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On October 03 2017 18:23 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:22 sob3k wrote:On September 28 2017 06:07 Glacierz wrote:
How much HP/damage reduction do you need to survive a Shaper slam? I have over 7k and still get one shot. I think it does around 12k without mitigation I don't like these kind of fights that only depend on your reflexes. Not for people like me :D
I was playing a cyclone discharge build when I first fought him. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but cyclone does not stop immediately after you release the key. This is super annoying because it makes dodging huge hits very difficult even when you see it coming.
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Like every other skill in the game, cyclone completes any initiated cast, locking you out of further non-flask actions until completion. The only exception to this is the "walk only" command which can be superseded at will.
Everybody agrees that it's annoying, although there's a variety of viewpoints on what fix, if any, is required. Cyclone is, however, one of the most affected abilities because it's possible to issue an exceedingly long cyclone command that locks you out of character control for 2 or more seconds.
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Only way to exit Cyclone earlier is to use Quicksilver flasks. Sooner you get to location you clicked on sooner you can do something else :D
Another way is to hold cyclone key and mouse always close to your character in direction you want to go in. Costs way more mana so not for everyone.
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On October 03 2017 22:56 Glacierz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2017 18:23 -Archangel- wrote:On October 01 2017 05:22 sob3k wrote:On September 28 2017 06:07 Glacierz wrote:
How much HP/damage reduction do you need to survive a Shaper slam? I have over 7k and still get one shot. I think it does around 12k without mitigation I don't like these kind of fights that only depend on your reflexes. Not for people like me :D I was playing a cyclone discharge build when I first fought him. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but cyclone does not stop immediately after you release the key. This is super annoying because it makes dodging huge hits very difficult even when you see it coming.
You can use bladeflurry if you have trouble with cyclone on tough bosses.
I haven't done shaper yet but for most other stuff cyclone seems fine if you just click on your feet.
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I tried using Lacerate on Shaper instead of Cyclone but honestly Cyclone just felt better anyway. There are awkward things about using Cyclone on that fight, but Shaper slam isn't one of them. It's telegraphed for long enough that even if you're locked in Cyclone you have enough time to Leap Slam away (I actually Leap Slammed too early several times using Lacerate because I wasn't used to being able to act so fast).
On October 04 2017 01:16 -Archangel- wrote:
Another way is to hold cyclone key and mouse always close to your character in direction you want to go in. Costs way more mana so not for everyone.
The cost of doing small Cyclones is negligible if you have any source of mana leech (just one node is enough) OR use Hezmana's OR use Bloodmagic with Starforge. This is the way to go.
The only downside is that you lose the ability to abuse Ruthless easily (2x small Cyclones, followed by a long one that uses up the Ruthless proc) but most people don't keep track of that anyway.
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On October 04 2017 01:16 -Archangel- wrote:
Only way to exit Cyclone earlier is to use Quicksilver flasks. Sooner you get to location you clicked on sooner you can do something else :D
Another way is to hold cyclone key and mouse always close to your character in direction you want to go in. Costs way more mana so not for everyone.
My discharge build has 75 max mana pool with all the aura reserves, so probably not gonna work out too well. I will try this technique on my Slayer that runs blood magic.
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Mine has like 80, just don't cyclone if you don't hit and its fine. I killed about everything except shaper/uatziri.
And try bladeflurry it actually feels very nice against bosses, just for quick mapping cyclone wins by a mile (until shieldcharge is enough, then it doesn't matter  )
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Yeah Cyclone in PoE was a bit awkward for me at first, even though it became my favorite build so far. After expecting it to work like Whirlwind in Diablo 3, which is very responsive and can be changed direction / ended smoothly, I had to train myself to hold my mouse really close to my character in PoE to get the feeling I wanted. Seems like a QoL thing they could improve, but then again there's a lot of aspects of PoE that seem to intentionally avoid better QoL lol
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+ Show Spoiler +https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/randombum/characters
I just started laying this league. I just followed a guide that said this would be a good newcomer/SSF build so I tried it, but I think I'm reaching the limit.Build uses minions to tank, firestorm for damage. Think this build go any further? Combined currency wise I might have somewhere in the 300ish chaos. Not sure if I could make a new char with only that amount of currency that could go further.
Right now I'm capable of doing higher tier maps around 12-14, but every once and a while I'll die, or some bosses kill me multiple times making it really difficult to keep any xp towards 90. It also feels pretty slow because things don't die that fast, and my zombies die pretty often in the harder maps.
I haven't done uber lab because I still haven't completed the trials. Not sure if that's common. I've been carried though atziri, but haven't actually attempted her myself. No where near seeing shaper.
Gear upgrades at this point seem really expensive for like +15hp so I don't know if it will be worth it to try to make bring this char all the way to the end game bosses. Not sure its possible even with great gear in every slot.
Time to roll a new char?
Savable?
Am I doing something wrong?
