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Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 17:20:55
June 17 2013 16:31 GMT
#681
Okay, my list of TLers on MWO so far:

Khanahar
Erish
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral

----------

Understanding Laser Weapons

Unlike ACs, Laser weapons get more powerful as they get longer-range, though efficiency suffers. Important things to keep track of are DPS/ton and Damage/heat, which show efficiency in 'mechlab and when under high-heat conditions on the field. Energy weapons generally have superior DPS/ton to ballistics, but substantially worse damage/heat. NB: PPC line and flamers not in this Laser guide. They will appear later with their actual peers, respectively the Gauss (Sniper Weapons) and Flamer (Crit-Seekers).

The below listed by increasing weight and heat


Small Laser
+Insane DPS/ton
+Insane damage/heat for an energy weapon
+Weighs .5 tons, good for filling out load-outs
-Weak individually, which means hardpoints prevent too much boating of these
-Hardpoints mean these work better on smaller mechs (which have more HP/tons)
---Piss-poor range. Like really, really bad.

Small Pulse Laser
+Shortest burn time of lasers with hitscan means great accuracy for ankle-biters who want to take a shot and turn away
-Objectively the worst weapon in the game. Other than burn time, no advantage over the ML, and several disadvantages

Medium Laser
+Most versatile weapon in game. Good combination of traits. I run it on essentially all of my builds as the standard back-up weapon. Hard to boat as a primary, but great as a secondary.
+Great DPS/ton
+Easy to hit lights
+Weighs 1 ton, 1 slot
-Fairly short range
-Hard to boat
-Heat gets up there in larger numbers

Medium Pulse Laser
+Slightly better heat/damage than ML
+Better at fitting into limited hardpoints (e.g. CT energy slots on CN9) than ML
+Faster burn time makes it really good for concentrating damage on scouts
-Substantially worse DPS/ton than ML
-Lower range than ML
-Inferior to ML except for specialty applications

Large Laser
+LL line is only way to get laser mechanic (easy to hit) with significant damage per hardpoint, making them popular with heavies and assaults
+Good range for a laser
-Way heavier than other laser models (at 5 tons 10x the SL, 5x the ML)
-Lacks the great efficiency that characterizes other lasers

Extended Range Large Laser (ERLL)
+Popular as a pinch sniper. Tonnage cheap way to get long range damage
-On paper and by stats, a terrible weapon. The efficiency you want from a laser is not here

Large Pulse Laser
+High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability
-Really bad efficiency

Of course, use this only as an outline. Try out what weapons work for you. Stats aren't everything, as the popularity of the LL line shows. MPLs in particular have their fans, despite being kinda sub-optimal by the numbers.

Oh, and remember that each energy weapon still does damage out to almost 2x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though, which decreases heat efficiency)

Other Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab Basics
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.



Weapon Ranges and You
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.


Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Critical Hits

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Understanding Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

Understanding Autocannons
All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 19:02:51
June 17 2013 19:01 GMT
#682
Can add me to the list: Unkkz new player going for ravens atm and i am frustrated as fuck with public play. Never get any damn backup. Also whats the deal with S-SRM's? Why are they soooo good? Have an ECM S-SRM raven and well... they ain´t that great tbh. SRM-6's aint that hard to hit and do tons more dmg.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
June 17 2013 19:33 GMT
#683
On June 18 2013 01:31 Yoav wrote:
Large Pulse Laser
+High damage with short burn and hitscan. Good for assault 'mechs looking for scout-hunting capability
-Really bad efficiency

Erm the LPL is the second most heat efficient energy weapon in the game (after the small Laser). Or do you mean weight efficiency?

Btw you can add me to the list as well. MWO name is Redoxin.
Off-season = best season
CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
June 17 2013 19:36 GMT
#684
LPL Is about a 1:1 damage per heat, that's bad. PPC's, MLas, SLas, LLas, all do better damage per heat, that's what he's saying about the efficiency. The damage per ton isn't great either.

