- I didnt bother balancing front/back armor ratio, just ignore it


A few notes:
1) Read my thing about Crit-Padding. Never put one ammo in one leg and one in the other. Put both tons in the same leg, and decrease the chance of going boom.
2) Its a Jagermech. Lose half of your arm armor... you won't get them blown off that often.
3) If you can get ammo out of the legs entirely, you can substantially increase available weight by reducing armor there.


On the "Sniper:"
This is, to my eyes, the best one here, Crit-Padding issues aside. Switching to AC/5s is probably a good idea. I played around with FF, which gives weight but reduces versatility, as most builds won't allow it. I'd keep standard armor.

Brawler 1
This 'mech is interesting, and I'd be curious how it plays. My suspiscion, however, is that it is role-confused. Also, you can get 2 more DHS in if you reduce armor as in my points 2 and 3.

Brawler 2 (actually a suppression 'mech)
Severely undergunned and over-ammoed. 4 AC/2s is a minimum for this kind of thing, and is probably too little. The on-paper DPS of AC/2s is great, but they scatter damage like no other. I'm actually moderately successful in a version of this concept that has 2 AC/2s, 2 UAC/5s, and 2 SL. The UAC/5s keep heat down and it all rocks the enemy like crazy. 2 SL is a useful backup for the inevitable point where you run dry on ammo. Of course, I had to make sacrifices in heat and armor to make this work. But its role is to chainsaw through enemy 'mechs quickly before getting torn apart. Be careful against any kind of skilled sniper.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 21:13:48
June 28 2013 20:22 GMT
#838
I would do this build with the xl 300: 2 Ac2, 2 Ac5

I have not tried it myself though. So in the end you have to test stuff yourself and do what you like best. It is not too expensive to try out different weapons after all.

edit:
For a brawler build I would do something like this: brawler

Though I dont like a brawler Jäger too much for various reasons.

Of course you can also do the double Ac20 Jägermech. That one is surely good but you need a smaller xl engine for it.


On a third thought, you can still do the double ac20 with the xl300. double Ac20
This might actually be the best build although its lame as hell.
Off-season = best season
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 28 2013 22:24 GMT
#839
On June 29 2013 05:22 Redox wrote:
On a third thought, you can still do the double ac20 with the xl300. double Ac20
This might actually be the best build although its lame as hell.


I have one that I break out when on tilt. Like 6-pooling out of frustration. Much better than nerdrage.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-28 22:32:32
June 28 2013 22:29 GMT
#840
Thanks for the criticism guys, it's all really helpful to me

I'm gonna keep tweaking them around with your suggestions and il come back at you guys.

I really REALLY appreciate your help everyone! : )))
edit- if you guys are thinking of a better chassis for what im trying to accomplish here, id love to hear it
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
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