Industry trade website Develop-Online has revealed in an interview with Valve’s Robin Walker that Team Fortress 2 is now permanently free to play, and will solely be supported by in-game item purchases.
TF2′s switch to F2P was rumored and expected, but perhaps not this soon. Walker says that Valve had been exploring the idea since September 2010. “We’ve been toying with the idea of making Team Fortress free-to-play ever since the Mann-conomy update,” Walker said. “The data we got back from that update leads us to believe that TF2 would be more successful as a completely free product.” Read the rest of the interview with Walker at Develop-Online.
Prior to today, Team Fortress 2 was in the middle of a “free week.” The game’s Über Update should deploy later this evening.
Basically they announced TF2 is now free to play/download.
So what do you guys think? Microtransactions made this game free to play forever, I'm downloading TF2 right now. It's pretty damn fun, hopefully other companies will get the idea to make a quality product FIRST, before adding microtransactions to grab money. (Blizzard failed on the first part for SC2/BNET0.2)
Will companies follow suit? All the companies are doing microtransactions except they make shit games/products. TF2 was pretty well designed, before microtransactions came along meaning they actually put thought in the game and put in a way LATER to continuously fund this game development.
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
it doesnt work like that, so it does make sense.
but good move for them, got it when it came out and played the shit out of it, a really fun game
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
You get them too, but it takes more time. You can BUY the items but they're not tradeable unlike the items you find.
They aren't really more POWERFUL, each item has it's benefits and drawbacks, as you can see in each items stats.
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
The design philosophy behind the newer weapons are that they would be side-grades rather than upgrades. There's a downside to the different items you can use so using the originals doesn't just give you a straight up advantage.
Already had it for several months but i'm looking forward to pwning the noobs that are getting it with this announcement. Is their any better feeling in fps's than one-shotting a heavy with a headshot from the other side of the map?......nope.
Hope to see you guys on the tf2 battlefield. I think Valve is going to be making lots of F2P games in the future after they proved the success of the item market and micro-transactions.
Well, you can unlock the class update unlocks through achievements, and you can craft a lot of the new ones. You don't need any unlock at all, most are worse than their original. I play with the default load outs (+the original medic unlcoks) 98% of the time.
If you really want an unlock, you can trade it as well for some other weapons. Someone is bound to have it :D.
I'd rather like a system where you can equip everything from the start, but w/e.
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
The weapons are mostly sidegrades, so non-default weapons are not super op. Drops happen often and you can always spend 10$ to upgrade to premium. They can't let every free account get hat drops or we would get computer farms with TF2 running on AFK servers.
TF2 is the better version of FPS games. The shitty CoD and Battlefield games only try to simulate reality and encourage 2 shot deaths. TF2, contrarily, depends on strategy and teamwork and has a diverse set of original weapons.
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
You can get every item in the game for free from trading and drops.
On June 24 2011 10:59 Grettin wrote: I seriously doubt Dota2 will be f2p. It's the worst idea..
or well, if i think about i dunno.
I think if a AAA game like dota 2 decides to use a f2p model instead of the classical one-time 50$ model, it potentially yields much more money in the long run.
i would be dancing if i havent bought this game in the past... but now i feel betrayed and thinking did i just lost 10$?... It would be nice if they gv me a discount when dota2 came out though.
I'm not really sure why so many people are upset about paying for the game and now having it free. If you bought it a week ago and had played for a few hours sure, but I'm sure a ton of people upset with it are people who have hundreds of hours played.
Consider the $10+/- cost everyone paid went towards getting some 1-3+ year early access and hours of fun...
edit: Guys the movie I paid for in the theaters years ago is now playing on TV for free! I demand a refund!
On June 24 2011 11:24 dbddbddb wrote: this isnt the first time tf2 has been free... there is nothing to complain about for tf2 players
they always make tf2 free just before any major updates so players who dont have the game can check it out and buy it if they like it. its basically like a free trial version.
i bought this game in 2007 and still play it to this day
Yea but they always returned to being not free afterwards this means that its free to play forever.
It's not letting me download because the servers too busy but is there a large TL presence on this game? I've always been to broke to buy it so I'm glad I get to join in on the fun now. I'll be using the same name as on here. Hope more TL members play this than Sudden Attack since I got good at SA recently but there's basically no TeamLiquid members even on that particular game which makes me QQ.
Anyone who complains about the new weapons were probably too bad to adjust to the new weapons. I still pubstomp with vanilla loadouts (I even run vanilla spy, it's more effective than DR spy at higher skill levels) and top tier players prefer vanilla weapons.
On June 24 2011 11:42 Aurra wrote: If only TF2 had TFC gameplay.
Yeah, things I miss are the grenades and the "class specific grenades".
Unlike BF2 where nade spamming was just insane, TFC had no issues with nade spamming due to nades being less effective than regular weapons (it takes a lot of nades to take out a player).
Now normally nades aren't a big deal but some had fun effects (conc jumping for example for scout and medic).
I dislike how some of the achievements are earned (gameplay gets diminished when a "couple" of the players are trying to earn an achievement from "Taunt Attack Kills" for example but fortunately "achievement servers" solved the issue).
On June 24 2011 10:54 Marou wrote: I am so sad they didnt made a mac client for this game, i loved team fortress classic back in the days...conc jump all the way
It's pretty damn fun, hopefully other companies will get the idea to make a quality product FIRST, before adding microtransactions to grab money. (Blizzard failed on the first part for SC2/BNET0.2)
Sorry, I don't understand? They haven't added in microtransactions yet, so they didn't fail anything in that respect.
On June 24 2011 12:04 LoLAdriankat wrote: Anyone who complains about the new weapons were probably too bad to adjust to the new weapons. I still pubstomp with vanilla loadouts (I even run vanilla spy, it's more effective than DR spy at higher skill levels) and top tier players prefer vanilla weapons.
Well, some stuff like Equalizer is a straight upgrade. Other stuff like the wrangler is just ridiculously overpowered.
Vanilla is just the most balanced and rewarding and is a way more clean experience, that's why its played in the competitive scene.
On June 24 2011 12:04 LoLAdriankat wrote: Anyone who complains about the new weapons were probably too bad to adjust to the new weapons. I still pubstomp with vanilla loadouts (I even run vanilla spy, it's more effective than DR spy at higher skill levels) and top tier players prefer vanilla weapons.
Well, some stuff like Equalizer is a straight upgrade. Other stuff like the wrangler is just ridiculously overpowered.
Vanilla is just the most balanced and rewarding and is a way more clean experience, that's why its played in the competitive scene.
Wrangler engineers are a spy's wet dream. If the engineer's incompetent at tracking, scouts can take them out pretty easily too.
I still run normal shovel because I'm a safe player and I stay above 100 hp anyway.
On June 24 2011 12:04 LoLAdriankat wrote: Anyone who complains about the new weapons were probably too bad to adjust to the new weapons. I still pubstomp with vanilla loadouts (I even run vanilla spy, it's more effective than DR spy at higher skill levels) and top tier players prefer vanilla weapons.
Well, some stuff like Equalizer is a straight upgrade. Other stuff like the wrangler is just ridiculously overpowered.
Vanilla is just the most balanced and rewarding and is a way more clean experience, that's why its played in the competitive scene.
Wrangler engineers are a spy's wet dream. If the engineer's incompetent at tracking, scouts can take them out pretty easily too.
I still run normal shovel because I'm a safe player and I stay above 100 hp anyway.
true, also the sentry cant be repair while shooting so stuff like demo or soilder just take sentires out in 2 shot.
On June 24 2011 12:04 LoLAdriankat wrote: Anyone who complains about the new weapons were probably too bad to adjust to the new weapons. I still pubstomp with vanilla loadouts (I even run vanilla spy, it's more effective than DR spy at higher skill levels) and top tier players prefer vanilla weapons.
Well, some stuff like Equalizer is a straight upgrade. Other stuff like the wrangler is just ridiculously overpowered.
Vanilla is just the most balanced and rewarding and is a way more clean experience, that's why its played in the competitive scene.
Wrangler engineers are a spy's wet dream. If the engineer's incompetent at tracking, scouts can take them out pretty easily too.
I still run normal shovel because I'm a safe player and I stay above 100 hp anyway.
The wrangler allows a sentry to become an almost impossible to kill defense juggernaut. If the engineer is any competent, he will not get backstabbed or killed by a scout. If the team only plays a little bit for the sentry, it requires a ridiculous amount of effort to get it down. That's why the wrangler is one of the things that absolutely has to be banned in 6vs6. Also, the wrangler just replaces the pistol, which an Engineer doesn't really use much anyway.
When our team played in ETF2L's highlander cup, the wrangled sentry is pretty much what the entire defense is based around. Makes Badwater first point for example stupidly hard to attack.
Well, I run shovel too, equalizer is still a straight upgrade. Plus a soldier running equalizer to mid allows you to have both sollies faster, at more HP and/or more reliably to the middle fight than when both do the jumps.
It's pretty damn fun, hopefully other companies will get the idea to make a quality product FIRST, before adding microtransactions to grab money. (Blizzard failed on the first part for SC2/BNET0.2)
Sorry, I don't understand? They haven't added in microtransactions yet, so they didn't fail anything in that respect.
On June 24 2011 10:54 Marou wrote: I am so sad they didnt made a mac client for this game, i loved team fortress classic back in the days...conc jump all the way
On June 24 2011 13:59 Brambled wrote: I am so bad at this game! Any pointers for those starting out?
Don't play 32 player maps. They are spamfests. Always have an escape plan and a plan ahead your next move. Get good on one map, be aware of flank paths and health kits. Don't run blindly run into areas the enemy clearly controls.
On June 24 2011 13:59 Brambled wrote: I am so bad at this game! Any pointers for those starting out?
Don't play 32 player maps. They are spamfests. Always have an escape plan and a plan ahead your next move. Get good on one map, be aware of flank paths and health kits. Don't run blindly run into areas the enemy clearly controls.
also try maps such as badland or pl_badwater. Best class to start with are scouts, solider heavy and sniper.
On June 24 2011 13:59 Brambled wrote: I am so bad at this game! Any pointers for those starting out?
I would start with Medic for a few sessions. You'll learn the classes, what they can do, and how to deal with them. Medic doesn't require FPS aiming or prediction skills to be successful (though it helps), and your teammates will guide you through the map and (hopefully) put you where you need to be. And you'll still be a huge help to your team even if you play terribly. If you want to try some combat classes, Heavy and Soldier are both pretty friendly to start with. Just start playing; the rest of the tips I'd give would probably be more specific problems.
Best class to start with are scouts...
Noooooo, do NOT start with Scout. Scout requires good map awareness, good aim, good sense of composition and abilities of the enemy, etc. Fun as hell, but really not a class to start with.
Medic is probably the best class to learn how to spycheck, push, retreat, and all those other important gameplay elements...
...Simply because you'll die a lot if you fail at any one of these things. And your team won't yell at you if you're terrible because no one wants even the bad medics to switch to another class.
Just don't start as Sniper unless you're ABSOLUTELY SURE you know what the hell you're doing. Too many clueless snipers...
Valve is one of my favorite companies, tf2 is one of the best fps games out there and the way they went about making the game profitable 4 years after is brilliant. I hope that more companies use this form of microtransactions ( making things available to purchase without changing the game for those who don't pay)
I am very excited that it is free so other people can enjoy this jem of a game in the heap of crap that game developers are pumping out now a days. Kudos to valve!!!!
On June 24 2011 14:17 acker wrote: Medic is probably the best class to learn how to spycheck, push, retreat, and all those other important gameplay elements...
...Simply because you'll die a lot if you fail at any one of these things. And your team won't yell at you if you're terrible because no one wants even the bad medics to switch to another class.
Just don't start as Sniper unless you're ABSOLUTELY SURE you know what the hell you're doing. Too many clueless snipers...
soldier and demo spam if you are hungry for kills medic if you are sucking bad/feeling useless
thats about it
oh and make sure to spam 'E' at all times, even if there are no medics
gl hf new players!
That's surprisingly accurate.
I feel silly having bought the game during some sale last year for like $12. I should've seen this coming. Still, it's making me want to go and play more TF2 which is a problem with all the games I'm already splitting my time with. D:
There's probably a few more, but these are important.
Learn how to rocket and sticky jump. And turn in the air (strafe one way while in the air after rocket jumping, and turn in the same direction using the mouse).
On June 24 2011 14:22 Grettin wrote:
OR PLAY PYRO AND YOU DON'T NEED TO SPYCHECK LOLOL
yeah.. ^_^
And die to every other class out there...Tomislav/GRU Heavy is so much better at everything except uber blocking. Twice the DPS, twice the health, with exactly the same speed...it's the new Natasha, I swear.
On June 24 2011 10:12 Grettin wrote: purchased this like a 6 months after the release. It's still fun, even though you rage most of the time in Public anyway.
Good move by valve. Can't wait to hit the public with my friends to own every new player (and older ones) up.
You can "find" all the items in the game... weapons that is... just takes a unit of "time" or you trade for them...
hats are a different story and they aren't necessarily free...
only one or two items in the game are actually better than what they actually replaced... the rest are just used differently... ( the other bonesaw with the aoe heal and not the regular one considering they both have the same dps )
On June 24 2011 10:12 Grettin wrote: purchased this like a 6 months after the release. It's still fun, even though you rage most of the time in Public anyway.
Good move by valve. Can't wait to hit the public with my friends to own every new player (and older ones) up.
You can "find" all the items in the game... weapons that is... just takes a unit of "time" or you trade for them...
hats are a different story and they aren't necessarily free...
only one or two items in the game are actually better than what they actually replaced... the rest are just used differently... ( the other bonesaw with the aoe heal and not the regular one considering they both have the same dps )
I have been playing the game for about 2100 hours (used to be into competitive play for more than two years): quit because I was bored of the game mechanics and couldnt stand practicing every night. It's still sort of fun, especially if you play with friends. There is no excuse for not checking it out now
I've been playing for a couple weeks but I just realized how bad at this game I am. My favourite class is Spy, and I've watched a lot of youtube vids on it but I always seem to get like 1 kill and then get detected and die. Still, it's ridiculously fun fooling the enemy and stabbing them in the back. The only reason I play other classes is because I get frustrated with getting detected and dying all the time lol.
I've got close to 2.5K hours on this game, and 1.9k as just a scout. I'm a long time competitive player in the series, and this game especially. I'm so glad Valve took this route instead of letting this game just die, when it has tons of life left. Not just for casual play, but for competitive play as well. They see the LoL model, and try and emulate that here, and I'm glad because League has been a great success. This will add another 2 to 3 years to Tf2
On June 24 2011 10:54 Marou wrote: I am so sad they didnt made a mac client for this game, i loved team fortress classic back in the days...conc jump all the way
I hope you know its available for mac via steam....
On June 24 2011 15:21 TokyoDown wrote: I've got close to 2.5K hours on this game, and 1.9k as just a scout. I'm a long time competitive player in the series, and this game especially. I'm so glad Valve took this route instead of letting this game just die, when it has tons of life left. Not just for casual play, but for competitive play as well. They see the LoL model, and try and emulate that here, and I'm glad because League has been a great success. This will add another 2 to 3 years to Tf2
Top or ~mid level comp player? What nick if i may ask?
I felt this shit coming from a mile away when the Mann Co. update hit. It still caught me off guard when I first heard about it, but it was definitely on my mind since that update. I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing, I think it'll bring in a lot of fucking douchebags but it's also really good for popularity and since it's been out for this long, why not?
Oh wow, I haven't played TF2 since the engi update in july lol. I bought this game on steam for like 5$ so I don't really care it going free. It was well worth the money when I was actively playing it. Anyone know any good TF2 servers, I may start playing a bit again. The sniper headshot "hacker" is coming back! I also like how they FINALLY added trading items. All my multi copies of items can be of use!
On June 24 2011 15:18 snotboogie wrote: I've been playing for a couple weeks but I just realized how bad at this game I am. My favourite class is Spy, and I've watched a lot of youtube vids on it but I always seem to get like 1 kill and then get detected and die. Still, it's ridiculously fun fooling the enemy and stabbing them in the back. The only reason I play other classes is because I get frustrated with getting detected and dying all the time lol.
every new player's favourite class is spy until they realize they can play soldier or demo and get infinite kills by just standing back and blasting away
On June 24 2011 15:21 TokyoDown wrote: I've got close to 2.5K hours on this game, and 1.9k as just a scout. I'm a long time competitive player in the series, and this game especially. I'm so glad Valve took this route instead of letting this game just die, when it has tons of life left. Not just for casual play, but for competitive play as well. They see the LoL model, and try and emulate that here, and I'm glad because League has been a great success. This will add another 2 to 3 years to Tf2
holy crap you literally spent 3 months of non-stop gaming as a scout in tf2
If you are considering jumping into this, now is the time to do it!!! The TF2 community is awesome and welcoming, it's the 3rd best shooter on PC and tons of fun. You will not regret it Orange_X3 googogogogog.
On June 24 2011 15:21 TokyoDown wrote: I've got close to 2.5K hours on this game, and 1.9k as just a scout. I'm a long time competitive player in the series, and this game especially. I'm so glad Valve took this route instead of letting this game just die, when it has tons of life left. Not just for casual play, but for competitive play as well. They see the LoL model, and try and emulate that here, and I'm glad because League has been a great success. This will add another 2 to 3 years to Tf2
holy crap you literally spent 3 months of non-stop gaming as a scout in tf2
As an ex-competitive player (in one of the best clans in New Zealand) with over 1000 hours plugged into the game, I have a tear in my eye to see it go this way. Not because I don't like the new changes, but because I haven't been playing with all my friends through them. I have so many amazing memories attached to this game, so many points captured, flags returned and sentries sapped. But most of my friends have moved on, and so have I.
Team Fortress 2 is a beautiful game, and it represents everything that game developers should strive for. Thank you Valve. If you're reading this and haven't already, go out there and play this game!
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
TF2 isn't really like that. Most weapons are either side grades or downgrades. On topic though. Kinda both like and dislike this move. Perhaps I underestimated how much revenue they make from the Man Co. Store. But good for the community that its free though. But yeah I suggest anyone and everyone who doesn't have this game to download it and try it out. I'm still playing after years.
On June 24 2011 17:18 Dr. ROCKZO wrote: As an ex-competitive player (in one of the best clans in New Zealand) with over 1000 hours plugged into the game, I have a tear in my eye to see it go this way. Not because I don't like the new changes, but because I haven't been playing with all my friends through them. I have so many amazing memories attached to this game, so many points captured, flags returned and sentries sapped. But most of my friends have moved on, and so have I.
Team Fortress 2 is a beautiful game, and it represents everything that game developers should strive for. Thank you Valve. If you're reading this and haven't already, go out there and play this game!
love tf2, played it till like july during the engi update last year. Quit because of sc2 ^^ yea i was one of those hero pubbers who gets 100 kills in a game but sux at comp play
My serious class is the heavy and before that the scout, and i could multiclass decently
I'm surprised I'm saying this but I really dig the "Start Playing" option. I usually play on the Reddit servers or my clan's server because they allow a max of 24 players and have normal respawn rates, the way the game was supposed to be played, but those servers are often full, down, or empty. Now I have an easy alternative because the "Start Playing" option puts you on vanilla servers. :D
I'm a little concerned this will result in more hackers. Valve said they were gonna keep on top of it, but I'm not exactly sure how. In my couple thousand hours playing this game I've only come across a view blatent hackers, so it would be a shame for it to go the way of CounterStrike.
For the new players: How much you get out of TF2 is very largely dependent on finding a good server and friends/community to play with. When I first got TF2 I quit after a few days. I didn't pick it up for another couple of months, and only when I found a good community did I get really into it. Now more so even than before there seem to be so many godawful servers out there. I'm talking about 32player, instant respawn cp_dustbowl with all kinds of powerups you have to pay for and populated mostly by bots. Stick to 24 player, nocrits and standard respawn times. You'll have more fun.
On June 24 2011 18:27 LoLAdriankat wrote: I'm surprised I'm saying this but I really dig the "Start Playing" option. I usually play on the Reddit servers or my clan's server because they allow a max of 24 players and have normal respawn rates, the way the game was supposed to be played, but those servers are often full, down, or empty. Now I have an easy alternative because the "Start Playing" option puts you on vanilla servers. :D
what are you talking about? start playing just opens the server browser
On June 24 2011 18:27 LoLAdriankat wrote: I'm surprised I'm saying this but I really dig the "Start Playing" option. I usually play on the Reddit servers or my clan's server because they allow a max of 24 players and have normal respawn rates, the way the game was supposed to be played, but those servers are often full, down, or empty. Now I have an easy alternative because the "Start Playing" option puts you on vanilla servers. :D
what are you talking about? start playing just opens the server browser
They changed that in the patch today.
Anyone have any spy tips? I'm so tired of being bad lol.
On June 24 2011 18:27 LoLAdriankat wrote: I'm surprised I'm saying this but I really dig the "Start Playing" option. I usually play on the Reddit servers or my clan's server because they allow a max of 24 players and have normal respawn rates, the way the game was supposed to be played, but those servers are often full, down, or empty. Now I have an easy alternative because the "Start Playing" option puts you on vanilla servers. :D
what are you talking about? start playing just opens the server browser
They changed that in the patch today.
Anyone have any spy tips? I'm so tired of being bad lol.
what does the start playing button do now? it just puts you in a random server?
spies are pretty much just meant to kill engineer buildings. thats really about it to be honest
Start Playing lets you pick a game mode and it puts you on a vanilla server hosted by Valve. So if you're having trouble finding an option out of the sea of 32 player servers with fake player counts, then this is an option.
On June 24 2011 18:27 LoLAdriankat wrote: I'm surprised I'm saying this but I really dig the "Start Playing" option. I usually play on the Reddit servers or my clan's server because they allow a max of 24 players and have normal respawn rates, the way the game was supposed to be played, but those servers are often full, down, or empty. Now I have an easy alternative because the "Start Playing" option puts you on vanilla servers. :D
what are you talking about? start playing just opens the server browser
They changed that in the patch today.
Anyone have any spy tips? I'm so tired of being bad lol.
Spy tips? Hmmm...
Don't be too hasty. That is all.
Seriously, Spies are good for two things: backstabbing Heavies and Snipers and sapping stuff
On June 24 2011 18:27 LoLAdriankat wrote: I'm surprised I'm saying this but I really dig the "Start Playing" option. I usually play on the Reddit servers or my clan's server because they allow a max of 24 players and have normal respawn rates, the way the game was supposed to be played, but those servers are often full, down, or empty. Now I have an easy alternative because the "Start Playing" option puts you on vanilla servers. :D
what are you talking about? start playing just opens the server browser
They changed that in the patch today.
Anyone have any spy tips? I'm so tired of being bad lol.
I tried to like tf2 over a year or so (from 2007 to 2008) , hoped patches could make the game better but the game was just pure shit that got polished till it shined
Maybe now that even more people will play, TF2 can do better as an Esport. I mean, all the TF2 "progamers" I've talked to remind me of foreigner BW players they get played so poorly.
Isn't this such awesome news? Well of course it is, but since I cannot log into Steam most of the time, I am screwed for now. And I still cannot install my boxed version of Duke Nukem Forever
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
No. Play the game then try and make silly comments. It's free now, btw
First, new weapons are not "upgrades". They are alternatives. Some weapon stats are increased, others are lowered. Weapons with different capabilities often have (sometimes severe drawbacks.
Second, people have been able to buy weapons since last October, and it's become obvious that there's no such buy-weapons-for-imbalance problems.
Guys, the weapons are side-grades. Most of them are actually worse then the original one (but usually more fun). I personally still play with all the originals.
Also, the game drops a lot of itens, so everything is fine.
On June 24 2011 23:35 debasers wrote: Guys, the weapons are side-grades. Most of them are actually worse then the original one (but usually more fun). I personally still play with all the originals.
Also, the game drops a lot of itens, so everything is fine.
Yeah the weapons are much more of alternates than upgrades. Gain a new ability or feature but lose something else useful. The first pyro flamethrow upgrade crushes people if you catch them from behind but it also costs double or something for blowback which is really, really big since that is used for reflecting things, juggling people and the like.
pretty much all of the weapons operate using the same thing
On June 24 2011 23:35 debasers wrote: Guys, the weapons are side-grades. Most of them are actually worse then the original one (but usually more fun). I personally still play with all the originals.
Also, the game drops a lot of itens, so everything is fine.
Yeah the weapons are much more of alternates than upgrades. Gain a new ability or feature but lose something else useful. The first pyro flamethrow upgrade crushes people if you catch them from behind but it also costs double or something for blowback which is really, really big since that is used for reflecting things, juggling people and the like.
pretty much all of the weapons operate using the same thing
Actually the BackBurner can only crit from behind and doesn't get the compressed air burst.
Tf2 was never ruined with the introduction of hats. What "ruined" TF2 was when community made weapons were introduced. Most of those are pretty ridiculous and don't really have any business in the game. Now I'm not saying that the community shouldn't have gotten involved, they have made some killer maps, and their participation is what has allowed TF2 to survive for almost 5 years.
The F2P model isn't bad considering it going to bring new life to the game. Just look at all the people on TL that said they wouldn't have even shelled out 5 bucks before, but now they'll download it. Valve are mad geniuses when it comes to marketing. As for those of us the paid for it earlier I think if we even got 100hrs out of (not hard) it was completely worth your money. If anyone should be outraged its the people that paid and then proceeded to never play it. But again it's their fault for paying for something they didn't play.
TF2 is hands down the most fun FPS that is still played (TFC was pretty damn awesome too). However, it does depend on having good/fun people to play with, since it's heavily team based.
Perma F2P is really sad, especially consdering that I just convinced some of my friends to go out and buy the game. They have to make a distinction between the groups, otherwise it just screws over all the dedicated players.
On June 25 2011 00:41 moltenlead wrote: Perma F2P is really sad, especially consdering that I just convinced some of my friends to go out and buy the game. They have to make a distinction between the groups, otherwise it just screws over all the dedicated players.
Why would it be bad?? It injects more life into the franchise if anything, and pubs were already filled with... pubs?
Most of the server were whether nearly empty or 24/7 full of 23 bots. That kinda pissed me off. I hope with the new patch the servers get filled Someone knows why they deleted stuff about the new patch in Tf2 wiki?
On June 25 2011 00:41 moltenlead wrote: Perma F2P is really sad, especially consdering that I just convinced some of my friends to go out and buy the game. They have to make a distinction between the groups, otherwise it just screws over all the dedicated players.
Why would it be bad?? It injects more life into the franchise if anything, and pubs were already filled with... pubs?
I'm just saying that this is a kick in the face to the people who went out and bought the game last week (I made 3 people do it). At least give people something to show that they payed for the game by giving more weapons or limiting weapons access for free.
On June 25 2011 00:41 moltenlead wrote: Perma F2P is really sad, especially consdering that I just convinced some of my friends to go out and buy the game. They have to make a distinction between the groups, otherwise it just screws over all the dedicated players.
Why would it be bad?? It injects more life into the franchise if anything, and pubs were already filled with... pubs?
I'm just saying that this is a kick in the face to the people who went out and bought the game last week (I made 3 people do it). At least give people something to show that they payed for the game by giving more weapons or limiting weapons access for free.
they have something to show for: a kickass ww1 style hat :D and every class can wear it
Hah, a good move by Valve, probably. The game ought to become very big now, considering how popular the game is already.
Personally, I lost interest pretty quickly, though I did play the crap out of it the period I was into it. I liked vanilla TF2 way better than what it is nowadays, though.
I used to play on a friend's account and enjoyed it, but not enough to spend money on it. I'll now be able to get my shooter fix when it comes about once every couple weeks!
the TF2 wiki is down (essentially DDoS'd by everyone wanting to look stuff up) does anyone know a good place to look-up all the changes since a few years ago?
Before people start complaining to much about those who did buy the game against those who are just now getting it for free, should really look at the official FAQ:
Now, is it worth the $20, $10, or even $5 you spent on tf2? Well thats whats up for debate. Personally for me it is, simply because of how much time Ive spent playing tf2 compared to other FPS (Only other I can really think of that I enjoyed was halo 2)
bought orange box like 3-4 weeks ago mainly cause of tf2 (tho wanted to play hl2 episode 1&2 also). free to play is great since it draws more people in and overall is just amazing that valve makes one of the most fun multiplayer shooters nowadays f2p.
On June 25 2011 03:06 Senx wrote: really slow DL 6 hours left with 120 kb /sek ..
Change servers to some other countries like Denmark/Germany/netherlands. Increases your dl speed sometimes. I usually use "eastern bloc" countries when i download from steam. works much better, i dunno why tho.
On June 25 2011 03:03 Energizer wrote: Before people start complaining to much about those who did buy the game against those who are just now getting it for free, should really look at the official FAQ:
Now, is it worth the $20, $10, or even $5 you spent on tf2? Well thats whats up for debate. Personally for me it is, simply because of how much time Ive spent playing tf2 compared to other FPS (Only other I can really think of that I enjoyed was halo 2)
Read the FAQ.
My god, rewards of coaching newbies, it's genius marketing.
On June 25 2011 03:06 Senx wrote: really slow DL 6 hours left with 120 kb /sek ..
Change servers to some other countries like Denmark/Germany/netherlands. Increases your dl speed sometimes. I usually use "eastern bloc" countries when i download from steam. works much better, i dunno why tho.
Thanks, I changed country to Finland and it bumped up my DL speed to 180-500 kb. Its a bit unstable though :C
Oh I should mention, I tried this again the other week. It literally feels like a great game that is now sitting on a street corner whoring itself out for scraps of cash. So fucking annoying just wanting to play one of those good old-fashioned team-based, class-based FPS games I grew up with, only to get harassed by multiple strangers for trade requests over some stupid fucking item I just picked up.
So, as for my earlier comment
As far as I'm concerned I got the game for a steal via the orange box.
I got my money's worth back then when it was still a game worth playing. Now, it's just another game sitting on the shelf collecting dust. F2P or not, it was ruined shortly after they put in all those ridiculous items.
On June 25 2011 05:41 Bibdy wrote: Oh I should mention, I tried this again the other week. It literally feels like a great game that is now sitting on a street corner whoring itself out for scraps of cash. So fucking annoying just wanting to play one of those good old-fashioned team-based, class-based FPS games I grew up with, only to get harassed by multiple strangers for trade requests over some stupid fucking item I just picked up.
As far as I'm concerned I got the game for a steal via the orange box.
I got my money's worth back then when it was still a game worth playing. Now, it's just another game sitting on the shelf collecting dust. F2P or not, it was ruined shortly after they put in all those ridiculous items.
Boohoo.
It's still a great game. Why not just ignore all the item stuff? I could care less about hats or whatever else they have in there now when I'm playing. I still have just as much fun now as I did then. No one makes you care about the items. It's not intrusive at all besides the occasional drop notification and I think there might be a way to turn that off.
Got this with Orange Box (PC) years ago but never got into playing it, figured I'd try it today and it seems pretty fun in small dozes. Probably my only online game I can play just for fun with zero chance of raging. :D
Spys seem pretty ridiculous though, even I could jump in as a completely new player and get constant kill streaks as one. Died just as easily to them when not playing as one. Can understand them being a lot better balanced in "Professional games" though due to communication etc.
Once you learn how to spy check spies become much less of an issue, with the massive influx of new players people do not know the signs of a spy. If you bump into a friendly player you cannot walk though they are a spy. Also having a pyro just flamethrower to spycheck works wonders. I remember a few months ago when i last played it was very difficult to get more then 1 or 2 kills as a spy because people would immediately shoot at anyone and expect you to shoot back to confirm you are not a spy. If you did not respond they would just spray at you until you died or they were sure you were not a spy.
After a while, you start noticing spies because they don't move the same way normal people move. It's kind of hard to explain...like, normal people care less than disguised spies where other people are.
Thankfully, I completely forgot about getting this game with work starting to pile up for the summer season, so I ended up saving whatever the amount for the game used to be ($10 or something like that, but every penny saved is good for my bookkeeping).
Anyway, I was wondering, from the viewpoint of a new TF2 player (on the PC, at least, I did play it on the 360 and had a blast with it there), what are some suggestions for servers that I could get into that are more noob friendly or are just fun to play.
The reason I ask is that I got CS 1.6 not too long ago and while, I admit, I am not very good at all, I could not find many servers to play on because the other players were taking it too seriously or were just soooooo good that it took the fun out of the experience.
Some starting points would be much appreciated. Is there teamliquid server as well?
Played this game to death when I first got it. Haven't touched it since, mainly due to lost interest. May have to hit it up again with friends if I can convince them to get it. I am very surprised that it's FTP but glad.
On June 25 2011 09:41 acker wrote: After a while, you start noticing spies because they don't move the same way normal people move. It's kind of hard to explain...like, normal people care less than disguised spies where other people are.
Spies strafe a lot for some reason. If you see a guy strafing a lot while he runs he's almost always a spy. I never figured out why, but it's definitely true
On June 25 2011 09:41 acker wrote: After a while, you start noticing spies because they don't move the same way normal people move. It's kind of hard to explain...like, normal people care less than disguised spies where other people are.
And good spies learned to take advantage of that and 'act'. When I am really bored I pretend to be a really obvious spy and try to fool my teammates into chasing me around :D
Just played a few games. Makes me slightly sad that the game is now overrun by 10 year olds who don't know how to play =/. Also anyone else having trouble finding servers with tolerable ping?
Is anyone else having any problems with the server browser? I can't find any servers at all, and I've been playing tf2 for years. The problem is only in tf2 for some reason.
Welcome to Fuzzys Quick(Long) Guide to Classes: TF2 is a fantastic game. Like all good things, some strange people will not like it, but so be it. It's free, give it a try.
You're quick, and you'll die quicker. Double jump and try to attack people where they aren't looking. If you get good, you get scary, but it will take a lot of practice to get there. ALl else fails, giggle like a maniac while hitting people with a baseball bat.
You have no weaknesses, and a lot of strengths. Again, you won't start off great but you can do damage if you've ever played any FPS with a rocket launcher. Aim at feet, frag, repeat. You're slow, and want to stay far away from the fat men and the masked chubby men.