Sorry about the Marik TS, I forgot it's "hidden" you just have to sign up on the site to see it, it's to keep spammers and greifers out.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 20:54:06
June 17 2013 20:49 GMT
#685
On June 18 2013 04:36 CuLane wrote:
LPL Is about a 1:1 damage per heat, that's bad. PPC's, MLas, SLas, LLas, all do better damage per heat, that's what he's saying about the efficiency. The damage per ton isn't great either.


Yep. ML and SL are beastly efficient in the key categories (DPS/tonnage and D/heat). LL line substantially less so, but they trade that for range and power per hardpoint (which is why you see them a lot on bigger 'mechs.)

There's actually going to be a balance pass next patch (tomorrow), which may change my opinion on SPLs and/or LPLs, but it's too early to see. The efficiency numbers for lasers as they will be after that patch are:

Name...DPS/ton...D/heat

SL.....2.00...1.50
SPL...1.09...1.42

ML.....1.25...1.25
MPL...0.80...1.20

LL......0.42...1.29
LPL....0.36...1.25
ELL....0.42...0.95

Note the massive drop in weight efficiency and slight drop in heat efficiency moving to the LL line.

List of TLers on MWO updated below (I'll just be adding this like a sig to my posts in this thread to tell people to sign up. If the OP could add it there, that would be cool too.)

Known TLers on MWO so far:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar
Erish
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral
Unkkz
Redoxin

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab Basics
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.



Weapon Ranges and You
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.


Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Critical Hits

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Understanding Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

Understanding Autocannons
All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
June 17 2013 20:52 GMT
#686
On June 18 2013 04:36 CuLane wrote:
LPL Is about a 1:1 damage per heat, that's bad. PPC's, MLas, SLas, LLas, all do better damage per heat, that's what he's saying about the efficiency. The damage per ton isn't great either.

Sorry about the Marik TS, I forgot it's "hidden" you just have to sign up on the site to see it, it's to keep spammers and greifers out.


Yea funny thing about that, the "hidden" forum sticky actually points NGNG coz theirs was waiting for resubbing, and when that came back up, there's no longer mention of the original marik IP in the topic :D
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 21:29:10
June 17 2013 21:20 GMT
#687
On June 18 2013 04:36 CuLane wrote:
LPL Is about a 1:1 damage per heat, that's bad. PPC's, MLas, SLas, LLas, all do better damage per heat, that's what he's saying about the efficiency. The damage per ton isn't great either.

Wtf. No it does not. It does 10 damage for 7.3 heat. That is more damage per heat than all other enery weapons, except Slas.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_beam

Name...DPS/ton...D/heat

SL.....2.00...1.50
SPL...1.09...1.42

ML.....1.25...1.25
MPL...0.80...1.20

LL......0.42...1.29
LPL....0.36...1.25
ELL....0.42...0.95

Your heat numbers for SPL and LPL are wrong. LPL is 1.37 and SPL is 1.0, making the LPL the second most efficient.

Your numbers are from an earlier patch. Thats why people stopped using the SPL.
Off-season = best season
rwrzr
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1980 Posts
June 17 2013 22:24 GMT
#688
How much money should i bank before committing to a mech?
FADC
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
June 17 2013 22:27 GMT
#689
On June 18 2013 07:24 rwrzr wrote:
How much money should i bank before committing to a mech?

As soon as you know which mech you want and have the money for it. You dont get any experience for trial mechs, so just play an owned mech even if you cant equip it yet like you want.
Off-season = best season
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 22:52:33
June 17 2013 22:38 GMT
#690
On June 18 2013 06:20 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2013 04:36 CuLane wrote:
LPL Is about a 1:1 damage per heat, that's bad. PPC's, MLas, SLas, LLas, all do better damage per heat, that's what he's saying about the efficiency. The damage per ton isn't great either.

