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Miragee
8692 Posts
I also loaded my old poison arrow trapper to test some stuff and...did traps always take this long arming? I remember just throwing traps into enemies and they would explode immediately. Now it takes forever. : / The changes on Frost Orb though. It's not an underused skill at all, they just want it to become a main skill instead of utility... I wonder how it will look like with the new AoE and damage... I will likely try it later in the league. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5262 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On January 12 2021 10:19 EchelonTee wrote: did they announce the pathing changes for everything yet ? like for the ascendency trees themselves All of the reworked ascendancies should be here, with mouse-over and everything | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10932 Posts
On January 12 2021 09:18 WaveofShadow wrote: Is flicker remotely viable this time around? Multibossfightleague? Think and take a guess. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5262 Posts
I think I'm just going to say fuck it and play Slayer. one of my OG loves | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Um, thanks | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
I think Ritual is the league. The multi boss is core and every league from now on. As I understand it, the multi boss fights are the things that unlock the atlas passive. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Slayer: Much more interesting now that overleech is easier to get. Gladiator: Fans of staves will be so happy. I got to say that I LOVE Sweep with staves, but not sure if I wanna play a melee again. Bleed builds got nerfed a bit here (why though? I guess Earthquake was a bit strong but meh). Champion: Now this one is interesting. I guess it screams "NERFED!" but there are some strong buffs here. Conqueror is giving a massive amount of damage reduction now and the little nodes give fortify effect. I think defensively it's stronger now, just gonna be harder to get big DPS now. Assassin: What didn't change: It still gives massive amounts of damage, but they slowed its movement speed down a bit. Saboteur: Still strong, hard for me to say if it even got nerfed. High-Impact miners might become the miner meta now. Trickster: Some well deserved nerfs, will still be good. Juggernaut: Well, the accuracy thing is interesting and maybe even a buff for the builds that stack accuracy? Otherwise basically the same. Berserker: Wow, this one got straight up buffed. If you want massive attack damage / attack speed, this one has it. Chieftain: A little bit less regeneration, but for some builds some more damage. Necromancer: Heavy nerfs, and I guess this one is not entirely well done. For example, minion duration nerf... why? Even Spectre nerf is a difficult topic, there are many Spectres that are not great. In my opinion all that they needed to do is nerf golems, nerf the actual godlike Spectres (I guess the problem is that there are too many of them?) and that's pretty much it. Occultist: Without the need of specing the explosion it might be good for Essence Drain again, and even something like self cast Dark Pact could be strong with it. In general pretty good for Chaos / Cold stuff. Elementalist: Wow, looks dope for ignite with skills like Divine Ire, Fireball or Penance Brand. Deadeye: Probably got nerfed a bit for many skills, but surely not for all of them. Don't really have an opinion on this one. Raider: Seems much stronger to me, really good one for speed & dodge/evasion. Pathfinder: Looks good for Chaos conversion builds such as Blade Vortex maybe? Decent changes considering I've never played Herald of Agony stuff. Inquisitor: Definitely interesting changes, does seem quite good but will need the right build for it to shine (especially the str/int stacking thing and the battlemage thing). Guardian: Small changes, whatever. Hierophant: If +1 totem summoned is not on the passive tree, it sucks a lot of Ballista but normal totem builds will still be OKish I guess. Mana Archmage Hierophant will still be great. Ascendant: Looks a lot more relevant now, Slayer is bonkers and you can combine it with say Deadeye/Raider and it should be pretty good. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 09 2021 19:59 EchelonTee wrote: I think you're a bit harsh though, Evo. Blight and Metamorph are pretty straight forward tbh. Blight is just a bit tedious after a while. Incursion is generally liked for the pack size, even if one ignores the temple. I think if they just cleaned up Betrayal and Heist, things would be better. (also I miss synthesis ;-; ) After thinking about it longer, yeah. Those two and Incursion are much closer to nice core additions than the "big ones". I think overall if "big content" that goes core is done like Delve it's great. It adds on and expands the base game with unique mechancs, offers unique rewards that can be traded all while not or just barely being mandatory (socket crafts) to enjoy the overall game. On the other hand that makes for a comparatively boring league mechanic because it's not invasive in the slightest. I do actually like "Delve as a core addition" wayyy more than "Delve as a league mechanic" because of these trade-offs. =D ...the more I think about it the more "things that make great additions for the core game" and "things that make for a great league" just end up being at odds quite a bit. I really liked e.g. Betrayal (and Heist!) as a league but end up resenting things like that in core because now they feel mandatory. Bestiary is definitely a cool example of a league that felt invasive and fun and now is nice additional content from a previous league. Enough things like that on top of each other and it becomes weird. