Look at your league table. One result doesn't change the fact that there are only two teams in Spain.
Real Madrid and Barça are way ahead of everyone else but what you fail to see is that the rest are ahead too, just not that much.
It doesn't matter how good the other teams are if the competition is a farce. There are only two teams in Spain just like there are only two teams in Scotland - two different leagues in terms of skill, but both as uninteresting and dull as each other.
Im not talking about how interesting the league is . you said spain only have two teams and thats a lie just because 2 of the teams are way better than the rest doesn't mean that in a european scale or world scale the other teams doesn't mather. La liga isn't everything there is .
You're taking what I said out of context. I am speaking strictly about the Spanish league when I say that there are only two teams in Spain. I'm not naive enough to think that top European leagues don't have teams capable of taking points off teams in other top European leagues.
well u are taking what i said out of context because in my first coment i posted the results for the europa league and then said that we didn't have only two teams( so i wasn't talking about la liga), so i dont know what having a boring league has anything to do.this conversation is pointless so dont expect me to continue replying to your nonsense..
On March 09 2012 10:07 LogaiN wrote: Thing is, Barcelona and Madrid are on a different level compared to other teams today. It would look the same if they played in the PL/Bundesliga/Serie-A. Trust me.
in the EPL they would be near the top but its tough going to places like Stoke, Fulham et al on a wet shitty afternoon and trying to get a result, its not like playing in spain and winning 5-0 every week
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA, HE ACTUALLY SAID IT SERIOUSLY
On March 09 2012 10:07 LogaiN wrote: Thing is, Barcelona and Madrid are on a different level compared to other teams today. It would look the same if they played in the PL/Bundesliga/Serie-A. Trust me.
in the EPL they would be near the top but its tough going to places like Stoke, Fulham et al on a wet shitty afternoon and trying to get a result, its not like playing in spain and winning 5-0 every week
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA, HE ACTUALLY SAID IT SERIOUSLY
andy gray, take a bow son, take a bow
He's not saying they would lose to Stoke and Fulham, he is saying that it is more physically demanding to play in the EPL than it is to play in La Liga and that this could, over the course of a season, have an affect on the ability of players like Messi to put in ridiculous performances week in, week out...
I don't think that is a daft thing to say. Saying that Barcelona would then lose to those teams would be a bit daft, they'd out-class them 99 times out of 100. But it is definitely a more physical game in the EPL - look at the trouble David de Gea has had adapting, or just look at Arsenal in recent years...
you don't think it's daft to suggest that real madrid and barcelona would merely be "near the top of the EPL" on account of having to go away to fulham and stoke in bad conditions?
1st off, theres no way to even debate how Barca and Real will do in the Premiership or how Chelsea/ManUtd/Arsenal/Liverpool/Spurs/ManCity would do in LaLiga because it will never happen.
The only way we have an idea of how well and good teams from each league are is by there domestic league tables and how well they do in the pinnacle of the European competitions. And might i add there is more clubs from England seeded in Pot 1 for the last 5 years than any other country ^_^ for starters.
This season 2011 - 2012
Champions league round of 32: NOTE This is in seed order where seeds are determined by a points system that UEFA hand out. Pot 1 Seeds - Barcelona Man Utd Chelsea Bayern Munchen Arsenal Real Madrid Porto and Inter Milan Pot 2 Seeds - AC Milan Lyon Shakhtar Donetsk Valencia Benfica Villarreal CSKA Moscow Marseille Pot 3 Seeds - Zenit ST Petersburg Ajax Bayer Leverkusen Olympiakos Man City Lile Basel Bate Borisov Pot 4 Seeds - Borussia Dortmund Napoli Dinamo Zagreb APOEL Trabzonspor Genk Viktoria Plzeň Oțelul Galați
So lets break it into Countries Pot 1 - 3 English 2 Spanish 1 German 1 Portugese 1 Italian Pot 2 - 2 French 2 Spanish 1 Ukrainian 1 Portugese 1 Russian 1 Italian Pot 3 - 1 Russian 1 English 1 Dutch 1 Germany 1 Greek 1 French 1 Swiss 1 Belarus Pot 4 - 1German 1 Italian 1 Czech 1 Cyrpus 1 Turkish 1 Belgian 1 Croatian 1 Romanian
Totals - 4 English 4 Spanish 3 German 3 Italian 3 French 2 Russian 2 Portugese 1 Ukrainian 1 Dutch 1 Greek 1 Swiss 1 Belarus 1 Croatian 1 Czech 1 Cyrpus 1 Turkish 1 Belgian 1 Romanian
Making the order according to UEFA rankings = England 435.628 (4 teams) Spain 405.746 (4 teams) Italian 215.33 (3 teams) French 202.205 (3 teams) German 196.661 (3 teams)
NOTE This is as of 2011 - 2012 Season not previous ones, obviously if different teams where in the champions league with higher points its different. BUT as of 2011 - 2012 UEFA ranking points system has English leaegue with more points and more teams seeded 1-8 ^_^
On March 09 2012 10:07 LogaiN wrote: Thing is, Barcelona and Madrid are on a different level compared to other teams today. It would look the same if they played in the PL/Bundesliga/Serie-A. Trust me.