Wtf. No it does not. It does 10 damage for 7.3 heat. That is more damage per heat than all other enery weapons, except Slas.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_beam

Show nested quote +
Name...DPS/ton...D/heat

SL.....2.00...1.50
SPL...1.09...1.42

ML.....1.25...1.25
MPL...0.80...1.20

LL......0.42...1.29
LPL....0.36...1.25
ELL....0.42...0.95

Your heat numbers for SPL and LPL are wrong. LPL is 1.37 and SPL is 1.0, making the LPL the second most efficient.

Your numbers are from an earlier patch. Thats why people stopped using the SPL.


I'll check again, but I believe my numbers are correct for Tuesday's patch, which adjusts those two weapons according to the Command Chair post linked:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/122300-gameplay-update-june-112013/

Edit:
Also, when I say the LL line has low efficiencies, I'm mostly talking about the weight efficiency. An LPL is 7 tons, 14 times an SL and the same as a PPC. It remains a good weapon in terms of its subjective values (great for pinch scout hunting on big 'mechs), but it is not the most useful weapon in the game.
Vagabond
Profile Joined April 2011
Scotland149 Posts
June 17 2013 22:49 GMT
#691
On June 18 2013 07:24 rwrzr wrote:
How much money should i bank before committing to a mech?

Just remember the price of the mech and 1.5 million on top of the price for Double heat sinks.

The only think i am looking forward to tomorrow is the Netcode fixes hopefully it will help with the Balistics issue that some times they don't register sometimes if they hit. they also said that HSR is still needing tweeked. The Quickdraw is just a Big Torso so don't put a XL in it (Not going to touch it, not a fan of 60 ton mechs, also the fact they canned the Orion for 4 months to being this "Fits the current meta" Mech in.) Oh well just a month off the 80 ton Victor as stock 64 KPH Ac20 carrying mech :D.
Drone untill i die.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 17 2013 22:56 GMT
#692
On June 18 2013 07:49 Vagabond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2013 07:24 rwrzr wrote:
How much money should i bank before committing to a mech?

Just remember the price of the mech and 1.5 million on top of the price for Double heat sinks.

The only think i am looking forward to tomorrow is the Netcode fixes hopefully it will help with the Balistics issue that some times they don't register sometimes if they hit. they also said that HSR is still needing tweeked. The Quickdraw is just a Big Torso so don't put a XL in it (Not going to touch it, not a fan of 60 ton mechs, also the fact they canned the Orion for 4 months to being this "Fits the current meta" Mech in.) Oh well just a month off the 80 ton Victor as stock 64 KPH Ac20 carrying mech :D.


And Endo Steel for most anything below assault class. And any necessary engine upgrades. Though DHS is certainly by far the most important.

On the Quickdraw, we'll have to see on the hitboxes. If the CT is huge like the Dragon or Catapult (and from the pics it might be), XL will actually be mandatory. If it's boxed like a Raven or Stalker, it'll be another story.

For current hitboxes, check out this:
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/96395-guide-hit-box-localisation/
Vagabond
Profile Joined April 2011
Scotland149 Posts
June 17 2013 23:04 GMT
#693
On June 18 2013 07:56 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2013 07:49 Vagabond wrote:
On June 18 2013 07:24 rwrzr wrote:
How much money should i bank before committing to a mech?

Just remember the price of the mech and 1.5 million on top of the price for Double heat sinks.

The only think i am looking forward to tomorrow is the Netcode fixes hopefully it will help with the Balistics issue that some times they don't register sometimes if they hit. they also said that HSR is still needing tweeked. The Quickdraw is just a Big Torso so don't put a XL in it (Not going to touch it, not a fan of 60 ton mechs, also the fact they canned the Orion for 4 months to being this "Fits the current meta" Mech in.) Oh well just a month off the 80 ton Victor as stock 64 KPH Ac20 carrying mech :D.


And Endo Steel for most anything below assault class. And any necessary engine upgrades. Though DHS is certainly by far the most important.