If you like to burn things and find your opponents screaming "FIRE" this one is for you. Generally most efficient with new players since it's quite possible to charge heroicly (Stupidily) into the front lines and set plenty of people on fire. Also try hiding around corners, wait for someone to walk past you, and burn them. Give right click a try!
The most powerful class... once you're good at it. This is the class that can do things no other class can do, and do most things other classes can do just as well... but only if you're good. When starting, lob grenades into your opponents, or stickies. He has a unique aiming curve that will take you time to adjust, but he blows stuff up goooood. Then better.Like scout, it will take time, but will make your opponents cry.
A large Russian Man who may be compensating for something. Close Range Master, mid range tolerable, he can also scare the crap out of inexperienced players. He's actually most effective dropping in on people, not being a walking tank. Practice jumping just before revving your gun, those 5 feet or that corner really makes a difference. Once you know how to handle him, he's a Teddy Bear. Those who don't find him a devastating opponent.
Build your dispensers just around corners for your team to re-stock. Build your gun just in range of where the enemies can't escape. Build your teleport to bring your team closer. Right click to re-place any placed equipment to confuse enemies. Let your gun do the work while you do the dancing. However, this requires teamwork. An engineer on it's own is easily defeated, but an Engineer supporting a team supporting an Engineer makes things look stacked.
Heal people who are hurt. To help your team: Find a person with high score, attach heal beam, right click when Uber is at 100%. Once you get good, you'll Uber at better times. Once you get better, you'll keep your team nicely healed as you make your opponents wonder why your patients just won't die.
He's Australian? Pick off people from Afar. Aim for anyone threatening you, then Medics, then Engineers. Headshots do more damage, as do zoomed in charges. No matter what someone says, even if they die to a bodyshot, you did your job.
Sneak behind enemy lines. Sap sentries just before your team bursts around the corner. Backstab medics who are building those pesky ubercharges. Rage at Pyros who always set you on fire. (If you main Spy, you will LOATHE pyros)
Also, remember, this game has a HUGE "Just relax and have fun" component. Professional tournaments only use 4 classes (Sometimes 5) because.. well, they don't like playing the full game. Every class can be rewarding. Sometimes, the most random stuff can happen. Don't be afraid of trying out other maps/game modes. Generally, people who say 32 man servers are full of noobs say that because... they played on 32 man servers full of noobs. Teamwork goes a long way in this game, and there's a lot of armchair generals who will get upset because "You don't do what I say!". Don't let em bother you, welcome to a fantastic FPS experience.
Also, if you get any hats, I'll take em off your hands.
On June 25 2011 12:48 gurrpp wrote: Is anyone else having any problems with the server browser? I can't find any servers at all, and I've been playing tf2 for years. The problem is only in tf2 for some reason.
Having the same issue.... let me know if you figure it out...
I just got TF 2 today and it seems like there are no servers available...is it because I am a newbie? Also...TF 2 is the hardest FPS I have ever played. FML
On June 25 2011 14:27 Shiragaku wrote: I just got TF 2 today and it seems like there are no servers available...is it because I am a newbie? Also...TF 2 is the hardest FPS I have ever played. FML
Wow what FPS games have you been playing? Not to say TF2 isn't skillful or anything.. but you should try original team fortress or quake 1 in general!
IMO Quake 3 [arena](or quake live) would be one of the hardest FPSes... that game is pretty damn crazy. That said, Quake 3 is a bit too tedious and/or simplestic for my taste... mostly about super fast reactions and good accuracy, not that there isn't other things like prediction involved, but still the game is quite linear.
TF2 is nice because while it might not be the most skill-demanding, it uses a bit more brain, a bit less twitch. I like team games like Nox, Team Fortress, and Tribes (even though I never played it, lol). Even unreal tournament series (favorite being the original) had some team play even though it was really basic (hardly at all a step up from quake). Oddly enough (or not) I didn't like Counter strike. Probably because it focuses so much on the tedium like Quake does.
If you think Q3A/Live is hard, try Quake 1. A lot of Quake veterans say Quake gets dumbed down with every release and it's true to an extent, though I prefer to use the term 'streamlined'.
But yeah, I like how TF2 requires just enough skill for players to have to work for their kill, yet not so much that it's tedious like Brood War. Compare TF2 to Call of Duty where in CoD, 95% of the kills aren't deserved.
On June 25 2011 12:15 Existential wrote: Just played a few games. Makes me slightly sad that the game is now overrun by 10 year olds who don't know how to play =/. Also anyone else having trouble finding servers with tolerable ping?
I heard Australia has very few servers with active communities (as in everyone has a mic and knows each other like good friends). One of the few good Australian community servers I know of is a furry server, if you're okay with that.
On June 25 2011 12:15 Existential wrote: Just played a few games. Makes me slightly sad that the game is now overrun by 10 year olds who don't know how to play =/. Also anyone else having trouble finding servers with tolerable ping?
I heard Australia has very few servers with active communities (as in everyone has a mic and knows each other like good friends). One of the few good Australian community servers I know of is a furry server, if you're okay with that.
Well pre-Uber Update although there wasn't a exceptionally great number of servers I still could find quite a number where I pinged quite low. But post update just seems like all the servers such as 3FL aren't there anymore and the servers that are, are just too hard to play on.
On June 25 2011 14:27 Shiragaku wrote: I just got TF 2 today and it seems like there are no servers available...is it because I am a newbie? Also...TF 2 is the hardest FPS I have ever played. FML
Wow what FPS games have you been playing? Not to say TF2 isn't skillful or anything.. but you should try original team fortress or quake 1 in general!
I have played Battlefield, Counter-Strike, and Quake...but I find TF 2 to be hard because the enemies are just too durable and you are not as bouncy as you are in Quake.
On June 25 2011 14:27 Shiragaku wrote: I just got TF 2 today and it seems like there are no servers available...is it because I am a newbie? Also...TF 2 is the hardest FPS I have ever played. FML
Wow what FPS games have you been playing? Not to say TF2 isn't skillful or anything.. but you should try original team fortress or quake 1 in general!
I have played Battlefield, Counter-Strike, and Quake...but I find TF 2 to be hard because the enemies are just too durable and you are not as bouncy as you are in Quake.
Too durable? You can kill most enemies without reloading(assuming you hit) when you're playing as soldier/demoman. But if you don't have a medic healing you, and the enemy does...shoot the medic first.
Or you could play as engineer and put up a level 3 sentry. Even kills heavies with medic support(no uber).
On June 25 2011 09:41 acker wrote: After a while, you start noticing spies because they don't move the same way normal people move. It's kind of hard to explain...like, normal people care less than disguised spies where other people are.
And good spies learned to take advantage of that and 'act'. When I am really bored I pretend to be a really obvious spy and try to fool my teammates into chasing me around :D
And people then figure out what good spies think other people are looking for in spies, and very good spies look for what people think good spies think goods spies think what other people are looking for, and so forth and so forth...just kidding :\ Kinda.
Fortunately, good spies are rare so 90% of the time step one applies
bought the game when it released (because i played TFC also), played it competitively, in my opinion public sucks, but the game is awesome. best clanwar and team game ever, without the new weapons!
On June 25 2011 15:00 Xapti wrote: That said, Quake 3 is a bit too tedious and/or simplestic for my taste... mostly about super fast reactions and good accuracy, not that there isn't other things like prediction involved, but still the game is quite linear.
Thats cos cpma mod made rail and lg too generous, every half decent player was hitting 40% lg and higher. Of course, other people think that the netcode is excellent and the closest to what it should feel but im not convinced. Still... Q3's history has lots of champions who werent the fastest or most accurate players of their time.
Anyways I think this was the shot in the arm the tf2 scene needed. I noticed that tf2 left the competitive circuit quite a while ago and I hope clan activity picks up again. The steam servers are being hammered with slow downloads so thats a good sign that people are playing!
On June 25 2011 15:00 Xapti wrote: IMO Quake 3 [arena](or quake live) would be one of the hardest FPSes... that game is pretty damn crazy. That said, Quake 3 is a bit too tedious and/or simplestic for my taste... mostly about super fast reactions and good accuracy, not that there isn't other things like prediction involved, but still the game is quite linear.
You make that sound like the Brood War prejudice, that the player who clicks faster will win. There is plenty of strategy/tactics in map control in Quake 3, but it's coupled with a huge mechanical demand.
"...Valve took a leap of faith. Like in indiana jones 3, () they stuck their foot out over a ravine, hoping to get to the holy grail across the way, and it is our responsibility, as the users, the gamers, and the lovers of TF2 to decide whether or not the bridge will be there for them to walk across safely to the other side." -quote myself.
what do people think about the influx of people who may not be good at TF2, or may b horrible n00bs, but were only enticed by the "free to play" offer? how should we solve this? Premium-only servers? n00b training? interested to hear back.
On June 25 2011 17:12 sceroh wrote: does anyone has the problem that you are being disconnected every time you joins a game ?
i cant even load my tf2 lol
I've been crashing about 2/3s into loading screens. While I did just get the game free I have played just fine before on a free to play weekend. Anyone know a fix (mac fyi)?
I am having trouble setting up a private server with a friend for practice. Every time I make the server, it starts in LAN mode. Whenever I use the command sv_lan 0 (which disables LAN mode) and change the map (which makes the change take place) the game crashes.
It used to work a while ago, but not now. Any ideas?
On June 25 2011 23:00 calvincible wrote: has anyone played TFC (the original)? TF2 is like what cs source is to 1.6. made it terrible.
The relationship between 1.6 and Source isn't even comparable to TFC and TF2. 1.6 was the original slow paced, semi-realistic FPS game; and Source was effectively just the same game recreated on the Source engine with some very small changes (for better or for worse is your opinion really).
However TFC was an extremely fast paced CTF game, very similar to Quake 4v4 CTF (which to be fair, Team Fortress originally started as a quake mod). TF2 on the other hand is a moderately slow paced objective-based game, all of the classes have EXTREMELY specific roles compared to TFC. It tends to revolve around Capture Points and Payload (cart pushing) maps on public, and competitively is played almost exclusively on symmetrical linear 5CP maps.
On June 25 2011 13:38 Fuzzmosis wrote: Welcome to Fuzzys Quick(Long) Guide to Classes: TF2 is a fantastic game. Like all good things, some strange people will not like it, but so be it. It's free, give it a try.
...
A lot of what you've said here is pretty charged and misguided. Especially about how to play the classes.
Professional tournaments only use 4 classes (Sometimes 5) because.. well, they don't like playing the full game.
It's not as simple as that, I'd imagine TeamLiquid of all places would be incredibly understanding of the fact that in a competitive setting, you use the best/most effective strategies (i.e. very rarely using carriers in SC2), and unfortunately those strategies are best executed using only 4 of the classes for the most part (competitively its played 6v6).
On June 25 2011 23:37 Vearo wrote: I am having trouble setting up a private server with a friend for practice. Every time I make the server, it starts in LAN mode. Whenever I use the command sv_lan 0 (which disables LAN mode) and change the map (which makes the change take place) the game crashes.
It used to work a while ago, but not now. Any ideas?
Unfortunately, even if you get it to run, you'll have a lot of ping issues and will still need to sort out port forwarding and what not. The best thing to do is just jump on a medium-ish full server with your friend, and sit on Skype/mumble/etc together.
However if you still want to do it, try opening console while at the main menu (the ` key still opens it at the main menu), type sv_lan 0 there, then type "map cp_dustbowl" into console (this will load a server for you).
I'm fucking peeved by all these free to play people.
No, you're not all bad. Some of you just never had the dosh to spit out to buy this game. Whatever.
But 95% of the Free to Play kids I encountered are the very people I played TF2 to get away from. I've been getting bitched out all game for "hacking" when I do Degrease/Axtinguish combo, called hacker for compression blasting rockets, called a hardscoping faggot when I used a sniper, called hacker when I rocket jumped because a "rocket would kill u in 1 hit"
I join my favorite 12v12 CTF servers and I get spammed straight to hell with trade invites and people yelling "CLOAK AND DAGGR PLZ"
Face stabbing spies everywhere complaining that this game is too hard or I'm hacking or something. And as I hinted to before, fucking beggars everywhere. Hey, go buy that fucking, what is it, .75 cent item that lets you have an account like us that lets items drop for you.
Christ this was a terrible, terrible move. Hopefully these kids will just filter out within the next few weeks. Otherwise TF2 is essentially dead to me.
òk this is the first time i play tf2 since it went free, OH MY GOD this is bad. My favorite servers are filled with aim boters already... jesus christ people cheating even in F tf2.... Who thought tf2 free was good idea, was wrong.
On June 26 2011 01:07 whiteLotus wrote: òk this is the first time i play tf2 since it went free, OH MY GOD this is bad. My favorite servers are filled with aim boters already... jesus christ people cheating even in F tf2.... Who thought tf2 free was good idea, was wrong.
I don't experience any difference between pre- and post-patch in my favourite servers...derp
On June 26 2011 01:07 whiteLotus wrote: òk this is the first time i play tf2 since it went free, OH MY GOD this is bad. My favorite servers are filled with aim boters already... jesus christ people cheating even in F tf2.... Who thought tf2 free was good idea, was wrong.
I don't experience any difference between pre- and post-patch in my favourite servers...derp
wanna share your servers? i cant play in mines, 3 aim boters in 1 server atm hilarious
I still prefer TFC, but TF2 is entertaining at least.
Sadly all the old TFC servers are slowly dying T_T
edit: TFC and TF2 are nothing alike imo. 90% of the skill in TFC is landing grenades, which *every* class except scout has. HWguy doesn't mean anything if an engineer can 1-shot him with an EMP grenade while bunny hopping around hehe
Is it useful to learn how to play heavy? I don't want to get competitive, but I do want to get to a stage where both teams are using teamwork. currently I just go heavy (medic with a friend) and win pubs, but I get the feeling the heavy would suck against good opponents, so I should learn demo/soldier instead (I don't really like pyro)
On June 25 2011 13:38 Fuzzmosis wrote: Welcome to Fuzzys Quick(Long) Guide to Classes: TF2 is a fantastic game. Like all good things, some strange people will not like it, but so be it. It's free, give it a try.
...
A lot of what you've said here is pretty charged and misguided. Especially about how to play the classes.
Professional tournaments only use 4 classes (Sometimes 5) because.. well, they don't like playing the full game.
It's not as simple as that, I'd imagine TeamLiquid of all places would be incredibly understanding of the fact that in a competitive setting, you use the best/most effective strategies (i.e. very rarely using carriers in SC2), and unfortunately those strategies are best executed using only 4 of the classes for the most part (competitively its played 6v6).
I'm not at all disagreeing with what I'm saying about the classes is being misguided for people who are quite experienced with the game.: "Thank God! Finally, I can see this vast, customizable game the way it's meant to be played! 4 classes only!".
However, for entirely new people? Do you think I should tell Medics that they should follow the proper healing order? Do you think I should try to explain how a scout's role is to hammer wayward soldiers and yell out "MEATSHOT" whenever possible? (Never played against Carnage, just had to say it) . Do you expect triple air pipes from someone playing a game because "eh, it's free?"?
It was deliberately shorthanded for new pub players to get some general idea how to begin playing their classes. It was clearly not an in depth guide. Without going into 1000's of words, it's just general encouragement to get a feel for them. You're free to disagree, but... I don't see the basis.
On June 26 2011 01:22 Wesso wrote: Is it useful to learn how to play heavy? I don't want to get competitive, but I do want to get to a stage where both teams are using teamwork. currently I just go heavy (medic with a friend) and win pubs, but I get the feeling the heavy would suck against good opponents, so I should learn demo/soldier instead (I don't really like pyro)
Pretty much ye. Heavy is useful as a straight up teamwork class, but you aren't going to encounter a group of people with sufficient teamwork to take advantage of it's weaknesses on a public server (other than just a better heavy/medic combo on the other team of course).
On June 26 2011 01:22 Wesso wrote: Is it useful to learn how to play heavy? I don't want to get competitive, but I do want to get to a stage where both teams are using teamwork. currently I just go heavy (medic with a friend) and win pubs, but I get the feeling the heavy would suck against good opponents, so I should learn demo/soldier instead (I don't really like pyro)
Learn to play all classes, each one is useful/fun in different situations.
On June 26 2011 01:22 Wesso wrote: Is it useful to learn how to play heavy? I don't want to get competitive, but I do want to get to a stage where both teams are using teamwork. currently I just go heavy (medic with a friend) and win pubs, but I get the feeling the heavy would suck against good opponents, so I should learn demo/soldier instead (I don't really like pyro)
Pretty much ye. Heavy is useful as a straight up teamwork class, but you aren't going to encounter a group of people with sufficient teamwork to take advantage of it's weaknesses on a public server (other than just a better heavy/medic combo on the other team of course).
In public games, if you are an extremely good player you have the greatest capacity to do well as Heavy. You make a name for yourself, medics stick with you. It has been trending this way in the Australian servers recently. I am one of these heavies lol. Went 50 kills and 0 deaths the other day leading our team to victory twice on cp_5gorge
On June 26 2011 01:21 whiteLotus wrote: man i hope server owners soon will somehow develop a plugin to get rid of free-play people.
That plugin actually already exists. It checks backback space of people who connect, ftp peeps only have 50, everybody else has 300+. I think Valve may intervene on that eventually tho.
Personally I've had no problems with ftp ppl on the servers I play on, probably because they are already full of paying players...
Also, pretty much every class is used in competitive, but if you are interested in getting into 6v6 then I'd suggest getting good with the 4 "core" classes, Soldier, Scout, Demo and Medic. The others remaining classes are situational, Engineer/Heavy/Pyro can be very useful defence and Spy and Sniper are great at making picks when the game slows down. As a Demo or Medic you'll never ever switch class, but as a Scout (and sometimes Solly) you can find yourself offclassing quite regularly, especially on maps that particularly favour one of the 5 aforementioned utility classes.
In public any class goes, but quite often you'll be playing a map which basically comes down to a single chokepoints filled with spam, so Demos and well timed Ubers/Kritz reign supreme there. Playing Scout there is like being a little Zergling on a map full of Seige Tanks :D
Not really true- demoman is much more self sufficient than a heavy and can inflict similar levels of punishment. Although, yeah, heavies own with a medic and a team that actually spy checks.
Although yeah, learn how to play heavy. It is probably one of the easier class to learn how to play well too (but few people know how to, which is a shame)- it basically consists of hopping around a corner while spinning up your gun mid-hop and then owning the surprised sucker around the corner. Works pretty well out in the open too to help dodge rockets and whatnot, just no element of surprise. Also, never spin up in plain sight of a sniper for very long. Easier to play heavy with sandvich too.
Having a good heavy is staple of most good pub teams. They're a focal point to drive the attack forward, making it easier for demomen and soldiers to clean up others and blow up sentries to advance the attack. It's possible to do it without a heavy, but in general, it makes life a lot easier. If the other team is particularly bad, you can just roll right their sentries with an uber too.
The flip side of that is, if your team sucks at spy checking and taking out snipers, it can be hard to do your job (you can catch most spies, but if you want to be immortal, your team needs to step up occasionally too). But hopping around a corner and wiping out 3 enemies makes it easier for everyone else to do their job, so if you're doing a good job, chances are your team will follow suit. Also, heavies are pretty awesome on payload maps until they hit the sentry nests since the need for a medic is lessened.
On June 26 2011 01:21 whiteLotus wrote: man i hope server owners soon will somehow develop a plugin to get rid of free-play people.
That plugin actually already exists. It checks backback space of people who connect, ftp peeps only have 50, everybody else has 300+. I think Valve may intervene on that eventually tho.
Personally I've had no problems with ftp ppl on the servers I play on, probably because they are already full of paying players...
Also, pretty much every class is used in competitive, but if you are interested in getting into 6v6 then I'd suggest getting good with the 4 "core" classes, Soldier, Scout, Demo and Medic. The others remaining classes are situational, Engineer/Heavy/Pyro can be very useful defence and Spy and Sniper are great at making picks when the game slows down. As a Demo or Medic you'll never ever switch class, but as a Scout (and sometimes Solly) you can find yourself offclassing quite regularly, especially on maps that particularly favour one of the 5 aforementioned utility classes.
In public any class goes, but quite often you'll be playing a map which basically comes down to a single chokepoints filled with spam, so Demos and well timed Ubers/Kritz reign supreme there. Playing Scout there is like being a little Zergling on a map full of Seige Tanks :D
On June 25 2011 23:00 calvincible wrote: has anyone played TFC (the original)? TF2 is like what cs source is to 1.6. made it terrible.
The relationship between 1.6 and Source isn't even comparable to TFC and TF2. 1.6 was the original slow paced, semi-realistic FPS game; and Source was effectively just the same game recreated on the Source engine with some very small changes (for better or for worse is your opinion really).
However TFC was an extremely fast paced CTF game, very similar to Quake 4v4 CTF (which to be fair, Team Fortress originally started as a quake mod). TF2 on the other hand is a moderately slow paced objective-based game, all of the classes have EXTREMELY specific roles compared to TFC. It tends to revolve around Capture Points and Payload (cart pushing) maps on public, and competitively is played almost exclusively on symmetrical linear 5CP maps.
On June 25 2011 13:38 Fuzzmosis wrote: Welcome to Fuzzys Quick(Long) Guide to Classes: TF2 is a fantastic game. Like all good things, some strange people will not like it, but so be it. It's free, give it a try.
...
A lot of what you've said here is pretty charged and misguided. Especially about how to play the classes.
Professional tournaments only use 4 classes (Sometimes 5) because.. well, they don't like playing the full game.
It's not as simple as that, I'd imagine TeamLiquid of all places would be incredibly understanding of the fact that in a competitive setting, you use the best/most effective strategies (i.e. very rarely using carriers in SC2), and unfortunately those strategies are best executed using only 4 of the classes for the most part (competitively its played 6v6).
On June 25 2011 23:37 Vearo wrote: I am having trouble setting up a private server with a friend for practice. Every time I make the server, it starts in LAN mode. Whenever I use the command sv_lan 0 (which disables LAN mode) and change the map (which makes the change take place) the game crashes.
It used to work a while ago, but not now. Any ideas?
Unfortunately, even if you get it to run, you'll have a lot of ping issues and will still need to sort out port forwarding and what not. The best thing to do is just jump on a medium-ish full server with your friend, and sit on Skype/mumble/etc together.
However if you still want to do it, try opening console while at the main menu (the ` key still opens it at the main menu), type sv_lan 0 there, then type "map cp_dustbowl" into console (this will load a server for you).
Oh my god, I can't believe you just said TFC was a fast paced CTF like quake 4v4 CTF. TFC was by far the slowest TF up until TF2... I can't believe you could compare the only TF mod that dumbed down the learning curve (like by taking out bunnyhopping..) to quake 4v4 CTF, which still requires great skill with mobility/strafe jumping.... while in TFC there was 0 mobility skill whatsoever.
That would be like me making a Q3 mod that took out strafe jumping but still called it fast paced.
Hey - the original Team Fortress is still played. Just download QuakeWorld and hop onto 74.86.171.201:27500, and see what the deal is.
Now note though, that while both TFC and TF2 have speed caps and no instant bunnyjumpining unlike quake games, theoretically they still use the same movement physics as the original Quake, aka they have air control, and in that sense the movement is significantly more developed than Q2, Q3, Q4 etc modern quake style games.
On June 24 2011 11:26 koveras wrote: I feel scammed... I paid 50 euros for that orange box :/
The orange box, back in 2008 (?) was one of the best money I spent yet. And you know what? I had TF2 installed but almost never played in the last two years. Now all the buzz around F2P TF2 made me want back and frag like a mad. Now I'm back in the game and I'm having a blast.
When did you bought the Orange box? Because there isn't many games that you continue playing after few weeks after buying it but TF2 is aging pretty well. Give it a shot. ^^
On June 24 2011 11:26 koveras wrote: I feel scammed... I paid 50 euros for that orange box :/
The orange box, back in 2008 (?) was one of the best money I spent yet. And you know what? I had TF2 installed but almost never played in the last two years. Now all the buzz around F2P TF2 made me want back and frag like a mad. Now I'm back in the game and I'm having a blast.
When did you bought the Orange box? Because there isn't many games that you continue playing after few weeks after buying it but TF2 is aging pretty well. Give it a shot. ^^
bought orange box for 20€ like 3 weeks ago. dont regret it at all. f2p is amazing (unless the game now really gets flooded by cheaters)
On June 26 2011 01:22 Wesso wrote: Is it useful to learn how to play heavy? I don't want to get competitive, but I do want to get to a stage where both teams are using teamwork. currently I just go heavy (medic with a friend) and win pubs, but I get the feeling the heavy would suck against good opponents, so I should learn demo/soldier instead (I don't really like pyro)
Pretty much ye. Heavy is useful as a straight up teamwork class, but you aren't going to encounter a group of people with sufficient teamwork to take advantage of it's weaknesses on a public server (other than just a better heavy/medic combo on the other team of course).
In public games, if you are an extremely good player you have the greatest capacity to do well as Heavy. You make a name for yourself, medics stick with you. It has been trending this way in the Australian servers recently. I am one of these heavies lol. Went 50 kills and 0 deaths the other day leading our team to victory twice on cp_5gorge
Sure, in public you'll get a lot of kills, but you can definitely do a lot more damage as demoman assuming you have a medic making sure you don't die and ubering you occasionally.
On June 26 2011 02:17 ploy wrote: Oh my god, I can't believe you just said TFC was a fast paced CTF like quake 4v4 CTF. TFC was by far the slowest TF up until TF2... I can't believe you could compare the only TF mod that dumbed down the learning curve (like by taking out bunnyhopping..) to quake 4v4 CTF, which still requires great skill with mobility/strafe jumping.... while in TFC there was 0 mobility skill whatsoever.
That would be like me making a Q3 mod that took out strafe jumping but still called it fast paced.
If you actually played TFC, you clearly can't have been very good at it because Conc jumping was a pretty massive deal and had a massive skill ceiling:
For anyone who doesn't know, in TFC, there were concussive grenades that if you were in mid-air when it exploded, would give you momentum, these were used to great effect to batter around the maps at insane speed.
Heavies are for pubs with shitty snipers. Any half decent sniper would clown you all day. Demos worth anything will too. Pubs are chaotic with the number of people playing on the maps, don't expect to learn anything other than how to move point to point.
If you bought the game, if got everything you paid for, sure someone got it for free later, but you got exactly the game you paid for, you lose nothing by the game becomming free, be happy that others got it for free instesd of being bitter on behalf of someone else's happines.
On June 26 2011 01:22 Wesso wrote: Is it useful to learn how to play heavy? I don't want to get competitive, but I do want to get to a stage where both teams are using teamwork. currently I just go heavy (medic with a friend) and win pubs, but I get the feeling the heavy would suck against good opponents, so I should learn demo/soldier instead (I don't really like pyro)
Pretty much ye. Heavy is useful as a straight up teamwork class, but you aren't going to encounter a group of people with sufficient teamwork to take advantage of it's weaknesses on a public server (other than just a better heavy/medic combo on the other team of course).
In public games, if you are an extremely good player you have the greatest capacity to do well as Heavy. You make a name for yourself, medics stick with you. It has been trending this way in the Australian servers recently. I am one of these heavies lol. Went 50 kills and 0 deaths the other day leading our team to victory twice on cp_5gorge
Sure, in public you'll get a lot of kills, but you can definitely do a lot more damage as demoman assuming you have a medic making sure you don't die and ubering you occasionally.
On June 26 2011 02:17 ploy wrote: Oh my god, I can't believe you just said TFC was a fast paced CTF like quake 4v4 CTF. TFC was by far the slowest TF up until TF2... I can't believe you could compare the only TF mod that dumbed down the learning curve (like by taking out bunnyhopping..) to quake 4v4 CTF, which still requires great skill with mobility/strafe jumping.... while in TFC there was 0 mobility skill whatsoever.
That would be like me making a Q3 mod that took out strafe jumping but still called it fast paced.
If you actually played TFC, you clearly can't have been very good at it because Conc jumping was a pretty massive deal and had a massive skill ceiling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_qqFQF2p4M
For anyone who doesn't know, in TFC, there were concussive grenades that if you were in mid-air when it exploded, would give you momentum, these were used to great effect to batter around the maps at insane speed.
TF2 is practically camping by comparison.
You are right, but what he was talking about TFC compared to OTHER TF mods. Mainly the original QuakeWorld TF- which is brutal in its speed. Has the speed of quake, and the perks of TFC. Obviously conc jumping etc included.
Um, no. Snipers were showing up in comp play to counter well-coordinated HW-Medics. Pyros aren't bad in pubs as well if you know how to airblast. Spies break up Medics and Engies in pubs as well.
The truth is that you should never have more than 2 or 3 people of those classes and even then at 3 is overkill for a class like Spy/Sniper.
If you're good at any class, you're good for your team.
Um, no. Snipers were showing up in comp play to counter well-coordinated HW-Medics. Pyros aren't bad in pubs as well if you know how to airblast. Spies break up Medics and Engies in pubs as well.
The truth is that you should never have more than 2 or 3 people of those classes and even then at 3 is overkill for a class like Spy/Sniper.
If you're good at any class, you're good for your team.
The key word is "new". Not "comp" or "good".
I was going to use the word "newb" instead of "new", but that might have offended more people.
On June 24 2011 11:26 koveras wrote: I feel scammed... I paid 50 euros for that orange box :/
The orange box, back in 2008 (?) was one of the best money I spent yet. And you know what? I had TF2 installed but almost never played in the last two years. Now all the buzz around F2P TF2 made me want back and frag like a mad. Now I'm back in the game and I'm having a blast.
When did you bought the Orange box? Because there isn't many games that you continue playing after few weeks after buying it but TF2 is aging pretty well. Give it a shot. ^^
bought orange box for 20€ like 3 weeks ago. dont regret it at all. f2p is amazing (unless the game now really gets flooded by cheaters)
I just checked that I can use an in-game badge ( I didn't play for a long long time....^^) that show your 'veterancy'. Mine is a gold bagde from November 27 2007 O.O LOL Now that I remember I bought the orange box as soon as it came out ^^
Um, no. Snipers were showing up in comp play to counter well-coordinated HW-Medics. Pyros aren't bad in pubs as well if you know how to airblast. Spies break up Medics and Engies in pubs as well.
The truth is that you should never have more than 2 or 3 people of those classes and even then at 3 is overkill for a class like Spy/Sniper.
If you're good at any class, you're good for your team.
The key word is "new". Not "comp" or "good".
I was going to use the word "newb" instead of "new", but that might have offended more people.
Then you're making assumptions on which classes people find easy or hard to learn?
On June 26 2011 09:30 Chairman Ray wrote: After clicking start playing, it has been retrieving server information for half an hour, is this normal?
Sometimes it glitches while joining a server. You'll get used it. Just rejoin the server, If this ever happens and you get "steam validation rejected" it just means you're actually in the server and haven't timed out yet, so you can't join twice. Just wait a few minutes until you've timed out then rejoin.
Not really... some things get tweaked a bit (backburner used to give pyros +25 health, that got removed pretty quickly), but it doesn't happen too often. Thing is, everything in TF2 is pretty freaking overpowered in the right situation, so there's not an awful lot of balancing to be done. People who whine about x being overpowered are pretty full of it, given its a game with instant death backstabs, instant death headshots (if fully charged), and an ability that makes a medic and whoever invulnerable, among many, many "overpowered" things.
Soldier and demoman definitely have the highest skill cap (maybe spy too, but really good spies are quite rare). Finding a good demoman in a pub is hard- like 60% of demos are running around with a targe and a sword.
On June 26 2011 10:09 Shiragaku wrote: Are there balance patches in TF2?
Yes, and for good reason. Heavy was way broken back when Natasha had super-slow (not to mention the Sandman ><), it'd have easily been on the "no self-respect" part of the chart. And stuff like airblast and flare crits were added in patches, though that was more "semi-fix" than "balance", I guess.
Some classes have a higher skill floor than others and some classes have a higher skill ceiling than others (not mutually exclusive), and some weapons are definite upgrades over other weapons, but the game is much better now than it was then.
Aside from the "do you have any self respect thing" regarding demo, that's actually hilariously accurate.
Self respect thing is 100% accurate. Demoman is way overpowered.
after playing the game for some weeks now i gotta agree somewhat. demoman is the only class that i consider "out of balance". fast,lotsa life, easy to play, tons of dmg and 2 demoman taking turns spamming can block a choke against like anything.
I bought it on release, clocked in about 300 hours over the years (mainly as medic ). Free to play is good because it'll bring in fresh blood, but I also worry about the type of player it might attract.
Aside from the "do you have any self respect thing" regarding demo, that's actually hilariously accurate.
Self respect thing is 100% accurate. Demoman is way overpowered.
after playing the game for some weeks now i gotta agree somewhat. demoman is the only class that i consider "out of balance". fast,lotsa life, easy to play, tons of dmg and 2 demoman taking turns spamming can block a choke against like anything.
hering is a dude I know well, he's just trolling.
As someone who's been playing the game for about 3 years, originally a public player who got into competitive, I can tell you that absolutely is not the case. The drawback for demos is that while they have insane DPS, they are absolutely awful at close range due to the lack of any hitscan weapons. Sure some great pipe aim will help to negate this problem, but the bottom line is that if you take a fairly skilled demoman vs a fairly skilled scout, the scout is going to win a 1v1 90% of the time.
I have 1700 hours on tf2. I like it. Although I have to say ever since the game became free, I've never seen so many awful players in my life. But I guess that is expected for awhile anyway.
Thanks for the heads up. Just finished downloading it. I played it when I got the orange box for a little, but not much so it should be cool to give it another go.
Aside from the "do you have any self respect thing" regarding demo, that's actually hilariously accurate.
Self respect thing is 100% accurate. Demoman is way overpowered.
I think the self-respect aspect refers to the fact that demoman often hurts himself in his offensive attempts. Hitting pipes takes way more aim than hitting meatshots. Also, he is the best class.