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 12 2021 20:57 HolydaKing wrote: Some short thoughts each of the ascendancy class changes: + Show Spoiler + Slayer: Much more interesting now that overleech is easier to get. Gladiator: Fans of staves will be so happy. I got to say that I LOVE Sweep with staves, but not sure if I wanna play a melee again. Bleed builds got nerfed a bit here (why though? I guess Earthquake was a bit strong but meh). Champion: Now this one is interesting. I guess it screams "NERFED!" but there are some strong buffs here. Conqueror is giving a massive amount of damage reduction now and the little nodes give fortify effect. I think defensively it's stronger now, just gonna be harder to get big DPS now. Assassin: What didn't change: It still gives massive amounts of damage, but they slowed its movement speed down a bit. Saboteur: Still strong, hard for me to say if it even got nerfed. High-Impact miners might become the miner meta now. Trickster: Some well deserved nerfs, will still be good. Juggernaut: Well, the accuracy thing is interesting and maybe even a buff for the builds that stack accuracy? Otherwise basically the same. Berserker: Wow, this one got straight up buffed. If you want massive attack damage / attack speed, this one has it. Chieftain: A little bit less regeneration, but for some builds some more damage. Necromancer: Heavy nerfs, and I guess this one is not entirely well done. For example, minion duration nerf... why? Even Spectre nerf is a difficult topic, there are many Spectres that are not great. In my opinion all that they needed to do is nerf golems, nerf the actual godlike Spectres (I guess the problem is that there are too many of them?) and that's pretty much it. Occultist: Without the need of specing the explosion it might be good for Essence Drain again, and even something like self cast Dark Pact could be strong with it. In general pretty good for Chaos / Cold stuff. Elementalist: Wow, looks dope for ignite with skills like Divine Ire, Fireball or Penance Brand. Deadeye: Probably got nerfed a bit for many skills, but surely not for all of them. Don't really have an opinion on this one. Raider: Seems much stronger to me, really good one for speed & dodge/evasion. Pathfinder: Looks good for Chaos conversion builds such as Blade Vortex maybe? Decent changes considering I've never played Herald of Agony stuff. Inquisitor: Definitely interesting changes, does seem quite good but will need the right build for it to shine (especially the str/int stacking thing and the battlemage thing). Guardian: Small changes, whatever. Hierophant: If +1 totem summoned is not on the passive tree, it sucks a lot of Ballista but normal totem builds will still be OKish I guess. Mana Archmage Hierophant will still be great. Ascendant: Looks a lot more relevant now, Slayer is bonkers and you can combine it with say Deadeye/Raider and it should be pretty good. Raider is a bit of a wtf. Permanent Onslaught/Phasing, 180% inc Onslaught effect, immunity to ailments, 15% attack/spell dodge, enemies have -20% ele resists around you. The Onslaught translates to 56% Movement/Attack/Cast speed. Add an Adrenaline Quicksilver an you're at 126% movement speed. =D The Frenzy route also seems decent but let's be real, caster Raider is the true endgame. Pathfinder was a buff to HoA builds and not much else, right? Deadeye the Barrage thingy alone makes it into an insane boss killer I'd wager. What I'm curious is if you can think about clearing packs with Barrage at this point. Spectres feel nuked unless I missed some opop build from last league. ...I'm really tempted to just make some cool Raider for my SC adventures, gotta go fast! | ||
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Miragee
8692 Posts
On January 12 2021 20:57 HolydaKing wrote: Some short thoughts each of the ascendancy class changes: + Show Spoiler + Slayer: Much more interesting now that overleech is easier to get. Gladiator: Fans of staves will be so happy. I got to say that I LOVE Sweep with staves, but not sure if I wanna play a melee again. Bleed builds got nerfed a bit here (why though? I guess Earthquake was a bit strong but meh). Champion: Now this one is interesting. I guess it screams "NERFED!" but there are some strong buffs here. Conqueror is giving a massive amount of damage reduction now and the little nodes give fortify effect. I think defensively it's stronger now, just gonna be harder to get big DPS now. Assassin: What didn't change: It still gives massive amounts of damage, but they slowed its movement speed down a bit. Saboteur: Still strong, hard for me to say if it even got nerfed. High-Impact miners might become the miner meta now. Trickster: Some well deserved nerfs, will still be good. Juggernaut: Well, the accuracy thing is interesting and maybe even a buff for the builds that stack accuracy? Otherwise basically the same. Berserker: Wow, this one got straight up buffed. If you want massive attack damage / attack speed, this one has it. Chieftain: A little bit less regeneration, but for some builds some more damage. Necromancer: Heavy nerfs, and I guess this one is not entirely well done. For example, minion duration nerf... why? Even Spectre nerf is a difficult topic, there are many Spectres that are not great. In my opinion all that they needed to do is nerf golems, nerf