|
|
On October 13 2013 09:44 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 09:38 Sufficiency wrote:On October 13 2013 09:33 SlixSC wrote:On October 13 2013 04:32 zdfgucker wrote:On October 12 2013 22:16 bluQ wrote:On October 11 2013 21:56 zdfgucker wrote:
I'm referring to guys like me that grind Lunaris 3. Solo, no multiboxing, no maps, nada. GGG is catering for people who play maps (and they sort of encourage multiboxing) and slap people like me in the face. They should just put a hardcap for overall MF and keep both IIQ and IIR as-is.
@bluQ, let me guess, "high level areas" will be map content? That's probably the case considering the path GGG has chosen. We don't know yet how they readjust the level of areas. They emphazize that you should play in partys, so yea if you are looking for a single player game and compare that to the multiplayer part of it, sure you will maybe not "as good" as those dudes playing in partys. But i never understood why you always need to measure urself with others ... and if you do, why pick a totally different group of people that don't even represent you, to compare yourself to. Because I'm competitive. I don't want to be forced into one direction and especially not play parties when every-fucking-thing in this game is causing desync and lag. When others with far shittier gear can get better results, something's wrong. Anyway, I'm pretty pissed about 1.0 . I will have to reroll completely as my build goes through the middle (aka I can only play scion now) and the new leagues are dead to me. Should the IIQ change come to the normal leagues in 4.5 months I will quit the game. Can you define competitive? Outside of racing there really is no competitive aspect in PoE. Sure you have the league ladders, but come on.. if your definition of being competitive means grinding for 12 hours a day I'd rather not be competitive. I can appreciate Baker hitting lvl 100 for example, he obviously put alot of time and effort into it, but that's kind of my point. In league ladders it's all about the amount of time you put into it, not really about your skill. At least I personally wouldn't use the word "competitive" in such a vague context, where the amount of time spent outweighs the skill required by such a huge factor. With dual spork and enough time on your hands, the only question really is "do you have enough time to get to 100?" and not "are you good enough to hit lvl 100." Personally, if anything, it's the fact that totems even exist in this game that ruins the actual game for me. That's part of the reason why I only play races. Because, not only, would I have to put in alot of time to be somewhere near the top, you actually have to play a totem build (preferably dual spork) to guarantee that nothing ever kills you. Put up two totems and chill, that to me personally, defies everything that ARPGs are about. It's in the word itself " action RPG" and not "click two buttons every 10 seconds and just sit behind a totem for the rest of the time RPG". I don't mean to be a dick, but... If you want competitive, SC2/DOTA/LOL is that way -----> It's absurd to talk about "competitive" for a RPG game. RPG games are about fun. Races are very competitive. You have defined your own argument in such a way that makes it necessarily true. Can't argue with that logic.
|
On October 13 2013 09:44 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 09:38 Sufficiency wrote:On October 13 2013 09:33 SlixSC wrote:On October 13 2013 04:32 zdfgucker wrote:On October 12 2013 22:16 bluQ wrote:On October 11 2013 21:56 zdfgucker wrote:
I'm referring to guys like me that grind Lunaris 3. Solo, no multiboxing, no maps, nada. GGG is catering for people who play maps (and they sort of encourage multiboxing) and slap people like me in the face. They should just put a hardcap for overall MF and keep both IIQ and IIR as-is.
@bluQ, let me guess, "high level areas" will be map content? That's probably the case considering the path GGG has chosen. We don't know yet how they readjust the level of areas. They emphazize that you should play in partys, so yea if you are looking for a single player game and compare that to the multiplayer part of it, sure you will maybe not "as good" as those dudes playing in partys. But i never understood why you always need to measure urself with others ... and if you do, why pick a totally different group of people that don't even represent you, to compare yourself to. Because I'm competitive. I don't want to be forced into one direction and especially not play parties when every-fucking-thing in this game is causing desync and lag. When others with far shittier gear can get better results, something's wrong. Anyway, I'm pretty pissed about 1.0 . I will have to reroll completely as my build goes through the middle (aka I can only play scion now) and the new leagues are dead to me. Should the IIQ change come to the normal leagues in 4.5 months I will quit the game. Can you define competitive? Outside of racing there really is no competitive aspect in PoE. Sure you have the league ladders, but come on.. if your definition of being competitive means grinding for 12 hours a day I'd rather not be competitive. I can appreciate Baker hitting lvl 100 for example, he obviously put alot of time and effort into it, but that's kind of my point. In league ladders it's all about the amount of time you put into it, not really about your skill. At least I personally wouldn't use the word "competitive" in such a vague context, where the amount of time spent outweighs the skill required by such a huge factor. With dual spork and enough time on your hands, the only question really is "do you have enough time to get to 100?" and not "are you good enough to hit lvl 100." Personally, if anything, it's the fact that totems even exist in this game that ruins the actual game for me. That's part of the reason why I only play races. Because, not only, would I have to put in alot of time to be somewhere near the top, you actually have to play a totem build (preferably dual spork) to guarantee that nothing ever kills you. Put up two totems and chill, that to me personally, defies everything that ARPGs are about. It's in the word itself " action RPG" and not "click two buttons every 10 seconds and just sit behind a totem for the rest of the time RPG". I don't mean to be a dick, but... If you want competitive, SC2/DOTA/LOL is that way -----> It's absurd to talk about "competitive" for a RPG game. RPG games are about fun. Races are very competitive. You have defined your own argument in such a way that makes it necessarily true. Can't argue with that logic.
