EPTPath of Exile - Page 510
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Guild invites: Message any of EvoSenseOfPride, ScionViableORly, neophyteWham, TheTouchOfGOLD in game OR post your character name in the thread and ask for an invite Private league ladder (finished): https://www.pathofexile.com/private-leagues/league/TeamLiquid and friends | ||
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ZoRoXo
Norway268 Posts
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SlixSC
666 Posts
Drama, get your popcorn ready ladies and gentlemen. | ||
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Varanice
United States1517 Posts
On October 13 2013 22:23 SlixSC wrote: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/539354 Drama, get your popcorn ready ladies and gentlemen. I think that this is great that a top racer finally brought this up with solid evidence, but the thing that I really don't like is that GGG will probably shut down the thread for naming and shaming or whatever. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On October 14 2013 00:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Can anyone give me the summary of that thread? It's locked now. Cwu accused BZ, Choi and Alkaizer of maphacking, he did quite alot of research. GGG are just a bunch of dickheads. Instead of working out a solution they lock the thread. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
Thread probably got locked because name calling isn't allowed and the fact that he kind of made advertisement for an existing maphack doesn't help either, even if that definitely wasn't his point (he didn't make a link or anything to the site). | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On October 13 2013 21:05 SlixSC wrote: Doesn't matter if it's trash though, it's gonna be a collector's item a couple years down the road and it's only going to go up in value. Too bad it is going up in the value on the league nobody plays. 18 exalts today might be worth more than 50 exalts two years from now ^_^ | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On October 14 2013 01:18 HolydaKing wrote: Basically cwu wrote a thread about that there is an easily googleable maphack which is probably being used by some "famous" racers, namely Alkaizer, Bzmode and Choilicious. He showed their inconsistent racing results and made some pretty good points. Thread probably got locked because name calling isn't allowed and the fact that he kind of made advertisement for an existing maphack doesn't help either, even if that definitely wasn't his point (he didn't make a link or anything to the site). The problem is, if we can't call out maphackers, what could we possibly do to stop them? If anything, GGG deleting this thread gives me the impression that they don't really care about maphackers and would rather stick to some arbitrary principal (no name calling) instead of directly adressing the problem in a pragmatic way (discuss it with the community and figure out if these people are actually maphacking). I mean it doesn't work like this in real life either, if someone accuses you of murder and has evidence to support that claim you can't just go "I won't go to court, because he's name calling!". If accusations are made, the worst thing you could possibly do is to deny the accused and the accuser their right to a fair trial. Otherwise people will just come to their own conclusions and in the end everyone is worse off. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
if someone accuses you of murder and has evidence to support that claim Yes, but you report it to the police because they take care of it. You don't post it on facebook and try to have a discussion about it. Should have been sent to GGG in a PM or emailed support. There is no value to discussing it on the forums. A fair trial doesn't include a public discussion on the guilt or innocence of the person. | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On October 14 2013 01:59 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Yes, but you report it to the police because they take care of it. You don't post it on facebook and try to have a discussion about it. Should have been sent to GGG in a PM or emailed support. There is no value to discussing it on the forums. A fair trial doesn't include a public discussion on the guilt or innocence of the person. While this is true, GGG has been very dismissive of these requests in the past. Cwu told me that some time ago they claimed to have "cheating under control" and "there is no need to worry". Which makes you wonder, why has nobody ever been banned for maphacking? I mean I am not an expert in that particular field but it seems very unlikely that absolutely nobody would use that maphack, nobody. The only way to get GGGs attention when it comes down to racing feedback is via the public channel, they are very dismissive of any feedback or accusations you make in private. Probably because they are an indie company with limited ressources, so it's understandable, but it's also understandable that the community take matters into their own hands when the Developer shows this kind of dismissive attitude ala "we got it under control." every time people ask them about it. | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
The best way to deal with hacking is to send the proof privately. Just because they don't immediately respond or act doesn't mean they don't care. A company like GGG wants to solve the actual problem not just ban and lose their sources of data on the problem. People need to learn to read a little deeper rather then just overreacting to the immediate response. Mods may be instructed to lock any hacking thread until devs can review it. | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On October 14 2013 02:10 mucker wrote: If people are using a cheat and GGG is aware but hasn't figure out yet how to stop it they probably want them to keep cheating so they can figure it out. It is the same thing with starcraft hackers. People get all upset that Blizzard doesn't ban exposed hackers immediately. But you don't ban someone as soon as you know they're hacking, you ban them when you know you can stop the hack. The best way to deal with hacking is to send the proof privately. Just because they don't immediately respond or act doesn't mean they don't care. A company like GGG wants to solve the actual problem not just ban and lose their sources of data on the problem. People need to learn to read a little deeper rather then just overreacting to the immediate response. Mods may be instructed to lock any hacking thread until devs can review it. Alkaizer is supposedly maphacking for more than a year now, Choi and BZ for months. At what point do you actually stop them then? Choi even won the Roccat event for actual hardware. If what you are saying is true, GGG allowed a maphacker to win actual hardware prizes. I understand that they probably want to analyze the problem before taking any actions. But if people, for such a long time, cheat their way to victory you have to say "enough is enough" at some point. Especially once you introduce races for actual money and prizes. This can't keep going for another year. | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