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Your profile is private so we can't see it. Red maps are hard for lots of builds if we factor in the bosses. With 300c I'm sure you could do a build that does well till T15 (I doubt Guardian and Shaper). There are plenty on the forums. I'd recommend builds that HC players use if you don't wanna die. Like SRS, Animate Weapon from say UberElite, Sunder/Cleave builds from for example Alkaizer. There are lots more though, but the ones I mentioned should do well against anything but Guardians and Shaper.
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Profile should be public now. For a long time I was hoping to complete shaper, but is it that not likely? I don't think I'll be able to get enough hp/damage on this build to do the harder stuff. Is there something obvious I'm missing to get a big power spike, or should I re-roll?
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Your build is exceedingly new player friendly but not very powerful in the way that a build should be to complete content like shaper.
One interesting thing that you could try would be to use the Scourge unique claw instead of your wand. While your wand has a lot of upside, your tree has so much strange tension that I feel like the Scourge is the only way to kinda "bring it all together".
Also I think you'd find yourself measurably less likely to die with some nice mana rolls on jewellery. Your belt could easily have a lot more resistance on it (don't worry about armour, you'll never achieve a relevant amount) and that could open space on your jewellery for dual mana/mana regen rolls (look for 40+ of each). Cast speed is a neat bonus, but just not crucial on jewellery.
An avenue for a lot of optimization is jewels as well, although those aren't the cheapest. You only have 1 and it's terrible. You can get jewels with up to 7% life, as well as all sorts of great mods like %mana, fire damage, spell damage, area damage, minion damage, damage, resists, cast speed, etc. For 2 points they are generally much much better than nodes like fire walker, although they can be expensive.
I'm also fairly convinced that your build would be better as necromancer, but it's a bit late now.
most people leave their cast when damage taken gem at level 1 (so that it procs more often) and their immortal call at level 3 (so that it can still be cast by the cwdt gem). In addition, I think your orb of storms would really benefit by being in a 4link with increased critical strikes added since I doubt you have elemental overload up all the time right now. I'm not certain what the best way to move sockets would be, but I was guessing that convocation didn't need to be in your CwDT link.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try to change my jewellery for more mana and see if I can find a good jewel that I can use.I should hopefully feel smoother and die a bit less. I guess I'll give up on shaper and just use this char to farm a bit more currency so I can afford to build a stronger build.
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On October 04 2017 12:18 randombum wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try to change my jewellery for more mana and see if I can find a good jewel that I can use.I should hopefully feel smoother and die a bit less. I guess I'll give up on shaper and just use this char to farm a bit more currency so I can afford to build a stronger build.
With 300c you can work towards this build:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1819239
The only key item is the 6 socket axe, does not need to be linked. It can be bought for 30c
It clears Shaper and can scale pretty well with currency later.
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Miners also tend to be dirt cheap, at least up to red maps but i don't see a reason why this should change against Guardians/Shaper.
GC-Miner is very fotm.
Firenovamine was one of the better league starters.
Arc-Mines also work very nice.
The only expensive thing on these builds is basically the head-enchant (but nothing like the really expensive enchants for more common builds), you can run them with rares only and because you don't need many Uniques, this means you can resist cap whiteout needing expensive rares because you have so many slots to get whatever you need.
As an example my first Char (Arc-Miner) did nearly selffound with no jewels up to T12 (iirc) and I just stopped because i wanted to try something diffrent, he never wasn't resist capped after Act 4 and could do iirc every boss i encountered whiteout any issues... I revisited him a bit later to plunder his rares i found none and realised that my second char allready was worth tons more than him just because of the "required/recommended" uniques and still struggled in some T7-10 maps (mainly some bosses).
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Miners definitely do a ton of dmg, but the lack of survivability mobility became very noticeable in higher content. It's a bit inferior compared to other budget builds imo.
Here's my impression of all the builds I fully tested for this league:
- BLS Berzerker: Highest single target DPS (you can achieve 10m dps with optimal gear), melts Shaper within seconds, sucks at mapping/labs due to lack of movement and having to take VP. I switch to him when I reach boss rooms on T16+ maps if mods are bad. -Currently using
- Discharge Berzerker: This build simply does not die in maps. It has 80+ resists when running dual purity auras. Faster than BLS but not the best clear speed. The end game items for this build includes +1% max res Kaom's, +1 curse voll's devotion, +2 weapon range Mjolnir, and +elemental weakness Repentance gloves, all are ridiculously expensive. -Retired and sold
- Starforge Cyclone Slayer: Best balance overall, because the slayer ascendancy, you don't need to take VP. This enables you to do labs with very fast speed if you use the Retch belt. Does not have the highest single target DPS, but the 20% cull on bosses makes up for it. -Currently using
- GC Miner Saboteur: Ridiculous AOE dps, also melts bosses fast if you can manage to stay alive. Feels very squishy at higher level content, mobility is also a problem. -Retired and sold
- Elemental Wander (I chose Scion for the extra passives and reflect immune): I feel like this build is ridiculously expensive to gear. I dumped many exalts into it and it still sucks in terms of DPS. Maybe if you have hundreds of exalts for a GG wand then it gets better? Not really sure. Out of all the builds, this one in theory has the fastest clear speed for maps, but bosses take forever to kill with barrage without GG gear. -Still working on it, but kinda semi-retired
- SRS Necromancer: Originally I created this to farm labs, I sold everything and just use the Slayer build with the retch belt now. Constantly spamming SRS doesn't really fit my playstyle. -Retired and sold
In terms of cost of the build, I'd rank these from cheapest to most expensive in this order:
- GC Miner
- SRS Necromancer (the blood magic version requires a 6L +3 socketed gems bonus staff, which can be costly)
- BLS Berzerker (scales well with 6L Belly, Xoph's Blood, and +3 molten projectile helm enchant, but do not need them to clear Shaper)
- Starforge Cyclone Slayer (build is expensive due to... well... 6L Starforge, 15% cyclone speed enchant on Devoto and Daresso's Salute also very expensive, the Retch is a luxury item)
- Discharge Mjolner (BiS items are all corrupted tier 1 uniques, near impossible to find on poe.trade, could cost 100+ exalts to complete, I played a suboptimal version of it and felt pretty invincible already)
- Wander (high edps GG wands cost 1 mirror, +barrage projectile enchant extremely expensive on tempest binding helm)
Edit: added links to builds. My versions are not really identical to any of those guides, but captures pretty much the spirit of it.