On the Quickdraw, we'll have to see on the hitboxes. If the CT is huge like the Dragon or Catapult (and from the pics it might be), XL will actually be mandatory. If it's boxed like a Raven or Stalker, it'll be another story.

For current hitboxes, check out this:
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/96395-guide-hit-box-localisation/

From the Looks of the model it will have the same issues as the Highlander has with a big CT hitbox, but the Side torso are huge on the QD as well from a certain Picture from MWO's site that was posted on to /r/MWO
https://static.mwomercs.com/img/gallery/8445D76F3CC9A1221A465FB917090F77.jpg
Also the offical video of the DQ was just released on youtube.
Drone untill i die.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 23:19:59
June 17 2013 23:19 GMT
#694
On June 18 2013 07:38 Yoav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2013 06:20 Redox wrote:
On June 18 2013 04:36 CuLane wrote:
LPL Is about a 1:1 damage per heat, that's bad. PPC's, MLas, SLas, LLas, all do better damage per heat, that's what he's saying about the efficiency. The damage per ton isn't great either.

Wtf. No it does not. It does 10 damage for 7.3 heat. That is more damage per heat than all other enery weapons, except Slas.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_beam

Name...DPS/ton...D/heat

SL.....2.00...1.50
SPL...1.09...1.42

ML.....1.25...1.25
MPL...0.80...1.20

LL......0.42...1.29
LPL....0.36...1.25
ELL....0.42...0.95

Your heat numbers for SPL and LPL are wrong. LPL is 1.37 and SPL is 1.0, making the LPL the second most efficient.

Your numbers are from an earlier patch. Thats why people stopped using the SPL.


I'll check again, but I believe my numbers are correct for Tuesday's patch, which adjusts those two weapons according to the Command Chair post linked:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/122300-gameplay-update-june-112013/

Very interesting, didnt see that yet. Seems like we were both half right.
Right now the numbers are as i said, but with the next patch they will be as you wrote.

I always look at smurfy-net to get the current numbers because they update it directly from the game files.
Off-season = best season
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
June 17 2013 23:33 GMT
#695
On June 18 2013 08:19 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2013 07:38 Yoav wrote:
On June 18 2013 06:20 Redox wrote:
On June 18 2013 04:36 CuLane wrote:
LPL Is about a 1:1 damage per heat, that's bad. PPC's, MLas, SLas, LLas, all do better damage per heat, that's what he's saying about the efficiency. The damage per ton isn't great either.

Wtf. No it does not. It does 10 damage for 7.3 heat. That is more damage per heat than all other enery weapons, except Slas.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#weapon_beam

Name...DPS/ton...D/heat

SL.....2.00...1.50
SPL...1.09...1.42

ML.....1.25...1.25
MPL...0.80...1.20

LL......0.42...1.29
LPL....0.36...1.25
ELL....0.42...0.95

Your heat numbers for SPL and LPL are wrong. LPL is 1.37 and SPL is 1.0, making the LPL the second most efficient.

Your numbers are from an earlier patch. Thats why people stopped using the SPL.


I'll check again, but I believe my numbers are correct for Tuesday's patch, which adjusts those two weapons according to the Command Chair post linked:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/122300-gameplay-update-june-112013/

Very interesting, didnt see that yet. Seems like we were both half right.
Right now the numbers are as i said, but with the next patch they will be as you wrote.

I always look at smurfy-net to get the current numbers because they update it directly from the game files.


Yep. I actually almost posted (or maybe I even did and then edited? can't remember) the smurfy numbers. Know I ran them in Open Office. Then I remembered reading the balance post and thought it would be less useful to give the old numbers. But I see where you were coming from.

I kinda hope this'll get the SPL in a better spot, but we'll see. It's kinda been the read-beamed stepchild of the laser family for a long while.

