EPTNHL 2011-2012 Season - Page 39
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 11:49 Taku wrote: Man, if this trade doesn't pan out Gillis and probably AV are going to get run out of town. You don't trade a possible future Linden for uncertainty like this, if they got a much better return people probably wouldn't be as pissed. 1) Gillis will be fine, he is the butt boy of the owners. 2) The team that went to the finals last year was the team Burke-Nonis built/stole from Florida 3) This trade is just like the Ballard Trade. Keith "I ride the pine for most of the season" Ballard for 1st rounder, Grabner and Bernier. In the end the Canuck performance will hinge on Luongo and the Sedin Twins. They perform and the team will be fine. They get bullied and that is that. | ||
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Scrandom
Canada2819 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:53 GolemMadness wrote: Yeah, he should have replaced Henrik on the top line. That makes sense. Putting words in my mouth is fair | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 11:14 GreenManalishi wrote: Mike Gillis has scouting reports and a hell of a lot more information then we do. I think this is a trade that is going to take time to see who the winners and losers are. Ya, like his scouting reports on Ballard right? | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
Now look at poor Red Wing fans like me. Ken Holland hasnt done anything of note since they got Hossa and its going to be another second round exist for the Wings. Although, I guess, on the plus side Erickson broke his wrist so at least whoever they call up from the AHL wont be the turnover machine that joker is. | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
On February 28 2012 11:59 Sub40APM wrote: 1) Gillis will be fine, he is the butt boy of the owners. 2) The team that went to the finals last year was the team Burke-Nonis built/stole from Florida 3) This trade is just like the Ballard Trade. Keith "I ride the pine for most of the season" Ballard for 1st rounder, Grabner and Bernier. In the end the Canuck performance will hinge on Luongo and the Sedin Twins. They perform and the team will be fine. They get bullied and that is that. I mean run out of town by the fans/media  Also why do they keep trading for formerly AV-coached projects? | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 12:11 Taku wrote: I mean run out of town by the fans/media Also why do they keep trading for formerly AV-coached projects?What are the fans going to do, burn the town down again? Its pretty clear that there is 0 pressure from the owners on Gillis to actually win, if there was there would have been a lot bigger deals instead of just tinkering around the periphery. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
TSN/Sportsnet are all in disbelief, and I couldn't agree more, holy shit. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 12:18 Fishball wrote: I doubt there are many Columbus fans here, but their GM calling out Rick Nash is so uncool. TSN/Sportsnet are all in disbelief, and I couldn't agree more, holy shit. I dont know, there are no winners in that saga. Nash got his big pay check and has played worse and worse each year after his big money and then demands a trade but wont waive his NTC? What would you have done as the GM in that situation, especially when no one wants to give up anything for anyone? | ||
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
On February 28 2012 12:11 Taku wrote: I mean run out of town by the fans/media Also why do they keep trading for formerly AV-coached projects?AV has man crushes on player, just look at Rome and Raymond. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27157 Posts
A) expose a damaged relationship to the public to ensure any future trade proposals will be 20% less valuable, or B) barring a trade, ensuring that Nash turns into a $7.8 million black hole who refuses to give up his body for a team he hates. On February 28 2012 12:26 Sub40APM wrote: I dont know, there are no winners in that saga. Nash got his big pay check and has played worse and worse each year after his big money and then demands a trade but wont waive his NTC? What would you have done as the GM in that situation, especially when no one wants to give up anything for anyone? This is only the first year of his deal. And I don't blame him for being choosy with his NTC. He doesn't want to go from Columbus to another loser market like Florida or Dallas. Anyway, even if Nash is a dick, the GM shouldn't reduce the leverage he has with potential trade partners by showing the world their problems. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
It's toxic. Anyway, the asking price is way too high and their hands are completely tied. I don't want any part of that contract. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32111 Posts
