EPTNHL 2011-2012 Season - Page 40
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Kralic
Canada2628 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On February 28 2012 14:10 Sub40APM wrote: What was Nash bringing to the table to Columbus before this incident? The same dead last place? Oh no, instead of finishing 26th we will finish 30th because Nash wont contribute anymore. The only play Nash has is (1) break his contract and not play in the NHL (2) sit on the bench and pout while the city hates him and hope that the ownership of the CBJ starts losing money in such an extreme amount that his salary actually hurts then [more so than it did last year where he was 'playing for a contract' and managed to help his team get to the awe inspiring 13 in the West] ? Nash signed his dead weight contract and now he will enjoy being completely irrelevant in hockey if the GM has any balls. I don't know where you're from, and I don't understand all this hate, but quit dragging me back to that discussion. I'm not going to waste my time going there. That was simply a reply to iCanada, while quoting one of the panelist on TSN. I'm merely pointing out that this was a wrong move by the GM, which the vast majority of the hockey world, whether you're a professional player, columnists, or fans like us, even on TL, agrees with. Edit: @iCanada, yes I know he is hating on Nash and not me. That's what I meant. Edit2: This is dumb and is just going in circles. I give up. Reading comprehension FTL. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 28 2012 14:21 Fishball wrote: I don't know where you're from, and I don't understand all this hate, but quit dragging me back to that discussion. I'm not going to waste my time going there. That was simply a reply to iCanada, while quoting one of the panelist on TSN. I'm merely pointing out that this was a wrong move by the GM, which the vast majority of the hockey world, whether you're a professional player, columnists, or fans like us, even on TL, agrees with. He isn't hating on you, he is hating on Nash. Quite frankly, I agree with him 100%. Howson isn't forced to do anything, and like I said he has played this exact same game before in Edmonton when Chris Pronger requested a trade. Both him and Lowe said they wished they just stuck to their guns and made him play in Edmonton or sit because the way they made it seem like they HAD to move him gave them a deadline; because they had to get it done by their deadline (which realistically means nothing) they took less than they wanted.. basically setting the Oilers back ten years. This does give Howson more leverage, especially if it is true that Nash requested a trade. An Owner is going to want to maximize his assets, selling low to meet a players demands when realistically the player is legally binded to you is poor asset management. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
With or without Nash in the lineup the Jackets are a terrible team, he will still provide the utility of his contract so the Jackets can reach the cap floor and as long as they arent going broke there is 0 pressure to sell him at a low ball offer. If someone wants Kovelchuk 2.0 they will have to pay an appropriate price for him and not low ball them the way Edmonton was on Pronger. | ||
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 28 2012 14:56 Sub40APM wrote: What iCanada said. With or without Nash in the lineup the Jackets are a terrible team, he will still provide the utility of his contract so the Jackets can reach the cap floor and as long as they arent going broke there is 0 pressure to sell him at a low ball offer. If someone wants Kovelchuk 2.0 they will have to pay an appropriate price for him and not low ball them the way Edmonton was on Pronger. Exactly, realistically the return on Nash isn't going to help the jackets in the short term anyway, they gain more by just waiting till someone pays the right price. Look at the Pronger deal. it netted them Smid, Lupul, and a first round pick. Lupul was a mediocre top six player at the time, Smid was far from NHL ready, and the first round pick hadn't even been drafted. Now from the trade they have Smid (their best Defender by far), Jordan Eberle, and Andy Sutton (yeah, we traded Lupul for Pitkanen, whom we traded for Patrick O'Sullivan, whom we traded for Vandemeer/Foster... who we bought out/traded for Sutton). The return now looks pretty damn good... but during that year the Oilers got a 40 point floater for a 60 point defender who dominated in all aspects of the game. Now we have a defenceman who plays just as well in his own end, and a forward who contributes just as much (perhaps more, even) offensively. | ||
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wunsun
Canada622 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 15:16 iCanada wrote: Exactly, realistically the return on Nash isn't going to help the jackets in the short term anyway, they gain more by just waiting till someone pays the right price. Look at the Pronger deal. it netted them Smid, Lupul, and a first round pick. Lupul was a mediocre top six player at the time, Smid was far from NHL ready, and the first round pick hadn't even been drafted. Now from the trade they have Smid (their best Defender by far), Jordan Eberle, and Andy Sutton (yeah, we traded Lupul for Pitkanen, whom we traded for Patrick O'Sullivan, whom we traded for Vandemeer/Foster... who we bought out/traded for Sutton). The return now looks pretty damn good... but during that year the Oilers got a 40 point floater for a 60 point defender who dominated in all aspects of the game. Now we have a defenceman who plays just as well in his own end, and a forward who contributes just as much (perhaps more, even) offensively. Ya. I mean look what Toronto got in return for Kaberle. Then compare it to what Edmonton got for Pronger. And I dare anyone to tell me that they would rather have Kaberle instead of Pronger on their team. That is why NHL GMs piss me off though, too often they let media/fans/whatever dictate to them their moves and they sell amazing assets for pennies on the dollars. Then comes the free agency period and they vastly overpay. Its just annoying how the good old boys network continues to survive in a multi billion dollar business. