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MechWarrior Online (New) - Page 40

Forum Index > General Games
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daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
June 24 2013 14:46 GMT
#781
Yea I got 1 engine for 5 mechs that I own so far, an XL 300. It's super efficient buy.

Didn't try out the mix AC build, I loved my ac2 dakkas too much for hitting stuff at range. I messed around with dual AC20 a bit, but not really my style.
CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
June 24 2013 15:54 GMT
#782
They're all right, the 300 is a MUCH more versatile engine than the 270. Furthermore in your littel Jenny you won't have the critical slots to really use the difference in weight. There's a thing about Engines and heat sinks from battletech. An engine can hold 1 heat sink (regular OR double) for every time 25 can be divided into it's rating. So a 250 engine holds 10 heat sinks. Anything over 250 (again with whole 25's) can hold an additional heat sink. So the hypothecial 270 still only holds 10 heat sinks, but a 275 holds 11, and a 300 holds 12. That's a big difference with double heat sinks, it adds up to 6 free critical slots in your mech. That's one of the big reasons why every mech wants a larger engine than it starts with, is getting extra Double Heat Sinks into the engine.
Obsidian
Profile Joined June 2010
United States350 Posts
June 24 2013 18:28 GMT
#783
Is it just me or are Double Heat sinks nowhere near as potent as they ought to be? I thought they were supposed to be 2 heat sinks for the weight of one, and the space of three. An odd balance, but it works.

The messages ingame though, seem to imply that they are only about 1.3-1.4x more effective than normal heat sinks.
Luke, you are still a wanker!
RuFF_SC2
Profile Joined February 2010
United States203 Posts
June 24 2013 19:49 GMT
#784
I already reserved my MWO copy, though SC2 seems to pull all my attention with streaming and competing. I am a huge fan of the MW series and have attempted to master each game. Guess you guys could say this is all I did before SC2 came out, that and Guildwars.



Little fun video of me playing. If you guys like this stuff, I do the same stuff in SC2 all the time. :D
Eat My Metal Foot Mech-Head
TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
June 24 2013 20:36 GMT
#785
On June 25 2013 03:28 Obsidian wrote:
Is it just me or are Double Heat sinks nowhere near as potent as they ought to be? I thought they were supposed to be 2 heat sinks for the weight of one, and the space of three. An odd balance, but it works.

The messages ingame though, seem to imply that they are only about 1.3-1.4x more effective than normal heat sinks.


It's pretty weird how they have it set up, but you are mostly right.

Each engine comes with heatsinks, usually somewhere around 10. When you switch your mech from singles to doubles, your engine DHS work as the tabletop ones, they are actually 2x. Any additional heatsinks you add on to your mech over the engine ones are only 1.4 as the tooltip says.

So, what it boils down to is that DHS are always worth it just for the engine bonus. There's already no reason to equip single heatsinks unless you're broke, even with the semi-nerfed doubles. Also, it benefits smaller mechs a huge amount, since they don't have room for much more than the engine heatsinks.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
June 25 2013 08:10 GMT
#786
Getting double heatsinks on my Raven 3L was night and day. I can fight forever without overheating which is very very nice when you are running around a heavier mech taking pot shots.

Has there been any word on clan mechs btw? Need myself a madcat or a Loki/Hellbringer.
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
June 25 2013 08:14 GMT
#787
Getting double heatsinks on my Raven 3L was night and day. I can fight forever without overheating which is very very nice when you are running around a heavier mech taking pot shots.

Has there been any word on clan mechs btw? Need myself a madcat or a Loki/Hellbringer.
MoonfireSpam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1153 Posts
June 25 2013 11:25 GMT
#788
Don't think anything has been announced yet. Will be interesting to see how they manage to do it without making all the IS tech obsolete.
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
June 25 2013 12:07 GMT
#789
On June 25 2013 20:25 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Don't think anything has been announced yet. Will be interesting to see how they manage to do it without making all the IS tech obsolete.


