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qrs
United States3637 Posts
Votes Nf3: 34 (Cloud9157, Ikari, Raysalis, Soluhwin, Bengui, XXGeneration, Varpulis, f4: 21 (Blazinghand, Malinor, qrs, PtM, Bourne, jdseemoreglass, Rybka, gogogadgetflow, Jumbled, imBLIND, mastergriggy, enigmaticcam, durza, noclaninator, tyr, shackes, aphorism, indigoawareness, mcc, Babyfactory, KingStuart) Nc3: 1 (Epithet) d4: 2 (BaronFel, ParanoiaHoT) Qh5: 1 (timh) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uSRsU.png) | ||
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Ng5
702 Posts
Thanks for all the hardwork, qrs.  It seems unlikely that Nf3 would be beaten, f4 had a higher demand than I thought it would and for a minute I thought it hight had had a slight chance. It could have been interesting, there's some new lines the KG lately. Shows what can happen if you don't look for a while. But hey, I always thought that the first real debate will come around move 3 (maybe 4). 11 more hours to go, guys. | ||
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zasta
United Kingdom99 Posts
Can we make separate threads with a poll in for the next move so that we're not hanging on someone to collect info and make a graph? | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
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Ng5
702 Posts
I messaged everyone who hasn't voted yet and I will do so 36-48 hours into the next vote as well. If someone doesn't vote in any of the first three moves and doesn't reply to the reminders either I will just remove them. But so far it looks pretty active. 107 total subscribers, which is quite nice - even though we only have 61 votes for this round yet, let's wait for the coming weekend. Edit: 62. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On August 10 2011 22:03 ParanoiaHoT wrote: + Show Spoiler + Yeah, it seems you're calling the queen's gambit "stupid" or "not interesting"? His response with Nc6 is fine, yes he gets a slight development advantage temporarily but you suggest the auto response is in turn to run away? Lol, you push forward to d5 and threaten the entire center that he can't immediately counter. You're also forgetting the fact that he gave up the entire e file in the gambit, as if that's zero advantage.. You shouldn't be so opinionated, you seem to think every opening is "bad". + Show Spoiler + 1) Put your arguments into spoilers, please. I have done this for you in this quote. 2) I didn't call the queen's gambit stupid. I would like to point out that: 2.a) I made no statements regarding the queens gambit, since, having played 1.e4, we can't use that opening 3.b) I also don't use the word "stupid" in my entire post, yet you're somehow quoting it. Don't put words in my mouth. 3.c) therefore, not having spoken about the Queen's Gambit AND not having called anything stupid, I can only assume you haven't actually read my arguments. 3) the issue is that both 3 Nf3 and 3 f4 as followups to 2 d4 are poorly-ordered, since 3 Nf3 guards d4 to begin with, and the king's gambit is already risky enough without a subpar opening in front. Other openings, following 2. d4 all lose tempo and position, or material. | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Provides solid, stable openings and midgames with a lot of depth to them. | ||
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Slakkoo
Sweden1119 Posts
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WarChimp
Australia943 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Mainly because that is the opening that the community has opted for. If we had instead of done the Queens Gambit I would have gone for a different vote, but because its the Kings Gambit, or at least the e4 opening, that is the move that I am opting for | ||
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Miles_Edgeworth
United States141 Posts
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enigmaticcam
United States280 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + This is certainly what white wants to do (as he does so in any opening where black doesn't ascertain control of d4 on the second move, such as the French Defense and Caro-Kann). But I feel it would be too presumptuous to do it without the support of the rest of the pieces. That's what the Ruy Lopez is all about, fighting for control of d4 while developing at the same time. | ||
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Lewan72
United States381 Posts
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
I'll throw my vote in for f4, based on the arguments for the moves being debated. | ||
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kHaza
Great Britain55 Posts
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annul
United States2841 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On August 11 2011 00:19 Blazinghand wrote: + Show Spoiler [response to part of Blazinghand'…] ++ Show Spoiler + the issue is that both 3 Nf3 and 3 f4 as followups to 2 d4 are poorly-ordered, since 3 Nf3 guards d4 to begin with, and the king's gambit is already risky enough without a subpar opening in front. Other openings, following 2. d4 all lose tempo and position, or material. While I'm not a huge fan of d4, your dismissal of some of the possible follow-ups does not seem well-grounded, as I said on the bottom of last page. To be more specific this time:
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Diderick
Netherlands298 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On August 11 2011 02:23 qrs wrote: + Show Spoiler [response to part of Blazinghand'…] + While I'm not a huge fan of d4, your dismissal of some of the possible follow-ups does not seem well-grounded, as I said on the bottom of last page. To be more specific this time:
+ Show Spoiler + That's fair. Let me rephrase, then: + Show Spoiler [3. nf3] + 3. Nf3 is called the Centre game, Kieseritsky variation. Black's best response is: 3... Nc6 This crushes us. What are our responses? All terrible. The pawn he has on d4 either wins because we take it, putting us way behind in development, or because we don't take it, giving him a lot of room. Unless you can think of something better, here are what I think are our only options... 4. Nxd4 Bc5 now we're in danger towne. We need to guard, flee or exchange our knight. If we play 5. Nxc6, though, the response 5....Qf6 is very, very dangerous for us. If we flee the knight to f5, f3,or b5 we lose a tempo so black gains ANOTHER developed piece on top of it. If we guard the knight with a bishop or pawn we pin more of our own pieces and Qf6 remains an everpresent danger. This is a bad position to get into, and not worth earning back the pawn. So, we must not retake the pawn. Instead, we play 4. Bc4 and this looks pretty normal. Given a standard black response of 4 ... Nf6 we begin to see white's trouble. We've lost a lot of space to black's pawn on the d file, and by not taking it, we're incredibly compressed. It's almost impossible to defend our e-pawn, and we will eventually lose the center, which is very unfortunate given that this is the Centre game. 4. Bc3 suffers similar problems, but it delays them with the bishop guard on the knight. Qf6 and his bishop still threaten the kingside, so we can't take his pawn, and as long as that pawn is out we will have no room to develop. Because our knight developed late, we couldn't control the dark-colored squares, and that 5th rank pawn is the death of us, one way or the other. I'm a little busy but I'll address 3. f4 later tonight. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On August 11 2011 01:32 Lewan72 wrote: Knight to f3. This leads into the Ruy Lopez opening, which is a very good solid opening that has a 40% winrate. i assume with draws factored in that isnt actually as bad as it sounds [60%loss rate lol], so 2. Nf3 | ||
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