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 16:25 wunsun wrote: Man. Ottawa....whats with my team. We eat goalies up like no other team... :S At least we got a replacement for Anderson as he heals up. But on the plus side you got rid of Heatley. Karmically that is an amazing move. | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:58 Manifesto7 wrote: What happens in the playoffs if someone gets hurt? Last year Kesler was a shadow in the finals because of his hip. Hodgson is your insurance. It is the same reason you don't trade Schneider until the draft. And even if Kassian is the kind of guy you want on your third line, you don't trade a top-6 forward, and potential first line guy, to get him. Fucking awful. I will miss thee, Cody Hodgson. Alain Vigneault is just too ham-handed with developing players :/ I like the Pahlsson move though, hopefully Kesler can just focus on offence now. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32058 Posts
The dude is making $7.8m a year so long as he shows up, and he's gonna float all day after this shit until he is traded. Also, the sub40apm comments, how the hell is one forward supposed to drag a shitty team like that from the cellar with absolutely no help?? The one year they made the playoffs was because Hitchcock's system makes scrubby players look like defensive stalwarts, and because Mason had a legitimately good year because/on top of that. The team sucked dick besides that. For christ's sake, Manny Malholtra was fifth in scoring... Tyutin has been their best dman since he has been there and he really is more of a nice 3 or 4 than a 1 or 2. They never had any legit 1Cs to play along with him, and anyone that had the potential to be one (Brassard, Vermette) CBJ quickly rode right into the ground. It really is baffling how one can sit there and say that Nash failed CBJ when it was clearly the other way around. This was already a widely known fact, and this throwing under the bus is just going to further hamper them in trades, and they won't be having anyone come as an FA without some serious overpayment. Someone wanting out and revealing that doens't give you more leverage. Now other GM know you have a toxic asset that doesn't want to play, and that you don't want him half assing it for your either. | ||
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Flaccid
8836 Posts
Yes, it's alright to assume a guy like Nash will bring in a nice return, but historically, in these situations, it doesn't happen. You're lucky to get a roster player and magic beans. The GM is over a barrel and he is never in a position to 'win' the trade. Look at the Dany Heatley demand - all that's left of that is Milan Michalek. Look at the Chris Pronger trade - all that's left of that is Ladislav Smid and a draft pick (which they got lucky on). If it does end up working out, it's an outlier. These were bad moves by the GM which won't help his trade position in any way, shape, or form. It only makes sense in the context that everyone inside of the hockey world already knew Nash wanted out, so he had nothing to lose and just wants to tar and feather the guy on his way out of town as to not look like the idiot who traded their franchise player. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Flaccid
8836 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On February 28 2012 23:56 Flaccid wrote: How can he walk when he's under contract until 2014/2015? Whoops, my bad. I thought he was going to be a UFA. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32058 Posts
In the off-season, on July 3, 2009, Nash signed an eight-year contract extension with the Blue Jackets worth $62.4 million set to take effect in 2010–11.[10] | ||
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Flaccid
8836 Posts
Compare that to when Edmonton had to move Pronger - at the time he was the premier defenseman in the league (he really was), in the prime of his career, signed to a reasonably cheap contract that came out of uncertainty with the new cap. And they still couldn't get a top roster player out of Anaheim. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32058 Posts
Remember this when Nash gets flipped for peanuts this summer: "According to Larry Brooks in the NY Post, the Rangers final offer for Rick Nash was Brandon Dubinsky , Tim Erixon (was supposed to have a spot this year but lost it due to the re-emergence of MDZ and McD; currently a little under a PPG in the AHL), JT Miller (1st rounder from last year), Christian Thomas (2nd rounder, also highly touted) and a first round pick. Brooks writes that Columbus was after a package that included either Ryan McDonagh or Michael Del Zotto, Derek Stepan or Carl Hagelin, Chris Kreider and Brandon Dubinsky." What CBJ was asking was never going to happen, but that offer that Slats threw out will be the best they would have had by miles, and after Howson spoke they won't be getting anything close to that. I still would have gone and hunted down Slats if the first deal happened because Dubi rules and is an integral part of the team, at least one of those prospects will turn out to be real good, and that contract is awful. | ||
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Flaccid
8836 Posts
Hawk, I think you're a numbers guy so perhaps you'd be interested in book-marking this for some light reading. It's an analysis of prospects and how age and minor-league success translates to NHL effectiveness. It is a useful guide in telling which prospects, drafted where, are actually tracking to be useful NHLers. http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4220 A lot of people got their panties in a bunch over 'so and so is never going to amount to anything', so there are a few follow-up posts such as: http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=4231 Also lol: ![[image loading]](http://www.mc79hockey.com/wp-content/themes/TheStyle/TheStyle/images/logo.png){kind=logo} I need to put myself in a better mood: Ahhhhh, there we go. | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
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