Aside from the "do you have any self respect thing" regarding demo, that's actually hilariously accurate.
Self respect thing is 100% accurate. Demoman is way overpowered.
after playing the game for some weeks now i gotta agree somewhat. demoman is the only class that i consider "out of balance". fast,lotsa life, easy to play, tons of dmg and 2 demoman taking turns spamming can block a choke against like anything.
hering is a dude I know well, he's just trolling.
As someone who's been playing the game for about 3 years, originally a public player who got into competitive, I can tell you that absolutely is not the case. The drawback for demos is that while they have insane DPS, they are absolutely awful at close range due to the lack of any hitscan weapons. Sure some great pipe aim will help to negate this problem, but the bottom line is that if you take a fairly skilled demoman vs a fairly skilled scout, the scout is going to win a 1v1 90% of the time.
The demoman can minimize the difficulty of the fight by making sure it takes place in cramped location, to some degree. At least if he isn't caught off guard. Dealing with scouts at mid-range isn't that bad either, even 1v1. And if you have any support, that fight starts tilting to the demoman pretty quickly. At least in pubs. I find soldiers to be way more annoying as a demoman, since they have the health to outlast you, and they have a much easier time in close quarters fights.
I've been whining that demomen are OP for years now. I still think they're the only class that literally takes no skill to play. You can spam grenades in any direction and get many kills.
On June 26 2011 11:06 calvincible wrote: did anyone play tfc competitively? i was pretty big on it and itd be cool to reconnect with some community members
A couple of players from the tfc play TF2 now. I know some, but they are from europe.
On June 26 2011 11:31 Deadlyhazard wrote: I've been whining that demomen are OP for years now. I still think they're the only class that literally takes no skill to play. You can spam grenades in any direction and get many kills.
Lol.
Heavy is 100% no skill class. You just hold down M1 + W and kill shit.
On June 26 2011 11:31 Deadlyhazard wrote: I've been whining that demomen are OP for years now. I still think they're the only class that literally takes no skill to play. You can spam grenades in any direction and get many kills.
Lol.
Heavy is 100% no skill class. You just hold down M1 + W and kill shit.
You've probably never seen a good demoman play.
Tracking, positioning, and knowing when to initiate the fight are skills. Being good at those skills seperates the noob heavies (who sadly get a decent amount of kills) from the good heavies.
And yeah, demo is kinda OP but it still takes a lot of skill to play. Sticky trapping, flick pipes, and predicting movement takes lots of practice. It's kinda like having good reaver+shuttle micro, ridiculously strong but hard to execute.
it took me a full 6 hours to become a pub star sniper, its quite easy. Although the quake tf and TFC experience might have something to do with that. playing scout with out conc nades sucks actually the lack of nades in this game is sad.
On June 26 2011 10:38 cynical wrote: I have 1700 hours on tf2. I like it. Although I have to say ever since the game became free, I've never seen so many awful players in my life. But I guess that is expected for awhile anyway.
Don't think of them as awful players. Think of them as free kills and think of their blood as candy that you must devour as if it's halloween.
Haven't played TF2 in awhile. I wasn't the best but when I played actively I was at a point where only the top3 or so on the server were threats to me. God I'd love to see the server now filled with people even worse.
Aside from the "do you have any self respect thing" regarding demo, that's actually hilariously accurate.
Self respect thing is 100% accurate. Demoman is way overpowered.
Are you sure you just aren't good enough to kill the class with no hit scan weapons? Killing a vanilla demo isn't anywhere near as hard as everyone makes it out to be.
Im downloading it, almost done, is there a TL dedicated server or something ? was a big fan of TF back when i was on 56k.... long time ago i was always crying cable connection with snipe was not fair, i got lots of fun with turrets.. turrets worked on 56k
I've never really understood the appeal to this game, and I actually recall buying it and never playing much haha. Can someone explain to me why this game is fun? Does it have a high 'learning curve,' or 'appreciation curve' so to speak?
I think I'll be sticking away from this game, the ridiculous amounts of downloads you have to go through and it's mixed reviews make it seem kinda bad :/
It's a great game! I've had it sense 2008 and it's only gotten better. Also I saw people bitching that items can be bought. almost everything can be crafted! If it can't be crafted anymore then there's an item that does the same thing. Another thing! Yes there are alot of downloads. The game came out in 2007 guys. They update the game like crazy and it doesn't cost you anything! They don't have a map market place which is also nice.(fuck you blizzard even thinking that) It's a game not to be taken seriously, it's just plan fun! if you want to play with me my name is Snickersnee666
On June 26 2011 16:26 KimJongChill wrote: I've never really understood the appeal to this game, and I actually recall buying it and never playing much haha. Can someone explain to me why this game is fun? Does it have a high 'learning curve,' or 'appreciation curve' so to speak?
Yes and no. It's not terribly fast and twitch based, so it comes down to learning and finding something you're good at, which shouldn't take too long since between all of the unlocks that TF2 many of the classes are less niche and more able to take on the roles of other classes than before the mass amounts of unlockable items. It's just a matter of aquiring said items, and figuring out when and how to use them.
On June 26 2011 16:31 AnxiousHippo wrote: I think I'll be sticking away from this game, the ridiculous amounts of downloads you have to go through and it's mixed reviews make it seem kinda bad :/
mixed reviews? afair tf2 got the best reviews of any multiplayer fps in the last few years. people bitch about the items and new players now but i dont see the problem with that at all.
let steam handle the download overnight and give it a try. the game even managed to get a friend of mine hooked who never played a fps or any game online before. its just fun and for free most likely the best game deal in the internet now.
On June 26 2011 21:40 writer22816 wrote: brb hopping on TF2 server as demoman
some pointers would be nice ^^
just slowly learn the maps and all the classes and have fun. :> if you played other fps online imho soldier (if you playd games like quake) and sniper are very easy to pick up imho.
Aside from the "do you have any self respect thing" regarding demo, that's actually hilariously accurate.
Self respect thing is 100% accurate. Demoman is way overpowered.
after playing the game for some weeks now i gotta agree somewhat. demoman is the only class that i consider "out of balance". fast,lotsa life, easy to play, tons of dmg and 2 demoman taking turns spamming can block a choke against like anything.
hering is a dude I know well, he's just trolling.
As someone who's been playing the game for about 3 years, originally a public player who got into competitive, I can tell you that absolutely is not the case. The drawback for demos is that while they have insane DPS, they are absolutely awful at close range due to the lack of any hitscan weapons. Sure some great pipe aim will help to negate this problem, but the bottom line is that if you take a fairly skilled demoman vs a fairly skilled scout, the scout is going to win a 1v1 90% of the time.
isnt that quite the theorycraft? a one on one in a open area like never happens and doesnt matter much.and as scout i can kill pretty much all classes easily 1v1 in a open area anyways.also if you arent face to face stickys triggered to explode mid air are almost "semi hitscan" if you know what i mean
ofcourse i dont have huge expirience(well 80++ hours playtime already <.<). but imho demo is too fast and resilient considering the huge amount of dmg he can do and how easily he can stop/heavily slow down the enemy just by blindly spamming nades into a choke(sometimes from a perfectly safe position since he can stay out of los often). great offense,great defense,great stats,great utility with the only weakness beeing 1v1 situations in open areas which are entirely avoidable.
and it seems many agree. in the steam forums there is a like 300 pages long thread about demoman OP ~~
On June 26 2011 21:40 writer22816 wrote: brb hopping on TF2 server as demoman
some pointers would be nice ^^
For demoman, when you are being ubered by a medic, it is probably for one reason and one reason only, in pubs anyway, to take down Sentry Guns. Do so with a sticky launcher :D I would go on...but I could go on forever.
On June 26 2011 16:31 AnxiousHippo wrote: I think I'll be sticking away from this game, the ridiculous amounts of downloads you have to go through and it's mixed reviews make it seem kinda bad :/
Are you serious? The game recieved critical acclaim. and BTW Valve would NEVER release a game that would get "mixed" reviews lol
On June 26 2011 21:40 writer22816 wrote: brb hopping on TF2 server as demoman
some pointers would be nice ^^
Some basics:
Keep your weapons reloaded at all times. Sticky nade launcher can be charged to shoot much farther. Learn how your normal nade launcher bounces around the walls and edges on the popular maps. Learn how to nade jump and the timings for the jumps you want to make. 3 sticky nades is enough to kill any class outside I *THINK* an overhealed Heavy. 1 crit-sticky is enough to kill most classes If you're going to defend an entrance, hitting stickys on the top of the door way or ceiling is better than the sides and ground.
Pyros and Scouts will eat you alive most of the time. At least the good ones.
Lastly since I don't see any Demos doing this intentionally in pubs, your sticky can actually launch an uber-ed class pretty high/far and therefore breaking apart the uber, so try and time the explosion so.
I've played TF2 a lot but just pubs. Yesterday some friends (former cs clanmates) messaged me that they were playing TF2 for free so I decided to join in on the fun. What I saw was A LOT of noobs
I often play medic because it's a key class and a lot of people don't like playing it but I think it's pretty rewarding. Some pointers for being a medic and for players playing a long with a medic:
Don't steal medipacks from medics, they will heal you, they can't heal themselves (they do regenerate health... zergstyle)
When your gun lights up that means that a medic has geven you a 'kritz' (critical hits for a short period). Try to do damage, don't just stand there.
When you're a soldier and want healing don't equip the equalizer. So annoying.
When being a medic:
- Heal constantly to charge your uber (godmode for a short period). You can also buff your teammates.
- When giving ubers it's best to pick a class that has a high damage output (duh), but you can also check the scoreboard for good players. Seems logical and all but i can assure you that it sucks when your urber is wasted on a bad player.
- Always watch your back for spies trying to backstab you.
- Kritzkrieg is best used defensively, regular medigun for offense.
- When you are giving a player an ubercharge it's good to run in front of them to block sentries shooting at them. This way the damage dealer has an easier time aiming.
On June 24 2011 10:14 masterbreti wrote: so essentially now the games more powerful items will cost money. so whoever has the most cash get the most op weapons.
That really doesn't make much sense but ok...
The weapons are mostly sidegrades, so non-default weapons are not super op. Drops happen often and you can always spend 10$ to upgrade to premium. They can't let every free account get hat drops or we would get computer farms with TF2 running on AFK servers.
TF2 is the better version of FPS games. The shitty CoD and Battlefield games only try to simulate reality and encourage 2 shot deaths. TF2, contrarily, depends on strategy and teamwork and has a diverse set of original weapons.
LOL
Because knives are more effective than bullets in real life. There is nothing realistic about those games.
If anybody wants coaching via voicechat (and lives in the western united states) I'd be willing to do so. We could find a server to go on and I could help you ;P
On June 27 2011 00:36 JimCozad wrote: I've played TF2 a lot but just pubs. Yesterday some friends (former cs clanmates) messaged me that they were playing TF2 for free so I decided to join in on the fun. What I saw was A LOT of noobs
I often play medic because it's a key class and a lot of people don't like playing it but I think it's pretty rewarding. Some pointers for being a medic and for players playing a long with a medic:
Don't steal medipacks from medics, they will heal you, they can't heal themselves (they do regenerate health... zergstyle)
When your gun lights up that means that a medic has geven you a 'kritz' (critical hits for a short period). Try to do damage, don't just stand there.
When you're a soldier and want healing don't equip the equalizer. So annoying.
When being a medic:
- Heal constantly to charge your uber (godmode for a short period). You can also buff your teammates.
- When giving ubers it's best to pick a class that has a high damage output (duh), but you can also check the scoreboard for good players. Seems logical and all but i can assure you that it sucks when your urber is wasted on a bad player.
- Always watch your back for spies trying to backstab you.
- Kritzkrieg is best used defensively, regular medigun for offense.
- When you are giving a player an ubercharge it's good to run in front of them to block sentries shooting at them. This way the damage dealer has an easier time aiming.
- Heal other medics first.
If you're being forced to pop a krtiz you're doing it wrong. The faster charge time allows for you to pressure faster than the regular ubercharge. In the context of terrible maps like dustbowl and goldrush you have a point, you can't rush out of that choke uphill with a kritz and survive usually. However 5cp maps the kritz allows for faster and stronger pushes in an effort to get the medic before he gets his uber. In the end, yes use it or lose it but still, do everything to make the kritz on your terms because its far less effective when its on the enemies terms.
And a side note, spys are incredibly easy to spot. You don't need to constantly be looking behind you so much as you need to know the signs and be able to hear the loud as hell uncloaking sound.
I can only recommend you european servers, but the hampshire heavies, wdg, lokalen and special attack communites all host good servers I like to play on from time to time. There are more, but those are the ones I usualy play on..
Bleh...I hate spies. When comparing the number of times I die to other classes, are at the very bottom. But when a spy kills you, doesn't it feel incredibly humiliating? Not only did he kill you, he made sure you know that he killed you, you herp de derp.
On June 28 2011 03:48 Shiragaku wrote: Bleh...I hate spies. When comparing the number of times I die to other classes, are at the very bottom. But when a spy kills you, doesn't it feel incredibly humiliating? Not only did he kill you, he made sure you know that he killed you, you herp de derp.
Never particularly bothers me... as long as my team isn't being dumb and puts some effort into killing him after he's revealed himself, at the very least. Unless it is a face stab. Then I just rage.
Haha. On my home TF2 server we have 4-5 really really good spies. Makes me rage when they stairstam. Or do an impossible stab popping out of the water. Or just own you as scout with an ambassador headshot >.>
On June 24 2011 10:52 eatmyshorts5 wrote: This move basically guarantees that DOTA 2 is gonna be free. This excites me.
I'd rather pay for the full game and have everything available instead of the league of legends ala cart model.
You wont get a sense of progression that way though and the game might get boring more quickly as well. Not to mention a definite larger community if the game is free
Personally I don't have much of a negative or positive opinion on the whole thing. Hopefully it prolongs the game's community and gets more people interested in the competitive side of play, but it could just as easily peter out. Either way though, I guess I'll keep playing.
I have been playing since it came out, and will continue to play. I don't see anything wrong with the game being opened up to a lot of new players. Sure some people that come to play will be trolls as is expected with any free game, but a lot of players will come to actually learn how to play the game.
It excites me that they are doing this, I think it will end up being a good thing. Not like they had masses of people still purchasing, most of their revenue was coming from the store.
On June 24 2011 10:52 eatmyshorts5 wrote: This move basically guarantees that DOTA 2 is gonna be free. This excites me.
I'd rather pay for the full game and have everything available instead of the league of legends ala cart model.
You wont get a sense of progression that way though and the game might get boring more quickly as well. Not to mention a definite larger community if the game is free
Dota is not supposed to have a sense of progression. It is like Starcraft, you just get better. If it bores you, I guess it happens. But let's stop getting off topic. :p
On June 24 2011 10:52 eatmyshorts5 wrote: This move basically guarantees that DOTA 2 is gonna be free. This excites me.
I'd rather pay for the full game and have everything available instead of the league of legends ala cart model.
You wont get a sense of progression that way though and the game might get boring more quickly as well. Not to mention a definite larger community if the game is free
Sense of progression?
Dota2 isn't an MMO. There shouldn't be a sense of progression.
Is anyone else having latency issues with this game since it became F2P? prior to the update, I would get an average 50 ping for alot of servers. Now with the update its like 120+ on all servers.
However this is just isolated to this game because i get my normal 50 ping on other games such as CS, CoD, WoW
this game is sooooooo goooooood :o played it with a buddy on skype for several hours now in the last few days and we had so much fun... more fun than i ever had with CSS or other online shooters. thanks valve for being awesome and releasing this for free!!! <3
Played it a bit this week, took me 2 round to almost always finish in the top point (playing medic or soldier).
Pretty fun... now I need to find some server with actual good player.. The one I currently go are full of bad player... Anyone have some server IP I coudl try from US/Can East coast ?
Once they fix the issue with the server browser not showing available servers, they will be golden. Currently stuck playing on the server in my history, which isn't inherently bad, yet I can't just jump servers if I get stuck with a team that wants to run 5 spies on a 7 man team.
I think I may have fallen in love with this game again. Having such a blast again. And I've talked some mates who have never played into trying it out.
On June 29 2011 00:40 FaCE_1 wrote: Played it a bit this week, took me 2 round to almost always finish in the top point (playing medic or soldier).
Pretty fun... now I need to find some server with actual good player.. The one I currently go are full of bad player... Anyone have some server IP I coudl try from US/Can East coast ?
There's some pretty good players who play on this server 216.52.143.41:27015
I've been playing as a medic, and I'm not really understanding the design. I've watched some VODs of top level teams and even watched that live stream last night. Is a medic 100% using the heal and then popping uber? Besides random 1v 1 fights that you shouldn't be getting in, is there anything else?
On June 29 2011 00:52 Dalguno wrote: Just started the other day. Any cool little tricks I should know about?
You can disguise yourself as a member of your own team when playing Spy. Demomen can use a long-range airburst attack if you launch a sticky bomb and time the detonation just before it gets to the enemy. The Pyro's airblast (right-click) can reflect enemy projectiles and extinguish your teammates as well as push enemies. You can defuse or knock around sticky bombs by shooting them. Dispensers are very good for blocking narrow pathways through your base to help prevent runbys. Teleporters can have a huge impact on the game if you use them to move players from the spawn to the front lines.
On June 29 2011 01:42 holynorth wrote: I've been playing as a medic, and I'm not really understanding the design. I've watched some VODs of top level teams and even watched that live stream last night. Is a medic 100% using the heal and then popping uber? Besides random 1v 1 fights that you shouldn't be getting in, is there anything else?
I feel like that is kind of boring after awhile.
The fun part is staying alive with all those grenades/rockets flying all around you It can be boring yes, but if you heal an agressive player you have enough to do.
On June 29 2011 00:52 Dalguno wrote: Just started the other day. Any cool little tricks I should know about?
activating your uber with medic is RMB (I was getting healed by a dude that didn't know how and didn't ask when I asked him to activate it, biggest facepalm moment yet, because we would have won far sooner if he had activated it)
i like this game, but some things are just really annoying about it, first and foremost, is the engineer.
sentry guns kill WAY too fast, and can only really be killed effectively by certain classes. I play scout, and I cannot deal with sentries, so if we are playing 2fort against 3 engineers placing turrets in his own base or something, I am completely useless. I played engineer for like, half an hour and I got more of the achievements unlocked than I did with 4-5 hours of playing the scout (i also went like 10:1 kill to death ratio, whereas my scout is usually about 2:1, if that)
it just doesn't take any skill to be engineers, or for that matter, a heavy. spies require some skill, but are really annoying and I would have liked it if they had a better weapon and couldn't go invisible.
classes that I think are cool are demoman, soldier, scout, sniper, medic, pyro
On June 29 2011 02:48 ishboh wrote: i like this game, but some things are just really annoying about it, first and foremost, is the engineer.
sentry guns kill WAY too fast, and can only really be killed effectively by certain classes. I play scout, and I cannot deal with sentries, so if we are playing 2fort against 3 engineers placing turrets in his own base or something, I am completely useless. I played engineer for like, half an hour and I got more of the achievements unlocked than I did with 4-5 hours of playing the scout (i also went like 10:1 kill to death ratio, whereas my scout is usually about 2:1, if that)
it just doesn't take any skill to be engineers, or for that matter, a heavy. spies require some skill, but are really annoying and I would have liked it if they had a better weapon and couldn't go invisible.
classes that I think are cool are demoman, soldier, scout, sniper, medic, pyro
How do heavies not require skill? And as a medic/heavy player I don't think sentries are overpowered at all. Sure they kill me instantly from time to time but they aren't very hard for demos to take out.
On June 29 2011 02:48 ishboh wrote: i like this game, but some things are just really annoying about it, first and foremost, is the engineer.
sentry guns kill WAY too fast, and can only really be killed effectively by certain classes. I play scout, and I cannot deal with sentries, so if we are playing 2fort against 3 engineers placing turrets in his own base or something, I am completely useless. I played engineer for like, half an hour and I got more of the achievements unlocked than I did with 4-5 hours of playing the scout (i also went like 10:1 kill to death ratio, whereas my scout is usually about 2:1, if that)
it just doesn't take any skill to be engineers, or for that matter, a heavy. spies require some skill, but are really annoying and I would have liked it if they had a better weapon and couldn't go invisible.
classes that I think are cool are demoman, soldier, scout, sniper, medic, pyro
1: Don't play 2fort. It's the best example of terrible map design.
2: Might as well ask why Heavies die miserably to snipers -.-
Scouts are extremely mobile and have little HP. Why would you expect to be able to solo the most immobile class in the game at the height of his strength, inside his sentry nest? This is Team Fortress, unfortunately, and if you and your team aren't up to cooperating (which happens all too often in pubs)...well, that's too bad. Switch classes once in a while if you can't find a cooperative team.
3: Heavies, engineers, and pyro have low skill ceilings. Demoman, soldier, and scout have high skill ceilings. The other classes could probably be grouped like this too, but I'm not going to bother. I do wish Valve would raise the skill ceiling (and lower the skill floor) of some of the classes, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
I see that comment all the time, that engineers are OP - it usually shows a lack of experience with the game TBH. Ditto with talking about heavies not requiring skill. The focus of Team Fortress 2 is teamwork, above all else. This isn't a twitch shooter that puts 13-year old mic screamers on a pedestal, the way MW or CS1.6 do. E.g. try defending without a pair of good engineers and you will realize just how much worse the team is. Even more if the two engineers you have are noobs/trolls. Placement of sentries, awareness not to get killed, understanding when to move up, etc. Experience and familiarity are absolutely critical.
Being a medic is a sacrifice that won't get you frags, but if your team does not have med/heavy combos, it is almost impossible to cap or push good teams. You may be able to scam a few with spies/scouts, if the opponents are poor, but for solid play you need medic/heavies.
Spies/snipers - these classes are usually liabilities, particularly with players of low skills. Bad spies will get pwned by a good spy-checking Pyro, and is fairly ineffective. Now good spies aren't that prevalent, but you will know when they are on your server - and even more if you don't have good pyros on your team.
A bad sniper, however, is probably the most useless class in the game. I'm speaking as an average sniper, mind you. Bad snipers easily waste 2-3 spots on your team - I've seen teams with as many as 5 bad snipers at once. The sniper's #1 target is to remove the opposing team's snipers first, then heavy/medics, etc. When you have low-skill snipers, they aren't even able to counter-snipe, which means free pickings for the opposing snipers. Good luck getting that heavy to the front line.
Really the game is balanced not be weapons, but by teamwork. This game, more than any other, is imbalanced only because the players choose to stack teams. It's up to you whether you choose to join servers which force team balance or not. That said, scramble usually makes the stacking worse...so that area still needs work lol.
A bad sniper, however, is probably the most useless class in the game. I'm speaking as an average sniper, mind you. Bad snipers easily waste 2-3 spots on your team - I've seen teams with as many as 5 bad snipers at once. The sniper's #1 target is to remove the opposing team's snipers first, then heavy/medics, etc. When you have low-skill snipers, they aren't even able to counter-snipe, which means free pickings for the opposing snipers. Good luck getting that heavy to the front line.
I've been playing sniper, and I can countersnipe really well and get the headshots I need to. This leads me to ask, who do I focus down first- medis, pyro, engies, or what?
A bad sniper, however, is probably the most useless class in the game. I'm speaking as an average sniper, mind you. Bad snipers easily waste 2-3 spots on your team - I've seen teams with as many as 5 bad snipers at once. The sniper's #1 target is to remove the opposing team's snipers first, then heavy/medics, etc. When you have low-skill snipers, they aren't even able to counter-snipe, which means free pickings for the opposing snipers. Good luck getting that heavy to the front line.
I've been playing sniper, and I can countersnipe really well and get the headshots I need to. This leads me to ask, who do I focus down first- medis, pyro, engies, or what?
Medics and if you can see an engie at his sentry whom you can headshot, then him. Then everything else you can see.
A bad sniper, however, is probably the most useless class in the game. I'm speaking as an average sniper, mind you. Bad snipers easily waste 2-3 spots on your team - I've seen teams with as many as 5 bad snipers at once. The sniper's #1 target is to remove the opposing team's snipers first, then heavy/medics, etc. When you have low-skill snipers, they aren't even able to counter-snipe, which means free pickings for the opposing snipers. Good luck getting that heavy to the front line.
I've been playing sniper, and I can countersnipe really well and get the headshots I need to. This leads me to ask, who do I focus down first- medis, pyro, engies, or what?
Kill Medics first. Then kill good enemy snipers if any are immediate threats. Then start killing the slower, high-HP classes.
Just don't play Sniper if there are already a couple snipers on your team...even if those snipers are terrible. Seen way too many games lost because too many people think that they're better snipers or spies than all those other idiots down on the scoreboard...
Wish there was a plugin that limited the maximum number of Snipers to the number of Medics currently on the team. Two birds with one stone.
A bad sniper, however, is probably the most useless class in the game. I'm speaking as an average sniper, mind you. Bad snipers easily waste 2-3 spots on your team - I've seen teams with as many as 5 bad snipers at once. The sniper's #1 target is to remove the opposing team's snipers first, then heavy/medics, etc. When you have low-skill snipers, they aren't even able to counter-snipe, which means free pickings for the opposing snipers. Good luck getting that heavy to the front line.
I've been playing sniper, and I can countersnipe really well and get the headshots I need to. This leads me to ask, who do I focus down first- medis, pyro, engies, or what?
Kill Medics first. Then kill good enemy snipers if any are immediate threats. Then start killing the slower, high-HP classes.
Just don't play Sniper if there are already a couple snipers on your team...even if those snipers are terrible. Seen way too many games lost because too many people think that they're better snipers or spies than all those other idiots down on the scoreboard...
Wish there was a plugin that limited the maximum number of Snipers to the number of Medics currently on the team. Two birds with one stone.
Some servers have class limits. I.e. 2-max each of engi's and snipers. There is a alot of variance between servers (skill-level, admins, troll tolerance, etc.). For newbies, I'd definitely some time trying out alot of servers before you settle on a home.
On June 29 2011 03:42 mav451 wrote: Some servers have class limits. I.e. 2-max each of engi's and snipers. There is a alot of variance between servers (skill-level, admins, troll tolerance, etc.). For newbies, I'd definitely some time trying out alot of servers before you settle on a home.
I play on Lion's Den most of the time, and I'm fairly certain they have a class limiter (their auto-balance is terrible, but that's another story). However, I've yet to see a server with a class limiter that varies depending on the current team composition.
For example, it's still possible to get 2 Snipers and no Medics with a normal class limiter plugin, even if the teams only have eight players.
Team fortress 2 is a solid game. But once you hit higher levels of play it falls flat. half the classes are not viable, spy and pyro being the worse off. With engineers and snipers falling behind that. Without class restriction, on a normal 5 CP map with 8 players on each team, it would be only demomen and medics.
The game breaks at higher player counts, as well as only 4 of 9 classes being technically demanding( scout, sniper, soldier, demoman ) this leaves other classes to fall on the wayside.
On June 29 2011 03:09 mav451 wrote:Being a medic is a sacrifice that won't get you frags, but if your team does not have med/heavy combos, it is almost impossible to cap or push good teams. You may be able to scam a few with spies/scouts, if the opponents are poor, but for solid play you need medic/heavies.
I wouldn't say close to impossible... solider/demoman can replace the heavy fairly well. Yeah, it usually works much better with one good heavy, but I think it's more a matter of the skill of the person than the class itself. Although heavy, solider, and demoman usually do best under slightly different circumstances.
I agree with the general idea of your post though. Engineers are not that great. Usually it is easy enough to blow up their stuff as a demoman if you're smart about it, even without an uber, unless your team has been doing very poorly and they've had a lot of time to setup.
In general, I find myself switching to whatever class is needed the most. 60-70% of the time that is demoman, because it seems like there are very few demomen that aren't using a shield/sword combo, and those that aren't don't necessarily have any idea how to blow up sentries effectively. Heavy and medic probably take up 25% of my time combined.
The one class there is always way too many of is snipers. The only time I feel the need to be one is when all 4-5 of the current snipers can't kill enemy snipers at all, or there's 10 or so heavies on the other team.
Also, whoever called heavies a low skill ceiling class is pretty far off. Heavies do a ton of damage, but if you aren't smart about it, there are so many ways to die. A backstab, a headshot from a sniper, demomen/soldiers, etc. How and when you choose to spinup is a pretty big deal, and when to stop spinning is too. Surviving as a heavy for a long time and inflicting a lot of damage is a pretty subtle thing that I very rarely see people doing well. Although the Tomislav might have changed that a bit.
I dont understand the sniping "charge" function. I couldnt kill anything at all when I just quickscope like i do in soldierfront, but now I just walk around with the scope on pretty much and i headshot everything. It's easy, but a really stupid way to play imo.
On June 29 2011 05:19 Soulish wrote: I dont understand the sniping "charge" function. I couldnt kill anything at all when I just quickscope like i do in soldierfront, but now I just walk around with the scope on pretty much and i headshot everything. It's easy, but a really stupid way to play imo.
If by quickscope you mean zoom in and instantly click, they patched that out long time ago.
You have to wait like 100 ms or something and then shoot.
On June 29 2011 05:19 Soulish wrote: I dont understand the sniping "charge" function. I couldnt kill anything at all when I just quickscope like i do in soldierfront, but now I just walk around with the scope on pretty much and i headshot everything. It's easy, but a really stupid way to play imo.
The entire point of the sniper rifle's charge is to prevent all of the good players from exclusively playing Sniper and insta-killing everyone they meet at any range. The good folks at Valve know that reliable and instantaneous one-shot kills do not engender fun gameplay for the vast majority of players.
On June 29 2011 05:19 Soulish wrote: I dont understand the sniping "charge" function. I couldnt kill anything at all when I just quickscope like i do in soldierfront, but now I just walk around with the scope on pretty much and i headshot everything. It's easy, but a really stupid way to play imo.
The entire point of the sniper rifle's charge is to prevent all of the good players from exclusively playing Sniper and insta-killing everyone they meet at any range. The good folks at Valve know that reliable and instantaneous one-shot kills do not engender fun gameplay for the vast majority of players.
That was annoying, yes. But it wasn't to fix the good players insta-gibbing everyone. It fixed the legions of terrible snipers taking kills they really didn't deserve.
On June 29 2011 05:19 Soulish wrote: I dont understand the sniping "charge" function. I couldnt kill anything at all when I just quickscope like i do in soldierfront, but now I just walk around with the scope on pretty much and i headshot everything. It's easy, but a really stupid way to play imo.
The entire point of the sniper rifle's charge is to prevent all of the good players from exclusively playing Sniper and insta-killing everyone they meet at any range. The good folks at Valve know that reliable and instantaneous one-shot kills do not engender fun gameplay for the vast majority of players.
And yet now we have demo knights that lop off your head and you die instantly. Plus the array of other weapons that move the gameplay to almost exclusively one and two shot kills.
I played this last night and there was a guy with a fucking sword and shield one shotting practically everybody. Every time I saw him, he would charge like a sc2 zealot and slaughter me in one hit. Granted I'm pretty terrible, but wtf was that because it seemed pretty ridiculous.
On June 29 2011 05:19 Soulish wrote: I dont understand the sniping "charge" function. I couldnt kill anything at all when I just quickscope like i do in soldierfront, but now I just walk around with the scope on pretty much and i headshot everything. It's easy, but a really stupid way to play imo.
The entire point of the sniper rifle's charge is to prevent all of the good players from exclusively playing Sniper and insta-killing everyone they meet at any range. The good folks at Valve know that reliable and instantaneous one-shot kills do not engender fun gameplay for the vast majority of players.
That doesn't happen in any fps game where snipers can 1 shot kill no matter how competitive. take a look at cs for example.
i love this game and its more fun now with the new players. demo man/medic has never been more fun. if anyone wants some Mann co. crates send me a PM you will need to buy the keys from valve for $2.50 each.
Anyone who wants to get good at this game, play on mge training servers. It's basically a lot of small 1v1 scenarios from Valve maps and game types. So the Badlands spire is there, first to 20 frags wins. Also, bball, which is almost my favourite part of Team Fortress 2. Airshots (one of the most satisfying types of kills) await.
Also, I've been around with this game for a while, argue something you don't like and I'll explain why you're wrong
On June 29 2011 13:47 Shrub wrote: And yet now we have demo knights that lop off your head and you die instantly. Plus the array of other weapons that move the gameplay to almost exclusively one and two shot kills.
Almost every weapon in the game that can "one-shot" is a melee weapon. No non-sniper weapon can one-shot a heavy, with the exception of the Caber+Targe...once.
The one exception outside of the Sniper class is the Direct Hit, which can one-shot a 125-HP class at melee range.
I really don't know why you're counting two-shot kills.
On June 29 2011 14:13 proot wrote: I played this last night and there was a guy with a fucking sword and shield one shotting practically everybody. Every time I saw him, he would charge like a sc2 zealot and slaughter me in one hit. Granted I'm pretty terrible, but wtf was that because it seemed pretty ridiculous.
These guys are straightforward once you learn how to juggle them. Which can be done with any explosive weapon or flamethrower. So much for Soldiers, Demomen, and Pyros.
Juggling with the rocket launchers involves aiming at his feet, blasting him into the air, and blowing him away with the shotgun before he hits the ground. Juggling with the pipebomb launcher involves hitting the charging demoman directly, then air-piping him (or strafing away or onto higher ground). Juggling with the Pyro just involve airblasting him, setting him on fire, then hitting him with the Axetinguisher or shotgun or flare. Or just blowing him off a convenient ledge. It's impossible to juggle with either Sticky launcher, but you can ruin his charge if you have bombs down ahead of time.
Scouts should just avoid getting into close range, or weapon heckle them at extreme close range (between the zone where they can melee you, and where charge deals crit damage).
Heavies should have no problems against Demoknights whatsoever.
-Medics and Engineers without a Sentry Gun should pray for a competent team. Apart from that, chargers can be minimized by using other teammates as meatshields or standing on a slight ledge (you can't jump while charging). Learning how to melee helps a lot in this matchup (which is actually fairly even if you can keep him from charging, most notably by standing right next to him).
