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Tbh, when thinking about the conversation surrounding drops in PoE2 atm., my mind always went back to Diablo 2. Am I wrong or was Diablo 2 just way harder in terms of drops? People might have skewed memories because most of the time people would get rushed through the acts, power leveled and readily equiped. However, gearing your first char on a ladder reset self-found was pretty damn hard. Like, you were insanely lucky to have a good rare or unique in a slot for most of the campaign. It obviously got a lot easier with low-level runewords, but even with them I would argue gearing was at least as hard as it is in PoE2, even before the loot patch.
I also don't feel like PoE2 is more difficult than D2 in terms of progression. Most builds in D2 would struggle throughout the campaign on bosses/rares and even on some white mobs, just like in PoE2.
PoE2 is a new game, it's very complex and the sort of game where knowledge is the biggest key to success/power. The game already got a lot easier to play during the first two weeks after EA launch. I feel like people don't give themselves enough time to learn the game and find solutions to problems, which imho is what PoE excels at and is the most fun about the game. Of course, this is subjective and I understand if people don't want to invest the time and energy or don't find it enjoyable. That is ok! I just get the feeling that a lot of people don't accept that but rather jump onto conclusions about the game itself.
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I never played Diablo so I don't have anything to compare it to. This is my first game in this genre so I'm just giving my impressions as a complete n00b :D
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Yeah I think merc is definitely a slow starter that gets better once you get enough investment into speeding things up. Still a clunker in general until the laundry list of small issues gets addressed.
D2 gearing was never really hard, just pretty tedious due to the lack of variety. You'd just spam runs on the bosses at the end of acts and you'd pretty reliably start getting things to drop. Nightmare bosses still dropped decent amounts so you could just do that over hell until you got strong.
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On December 24 2024 04:07 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I never played Diablo so I don't have anything to compare it to. This is my first game in this genre so I'm just giving my impressions as a complete n00b :D
I wasn't talking about anyone specific, all good. 
On December 24 2024 05:30 Craton wrote:
Yeah I think merc is definitely a slow starter that gets better once you get enough investment into speeding things up. Still a clunker in general until the laundry list of small issues gets addressed.
D2 gearing was never really hard, just pretty tedious due to the lack of variety. You'd just spam runs on the bosses at the end of acts and you'd pretty reliably start getting things to drop. Nightmare bosses still dropped decent amounts so you could just do that over hell until you got strong.
Call it tedious, call it hard... You can do the same in PoE2 though? Before the patch the bosses would drop more gold instead of items, so you would have needed to use the vendor/gamble option more. Nobody does it in PoE2 though and people still expect to get an upgrade at every corner and yellow items in every slot. That's the difference that I'm seeing.
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I think you're really overestimating how much poe campaign bosses drop and how good their drops are. Pre-patch the campaign bosses were completely worthless - I watched Steelmage spend 12 hours or so farming bosses in cruel a3 and get nothing. Post-patch you get 1-2 randomly rolled rares per boss kill and no tiered drops. The uniques found in the campaign are of pretty limited value.
D2 had no endgame; the campaign was the entire game. Uber diablo and the cow level were the closest thing to an endgame, but were still a pretty small part overall. Since there's no game post-campaign, the bosses in the campaign dropped all the good loot, particularly the high value uniques. This is not the case with poe where the better uniques, higher mod tiers, tiered rares, meta currency, etc. all exist exclusively in the endgame (maps, bosses, simulacrum, etc).
You can make some money in the campaign, but frankly you'll get more in white maps than farming campaign bosses.
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Well, maybe my memory is off but I also remember farming bosses in D2 on ladder reset for hours without getting anything. Meanwhile, I didn't farm a boss on my first playthrough of PoE2 once and it was a slow playthrough and sometimes the build lacked some equipment for sure but it was managable. And that's without knowing the game at all.