the actual godlike Spectres (I guess the problem is that there are too many of them?) and that's pretty much it. Occultist: Without the need of specing the explosion it might be good for Essence Drain again, and even something like self cast Dark Pact could be strong with it. In general pretty good for Chaos / Cold stuff. Elementalist: Wow, looks dope for ignite with skills like Divine Ire, Fireball or Penance Brand. Deadeye: Probably got nerfed a bit for many skills, but surely not for all of them. Don't really have an opinion on this one. Raider: Seems much stronger to me, really good one for speed & dodge/evasion. Pathfinder: Looks good for Chaos conversion builds such as Blade Vortex maybe? Decent changes considering I've never played Herald of Agony stuff. Inquisitor: Definitely interesting changes, does seem quite good but will need the right build for it to shine (especially the str/int stacking thing and the battlemage thing). Guardian: Small changes, whatever. Hierophant: If +1 totem summoned is not on the passive tree, it sucks a lot of Ballista but normal totem builds will still be OKish I guess. Mana Archmage Hierophant will still be great. Ascendant: Looks a lot more relevant now, Slayer is bonkers and you can combine it with say Deadeye/Raider and it should be pretty good. I agree with this mostly. There are some weird changes like +1 Totems or the regen on Chieftain but they aren't the end of the world. Most hard nerfs hit classes that will still be very strong and if you look into the details, a lot of those classes got some interesting tweaks. Overall I don't get the insane hate GGG seems to get for these changes. People make it sound like all those top tier builds are completely dead, 100% nerfs, 0% buffs, GGG destroying all the fun etc. lol. I wonder what people think "viable" means. I personally like changes that make ascendencies more of flair choice than a raw power choice. That's why I really like some of the changes, especially to Raider, Berserker, Inquisitor and Elementalist. And as you Ascendant got some cool changes as well. I think it was in an interesting spot before the changes and now it's even more interesting. On this note, I wish they would do the same with cluster jewels. Make them more interesting instead of straight up more powerful. I dislike the idea that the most "optimal" passive tree is, in a lot of cases, going to the large jewel nodes and spec 70 % of your points into cluster jewels nodes. Takes away all the fun of the passive tree imho, which should be a large part of what makes PoE character planning (or it is to me at least). On January 12 2021 23:15 r.Evo wrote: After thinking about it longer, yeah. Those two and Incursion are much closer to nice core additions than the "big ones". I think overall if "big content" that goes core is done like Delve it's great. It adds on and expands the base game with unique mechancs, offers unique rewards that can be traded all while not or just barely being mandatory (socket crafts) to enjoy the overall game. On the other hand that makes for a comparatively boring league mechanic because it's not invasive in the slightest. I do actually like "Delve as a core addition" wayyy more than "Delve as a league mechanic" because of these trade-offs. =D ...the more I think about it the more "things that make great additions for the core game" and "things that make for a great league" just end up being at odds quite a bit. I really liked e.g. Betrayal (and Heist!) as a league but end up resenting things like that in core because now they feel mandatory. Bestiary is definitely a cool example of a league that felt invasive and fun and now is nice additional content from a previous league. Enough things like that on top of each other and it becomes weird. I'm curious, why does Heist feel mandatory to you but Delve doesn't? //On a different note: I saw nugi testing Frost Bomb and he was destroying a T12 map with a lvl 14 Frost Bomb and the only real damage link being a lvl 5 or so archmage... Granted he had a 6L Pledge of Hands but that is kinda mandatory for Frost Bomb anyways if you want to make it your main skill. The rest of the gear was pretty whatever and the pathing was...suboptimal. And this was, obviously, without the buffs to ascendencies and Frost Bomb. Makes me want to try it later on in the league even more. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5262 Posts
Pathfinder got HP recov and better Surgeon's mod (cooldown of 0.1s instead of 0.2s per flask charge on crit). You could go classic Flaskfinder, take ailment immunity + surgeon's mod, drop HP flask while still having life recovery. Seems like a fun build for later in the league, and good for bossing | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 12 2021 23:57 Miragee wrote: I'm curious, why does Heist feel mandatory to you but Delve doesn't? Because I'm dumb and somehow thought the item rewards can't be traded because I played SSF last league. ;; Betrayal is an example of a league I liked but don't as much anymore now that it's core because it's pretty much mandatory (veiled items), Heist actually should be nice when it goes core unless I'm forgetting something. <3 One last thing I miss a bit but where I'm not sure if there's an easy solution are some form of shortcuts between those more complex things. e.g. a way to speed up Azurite gain once you're in T15 maps or a way to speed up levelling your Heist guys once you're at 150+ Delve. No clue if GGG will ever get to that point but damn would it be nice to be able to avoid that early grindy stage that doesn't even give