Spy/Sniper v. Demoknight...well, quite frankly, Sniper v. Demoknight shouldn't happen, and Spy v. Demoknight really depends on who jumps who first.
Probably the biggest thing about fighting Demoknights, with any class, is avoiding flat, nonbroken terrain. Abusing the terrain, if possible, is pretty much a free win versus Demoknight melee.
On June 29 2011 17:07 acker wrote: These guys are straightforward once you learn how to juggle them. Which can be done with any explosive weapon or flamethrower. So much for Soldiers, Demomen, and Pyros.
Juggling with the rocket launchers involves aiming at his feet, blasting him into the air, and blowing him away with the shotgun before he hits the ground. Juggling with the pipebomb launcher involves hitting the charging demoman directly, then air-piping him (or strafing away or onto higher ground). Juggling with the Pyro just involve airblasting him, setting him on fire, then hitting him with the Axetinguisher or shotgun or flare. Or just blowing him off a convenient ledge. It's impossible to juggle with either Sticky launcher, but you can ruin his charge if you have bombs down ahead of time.
Scouts should just avoid getting into close range, or weapon heckle them at extreme close range (between the zone where they can melee you, and where charge deals crit damage).
Heavies should have no problems against Demoknights whatsoever.
-Medics and Engineers without a Sentry Gun should pray for a competent team. Apart from that, chargers can be minimized by using other teammates as meatshields or standing on a slight ledge (you can't jump while charging). Learning how to melee helps a lot in this matchup (which is actually fairly even if you can keep him from charging, most notably by standing right next to him).
Spy/Sniper v. Demoknight...well, quite frankly, Sniper v. Demoknight shouldn't happen, and Spy v. Demoknight really depends on who jumps who first.
Probably the biggest thing about fighting Demoknights, with any class, is avoiding flat, nonbroken terrain. Abusing the terrain, if possible, is pretty much a free win versus Demoknight melee.
We need more posts like this. I find it hard as a new player to find the basic knowledge (TF2 wiki didn't help a lot)
I'm getting a bit better, I don't play sniper/spy (there are too many of them and they are not that fun) My soldier is my worst (maybe my scout), any tips? How can I use my launcher on long range, because it seems to me my opponents have way too long to change direction.
Got this 2 days ago, Loving it so far i mostly play Sniper/Spy unlocked a Hunters Bow for my Sniper guy which is always fun. The best feeling is when you get 3 - 5 chain backstabs on people as a spy !
I'm getting a bit better, I don't play sniper/spy (there are too many of them and they are not that fun) My soldier is my worst (maybe my scout), any tips? How can I use my launcher on long range, because it seems to me my opponents have way too long to change direction.
Dealing damage at long range with the Rocket Launcher isn't something to rely on. Rocket Launchers have a ton of damage ramp-up and fall-off; at long range, you'll deal maybe 45 damage per direct hit, which is pretty much free uber for the enemy Medic unless you're spamming a corridor with the help of other explosive spam classes. Or hitting a huge group. Or blowing a Kritzkrieg.
I guess if you want to use one at long range, use the Liberty Launcher for bonus speed and aim for mobs (I don't have a Liberty Launcher, so I'm just guessing on this part, I use the normal RL or the Black Box). Or just empty the entire magazine in a spread pattern where the enemy is most likely to go. Or spam a choke. Don't expect to hit any particular enemy unless it's a Heavy or Sniper or someone who simply doesn't notice you.
Sometimes you can get lucky and spot an enemy heading for a health pack location or something else that's equally important (like, for instance, a suspicious friendly Pyro [aka: idiot enemy Spy] heading directly for another friendly Heavy's back). In these cases, just assume they'll run in a straight line and take a best guess.
The only other targets to semi-seriously engage at long range are Engineer buildings, since damage fall-off doesn't apply to them.
Most of the time, you want to use the Rocket Launcher at medium and short range, where it deals around 80-100+ damage per shot. (yeah, in TF2, Rocket Launchers are short-range weapons) Guessing where the enemy will end up is much easier at this range. Long-range fighting is generally accomplished by Rocket Jumping to a position above the enemy, where short range combat then takes precedent.
Most importantly, almost all combat at all ranges with the Rocket Launcher should be done from a position that's elevated above your target. This makes hitting your target relatively easy (you can just splash the enemy to death), and makes hitting you relatively difficult (the enemy has to hit you directly).
If you want to spam explosives at long range, use Demo pipe bombs, which deal over 100 damage at long range and suffer from no damage fall-off at range. Of course, they don't explode on impact and roll funny...meh.
Go valve, I've always been amazed at just how much support and additional content they've given tf2 since its relase. Not to mention since f2p the feeling of 'wow I'm doing so much better than before, oh wait it's cause there's a lot of newbies meh still fun.' .
To Wesso, don't engage in long range fights as a soldier (there's a reason those rockets are slow, it'd be seriously op otherwise) other than spamming a few rockets before ducking into cover. You really need to use cover as soldier (to reload since it takes ages) and be able to close the distance to a medium-short range when you fight. I'm surprised soldier is your worst class given it's one of the easiest if not easiest class to use. Just avoid fighting at long range if you can, use cover and you should have an easier time
I'm getting a bit better, I don't play sniper/spy (there are too many of them and they are not that fun) My soldier is my worst (maybe my scout), any tips? How can I use my launcher on long range, because it seems to me my opponents have way too long to change direction.
Dealing damage at long range with the Rocket Launcher isn't something to rely on. Rocket Launchers have a ton of damage ramp-up and fall-off; at long range, you'll deal maybe 45 damage per direct hit, which is pretty much free uber for the enemy Medic unless you're spamming a corridor with the help of other explosive spam classes. Or hitting a huge group. Or blowing a Kritzkrieg.
I guess if you want to use one at long range, use the Liberty Launcher for bonus speed and aim for mobs (I don't have a Liberty Launcher, so I'm just guessing on this part, I use the normal RL or the Black Box). Or just empty the entire magazine in a spread pattern where the enemy is most likely to go. Or spam a choke. Don't expect to hit any particular enemy unless it's a Heavy or Sniper or someone who simply doesn't notice you.
Sometimes you can get lucky and spot an enemy heading for a health pack location or something else that's equally important (like, for instance, a suspicious friendly Pyro [aka: idiot enemy Spy] heading directly for another friendly Heavy's back). In these cases, just assume they'll run in a straight line and take a best guess.
The only other targets to semi-seriously engage at long range are Engineer buildings, since damage fall-off doesn't apply to them.
Most of the time, you want to use the Rocket Launcher at medium and short range, where it deals around 80-100+ damage per shot. (yeah, in TF2, Rocket Launchers are short-range weapons) Guessing where the enemy will end up is much easier at this range. Long-range fighting is generally accomplished by Rocket Jumping to a position above the enemy, where short range combat then takes precedent.
Most importantly, almost all combat at all ranges with the Rocket Launcher should be done from a position that's elevated above your target. This makes hitting your target relatively easy (you can just splash the enemy to death), and makes hitting you relatively difficult (the enemy has to hit you directly).
If you want to spam explosives at long range, use Demo pipe bombs, which deal over 100 damage at long range and suffer from no damage fall-off at range. Of course, they don't explode on impact and roll funny...meh.
Thanks! This is just what I needed, now I at least know what I'm supposed to do. That makes learning much faster. I mean how is it supposed to be obvious that a rocket launcher is a short/mid range weapon (especially since you get hit by your own explosions on if you are too close)
On June 29 2011 18:12 Renzin wrote: I'm surprised soldier is your worst class given it's one of the easiest if not easiest class to use. Just avoid fighting at long range if you can, use cover and you should have an easier time
Most likely it's because the other classes can noob abuse easier, without actually being good (they can't hit scouts, they don't know what to do against pyro, let's not even start about engineer,spy and heavy/medic)
I'm getting a bit better, I don't play sniper/spy (there are too many of them and they are not that fun) My soldier is my worst (maybe my scout), any tips? How can I use my launcher on long range, because it seems to me my opponents have way too long to change direction.
Dealing damage at long range with the Rocket Launcher isn't something to rely on. Rocket Launchers have a ton of damage ramp-up and fall-off; at long range, you'll deal maybe 45 damage per direct hit, which is pretty much free uber for the enemy Medic unless you're spamming a corridor with the help of other explosive spam classes. Or hitting a huge group. Or blowing a Kritzkrieg.
I guess if you want to use one at long range, use the Liberty Launcher for bonus speed and aim for mobs (I don't have a Liberty Launcher, so I'm just guessing on this part, I use the normal RL or the Black Box). Or just empty the entire magazine in a spread pattern where the enemy is most likely to go. Or spam a choke. Don't expect to hit any particular enemy unless it's a Heavy or Sniper or someone who simply doesn't notice you.
Sometimes you can get lucky and spot an enemy heading for a health pack location or something else that's equally important (like, for instance, a suspicious friendly Pyro [aka: idiot enemy Spy] heading directly for another friendly Heavy's back). In these cases, just assume they'll run in a straight line and take a best guess.
The only other targets to semi-seriously engage at long range are Engineer buildings, since damage fall-off doesn't apply to them.
Most of the time, you want to use the Rocket Launcher at medium and short range, where it deals around 80-100+ damage per shot. (yeah, in TF2, Rocket Launchers are short-range weapons) Guessing where the enemy will end up is much easier at this range. Long-range fighting is generally accomplished by Rocket Jumping to a position above the enemy, where short range combat then takes precedent.
Most importantly, almost all combat at all ranges with the Rocket Launcher should be done from a position that's elevated above your target. This makes hitting your target relatively easy (you can just splash the enemy to death), and makes hitting you relatively difficult (the enemy has to hit you directly).
If you want to spam explosives at long range, use Demo pipe bombs, which deal over 100 damage at long range and suffer from no damage fall-off at range. Of course, they don't explode on impact and roll funny...meh.
Thanks! This is just what I needed, now I at least know what I'm supposed to do. That makes learning much faster. I mean how is it supposed to be obvious that a rocket launcher is a short/mid range weapon
In duel shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament, rocket launchers are used for kills at a close-mid range. At longer ranges, you used the rocket launcher to zone your enemy out of pickups and such. TF is pretty much built on the foundation of Quake, a lot of Quake duelists find themselves comfortable at competitive play.
Pffft screw the skill conversation. Can you light 5 people on fire in CS/COD/Quake/etc. and watch them run away in fear as you chase after them? No. <3 TF2, the Most fun FPS I have ever played.
dam.. does the medic is supposed to finish with high score? it's the second time I played medic.. was on dustbowl and I finished with liek +60 points then anyone O.o
Medic seem OP for making mass points lol :D
Will try to go HW tonight and see if I can go on rampage just like I did with soldier last time !
On June 24 2011 10:54 Marou wrote: I am so sad they didnt made a mac client for this game, i loved team fortress classic back in the days...conc jump all the way
Having played this casually since a months or two after the orange box release, i have some basic tips for some of the classes:
Heavy: Playing heavy is all about getting in your opponents face, in such a way that he cannot escape, you have a huge damage output and will slaughter any class point blank with your minigun in a second or two, your main way of killing should be jumping from a corner, spinning in mid-air, and appearing in the face of the opponent to mow him down, however the heavy class works in such a way that you will always take damage from the opponent as you kill him, so you will need to grab health a lot, eat your sandvich or have a medic with you.
Your biggest problem as an inexperienced heavy will be spies, demomen and soldiers, as long as you don't stand in open areas (Run through open areas, do never attack an opponent at long or mid range, unless they cannot escape in mid-range, or you are ubercharged), snipers won't be a problem, you will evolve a sense of knowing when people act suspicious as spies, and will stand in safe corners or look behind you a lot.
Pyro: As pyro your job is either to cause chaos by suiciding into a room full of people, or to run around solo and flanking opponents, with the addition of the airblast some time ago, you will be at a fairly good position against soldiers, even if you meet up with them directly, as then cannot fire their rockets directly at you without risking you airblasting it back in their face, pyros should avoid the big spammy areas, and try to get behind enemy lines, much like the spy, except that you are better off in a 1v1 fight against most classes.
A common tactic when fighting an oppoent is putting him on fire, airblasting him into a corner, and either shooting him with the shotgun or killing him with the axetinquisher, you should be aware than you are in no position to take on sentry guns, even with ubercharge the knockback will make you unable to do much, unless he has placed it so you can shoot it from a corner without it shooting back, you should also be aware that any decent heavy will destroy you in every situation, unless he is looking the other way without having his minigun spun, and you jump him with your flamethrower and quickly finish him with the axetinquisher, decent scouts will cause you a lot of trouble as well.
Sniper: Sniper is fairly simple, you stand somewhere high and safe and shoot people in the head, however things are not always this simple, sometimes the safer bet is to stand or crouch somewhere people do not expect to find you, as a sniper you are a natural magnet to scouts, spies and other snipers, in close-mid range you are not much of a fight against anyone, and when you've fired off a shot, it matters little if you're behind enemy lines or crouched in a dark cornor nobody can see you in, so make it count.
For enemy snipers, they usualy stand still so a quick headshot is often preffered, and 125 health classes like Scout, sniper, spy and engineer will die from a headshot, no matter the charge, while a fully overhealed heavy will only die from a fully charged headshot, rarely should you stand scoped with full charge and wait for your opponent to appear, as you will be defenseless against anyone appearing from behind you while zoomed in, if someone gets close, you can either try to quick-scope with headshots, against scouts perhaps, or you can grab your smg or machete, although in most situations running for the nearest teammember might be a better idea.
On June 29 2011 21:41 Keitzer wrote: i heard it's full of kiddies now... confirm/deny.
Not completely, but most of the time I heard someones voice talking, it sounds like they are like 12 years old and their balls have yet to drop, rather annoying.
So far I have been having fun, just sucks when I get a bunch of afk people. So far I just stick to classes like scout, soldier, sniper etc. I get bored if I am not trying to kill someone :S
On June 29 2011 14:39 Dr. ROCKZO wrote: Anyone who wants to get good at this game, play on mge training servers. It's basically a lot of small 1v1 scenarios from Valve maps and game types. So the Badlands spire is there, first to 20 frags wins. Also, bball, which is almost my favourite part of Team Fortress 2. Airshots (one of the most satisfying types of kills) await.
Also, I've been around with this game for a while, argue something you don't like and I'll explain why you're wrong
I don't like the fact that the game is broken without class limits, otherwise it would just be a medic demoman fest? am I wrong, cause last time i checked, the game was really bad because to make the game actually deep and fun, the community had to limit most classes to 2 or 1 so people could actually push.
On public servers, class limits are usually not to keep games from being too hard to win because your team is too good, it's more often to keep games from being entirely pointless because everyone on your team is going sniper or spy (and terrible at it). Those people usually end up contributing very little to your team's progress and just do their own thing, whether it works or not.
Pubs that I've been on usually limit spy/sniper first, and less frequently limit demo/medic/heavy/soldier. Spy and sniper can be very valuable support classes, but with more than 2 or so on your team (especially if played by casual people) they're dead weight. Snipers because they often do very little to help advance your push, and they rely on heavier classes to keep enemies busy, and spies because, well, once the other team expects them, they're very hard to play effectively.
On these servers the problem isn't so much the game rather than the people playing it. I don't play competitive TF2 so I don't know what limits are used there (and for which reasons).
-1 Medic hardcap -1 Demo hardcap -only 2 of any other class.
...which makes the competitive lineup 1 Medic, 1 Demo, 2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers. There's also a weapons ban that differs depending on which competitive league you're talking about.
Competitive Highlander is 1 of every class (though it's much less popular).
On June 29 2011 14:39 Dr. ROCKZO wrote: Anyone who wants to get good at this game, play on mge training servers. It's basically a lot of small 1v1 scenarios from Valve maps and game types. So the Badlands spire is there, first to 20 frags wins. Also, bball, which is almost my favourite part of Team Fortress 2. Airshots (one of the most satisfying types of kills) await.
Also, I've been around with this game for a while, argue something you don't like and I'll explain why you're wrong
I don't like the fact that the game is broken without class limits, otherwise it would just be a medic demoman fest? am I wrong, cause last time i checked, the game was really bad because to make the game actually deep and fun, the community had to limit most classes to 2 or 1 so people could actually push.
Demoman/medic alone is never optimal. It is good to have 2-3 demomen and 2 medics, but anything beyond that isn't especially helpful. Demomen can not spy check especially easily, since none of the weapons are hitscan. If a spy gets past everyone and gets close to a demoman, it becomes very difficult to kill them especially if they have a dead ringer (while pyros have no problems whatsoever). While demomen are better equipped to take out snipers than most classes (with a nice mix of speed/range), if there's even one good sniper and no other snipers to occupy his attention, he's going to make it difficult unless the map does not have any good sniping locations. Demos also can drain their ammo really quickly (ie, if a heavy suddenly starting raining down bullets on everyone, you have to unload everything to kill him as quickly as possible), so I find a lot of my time is spent reloading. Not a big deal if there are other classes to support you (like the heavy or pyro), but if everyone is a demoman and dealing with the same threats, chances are greater that no one has any ammo in their guns at the same time.
Hitting targets consistently, especially fast ones, as a demoman is not easy- soldiers are a lot better than that, as are heavies and sentry guns. And while demos are good at defending, it is easy to screw up or run out of ammo at a bad time, something a sentry gun doesn't have issues with.
In summary, a demoman can do a lot of different things pretty well, but there are a lot little subtle weaknesses to the class. They can largely be overcome with skill, but if an entire team were demomen/medics, it probably wouldn't do too well (assuming both teams are similar in skill level).
On June 29 2011 22:19 Bagonad wrote:Pyro: As pyro your job is either to cause chaos by suiciding into a room full of people, or to run around solo and flanking opponents,
This is simply not true. If you're suiciding into a group of people as pyro these days, you're not playing the class correctly. There's too many ways to put out fire for this to be worthwhile, not to mention I think they toned down the length of the afterburn a long time ago. This hasn't been viable since the pyro patch back when the backburner of doom was still around, and it especially hasn't been good since they made the damage ramp up as you get closer to someone lower (with a flamethrower).
Also, you managed to give a bunch of advice while missing the one true purpose of a pyro: SPY CHECK. In a narrow corridor? Do a quick burst and sweep to make sure there are no spies. Next to a suspicious teammate? See if they light on fire. At a sentry? Light the surrounding area on fire (and use airblast to keep stickies/rockets away from the sentry).
Second thing pyros are really good at doing: breaking up ubercharges so they don't do any damage. Use air blast on the damager continuously. They'll bounce around and be completely unable to aim (unless they're an insanely good/lucky demoman- they might blow up a single sentry, but they'll be unubered by the time it is over, instead of having half of it left).
Pyros main role these days is to play more defensively and spycheck everything, abuse airblast, and to use the flare gun to light everyone on fire from a distance. If you have a degreaser and an axtinguisher, you can be a little more offensive, but it isn't nearly as useful as making sure there aren't any spies around and keeping sentries alive as long as possible.
Demoman/medic alone is never optimal. It is good to have 2-3 demomen and 2 medics, but anything beyond that isn't especially helpful.
Pure Demo/Medic is the strongest composition in the game (barring some weird map that's perfectly flat with no obstacles), simply because demo can output more spam than any other class in the game, for a longer period of time. Ammo is seldom a problem as long as you get a kill for every sixteen stickies or eight pipe bombs or both, which really isn't that difficult to do. And unlike soldiers, Demomen have an explosive weapon that can act like a proximity rocket half a second into flight, which makes them far more efficient against fast classes. Unless said fast classes get within the dead zone of the Demo. In which case more Demos are still better, for covering each other's dead zones.
Pipes deal more damage than rockets at almost all ranges and have no damage falloff. The Grenade Launcher also fires faster and throws faster projectiles.; a Demo who knows how to pipe is twice as dangerous as an equivalent soldier. I've never seen anyone complain of spies in a Demo/Medic team, simply because spies tend to vaporize to the spam on accident. Snipers tend to die hard to sticky bombs jumps and pipe spam (and, besides the obvious, have extreme difficulties capturing points), though they are probably the best counter in high-level play.
More importantly, Demos scale better than any other class as the number of players playing Demomen goes up. Probably because of some variant of Lancaster's Laws. There's a reason why Demo is the only other class in comp play that's limited to one, besides the Medic.
And, most importantly, the single best counter to a uber is not a Pyro, but your own uber. Medics are almost always more valuable than Pyros. Plus, Pyros can't heal Demomen or convert afterburn into free uber.
From my long time casual experience, aim capable scouts can deal with medics and demos prety easily. A roaming soldier too. Ive never seen a full medic/demo team, but I believe that a regular line up of scouts/soldier/demo/medic could hold them.
I always thought they limited demo count to one in competitive only because demoman can hold a chockepoint for a retardly long time, making the game prety much boring and spammy, not because they have so much pushing power that they could roll through any area.
On June 30 2011 04:26 Fitz wrote: From my long time casual experience, aim capable scouts can deal with medics and demos prety easily. A roaming soldier too. Ive never seen a full medic/demo team, but I believe that a regular line up of scouts/soldier/demo/medic could hold them.
I always thought they limited demo count to one in competitive only because demoman can hold a chockepoint for a retardly long time, making the game prety much boring and spammy, not because they have so much pushing power that they could roll through any area.
From my long time casual experience, the team that wins (barring super stacks) is the team with the most explosives, the most medics, and the fewest hitscan classes (especially the lighter-HP ones). Demo/Medic is the single toughest team config in the game, and it only gets tougher as the number of players increases.
Demoman is limited to one because he can output the most spam in the least amount of time and lock down entire areas and beat the crap out of...well, pretty much everybody except Scouts. And Scouts beat Demos in comp because there is only one Demo. If Demos weren't hardcapped to 1, it'd be 2 Demo/2 Soldier/1 Scouts/1 Medic (because the universal hardcap is 2).
If you never lose, you will always win. Demoes can cap better than soldiers, and hold points better than any other class in the game (yes, this includes the Engi at sufficiently high levels of skill due to the higher skill ceiling).
That said, I'm terrible at Demoman for various reasons, the most important one being that I can't pipe
I don't think so. There are far better synergies than just pure demomen/medic. For example, a soldier with a buff banner and a medic with a kritz- soldier gets a kritz to fill his buff banner, uses buff banner, by the time that is done, the kritz is almost refilled, etc. The range of this soldier is going to seriously wreck demomen in anything but the most closed map, and the buff banner amplifies the power of the rest of the team. I've seen combinations like this, and it rips the crap out of anything mass demoman can do if pulled off well.
I also think you're living in some fantasy land where the average demo's skill is sky high. All of what you say is true- if your demos are really good. Not everyone plays demoman like a god though. I also don't think spam is going to stop dead ringer spies, not even close. A pyro using airblast is going to cause issues, since he's essentially untouchable. Also, you're not going to be easily able to sticky jump to kill a single sniper behind his entire team on most maps and in most situations. It happens occasionally, but demos do not single handily neutralize snipers on their own.
I would agree with most of what you said if it were a single, isolated demoman with a medic, and the skill of the demoman and the medic are both high. But there's a really freaking big difference between small combat and team affairs that you don't seem to acknowledge.
I consider myself a pretty damn good demoman- if I play demo, I pretty routinely finish top 3 on my team, and am instrumental in blowing up sentries and getting my team to win (recent pub game I doubled the score of the closest person on my team, 54-27... the other team was pretty good too). But very, very rarely is there a demoman anywhere near comparable on my team or the other team. I've had teams that were close to pure demoman/medic and they generally did pretty poorly.
Stacking heavies is a heck of a lot easier in pubs- roll over everyone in close combat so badly that you can get in the face of snipers quickly. I've seen that work to pretty good effect on certain maps.
Tried it out. One thing I really dislike in this game is the maps. They're all tiny with very few chokes and very limited selection for every game type too. Only decent ones I've played so far are granary and train station(?). Rest of the maps so far are like 2-3 easily covered/spammed chokes. They should concentrate on making some more decent maps instead of releasing all these items.
On June 30 2011 05:04 zer0das wrote: I don't think so. There are far better synergies than just pure demomen/medic. For example, a soldier with a buff banner and a medic with a kritz- soldier gets a kritz to fill his buff banner, uses buff banner, by the time that is done, the kritz is almost refilled, etc. The range of this soldier is going to seriously wreck demomen in anything but the most closed map, and the buff banner amplifies the power of the rest of the team. I've seen combinations like this, and it rips the crap out of anything mass demoman can do if pulled off well.
I also think you're living in some fantasy land where the average demo's skill is sky high. All of what you say is true- if your demos are really good. Not everyone plays demoman like a god though. I also don't think spam is going to stop dead ringer spies, not even close. A pyro using airblast is going to cause issues, since he's essentially untouchable. Also, you're not going to be easily able to sticky jump to kill a single sniper behind his entire team on most maps and in most situations. It happens occasionally, but demos do not single handily neutralize snipers on their own.
I would agree with most of what you said if it were a single, isolated demoman with a medic, and the skill of the demoman and the medic are both high. But there's a really freaking big difference between small combat and team affairs that you don't seem to acknowledge.
I consider myself a pretty damn good demoman- if I play demo, I pretty routinely finish top 3 on my team, and am instrumental in blowing up sentries and getting my team to win (recent pub game I doubled the score of the closest person on my team, 54-27... the other team was pretty good too). But very, very rarely is there a demoman anywhere near comparable on my team or the other team. I've had teams that were close to pure demoman/medic and they generally did pretty poorly.
Stacking heavies is a heck of a lot easier in pubs- roll over everyone in close combat so badly that you can get in the face of snipers quickly. I've seen that work to pretty good effect on certain maps.
-I main Medic, and in my experience, a kritzed Demo is generally more dangerous than a Soldier+Kritz+Buff Banner. 12 critical shots in eight seconds without reloading, all of which deal more damage than a rocket...yeah. Vaporizing most of the enemy team is worth not having the minicrits.
-The average Demoman knows how to detonate a sticky bomb in mid-air and spam a choke. The average Sniper can't hit a head to save his life. The average spy dies horribly to Engineers, let alone Demomen. You want to talk about skill, I'll talk about skill. If you want to talk about "average"...to be frank, the "average" player is terrible.
Incidentally, the DR is good, but it has this really loud sound whenever someone decloaks somewhere in the same ballpark as you. Unless he's using the Saharan Spy set, in which case he'll be undisguised for a while. Uber food most of the time.
My experiences are completely different; Demo/Medic has, the majority of the time, been stronger the closer it reaches the ideal. Maybe we play different maps or game modes or something (I play mostly stock maps and a few of the more popular custom maps). I do agree that Heavy stacking is easier on most maps, though, if not as...well, efficient.
The counter to demo/medic is scouts but there are a lot of shitty maps that make it impossible to play scout (i.e flanking/shooting people in the back) with lots of choke points so demos have free reign and can do whatever they want
Demoman/medic alone is never optimal. It is good to have 2-3 demomen and 2 medics, but anything beyond that isn't especially helpful.
Pure Demo/Medic is the strongest composition in the game (barring some weird map that's perfectly flat with no obstacles), simply because demo can output more spam than any other class in the game, for a longer period of time. Ammo is seldom a problem as long as you get a kill for every sixteen stickies or eight pipe bombs or both, which really isn't that difficult to do. And unlike soldiers, Demomen have an explosive weapon that can act like a proximity rocket half a second into flight, which makes them far more efficient against fast classes. Unless said fast classes get within the dead zone of the Demo. In which case more Demos are still better, for covering each other's dead zones.
Pipes deal more damage than rockets at almost all ranges and have no damage falloff. The Grenade Launcher also fires faster and throws faster projectiles.; a Demo who knows how to pipe is twice as dangerous as an equivalent soldier. I've never seen anyone complain of spies in a Demo/Medic team, simply because spies tend to vaporize to the spam on accident. Snipers tend to die hard to sticky bombs jumps and pipe spam (and, besides the obvious, have extreme difficulties capturing points), though they are probably the best counter in high-level play.
More importantly, Demos scale better than any other class as the number of players playing Demomen goes up. Probably because of some variant of Lancaster's Laws. There's a reason why Demo is the only other class in comp play that's limited to one, besides the Medic.
And, most importantly, the single best counter to a uber is not a Pyro, but your own uber. Medics are almost always more valuable than Pyros. Plus, Pyros can't heal Demomen or convert afterburn into free uber.
The demo is not the end all answer to everything. His weapons are powerful but they come with a downside. The lack of a hitscan weapon means that the demo has no true reliable damage output when compared to a shotgun. You can always move away from bombs but you can't dodge a bullet. Then you also have to factor in how for most people, pipes are far harder to aim than rockets and that sticky bombs have an arm time before they can be detonated.
How you think demos counter snipers I don't understand. The demo isn't a god that can lay down fire everywhere. The sniper will beat the demo unless the demo is in an extremely favorable position. There is also the fact of scouts usually eating demos alive in a 1v1 if they are equal in skill. The demo is an incredibly powerful class when used right, but he will never be the end all answer.
Pyros can counter ubers if they have a brain and still use the old flamethrower.
On June 29 2011 21:41 Keitzer wrote: i heard it's full of kiddies now... confirm/deny.
There always was.
There is even more of them now.
I am seeing snipers using SMG as their main weapon, or quickscoping.
All of my hate.
Quick scoping was always the way good snipers played. Two fast 150 headshots is far better for damage output and your own safety than charging up to 450 once.
In my experience, soldiers are more durable, and the instant a crit rocket is fired, it is going to hit something. There is a "windup time" between when the demoman fires the crit, and when it is detonated. It's a lot easier to blow up a demoman/medic pair than a soldier/medic pair, especially since demomen are almost always moving forward when firing (I suppose a soldier is usually doing this too, but there's less advantage to it). Completely neutralizes the threat.
Neither average or skilled is representative. In reality, there's a gradient of player skills, and most people are best at one or two classes. I'm guessing the best class of 70% of the playerbase is not demoman (if not more). How useful is the average engineer vs the average demoman? I'd say the engineer compares pretty well, because you really don't have to know much about the class other than where to setup shop. Ditto for medic- it takes a special someone to be completely useless as medic. Point being, its pretty improbable the average skill level a class of pure demoman is as high as you're making it sound. And I kind of doubt the average demoman knows how to effectively guard an area, as easy as that should be. Spamming pipes, I can buy that. Maps that reward that are pretty dumb though (dustbowl 3 is probably among the worst as far as this goes). I have to switch to demo from heavy or medic fairly often because the demos on my team don't know how to guard a cart worth beans (which you would expect to be a mind numbingly easy task, but apparently not).
At any rate, I guess it's a difference in opinion. Maybe we should play some games together and see if either's opinion is swayed.
Factoring in crits for any form of damage output is stupid. Crits are a bad aspect of that game that should be eliminated on all levels, along with random damage and shotgun spread but that's just me. They only serve a purpose for sniper headshots and backstabs. Hell stabs work better with crits disabled. If you're taking getting kritzed, that is a different story. As for maps, gold rush and dust bowl suck. It is obvious why they are bad maps but the community still likes them. 5cp maps and attack/defend maps in the style of gravel pit are just better designed and don't force teams though uphill choke points that can be spammed constantly.
I agree with zer0das on the demoman argument. The reason why it seems like the demoman is OP is because most pubs are filled with mindless spammers and snipers/spies who don't know what they're doing. If you're playing in a server with 30-32 people and everyone's just spamming, the demoman is definitely going to seem strong because players tend to be more clumped together, and with so many people and little teamwork, the demoman's spamming will definitely clean shit up.
When you're playing in smaller servers with people who play more strategically instead of blindly spamming critical points, the disadvantages of the demoman mentioned so far become really apparent, namely that they're horrible against spies, snipers and pyros, and have a long-ass reload time.
edit: btw, is there a TL tf2 server? This thread seems to be getting just as much attention as the cs:s thread and they have two servers up apparently.
edit: btw, is there a TL tf2 server? This thread seems to be getting just as much attention as the cs:s thread and they have two servers up apparently.
I've considered purchasing a server before, so I may take this initiative. 24 players, stock maps maybe a few things here and there.
edit: btw, is there a TL tf2 server? This thread seems to be getting just as much attention as the cs:s thread and they have two servers up apparently.
I've considered purchasing a server before, so I may take this initiative. 24 players, stock maps maybe a few things here and there.
If you'll host 5CP maps def count me in, no random crit is prety sweet too.
edit: btw, is there a TL tf2 server? This thread seems to be getting just as much attention as the cs:s thread and they have two servers up apparently.
I've considered purchasing a server before, so I may take this initiative. 24 players, stock maps maybe a few things here and there.
If you'll host 5CP maps def count me in, no random crit is prety sweet too.
I'm not sure I'm a fan of no crits. I play huntsman sniper/spy mostly so it would do nothing but help me. However, I enjoy the random and casual aspect of the game. I like to take my TF2 with a dose of relaxation.
edit: I'm taking this into my hands. If you have suggestions for the server, feel free to PM me. I will get this setup within the next 48 hours or so. I will keep you updated.
Bullshit does not a good game make. Turning off crits, random damage, and random shotgun spread doesn't mean you're playing a hardcore game. You can play the game as casual as you want but they are not good game mechanics.
On June 30 2011 09:59 Shrub wrote: Bullshit does not a good game make. Turning off crits, random damage, and random shotgun spread doesn't mean you're playing a hardcore game. You can play the game as casual as you want but they are not good game mechanics.
Calm down there Yoda. The game is supposed to be fun. I believe that crits add more fun for me than they take away. Your opinion may be different, so feel free to start up your own server.
What shrub said, I can understand how those mechanics can be fun (mostly when you're the one landing that clutch crocket). But when you slowly prepare a push with your medic and suddenly, a mid-long range heavy (apparently harmless) pop those crits, rip you and the uber-ready medic to shreds, you'll feel worse than loosing your nat to a double raxs&bunkers push.
Edit: in the end you're the one paying, and I'll have fun either way (see upper post) just want to show you how sometimes they're unfun/etc.