On February 28 2012 11:14 GreenManalishi wrote: Mike Gillis has scouting reports and a hell of a lot more information then we do. I think this is a trade that is going to take time to see who the winners and losers are. As someone that has followed Hodgeson's careers since before he was drafted I'm pretty upset to see him go, but I am going to give GMMG the benefit of the doubt here. Gillis hasn't made any serious errors since becoming GM, and has made some of the best moves in the NHL, I would be very surprised if this deal is as bad as your making it out to be. Nah, it's pretty bad. Roster player with loads of potential for a guy who is simply a prospect. They could have picked up Downie for Sulzer, and Downie would have be every bit as tough and annoying while still bringing proven skills to the table. Terrible trade. How the fuck has Howson not been fired? What an absolute moron. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 12:31 Manifesto7 wrote: Wouldn't it be more shocking if Columbus had actually handled that properly? It seems only natural that, after failing to trade the best player in team history the GM would either A) expose a damaged relationship to the public to ensure any future trade proposals will be 20% less valuable, or B) barring a trade, ensuring that Nash turns into a $7.8 million black hole who refuses to give up his body for a team he hates. This is only the first year of his deal. And I don't blame him for being choosy with his NTC. He doesn't want to go from Columbus to another loser market like Florida or Dallas. Anyway, even if Nash is a dick, the GM shouldn't reduce the leverage he has with potential trade partners by showing the world their problems. Right, so Columbus, being stupid, decide to sign a guy with declining stats to a ridiculous deal and Nash still has the balls to demand a trade? Sorry, but the guy is a joke. Players take paycuts to play on Stanley Cup contenders, they dont take a contract they know is basically immovable and then a year later demand a trade to a contender. Like where did Nash imagine he was going to land at the deadline? Vancouver? Detroit? Boston? Does any team that has a legitimate shot at the Cup have the cap space to accommodate his ridiculously overpriced contract for so long? Even if some GM is naturally stupid enough to say yes the Kovalchuk saga should serve as a great warning to everyone that no matter how many goals someone might have put up 5 years ago they are not worth crippling your cap space for. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 28 2012 12:31 Manifesto7 wrote: Wouldn't it be more shocking if Columbus had actually handled that properly? It seems only natural that, after failing to trade the best player in team history the GM would either A) expose a damaged relationship to the public to ensure any future trade proposals will be 20% less valuable, or B) barring a trade, ensuring that Nash turns into a $7.8 million black hole who refuses to give up his body for a team he hates. This is only the first year of his deal. And I don't blame him for being choosy with his NTC. He doesn't want to go from Columbus to another loser market like Florida or Dallas. Anyway, even if Nash is a dick, the GM shouldn't reduce the leverage he has with potential trade partners by showing the world their problems. If anything, I think Howson was increasing the leverage he has over Nash. If he can trade Nash to more places, there is more people bidding making his price go up. Right now he supposedly has a small list he wants to be traded to. Sorry mister primadona, but you signed a contract to play hockey, he either plays in Columbus, accepts a trade to whomever offers the most, or breaks his contract and doesn't get paid at all. Obviously, not getting paid/breaking his contract is an extremely unnatractive option, so that leaves the other two. Seeing how Nash doesn't want to play in Columbus anymore anyway, it isn't really in the Jackets interests to have him calling it in night after night for the big bucks, so by making it a less attractive option to sit around they are putting leverage in their favour. Suddenly the Locker room knows this guy doesn't want to be their, the fans know it, and he is going to start the feel how this makes everyone feel. Realistically, they need to blow it all up anyway so it isn't a particularly bad move for Howson to pressure Nash by throwing him under the bus, it increases his leverage and effectively the demand for Nash because all the bidders can actually bid instead of just the three or four Nash has a crush on. Having seen a GM (Kevin Lowe with Chris Pronger) do this exact same scenario the exact way everyone says Howson was supposed to, I think Howson did the right thing. Especially since he has the experience from being Lowe's assistant when the whole Pronger debacle went down. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On February 28 2012 12:56 Sub40APM wrote: Right, so Columbus, being stupid, decide to sign a guy with declining stats to a ridiculous deal and Nash still has the balls to demand a trade? Sorry, but the guy is a joke. Players take paycuts to play on Stanley Cup contenders, they dont take a contract they know is basically immovable and then a year later demand a trade to a contender. Like where did Nash imagine he was going to land at the deadline? Vancouver? Detroit? Boston? Does any team that has a legitimate shot at the Cup have the cap space to accommodate his ridiculously overpriced contract for so long? Even if some GM is naturally stupid enough to say yes the Kovalchuk saga should serve as a great warning to everyone that no matter how many goals someone might have put up 5 years ago they are not worth crippling your cap space for. You're totally missing the point, and I'm not going to even go there. Regardless of whether the trade goes through or not, it's the fact that the GM threw Rick Nash under the bus that is the problem. