EPTDoFL is just NOT reliable enough without vaal pact imo in really any situation
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
DoFL is just NOT reliable enough without vaal pact imo in really any situation | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
That's by far the most reliable constant-flicker setup outside of oros/terminus of course, but there are other options. Raider for example is reasonably close to perma-flicker assuming your damage is good, so with a few extra frenzy charge generation methods tacked on (poachers mark, various other frenzy charge on kill mechanics, ice bite + herald of ice, etc) you can do it with any weapon, at the cost of it not being quiiiiiite 100% permanently reliable (you'd probably have to run a frenzy gem somewhere JUST IN CASE). If you are willing to accept flicker for everything except bosses, and use a different link for bosses, then it really opens up as most frenzy charge generation is on kill which works just fine for clearing trash as long as you are willing to bust out a separate skill for bossing. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 15 2017 02:17 Sn0_Man wrote: If you want to scale the balls (i kinda forgot that melee phys doesn't work on them, good point) just run weapon elemental damage or added fire. DoFL is just NOT reliable enough without vaal pact imo in really any situation I kind of disagree, as it depends on the skill. I've used DoFL as the 6th link on Sunder as Champion/Gladiator (i.e. no VP or Slayer leech) and have never found problems with it during general mapping. It's kind of shitty in certain situations but for pure mapping clearspeed when you *are* just sitting on full life 95% of the time, it's a big more multiplier for skills that don't necessarily have great 6th link options. The 5% of the time where you drop down to having a 5L doesn't outweigh your improved clearspeed the other 95% of the time. That said, Molten Strike has access to enough more reliable more multipliers that you don't need to resort to using DoFL. 4-link should definitely be Molten + Ancestral + Multi + EDWA. The 5th and 6th links have so many options (Added Fire, Conc, Ele Focus) that you don't really need DoFL. On December 15 2017 02:07 Duka08 wrote: - Dmg on full life looked better in PoB because it applies to the balls of MS and not only the initial melee hit? It simmed to be a much bigger gain. But yeah, during leveling it was easy to have full life, now not as much, will probably switch and save that for later 5/6L. DoFL is *always* going to look good in PoB because it's a bigger more multiplier than basically anything else when you're on full life. The downside is essentially losing a link when you take significant damage. It's a lower priority than reliable more multipliers like Melee Phys and EDWA. Once you get down to things that do less damage, it gets a little iffier, but Molten Strike has enough options that it shouldn't need to use DoFL. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
I've got a WED on deck now to start using, but I hadn't thought about Conc Effect or Ele Focus either. Will do more PoB fiddling to see what works out the best I guess. Though I don't fully trust PoB when it comes to the balls. Or AoE in general I guess. I think a rule of thumb would be, if the balls component gets bigger in PoB it's going to be EVEN better aoe in actual practice because PoB is only doing single target, right? Oh yeah, anyone have their favorite CWDT options? Slash alternatives to Immortal Call / Enfeeble, mostly out of curiosity. I thought about removing IC until I get O&O for reliable/faster Endurance charge generation, but I don't even know what I'd replace it with so meh. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
On December 15 2017 05:11 Sn0_Man wrote: There's a new unique jewel that reflects bleeds you cause back to you, which enables the red trail breach unique boots which have a mod "Gain a frenzy charge on hit while bleeding" which means that you can flicker forever no problem if you are bleeding. The problem here is that if you are doing significant amounts of physical damage, your reflected bleeds are going to absolutely annihilate yourself. There are a few ways to mitigate this, but the easiest as far as I know are either figuring out a very very reliable Immortal Call setup or else doing virtually no physical damage (maybe converting it all for example, although you do have to do a very small amount to get the bleed to exist). That's by far the most reliable constant-flicker setup outside of oros/terminus of course, but there are other options. Raider for example is reasonably close to perma-flicker assuming your damage is good, so with a few extra frenzy charge generation methods tacked on (poachers mark, various other frenzy charge on kill mechanics, ice bite + herald of ice, etc) you can do it with any weapon, at the cost of it not being quiiiiiite 100% permanently reliable (you'd probably have to run a frenzy gem somewhere JUST IN CASE). If you are willing to accept flicker for everything except bosses, and use a different link for bosses, then it really opens up as most frenzy charge generation is on kill which works just fine for clearing trash as long as you are willing to bust out a separate skill for bossing. Read about an interesting take on raider flicker; ngamahus axe with conc (and or gmp?) to get reliable frenzy generation on singeltarget. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On December 15 2017 07:28 TheYango wrote: Honestly, I don't even really like CWDT+IC that much on Gladiator with O&O, I just run it with Enfeeble only. O&O rewards you so much for being at full charges you often don't want to be dropping them all the time rather than just keeping the combined damage reduction. Yeah I'm really feeling that now that I'm actually bothering to try and keep my End.charges up... No other decent alternatives though? Just an ez CWDT+feeble? I'll keep my golem on there too like I have been. Means I could migrate it to a 3L, though I don't think I'd do anything with the open 4L (maybe long term that's better to get used to because of Koam items idk) Other builds I've used in the past just tossed things like BV or bladefall or something in there for some quick leech in a pinch I think but that seems useless without all the Slayer/VP juice. Molten Shell maybe idk. All minor probably. The enfeeble alone helps enough. Maybe a second Enduring Cry while I have the red slot, for max lazy lol Edit: nvm enduring cry doesn't work :| | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
If I'm using a 2-link CWDT setup, I just throw it in a 4-link with my auras. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
The only thing it's "weird" with is nodes that grant both armour % and evasion %, which it's supposed to NOT double count but has double counted in some cases because it's manually excluded and so they add new ones and forget lul | ||
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ASoo
2866 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 15 2017 05:11 Sn0_Man wrote: There's a new unique jewel that reflects bleeds you cause back to you, which enables the red trail breach unique boots which have a mod "Gain a frenzy charge on hit while bleeding" which means that you can flicker forever no problem if you are bleeding. The problem here is that if you are doing significant amounts of physical damage, your reflected bleeds are going to absolutely annihilate yourself. There are a few ways to mitigate this, but the easiest as far as I know are either figuring out a very very reliable Immortal Call setup or else doing virtually no physical damage (maybe converting it all for example, although you do have to do a very small amount to get the bleed to exist). That's by far the most reliable constant-flicker setup outside of oros/terminus of course, but there are other options. Raider for example is reasonably close to perma-flicker assuming your damage is good, so with a few extra frenzy charge generation methods tacked on (poachers mark, various other frenzy charge on kill mechanics, ice bite + herald of ice, etc) you can do it with any weapon, at the cost of it not being quiiiiiite 100% permanently reliable (you'd probably have to run a frenzy gem somewhere JUST IN CASE). If you are willing to accept flicker for everything except bosses, and use a different link for bosses, then it really opens up as most frenzy charge generation is on kill which works just fine for clearing trash as long as you are willing to bust out a separate skill for bossing. Not entirely sure what build would be. Raider sounds interesting but I feel like slayer is just too good now after the vp nerf? Was considering maybe starforge and doing 5l flicker and 6l heavy strike or something for boss killing? Saw a video of a guy in 3.0 killing shaper In a few seconds with starforge heavy strike and using a 5l flicker for thr trash but that was berserker and pre vp nerf so not sure if that would work now. I think slayer is just better now but maybe I'm wrong. An expensive alternative which I doubt I'll do is 2 starforge 1 for flicker 1 for single target. Did that last league with doom fletch but that was much cheaper than starforge lol. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
Initial situation of my Atlas, I'm trying to push him into Promenade/Racecourse for my higher tier Shaper Orbs. After doing Precinct (T10, the only yellow map connected to a red map) Elder Influence spreads into all T10s in range - including Shipyard (was Shaper controlled) and Bog (was neutral). After running Bog for the orb it spread further, all the way up to Geode, further right from Shipyard and it even took Phantasmagoria back from Shaperbro. Going to do a Waste Pool next and see if that will cut off the entire upwards portion. After Waste Pool (worked as intended, even pushed into Promenade by itself). After getting Orb from Promenade (obvious result, wtb Promenade). tl;dr: Push him towards your preferred red maps, cut off long winded paths to ensure he stays small. Do a Shaper Map next to him so he moves up, then do the same map again for the orb. Repeat upwards in tiers. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On December 15 2017 18:15 HolydaKing wrote: Yeah that's what I thought so far. So it seems like it'll be much more expensive to get Shaped maps only on your Atlas, no? You would need to remove much more maps if you want to push the Elder far to the red tier maps. Yes. And you have to spend more to get there as well. For example I had to do the Shaper-controlled Racecourse twice, first to move Elder there and then again to get the orb. If I wanted to move up another tier I'd have to do Racecourse to flip it back to Elder and then the next tier twice again as well. So for T12+T13 orb the minimum would be 3xT12 + 2xT13 that can only drop from the T12 at that point in time. Basically rushing the orbs is fine in a developed league with some money but really hard during the first few days now. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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