You are obviously correct about the barely existing endgame in D2. However, I think that's not really the point, is it? The point was to gear up while you go with level or difficulty appropiate gear you can get from where you are in the game. You don't need gear from the endgame to play the campaign in PoE2. People were complaining about not getting any upgrades during the playthrough. And I'm arguing that's not worse than in D2 but actually easier.
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I dunno, it's been awhile since I played d2. My memory is of blasting new chars through hell regularly without much stopping or leveling gear. Another thing to consider with D2 is that the time from joining a game to reaching a boss is extremely short, while poe campaign bosses can be a real slog to reach.
I've leveled two chars through to maps now on both sides of the patch. Pre-patch I was still using act 1 gear in maps and definitely not res capped. Post-patch the gear was a little better, plus I had some gear saved and got some more from a friend. I still had multiple slots of act1-2 gear. Hell, I *still* have four pieces of gear equipped with level 28-35 requirements and I've done dozens of maps on this char.
Zizaran recently had the take that early gear (campaign through ~T12) drops are awful while T13+ are too high. I don't know if he's correct; I'm not at high tiers yet. I've been trying to push myself to keep playing to see if the lategame is more enjoyable, but it's been a bit of an uphill battle.
In any event, I've been playing a mostly SSF style and it's been a real struggle to find or make improvements over even pretty bad gear while trying to be pretty liberal with using expedition currency and orbs.
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SSF is very feast or famine, while trade is extremely OP. same as always but it feels more pronounced in poe2. There's few sources of "guaranteed" power, like bench craft, spam lab (gem quality / transfigured gem), heist, etc. If you are in a rut, it's hard to get out... but trading just a few exalts for a unique or some res gear can trivialize the campaign. I know the game should never be directly balanced for SSF, I prefer trade myself, but the relative balance seems off to me. They seem to want us to struggle, use exalts on our own gear, check vendors a lot, which is kinda fun, but the current trade economy makes that play pattern a pretty sub optimal choice.
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Hi can you add me to the team liquid guild?
kirby_rerollmao
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Don't know exactly how close I am to beating act 3. Just hit trial of chaos though. Might go roam around the act 3 maps to find a freaking lvl 2 support gem so I can get on my build.
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guild is full atm Kirby, will add more slots asap
Ultimatum trial can be really tough, dont feel bad if you have to farm / progress further before coming back for it
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I can help with some points, but unfortunately, only Rev can buy things for the guild. (which is kind of stupid)
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On December 25 2024 16:56 EchelonTee wrote:
guild is full atm Kirby, will add more slots asap
Ultimatum trial can be really tough, dont feel bad if you have to farm / progress further before coming back for it
I'm level 38? I dunno if that's under or over the typical limit. But I got through 2-3 rooms? Maybe 4 before I kicked the bucket. So yeah...might go catch 2 more levels and hope a gem drops
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On December 25 2024 21:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2024 16:56 EchelonTee wrote:
guild is full atm Kirby, will add more slots asap
Ultimatum trial can be really tough, dont feel bad if you have to farm / progress further before coming back for it I'm level 38? I dunno if that's under or over the typical limit. But I got through 2-3 rooms? Maybe 4 before I kicked the bucket. So yeah...might go catch 2 more levels and hope a gem drops
Iirc, the area level is 38. So going there on the same level without proper gear will be very hard. I don't remember exactly what level I was when I first tried it but it was definitely higher than 38 and I got my butt kicked. I think they nerfed a bit since then but not sure...
If you need a gem of a certain level, you can surely ping the guild or look in the guild stash if it's already there.