I've never personally played one, but my understanding is that a lot of race has to do with having the right drops.
|
On October 13 2013 10:51 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 09:44 SlixSC wrote:On October 13 2013 09:38 Sufficiency wrote:On October 13 2013 09:33 SlixSC wrote:On October 13 2013 04:32 zdfgucker wrote:On October 12 2013 22:16 bluQ wrote:On October 11 2013 21:56 zdfgucker wrote:
I'm referring to guys like me that grind Lunaris 3. Solo, no multiboxing, no maps, nada. GGG is catering for people who play maps (and they sort of encourage multiboxing) and slap people like me in the face. They should just put a hardcap for overall MF and keep both IIQ and IIR as-is.
@bluQ, let me guess, "high level areas" will be map content? That's probably the case considering the path GGG has chosen. We don't know yet how they readjust the level of areas. They emphazize that you should play in partys, so yea if you are looking for a single player game and compare that to the multiplayer part of it, sure you will maybe not "as good" as those dudes playing in partys. But i never understood why you always need to measure urself with others ... and if you do, why pick a totally different group of people that don't even represent you, to compare yourself to. Because I'm competitive. I don't want to be forced into one direction and especially not play parties when every-fucking-thing in this game is causing desync and lag. When others with far shittier gear can get better results, something's wrong. Anyway, I'm pretty pissed about 1.0 . I will have to reroll completely as my build goes through the middle (aka I can only play scion now) and the new leagues are dead to me. Should the IIQ change come to the normal leagues in 4.5 months I will quit the game. Can you define competitive? Outside of racing there really is no competitive aspect in PoE. Sure you have the league ladders, but come on.. if your definition of being competitive means grinding for 12 hours a day I'd rather not be competitive. I can appreciate Baker hitting lvl 100 for example, he obviously put alot of time and effort into it, but that's kind of my point. In league ladders it's all about the amount of time you put into it, not really about your skill. At least I personally wouldn't use the word "competitive" in such a vague context, where the amount of time spent outweighs the skill required by such a huge factor. With dual spork and enough time on your hands, the only question really is "do you have enough time to get to 100?" and not "are you good enough to hit lvl 100." Personally, if anything, it's the fact that totems even exist in this game that ruins the actual game for me. That's part of the reason why I only play races. Because, not only, would I have to put in alot of time to be somewhere near the top, you actually have to play a totem build (preferably dual spork) to guarantee that nothing ever kills you. Put up two totems and chill, that to me personally, defies everything that ARPGs are about. It's in the word itself " action RPG" and not "click two buttons every 10 seconds and just sit behind a totem for the rest of the time RPG". I don't mean to be a dick, but... If you want competitive, SC2/DOTA/LOL is that way -----> It's absurd to talk about "competitive" for a RPG game. RPG games are about fun. Races are very competitive. You have defined your own argument in such a way that makes it necessarily true. Can't argue with that logic. I've never personally played one, but my understanding is that a lot of race has to do with having the right drops.
Something doesn't have to be completely void of luck to be competitive. Almost all competitive games involve a certain amount of randomness.
|
On October 13 2013 10:51 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 09:44 SlixSC wrote:On October 13 2013 09:38 Sufficiency wrote:On October 13 2013 09:33 SlixSC wrote:On October 13 2013 04:32 zdfgucker wrote:On October 12 2013 22:16 bluQ wrote:On October 11 2013 21:56 zdfgucker wrote:
I'm referring to guys like me that grind Lunaris 3. Solo, no multiboxing, no maps, nada. GGG is catering for people who play maps (and they sort of encourage multiboxing) and slap people like me in the face. They should just put a hardcap for overall MF and keep both IIQ and IIR as-is.