In response to above, the QKD does look a little hitbox-screwed. And the upcoming cap on boating alphas may hurt the laser variant as well. But we haven't had a lot of zippy heavies since the Dragon fell out of favor, so we'll see.
CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
June 18 2013 00:53 GMT
#696
Hey guys, Marik Monday Madness is getting underway. If you want to have some good hearted fun and interact with a lot of different members of the MWO community come on out!
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 02:13:56
June 18 2013 02:09 GMT
#697
Just added all the known TLers. Erish, is your in-game name Erish II? For everyone else, if you haven't been friended by me (Khanahar), then check the spelling of your name in the running list, which appears below.

[Edit: Just checked and Daemir said earlier he had Erish and Erish II reserved... Do you want both names on the list?]

Also, remember to run 'mechs that abuse newly introduced 'mechs. In this case, Quickdraw killers are recommended. Any heavy brawler ought to do the trick.

Known TLers on MWO:
+ Show Spoiler +

Khanahar
Erish
Rwrzr
MeatLoaf
Raddmiral
Unkkz
Redoxin

Some Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

New Player Quick-List
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Use the local Champion 'mech. It'll be the trial 'mech with a (c ) after its name..
2. Stick with your team at all times, no matter what, unless you're leading 2:1 or more. And usually even then.
3. Try to always shoot at something other people are shooting at.
4. Generally, aim for center body mass. If you have FPS/Mechwarrior experience, try legging lights and zippy mediums.
5. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
6. Read other guides here and on the MWO forums!


Mechlab Basics
+ Show Spoiler +

1. Always get faster engine than stock
2. Always max armor
-No exceptions for lights. But for mediums/heavies/assaults, only 3/4 or 1/2 armor on legs is ok
-Front/Back ratio should be 2:1 for scouts, 3:1 for most builds, and 4:1 for snipers
3. Always get Double Heat Sinks (DHS)
4. Usually get Endo Steel
5. Almost never get Ferro Fibrous, unless you have everything else you want and need more slots. It doesn't increase your armor cap, just slightly reduces your weight.
6. XL engines vary by 'mech. They are expensive, so get a 300XL and use it for everything that can fit it (swap it around, dont' sell it. only a handful of 'mechs can't take it.) With an XL, you die if you lose a side torso, but the XL is much lighter than the standard.

Good Mechs for an XL:
Any light: Commando, Jenner, Spider, Raven
Faster mediums: Cicada, Trebuchets
Big 'mechs with small side torsos: Catapult, Dragon
Bad Mechs for an XL:
Atlas, Awesome, Stalker (deceptively large side torsos)
Build Dependent Mechs:
Centurion:
SRM focused should get fast XL--note: cannot fit 300 except in CN9-D
AC/Laser focused should get fast Standard
Cataphract, Jagermech
Really better not to go XL, but some builds, like the 2xAC/20 Jager, require it for function.


CN9 Builds
+ Show Spoiler +

With Centurions, you really get to pick from 2 options:

1) AC-based
Right arm cannon, backed up by CT lasers and streaks (the latter to fend off scouts). Uncommonly feature LRMs, but this is sub-optimal.

2) SRM-based
No cannon, but using multiple large SRM-packs. 3x6 is possible. Occasionally uses XL engine, particularly in CN9-D variant.

Be aware that these go for the A, D, and YLW variants. The AL is a different beast and can be set up as a scout hunter (lasers and streaks) or pinch sniper (2xPPCs in RA).

Never use a CN9 with a <250 engine rating. Max engine rating is preferable.

ZOMBIE CENTURIONS:
Cn9s can be really good "zombie 'mechs." This means they can limp around the battlefield on one leg, both side torsos and attached arms destroyed, and still put out respectable damage after the enemy has decided you aren't worth focusing on. This is because of (1) good hitboxes that soak damage and (2) all variants can pack 2 ML or MPL in the center torso, giving you moderate DPS way after you should be dead. The best zombie is actually the hero CN9-YLW, because it has superior torso twist to compensate for now having elbows. Mechs with XL engines obviously cannot zombie.