in the EPL they would be near the top but its tough going to places like Stoke, Fulham et al on a wet shitty afternoon and trying to get a result, its not like playing in spain and winning 5-0 every week
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA, HE ACTUALLY SAID IT SERIOUSLY
andy gray, take a bow son, take a bow
I've been temp banned for less btw, you should learn to maturely respond to people who have different opinions that you. And you misunderstood my point, obviously Real and Barca would be near the top but they wouldn't dominate in the way they do in spain because in the EPL the league is objectively harder, when was the last time barca lost 2-3 at home to a team who are bottom? it happens in the prem because the league is more demanding and has a better overall standard this is proven by the statistics outlined by Pandemona above.
Look at your league table. One result doesn't change the fact that there are only two teams in Spain.
Real Madrid and Barça are way ahead of everyone else but what you fail to see is that the rest are ahead too, just not that much.
It doesn't matter how good the other teams are if the competition is a farce. There are only two teams in Spain just like there are only two teams in Scotland - two different leagues in terms of skill, but both as uninteresting and dull as each other.
Im not talking about how interesting the league is . you said spain only have two teams and thats a lie just because 2 of the teams are way better than the rest doesn't mean that in a european scale or world scale the other teams doesn't mather. La liga isn't everything there is .
You're taking what I said out of context. I am speaking strictly about the Spanish league when I say that there are only two teams in Spain. I'm not naive enough to think that top European leagues don't have teams capable of taking points off teams in other top European leagues.
So your saying that watching Spanish football is bad because it has the 2 best teams in the world.. oookk. How good the football is clearly irrelevant. It just has to be competitive right ? Ill tell you what, even though this is irrelevant to the discussion Ill play along.
Considering more different clubs in Spain have won la liga in the last 12 years than in England I could even argue that point.
Like I said I can bring plenty of arguements that England is usually a 2 horse race aswell, and some times not even that If anyone actually believed that the last 3-4 seasons Arsenal or Liverpool could actually win a title were being naive and banking on the names. I never did. Chelsea were up there for a bit and Arsenal challenged a couple of times otherwise its been alll Man Unied for more than a decade, and comfortably most of the time. O right Valencia and Depo did that to and round abou the same time. Lets just consider recentlly alI I see is Man United have wonnnn oh yeah 4 of the last 5 years with just 1 team, thats right 1 team challenging when it has mattered. Others like i said the names and hype just flatter to deceive and fall out of the picture and you can usually tell who it is. This idea that omg so many teams in England can win is an illusion, and it ends pretty quickly every season when the contendors emerge. Even this year is a 2 horse race. Sooooo interesting. That my friend is a farce. Atleast Spain brings you under no silly illusions of great competition. (just playing devils advocate here because your just wrong in the way you are thinking about it.)
Does England have more teams where the title chasers can slip up? Sure but thats just because the contendors arent as good as Real or Barca simple. I think Bilbao skinning Man United should prove as much.
Also, just to add on to this argument, I think that this year has been an especially weak one for the EPL teams...a lot are in transition. This includes Man Utd (wtf midfield), Chelsea (still need replacements for drog/lampard/terry), Arsenal (lost fabregas/ nasri, loads of injuries), Liverpool (no Torres goal machine Andy Carroll misfiring). Also there have just been some really bad results in Europe. I think people are getting this low opinion of the EPL maybe because this year they have not performed as well abroad. Many of the domestic games however have been of exceptionally high entertainment quality!
On March 09 2012 10:07 LogaiN wrote: Thing is, Barcelona and Madrid are on a different level compared to other teams today. It would look the same if they played in the PL/Bundesliga/Serie-A. Trust me.
in the EPL they would be near the top but its tough going to places like Stoke, Fulham et al on a wet shitty afternoon and trying to get a result, its not like playing in spain and winning 5-0 every week
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA, HE ACTUALLY SAID IT SERIOUSLY
andy gray, take a bow son, take a bow
He's not saying they would lose to Stoke and Fulham, he is saying that it is more physically demanding to play in the EPL than it is to play in La Liga and that this could, over the course of a season, have an affect on the ability of players like Messi to put in ridiculous performances week in, week out...
... At least until they adapt to it. I suppose.