@bluQ, let me guess, "high level areas" will be map content? That's probably the case considering the path GGG has chosen. We don't know yet how they readjust the level of areas. They emphazize that you should play in partys, so yea if you are looking for a single player game and compare that to the multiplayer part of it, sure you will maybe not "as good" as those dudes playing in partys. But i never understood why you always need to measure urself with others ... and if you do, why pick a totally different group of people that don't even represent you, to compare yourself to. Because I'm competitive. I don't want to be forced into one direction and especially not play parties when every-fucking-thing in this game is causing desync and lag. When others with far shittier gear can get better results, something's wrong. Anyway, I'm pretty pissed about 1.0 . I will have to reroll completely as my build goes through the middle (aka I can only play scion now) and the new leagues are dead to me. Should the IIQ change come to the normal leagues in 4.5 months I will quit the game. Can you define competitive? Outside of racing there really is no competitive aspect in PoE. Sure you have the league ladders, but come on.. if your definition of being competitive means grinding for 12 hours a day I'd rather not be competitive. I can appreciate Baker hitting lvl 100 for example, he obviously put alot of time and effort into it, but that's kind of my point. In league ladders it's all about the amount of time you put into it, not really about your skill. At least I personally wouldn't use the word "competitive" in such a vague context, where the amount of time spent outweighs the skill required by such a huge factor. With dual spork and enough time on your hands, the only question really is "do you have enough time to get to 100?" and not "are you good enough to hit lvl 100." Personally, if anything, it's the fact that totems even exist in this game that ruins the actual game for me. That's part of the reason why I only play races. Because, not only, would I have to put in alot of time to be somewhere near the top, you actually have to play a totem build (preferably dual spork) to guarantee that nothing ever kills you. Put up two totems and chill, that to me personally, defies everything that ARPGs are about. It's in the word itself " action RPG" and not "click two buttons every 10 seconds and just sit behind a totem for the rest of the time RPG". I don't mean to be a dick, but... If you want competitive, SC2/DOTA/LOL is that way -----> It's absurd to talk about "competitive" for a RPG game. RPG games are about fun. Races are very competitive. You have defined your own argument in such a way that makes it necessarily true. Can't argue with that logic. I've never personally played one, but my understanding is that a lot of race has to do with having the right drops.
You always see the same players do well, good or bad RNG can sometimes make a couple level difference, but for the most part it has little impact on who does well and who doesn't.
And in any case, it doesn't even matter, you just openly admitted that your opinion is uninformed, so nobody cares and I'd advise you to keep your uninformed opnion to yourself in the future. And that's not even me being a dick, if you don't know what you're talking about... don't talk. It amazes me how, to some people, that isn't obvious.
And if you really think I'm being a dick here, please go back to your first comment and tell me more about how "absurd" it is that some of us enjoy racing and the competitive aspect of it, all the while being fully aware that you don't even know the first thing about it. Hypocrite.
P.S.: And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you don't have a right to express your opinion, but if even you are aware that your opinion is uninformed you are not contributing to the discussion. We are all entitled to have our own opinion, however if someone's opinion is uninformed and they choose to express it nontheless, they cannot expect to be taken seriously.
|
It doesn't take a genius to have informed opinions about the "competitiveness" of speed-running PoE contents.
Like I said, these games are about fun. I am sure the race leagues are "fun". I agree that it can be fun, but don't bother sugar-coating it.
|
Thing is, Variance, Slix and so forth consistently place highly in races (despite them complaining about terrible RNG like 90% of time) which suggests that skill must correlate with success in races.
|
On October 13 2013 12:11 Sufficiency wrote:
It doesn't take a genius to have informed opinions about the "competitiveness" of speed-running PoE contents.
Like I said, these games are about fun. I am sure the race leagues are "fun". I agree that it can be fun, but don't bother sugar-coating it.
Again here you are claiming that races aren't competitive, but you don't substantiate that with an argument, you just go "they are not competitive period". What's the point? At least tell us why you don't think they are competitive ("because they are not" is not an acceptable answer, because you could make that same argument against literally anything).
|
That's like saying Starcraft 2 isn't competitive because you can have a build order loss... of course races are competitive despite having to rely on some RNG
|
Races are definitely competetive. For Marauder for example Goratha was always dominating when he was playing. Nowadays it's usually Hybriis who is winning.