On June 30 2011 10:09 Fitz wrote: What shrub said, I can understand how those mechanics can be fun (mostly when you're the one landing that clutch crocket). But when you slowly prepare a push with your medic and suddenly, a mid-long range heavy (apparently harmless) pop those crits, rip you and the uber-ready medic to shreds, you'll feel worse than loosing your nat to a double raxs&bunkers push.
Edit: in the end you're the one paying, and I'll have fun either way (see upper post) just want to show you how sometimes they're unfun/etc.
Those distinct moments of frustration and jubilation have kept me coming back to TF2 for years. Just my opinion. I play the game at a pretty high level and I've never felt that the presence of crits has taken away from my ability to out-skill other players.
edit: I am open to the idea. If people on TL overwhelming want a no-crit server then I may oblige. I just personally enjoy having it in the game for the occasional laugh
On June 30 2011 09:59 Cyberspace1 wrote: I remember when crits were based on how many previous kills you had...the good ol' days.
Isn't that still the case? You get more crits the better you're doing better?
On June 30 2011 10:05 Stoids wrote: Calm down there Yoda. The game is supposed to be fun. I believe that crits add more fun for me than they take away. Your opinion may be different, so feel free to start up your own server.
Not to be a dick, but I can't imagine how anyone who's been playing the game for a while would think crits improve their experience. When I get a random crit I feel guilty and when I get critted I get infuriated. Can you explain why you feel this way?
On June 30 2011 10:09 Fitz wrote: What shrub said, I can understand how those mechanics can be fun (mostly when you're the one landing that clutch crocket). But when you slowly prepare a push with your medic and suddenly, a mid-long range heavy (apparently harmless) pop those crits, rip you and the uber-ready medic to shreds, you'll feel worse than loosing your nat to a double raxs&bunkers push.
Edit: in the end you're the one paying, and I'll have fun either way (see upper post) just want to show you how sometimes they're unfun/etc.
Those distinct moments of frustration and jubilation have kept me coming back to TF2 for years. Just my opinion. I play the game at a pretty high level and I've never felt that the presence of crits has taken away from my ability to out-skill other players.
I have to ask, what high level group would keep crits on with how the game has progressed.
Trying to come to conclusions about competitive aspects of the game from casual play on pub servers is like trying to come to conclusions about competitive aspects of starcraft from playing BGH. Just stop.
Not to be a dick, but I can't imagine how anyone who's been playing the game for a while would feel this way. When I get a random crit I feel guilty and when I get critted I get infuriated. Can you explain why you feel this way?
I don't know why you would feel guilty about a random % chance occurrence in a game. It is not like you are consciously making the decision to get an easy kill. It is not the "cheesing of TF2," rather a part of the game. Your feeling of guilt is as perplexing to me as my feelings of joy are to you.
I have to ask, what high level group would keep crits on with how the game has progressed.
Even in competitive games there is random chance. However if this was a scrim/competitive server, I would completely agree with taking away random crits. At that point you are trying to illustrate who is the better group of players in an organized format. I don't feel like pubs in TF2 are meant to accomplish that.
I know there is random chance, but the point is to always eliminate as much of it as possible. The point I was and will continue to make is that having crits off doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden take the game seriously. They just are not a good mechanic. As for the feeling of joy, you did nothing to influence your chance of getting a crit. Wouldn't you feel better knowing that you outplayed that person? Wouldn't knowing that you did the work to outplay them, not an rng, make you feel more happy?
On June 30 2011 10:29 Shrub wrote: I know there is random chance, but the point is to always eliminate as much of it as possible. The point I was and will continue to make is that having crits off doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden take the game seriously. They just are not a good mechanic. As for the feeling of joy, you did nothing to influence your chance of getting a crit. Wouldn't you feel better knowing that you outplayed that person? Wouldn't knowing that you did the work to outplay them, not an rng, make you feel more happy?
Recently I've been playing vanilla spy/huntsman sniper, so I haven't been the beneficiary of random crits in a while. I agree in the overarching point you are trying to make. There is no point in arguing past this point since we will both just continue circle jerking in a never ending preference fest. I respect your opinion.
On June 30 2011 10:05 Stoids wrote: Calm down there Yoda. The game is supposed to be fun. I believe that crits add more fun for me than they take away. Your opinion may be different, so feel free to start up your own server.
Not to be a dick, but I can't imagine how anyone who's been playing the game for a while would think crits improve their experience. When I get a random crit I feel guilty and when I get critted I get infuriated. Can you explain why you feel this way?
It improves my experience, because if my teams sucks (happens often) but I'm wrecking house, I can annihilate the blob of enemies that are stupidly clustering together that I'd otherwise have issues with. It's great!
Also, the BGH analogy doesn't exactly work: competitive TF2 essentially forces classes on people and has smaller numbers of participants. Whereas the actual game doesn't do anything like that. So if you want talk class effectiveness on a large scale, well, there's pubs... and that's it.
Installed the game the other night with a bunch of mates, I have had it before but gosh it was brilliant fun. Loved playing scout, found it reminiscent of the mobility and how good it is to abuse it as zerg lol :D
Does anybody know if there are good weapons for him I should try trade for? I've always loved the scattergun and pistol, just curious about the others : )
On June 30 2011 10:42 curreh wrote: Installed the game the other night with a bunch of mates, I have had it before but gosh it was brilliant fun. Loved playing scout, found it reminiscent of the mobility and how good it is to abuse it as zerg lol :D
Does anybody know if there are good weapons for him I should try trade for? I've always loved the scattergun and pistol, just curious about the others : )
Vanilla scout is best scout. As I would say for every class, other than the ubersaw.
On June 30 2011 10:42 curreh wrote: Installed the game the other night with a bunch of mates, I have had it before but gosh it was brilliant fun. Loved playing scout, found it reminiscent of the mobility and how good it is to abuse it as zerg lol :D
Does anybody know if there are good weapons for him I should try trade for? I've always loved the scattergun and pistol, just curious about the others : )
Vanilla scout is best scout. As I would say for every class, other than the ubersaw.
ah yeah thanks shrub : ) always felt that way but with that new shortstop pistol I thought it might of been better, my friend was going quite well with it! I love how they do that with weapons how they're all just as good it mostly just depends on what you prefer but the vanilla are still quite solid
On June 30 2011 10:42 curreh wrote: Installed the game the other night with a bunch of mates, I have had it before but gosh it was brilliant fun. Loved playing scout, found it reminiscent of the mobility and how good it is to abuse it as zerg lol :D
Does anybody know if there are good weapons for him I should try trade for? I've always loved the scattergun and pistol, just curious about the others : )
Vanilla scout is best scout. As I would say for every class, other than the ubersaw.
ah yeah thanks shrub : ) always felt that way but with that new shortstop pistol I thought it might of been better, my friend was going quite well with it! I love how they do that with weapons how they're all just as good it mostly just depends on what you prefer but the vanilla are still quite solid
My bias is to not use the overpowered, broken, or dumb concepts (see demo knight) that valve insists on adding. While some weapons are viewed as upgrades by the community, I don't use them.
On June 30 2011 10:29 Shrub wrote: I know there is random chance, but the point is to always eliminate as much of it as possible. The point I was and will continue to make is that having crits off doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden take the game seriously. They just are not a good mechanic. As for the feeling of joy, you did nothing to influence your chance of getting a crit. Wouldn't you feel better knowing that you outplayed that person? Wouldn't knowing that you did the work to outplay them, not an rng, make you feel more happy?
Your (now) bolded statement is not entirely accurate
TF2 is casual game and has no pretense of being anything else (a third of the classes receive little or no play in competitive settings). The game is designed to be fun above all else and valve has created measures to improve that emotional rush you get from a good run. I'm sorry if crits do nothing for you but I personally go from 6 to midnight every time I get a crit nade off on 4 people crowded around a cart or checkpoint. Are crits a good mechanic for competetive play ? No, they're terrible in that context, but are they fun ? Fuck yeah.
I have been playing the game since before it's release (2007) and have came back to it time and time again because it's a damn fun game.
On June 30 2011 10:29 Shrub wrote: I know there is random chance, but the point is to always eliminate as much of it as possible. The point I was and will continue to make is that having crits off doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden take the game seriously. They just are not a good mechanic. As for the feeling of joy, you did nothing to influence your chance of getting a crit. Wouldn't you feel better knowing that you outplayed that person? Wouldn't knowing that you did the work to outplay them, not an rng, make you feel more happy?
Your (now) bolded statement is not entirely accurate
TF2 is casual game and has no pretense of being anything else (a third of the classes receive little or no play in competitive settings). The game is designed to be fun above all else and valve has created measures to improve that emotional rush you get from a good run. I'm sorry if crits do nothing for you but I personally go from 6 to midnight every time I get a crit nade off on 4 people crowded around a cart or checkpoint. Are crits a good mechanic for competetive play ? No, they're terrible in that context, but are they fun ? Fuck yeah.
I have been playing the game since before it's release (2007) and have came back to it time and time again because it's a damn fun game.
I've been playing just about since release. I keep coming back because it was fun and now I just can't fill the void. Crits never made the game for me, the unlocks never made the game for me either. Nowadays I play more so to just enjoy the people on a server I've been going to for years. I know most of you would have gotten up and left TF2 a long time ago, but if valve had dropped support before the first class update, I'd still be playing today.
On June 30 2011 12:12 Shrub wrote: I've been playing just about since release. I keep coming back because it was fun and now I just can't fill the void. Crits never made the game for me, the unlocks never made the game for me either. Nowadays I play more so to just enjoy the people on a server I've been going to for years. I know most of you would have gotten up and left TF2 a long time ago, but if valve had dropped support before the first class update, I'd still be playing today.
take up Hunstman sniping. Most fun shit ever. Melee demo is a blast too although you seem to be opposed to it.
Crits make the game more enjoyable for casual gamers. It levels the playing field to some extent. It's also fun to get a random crit, kill half their team and feel a bit giddy inside.
Still, nothing better than making people rage as sniper.
On June 30 2011 09:59 Cyberspace1 wrote: I remember when crits were based on how many previous kills you had...the good ol' days.
I'm pretty sure that's still the case, unless they've changed it again.
can someone tell me why i cant play this online? i can play the tutorail and practice vs bots. but no servers appear and the quick match never finds me a game.
On June 30 2011 12:12 Shrub wrote: I've been playing just about since release. I keep coming back because it was fun and now I just can't fill the void. Crits never made the game for me, the unlocks never made the game for me either. Nowadays I play more so to just enjoy the people on a server I've been going to for years. I know most of you would have gotten up and left TF2 a long time ago, but if valve had dropped support before the first class update, I'd still be playing today.
take up Hunstman sniping. Most fun shit ever. Melee demo is a blast too although you seem to be opposed to it.
Have done both, gave up on each of them for different reasons. I've just gone back to vanilla demo after abusing the hell out of sticky jumper caber for the past months, still fun just not as much as when I first started. The whip is amusing but I'll put mine away in a month or so and go back to the shovel.
quit after 3 days or so of play. I vastly prefer twitch based shooters. This game just seems like an excuse for people who can't aim and say that Tf2 requires "teamwork" instead. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not my cup of tea.
On June 30 2011 14:24 waffleduck wrote: It could be argued TF requires more aim than a lot of 'twitch shooters' like CoD, for some of the classes at least.
Hopefully he means like Quake 1/quake 3. To me, fast paced games are harder and more skillful than slow paced games. I would say the TF2 skill classes have at least as high of a skill ceiling as games like CoD and CS though.
This game is definitely harder to master than CoD. Every time I pick up CoD for a week I end up going 25-2 most games, which is stupid for the minimal time I put into it. I can only get that in TF2 if I play sniper and people ignore me for a long time.
A big thing with TF2 is obviously your server. I have a couple of favourites and I very rarely go elsewhere.
On June 30 2011 10:40 Badbiz wrote: Damn, people really forgot how to just enjoy a fun game....
"Any multiplayer game that gains a large playerbase MUST have some sort of "competitive" scene. Obviously. I mean, DUH." -TL TF2 Players
TF2 was never intended to be something resembling an esport any more than Left 4 Dead was. Naturally, posters on a Starcraft forum tend to forget that.
On June 30 2011 10:40 Badbiz wrote: Damn, people really forgot how to just enjoy a fun game....
"Any multiplayer game that gains a large playerbase MUST have some sort of "competitive" scene. Obviously. I mean, DUH." -TL TF2 Players
TF2 was never intended to be something resembling an esport any more than Left 4 Dead was. Naturally, posters on a Starcraft forum tend to forget that.
This is pretty stupid, are you denying that there is a competitive scene? Or that TF2 can be competitive?
On June 30 2011 10:40 Badbiz wrote: Damn, people really forgot how to just enjoy a fun game....
"Any multiplayer game that gains a large playerbase MUST have some sort of "competitive" scene. Obviously. I mean, DUH." -TL TF2 Players
TF2 was never intended to be something resembling an esport any more than Left 4 Dead was. Naturally, posters on a Starcraft forum tend to forget that.
And yet both games have a real competitive community. Hell Left 4 Dead is only approaching being balanced because the competitive community has taken it from tripping over medkits to actually being a somewhat difficult game that requires huge amounts of teamwork.
On June 30 2011 10:40 Badbiz wrote: Damn, people really forgot how to just enjoy a fun game....
"Any multiplayer game that gains a large playerbase MUST have some sort of "competitive" scene. Obviously. I mean, DUH." -TL TF2 Players
TF2 was never intended to be something resembling an esport any more than Left 4 Dead was. Naturally, posters on a Starcraft forum tend to forget that.
Doesn't have to have, but it's never a bad thing. No matter how much casual fun a game is, it's possible to make it competitive anyway, just look at super smash bros. It's a joke compared to real fighting games, yet it has a big community playing it competitively.
On June 30 2011 10:40 Badbiz wrote: Damn, people really forgot how to just enjoy a fun game....
"Any multiplayer game that gains a large playerbase MUST have some sort of "competitive" scene. Obviously. I mean, DUH." -TL TF2 Players
TF2 was never intended to be something resembling an esport any more than Left 4 Dead was. Naturally, posters on a Starcraft forum tend to forget that.
Yes, why don't we play Brood War the way it's meant to be played too, and counter Firebats TvT by building bunkers throughout our town. Link for if you don't get the reference.
TF2 is way more fun for competitive play than the other team based shooters.
This is pretty stupid, are you denying that there is a competitive scene? Or that TF2 can be competitive?
You think BW was designed to be an esport?
Yes, I am denying that TF2 can be competitive. Once you learn how to aim and use a few very basic tactics you have essentially reached the skill cap for the hardest classes. Brood War requires years of practice to be competitive. TF2 requires having owned a copy of Quake.
And yet both games have a real competitive community. Hell Left 4 Dead is only approaching being balanced because the competitive community has taken it from tripping over medkits to actually being a somewhat difficult game that requires huge amounts of teamwork.
Players may think that Left 4 Dead has a competitive community, but between the entire game hinging on a random tank/witch spawns, players having no control over which infected they spawn as, weapon-switch melee exploiting, boomers and smokers only hitting targets half as often as they ought, and the inconsistent scoring system, I imagine that it is pretty tough to set up any reliably fair kind of competition.
Doesn't have to have, but it's never a bad thing. No matter how much casual fun a game is, it's possible to make it competitive anyway, just look at super smash bros. It's a joke compared to real fighting games, yet it has a big community playing it competitively.
SSMB is incredibly difficult and (as long as you disable item drops) very much favors the better player consistently. As I understand it, TF2 is not hard enough to support a significant competitive community.
I think you're grossly underestimating the amount of skill TF2 requires. It wasn't designed to be competitive, and the way the competitive scene is currently constructed doesn't garner much interest, but neither of those means much.
On July 01 2011 00:15 zer0das wrote: I think you're grossly underestimating the amount of skill TF2 requires. It wasn't designed to be competitive, and the way the competitive scene is currently constructed doesn't garner much interest, but neither of those means much.
Are you sure that they don't mean much? Those sound like two great points that I might edit into my post. How could competitive play be restructured so as to be more interesting?
Did they change the drop system for TF2? I'm way behind on items, so I thought of idling to get them (while I do my paper). But someone told me they changed the drop system again.
I also just got Ze Goggles Hat if anyone's interested (and 23 crates -__________-; )
On June 30 2011 16:49 .Aar wrote: Sweet, downloading right now. Hope the learning curve isn't too bad.
It isn't ^^ Played it for the first time like a week ago, you'll be rolling and having fun within an hour. There are tips fucking everywhere and it is only the spy and engineer class that requires some understanding of the class and the maps but one can play around nonetheless with them.
I still don't understand items completely though, how to get them and sometimes get confused by items the opponents or allies have. But meh, who cares ^^
And yet both games have a real competitive community. Hell Left 4 Dead is only approaching being balanced because the competitive community has taken it from tripping over medkits to actually being a somewhat difficult game that requires huge amounts of teamwork.
Players may think that Left 4 Dead has a competitive community, but between the entire game hinging on a random tank/witch spawns, players having no control over which infected they spawn as, weapon-switch melee exploiting, boomers and smokers only hitting targets half as often as they ought, and the inconsistent scoring system, I imagine that it is pretty tough to set up any reliably fair kind of competition.
There are hit box issues with boomers but you'd be wrong about a lot of the other issues. The first step was to lower item density and remove extra health items on maps (with a few exceptions). Hell L4D1 had a config that was 2 sets of staring pills pills and 1 of each throwable, 1 gas can, and 1 propane tank hidden throughout the map. Being able to choose SI is a terrible idea as it leads to having the same attack every time as opposed to being able to work and function as every SI in the game. The scoring system was fixed to be distance based by the community a long time ago as well. I think they've moved on from confogl but that is what the old standard used to be for L4D2. I'm not sure just how much is left of the community, but they are trying to bring in more growth again with a program called community 4 fame if you ever care to try. I stopped playing L4D a long time ago just because it stopped being fun but I know that program is alive again.
On July 01 2011 02:26 Torte de Lini wrote: Did they change the drop system for TF2? I'm way behind on items, so I thought of idling to get them (while I do my paper). But someone told me they changed the drop system again.
I also just got Ze Goggles Hat if anyone's interested (and 23 crates -__________-; )
I think that you get a fixed amount of items per week, assuming you score points for your class, reset every Thursday(?). I don't know if crates count into that or not...You can also get items fo achievement milestones.
On July 01 2011 02:26 Torte de Lini wrote: Did they change the drop system for TF2? I'm way behind on items, so I thought of idling to get them (while I do my paper). But someone told me they changed the drop system again.
I also just got Ze Goggles Hat if anyone's interested (and 23 crates -__________-; )
On July 01 2011 02:26 Torte de Lini wrote: Did they change the drop system for TF2? I'm way behind on items, so I thought of idling to get them (while I do my paper). But someone told me they changed the drop system again.
I also just got Ze Goggles Hat if anyone's interested (and 23 crates -__________-; )
The current drop system rolls for when your next drop is given, and then you play that amount of time and you get an item. Typically you get ~1-2 items per day, and it is believed there is cap of 8-10 items per week, although Valve has never said anything on the issue. You still get drops from getting class achievements too, but the items you receive are set in stone.
If you don't play a lot and you idle, you'll get your 8-10 items without having to play. I have a friend who does that. He's been doing it for like a month, and I asked him how many items he's obtained and he said 50+.
On July 01 2011 03:27 Torte de Lini wrote: Kind of ridiculous since it is now F2P. You can just idle for items all day o__o
This is sure to bring a new era of video games: Chinese hat farmers, they have hundreds of crappy PC's which can barely run the game in a tiny room, they will then assign people to walk between the PC's, collecting the items and trading to accounts selling the wares for half the price of the valve store, and changing to another user if the item limit is hit.
On July 01 2011 03:37 Shrub wrote: You guys to realize that free accounts aren't able to put up items in a trade right? That and the value of most items have dropped a lot.
Nope, didn't know! Thanks :B
I guess crates are super popular now or something?
Crits are the best thing. Words cannot explain the joy of defending on a payload map with a demo as a big group is about to hit a checkpoint... and the last sticky you shoot out has that wonderful, sparkly glow and lands right at the feet of that mess of heavies and medics
This is pretty stupid, are you denying that there is a competitive scene? Or that TF2 can be competitive?
You think BW was designed to be an esport?
Yes, I am denying that TF2 can be competitive. Once you learn how to aim and use a few very basic tactics you have essentially reached the skill cap for the hardest classes. Brood War requires years of practice to be competitive. TF2 requires having owned a copy of Quake.
And yet both games have a real competitive community. Hell Left 4 Dead is only approaching being balanced because the competitive community has taken it from tripping over medkits to actually being a somewhat difficult game that requires huge amounts of teamwork.
Players may think that Left 4 Dead has a competitive community, but between the entire game hinging on a random tank/witch spawns, players having no control over which infected they spawn as, weapon-switch melee exploiting, boomers and smokers only hitting targets half as often as they ought, and the inconsistent scoring system, I imagine that it is pretty tough to set up any reliably fair kind of competition.
Doesn't have to have, but it's never a bad thing. No matter how much casual fun a game is, it's possible to make it competitive anyway, just look at super smash bros. It's a joke compared to real fighting games, yet it has a big community playing it competitively.
SSMB is incredibly difficult and (as long as you disable item drops) very much favors the better player consistently. As I understand it, TF2 is not hard enough to support a significant competitive community.
Wow, I can't believe how ignorant you are. You realize that for a long while a lot of top quake 1 and 3 players, CS players, and CoD, RTCW players were competitively playing TF2? You really think that if the ceiling was so low these players could stay interested in the game? Especially compared to the quake series where the action is constant.
Seriously, you are completely fucking stupid if you think the TF2 ceiling is that low. It blows my mind. Your point about it not being designed to be an E-sport makes you look even dumber than ever. Because BW was designed to be an E-sport, right?
Edit: To further illustrate my point to this nimwit: If the game's skill ceiling was low, there would be minimal skill differential possible, because so many people could easily reach the top and the only factor for winning matches at that point would be other random variables. However, the top few clans with the really good players from Quake and other skillful shooters dominated. A lot.
This is pretty stupid, are you denying that there is a competitive scene? Or that TF2 can be competitive?
You think BW was designed to be an esport?
Yes, I am denying that TF2 can be competitive. Once you learn how to aim and use a few very basic tactics you have essentially reached the skill cap for the hardest classes. Brood War requires years of practice to be competitive. TF2 requires having owned a copy of Quake.
And yet both games have a real competitive community. Hell Left 4 Dead is only approaching being balanced because the competitive community has taken it from tripping over medkits to actually being a somewhat difficult game that requires huge amounts of teamwork.
Players may think that Left 4 Dead has a competitive community, but between the entire game hinging on a random tank/witch spawns, players having no control over which infected they spawn as, weapon-switch melee exploiting, boomers and smokers only hitting targets half as often as they ought, and the inconsistent scoring system, I imagine that it is pretty tough to set up any reliably fair kind of competition.
Doesn't have to have, but it's never a bad thing. No matter how much casual fun a game is, it's possible to make it competitive anyway, just look at super smash bros. It's a joke compared to real fighting games, yet it has a big community playing it competitively.
SSMB is incredibly difficult and (as long as you disable item drops) very much favors the better player consistently. As I understand it, TF2 is not hard enough to support a significant competitive community.
Wow, I can't believe how ignorant you are. You realize that for a long while a lot of top quake 1 and 3 players, CS players, and CoD, RTCW players were competitively playing TF2? You really think that if the ceiling was so low these players could stay interested in the game? Especially compared to the quake series where the action is constant.
Seriously, you are completely fucking stupid if you think the TF2 ceiling is that low. It blows my mind. Your point about it not being designed to be an E-sport makes you look even dumber than ever. Because BW was designed to be an E-sport, right?
Edit: To further illustrate my point to this nimwit: If the game's skill ceiling was low, there would be minimal skill differential possible, because so many people could easily reach the top and the only factor for winning matches at that point would be other random variables. However, the top few clans with the really good players from Quake and other skillful shooters dominated. A lot.
I agree with this. Although I'm not huge about the TF2 competitive scene, it is there and is pretty strong. There are some top quality FPS players playing TF2 full-time. The high skill ceiling is definitely present, it's just obvious you haven't reached it yet (nor have any of us).
In terms of competative play, one thing you have to keep in mind is that with all FPS's, the skill ceiling jumps incredibaly as you have less and less number of players in a match. TF2 is meant to be crazy with 10 v 10 + players, but if you remove the majority of the players, then there are fewer factors and more comes down to the skills of the individual. This is the same case with CS. When i played CS:S, the people with the best scores in the largest servers weren't the ones that ran out and went crazy. It was the ones that knew how to position themselves to get kills while remaining behind the rest of their team. Once the majority of the players had died, the better players could come out where their superior skills had a bigger impact.
Think about it, if its 32 vs 32, if you have 10 people spraying down the corridor, it doesn't matter how fast you are with your trigger, you'll get ripped apart. However, if its 2 people vs 2 people shooting down that hall, every shot counts. So I can see why people might think that TF2 isn't good for competative play, because it's designed for more people (just look at the design of the spy, which requires a large population to hide in), it may seem to have a lower cap. If you lower the number of players though, the best will always find things to exploit and ways to gain the slightest advantage over another player. This is what ultimately makes the game competative.
This is pretty stupid, are you denying that there is a competitive scene? Or that TF2 can be competitive?
You think BW was designed to be an esport?
Yes, I am denying that TF2 can be competitive. Once you learn how to aim and use a few very basic tactics you have essentially reached the skill cap for the hardest classes. Brood War requires years of practice to be competitive. TF2 requires having owned a copy of Quake.
And yet both games have a real competitive community. Hell Left 4 Dead is only approaching being balanced because the competitive community has taken it from tripping over medkits to actually being a somewhat difficult game that requires huge amounts of teamwork.
Players may think that Left 4 Dead has a competitive community, but between the entire game hinging on a random tank/witch spawns, players having no control over which infected they spawn as, weapon-switch melee exploiting, boomers and smokers only hitting targets half as often as they ought, and the inconsistent scoring system, I imagine that it is pretty tough to set up any reliably fair kind of competition.
Doesn't have to have, but it's never a bad thing. No matter how much casual fun a game is, it's possible to make it competitive anyway, just look at super smash bros. It's a joke compared to real fighting games, yet it has a big community playing it competitively.
SSMB is incredibly difficult and (as long as you disable item drops) very much favors the better player consistently. As I understand it, TF2 is not hard enough to support a significant competitive community.
Wow, I can't believe how ignorant you are. You realize that for a long while a lot of top quake 1 and 3 players, CS players, and CoD, RTCW players were competitively playing TF2? You really think that if the ceiling was so low these players could stay interested in the game? Especially compared to the quake series where the action is constant.
Seriously, you are completely fucking stupid if you think the TF2 ceiling is that low. It blows my mind. Your point about it not being designed to be an E-sport makes you look even dumber than ever. Because BW was designed to be an E-sport, right?
Edit: To further illustrate my point to this nimwit: If the game's skill ceiling was low, there would be minimal skill differential possible, because so many people could easily reach the top and the only factor for winning matches at that point would be other random variables. However, the top few clans with the really good players from Quake and other skillful shooters dominated. A lot.
Good points. I agree. Also, I used the word "intended" when I should not have. I was trying to say something along the lines of "TF2 has as much e-sport potential as L4D does." However, I was wrong.
On July 01 2011 04:27 [Agony]x90 wrote: In terms of competative play, one thing you have to keep in mind is that with all FPS's, the skill ceiling jumps incredibaly as you have less and less number of players in a match. TF2 is meant to be crazy with 10 v 10 + players, but if you remove the majority of the players, then there are fewer factors and more comes down to the skills of the individual. This is the same case with CS. When i played CS:S, the people with the best scores in the largest servers weren't the ones that ran out and went crazy. It was the ones that knew how to position themselves to get kills while remaining behind the rest of their team. Once the majority of the players had died, the better players could come out where their superior skills had a bigger impact.
Think about it, if its 32 vs 32, if you have 10 people spraying down the corridor, it doesn't matter how fast you are with your trigger, you'll get ripped apart. However, if its 2 people vs 2 people shooting down that hall, every shot counts. So I can see why people might think that TF2 isn't good for competative play, because it's designed for more people (just look at the design of the spy, which requires a large population to hide in), it may seem to have a lower cap. If you lower the number of players though, the best will always find things to exploit and ways to gain the slightest advantage over another player. This is what ultimately makes the game competative.
Better points and not insulting. I guess that thinking that TF2 can't be competitive because there is so much content that is clearly not useful in competitive play is like saying that SC2 can't be an e-sport because of the mothership and campaign-only units.
On July 01 2011 03:57 Looky wrote: there is a competitive scene. it is actually hard to hit opponent since it isnt instant shots. there's lots of nice plays.
Instant shots? You mean hitscan? There is plenty of that.
I play TF2 competitively, but I'd have a hard time arguing that it is as competitive as Starcraft or Quake because its not. Much smaller prize pools and a smaller competitive community overall makes it generally less competitive. I certainly think it has the potential to be though, especially since everybody and their wife owns this game now, it just the competitive side needs a little publicity which is why I think its a shame Wheat kinda dismissed it completely.
I think Valve could be doing a lot more. It wouldn't take much work to advertise tournaments and streams on their blog/mainsite, or they could simply enlist the help of a community that is desperate to make more publicity. Its mostly ok that Valve tailor their updates/unlocks etc to pub players, because thats where the money is, but things like improving the spectator hud, fixing some issues with demos and generally publicising the existence of competitive TF2 would help a great deal, and would ultimately improve their bottom line. It seems to me their is a unfilled void of competitive PC shooters atm, and now that TF2 is f2p I think they are missing a huge chance to not just get a tonne of people playing the game, but to have them still playing in 3-4 years.
As for skill ceiling...well I admire Quake players. Such perfect accuracy...but what always impressed me most was their gamesense and timing. Watching two high skilled Quake players really go at it was always a massive thrill for me, akin to watching BW matches between Flash and Jaedong. TF2 has the same demands for accuracy as Quake, but in place of controlling armour its about teamwork and controlling the map. I think there is a lot of depth there that even the top TF2 players dismiss, buts its often no surprise that teams with the most experienced leaders often beat teams with superior deathmatching skills, purely because of smart calls and good positioning. Long story short, what competitive TF2 needs is to get discovered. It needs more people playing, more competition, more interest from sponsors and bigger prizepools.
I played TF2 for a while maybe ill get into it agian. I dunno i always found it kinda hard to really enjoy a game where i hit someone with 4 rockets or 5 shotgun blasts and they didn't die. Must be the years of Goldeneye on license to kill that influenced me.
On July 01 2011 03:37 Shrub wrote: You guys to realize that free accounts aren't able to put up items in a trade right? That and the value of most items have dropped a lot.
Nope, didn't know! Thanks :B
I guess crates are super popular now or something?
Hell no, I just collected them a while ago just because.
Also how much of the competitive TF2 scene is still alive? I thought it was on its way out but everyone makes it sound like it is not.
On July 01 2011 06:51 DannyJ wrote: I played TF2 for a while maybe ill get into it agian. I dunno i always found it kinda hard to really enjoy a game where i hit someone with 4 rockets or 5 shotgun blasts and they didn't die. Must be the years of Goldeneye on license to kill that influenced me.
You must either have pretty bad aim and just think you hit them or are shooting from entirely too far away. 4 rockets or 5 shotgun shells should kill any class that isn't being constantly healed, easily.
I started playing this again recently with the flood of people coming in. If anyone wants a medic to follow them around all game, add me on steam name is Ivrae.
On July 01 2011 10:04 Irave wrote: I started playing this again recently with the flood of people coming in. If anyone wants a medic to follow them around all game, add me on steam name is Ivrae.
Yes add me as well I am on the TL and TL TF2 fan list thingamajig so you can find me on there under the name FirstAscent. I spend all my non-SC time playing Sudden Attack but this seems like a nice game since its not just mass TRG vs TRG style play that I usually get on that game. My steam name is RaLakedaimon but everything else on there is FirstAscent so add both I need people to show me the ropes of this game, I'm not used to FPS where you can heal each other or the funky weapons.
What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
The Scattergun is the standard, however I am not aware of the new items, so I cannot tell you about that.
Force-a-Nature is an opportunist weapon, if you catch someone off-guard or nearly dead, the FON will finish the jump. However the low clip, the nerfs to its pushback effect over the course of many months leave it terribly undesirable, especially on PL maps or non CP maps.
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
I personally quite often use the shortstop, primarily cause it scales better at a distance than the scatterguns.
I prefer to stay at close-medium range to kill opponents (cause its by far safer), and i find the shortstop works well in this niche.
Also, the shortstop decreases the value of the pistol, so I usually switch my secondary for either a bonk or mad milk.
Edit: I havent tried out any of the new items (The most recent patch) yet
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
Scattergun all the way. It's the most versatile of the scout weapons.
no, i checked the store and the don't have a key yet. i suspect that the summer cooler is in some way tied into the super summer sale steam is having. acheavment-key corroboration? also, how you you do the kamakazi taunt :p?
Why the heck can't snipers no-scope in the head? And what's up with that demoman katana that recharges his health on a ONE HIT KILL and makes him charge 40 feet?
On July 02 2011 03:17 Dalguno wrote: I love this game, but I've got two major gripes.
Why the heck can't snipers no-scope in the head? And what's up with that demoman katana that recharges his health on a ONE HIT KILL and makes him charge 40 feet?
The katan and charge is seperate, the charge takes up your secondary slot, so you can't have stickies, and it gives you that charge, and some fire resistance
What's everyone's opinion of Direct Hit? I've been using that instead of the stock rocket launcher and I feel like it makes me a lot better at killing things from further away but feels pretty awful up close. I'm pretty sure I've done more damage to myself than to enemies at close range
On July 02 2011 03:14 Lord Vatti wrote: no, i checked the store and the don't have a key yet. i suspect that the summer cooler is in some way tied into the super summer sale steam is having. acheavment-key corroboration? also, how you you do the kamakazi taunt :p?