Weapon Ranges and You
+ Show Spoiler +

All energy weapons in the game do max damage between 0 and [listed range] meters, then drop off linearly to do 0 damage at 2x[listed range].

All ballistic weapons are the same, but only drop off to 0 at 3x listed range (giving them better range per listed number, though they compensate with lower acuracy).

Missile weapons just blow up at listed max range, doing no damage. LRMs have a 180m arming range.


Critical Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Critical Hits

In MechWarrior, MechCommander, or the board game version, Battletech, critical hits are one of the most important systems to understand. It is also one of the most misunderstood. This is how the MWO version works.

See those "slots" in the 'mechlab? Every Arm and Torso segment has 12, and every Head and Leg has 6, no matter what the 'mech is (a Commando at 25 tons and an Atlas at 100 have the same number of slots).

Some of those are filled by "built-in" equipment like engines, gyros, the cockpit, various actuators (joints). As of right now, these cannot take critical damage. This may change later on. The "dynamic slots" added by Endo or Ferro (never get Ferro before Endo) cannot take critical hits, and never will. CASE ammo storage cannot take critical damage.

Everything else on your 'mech can take critical damage: heat sinks, weapons, electronics, ammunition.

Your 'mech is protected by armor plating and internal structure. On your 'mech doll in the HUD, internal structure is the filling, and the armor is the shell. Critical hits cannot currently go through armor, so a mech segment (a component) is safe from critical hits while armored.

However, when the armor is stripped off a component on your 'mech, the items inside become vulnerable. Luckily, most shots won't do any critical damage; they'll just hurt your internal structure and increase the chance of that component being destroyed. However, 42% of shots will do damage to both your internal structure and some items in the component. The amount of damage dealt is based on weapon damage, according to the below:
58% of the time, no critical damage.
25% chance 1x weapon damage, dealt to a random available critical slot in the component.
14% chance 2x weapon damage, dealt in packets like the above to 2 random available critical slots (can be the same one)
3% chance 3x weapon damage.

A few special weapons deal extra critical damage. Break these out against exposed internals. They are the Machine Gun, Flamer, and LB 10-X AC. Be aware that the MG and Flamer are underpowered due to being essentially only good at this. Debate exists on the LBX (shotgun autocannon).
Special critical values
33% 0 crits
33% 1 crit
28% 2 crits
6% 3 crits

Most items have 10 HP, and will be destroyed upon accumulating 10 damage. Gauss Rifles and ECMs are particularly fragile. AC/20s are particularly durable... but this is offset by their large slot count, meaning they are likely to take crit hits.

Destroyed items do not work, and ammo bins have a 10% chance of detonation on being destroyed, leading to a happy pop-pop-pop that will shell the poor 'mech unless the explosion is vented by a CASE system. CASE will not protect the side torso it is in, but will prevent the damage from going on to kill the center torso. Damage will naturally progress toward the center of a 'mech, from Arm or Leg to Side Torso to Center Torso. Passing each barrier reduces damage by 50%.

Gauss Rifles also have a 90% chance of detonation, and do 20 damage. Gauss Rifle ammo itself is inert. When a component with a Gauss Rifle or Ammo Bin are destroyed (regularly, not critical damage) they still have the same chance to go up in smoke. Crits just make it happen earlier.

Implications of Critical Hit System
Scoring Critical Hits
Your best bet to score good critical hits is just to hammer weakened body parts. Anything packing a Gauss Rifle is a juicy target. LBXs are good at this, but so are any weapon with a high enough damage value that a single crit will destroy a component. These include PPCs, AC10s, Gauss Rifles, and AC/20s.

Defending against Critical Hits
Don't get shot. Also, "crit pad."

Crit Padding is when you make use of the "damage is dealt to a random hittable location" mechanic. If you have a Gauss Rifle as the only thing in a component, when the component takes a single AC/10 hit, you have a 38% chance of having a real bad day. If, however, you throw in a Double Heat sink and 2 tons of Gauss Ammo, you have a little more than half that chance. Whenever you have something explosive in a segment, try not to leave any empty slots there. And if you use Gauss, you really should use CASE.