xp because you're now way above it. On January 13 2021 00:44 EchelonTee wrote: are you going to play SC at league start Evo? I'm debating what to play personally. Pathfinder got HP recov and better Surgeon's mod (cooldown of 0.1s instead of 0.2s per flask charge on crit). You could go classic Flaskfinder, take ailment immunity + surgeon's mod, drop HP flask while still having life recovery. Seems like a fun build for later in the league, and good for bossing Yeah I'm SC boi now. I sometimes still have minor issues with performance where I'm not sure if it's a Linux or a game issue and I don't feel like relevelling anymore because of dumb stuff while the league is in it's two weeks of betatesting. The one thing i really fucking miss is HC economy but welp. SSF was fun in its own ways actually, but I'm much more inclined to go trade this time. | ||
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Miragee
8692 Posts
On January 13 2021 01:00 r.Evo wrote: Because I'm dumb and somehow thought the item rewards can't be traded because I played SSF last league. ;; Betrayal is an example of a league I liked but don't as much anymore now that it's core because it's pretty much mandatory (veiled items), Heist actually should be nice when it goes core unless I'm forgetting something. <3 One last thing I miss a bit but where I'm not sure if there's an easy solution are some form of shortcuts between those more complex things. e.g. a way to speed up Azurite gain once you're in T15 maps or a way to speed up levelling your Heist guys once you're at 150+ Delve. No clue if GGG will ever get to that point but damn would it be nice to be able to avoid that early grindy stage that doesn't even give xp because you're now way above it. Ah cool, that makes sense. I also agree with Betrayel. One change I would instantly make to Betrayel is, that you can't find duplicates in regards to the crafting porgression. There is more than one solution to this but you could for example make unveils give you a certain number of points to spend with Jun to unlock the crafts from a list. Maybe you have to unveil each craftable option once to unlock it on the list in case you want to keep some of the randomness (I don't but others/GGG maybe do). The second part I'm on the fence with but I generally agree with you as well. Taking away mostly arbitrary grind would be nice. On the other hand, PoE is mostly a progression and grind game. I would be more vehemently arguing for your proposal if it was a game with an approach similar to GW or so. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On January 13 2021 01:00 r.Evo wrote: One last thing I miss a bit but where I'm not sure if there's an easy solution are some form of shortcuts between those more complex things. e.g. a way to speed up Azurite gain once you're in T15 maps or a way to speed up levelling your Heist guys once you're at 150+ Delve. No clue if GGG will ever get to that point but damn would it be nice to be able to avoid that early grindy stage that doesn't even give xp because you're now way above it. Isn't exactly this possible via the new atlas skilltrees? I don't know how easy respeccing is going to be, haven't watched the reveal trailer. | ||
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Miragee
8692 Posts
On January 13 2021 01:14 clusen wrote: Isn't exactly this possible via the new atlas skilltrees? I don't know how easy respeccing is going to be, haven't watched the reveal trailer. I think what he meant was leveling/equiping the rogues or in Delve to upgrade your capacity/resistance etc. Basically arbitrary barriers that keep your from doing higher "level", more difficult content your character is already equiped to do from other areas of the game. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
1) Harder difficulty and better reward ((common) 2) Better reward ((unxommon) 3) easier difficulty (very) | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On January 13 2021 01:19 Miragee wrote: I think what he meant was leveling/equiping the rogues or in Delve to upgrade your capacity/resistance etc. Basically arbitrary barriers that keep your from doing higher "level", more difficult content your character is already equiped to do from other areas of the game. Yeah, that. Or even just stuff like another tunnel that starts deeper once you accomplished X via another mechanic (killed Betrayal boss, done tier X heists, cleared Guardians, anything like that). I enjoy the grindy parts while you're on a similar tier of strength as the content you're doing, but doing level 70 content on your 90+ character to catch up with a different mechanic always just felt boring to me. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On January 13 2021 05:20 r.Evo wrote: Yeah, that. Or even just stuff like another tunnel that starts deeper once you accomplished X via another mechanic (killed Betrayal boss, done tier X heists, cleared Guardians, anything like that). I enjoy the grindy parts while you're on a similar tier of strength as the content you're doing, but doing level 70 content on your 90+ character to catch up with a different mechanic always just felt boring to me. I am having a hard time seeing what passive atlas nodes have to do with low content on high level char. The passive will mostly give higher rewards and difficulty or same difficulty and same or lower difficulty and same rewards. Its kinda up to you to choose, and like all Poe u can just choose a low level map with bad rewards and after some time u will get and ex . | ||
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