As Soldier, equip the Equalizer and taunt. It takes a fairly long time to complete so don't expect it to do much. It is amusing when you manage a kill though. :D
On July 02 2011 03:17 Dalguno wrote: I love this game, but I've got two major gripes.
Why the heck can't snipers no-scope in the head? And what's up with that demoman katana that recharges his health on a ONE HIT KILL and makes him charge 40 feet?
1. Because, it would be overpowered. You can already one shot kill any class with a charged shot, and one shot kill/almost one shot kill classes with a charged body shot. You want 150 damage instantly? Yeah... no.
2. The sword doesn't do both. Has to give up his sticky bomb launcher to get a shield (either the targe or the splendid screen) to charge. Charge has a cooldown. Also makes the demoman largely worthless because he gave up his best gun. Demo knights are easy to counter with bullets (ie, scouts, heavies, snipers), or with a pyro (catch on fire, toss in the air... optional axtinguisher), not to mention they're pretty useless against well entrenched sentries. They're also not as invincible against explosives as they were during the WAR update. They're essentially just gimmicks.
On July 02 2011 03:22 Phrost wrote: What's everyone's opinion of Direct Hit? I've been using that instead of the stock rocket launcher and I feel like it makes me a lot better at killing things from further away but feels pretty awful up close. I'm pretty sure I've done more damage to myself than to enemies at close range
The opposite is true, in my experience. The splash damage is terrible, so it sucks at a distance unless your target is stupid/not paying attention to you (it is better for mid-range though). Close quarters, it is easy to hit someone and does a lot more damage than the rocket launcher. And you really have to be shooting someone that is pretty much touching you to be taking a lot of splash damage from it. Liberty launcher is a good middle ground, I think- faster projectile speed, same splash damage radius, just one less ammo.
On July 02 2011 03:17 Dalguno wrote: I love this game, but I've got two major gripes.
Why the heck can't snipers no-scope in the head? And what's up with that demoman katana that recharges his health on a ONE HIT KILL and makes him charge 40 feet?
1. Because, it would be overpowered. You can already one shot kill any class with a charged shot, and one shot kill/almost one shot kill classes with a charged body shot. You want 150 damage instantly? Yeah... no.
2. The sword doesn't do both. Has to give up his sticky bomb launcher to get a shield (either the targe or the splendid screen) to charge. Charge has cooldown. Also makes the demoman largely worthless because he gave up his best gun. Demo knights are easy to counter with bullets (ie, scouts, heavies, snipers), or with a pyro (catch on fire, toss in the air... optional axtinguisher), not to mention they're pretty useless against well entrenched sentries. They're also not as invincible against explosives as they were during the WAR update. They're essentially just gimmicks.
Ooooh, wasn't aware about the sword not doing both. Good to know.
Still though, I would love being able to no-scope, or at least do more than 50 damage without scoping.. Or does a headshot do more damage than a bodyshot no scope? I gave up and didn't pay attention when I learned you couldn't kill them.
On July 02 2011 03:22 Phrost wrote: What's everyone's opinion of Direct Hit? I've been using that instead of the stock rocket launcher and I feel like it makes me a lot better at killing things from further away but feels pretty awful up close. I'm pretty sure I've done more damage to myself than to enemies at close range
Use the stock rocket launcher instead, way better.
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
Scattergun all the way. It's the most versatile of the scout weapons.
think the shortstop def wins the "most versatile" award for scout. fast reload, good dmg at close/mid range and it "opens up" your 2nd slot for milk or bonk. also sandman->milk-> shoot is such a effective combo.
On July 02 2011 03:22 Phrost wrote: What's everyone's opinion of Direct Hit? I've been using that instead of the stock rocket launcher and I feel like it makes me a lot better at killing things from further away but feels pretty awful up close. I'm pretty sure I've done more damage to myself than to enemies at close range
yeah its better on distance but i personally dont like it much. it just goes against my instincts always aiming for direct hits with a rocket launcher. and as you said you the others are better to bounce around enemys at close/mid range.
but some love it and 1hitting people sure is fun ~
On June 29 2011 02:48 ishboh wrote: i like this game, but some things are just really annoying about it, first and foremost, is the engineer.
sentry guns kill WAY too fast, and can only really be killed effectively by certain classes. I play scout, and I cannot deal with sentries, so if we are playing 2fort against 3 engineers placing turrets in his own base or something, I am completely useless. I played engineer for like, half an hour and I got more of the achievements unlocked than I did with 4-5 hours of playing the scout (i also went like 10:1 kill to death ratio, whereas my scout is usually about 2:1, if that)
it just doesn't take any skill to be engineers, or for that matter, a heavy. spies require some skill, but are really annoying and I would have liked it if they had a better weapon and couldn't go invisible.
classes that I think are cool are demoman, soldier, scout, sniper, medic, pyro
1: Don't play 2fort. It's the best example of terrible map design.
2: Might as well ask why Heavies die miserably to snipers -.-
Scouts are extremely mobile and have little HP. Why would you expect to be able to solo the most immobile class in the game at the height of his strength, inside his sentry nest? This is Team Fortress, unfortunately, and if you and your team aren't up to cooperating (which happens all too often in pubs)...well, that's too bad. Switch classes once in a while if you can't find a cooperative team.
3: Heavies, engineers, and pyro have low skill ceilings. Demoman, soldier, and scout have high skill ceilings. The other classes could probably be grouped like this too, but I'm not going to bother. I do wish Valve would raise the skill ceiling (and lower the skill floor) of some of the classes, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
yeah i guess you are right about the team stuff, i just get frustrated when I can't get past a sentry in CTF or something and I don't really have any option but to wait for someone else to take it out.
but the skill ceilings/floors is what I was complaining about, i don't mind a little difference in them, but its just too much with engineers and heavys at times...still a fun game though
I need some help, I was going to put this in Tech Support but since it's about TF2 I decided to put it in here.
I can barely ever connect to servers, i'll load the game and enter the server browser. When I click on a server a window pops up and says "Server is not responding". I try to refresh the server and retry again and still says the same thing. Also, the servers on the server list will dissapear and when I try to refresh the list the browser can't find any servers. This will last a while but if I keep TF2 open long enough I can finally join one.
Sometimes I also can't connect to the item server so when I do finally get into a game i'm forced to use the default weapons. This has been happening for a long time but I never really bothered to fix it.
Does anyone know how to fix this? I was going to post on the Steam forums but it's taking forever for them to activate my account and I want to fix this now.
On July 02 2011 04:42 Displace77 wrote: I need some help, I was going to put this in Tech Support but since it's about TF2 I decided to put it in here.
I can barely ever connect to servers, i'll load the game and enter the server browser. When I click on a server a window pops up and says "Server is not responding". I try to refresh the server and retry again and still says the same thing. Also, the servers on the server list will dissapear and when I try to refresh the list the browser can't find any servers. This will last a while but if I keep TF2 open long enough I can finally join one.
Sometimes I also can't connect to the item server so when I do finally get into a game i'm forced to use the default weapons. This has been happening for a long time but I never really bothered to fix it.
Does anyone know how to fix this? I was going to post on the Steam forums but it's taking forever for them to activate my account and I want to fix this now.
The server not responding thing is normal. It either takes awhile for it to actually respond or the server is really not responding.
On July 02 2011 03:22 Phrost wrote: What's everyone's opinion of Direct Hit? I've been using that instead of the stock rocket launcher and I feel like it makes me a lot better at killing things from further away but feels pretty awful up close. I'm pretty sure I've done more damage to myself than to enemies at close range
Use the stock rocket launcher instead, way better.
I'm actually really liking the liberty launcher over the stock launcher ever since i got it a few days ago. Now I only use the liberty and the direct hit.
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
Scattergun all the way. It's the most versatile of the scout weapons.
think the shortstop def wins the "most versatile" award for scout. fast reload, good dmg at close/mid range and it "opens up" your 2nd slot for milk or bonk. also sandman->milk-> shoot is such a effective combo.
First of all, you have to track aim with the shortstop to be effective, while with the scattergun you can do the easier flicks. Then with the shortstop you can't go in and get these juicy 100 damage shots.
Scattergun still has good damage capabilities at a medium range, good burst capabilities, and suits a good scout playstyle best.
With the shortstop you kind of need to abuse the precision of the weapon, stay at a range, where only a demo and maybe a sniper can really hurt you and just spam the enemies. It is overpowered at that, and doesn't fit the scout.
On July 02 2011 04:34 ishboh wrote: so my question to everyone is, should I go bonk or just stock pistol? (i dont have milk yet, all I have is bonk and force o' nature)
On July 02 2011 03:22 Phrost wrote: What's everyone's opinion of Direct Hit? I've been using that instead of the stock rocket launcher and I feel like it makes me a lot better at killing things from further away but feels pretty awful up close. I'm pretty sure I've done more damage to myself than to enemies at close range
Use the stock rocket launcher instead, way better.
I'm actually really liking the liberty launcher over the stock launcher ever since i got it a few days ago. Now I only use the liberty and the direct hit.
Well, if you want to learn how to play soldier properly, you gotta use the default launcher. Both of those leave you with less options.
Al'right guys! I got all the new items + some hats for my Bill's hat! so I'm ready to gear up and play as soon as I finish writing my paper and catch-up on my schoolwork!
I'm also in talks with some server admins about getting us a server. I don't want to say much just yet, but it might tailored for you guys and suited to get the full general experience of TF2.
Let me know if this is of interest for you guys! I would love the idea of TLers being fragged almost purely by other TLers :3
If anyone wants to join me (especially new people who want help/advice), I'll be playing a lot of TF2 today. Same nick as my teamliquid one, so add me as a friend! :O
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
Scattergun all the way. It's the most versatile of the scout weapons.
think the shortstop def wins the "most versatile" award for scout. fast reload, good dmg at close/mid range and it "opens up" your 2nd slot for milk or bonk. also sandman->milk-> shoot is such a effective combo.
First of all, you have to track aim with the shortstop to be effective, while with the scattergun you can do the easier flicks. Then with the shortstop you can't go in and get these juicy 100 damage shots.
Scattergun still has good damage capabilities at a medium range, good burst capabilities, and suits a good scout playstyle best.
With the shortstop you kind of need to abuse the precision of the weapon, stay at a range, where only a demo and maybe a sniper can really hurt you and just spam the enemies. It is overpowered at that, and doesn't fit the scout.
well its not like the shortstop is bad at close range. ofc it doesnt have the super close power of a forceanature 2 hit blast but 200 dmg in like a second is enough to kill most classes. and that it requires the aim doesnt matter much imho since if you play scout you should have decent aim/movement anyways.
ofc scattergun is awesome but just find the shortstop to have less/no weakness (like the age long reload of the scattergun) outside of it taking away the pistol . but given the insanely strong and useful milk and fun bonk thats imho not a big drawback. so imho shortstop is def the most versatile. no real drawbacks and a bigger zone where you are dangerous.
and isnt shortstop even banned in competive? not sure but heared that. would be another sign for its strength
got 4 new weapons so far. splendid screen/family business i dont care much about(use sandvich/dalokohs on heavy and if i play demo i want to abuse the sticky launcher ;P). liberty launcher is a interesting sidegrade but i prefer my blackbox overall. the detonator(new flare) seems good tho. i miss the 90 dmg crits on burning targets but the ability to a) put a whole group on fire from distance and b) have a much easier time hitting with the flare seems pretty good.
On July 02 2011 04:34 ishboh wrote: so my question to everyone is, should I go bonk or just stock pistol? (i dont have milk yet, all I have is bonk and force o' nature)
Bonk is one of those items you should switch to in specific situations you can use it, like running past a chokepoint, sticky trap, etc. I'd recommend keeping the pistol equipped for general use
It depends on the map. Bonk is great for CTF and Attack/Defend maps. In Arena, I'd say Bonk.
The pistol is a finisher. It's for when your shotgun didn't finish them off or they've managed to escape.
Right now, I'm running Stock Shotgun, The Winger and the bat is great. I've never found myself ever using the bat unless on spies. So the Atomizer allows me to get a double-jump for very little damage (it's better than the baseball bat).
The Winger still has 5 shots in a clip, that's one more than needed, so it's good as well in my opinion since two meatshots is plenty to kill most targets you want.
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
Scattergun all the way. It's the most versatile of the scout weapons.
think the shortstop def wins the "most versatile" award for scout. fast reload, good dmg at close/mid range and it "opens up" your 2nd slot for milk or bonk. also sandman->milk-> shoot is such a effective combo.
First of all, you have to track aim with the shortstop to be effective, while with the scattergun you can do the easier flicks. Then with the shortstop you can't go in and get these juicy 100 damage shots.
Scattergun still has good damage capabilities at a medium range, good burst capabilities, and suits a good scout playstyle best.
With the shortstop you kind of need to abuse the precision of the weapon, stay at a range, where only a demo and maybe a sniper can really hurt you and just spam the enemies. It is overpowered at that, and doesn't fit the scout.
well its not like the shortstop is bad at close range. ofc it doesnt have the super close power of a forceanature 2 hit blast but 200 dmg in like a second is enough to kill most classes. and that it requires the aim doesnt matter much imho since if you play scout you should have decent aim/movement anyways.
ofc scattergun is awesome but just find the shortstop to have less/no weakness (like the age long reload of the scattergun) outside of it taking away the pistol . but given the insanely strong and useful milk and fun bonk thats imho not a big drawback. so imho shortstop is def the most versatile. no real drawbacks and a bigger zone where you are dangerous.
and isnt shortstop even banned in competive? not sure but heared that. would be another sign for its strength
Everything is banned in proper (european :D) comp play. Vanilla weapons and the original 3 medic unlocks are the only things allowed. Everything else has at best a questionable effect on the game. Most of it is either too bad to even use, has a terrible effect on the game or is just overpowered.
Basically, if you want to learn how to play the game properly, use the vanilla unlock. Everything else mostly just dumbs it down.
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc
Scattergun all the way. It's the most versatile of the scout weapons.
think the shortstop def wins the "most versatile" award for scout. fast reload, good dmg at close/mid range and it "opens up" your 2nd slot for milk or bonk. also sandman->milk-> shoot is such a effective combo.
First of all, you have to track aim with the shortstop to be effective, while with the scattergun you can do the easier flicks. Then with the shortstop you can't go in and get these juicy 100 damage shots.
Scattergun still has good damage capabilities at a medium range, good burst capabilities, and suits a good scout playstyle best.
With the shortstop you kind of need to abuse the precision of the weapon, stay at a range, where only a demo and maybe a sniper can really hurt you and just spam the enemies. It is overpowered at that, and doesn't fit the scout.
well its not like the shortstop is bad at close range. ofc it doesnt have the super close power of a forceanature 2 hit blast but 200 dmg in like a second is enough to kill most classes. and that it requires the aim doesnt matter much imho since if you play scout you should have decent aim/movement anyways.
ofc scattergun is awesome but just find the shortstop to have less/no weakness (like the age long reload of the scattergun) outside of it taking away the pistol . but given the insanely strong and useful milk and fun bonk thats imho not a big drawback. so imho shortstop is def the most versatile. no real drawbacks and a bigger zone where you are dangerous.
and isnt shortstop even banned in competive? not sure but heared that. would be another sign for its strength
Everything is banned in proper (european :D) comp play. Vanilla weapons and the original 3 medic unlocks are the only things allowed. Everything else has at best a questionable effect on the game. Most of it is either too bad to even use, has a terrible effect on the game or is just overpowered.
Basically, if you want to learn how to play the game properly, use the vanilla unlock. Everything else mostly just dumbs it down.
I really like the force of nature on a scout. You can really tell the difference between a skilled user of it and not due to the ability to have a third jump if you aim it properly.
On July 04 2011 04:10 Garrl wrote: ETF2L premiership finals (TT vs TCM) are going on in 5 mins. Either casted in the first stream or with team comms for TCM on the second.
On July 03 2011 10:02 h3r1n6 wrote: Everything is banned in proper (european :D) comp play. Vanilla weapons and the original 3 medic unlocks are the only things allowed. Everything else has at best a questionable effect on the game. Most of it is either too bad to even use, has a terrible effect on the game or is just overpowered.
Basically, if you want to learn how to play the game properly, use the vanilla unlock. Everything else mostly just dumbs it down.
Wait...they even banned the Axetinguisher and Equalizer? What the hell?
To play the game somewhat competently, a few classes need their unlocks. For example, Pyro needs the Axetinguisher and, nowadays, the Degreaser [the Backburner sometimes works, but not as reliably]. And Medic needs his Ubersaw.
On July 04 2011 06:05 Kyuukyuu wrote: TL server 74.201.57.20:27015 come play~
No one is on. :>
Yes, the reason why competitive TF2 is pretty niche- they just ban everything that is mildly interesting.
The Pubs vs. Pros competition that's run every season or so is fun to watch. Highlander pubstars vs. competitive format proteam, no weapon restrictions on either side
Great game, lots of fun, have like 300 hours on it. As for the move to F2P, i dunno, i really dont like games that move to the F2P model, it seems like theyre trying to nickle and dime you through the 10 bijillion items and little extras you can buy, obviously you dont have to but some of the items are necessity. Its good that valve kept it so that you can still just find items in TF2 and not have to pay but im still uneasy with the micro transactions.
On July 03 2011 10:02 h3r1n6 wrote: Everything is banned in proper (european :D) comp play. Vanilla weapons and the original 3 medic unlocks are the only things allowed. Everything else has at best a questionable effect on the game. Most of it is either too bad to even use, has a terrible effect on the game or is just overpowered.
Basically, if you want to learn how to play the game properly, use the vanilla unlock. Everything else mostly just dumbs it down.
Wait...they even banned the Axetinguisher and Equalizer? What the hell?
To play the game somewhat competently, a few classes need their unlocks. For example, Pyro needs the Axetinguisher and, nowadays, the Degreaser [the Backburner sometimes works, but not as reliably]. And Medic needs his Ubersaw.
Medic gets the ubersaw.
Plus the current ETF2L ruleset allows a crapload of unlocks. But next season is highly likely gonna be Vanilla+medlocks.
The main use of a pyro is for airblast anyway. You can still use that with the normal flamethrower 100% fine. The axtinguisher is an unlock I would not really be against, but in the end the weapon does not matter that much (at a competent level at least).
The equalizer makes solly way easier positionally, and let's you escape situations you shouldn't be in. Furthermore it dumbs down the rollout, since one solly can just run to middle, and its way easier for the medic to get everyone buffed. It doesn't add any skill to solly, everyone can press 3 and then just run away. So yeah, equalizer gets banned. I currently play soldier as my main class btw.
One of the main point of playing vanilla is to have a clean game with a simple ruleset. If you start allowing one weapon for one class, you can make exceptions for the other classes as well. Medic is the only exception, since his unlocks were the best thought out, have a good effect on the game and add something to the class this game revolves around the most.
Edit: I don't want to turn this thread into the crappy discussion that has taken place on the TF2 sites for ages. If you want to cry about vanilla ruleset, send me a pm and I explain you why it's better
Then don't make claims that none of the items are interesting- clearly most people think that they are because if you walk into a random pub, almost no one is using a complete stock set of items. There's a difference between realizing that items are restricted in competitive play for a reason and saying none of them are interesting because of your personal preference.
Also, the kritz, the ubersaw, and the blutsauger are just as "stupid" as any other unlocks. The ubersaw and blutsauger are both clear upgrades over their counterparts, which is pretty rare.
My absolute favorite setup playing as spy is the saharen spy set (Letranger, eternal reward) as well as a dead ringer. It is so damn fun to play in pubs because with the saharen spy set the DR's decloak sound (which is a fucking LOUD zapping sound) is muted entirely. This leads to some really amazing backstab streaks, as well as a VERY good escape mechanism (DR). The only annoying thing is pyros.
Once I get back from China (July 11), does anyone want to trade items? i have almost every weapon as well as a few hats, and I'd be interested in the new weapons, purely for collection's sake.
On July 04 2011 09:42 zer0das wrote: Then don't make claims that none of the items are interesting- clearly most people think that they are because if you walk into a random pub, almost no one is using a complete stock set of items. There's a difference between realizing that items are restricted in competitive play for a reason and saying none of them are interesting because of your personal preference.
Also, the kritz, the ubersaw, and the blutsauger are just as "stupid" as any other unlocks. The ubersaw and blutsauger are both clear upgrades over their counterparts, which is pretty rare.
The blutsauger isn't really used, since it is inferior in it's current state (was upgrade in earlier patches though). The ubersaw is an upgrade, but adds a really nice risk reward to the medic.
Yes, its my opinion that the unlocks aren't interesting and thats not the reason why they are banned. Some people find call of duty interesting, so whatever.
On July 04 2011 09:23 h3r1n6 wrote: Plus the current ETF2L ruleset allows a crapload of unlocks. But next season is highly likely gonna be Vanilla+medlocks.
The main use of a pyro is for airblast anyway. You can still use that with the normal flamethrower 100% fine. The axtinguisher is an unlock I would not really be against, but in the end the weapon does not matter that much (at a competent level at least).
Err...airblast is sadly the Pyro's main (and in competitive, only) duty, but without the Axetinguisher, he can't do anything else even halfway competently. It's not like he's remotely even with the mainline classes with the Axetinguisher...
Do you actually use puff and sting with the normal flamethrower? It's so slow and unreliable
Your Equalizer complaint I actually agree with, it's just that I have yet to hear of it banned anywhere else.
On July 04 2011 09:23 h3r1n6 wrote:One of the main point of playing vanilla is to have a clean game with a simple ruleset. If you start allowing one weapon for one class, you can make exceptions for the other classes as well. Medic is the only exception, since his unlocks were the best thought out, have a good effect on the game and add something to the class this game revolves around the most.
You've pointed it out yourself; they already started down the slippery slope. If they're going to add weapons to the ruleset based on the effect on the game and how well-thought out they are, why not add other weapons that are equally well thought-out? The ubersaw is already worse in this regard than several non-Medic items in this game (seriously, +25% charge every hit in melee?). If you're going to ask for risk-reward, there's plenty of other weapons that add that, too.
I guess some people find the TF2 EU proleague interesting. I guess. Whatever. NA's more fun to watch whenever I see TF2, but I can't say I follow the competitive stuff regularly. I just play the game for fun.
On July 04 2011 10:00 KtheZ wrote: My absolute favorite setup playing as spy is the saharen spy set (Letranger, eternal reward) as well as a dead ringer. It is so damn fun to play in pubs because with the saharen spy set the DR's decloak sound (which is a fucking LOUD zapping sound) is muted entirely. This leads to some really amazing backstab streaks, as well as a VERY good escape mechanism (DR). The only annoying thing is pyros.
Once I get back from China (July 11), does anyone want to trade items? i have almost every weapon as well as a few hats, and I'd be interested in the new weapons, purely for collection's sake.
On July 04 2011 04:10 Garrl wrote: ETF2L premiership finals (TT vs TCM) are going on in 5 mins. Either casted in the first stream or with team comms for TCM on the second.
One of the most amazing series of games I've ever seen. Even if your just enjoying public TF2 I strongly recommend you watch these VoDs. Superclose games, great casting and camerawork. Theres been a lot of QQ about this league, about how TF2 is dying blah blah blah, and then you get these incredible finals. Truly remarkable.
If you want to play TF2 in a more organised fashion a good place to start is http://tf2lobby.com/ Highlander (1 of each class) and 6v6 (2 Soldiers, 2 Scouts, 1 demo, 1medic) is played there. Anybody can join a game, the skill level is generally quite low although you will be expected to know the basics, especially in 6v6.
On July 04 2011 16:48 DexVitality wrote: Hmmm I liked Team Fortress Classic way better, I bought TF2 and the game style has just changed so much. And the graphics turn me off ==
I searched but probably failed. Anyone know how to join a game with your friends and stay on the same team? I found the 'join game' button, but it splits the teams up and sometimes you can't switch
On July 04 2011 20:48 specjr wrote: I searched but probably failed. Anyone know how to join a game with your friends and stay on the same team? I found the 'join game' button, but it splits the teams up and sometimes you can't switch
thats arena mode. you cant pick your team in that mode. default button to switch teams is . btw (dot)
I'm playing Pyro mainly atm and I'm pretty pleased by my results in pub games, but I have some questions. 1. I'm using the degreaser as my flammethrower, should I use the Powerjack or the Axtinguisher? 2. With the rapid weapon switch rate of the degreaser I'm using the flare gun to make some long range snipes against Snipes or camping Demomans (especially on 2fort), but I have problems in Pyro vs Pyro, when the opposing Pyro has a Shotgun, in which situations should I switch between Flare Gun and Shotgun?
offtopic: I traded by strange shotgun, because I thought it was a crappy default weapon -.- Thanks in advance
On July 04 2011 21:32 FinnGamer wrote: I'm playing Pyro mainly atm and I'm pretty pleased by my results in pub games, but I have some questions. 1. I'm using the degreaser as my flammethrower, should I use the Powerjack or the Axtinguisher? 2. With the rapid weapon switch rate of the degreaser I'm using the flare gun to make some long range snipes against Snipes or camping Demomans (especially on 2fort), but I have problems in Pyro vs Pyro, when the opposing Pyro has a Shotgun, in which situations should I switch between Flare Gun and Shotgun?
offtopic: I traded by strange shotgun, because I thought it was a crappy default weapon -.- Thanks in advance
1. axtinguisher. no other weapon should be used 2. whoever has the shotgun wins in pyro vs pyro.
as a pyro just focus on spy checking.. if the opposing team doesnt have a spy you should actually just switch to demo/soldier if you want to be a damage dealer
I have a strange direct hit that I'm hoping to trade for a strange rocket launcher. If any of you fine gentlemen would be interested in such a transaction please pm me.
On July 04 2011 10:00 KtheZ wrote: My absolute favorite setup playing as spy is the saharen spy set (Letranger, eternal reward) as well as a dead ringer. It is so damn fun to play in pubs because with the saharen spy set the DR's decloak sound (which is a fucking LOUD zapping sound) is muted entirely. This leads to some really amazing backstab streaks, as well as a VERY good escape mechanism (DR). The only annoying thing is pyros.
Once I get back from China (July 11), does anyone want to trade items? i have almost every weapon as well as a few hats, and I'd be interested in the new weapons, purely for collection's sake.
FUCK that build. It is essentially impossible to kill the spy if you don't have a good pyro trying to be everywhere at once. Easily the most annoying thing that I have encountered thus far in TF2.
On July 04 2011 21:32 FinnGamer wrote: I'm playing Pyro mainly atm and I'm pretty pleased by my results in pub games, but I have some questions. 1. I'm using the degreaser as my flammethrower, should I use the Powerjack or the Axtinguisher? 2. With the rapid weapon switch rate of the degreaser I'm using the flare gun to make some long range snipes against Snipes or camping Demomans (especially on 2fort), but I have problems in Pyro vs Pyro, when the opposing Pyro has a Shotgun, in which situations should I switch between Flare Gun and Shotgun?
offtopic: I traded by strange shotgun, because I thought it was a crappy default weapon -.- Thanks in advance
1. Axtinguisher as the above said, just too easy of a combo. Shoot flames, airblast, axe
2. Some would say whoever goes Pyro wins, but I'm a personal fan of the flaregun. Though, using it to kill snipers is not really its intention (and you'll find yourself being at a huge disadvantage, naturally).
The flaregun is used for scurring enemies or enemies coming towards you, once they do: light them up and do it again for a critical or axtinguish them. As for the pyro vs. pyro, you can easily bypass the opponent with the shotgun by continuously juking them and airblasting + flaregun. The Airblast keeps them in a predictable back/upward path, making flaregunning easy. Since you have the degreaser, the switch is even faster.
I've killed many pyros this way. Keep your distance and kite them.
On July 04 2011 16:48 DexVitality wrote: Hmmm I liked Team Fortress Classic way better, I bought TF2 and the game style has just changed so much. And the graphics turn me off ==
On July 04 2011 21:32 FinnGamer wrote: I'm playing Pyro mainly atm and I'm pretty pleased by my results in pub games, but I have some questions. 1. I'm using the degreaser as my flammethrower, should I use the Powerjack or the Axtinguisher? 2. With the rapid weapon switch rate of the degreaser I'm using the flare gun to make some long range snipes against Snipes or camping Demomans (especially on 2fort), but I have problems in Pyro vs Pyro, when the opposing Pyro has a Shotgun, in which situations should I switch between Flare Gun and Shotgun?
offtopic: I traded by strange shotgun, because I thought it was a crappy default weapon -.- Thanks in advance
Axtinguisher is better, its easy to light someone on fire then finish them with the axe. Also, something to keep in mind when it is pyro vs pyro- whoever is backpedaling has a larger cone of flames (essentially the doppler effect). Doesn't factor in against most classes, but it is possible to do damage without taking much in return against pyros if you backpedal.
I thought shotgun was for those who can't aim and the flaregun for the opposite.
I also hate the detonator. The mini-crit bonus if you hit someone already on fire is fine, but the flaregun jump is so pointless on most maps. Too situational when you can get full criticals with the normal flare.
On July 05 2011 03:52 Torte de Lini wrote: I thought shotgun was for those who can't aim and the flaregun for the opposite.
I also hate the detonator. The mini-crit bonus if you hit someone already on fire is fine, but the flaregun jump is so pointless on most maps. Too situational when you can get full criticals with the normal flare.
If you're blowing up snipers with the flaregun, they're just bad snipers.
Shotgun-Degreaser-Axestinguisher is the best setup, I have switched to the Homewrecker when the other team is attacking, has more than 3 Spies and I am the only Pyro.
I honestly thing the Shotgun is negligible. The mid to short-range of it is purposeless considering your speed and your first weapon handles both of those issues.
On July 05 2011 06:06 Torte de Lini wrote: I honestly thing the Shotgun is negligible. The mid to short-range of it is purposeless considering your speed and your first weapon handles both of those issues.
It's your only hope against a Scout/Pyro/Shield-Demos. You will kill a Scout before they kill you if you can aim, Demo-shields just literally die to you without any effort, Pyro-Pyro fights are just whoever has better aim.
Demoshields = Flaregun or flamethrower + Axtinguisher. He's not running sticky bombs and rolling bombs are easily deflectable or to be dodged.
As for scout, he shouldn't be getting close to you at all unless he has amazing maneuverability. At mid to long-range the flaregun is still feasible against scount (and they'll back off after the first shot too).
On July 05 2011 06:16 Torte de Lini wrote: Demoshields = Flaregun or flamethrower + Axtinguisher. He's not running sticky bombs and rolling bombs are easily deflectable or to be dodged.
As for scout, he shouldn't be getting close to you at all unless he has amazing maneuverability. At mid to long-range the flaregun is still feasible against scount (and they'll back off after the first shot too).
If you're hitting Scouts with Flaregun, you're playing against some really bad Scouts, I'll be happy to run around Pyros with a Flaregun and just take minimal damage from the Flamethrower. Close-ranged Demos can nail you and beat you with the Launcher, you do next to no damage to them outside of the Axestinguisher.
I don't know if they're bad, over my years of playing. I've played a wide array of scouts, so maybe they're bad or maybe I'm engaging at correct points of the map.
If you can't reflect or keep your distance from a demo, you're going to be in a lot of trouble. No demo should be engaging you at close range (why should they when the range of their rolling bombs is so good). They should be taking advantage of corners, really tight areas and shooting from a relative distance.
If he goes shield, just light him, let him charge away or towards you and just axtinguish him. You're the direct counter to the demoman o_o
On July 05 2011 06:39 Torte de Lini wrote: I don't know if they're bad, over my years of playing. I've played a wide array of scouts, so maybe they're bad or maybe I'm engaging at correct points of the map.
If you can't reflect or keep your distance from a demo, you're going to be in a lot of trouble. No demo should be engaging you at close range (why should they when the range of their rolling bombs is so good). They should be taking advantage of corners, really tight areas and shooting from a relative distance.
If he goes shield, just light him, let him charge away or towards you and just axtinguish him. You're the direct counter to the demoman o_o
You are not the direct counter to demoman simply because the demo's stickies fire at a quicker rate than you can airblast and he can actually trade with your flamethrower at melee range. The direct counter to Demo is literally the Scout.
Demos can take advantage of the same tactics that you would use as a Pyro, except they have more HP, they're not going to be relying on the Launcher till much later in the progression of a fight. Like they want to be close if they're using the Targe, if they're not, then they're just playing it wrong.
They're bad Scouts, no reason why a Pyro should beat a Scout in reasonable situations.
I think you're just being stubborn. You are the direct to demo. Demo is the counter to scout considering their maneuverability and speed is negated by the AOE damage, range and health of the demoman.You would also Heavy denies scouts of their heavy damage, Health and effectiveness at equal close range.
The pyro is the direct counter to the demoman because of the airblasts (And if you want, you can run shotgun which destroys stickies as well). I think the bad demos are the ones that use one sticky at a time in a form of an offensive measure than a defensive restraining measure.
Nice to see so much pyro love, most people hate them. I roll with: Degreaser- Fast weapon switch is worth so much more than a slight increase in afterburn damage Flaregun - Ill take shotgun if they have a lot of pyros, i think the 2 options are fairly similar in quality in all but 1 area: Fun. The flaregun is so much more fun, hitting those long distance crits on burning medic, puff and flare instead of puff and sting, trolling snipers, lighting spies long distance. I also think its good for killing classes that would slip away if you miss/have no ammo for airblast to axe them. Axetinquisher - Pretty much a straight upgrade to the fireaxe. Except on sudden death melee, then its awkward. Love pyro, its my favourite class, high skill ceiling, need to use all 3 weapons you carry at a moments notice to maximise your potential, hitting the skill based (not random) crits is rewarding. Also airblast. If youve never got a reflected burning huntsman arrow headshot, youve never REALLY played TF2!
On July 05 2011 06:57 Torte de Lini wrote: I think you're just being stubborn. You are the direct to demo. Demo is the counter to scout considering their maneuverability and speed is negated by the AOE damage, range and health of the demoman.You would also Heavy denies scouts of their heavy damage, Health and effectiveness at equal close range.