Understanding Autocannons
+ Show Spoiler +

Understanding Autocannons
All ACs have about 150 damage per ton of ammo. This means a single AC type for the 'mech will need 3-5 tons. If you have 2 types of AC, each needs 1-3 tons.

The below listed by increasing weight


AC/2:
+Long range,
+Excellent DPS per tonnage
+Rocks the enemy like a wagonwheel
+High projectile speed
-Terrible heat/damage ratio (for a ballistic... similar to missiles but still better than lasers)
-Damage scattered all over target
-Need lots of ammo due to damage inefficency

AC/5:
+Can be useful due to lowish weight and ability to aim shots
+Most heat efficient AC, so good if tight on heat and spare on tons
~Only useful if extremely skilled and using as direct fire support (high RoF sniper)
-Low DPS
-Sucks


UAC/5:
+Absurd DPS
+Best noise in game
~Generally similar pros and cons to AC/2. Pairs well with it.
-Biggest ammo-hog in game
-Jams make firepower unreliable. Best used if cover available to hid during jams. But boated, can just stand ground and press trigger.

LB10-X AC:
+Scattershot
+Good if you can't hit things
++Bonus to crit damage
+Lightish for job
-Scattershot
-Limited range
-Low striking power, DPS

AC/10:
+Biggest AC that can fit on arms with lower actuators (elbows, which allow horizontal arm articulation)
+Most versitile weapon in game except ML, with which it pairs nicely
+Style points
~Basically a bigger AC/5. Shorter range, more concentrated damage
-Generally better to trade up to AC/20, though you lose range
-Lowish DPS

AC20:
+20 f*ckin' points of m*therf*ckin' damage per hit
+2 head hits drops any 'mech in game (pairing these on a Jagermech or Cat K2 is often a good idea). Means auto-kill on Catapults that let you get to close range if you can nail your shots.
+High damage and low RoF great for popping in and out of cover
+Efficient kills mean you KS a lot, and use relatively little ammo. (Flipside: can't use damage score for E-Peening)
-Really easy to lose to critical hits
-Low projectile velocity and RoF means you have to be on top of your shots
-Really heavy
-Can't mount in a torso if have XL engine
-Can't mount in the arm of a 'mech with lower arm actuators (see note for AC/10).

Mechs that can mount an AC/20 in their arms:
Highlander 733C
Jagermech (all can mount 1 in each arm... result of using both is the dreaded "Jagerbomb")
Centurion YLW (Hero variant)
Raven 4X

Any 'mech with a ballistic hardpoint in the torso can mount an AC/20, but many are ill advised to use XL engines.

All of this said, try different weapons out and see what works for you. I love AC/10s, despite them being the 2nd weakest AC. My lancemate is even crazier: he uses a 4 AC/5 Cataphract 4X. Does amazing with it. Really nails his shots, because the AC/5 cooldown gives him a moment to line each up and fire with clicks rather than mashing. Each volley hits like an AC/20, and can reach out really far. But it's a very difficult build to pull off unless you really have a lot of faith in your ability to keep hitting the legs of jumping 'mechs at 1000m.

Oh, and remember that each ballistic still does damage out to almost 3x its max listed range! (Linearly less from it though.)

daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
June 18 2013 02:55 GMT
#698
im playing on Erish II atm
CuLane
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
June 18 2013 11:29 GMT
#699
Erish added me in game, ty btw, I'm Aym.

Also, sorry for the MMM fail tonight, my mic seems to be broken on my headset.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 12:57:38
June 18 2013 12:53 GMT
#700
I still have no clue on the marik ts, but i had some good fun on ngng one yesterday.

ok found someone replying to an introduction post with the info, but you guys might wanna look into putting the info back on the stickied TS topic
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