Well they don´t have to include clan weapons tech, just the mechs. What made clan stuff superior afaik is the simple fact that their weapons are just tons better. Weigh less, some do more dmg etc. In Mech Commander IS ER PPC does 10 dmg and weights i think 15 tons. The clan version does 13 dmg, weighs 13.5 tons.
CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
June 25 2013 13:21 GMT
#790
They're just not going to have Clan tech be like the table top. It'll be different, not better, they know they can't balance it if it's like table top. Also, with double basic efficiencies (heat cap/dissipation) DHS are effectively 2.0, but of course single heat sinks would be 1.3 or so.

Unkz, Mech commander's stats are way off of table top, and are probably still not a good representation of what to expect in MWO.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
June 25 2013 14:01 GMT
#791
Yea well for one, mechcommander didn't have heat at all.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 25 2013 18:13 GMT
#792
On June 25 2013 23:01 daemir wrote:
Yea well for one, mechcommander didn't have heat at all.

In MC, heat was represented by tonnage being increased for heat sinks. MC2 had heat, but it was borked to hell (all 'mechs had way too much heat capacity).

I sure hope they leave Clantech OP, restrict it to the Clans, and have some reason why you would ever want to be a part of the IS.

It's slated to arrive next spring.
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 19:18:27
June 25 2013 19:16 GMT
#793
So a bunch of new mechs introduced via some pre-order stuff. Doesn´t look too exciting but time will tell. 1 from each weight class. http://mwomercs.com/phoenix the Locust doesn´t look that great tbh.
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
June 25 2013 19:26 GMT
#794
On June 26 2013 03:13 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 25 2013 23:01 daemir wrote:
Yea well for one, mechcommander didn't have heat at all.

In MC, heat was represented by tonnage being increased for heat sinks. MC2 had heat, but it was borked to hell (all 'mechs had way too much heat capacity).

I sure hope they leave Clantech OP, restrict it to the Clans, and have some reason why you would ever want to be a part of the IS.

It's slated to arrive next spring.


I don't see any way for anyone not to go clan if they introduce clan tech tbh

Anyone have any good suggestions for a nice brawler mech or LRM whoring? I like my Raven 3L and im done with the XP there, PPC sniping wasn't my cup of tea but i haven´t tried gauss boating however i doubt the playstyle is all that different. Got 14mil to burn!
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 20:21:00
June 25 2013 20:18 GMT
#795
Good mother of God...

Project Phoenix Mechs!

It's bloody Christmas come early! Come take my money!

Edit:
For anyone who doesn't know why this is a huge deal, these 'mechs are all "re-seen." They were lost in a copyright battle for complex reasons involving some designs FASA thought it had rights to distribute, but then lost those rights. Anyway, we've all assumed forever that the Unseen/Reseen would never be in MWO! I'll write more later, but this is so freaking cool!
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
June 25 2013 20:21 GMT
#796
What the heck is the locust gonna do in this game? 20 tons? Gets 1 hit by a single ac20, let alone all the ac40, 4/5/6 ppc boats? What am I missing here?...Not even jumpjets on the variant the stats are given for.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 25 2013 20:47 GMT
#797
On June 26 2013 05:21 daemir wrote:
What the heck is the locust gonna do in this game? 20 tons? Gets 1 hit by a single ac20, let alone all the ac40, 4/5/6 ppc boats? What am I missing here?...Not even jumpjets on the variant the stats are given for.


But it's a fracking Locust.

(Also, the Flea is 20 tons too. Better tonnage balancing is in the works, which will make it good for your team to have some underweight mechs.)
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 21:06:13
June 25 2013 21:03 GMT
#798
On June 26 2013 04:16 unkkz wrote:
So a bunch of new mechs introduced via some pre-order stuff. Doesn´t look too exciting but time will tell. 1 from each weight class. http://mwomercs.com/phoenix the Locust doesn´t look that great tbh.


Locust isn't that useful... very similar to the upcoming Flea. Fast on the ground, which is about it. It's okay, it'll be a novelty 'mech like the Spider.

On June 26 2013 04:26 unkkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 03:13 Yoav wrote:

I sure hope they leave Clantech OP, restrict it to the Clans, and have some reason why you would ever want to be a part of the IS.

It's slated to arrive next spring.


I don't see any way for anyone not to go clan if they introduce clan tech tbh

Anyone have any good suggestions for a nice brawler mech or LRM whoring? I like my Raven 3L and im done with the XP there, PPC sniping wasn't my cup of tea but i haven´t tried gauss boating however i doubt the playstyle is all that different. Got 14mil to burn!