This is kinda incoherent so I'm not sure if you seriously mean demos counter scouts... scout CRUSHES demo with reasonably even positioning, if the scout loses it's because he screwed up.
As far as pyro vs demo goes at close range it depends on whether you airblast the first pipe or not - that's partially guesswork and partially ping, airblasts are not lag compensated. If you don't airblast the pipe he'll just stick a really easy airshot and you die, nothing you can do about it.
The pyro is the direct counter to the demoman because of the airblasts (And if you want, you can run shotgun which destroys stickies as well). I think the bad demos are the ones that use one sticky at a time in a form of an offensive measure than a defensive restraining measure.
I just... what? Are you just messing with judicator's head or something?
Sure, bad scouts.
Pyro has a horrible horrible matchup vs scouts, if you are beating scouts with pyro that is 100% because the scouts are awful, or you caught them in a tiny space... probably both. Even if you have good positioning on a scout if he plays well he can usually trade with you.
On July 05 2011 06:57 Torte de Lini wrote: I think you're just being stubborn. You are the direct to demo. Demo is the counter to scout considering their maneuverability and speed is negated by the AOE damage, range and health of the demoman.You would also Heavy denies scouts of their heavy damage, Health and effectiveness at equal close range.
The pyro is the direct counter to the demoman because of the airblasts (And if you want, you can run shotgun which destroys stickies as well). I think the bad demos are the ones that use one sticky at a time in a form of an offensive measure than a defensive restraining measure.
Sure, bad scouts.
Not even close. Universal already covered what I was going to say.
Ahahaha, bad demoman use their stickies offensively. That might be the most absolutely wrong statement I've ever seen about TF2. Stickies are and always have been the best offensive weapon in the game.
Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
Don't you wonder why the sticky bomb launcher is replaced by the shield if desired?
Torte, you don't have even the basic understanding of the class matchups a pubstar does, there's not really much to say except that your understanding of how the game works is completely contrary to how it actually does if a modicum of skill is involved.
I have played the game competitively on a decent team, I have played in pubs, I have never seen such silly opinions.
Ok, take what other people said, they are correct, you are wrong. How much more enlightenment do you expect me to bring you? If the game is seriously playing out in the way you're describing it's because your opponents are absolutely retarded, anyone with skill would crush the tactics you've described.
Tell me why I am wrong in my follow-up of arguments. You're just repeating your stance which doesn't help.
Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
Don't you wonder why the sticky bomb launcher is replaced by the shield if desired?
Here you go. I'll agree I'm wrong when I understand your point of view. For now I see mine as still plausible and equally or possibly correct without the need to cite my experience competitively or publicly or to bash other players.
On July 05 2011 07:26 Blacktion wrote: Nice to see so much pyro love, most people hate them. I roll with: Degreaser- Fast weapon switch is worth so much more than a slight increase in afterburn damage Flaregun - Ill take shotgun if they have a lot of pyros, i think the 2 options are fairly similar in quality in all but 1 area: Fun. The flaregun is so much more fun, hitting those long distance crits on burning medic, puff and flare instead of puff and sting, trolling snipers, lighting spies long distance. I also think its good for killing classes that would slip away if you miss/have no ammo for airblast to axe them. Axetinquisher - Pretty much a straight upgrade to the fireaxe. Except on sudden death melee, then its awkward. Love pyro, its my favourite class, high skill ceiling, need to use all 3 weapons you carry at a moments notice to maximise your potential, hitting the skill based (not random) crits is rewarding. Also airblast. If youve never got a reflected burning huntsman arrow headshot, youve never REALLY played TF2!
Wait, are you trying to say that puff and sting is hard when you're using the weapon designed to make it even easier than it already is with the vanilla flamethrower?
On July 05 2011 07:26 Blacktion wrote: Nice to see so much pyro love, most people hate them. I roll with: Degreaser- Fast weapon switch is worth so much more than a slight increase in afterburn damage Flaregun - Ill take shotgun if they have a lot of pyros, i think the 2 options are fairly similar in quality in all but 1 area: Fun. The flaregun is so much more fun, hitting those long distance crits on burning medic, puff and flare instead of puff and sting, trolling snipers, lighting spies long distance. I also think its good for killing classes that would slip away if you miss/have no ammo for airblast to axe them. Axetinquisher - Pretty much a straight upgrade to the fireaxe. Except on sudden death melee, then its awkward. Love pyro, its my favourite class, high skill ceiling, need to use all 3 weapons you carry at a moments notice to maximise your potential, hitting the skill based (not random) crits is rewarding. Also airblast. If youve never got a reflected burning huntsman arrow headshot, youve never REALLY played TF2!
Wait, are you trying to say that puff and sting is hard when you're using the weapon designed to make it even easier than it already is with the vanilla flamethrower?
On July 05 2011 08:58 Torte de Lini wrote:Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
You throw them under their feet, after you land the first one they can't effectively fight you because you have control over their movement. It's not hard to do, if your aim sucks really bad I guess it's not viable but that's a problem with your mechanics.
At close range you use pipes because of the detonation delay on stickies.
At every other range you use stickies because you can.
It has nothing to do with defense or offense.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
You pop people up in the air when using them offensively as well.
Here you go. I'll agree I'm wrong when I understand your point of view. For now I see mine as still plausible and equally or possibly correct without the need to cite my experience competitively or publicly or to bash other players.
well, I'm not really bashing you, it's just that you have no idea what you're talking about and I don't really see any reason to pretend you do lol
On July 05 2011 07:26 Blacktion wrote: Nice to see so much pyro love, most people hate them. I roll with: Degreaser- Fast weapon switch is worth so much more than a slight increase in afterburn damage Flaregun - Ill take shotgun if they have a lot of pyros, i think the 2 options are fairly similar in quality in all but 1 area: Fun. The flaregun is so much more fun, hitting those long distance crits on burning medic, puff and flare instead of puff and sting, trolling snipers, lighting spies long distance. I also think its good for killing classes that would slip away if you miss/have no ammo for airblast to axe them. Axetinquisher - Pretty much a straight upgrade to the fireaxe. Except on sudden death melee, then its awkward. Love pyro, its my favourite class, high skill ceiling, need to use all 3 weapons you carry at a moments notice to maximise your potential, hitting the skill based (not random) crits is rewarding. Also airblast. If youve never got a reflected burning huntsman arrow headshot, youve never REALLY played TF2!
Wait, are you trying to say that puff and sting is hard when you're using the weapon designed to make it even easier than it already is with the vanilla flamethrower?
What do you mean?
Puff and sting was the easiest damn thing to do when the pyro update first started. I made playing pyro far too easy and one dimensional. The fact that they added a weapon purely designed to make such an easy thing even easier is just stupid. The degreaser is an unnecessary weapon that only takes the small amount of skill away from puff and sting.
On July 05 2011 08:58 Torte de Lini wrote:Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
You throw them under their feet, after you land the first one they can't effectively fight you because you have control over their movement. It's not hard to do, if your aim sucks really bad I guess it's not viable but that's a problem with your mechanics.
At close range you use pipes because of the detonation delay on stickies.
At every other range you use stickies because you can.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
You pop people up in the air when using them offensively as well.
Here you go. I'll agree I'm wrong when I understand your point of view. For now I see mine as still plausible and equally or possibly correct without the need to cite my experience competitively or publicly or to bash other players.
well, I'm not really bashing you, it's just that you have no idea what you're talking about and I don't really see any reason to pretend you do lol
No, I think I do, but you do make sense as well. It is a question of defense and offense as well though (at long-rage, you can use stickies, but we both know there's a delay, which renders it rather pointless offensively against Pyros, defensively, perhaps especially to start preemptively laying at the first CP, a.k.a defensively to restrict movement or paths for the other team. this is an example). I don't even see how Pyros aren't the direct counter to demos, which is what this was essentially about? All other classes have to rely on bullets to destroy sticky bombs if they land close to your feet (Something not possible). Pyros can disperse them and avoid the first one landing at your feet.
On July 05 2011 08:58 Torte de Lini wrote:Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
You throw them under their feet, after you land the first one they can't effectively fight you because you have control over their movement. It's not hard to do, if your aim sucks really bad I guess it's not viable but that's a problem with your mechanics.
At close range you use pipes because of the detonation delay on stickies.
At every other range you use stickies because you can.
It has nothing to do with defense or offense.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
You pop people up in the air when using them offensively as well.
Here you go. I'll agree I'm wrong when I understand your point of view. For now I see mine as still plausible and equally or possibly correct without the need to cite my experience competitively or publicly or to bash other players.
well, I'm not really bashing you, it's just that you have no idea what you're talking about and I don't really see any reason to pretend you do lol
No, I think I do, but you do make sense as well. It is a question of defense and offense as well though (at long-rage, you can use stickies, but we both know there's a delay, which renders it rather pointless offensively against Pyros,
At long range, they're not fighting.
At mid range, if a demo can't shut down a pyro trying to approach him his mechanics are poor or his positioning is bad, there is just no way around this.
If stickies are bad vs pyros in your experience it's because the demomen you play with/against have horrible mechanics. I'm not gonna try to beat this into your head anymore, pyro only wins vs demo, given some skill, if the pyro starts out close, and even then it's only an even matchup.
A demoman will generally crush a pyro, except if the pyro manages to get really close to the demoman in which case you'll usually be able to axe combo, reflect pipe or both blow up from stickies.
Torte, you don't use rollers to combat pyros. They will simply airblast them away and keep on going so what you want to do as a demoman is to spam stickies at the pyro. Put down a sticky or two between you and the pyro and start spamming stickies as fast as you can. Reflecting air-burst stickies without taking damage is extremely difficult and once there's some stickies between you and your target there's pretty much nothing you can do about it except trying to push them closer to the demoman, which takes a lot of time. Pipes are very dangerous to use vs pyros so either use thm at medium range where you have a chance to dodge the reflect or close enough that he has to pre-fire his airblast to have a chance of reacting in time. The sticky launcher is the best weapon in the game. It was designed to be a defensive weapon, but due to its short priming-time it works just as well offensively and is indeed a weapon that can deal with everything in the game, perhaps short of close-range aerial threats
Targe demos are pretty much perfectly countered by a pyro though. Airblast can neutralize pipes, targe and melee, and if it ever comes to a melee fight your axe does 195 damage and his does 46 or something laughable like that.
Oh, did I suggest Demos to use rolling bombs on Pyros? I don't think I did but I'll have to go back and check. Everything the demoman has can be reflected and if they go charge, it's just a simple left MB, Right MB to a wall and Axtinguish (which you mentioned).
I say the Pyro is a considerable counter to the Demo because the demoman cannot easily kill it and the Pyro can easily negate the uses of the demo (to a certain extent like all classes).
I'm seeing classes as taking each other out and the difficulty or ease to get away or survive against.
On July 05 2011 09:27 Torte de Lini wrote: Oh, did I suggest Demos to use rolling bombs on Pyros? I don't think I did but I'll have to go back and check. Everything the demoman has can be reflected and if they go charge, it's just a simple left MB, Right MB to a wall and Axtinguish (which you mentioned).
I say the Pyro is a considerable counter to the Demo because the demoman cannot easily kill it and the Pyro can easily negate the uses of the demo (to a certain extent like all classes).
I'm seeing classes as taking each other out and the difficulty or ease to get away or survive against.
Rofl, Demos getting cornered by a Pyro are what we call BAD.
Torte, it's literally one of those it looks good on paper, but horrible in practice kind of things.
Also, by your logic, every class is counter to another, which makes this entire discussion a giant waste of time.
There's nothing really more to say to you when you won't be civilized. I've never made antagonizing or remarks about you personally or your views, but you're quick to do so several times.
Also, by your logic, every class is counter to another, which makes this entire discussion a giant waste of time.
No, but to explain would to give you a respect you stopped granting me. Just continue with your claim and move on please since apparently you don't want to engage with this discussion at all.
On July 05 2011 09:37 Torte de Lini wrote: Where did I say they get cornered by a Pyro?
There's nothing really more to say to you when you won't be civilized. I've never made antagonizing or remarks about you personally or your views, but you're quick to do so several times.
Also, by your logic, every class is counter to another, which makes this entire discussion a giant waste of time.
No, but to explain would to give you a respect you stopped granting me. Just continue with your claim and move on please since apparently you don't want to engage with this discussion at all.
Notice when I said a Demo being cornered, I meant figuratively not literally.
Look, I'll just come out and say what's on everyone's mind:
You made a claim, got called out for it, now you are trying weasel your way out of it. Notice there hasn't been single person to support ANY of your original claims. Don't even try to pin this on anyone else when all you have done in the past few posts has been anything but a discussion. The discussion effectively ended when Universal posted the rebuttal.
Now, notice the common theme among everyone who's been critical of your original points is that your understanding of the game is at a low level, therefore making any of your points made to defend your claims a complete wash.
You cemented the notion just as much when you claimed Stickies were primarily defensive in nature...then attempted to justify the notion by saying an unlock-able item replaces the Sticky Launcher.
Also notice that nobody is supporting your claims. Surely if you were right in any regards, people would say something.
So do everyone a favor and quietly stop spewing non-sense.
Edit:
You are also not reading people's close enough. There are problems in the situations you are describing and you simply aren't aware of them.
How am I weaseling out when I'm still making my same claim and same arguments? Others have approached me differently than you have and I even show open-mindedness to agree once I understand, which I said as well while also detailing my original and still valid points.
Again,
There's nothing really more to say to you when you won't be civilized. I've never made antagonizing or remarks about you personally or your views, but you're quick to do so several times.
Your best move is to just move on and change subjects and stop trying to vilify me. Step back, relax and stop going personal.
You are trying to weasel out of the claim that Demos are countered by Pyros by broadening the term countered. You also tried to make the claim that Demos beat Scouts or rather Scouts are not the counter to Demos, but that was promptly shot down.
This honestly ties back to this interaction:
On July 05 2011 09:23 UniversalSnip wrote: If stickies are bad vs pyros in your experience it's because the demomen you play with/against have horrible mechanics. I'm not gonna try to beat this into your head anymore, pyro only wins vs demo, given some skill, if the pyro starts out close, and even then it's only an even matchup.
Which you promptly respond with this:
On July 05 2011 09:27 Torte de Lini wrote: Oh, did I suggest Demos to use rolling bombs on Pyros? I don't think I did but I'll have to go back and check. Everything the demoman has can be reflected and if they go charge, it's just a simple left MB, Right MB to a wall and Axtinguish (which you mentioned).
I say the Pyro is a considerable counter to the Demo because the demoman cannot easily kill it and the Pyro can easily negate the uses of the demo (to a certain extent like all classes).
I'm seeing classes as taking each other out and the difficulty or ease to get away or survive against.
Both points have been discussed to the death. Yet, you want to hang on to your misconceptions for whatever reason, because you are attempting to play this out in your head. Like it doesn't get more direct than what Universal posted, yet you want to hang on to what you *think*, which has already been proven to unreliable.
To make it clear for you, the Airblast isn't a solve-all, it's not even a significant advantage, for the Pyro in the Pyro vs. Demo match-up.
Edit:
Actually, you know what, just to humor you, how do you play a Demo?
No, I still hold on to the claim of that Pyros counter Demos, where you see otherwise is a misinterpretation on your part. It was said that if demos get the first sticky off the pyro, then the pyro is pretty much dead, but that is sound to almost every class but the scout (who can double-jump in mid-air, but even then, an anticipatory demo will easy shoot where he's going to land or towards the scouts exits).
At long-range, the demo can't touch the pyro, at medium-range is what we're talking about and at short-range, it's said that the pyro wins if it gets close.
Where's the weaseling?
How the airblast isn't a significant advantage is still something not comprehensible for me.
Close-ranged Demos can nail you and beat you with the Launcher, you do next to no damage to them outside of the Axestinguisher.
From you which is parallel to what I was saying. Left click, right-click, axtinguish.
On July 05 2011 10:45 ploy wrote: There's a reason you will never see a pyro in competitive play. They are terrible in all practical situations.
when i played there were a few specific tricks you could run that involved a pyro sneaking around a back route and diving the medic at a specific timing at the start of a round. It was a suicide though, if you lived you might as well just class switch and eat the death timer to be a scout for the next fight
On July 05 2011 10:57 Torte de Lini wrote: No, I still hold on to the claim of that Pyros counter Demos, where you see otherwise is a misinterpretation on your part. It was said that if demos get the first sticky off the pyro, then the pyro is pretty much dead, but that is sound to almost every class but the scout (who can double-jump in mid-air, but even then, an anticipatory demo will easy shoot where he's going to land or towards the scouts exits).
At long-range, the demo can't touch the pyro, at medium-range is what we're talking about and at short-range, it's said that the pyro wins if it gets close.
Where's the weaseling?
How the airblast isn't a significant advantage is still something not comprehensible for me.
Okay, fair enough, demos can land 2 stickies in the time it takes you airblast once, the airblast can NOT keep up with the sticky launcher's rate of fire.
If you want to have airblast you need the flamethrower out, then you have to hope to god you react to their stickies effectively. It's also not hard for the Demo to pop you up, even in the worst case scenario, the Demo controls where you are moving, if the Demo is not, then the Demo is bad or is in a bad situation. It's hard to describe in words, but very easy to see in videos. Just watch some and you'll see how a Demo really limits the movement of every class except Spies and Scouts.
At close range, it's a crapshoot, he can trade with you. Airblast isn't effective at preventing splash damage at this range. You can die just as easily as him.
On July 05 2011 10:45 ploy wrote: There's a reason you will never see a pyro in competitive play. They are terrible in all practical situations.
We run a Pyro quite regularly when defending last, especially on Badlands and with disadvantages in ubercharge. They are great at not letting ubered people in.
Also, you guys gotta realize that saying class X counters Y is like comparing SC unit matchups. For example Marines counter Mutas. Sure, they do good against them when both are attack moved, but depending on the micro, the mutas can win that. Brood War Mutalisks can at least :D
Scouts generally have the advantage over demomen, but 2 nicely aimed pipes and the demoman wins. Pyro is indeed pretty hard against demo. When the demo uses pipes, its easy, when he is good with stickies, it can get really hard. Although it is pretty easy for a pyro to back out of that fight.
You mean when the Scout makes it stupidly obvious where he's going to land and uses up his options too quickly, the Demo wins, otherwise you are just guessing
On July 05 2011 11:20 Judicator wrote: You mean when the Scout makes it stupidly obvious where he's going to land and uses up his options too quickly, the Demo wins, otherwise you are just guessing
Going to land? It can be quite easy to hit a double jumping scout. Plus, after scout wasted the double jump, the first pipe hitting can bounce him up, which makes the second pipe an easy hit. Or the pipe can hit his head and the scout slams into the ground, dying from fall damage
It also depends highly on the terrain. The wider the area and the more obstacles in it, the better the scout is off. If the scout can get close, the demoman is dead. 1 Meatshot+self damage from one pipe can kill a demoman, although that is not likely. The second scattergun shot will kill the demo though.
On July 05 2011 11:20 Judicator wrote: You mean when the Scout makes it stupidly obvious where he's going to land and uses up his options too quickly, the Demo wins, otherwise you are just guessing
Going to land? It can be quite easy to hit a double jumping scout. Plus, after scout wasted the double jump, the first pipe hitting can bounce him up, which makes the second pipe an easy hit. Or the pipe can hit his head and the scout slams into the ground, dying from fall damage
It also depends highly on the terrain. The wider the area and the more obstacles in it, the better the scout is off. If the scout can get close, the demoman is dead. 1 Meatshot+self damage from one pipe can kill a demoman, although that is not likely. The second scattergun shot will kill the demo though.
Yes, either when he hits the ground or where he is in the air. Good point on the terrain.
I really enjoy the Degreaser+Flaregun+Axtinguiser Combo, even though I have problems using airblast constructively, actually I can't do shit with the airblast. Reading the last few pages of the thread I don't know if it's worth it learning Pyro further, if, even though I'm only playing pub, it has no real use as a dmg-dealer (spy check being the only real use).
As i was advised I'm gonna focus on an other damagedealer like demo or soldier for the case that they are no spies in the othe team or I decide to play non-pub.
First of all my demoman is atrocious, compared to the other classes, so I'm gonna focus on my Pyro and Soldier for the next few weeks.
I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only? I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
On July 05 2011 20:11 FinnGamer wrote:I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only? I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
Pubs are for fun mostly. Pyro can do well in pubs, if you airblast a lot of the spam back into the groups, sneak around and set groups of people on fire and axtinguish whom you can.
On July 05 2011 20:11 FinnGamer wrote: I really enjoy the Degreaser+Flaregun+Axtinguiser Combo, even though I have problems using airblast constructively, actually I can't do shit with the airblast. Reading the last few pages of the thread I don't know if it's worth it learning Pyro further, if, even though I'm only playing pub, it has no real use as a dmg-dealer (spy check being the only real use).
As i was advised I'm gonna focus on an other damagedealer like demo or soldier for the case that they are no spies in the othe team or I decide to play non-pub.
First of all my demoman is atrocious, compared to the other classes, so I'm gonna focus on my Pyro and Soldier for the next few weeks.
I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only? I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
It's really up to you how many classes you want to play. Some people like to play everything, others focus mainly on a couple of classes. Personally, I've always used all the classes because I like the variety. All I will say is show a little consideration for other players and don't pick a class if there are three people on your team playing it already.
As for pyro, it's perfectly fine for pub play. It just doesn't work as well in competitive play for a few reasons. One, the teams are smaller, which works against the pyro because it gives players more room and the pyro is a close-quarters class. Two, the pyro favours ambushes, which are much harder against a small, well-organised team. Finally, the pyro isn't all that mobile. It's no coincidence that the standard 6v6 team make-up is also the fastest moving set of classes that the rules allow you to select.
No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time.
On July 05 2011 23:23 Tobberoth wrote: No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time.
Spying in competitive play is infinitely harder than playing on a pub with pyros.
On July 05 2011 23:23 Tobberoth wrote: No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time.
If you have trouble avoiding pyros there's not a chance in hell you'd be landing any stabs in a competitive match. Against a team of six who are all on teamspeak together and make a point of knowing where the rest of their team are at all times, you have very little chance of going unnoticed.
On July 05 2011 08:46 Torte de Lini wrote: Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
Don't you wonder why the sticky bomb launcher is replaced by the shield if desired?
You keep talking about "intent," but intent of weapon design has no bearing on it in practical use. Stickies are the best damage weapon with good range and can be detonated mid air, unlike any other weapon. The fact that the shield replaces it is because if the shield replaced the pipe launcher demo would be so abhorrently overpowered it wouldn't be funny. Have you ever seen a competitive demo play a serious match? I absolutely, 100% guarantee you they are using stickies offensively. For instance, when you uber a demoman, what weapon do you want him using? Why the weapon with the best chance at hitting the enemy (mid air detonations), have the most damage output (8 shots instead of 4, faster reloading, only slightly less damage per shot), and can even be used to increase mobility!
Stickies are the BEST offensive weapon in the game because they have no falloff, excellent accuracy through midair detonation, excellent damage, both for one or multiple targets, and can be used to juggle opponent's effortlessly. You're absolutely silly if you think a weapon with half the damage output that needs unreasonable levels of accuracy in the pipelauncher is better offensively than stickies.
and they're a very good counter to pyros at everything but close range, and it's a bad or unaware demo that let's a pyro get close to him considering their lack of mobility. At midrange, the demo's preferred range, he absolutely ruins pyros with stickies.
On July 05 2011 23:23 Tobberoth wrote: No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time.
Spying in competitive play is infinitely harder than playing on a pub with pyros.
Lol, i can imagine this now. There's only six players, both teams are completely hooked up via some form of voice chat.
"Hey buddy, I know there's a spy on the other team, but is that you standing right in front of me?" "No, i'm on the other side of the map." "Are you sure? I see you right here." "Good point.... I don't know... See if he stabs you or not."
On July 05 2011 20:11 FinnGamer wrote: I really enjoy the Degreaser+Flaregun+Axtinguiser Combo, even though I have problems using airblast constructively, actually I can't do shit with the airblast. Reading the last few pages of the thread I don't know if it's worth it learning Pyro further, if, even though I'm only playing pub, it has no real use as a dmg-dealer (spy check being the only real use).
As i was advised I'm gonna focus on an other damagedealer like demo or soldier for the case that they are no spies in the othe team or I decide to play non-pub.
First of all my demoman is atrocious, compared to the other classes, so I'm gonna focus on my Pyro and Soldier for the next few weeks.
I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only? I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
It can't be bad to play all the classes, you get a better idea of what they are capable off, and that makes you more effective at fighting that specific class. I wouldn't worry too much about what you're learning, just pick a class that you want to play, if it isn't working pick another. Eventually you'll learn them all.
Its worth learning Pyro, but because its a situational class its often better to be something else. Pyro is great at defending, guarding sentries, spychecking, knocking back ubers etc and can do ok damage as long as you can get in close, but quite often that doesn't really occur and you're better of with the versatility of a Soldier or Demoman.
Oh, and to those debating how to play Demo, he is an offfensive class. Stickies can be used defensively and are a big reason why Uber is so important, but the demoman is able to put out the most damage at medium-long range, far more so than the sollies, mostly because of airblast stickies and traps to block of retreats.
In terms of learning pyro, it can be really good at a high level on pubs.
And spies in competitive play are simply meant to capitalize on mistakes. Generally they'll try and suicide stab an inattentive medic. Or maybe demo :/
is there a way to get new guns faster or u just get them by playing a lot? also is there a way to see what level you are, what does the levels on the guns mean?
On July 06 2011 08:26 killamane wrote: is there a way to get new guns faster or u just get them by playing a lot? also is there a way to see what level you are, what does the levels on the guns mean?
The fastest way and most reliable way is to trade them for other weapons you don't need. You can also craft them, or hope to find them.
So far I've been viewing TF2 as the Mario Kart of shooters. Standard pub play is like playing Smash Bros with items on. Fun and zany, which you mostly only get from Nintendo games so props to Valve, but not something you can really take seriously as there's too much BS that can happen. Crits are one thing, but I can't think of many games that thought triple damage crits were a great idea... and due to how damage fall off works crits are often closer to 4-5 times normal damage which is more than a little bonkers. I've also yet to see a reason to not have the auto-reload when not firing option turned on. Reloading in most shooters is a decision you have to make, but seems you can interrupt it and fire at any time in TF2.
Looking at the competitive side... it hasn't really grabbed me yet. Something about the standard 6v6 class setup is currently rubbing me the wrong way (though a couple videos I'm watching atm seem to mix it up a tad). Reminds me of a fighting game with a huge cast (9 classes x number of people playing) and then you end up having 90% mirror matches. Plenty of other games (especially shooters) which are practically mirror matches by design (plenty of interesting mirror matches in BW after all) though, so can't brush it aside based on that. Very uber-centric at times, which can slow it down when teams are waiting for it to charge.
I probably just need to explore the competitive ruleset a bit more... at least figure out what maps are considered decent and which ones aren't. Figured out 2fort is a shitfest when I realized almost all traffic to the intel has to go through the courtyard and one turret more or less covers it + the cheeky scout/rocket jumping routes as well. Lot of maps I've played so far seem to have that "walk through this chokepoint, no there isn't a good flank route available stop asking" design to them.
Not sure I personally agree with the "vanilla loadout" stance yet, but I'm one dude new to the game vs. a bunch of people that have put in thousands of hours tweaking/playing with rules designed to make things as fair a possible. Just more used to a "ban stuff that's proven overpowered/lopsided/has a negative impact on the gameplay - if it's weak and somebody can find a use for it, more power to 'em" mindset. Probably an explanation that can be found for that as well if I search for it a bit.
On July 06 2011 18:54 Vortok wrote: Looking at the competitive side... it hasn't really grabbed me yet. Something about the standard 6v6 class setup is currently rubbing me the wrong way (though a couple videos I'm watching atm seem to mix it up a tad). Reminds me of a fighting game with a huge cast (9 classes x number of people playing) and then you end up having 90% mirror matches. Plenty of other games (especially shooters) which are practically mirror matches by design (plenty of interesting mirror matches in BW after all) though, so can't brush it aside based on that. Very uber-centric at times, which can slow it down when teams are waiting for it to charge.
I probably just need to explore the competitive ruleset a bit more... at least figure out what maps are considered decent and which ones aren't. Figured out 2fort is a shitfest when I realized almost all traffic to the intel has to go through the courtyard and one turret more or less covers it + the cheeky scout/rocket jumping routes as well. Lot of maps I've played so far seem to have that "walk through this chokepoint, no there isn't a good flank route available stop asking" design to them.
Not sure I personally agree with the "vanilla loadout" stance yet, but I'm one dude new to the game vs. a bunch of people that have put in thousands of hours tweaking/playing with rules designed to make things as fair a possible. Just more used to a "ban stuff that's proven overpowered/lopsided/has a negative impact on the gameplay - if it's weak and somebody can find a use for it, more power to 'em" mindset. Probably an explanation that can be found for that as well if I search for it a bit.
Well, the utility classes are used less, but that depends on the map. On a map like Gullywash, some teams run full time heavy and/or full time sniper. Spies are a gamble, for when you are in a bad situation, or when you just can't break a defense, some teams use them quite frequently (we did, when we had a scout who was good at it). Least played would be pyro, only really used for defending last points. Engineer too, but engineers are often used on gravel pit.
So yeah, I'd say those classes are comparable to some of the less used units in BW. There still is the occasional use for Valkyries in TvZ, or TvT against wraiths.
As for maps, most of them are 5cp: Badlands is the essential one here, it's the Lost Temple/Python/Destination of TF2 maps. Granary Gullywash Those 3 are the most popular. There are other 5cp maps being played, like Snakewater, Yukon and Bazillion. I am working on a map called Grack. :D
As far as other game modes go, for Attack/Defend, Gravel pit is being played. CTF is played on Turbine_pro, and KotH is mostly played on Viaduct_pro. Compettive players feel the need to adjust the maps and make them pro.
Well, if you don't go Vanilla, you can either allow everything, which definately does not work. The other option is to ban some weapons, and allow the rest, or allow some weapons, and ban the rest. In either case, you'd have to make a decision for every single unlock in the game. And some players want this unlock and other players want that unlock. Couple that with different leagues using different rulesets, as it is currently and you have a mess on your hands, where you don't know what is allowed and what isn't.
Vanilla is just clean and efficient, and none of the banned unlocks really adds something to 6vs6 anyway.
Vortok have you checked out the ESEA matches they have for TF2? TF2 can be a very competitive game. There's a pretty high skill cap for it.
2 soldiers 1 Medic 1 demo 2 scouts
That's the standard 6v6 setup that you'll always see. Of course depending on what CPs are taken heavies, snipers, pyros can all come into play.
Now when I say competitive TF2 takes skill I really mean it, otherwise I wouldn't be a very good SC2 addict. The besides the ridiculous mind blowing air rockets and pills that you'll see in a frag movie, there's a lot more to competitive TF2 than just being good at hitting your opponent. Positioning, tactics, awareness, are all part of it. I'm not too well-informed about competitive TF2 but I happen to watch the commentary of official matches even before SC2 was out.
My game keeps crashing while loading a game... It says hl2.exe has stopped working, and nothing much really... I played fine for a while, then I couldn't play anymore in the evening because it crashed. Of course, I googled the problem and TONS of people are having the same problem, and it seems to be pretty common with steam-related games. I couldn't find a cookie-cutter solution though. Everybody is suggesting something different. I deleted my steam folder, then reinstalled steam + TF2 and it worked fine. I played like 6 hours straight, lose internet connection, close TF2 while reestablishing connection, reconnect, game crashes again.
Now, I know people are going to tell me to just delete everything again and reinstall, but it takes forever to download TF2 off steam. Has anything have this problem too?
Jesus, that badwater game today was enraging and soothing. I love it when the team just listens, plays together and we manage to pull a great defense on point 3 and the last point.
Just so good :3 Good job guys! (I was annoying as fuck barking suggestions and ideas).
I guess it's a little off topic from what most people on the thread are currently discussing, but I just love reading the comments where people are angry that its free. So what if you payed for it? Valve deserves it! And any claim that says that tf2 is now ruined because of f2p is absurd.
Anyway, freaking fun game, I think I've logged more hours in it than probably all other FPS games combined.. well maybe not, but probably close.
On July 07 2011 11:06 Torte de Lini wrote: Jesus, that badwater game today was enraging and soothing. I love it when the team just listens, plays together and we manage to pull a great defense on point 3 and the last point.
Just so good :3 Good job guys! (I was annoying as fuck barking suggestions and ideas).
You guys only defended cause I had leave. I was only on there for like all of 5 mins.
Wow I was checking out the competitive section of the TF2 steam forums. The casual community quite literally hates the competitive community without much reason and they don't even give a good response to the pleas of the pros in the community.
It's really sad. Imagine if Day9 was told to stfu by everyone because he was helping people to be competitive. That seems like how the competitive scene is viewed in the TF2 community. Horrible lot they are.
On July 07 2011 11:06 Torte de Lini wrote: Jesus, that badwater game today was enraging and soothing. I love it when the team just listens, plays together and we manage to pull a great defense on point 3 and the last point.
Just so good :3 Good job guys! (I was annoying as fuck barking suggestions and ideas).
You guys only defended cause I had leave. I was only on there for like all of 5 mins.
On July 08 2011 00:52 Snuggles wrote: Wow I was checking out the competitive section of the TF2 steam forums. The casual community quite literally hates the competitive community without much reason and they don't even give a good response to the pleas of the pros in the community.
It's really sad. Imagine if Day9 was told to stfu by everyone because he was helping people to be competitive. That seems like how the competitive scene is viewed in the TF2 community. Horrible lot they are.
Stay away from the SPUF. Except for the tech forum nothing good is to be found there. :/ Sadly, however, that's exactly where Valve are looking for new item ideas.
On July 07 2011 05:25 Snuggles wrote: Vortok have you checked out the ESEA matches they have for TF2?
I've watched a couple matches on youtube. Dunno if any were from ESEA or not but they were the standard 6v6 (aside from one clusterfuck on Egypt that was like... 12v12). Some of 'em were a bit old, though. Watched a year old EG vs MmM match, among others.