Again this is ignorance of ever having watched a game in the Spain that isnt a classico. Some of the conditions they have to lay in involve balls bouncing around on Sand, or snow covered pitches where the ball hardly moves. This is essentially kryptonite to teams like Barca and how they play. And its not like Spaniards dont know how to hit people. They get kicked around plenty. And its not like they have come out unscathed. Teams in Spain atleast know how to beat or compete against Barca. This + a dip in form from Barca (messi in particular) in addition to teams actually underestimate how strong Madrid is. Hence the fact that the league is effectively over. Last season people in Spain fancied themselves against Madrid. This season it was not a good idea, Madrid are too good now. Teams will start planning against them the same way they do against Barca and the potential to drop points will be there to. Thats how you handle teams better than you.
England is just better at ending careers and providing long term season ending stuff, o and harrassing goalkepeers. So yes if they were to break his legs or something in England he wouldnt be able to do that. But that just suggests its a dirty league doesnt it ?
It is physically demanding to play in Englad if you ever give the ball away. The likes of Stoke and Fulham would be chasing shadows all day or knocking people out. Either way they would not pose a significant physical drain unless they actually hurt Real or Barca.
Also, just to add on to this argument, I think that this year has been an especially weak one for the EPL teams...a lot are in transition. This includes Man Utd (wtf midfield), Chelsea (still need replacements for drog/lampard/terry), Arsenal (lost fabregas/ nasri, loads of injuries), Liverpool (no Torres goal machine Andy Carroll misfiring). Also there have just been some really bad results in Europe. I think people are getting this low opinion of the EPL maybe because this year they have not performed as well abroad. Many of the domestic games however have been of exceptionally high entertainment quality!
That just adds to the argument that la liga is stronger at the moment if all the top teams in England have problems.
I know the discussion will always exist... but I think its so pointless with the talk about which national league is the best... its like talking about whether Terran/Zerg/Protoss is OP T_T...
On March 10 2012 03:19 zanga wrote: I know the discussion will always exist... but I think its so pointless with the talk about which national league is the best... its like talking about whether Terran/Zerg/Protoss is OP T_T...
Lets be clear here. England is absolutely the best league in the world at the moment everything considered. But spouting garbage like there are only two teams in Spain (from any consideration) is a bit insulting even if it meant in a purely la liga context in terms of title contendors. There are really only 2 teams in England by that benchmark. Just 1 changes every year oooohh so exciting who will challenge Man United, this season out of those 3 pretenders..
On March 09 2012 10:07 LogaiN wrote: Thing is, Barcelona and Madrid are on a different level compared to other teams today. It would look the same if they played in the PL/Bundesliga/Serie-A. Trust me.
in the EPL they would be near the top but its tough going to places like Stoke, Fulham et al on a wet shitty afternoon and trying to get a result, its not like playing in spain and winning 5-0 every week
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA, HE ACTUALLY SAID IT SERIOUSLY
andy gray, take a bow son, take a bow
He's not saying they would lose to Stoke and Fulham, he is saying that it is more physically demanding to play in the EPL than it is to play in La Liga and that this could, over the course of a season, have an affect on the ability of players like Messi to put in ridiculous performances week in, week out...
... At least until they adapt to it. I suppose.
George best was good but.... could he perform in a hot sunny day at Seville?
On a serious note, again why don't people understand that Spain also has difficult stadiums, with absoulte terrible weather conditions, from snow to extremely hot just like any country? Its not like the weather is monotonous..
EPL was clearly the best league between like, 2007-2009. but since then, spanish teams (not just real madrid and barcelona) have improved at a much higher pace than the english teams- some english teams (arsenal, chelsea and liverpool) have even become worse. and at the moment, la liga is clearly the superior league. I mean, if you remove top 2 teams from both leagues, it's prolly kind of even, but real madrid and barcelona are playing at a far, far higher level than any english team at the moment. and if you compare the performance of 3-6 in epl with 3-6 in spain, then spain also comes out ahead..
this stuff is cyclical.. there's no need to be offended or angry because the league you prefer is no longer best. expect barca and real to be the teams to beat the next "some" seasons. then it might become city or united or milan or bayern münchen.
and I don't mean best as in "most entertaining" here, but best as in "has the highest overall skill level". I don't really care how La Liga plays out to be honest, while EPL excites me. but I just don't see how you can argue that EPL is superior in terms of quality.
also with the whole world cup debate. the world cup is the most important tournament in the world, the one most people care about and the one most players would prefer winning. someone like totti being an exception makes sense - italy has a greater chance of winning the WC than roma has of winning CL, and he's a one-club-player. but while the WC is what most people find the most exciting, the quality of play is less good than the quality of play in the CL.
i met steven gerrard in town earlier today. i asked him to sign my shirt, and he said yeah, sure, do you have a pen? thinking, i said no, but just hold on a second. i then fall to the floor and roll over theatrically. he asks me how that's going to get me a pen?
i then tell him "because that's how you usually do it"
EPT
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