For Clantech: There are lots of ways they could make it work. Restrict IS to IS tech, Clanners to Clantech, allowing each account to have a Clan and IS avatar. Then make it so Clan matches cost "honor," a resource shared between both avatars that is earned for winning matches. Have it so you have to play 4-6 games as IS to get the honor for one Clan game. Clanners can increase their honor winnings by playing according to the rules of Zellbringen. Actual matches should be balance 5v12, but with Clanners having a higher average tonnage per 'mech.

For Mechs: Centurion. A real man's 'mech. Really fun to play, and you really feel like you earned your kills.

Known TLers on MWO:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar (TL: Yoav)
Erish II (TL: daemir)
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral (TL: hp.Shell)
Unkkz
Redoxin
Aym (TL: CuLane)
Vanir (TL: Obsidian)
Black Snooty (TL: ObiWanPwnobi)
Tarias
MoonfireSpam
TrickyGilligan

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab Basics
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.



Slots and You!
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard abreviations in MechWarrior/Battletech include:

H=Head (1 slot)
CT= Center Torso (2)
RT/LT= Right/Left Torso (12 standard, if XL engine, only 9)
CTR/RTR/LTR= Center/Right/Left Torso Rear (shares internals and slots with respective front section)
RL/LL= Right/Left Leg (2)
RA/LA= Right/Left Arm (slots complicated)

Slots in Arms:

10 Slots: Unarticulated Arms
Vertical Tracking only; cannot track horizontally beyond torso. Can mount more serious weaponry, such as dual UAC/5s or single AC/20s. 'Mechs with Unarticulated Arms are usually able to rotate their torsos farther than comparable 'mechs with Articulated Arms (including on the same chassis).
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Jenner
Raven
Cicada
Blackjack
CN9-YLW (hero Centurion)
Catapult
Jagermech
Stalker
HGN-733C <--Actually Minimally Articulated; 10 slots, but can traverse 10 degrees horizontally


9 Slots: Articulated Arms--No Hands
Horizontal and vertical tracking make for better aiming, particularly against faster targets. Tradeoff is less ability to mount some weapon setups.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Dragon
CTF-4X


9/8 Slots: Articulated Arms--LA Hand only
Some 'mechs have a Left Hand but no Right. When melee is implemented, they will have a good LA punch to back up their RA weapons.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Centurion (except YLW)
Trebuchet
Cataphract (except 4X)
Awesome
Highlander (733C is wierd; Minimally articulated RA, hand on LA, but both arms track together. 10/8 slots)


8 Slots: Articulated Arms--With Hands
Currently, no advantage exists to 'mechs with hands. Eventually, hands will matter in the melee system, due to be part of the Solaris expansion, a year or so out from September release. Don't hold your breath.
Mechs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Commando
Spider
Hunchback
Quickdraw
Atlas


Loadout Implications of Articulation
Some examples of the kinda of loadouts that are restricted by certain arrangements of actuators. Note that several of these loadouts are possible on only a single 'mech chassis, due to hardpoint restrictions. Always use Smurfy to check out possible loadouts.

Loadouts Exclusive to Unarticulated (10 slot) Arms:
Note that XL 'mechs cannot run these loadouts in their side torsos
+ Show Spoiler +
1x AC/20
2x UAC/5
GR + PPC
AC/10+PPC
2x LRM20


Loadouts Only Possible for Handless (10 or 9 slot) Arms:
+ Show Spoiler +
UAC/5 + AC/5
3x PPC
GR + LL
AC/10+LL
LBX+PPC


Weapon Ranges and You
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.


Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Critical Hits

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Understanding Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

Understanding Autocannons
All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
June 26 2013 01:36 GMT
#799
I sincerely hope clantech is different, not better, otherwise it'll be too hard to balance for this team.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-26 04:44:16
June 26 2013 04:43 GMT
#800
On June 26 2013 10:36 CuLane wrote:
I sincerely hope clantech is different, not better, otherwise it'll be too hard to balance for this team.


They know exactly how balance it.

Give it ridiculous upkeep/maintenance costs, while technically leaving it "free" if you play clan one game in 20, and then let people pay MC to use it every game.

Not pay-to-win, guys, we swear.
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