On October 14 2013 02:15 SlixSC wrote: Alkaizer is supposedly maphacking for more than a year now, Choi and BZ for months. At what point do you actually stop them then? Choi even won the Roccat event for actual hardware. If what you are saying is true, GGG allowed a maphacker to win actual hardware prizes. I understand that they probably want to analyze the problem before taking any actions. But if people, for such a long time, cheat their way to victory you have to say "enough is enough" at some point. Especially once you introduce races for actual money and prizes. This can't keep going for another year. I have no specific knowledge of GGG's inner workings and what they do or don't know. All I know is how companies deal with hackers and it isn't by instantly reacting to public forum posts. What if they thought someone hacked but couldn't prove it at the time? What should they do, not give out the prize? Wouldn't that cause even worse drama? | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On October 14 2013 02:22 mucker wrote: I have no specific knowledge of GGG's inner workings and what they do or don't know. All I know is how companies deal with hackers and it isn't by instantly reacting to public forum posts. What if they thought someone hacked but couldn't prove it at the time? What should they do, not give out the prize? Wouldn't that cause even worse drama? Well if it takes them more than a year to figure out if someone is maphacking or not they are either incompetent or don't care. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
Now put on your tinfoil hats people, but I think people like Kripp and Alkaizer have some sort of inherent RNG bonus, so to make sure that they enjoy the game. wat The MH accusation on Alkaizer is more plausible. | ||
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
On October 14 2013 02:25 SlixSC wrote: Well if it takes them more than a year to figure out if someone is maphacking or not they are either incompetent or don't care. this is just absurd ggg know they have a serious design flaw in that a map gets loaded into ram at once instead of procedurally and they might even not care enough to do something about it, ie they'd rather spend their time/budget on content and gameplay improvements but detecting a maphack is a whole other story, they'd have to read system memory to be able to detect the hack, which is essentially spyware and definitely not legal don't know what blizzard's warden system does but there's a reason it's so expensive, detecting when a user has another program running that reads its own system's memory instead of tampering directly with the game is not trivial if you're going to somehow do it legally they're obligated to give the benefit of the doubt to those people, if they're unable to conclusively prove they're hacking | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On October 14 2013 03:51 Taguchi wrote: this is just absurd ggg know they have a serious design flaw in that a map gets loaded into ram at once instead of procedurally and they might even not care enough to do something about it, ie they'd rather spend their time/budget on content and gameplay improvements but detecting a maphack is a whole other story, they'd have to read system memory to be able to detect the hack, which is essentially spyware and definitely not legal don't know what blizzard's warden system does but there's a reason it's so expensive, detecting when a user has another program running that reads its own system's memory instead of tampering directly with the game is not trivial if you're going to somehow do it legally they're obligated to give the benefit of the doubt to those people, if they're unable to conclusively prove they're hacking Which proves my point? If GGG is unable to detect these maphacks it is up to knowledgeable people in the community to figure out if players are cheating. I mean you guys all claim to disagree with me, but the posts I read here in response to my posts are sometimes contradicting eachother. One guy says "naw, they are definitely monitoring these guys, just need more data, but I know how it works" you are saying "naw it's too expensive and spyware, so there is no way they can do anything." How in the world am I supposed to have a rational discussion with you people, when the arguments people make in response to my arguments are self-contradicting or at the very least contradicting eachother? P.S.: Ironically, in defense of GGG you are essentially saying that they are lying when they claim that they have "cheating under control." You can't have it both ways. edit: I mean what the hell, you take issue with my statement, that was working off the assumption that mucker's argument is true and not actually take issue with mucker's argument that directly contradicts your own argument? I guess the problem with making an argument idiot-proof is that someone will always come and invent a "better" class of idiots. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
How in the world am I supposed to have a rational discussion with you people, when the arguments people make in response to my arguments are self-contradicting or at the very least contradicting eachother? You realize that different people are allowed to have different opinions, as you are talking to two different people? It's not some sort of tag team against you. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
The best way to deal with hacking is to send the proof privately. Just because they don't immediately respond or act doesn't mean they don't care. A company like GGG wants to solve the actual problem not just ban and lose their sources of data on the problem. What if they thought someone hacked but couldn't prove it at the time? What should they do, not give out the prize? Wouldn't that cause even worse drama? they're obligated to give the benefit of the doubt to those people, if they're unable to conclusively prove they're hacking You haven't adequately refuted any of these arguments. Calling everyone idiots is not a rational discussion at all. | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
On October 14 2013 04:49 EchelonTee wrote: You realize that different people are allowed to have different opinions, as you are talking to two different people? It's not some sort of tag team against you. Really? Then how do you explain the fact that he was quoting me and not the person who's statement directly contradicts his statement? It's incosequential to my argument either way. Either GGG can do something and they are not, which makes them liars, or they can't do something and simply claim they can, which still makes them liars. It's irrelevant to my argument. I've won both ways. I don't have to prove that they are or are not doing something. I'm not the person making the positive claim, you guys are asserting that GGG have it under control, despite having not acted at all on this issue for more than a year now. As a matter of logic the person making the positive claim has the burden of proof (that person isn't me). | ||
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