I should note that all 6 builds are capable of all end game content with enough farm for gear, but some are definitely easier than others in terms of mechanics.
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On October 05 2017 00:49 Glacierz wrote:Starforge Cyclone Slayer: Best balance overall, because the slayer ascendancy, you don't need to take VP. This enables you to do labs with very fast speed if you use the Retch belt. Does not have the highest single target DPS, but the 20% cull on bosses makes up for it.
How does Starforge/phys compare to Ngamahu cyclone? Probably better into end-game/bosses but more expensive to gear?
Really useful post by the way, liked your summaries. Good stuff to keep in mind when I think about next league down the road.
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I did not personally try out Ngamahu, but the common consensus is that Ngamahu is more starter friendly because the item is more common and does not require a 6L (although the end game build contains a xoph's blood amulet, which costs 5ex, dying sun isn't cheap either). I transitioned into Slayer cyclone after farming a bunch of Shaper using the BLS build, so I already had a Starforge that I 6-Linked myself with 800 fuses.
My biggest decision was between Disfavour (with bleed nodes) vs Starforge (weapon itself has shock). Disfavour uses axe nodes and bleed nodes vs Starforge's sword nodes. Overall I believe axe nodes + bleed are better in terms of the skill tree bonus, but Starforge has higher weapon dps, and was just easier for me given I already have the weapon farmed up.
If you do Shaper with the phys cyclone build, it is better to go with bleed because you can't really shock Shaper. So for pure end game boss fights Disfavour is the better choice (you do lose close to 100 base HP bonus Starforge provides though).
Last time I checked, both weapons are priced very similarly, so it's more of a personal preference. Keep in mind that Disfavour has +2 weapon range, which is very significant for any cyclone builds.
The build uses Resolute Technique, so the best weapon is a corrupt Starforge with +2 weapon range given the accuracy implicit on it is useless. This corruption is extremely rare, there is none for sale on poe.trade.
PS: phys cyclone builds require jewels with 3-4 of the following properties, which are a lot more expensive compared to Ngamahu:
Maximum %Life (this is kinda required for higher level content)
% Damage/Physical Damage
% Area Damage
% Damage/Physical Dmg with Swords/Axes/Two handed melee weapons
% Attack speed, with Swords/Axes/Two handed melee weapons
% Elemental resists as needed
I deviated from the guide and took the resists nodes + jewel socket at the scion starting point, so I can free up the resists on rings/jewels for more damage.
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I read that next patch is going to add Spectre persistence and I think to myself time for that summoner build I always wanted to play but didnt feel like because of needing to find and summon Spectre each time again.
Then I join the game for first time in 2 week to clear some Beacheads with a friend and I am cruising along but thinking about this next build once patch hits.
So I am thinking if I should get a Baron for it, thinking how much it might cost now and that I need to check prices and probably buy it now before the patch because there might be a lot of people looking for it afterwards.
20 minutes later a Baron drops :D
That cannot be a coincidence?!
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On October 05 2017 04:59 -Archangel- wrote:
I read that next patch is going to add Spectre persistence and I think to myself time for that summoner build I always wanted to play but didnt feel like because of needing to find and summon Spectre each time again.
Then I join the game for first time in 2 week to clear some Beacheads with a friend and I am cruising along but thinking about this next build once patch hits.
So I am thinking if I should get a Baron for it, thinking how much it might cost now and that I need to check prices and probably buy it now before the patch because there might be a lot of people looking for it afterwards.
20 minutes later a Baron drops :D
That cannot be a coincidence?!
If you really are betting on this, I'd buy a bunch more baron helmets while prices are still stable.
I realized you make way more currency by flipping high end stuff on poe.trade than actually playing the game, kinda depressing.
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EPT
