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Guild invites: Message any of EvoSenseOfPride, ScionViableORly, neophyteWham, TheTouchOfGOLD in game OR post your character name in the thread and ask for an invite Private league ladder (finished): https://www.pathofexile.com/private-leagues/league/TeamLiquid and friends | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 03 2014 16:28 Varanice wrote: WTS another Fishing Rod. Edit: sold for 50 ex and 6 ex equiv This guy. Make sure to give us a proper story about how you figured shit out when the sekrit is out please. And it better be a good story. =P | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 04 2014 00:14 thezanursic wrote: Can somebody point me to a shadow guide? Good one, up to date. Also do the refund passive skills thing reset your tree completely or just 1 point? Haven't dared use it yet. Each one refunds one node. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1966 Posts
On January 04 2014 00:11 Ota Solgryn wrote: This is just sad. I play nemisis with a selffound shadow and so far it is the strongest easiest character I have played. Please make some research before you come into a forum and spout "bad game design". All you did is probably make an awful build and at the same time you play hardcore. Hardcore in POE is about kiting and making viable builds, balancing dmg with survivability. One tip, in hardcore, HP is king! Do you even read what you write? "One tip in hardcore, HP is king!" Oh yeah? Then why does the primary defensive stat of the shadow not scale with hp at all? I might have phrased my statement wrong, so let's try it again. A Energy Shield/Evasion melee shadow is in a bad spot, because his defensive mechanics are not strong enough to overcome damage spikes from enemies. And that is completely true. It's also bad gamedesign, because the most obvious gameplay strategy of a class is severely hindered by itemization concerns and a counterintuitve passive allocation strategy. Having to rely on hp nodes and hp equip to survive the early game and then reallocating your stats once you have lategame quipment is just bad. It's not like i want to make a niche character viable and argue that my armor/evasion twohand melee witch is too weak. I have already dropped the dagger because fist weapons do a lot more damage and keep my health sustained, they also don't need that much intelligence. Yes, the game is hard and it's good that it's hard. I actually just died to a new Nemesis mod i didn't know, it was my bad, i might have died with a better character as well, i might have not. If everyone tells me not to play a Shadow, then that's probably because the shadow has problems that other classes have not and i argue that this is bad game design. Why are you acting as if i said your mother is fat, jeez. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 04 2014 01:16 Broetchenholer wrote: Do you even read what you write? "One tip in hardcore, HP is king!" Oh yeah? Then why does the primary defensive stat of the shadow not scale with hp at all? I might have phrased my statement wrong, so let's try it again. A Energy Shield/Evasion melee shadow is in a bad spot, because his defensive mechanics are not strong enough to overcome damage spikes from enemies. And that is completely true. It's also bad gamedesign, because the most obvious gameplay strategy of a class is severely hindered by itemization concerns and a counterintuitve passive allocation strategy. Having to rely on hp nodes and hp equip to survive the early game and then reallocating your stats once you have lategame quipment is just bad. It's not like i want to make a niche character viable and argue that my armor/evasion twohand melee witch is too weak. I have already dropped the dagger because fist weapons do a lot more damage and keep my health sustained, they also don't need that much intelligence. Yes, the game is hard and it's good that it's hard. I actually just died to a new Nemesis mod i didn't know, it was my bad, i might have died with a better character as well, i might have not. If everyone tells me not to play a Shadow, then that's probably because the shadow has problems that other classes have not and i argue that this is bad game design. Why are you acting as if i said your mother is fat, jeez. Well the first thing you should realize is that your class in path of exile only determines where you start on the passive tree. There is no forced stat allocation in this game where your shadow has to be an int/dex hybrid character. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1966 Posts
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On January 04 2014 01:16 Broetchenholer wrote: Do you even read what you write? "One tip in hardcore, HP is king!" Oh yeah? Then why does the primary defensive stat of the shadow not scale with hp at all? I might have phrased my statement wrong, so let's try it again. A Energy Shield/Evasion melee shadow is in a bad spot, because his defensive mechanics are not strong enough to overcome damage spikes from enemies. And that is completely true. It's also bad gamedesign, because the most obvious gameplay strategy of a class is severely hindered by itemization concerns and a counterintuitve passive allocation strategy. Having to rely on hp nodes and hp equip to survive the early game and then reallocating your stats once you have lategame quipment is just bad. It's not like i want to make a niche character viable and argue that my armor/evasion twohand melee witch is too weak. I