There are definitely some guys you almost always see in the top 10, like Hybriis, Condemned, CWU, Zoroxo, SlixSC, Helmannn or Grindis just to name a few.
Btw now it's a very boring time at PoE.  No Races, only Standard and Hardcore (neither of which I'll play after Release). Still wondering what char I should play after Release, although I'll definitely play the new Softcore league. Hardcore might be fun, but it's pretty discouraging to die despite doing nothing wrong. (Disconnects killed me a few times and Desync, while not bad with every type of playstyle, does definitely exist)
|
It's true that I make top 10 almost every race I do, but what truly shows how skillful this game is the fact that I am really bad compared to the very top players. Templar record in this season's signature was lvl 29 I think, my personal best (with really good rng) was high 26. When I watched cwu's templar vods for example there was so much I learned and I see so much I can still improve in my own races.
That, at least to me, demonstrates just how skillful and competitive racing is, players are watching vods and learning from the very best, there is a huge skill gap from good player to top player and unless the top players die they will almost always win, etc...
edit: By the way it seems that Alkaizer found 6!! uniques in the last 105m turbo solo and didn't get a top 3 record. What that tells you is that even great RNG doesn't guarantee a win if you don't have the skill to back it up (shots fired!)
And I really don't understand how Alkaizer has such great RNG, he almost never does any races, but the races he does he gets the best items ever. I think in the last two solo runs he did, he got 8 uniques, that's more than I got in 20 solo races combined.
Now put on your tinfoil hats people, but I think people like Kripp and Alkaizer have some sort of inherent RNG bonus, so to make sure that they enjoy the game. GGG wants the big names to play their game more than anything. Might not be true, but how often have you heard people say "Kripp is such a lucky motherfucker" and Alkaizer has insane RNG every race he does, as in RNG that is practically impossible, 1 unique every 15 minutes in a race, how can that even be?
And last season, didn't he find 4 uniques in 1 descent? He only ever does 5 races per season, but the the races he does, he just gets better RNG than everyone else. He is either the luckiest person on the face of this earth, or this isn't just a coincidence.
I have a hard time rationalizing this to myself. Doing alot of races, statistically speaking, increases your chances of getting good RNG in at least one of them. Alkaizer's RNG defies logic, as in he does less races than everyone else but has better RNG than everyone else. Nonsensical.
|
On October 13 2013 20:07 SlixSC wrote:
It's true that I make top 10 almost every race I do, but what truly shows how skillful this game is the fact that I am really bad compared to the very top players. Templar record in this season's signature was lvl 29 I think, my personal best (with really good rng) was high 26. When I watched cwu's templar vods for example there was so much I learned and I see so much I can still improve in my own races.
That, at least to me, demonstrates just how skillful and competitive racing is, players are watching vods and learning from the very best, there is a huge skill gap from good player to top player and unless the top players die they will almost always win, etc...
edit: By the way it seems that Alkaizer found 6!! uniques in the last 105m turbo solo and didn't get a top 3 record. What that tells you is that even great RNG doesn't guarantee a win if you don't have the skill to back it up (shots fired!)
And I really don't understand how Alkaizer has such great RNG, he almost never does any races, but the races he does he gets the best items ever. I think in the last two solo runs he did, he got 8 uniques, that's more than I got in 20 solo races combined.
Now put on your tinfoil hats people, but I think people like Kripp and Alkaizer have some sort of inherent RNG bonus, so to make sure that they enjoy the game. GGG wants the big names to play their game more than anything. Might not be true, but how often have you heard people say "Kripp is such a lucky motherfucker" and Alkaizer has insane RNG every race he does, as in RNG that is practically impossible, 1 unique every 15 minutes in a race, how can that even be?
Having watched Kripp several times, it does seem that his groups have been good at gathering uniques, but nothing more than that. But there is no way it is more than random luck. I have also seen him a couple levels behind in a one hour solo races because he didn't find the needed potion upgrades and weapon upgrades through the race. Playing a lot is a good way to accrue "lucky drop races".
Edit: That edit was well timed and reasonable. As for Alkaizer, I don't think cheating is possible in that area, even though making the game think you have way higher IIR is concievable. From the comments of GGG they never touch the RNG for anyone, including themself, on the live servers. Alkaizer is probably just a disciple of RNGsus.
|
On October 13 2013 20:42 radiatoren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 20:07 SlixSC wrote:
It's true that I make top 10 almost every race I do, but what truly shows how skillful this game is the fact that I am really bad compared to the very top players. Templar record in this season's signature was lvl 29 I think, my personal best (with really good rng) was high 26. When I watched cwu's templar vods for example there was so much I learned and I see so much I can still improve in my own races.