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On December 25 2024 22:29 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2024 21:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On December 25 2024 16:56 EchelonTee wrote:
guild is full atm Kirby, will add more slots asap
Ultimatum trial can be really tough, dont feel bad if you have to farm / progress further before coming back for it I'm level 38? I dunno if that's under or over the typical limit. But I got through 2-3 rooms? Maybe 4 before I kicked the bucket. So yeah...might go catch 2 more levels and hope a gem drops Iirc, the area level is 38. So going there on the same level without proper gear will be very hard. I don't remember exactly what level I was when I first tried it but it was definitely higher than 38 and I got my butt kicked. I think they nerfed a bit since then but not sure... If you need a gem of a certain level, you can surely ping the guild or look in the guild stash if it's already there.
I'm not in the guild lol. I was debating on asking for an invite but I was playing with someone so I didn't. But yeah, If anyone has a lvl 2 support or lvl 8 spirit, my IGN is DeadlyPacifist. I'll trade some low level stuff for it :p
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On December 25 2024 19:02 nukem1 wrote:
I can help with some points, but unfortunately, only Rev can buy things for the guild. (which is kind of stupid)
that would be nice ^^ will ask for donations once holidays pass a bit and can see how much we need
invited Kirby and passing some gems to ZeroCool
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On December 26 2024 03:40 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2024 19:02 nukem1 wrote:
I can help with some points, but unfortunately, only Rev can buy things for the guild. (which is kind of stupid) that would be nice ^^ will ask for donations once holidays pass a bit and can see how much we need invited Kirby and passing some gems to ZeroCool
I appreciate it! Got the skill to work and now I just need to get off the phone so I can actually spend time on getting it to where it needs to be.
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I was level 68 when I did my second ascendancy. I think Jonathan and Mark took it personally that people hate lab so much and were like "if you think lab is bad, wait until you get to trial of sekhema and chaos." It's really hard for me to overstate how much I dislike all three.
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On December 26 2024 12:44 Craton wrote:
I was level 68 when I did my second ascendancy. I think Jonathan and Mark took it personally that people hate lab so much and were like "if you think lab is bad, wait until you get to trial of sekhema and chaos." It's really hard for me to overstate how much I dislike all three.
For me as a sorceress (stormweaver), ranger (deadeye) and witch (infernalist) the first trial was a freebie. The trial of the Sekhemas REALLY punishes melee builds disproportionally to ranged ones. I easily did it around level ~26/27ish.
I thought the ultimatum would also be a freebie since I really liked ultimatums in PoE 1... but they really dialed it up to 12/10 in PoE2. It's honestly a nightmare. The shades that haunt you (if you pick them) are relentless and precise, and the size of the physical bubble that pops easily covers 3/4ths of the screen. It's a complete nightmare to have to escort the floating obelisk from point A to point B with those 2 modifiers. Thankfully you only need to do 3 rounds and the 4th is a boss round.
You get your 3rd ascension at around level 66/68. Haven't done mine yet, but that seems rough. I've heard people wait till level 90+ to do their 4th ascension, and are weill into T15 maps, maybe even juicing T17/18s.
The other wierd thing for me is how late you get your 5th and 6th link. You start on a 3-link (skill gem and 2 supports) and by act 2/3 you can upgrade to a 4-link (skill and 3 supports), but 5-link? I think the 2nd tier of jeweler's orbs starts to drop only in maps, like level 66/68+...
And as an infernalist I heard from Kripp and Ghazzy that the infernal doggo gets its last support gem socket at 90+...
I'm just wondering, do they truly expect people to stick for that long in a season? I think a lot of people will simply get filtered before hitting 90.
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Both sanctum and ultimatum were fine for me on Infernalist SRS, did them a few levels after they dropped (pretty much ssf gear).
The ice strike monk was a different experience, with Sanctum being pretty easy overall (did buy a weapon before), but a frustrating Ultimatum, which took me about 10 tries (was obstinate to get it done) because of mods and some stupid mistakes on my part. [did not realise that the inscribed thing did now disappear after failing and bought another, the lowest one being area lvl43, mine dropped lvl 38]
Is the Stormweaver spark build fun/chill? Saw a few ppl play that, might try that too. (also, is it particularly expensive?)
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EPT