have already dropped the dagger because fist weapons do a lot more damage and keep my health sustained, they also don't need that much intelligence. Yes, the game is hard and it's good that it's hard. I actually just died to a new Nemesis mod i didn't know, it was my bad, i might have died with a better character as well, i might have not. If everyone tells me not to play a Shadow, then that's probably because the shadow has problems that other classes have not and i argue that this is bad game design. Why are you acting as if i said your mother is fat, jeez. Well sorry if I came across as mad. It is just terrible to hear someone who just started a game and say it is bad game design on a subforum for said game. And you just did it again. Just FYI before you keep saying bad game design; most of the stuff in POE is on purpose. For instance, the fact that you cannot start out with ES build. This is made this way on purpose to make people work with health first and then gather good items and regret orbs so you eventually can go for an ES build. They WANT people to be farming and get build enabling items. This is a decision made by GGG and not "bad design". Wether it is to your liking (with your first character, where you pick the hardest league with arguably the hardest character for newbies) or not is another thing and not bad game design Bad design would be if they WANTED all builds to be viable without any items, but then messed up and made very few builds viable. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 04 2014 01:39 Broetchenholer wrote: Of course, but the effectively reachable passives determine certain ways of playing. I could play a shadow that uses bows and only utilizes dex armor and make him mostly as effective as a ranger, i couldn't do the same with a str based build compared to a marauder. There are archetypes for the classes and these archetypes should be balanced. If the archetype cannot be played without major problems, there is a problem in gamebalance or gamedesign. Can we agree on that? You're pretty much guaranteed to get a bad build as a first time player. That doesn't make the game have bad design. You simply don't know enough about the game to make a good build. You have a bad build because of lack of knowledge. The only thing you could say about the game design is that it is unforgiving and that it doesn't cater to one character players. If that isn't your cup of tea then the game simply wasn't made for you. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 04 2014 01:39 Broetchenholer wrote: Of course, but the effectively reachable passives determine certain ways of playing. I could play a shadow that uses bows and only utilizes dex armor and make him mostly as effective as a ranger, i couldn't do the same with a str based build compared to a marauder. There are archetypes for the classes and these archetypes should be balanced. If the archetype cannot be played without major problems, there is a problem in gamebalance or gamedesign. Can we agree on that? BW was such a shit game, Reaver/Sair was so much harder to play PvZ than anything else. If anything the "archetypes" you're mentioning are based off the primary routes a character has. In the case of Shadow that means Spell Damage / Projectile Damage / One-Handed Melee Physical Damage. Each of those "archetypes" are completely viable builds for a Shadow. Edit: You're also missing a major point. PoE has two main "buffers" - ES and HP. It also has two main physical mitigation stats - AR / EV. While combining any two of those is reasonable (ES/AR / ES/EV // HP/EV HP/AR) they aren't interchangeable. ES/AR is usually not played (despite e.g. the Templar having the combo nodes for it) because ES scales off the same stat on gear that your mitigation stat would scale off. You have to decide between more ES on a piece or more AR on a piece. Since more buffer is almost always more efficient, that's why people don't play ES/AR as a real hybrid class and instead rely on having more buffer than a comparable HP/AR class. It's the exact same deal with ES/EV. Every single piece of equipment will have to be balanced between two conflicting stats which is why people usually don't play it like that. On HP builds however your buffer scales with a stat that is NOT related to your mitigation stat which is why for example a HP build has access to Acrobatics to compensate when it comes to EV. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Varanice
United States1517 Posts
On January 04 2014 01:54 corumjhaelen wrote: Ok, I'm almost a complete beginner, just finished act 1 with a summoner in Domination. I'll probably finish at least normal with this character, but I'd like to try a melee one at the same time, Duelist maybe. Does anyone has a build suggestion ? Thanks in advance. Can do Cleave, Spectral Throw, Dual Strike + melee splash, or a few other things. | ||
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thezanursic
5500 Posts
I read something (was confused) about it being a temporary league (Which I don't mind). Let this be a learning experience, if I like it after this character is deleted I'll try to make my perma character actually good. Anyway can somebody link me to a passive skill guide? | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 04 2014 02:32 thezanursic wrote: Also I noticed that I created my first character in Domination, what does that mean? I read something (was confused) about it being a temporary league (Which I don't mind). Let this be a learning experience, if I like it after this character is deleted I'll try to make my perma character actually good. Anyway can somebody link me to a passive skill guide? The league is temporary, your character isn't. Domination characters will feed into regular Softcore at the end of it. The temporary leagues basically exist to reset the economy from time to time. | ||