That, at least to me, demonstrates just how skillful and competitive racing is, players are watching vods and learning from the very best, there is a huge skill gap from good player to top player and unless the top players die they will almost always win, etc...
edit: By the way it seems that Alkaizer found 6!! uniques in the last 105m turbo solo and didn't get a top 3 record. What that tells you is that even great RNG doesn't guarantee a win if you don't have the skill to back it up (shots fired!)
And I really don't understand how Alkaizer has such great RNG, he almost never does any races, but the races he does he gets the best items ever. I think in the last two solo runs he did, he got 8 uniques, that's more than I got in 20 solo races combined.
Now put on your tinfoil hats people, but I think people like Kripp and Alkaizer have some sort of inherent RNG bonus, so to make sure that they enjoy the game. GGG wants the big names to play their game more than anything. Might not be true, but how often have you heard people say "Kripp is such a lucky motherfucker" and Alkaizer has insane RNG every race he does, as in RNG that is practically impossible, 1 unique every 15 minutes in a race, how can that even be? Having watched Kripp several times, it does seem that his groups have been good at gathering uniques, but nothing more than that. But there is no way it is more than random luck. I have also seen him a couple levels behind in a one hour solo races because he didn't find the needed potion upgrades and weapon upgrades through the race. Playing a lot is a good way to accrue "lucky drop races".
But that is exactly my point. Playing alot is a good way to increase your chances. However, with Alkaizer it has the opposite effect, he plays very few races but always has fantastic RNG.
I mean think about what you are trying to say here, you are saying "if you play alot your rng will be better", effectively agreeing with me that Alkaizer is either a statistical extreme (read as lucky fuck) or has some sort of inherent RNG bonus.
My comment about Kripp was more of an aside, since I don't really care about his past races and even said that it might not be true, but people often times say it.
edit: just saw your edit. I guess my point is that it doesn't really matter why his RNG is so much better than everyone else's, but it's very frustrating, because there were many people who did dozens of races this season and never got lucky, whereas Alkaizer did roughly 5 and apparently had good RNG in almost if not every single one of them. It just doesn't make any sense to me, how a single person can be so lucky. I mean can you imagine finding 6 uniques in a 105 minute race? Finding just 1 or 2 would be considered good RNG by pretty much everyone else.
|
So is the hrimnor resolve helmet (600 point reward) actually good? someone wants to buy mine for 18 exalts :O
edit: hard to spell
|
On October 13 2013 20:55 ZoRoXo wrote:
So is the hrimsorrow helmet (600 point reward) actually good? someone wants to buy mine for 18 exalts :O
He messaged me too. Don't sell it, these unique race rewards are only going to go up in value. A few years from now, if people still play PoE then, they will be paying a shit ton more than that, for something only very very few people have.
|
Yeah, but 18 exalts is like 3-4 times more than I've accumulated since like early closed beta up until now. Kinda have to take it.
|
On October 13 2013 21:01 ZoRoXo wrote:
Yeah, but 18 exalts is like 3-4 times more than I've accumulated since like early closed beta up until now. Kinda have to take it.
Well, but if you sell it two years from now you might get 50, so what's the hurry?
|
LOL. I'd totally take it too. 18 exalteds? Incredible, I thought it's a trash unique and didn't bother getting more points (didn't like any of the rewards too much tbh).
|
Doesn't matter if it's trash though, it's gonna be a collector's item a couple years down the road and it's only going to go up in value.
|
On October 13 2013 21:05 SlixSC wrote:
Doesn't matter if it's trash though, it's gonna be a collector's item a couple years down the road and it's only going to go up in value.
Yeah if you have faith that the game will be still relevant in 2 years and that you'll still play it at that point, you might want to keep it. Personally, I doubt it will but we'll see!
I also only have found 6 exalteds (and no Uniques worth >5 exalteds) so I'd definitely take the offer. Preferences I guess.
|
On October 13 2013 21:07 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2013 21:05 SlixSC wrote:
Doesn't matter if it's trash though, it's gonna be a collector's item a couple years down the road and it's only going to go up in value. Yeah if you have faith that the game will be still relevant in 2 years and that you'll still play it at that point, you might want to keep it. Personally, I doubt it will but we'll see!
Yeah, that's true it might not be relevant anymore in 2 years, but if it is I win 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