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27157 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:52 iCanada wrote: If anything, I think Howson was increasing the leverage he has over Nash. If he can trade Nash to more places, there is more people bidding making his price go up. Right now he supposedly has a small list he wants to be traded to. Sorry mister primadona, but you signed a contract to play hockey, he either plays in Columbus, accepts a trade to whomever offers the most, or breaks his contract and doesn't get paid at all. Obviously, not getting paid/breaking his contract is an extremely unnatractive option, so that leaves the other two. Seeing how Nash doesn't want to play in Columbus anymore anyway, it isn't really in the Jackets interests to have him calling it in night after night for the big bucks, so by making it a less attractive option to sit around they are putting leverage in their favour. Suddenly the Locker room knows this guy doesn't want to be their, the fans know it, and he is going to start the feel how this makes everyone feel. Realistically, they need to blow it all up anyway so it isn't a particularly bad move for Howson to pressure Nash by throwing him under the bus, it increases his leverage and effectively the demand for Nash because all the bidders can actually bid instead of just the three or four Nash has a crush on. Yeah, I don't buy that. I think that the three or four more teams that are bidding on him are still going to lowball him because they know he has to be moved before next season now. It is the equivalent of moving a UFA before the deadline, except that the deadline is now opening day 2012. Let's not forget that this GM just doomed CBJ to paying 120% for any FA ever now. "Come play for Columbus, worst team in the league and the GM will throw you into oncoming traffic!" | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:52 iCanada wrote: If anything, I think Howson was increasing the leverage he has over Nash. If he can trade Nash to more places, there is more people bidding making his price go up. Right now he supposedly has a small list he wants to be traded to. Sorry mister primadona, but you signed a contract to play hockey, he either plays in Columbus, accepts a trade to whomever offers the most, or breaks his contract and doesn't get paid at all. Obviously, not getting paid/breaking his contract is an extremely unnatractive option, so that leaves the other two. Seeing how Nash doesn't want to play in Columbus anymore anyway, it isn't really in the Jackets interests to have him calling it in night after night for the big bucks, so by making it a less attractive option to sit around they are putting leverage in their favour. Suddenly the Locker room knows this guy doesn't want to be their, the fans know it, and he is going to start the feel how this makes everyone feel. Realistically, they need to blow it all up anyway so it isn't a particularly bad move for Howson to pressure Nash by throwing him under the bus, it increases his leverage and effectively the demand for Nash because all the bidders can actually bid instead of just the three or four Nash has a crush on. He totally does not gain more leverage over Nash. This move serves no purpose other than to worsen the entire situation. As one panelist pointed out, Nash can actually further shorten his list, or even refuse to play for the Blue Jackets, and remain dead weight on the salary cap until they trade him. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:58 Fishball wrote: He totally does not gain more leverage over Nash. This move serves no purpose other than to worsen the entire situation. As one panelist pointed out, Nash can actually further shorten his list, or even refuse to play for the Blue Jackets, and remain dead weight on the salary cap until they trade him. What was Nash bringing to the table to Columbus before this incident? The same dead last place? Oh no, instead of finishing 26th we will finish 30th because Nash wont contribute anymore. The only play Nash has is (1) break his contract and not play in the NHL (2) sit on the bench and pout while the city hates him and hope that the ownership of the CBJ starts losing money in such an extreme amount that his salary actually hurts then [more so than it did last year where he was 'playing for a contract' and managed to help his team get to the awe inspiring 13 in the West] ? Nash signed his dead weight contract and now he will enjoy being completely irrelevant in hockey if the GM has any balls. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:57 Manifesto7 wrote: Yeah, I don't buy that. I think that the three or four more teams that are bidding on him are still going to lowball him because they know he has to be moved before next season now. It is the equivalent of moving a UFA before the deadline, except that the deadline is now opening day 2012. Nah, not in the slightest. Guys like Rick Nash will always have a huge market for them because they are just game changers. Nash has all the scoring prowess (and more imo) of a guy like Dany Heatley with more speed, better in zone play, unmatched size and physicality from a player of his nature. The only players that come even close to Rick Nash's abilities are Jarome Iginla Circa five plus years ago, and Alexander Ovechkin who makes more monies and has fallen off the map. You get a chance to acquire a player of that caliber you go for it even if you have to over pay. You know what all the best hockey minds say, you get the best player in a deal you win the deal... in a trade with Rick Nash 99999/100000 he is the best player in the deal. And he doesn't HAVE to be moved by opening day. Hell, Brassard demanded a trade earlier this year... you know what happened? He got his ass stapled to the press box and he eventually decided he would just play for the Jackets. Howson has been through this scenario before being Lowe's assistant GM when the Oilers traded Pronger to the Ducks... both have publicly said they should have just let Pronger sit until the right deal came... The Pronger trade set the Oilers back ten years... I guarantee that Howson will stick Nash's ass to the press box before selling him low. | ||
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