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Varanice
United States1517 Posts
On January 04 2014 02:32 thezanursic wrote: Also I noticed that I created my first character in Domination, what does that mean? I read something (was confused) about it being a temporary league (Which I don't mind). Let this be a learning experience, if I like it after this character is deleted I'll try to make my perma character actually good. Anyway can somebody link me to a passive skill guide? What kind of build do you want to make? I can make you a tree for you if you want. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On January 04 2014 02:12 Varanice wrote: Can do Cleave, Spectral Throw, Dual Strike + melee splash, or a few other things. Dual Strike + Melee Splash sounds fun, any advice ? (I'll google the rest, don't worry  ) | ||
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Varanice
United States1517 Posts
On January 04 2014 02:44 corumjhaelen wrote: Dual Strike + Melee Splash sounds fun, any advice ? (I'll google the rest, don't worry )Get some good and fast weapons. :D Edit: Heres a tree I threw together, I intentionally didn't take any weapon specific nodes (Axe/Sword/etc.) so that you have some flexibility on what weapons you can use. If you want to spec into a specific weapon type once you hit lategame and have some really good weapons, The Wicked Blade, Splitting Strikes, or Smashing Blows passives would all be a good choice. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgQBAecDhwSxBS0SIBLhFCAaVRrbG60hYCP2KaUxnjIJNJM1kjboOJY64UCgR35KfUxgTeNOKlBHU99W-livWNtaSFuvXotgS2EhY3Bko2VNZ4BnoGxGbmlybHTteA1674N8hNmE74d2iPGVZpkrm4OeuZ_LplenMKgHqW6rxaxZtfK2QbcXvYG-p8APz_jSTd0N52PuDu_j7_DyRfe-_MX-Cv6P | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1966 Posts
 All i am saying is, that ES/EV has a lot of trouble in the game, because it doesn't provide enough buffer for the early game. And everyone seems to agree. So why is the shadow the "arguably hardest" class for newbies? Because the archetype of what most people want a shadow to be does not work very well with the game. So, i am going to refrain from calling it bad game design and you stop being butthurt because some random guy said mean things about your game. And as the finale olive branch, help me out, for i know nothing. How much defense do i have to take to make a melee char viable? My building plan was this: http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYB_5MeGjBUmVcoKrVIsbPtQaZ_bXtVS4w2h9vrY5matvcRL9QFdYoWv_PqcFLAUeOEY0Py4cLsHoFLjf8cRwZfaowL7LC5fA5IwcVPv0NUHdnsGMNt2-eP-rTFKwrBANsaEHv1S746BbXN6ujW3vbaPRuXuIwnYQbpCSGNv3lIS8TQCSEDu3xl8VFHMHyfJxUa-vFnZ8KAvsHYC38r1oo-z73m-WMa20xgBLGVZtfLt9M94kjueK4brdN-3vikeMHVf8Yc3PF2 The rest of the points would go into weapon specific nodes or maybe Chaos inauculation, if the shield gets big neough. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 04 2014 03:23 Broetchenholer wrote: The SC comparison is way off, you can't compare a rpg with a rts in terms of archetypes, come on All i am saying is, that ES/EV has a lot of trouble in the game, because it doesn't provide enough buffer for the early game. And everyone seems to agree. So why is the shadow the "arguably hardest" class for newbies? Because the archetype of what most people want a shadow to be does not work very well with the game. So, i am going to refrain from calling it bad game design and you stop being butthurt because some random guy said mean things about your game. EVERY single ES build in the game sucks early since you get your base ES from items which simply don't exist early on. "ES/EV" isn't an archetype, I outlined that above. You're putting it on the same level as "Well it makes sense that the Witch can be good at casting spells and the ranger be good at Bows" which it isn't. | ||
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Miragee
8699 Posts
@Broetchenholer: By that logic any skill that you can't play from the beginning is bad game design because it doesn't provide enoguh effectiveness early on (in fact none). Not everything has to be viable all the time. And not everything has to be viable at all. The thing with any complex system that tries to give a lot of variety is that everything it contains will range from really good to complete bull shit. And imho that is much better game design than limiting choices to a handful which are all good (which removes thinking from the game) that applies to almost all games nowadays. | ||
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Varanice
United States1517 Posts
Sold the secret of the rods for a 6L legacy shav today.. that was interesting. lol. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1966 Posts
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EPT
The shadow is just in an extremely bad spot, to the point where i would say that it is bad game design :/ I am gonna roll the roulette until he dies, which will be pretty soon i guess and then switch to another Nemesis class and play shadow only for the funsies in normal. It's too late to respec now, maybe i can put in even more passive points in defensive and the problem will go away, but i doubt it.