I think part of the problem I'm having with watching matches is that I'm not fully used to seeing everything yet + I didn't click with any the commentators I listened to. It's like when you first start watching Starcraft - you just see blobs of units hitting each other (insert BW elitist SC2 joke here). After awhile you start to see the micro and all the little adjustments (BW Muta vs. Marines dance looks very different to a new observer than it does to someone experienced with the game). So right now I mostly see Soldiers rocket jumping all over the place spamming rockets during middle fights. Perhaps later I'll see why they're rocket jumping when and where they're doing it and things like that. Team games also seem to be a bit harder to cast/spectate compared to a 1v1 like SC or a Quake Live duel.
Tried looking at the VanillaTV website, but it seems like a lot of matches on their list don't have videos. If there's a youtube channel that uploads current stuff, I wouldn't mind a link. Justin tv likes to take forever to load on my shit internet half the time I pull up an archived video there.
On July 07 2011 05:25 Snuggles wrote: Vortok have you checked out the ESEA matches they have for TF2?
Tried looking at the VanillaTV website, but it seems like a lot of matches on their list don't have videos. If there's a youtube channel that uploads current stuff, I wouldn't mind a link. Justin tv likes to take forever to load on my shit internet half the time I pull up an archived video there.
VanillaTV is pretty new, basically uniting all of europes casting. If you want some Vods, try looking at the TF2TV stuff here: http://www.own3d.tv/tf2tv
On July 08 2011 06:59 Torte de Lini wrote: Why is Arena so unpopular in TF2? It's not even in the "play now" section D: It's my favourite mode.
Arena was intensely unpopular from the moment it came out, because Valve's initial design for it always had one third of the players on a server forced to spectate, and if you've fired up TF2 to play, you don't want to have to spend all your time watching others play instead.
There are server mods now that remove the forced three team system so that everyone can play each round, but the reputation of arena mode never really recovered from the utter crapness of its default release.
On July 06 2011 07:08 Torte de Lini wrote: I hate all the new weapons to be honest. The spy's gun is pretty good and the heavy minigun is decent, but everything else is just silly and for fun.
Are you talking about the Enforcer and Tomislav? I think they're both pretty much the best for that slot atm. The Enforcer hits so fucking hard at pointblank, and the Tomislav + GRUs make Heavies actually mobile.
BTW, what you guys think about the Quick-Fix medigun? Personally I love it, but some people hate it. Although no overheal sucks, being able to keep like 4 people up by yourself is pretty awesome.
On July 06 2011 07:08 Torte de Lini wrote: I hate all the new weapons to be honest. The spy's gun is pretty good and the heavy minigun is decent, but everything else is just silly and for fun.
Are you talking about the Enforcer and Tomislav? I think they're both pretty much the best for that slot atm. The Enforcer hits so fucking hard at pointblank, and the Tomislav + GRUs make Heavies actually mobile.
BTW, what you guys think about the Quick-Fix medigun? Personally I love it, but some people hate it. Although no overheal sucks, being able to keep like 4 people up by yourself is pretty awesome.
I think I don't like the Tomislav because I named my Minigun: Mariah Carey lolol. The no-sound fast Rev. is awesome, the less bullet rounds is something I'm not fond of. It just basically asks you to get closer of the opponent, no?
Yeah, Enforcer is OP. The 0.5 delay is negated with the Dead Ringer as well (so it seems).
As for the Quick-Fix. Does it work if the demo is charging? Otherwise, I see no point to it. You're healing people who are slower than you: heavy, demo, Solider, Pyro (pyro is about the same speed I believe). So the equal speed thing is pointless.
Doesn't help you with the charge. I find that it would be better if the uber was better. Even if it was just "heal really fast for a period of time" Because it doesn't heal fast enough to provide "invuln" and it's over too fast to heal everybody up.
Yeah, the heal really fast is kind of negligible when Solider do so much nuke damage and demos too. Maybe it's something to halt heavies? I don't know the figures or much about it.
I think the idea that it negates any slowing effects is silly and dumb. How many weapons are there that slow you down?
I like the Solider whip thing, pretty silly fun :B
On July 06 2011 07:08 Torte de Lini wrote: I hate all the new weapons to be honest. The spy's gun is pretty good and the heavy minigun is decent, but everything else is just silly and for fun.
Are you talking about the Enforcer and Tomislav? I think they're both pretty much the best for that slot atm. The Enforcer hits so fucking hard at pointblank, and the Tomislav + GRUs make Heavies actually mobile.
BTW, what you guys think about the Quick-Fix medigun? Personally I love it, but some people hate it. Although no overheal sucks, being able to keep like 4 people up by yourself is pretty awesome.
I think I don't like the Tomislav because I named my Minigun: Mariah Carey lolol. The no-sound fast Rev. is awesome, the less bullet rounds is something I'm not fond of. It just basically asks you to get closer of the opponent, no?
with GRUs + the fast rev up time, it isn't hard to get close to people. although you are not bringing down teams by yourself, i think the mobility makes up for it. It makes playing a Heavy fun and you aren't completely fucked if you get caught off guard.
As for the Quick-Fix. Does it work if the demo is charging? Otherwise, I see no point to it. You're healing people who are slower than you: heavy, demo, Solider, Pyro (pyro is about the same speed I believe). So the equal speed thing is pointless.
i wouldn't look at the speed increase. I would still use the weapon if it didn't have that aspect.
The increased healing speed and faster ubercharge is really good. You can keep so many teammates by yourself at full health and the ubercharge is basically invincibility because you outheal everything that isn't a literal one shot. I guess it is one of those things you have to try to see how good it is.
On July 08 2011 14:34 Froadac wrote: Doesn't help you with the charge. I find that it would be better if the uber was better. Even if it was just "heal really fast for a period of time" Because it doesn't heal fast enough to provide "invuln" and it's over too fast to heal everybody up.
I find it heals fast enough to basically be an invuln.
On July 06 2011 07:08 Torte de Lini wrote: I hate all the new weapons to be honest. The spy's gun is pretty good and the heavy minigun is decent, but everything else is just silly and for fun.
Are you talking about the Enforcer and Tomislav? I think they're both pretty much the best for that slot atm. The Enforcer hits so fucking hard at pointblank, and the Tomislav + GRUs make Heavies actually mobile.
BTW, what you guys think about the Quick-Fix medigun? Personally I love it, but some people hate it. Although no overheal sucks, being able to keep like 4 people up by yourself is pretty awesome.
I think I don't like the Tomislav because I named my Minigun: Mariah Carey lolol. The no-sound fast Rev. is awesome, the less bullet rounds is something I'm not fond of. It just basically asks you to get closer of the opponent, no?
with GRUs + the fast rev up time, it isn't hard to get close to people. although you are now bringing down teams by yourself, i think the mobility makes up for it. It makes playing a Heavy fun and you aren't completely fucked if you get caught off guard.
As for the Quick-Fix. Does it work if the demo is charging? Otherwise, I see no point to it. You're healing people who are slower than you: heavy, demo, Solider, Pyro (pyro is about the same speed I believe). So the equal speed thing is pointless.
i wouldn't look at the speed increase. I would still use the weapon if it didn't have that aspect.
The increased healing speed and faster ubercharge is really good. You can keep so many teammates by yourself at full health and the ubercharge is basically invincibility because you outheal everything that isn't a literal one shot. I guess it is one of those things you have to try to see how good it is.
Yeah, I think I need to try the Quick-Fix more, I look stupid talking right now.
I'm still iffy about the Tomislav, everyone says it is powerful though.
On July 06 2011 07:08 Torte de Lini wrote: I hate all the new weapons to be honest. The spy's gun is pretty good and the heavy minigun is decent, but everything else is just silly and for fun.
Are you talking about the Enforcer and Tomislav? I think they're both pretty much the best for that slot atm. The Enforcer hits so fucking hard at pointblank, and the Tomislav + GRUs make Heavies actually mobile.
BTW, what you guys think about the Quick-Fix medigun? Personally I love it, but some people hate it. Although no overheal sucks, being able to keep like 4 people up by yourself is pretty awesome.
I think I don't like the Tomislav because I named my Minigun: Mariah Carey lolol. The no-sound fast Rev. is awesome, the less bullet rounds is something I'm not fond of. It just basically asks you to get closer of the opponent, no?
with GRUs + the fast rev up time, it isn't hard to get close to people. although you are now bringing down teams by yourself, i think the mobility makes up for it. It makes playing a Heavy fun and you aren't completely fucked if you get caught off guard.
As for the Quick-Fix. Does it work if the demo is charging? Otherwise, I see no point to it. You're healing people who are slower than you: heavy, demo, Solider, Pyro (pyro is about the same speed I believe). So the equal speed thing is pointless.
i wouldn't look at the speed increase. I would still use the weapon if it didn't have that aspect.
The increased healing speed and faster ubercharge is really good. You can keep so many teammates by yourself at full health and the ubercharge is basically invincibility because you outheal everything that isn't a literal one shot. I guess it is one of those things you have to try to see how good it is.
Yeah, I think I need to try the Quick-Fix more, I look stupid talking right now.
I'm still iffy about the Tomislav, everyone says it is powerful though.
Well, when you do try the Quick-Fix, still use the normal medigun during set-up since the Quick-Fix doesn't benefit from that. Just edit loadout right after your first death. Also, don't use the Quick-Fix if the two teams are having a really long standoff of not fighting. As the game and fights get more active, the better the Quick-Fix is.
And I would wait until you get the move speed increasing gloves to try the Tomislav. It just feels so much more natural when you have both of them.
I feel comfortable with all of the classes right now and feel like I can be reasonably helpful to my team with whatever I play, except the Spy. After watching several videos that offer tips on playing the Spy, I've definitely improved a lot, but I still feel like I'm missing something big.
Today I had my best game with the Spy I've had so far, but I was still barely going above one for one on K:D and definitely not being able to take out all the priority targets that I should be going for. I'm sure a lot of it is just practice, but I feel like I've got the basics down and can blend in when I'm disguising and can manage my cloak just fine, but actually when it comes to going for the backstab/sap/whatever, all too often something just goes horribly wrong, lol. My disguise doesn't come back on or the backstab doesn't register, or the cloak doesnt seem to trigger, despite the meter being full.
The basics that I've learnt so far: - Disguise as an ally when with your team and switch for the enemy team. - Keep an eye on the respawns and know who should be coming from the base. - Don't get greedy with backstabs and if one fails, stealth out and move on/try again if it's safe. - Use "b" to trigger the last disguise used.
I'm sure there is some really simple thing (or things) that I'm missing but as I've no idea what it might be, I'm not even sure exactly what to ask for here. So, if anyone knows of anything that they feel newbie spies often overlook or get wrong, then please let me know.
On July 08 2011 14:32 Torte de Lini wrote: As for the Quick-Fix. Does it work if the demo is charging? Otherwise, I see no point to it. You're healing people who are slower than you: heavy, demo, Solider, Pyro (pyro is about the same speed I believe). So the equal speed thing is pointless.
Medic is 107% speed (up to 117% with Overdose). Scout is 133%. Pyro/Engi/Sniper/Spy are 100% and the others slower... so basically just Scout or a Soldier using the new whip are faster.
I haven't had a chance to try the Quick Fix yet but I'm not really a fan so far from watching others use it. Even with the uber + heavy you have to be careful against a sentry. Pretty much walk around the corner firing. I tried jumping around the corner to a sentry that was 10 feet away (as a heavy while quick fix uber'd) in a ctf game so I wasn't shooting it immediately and got killed (only thing shooting at us in the vicinity), though I did get it low. Obviously it was a single case and I could've gone about it better, but the margin for error is a lot tighter than I'd like, since sentry breaking so you can push is one of the main uses of ubers.
And due to the way healing speed works in relationship to how long ago someone was damaged (heal them slowly if they were recently damaged, faster as more time passes up to the damage occurring 10 seconds ago or longer) trying to keep up multiple people that are taking fire is kinda counter-productive. It's up to those people to back off for a bit if they're that wounded. You can't heal stupid (efficiently).
The beefier classes benefit more from overhealing. The more agile classes can get gibbed really quickly even while being healed, especially if they aren't overhealed. I'm betting the uber charge rate gets cut in half when they're full health, just like it does when people are fully overhealed for the other two. Not being able to randomly overheal people + healing their main HP up to full faster (aka, reaching the half uber charge rate faster) seems to partially counteract the 25% faster uber charge. Just doesn't make sense to me when you'd wanna use it over medi/kritz yet.
On the other hand, I just got an Overdose drop, which was at the top of my wishlist (Medic is most played so far with 109 hours recorded on Steam) so it'll be interesting to see if the faster speed is noticeable as the 10% damage penalty is neglible, especially as I usually use the ubersaw for spy checking. Backpedaling is 90% of forward speed, so at 30% uber (easily obtained) and higher I should theoretically be able to backpedal faster than a pyro can run at me and just be a bit more squirrely all around.
Edit: Just saw this on the Wiki about the speed bonus: This bonus only applies when the Overdose is being held at the time.
On July 08 2011 16:47 jtype wrote: I feel comfortable with all of the classes right now and feel like I can be reasonably helpful to my team with whatever I play, except the Spy. After watching several videos that offer tips on playing the Spy, I've definitely improved a lot, but I still feel like I'm missing something big.
Today I had my best game with the Spy I've had so far, but I was still barely going above one for one on K:D and definitely not being able to take out all the priority targets that I should be going for. I'm sure a lot of it is just practice, but I feel like I've got the basics down and can blend in when I'm disguising and can manage my cloak just fine, but actually when it comes to going for the backstab/sap/whatever, all too often something just goes horribly wrong, lol. My disguise doesn't come back on or the backstab doesn't register, or the cloak doesnt seem to trigger, despite the meter being full.
The basics that I've learnt so far: - Disguise as an ally when with your team and switch for the enemy team. - Keep an eye on the respawns and know who should be coming from the base. - Don't get greedy with backstabs and if one fails, stealth out and move on/try again if it's safe. - Use "b" to trigger the last disguise used.
I'm sure there is some really simple thing (or things) that I'm missing but as I've no idea what it might be, I'm not even sure exactly what to ask for here. So, if anyone knows of anything that they feel newbie spies often overlook or get wrong, then please let me know.
Something to keep in mind is to behave very similar to a class that you are disguised as, and never disguise as a scout (you run slow) or a medic (you dont heal >_>) unless you really know what you're doing.
One thing I noticed when i play spy is that a VERY good idea is to never ever look directly at an enemy for prolonged periods of time. Keep your back to them, and the chance they will suspect you is much lower.
Another thing is, if you play a dead ringer make sure you disguise as your own ally then die, so enemies wont suspect a spy. The saharen spy set is amazing, your uncloak sound is almost unhearable (And it is unhearable for the dead ringer, which is HUUUGE)
I think I linked it before, but this is the link to one of the best spies making educational videos. Uses the default watch, which is clearly the manliest way of playing: http://www.youtube.com/user/tf2gentleman
Sample, this is from our teams highlander games, in the ETF2L highlander challenge
I prefer the normal watch than the dead ringer. I only run dead ringer because of the new gun's delay. I hate not being able to cloak whenever I want D:
What is the best Rocket Launcher? I have Direct Hit and Black box, sadly no Liberty Launcher. I guess Direct Hit really rewards good aim and Black Box is good when you have no medic? Should I craft my Black box into a Liberty launcher?
I am playing Pyro mostly and let me tell You a thing: It is dumb that when I am 1on1 with a Soldier or Demo in a small choke and I grill them for 5 seconds then they manage to kill me and not die in the process. I also observed a trend that team with more Demos and Soldiers wins, but good Spies and Heavy+Medic combos can break this. As for Pyro, I crafted my Achievement Backburner into a Degreaser. I am running with Degreaser, Detonator and Axtinguisher and it is amazing. I played Scout for a bit, but he isn't that good cart pusher, he is somewhat good for capturing points though.. Still, I didn't get Bonk, only Mad Milk so things I have trouble with (Sentries, really good defensive positions) are too much for me. With Bonk I should be more useful, because I will be immune for a bit.
On July 10 2011 04:04 FinnGamer wrote: What is the best Rocket Launcher? I have Direct Hit and Black box, sadly no Liberty Launcher. I guess Direct Hit really rewards good aim and Black Box is good when you have no medic? Should I craft my Black box into a Liberty launcher?
the best launcher is the first rocket launcher!
but it's just your own preference direct hit - if you're good at aiming, good vs sentries black box - good efficiency in general, -1 rocket hurts against sentries liberty launcher - improved version of direct hit imo, -1 rocket also hurt your ability to destroy sentries But seriously, i laugh when i see soldiers with direct hit that can't aim.
Yeah, the pyro has been relegated to support as other classes got their items. Pyros when they first got their update were absolutely freaking ridiculous since the old damage scaleup as you go closer to the person was sill around, you got 25 extra hp for using the backburner, and there weren't a bazillion ways to put out fire that weren't water or a medic. You'd run into dumb situations where like 60% of each team was pyro because no one wanted to deal with the burn damage of suiciding pyros.
At this point, they're probably one of the weaker classes all around. Soldiers are always going to own you unless you use your compression blast very wisely/effectively, that's just the way it is. I almost felt like they should have reduced the cooldown of compression blast since the soldier got the direct hit since you have to sacrifice ammo to use it. It'd just make breaking sentries more difficult though, I think.
Also bonk sucks and doesn't really help against sentries too much. At best it helps you distract the sentry's fire while a demoman/soldier blows it up. Although in my experience, you tend to die before he finishes, because bonk doesn't last very long at all.
On July 10 2011 04:04 FinnGamer wrote: What is the best Rocket Launcher? I have Direct Hit and Black box, sadly no Liberty Launcher. I guess Direct Hit really rewards good aim and Black Box is good when you have no medic? Should I craft my Black box into a Liberty launcher?
Default launcher.
Direct hit is for when you can't predict well. The almost hitscan rockets mean you should hit pretty much every airshot. It can't be used for area denial, and is less reliable when taking on scouts.
On July 10 2011 04:10 Kurumi wrote: I am playing Pyro mostly and let me tell You a thing: It is dumb that when I am 1on1 with a Soldier or Demo in a small choke and I grill them for 5 seconds then they manage to kill me and not die in the process. I also observed a trend that team with more Demos and Soldiers wins, but good Spies and Heavy+Medic combos can break this. As for Pyro, I crafted my Achievement Backburner into a Degreaser. I am running with Degreaser, Detonator and Axtinguisher and it is amazing. I played Scout for a bit, but he isn't that good cart pusher, he is somewhat good for capturing points though.. Still, I didn't get Bonk, only Mad Milk so things I have trouble with (Sentries, really good defensive positions) are too much for me. With Bonk I should be more useful, because I will be immune for a bit.
Scouts in highlander teams mainly push the cart forward, while the rest of the team moves forward. Pubs aren't that organized though for that to really work.
You shouldn't run up to Demo/Solly as pyro, only if you can sneak up and get a quick axtinguish combo. Keep a bit of distance, set them on fire, focus on airblasting their projectiles, and when blast them in the air, hit them with the shotgun (or flaregun, but shotgun way more manly)
On July 09 2011 19:59 h3r1n6 wrote: I think I linked it before, but this is the link to one of the best spies making educational videos. Uses the default watch, which is clearly the manliest way of playing: http://www.youtube.com/user/tf2gentleman
Yea I watched those when you posted them up before. Excellent vids and really educational too. The problem I'm having (I think) is more to do with the basic mechanics of the spy, more than actual play style.
Thanks anyway tho h3r1n6 and thanks KtheZ for the tips too. I'll probably hop on tonight and get some more practice in.
On July 09 2011 19:59 h3r1n6 wrote: I think I linked it before, but this is the link to one of the best spies making educational videos. Uses the default watch, which is clearly the manliest way of playing: http://www.youtube.com/user/tf2gentleman
Yea I watched those when you posted them up before. Excellent vids and really educational too. The problem I'm having (I think) is more to do with the basic mechanics of the spy, more than actual play style.
Thanks anyway tho h3r1n6 and thanks KtheZ for the tips too. I'll probably hop on tonight and get some more practice in.
Well, if you have problems with spy, there is always the dead ringer :D
More than the other classes, for Spy your choice of cloaking device (Default Watch, Dead Ringer, or Cloak and Dagger) seems to really impacts what the most effective playstyle will be. Which knife you use does to a lesser extent, as well. The other classes don't vary quite as much when changing up their weapon (ignoring demoknights, lawl).
As both the Cloak and Dagger and the Dead Ringer are unlocked via achievements, if you play around enough you'll have access to them and can figure out what works best for you.
So far, in my very limited Spy play time, I've found that while acting is useful it's generally better if they never see you to begin with - some people just spy check anyway, regardless of your acting. But then I like the Cloak and Dagger the most so far - so go figure.
I must admit i'm still not sure how the Dead Ringer works. I've got it, I just don't know what to do with it.
edit- nvm, just read the wiki page on it.
I really just like using the default loadout, but if I'm feeling cheeky and my aim is on point, I'll whip out the ambassador. Not a fan of cloak and dagger. I thought I would love it, as using disguises feels so luck-based, but in most games you really do need them regardless. In fact, playing the spy in general feels very luck-based at times. My backstabs kept failing me today too and just, either not registering, or not registering as backstabs.
tf2 totally resparked my old d2 trade addiction. back then i spent days on boards trading. and now again i spend countless hours on trade servers and boards for items that in the end barely matter.
but since i started trading (1 week ago) i made like 20 ref profit , not counting the 3 polycount hats,2 other hats and strange shotty i keep for myself. ~~
Any tips on how to break sentry guns? I play a lot of CP/PL and no matter how fast we rush and coordinate, by the time we get to the last point there are 3-4+ level 3 sentry guns set up and nothing can break it lol (this would be in like a huge 16v16 server). I'm starting to think the game just isn't balanced in mind for this kind of play.
On July 13 2011 09:07 writer22816 wrote: Any tips on how to break sentry guns? I play a lot of CP/PL and no matter how fast we rush and coordinate, by the time we get to the last point there are 3-4+ level 3 sentry guns set up and nothing can break it lol (this would be in like a huge 16v16 server). I'm starting to think the game just isn't balanced in mind for this kind of play.
On July 13 2011 09:07 writer22816 wrote: Any tips on how to break sentry guns? I play a lot of CP/PL and no matter how fast we rush and coordinate, by the time we get to the last point there are 3-4+ level 3 sentry guns set up and nothing can break it lol (this would be in like a huge 16v16 server). I'm starting to think the game just isn't balanced in mind for this kind of play.
This kind of situation is when teamwork really starts to pay off.
On July 13 2011 09:07 writer22816 wrote: Any tips on how to break sentry guns? I play a lot of CP/PL and no matter how fast we rush and coordinate, by the time we get to the last point there are 3-4+ level 3 sentry guns set up and nothing can break it lol (this would be in like a huge 16v16 server). I'm starting to think the game just isn't balanced in mind for this kind of play.
pick soldier, sniper, or demo and hit the sentries from far away.
Uber'd heavy Sap them as a spy (probably the hardest if there are a ton of engineers)
Spy sapping or Bonk Scout and the rest of the team follows in behind the demo. If you're ubering a heavy, make sure to block the rockets and bullets from him with your uber medic so he doesn't get extremely pushed back and can take out the sentries.
Also keep in mind some servers have stupidly low respawn times. By default, the defending team starts to respawn much more slowly over time, if the attacking team is gaining traction by killing them. Some servers are basically impossible for the attacking team barring ridiculous amounts of coordination.
Also, there are maps where if the enemy team gets three sentries up, it is very difficult to break them even with good demomen and ubers. That's more a failure as a team to prevent such a situation from happening though.
On July 13 2011 09:07 writer22816 wrote: Any tips on how to break sentry guns? I play a lot of CP/PL and no matter how fast we rush and coordinate, by the time we get to the last point there are 3-4+ level 3 sentry guns set up and nothing can break it lol (this would be in like a huge 16v16 server). I'm starting to think the game just isn't balanced in mind for this kind of play.
Reminds me of a game I played 12v12 we had 8 engies and the other team was complaining all game about how imba mass engineers is in attack/defend.
I really don't understand people who play engineer. It's probably the most mind-numbingly boring class for me. All you're doing throughout the game is building/repairing shit and there's just so many factors out of your control such as defending team-mates, spies and ubers.
What probably pisses me off the most is when a spy kills me, zaps my shit, then I realize that there's a pyro team-mate standing a few feet away not doing anything.
Yes, I use instspawn servers to get grind achievements such as 1000 gibs with Solly or something, but for serious games with friends, play on normal servers
On July 13 2011 13:12 EpiK wrote: I really don't understand people who play engineer. It's probably the most mind-numbingly boring class for me. All you're doing throughout the game is building/repairing shit and there's just so many factors out of your control such as defending team-mates, spies and ubers.
What probably pisses me off the most is when a spy kills me, zaps my shit, then I realize that there's a pyro team-mate standing a few feet away not doing anything.
Learn what a spy is, they are not hard to spot. And if engineer is really that boring, try thinking not like a turtle and stop playing dustbowl.
TBH I find Engineer quite exciting to play. There's quite a lot of things you need to be constantly.
I keep my buildings moving as much as possible so that no one can just blindly spam nades/rockets/stickys/whatever in the vague direction they've been getting killed from and get results. Also, it helps to motivate your teammates to push forward if they see there's a dispenser and sentry moving up too (although moving the buildings up as part of a frontline push isn't always a good idea imo).
Also, I try to run out of cover and use the guns as much as I can, as the both can pack a decent punch if all the shots hit.
I might be wrong doing this and may be annoying people by doing so, but I like to run back to get metal packs to repair my buildings, whenever I don't need to be helping them tank damage. I find that way, I'm not draining the dispenser's resources so the teammates on the front line can get more ammo and heals.
On July 13 2011 13:49 Froadac wrote: Haha, was just talking about this in game. It's frustrating, but it's somewhat relaxing and you get shittons of poitns.
This game cannot be relaxing and frustrating at the same time!
It's mostly frustrating though, even if you'd be owning every round/map. :D
On July 13 2011 14:30 jtype wrote: TBH I find Engineer quite exciting to play. There's quite a lot of things you need to be constantly.
I keep my buildings moving as much as possible so that no one can just blindly spam nades/rockets/stickys/whatever in the vague direction they've been getting killed from and get results. Also, it helps to motivate your teammates to push forward if they see there's a dispenser and sentry moving up too (although moving the buildings up as part of a frontline push isn't always a good idea imo).
Also, I try to run out of cover and use the guns as much as I can, as the both can pack a decent punch if all the shots hit.
I might be wrong doing this and may be annoying people by doing so, but I like to run back to get metal packs to repair my buildings, whenever I don't need to be helping them tank damage. I find that way, I'm not draining the dispenser's resources so the teammates on the front line can get more ammo and heals.
Only getting metal from it drains the dispenser. There's no limit on the amount of healing and ammo it can provide.
On July 13 2011 13:12 EpiK wrote: I really don't understand people who play engineer. It's probably the most mind-numbingly boring class for me. All you're doing throughout the game is building/repairing shit and there's just so many factors out of your control such as defending team-mates, spies and ubers.
What probably pisses me off the most is when a spy kills me, zaps my shit, then I realize that there's a pyro team-mate standing a few feet away not doing anything.
Not much you can do against ubers, but they're supposed to hard-counter you. Plenty of things you can do to defend teammates and kill spies.
Defending teammates is pretty straightforward. Avoiding spies is a matter of practice. After a while, you get to figure out how certain spies behave and how you should move, especially if the server runs the map for more than two rounds.
Generally, you want to keep moving, even as an Engineer, to avoid backstabs. Don't hang around too close to your stuff and patrol the area erratically. Doing 180s every now and then and randomly firing is also a good way to discourage spies. If a teammate is heading in a straight line towards your stuff, shoot them with the shotgun until it's absolutely clear they aren't a spy. Use the bleed wrench for close-range stuff so they can't cloak and get away. Watch out for suspicious spy "deaths" on the front lines and check out-of-sight, nearby corners for Dead Ringers. Learn when to desert your stuff or pack up.
Etc.
Of note: learning how the Knife hitbox works is also important. Skilled spies can stairstab or frontstab given a slight angle between you and them. Learning how to minimize angles can only be learned the hard way.
A Spy that saps and immediately shoots your tele will destroy said tele, you can't wrench the Sapper off fast enough and it's frustrating to deal with But this is really a team thing, gotta make sure Spies aren't camping either tele end. You can discourage Spies from immediately shooting after sapping by waiting a couple seconds before removing the Sapper. Doesn't work against good spies, though.
Not much you can do against a good Demoman, though. Not by yourself. But that's another hard counter...
On July 13 2011 13:12 EpiK wrote: I really don't understand people who play engineer. It's probably the most mind-numbingly boring class for me. All you're doing throughout the game is building/repairing shit and there's just so many factors out of your control such as defending team-mates, spies and ubers.
What probably pisses me off the most is when a spy kills me, zaps my shit, then I realize that there's a pyro team-mate standing a few feet away not doing anything.
You just have to see it from the other side. I play almost exclusively Spy and let me tell you, the difference between a good engineer and a bad one is huge. A good one will never be by their items, so you can't kill him. You sap it, he comes back in a second, kills you, fixes his things. You can't really do much about it because he knows you're a spy since his crap got sapped. They also build their buildings in places where it's really hard to engage, or stick with another engineer close to a wall making it completely impossible to do anything without a demoman or uber.
I see why you're annoyed by the dumb-ass pyro who didn't stop the spy, but you can't really claim a class is boring or bad just because other players in your team suck. As a spy, I probably wouldn't go close to you in the first place if the pyro is close by... I don't know he's bad and I know from experience that going close to a pyro generally leads to instant death.
On July 13 2011 09:07 writer22816 wrote: Any tips on how to break sentry guns? I play a lot of CP/PL and no matter how fast we rush and coordinate, by the time we get to the last point there are 3-4+ level 3 sentry guns set up and nothing can break it lol (this would be in like a huge 16v16 server). I'm starting to think the game just isn't balanced in mind for this kind of play.
Reminds me of a game I played 12v12 we had 8 engies and the other team was complaining all game about how imba mass engineers is in attack/defend.
With coordination, it shouldn't be that hard. Spies from behind to harass the crap out of the engineers and sap their stuff, synced with uber heavies and demomen from the front. A single person can't do crap against a fortified position, but two spies working together well can clean a position as long as there's distraction.
On July 13 2011 13:12 EpiK wrote: I really don't understand people who play engineer. It's probably the most mind-numbingly boring class for me. All you're doing throughout the game is building/repairing shit and there's just so many factors out of your control such as defending team-mates, spies and ubers.
What probably pisses me off the most is when a spy kills me, zaps my shit, then I realize that there's a pyro team-mate standing a few feet away not doing anything.
Well can't you just go Frontier Justice/Pistol/Gunslinger and go with your Offence/Mobile defence?
I play that setup(Setup, build... whatever) and it's not a turtle setup like most Engineer setups might be. It's a bit hard to do and stuff, but when you get your mini-Sentry into a good position and it gets assists and/or kills, Frontier Justice just kills people.
It's much more interesting than just building and repairing stuff, although that is only a small percentage an Engineer actually has to think about.
What pisses me off is when half of the team is a combination of Bad Spies(Good spies are always welcome) and Snipers. Snipers can be good, but honestly it seems like people just don't know how to play the class. And over 3 or either is in most cases just too many.
It's always interesting to have a good Spy or two and a couple good Snipers in the team and they are very good at supporting when played well.
I play Sniper from time to time, use Sydney Sleeper/Jarate/Bushwacka setup and while I might not know how to play myself, I at least try to move with the team and support rather than camp in a corner some might do.
Sydney Sleeper with max charge will usually kill the targets people want you to target: Medics and opposing Snipers.
Applying the Jarate effect is also very good when used on Heavies and Soldiers. A bit wasted against Demomen and Pyros, but still helps.
On July 13 2011 12:37 zer0das wrote: Also keep in mind some servers have stupidly low respawn times. By default, the defending team starts to slowly respawn much more slowly over time, if the attacking team is gaining traction by killing them. Some servers are basically impossible for the attacking team barring ridiculous amounts of coordination.
Also, there are maps where if the enemy team gets three sentries up, it is very difficult to break them even with good demomen and ubers. That's more a failure as a team to prevent such a situation from happen though.
The respawn times don't change over time or by killing enemies.
They change based on how much players there are(it's lower with less players) and based on capturing points, but if and how much they change it is based on the map(not map type, the map itself has it's own rules). In general you get shorter respawn times for capturing points and/or longer for losing points, but there are exceptions, like if your spawn is moved forward you may even get an increase in respawn time or the times are static throughout the map with the attack having lower and defense higher. KotH maps have a lower respawn time for the team that does NOT control the control point in order to make it a back and forth game, which is the opposite of other types of maps, but you win on a time limit here, so it's not unfair, because the enemy will have to survive the same amount of time with the same disadvantage in order to win.
The respawning is also in waves. If the respawn wave time is 10 seconds(the default), you may respawn after 10 to 20 seconds after the deathcam(cancelling the deathcam does not shorten the time), depending on when you died relative to the respawn waves(so it's practically random, since you can't exactly control when you die). According to Valve this was intended to group people together, but in fact it has the exact opposite effect, since classes have different speeds it actually ensures they arrive at the contested area at a different time and it creates teleporter congestion, since teleporters are on a single use cooldown, while people respawn in groups.
On July 13 2011 14:30 jtype wrote: TBH I find Engineer quite exciting to play. There's quite a lot of things you need to be constantly.
I keep my buildings moving as much as possible so that no one can just blindly spam nades/rockets/stickys/whatever in the vague direction they've been getting killed from and get results. Also, it helps to motivate your teammates to push forward if they see there's a dispenser and sentry moving up too (although moving the buildings up as part of a frontline push isn't always a good idea imo).
Also, I try to run out of cover and use the guns as much as I can, as the both can pack a decent punch if all the shots hit.
I might be wrong doing this and may be annoying people by doing so, but I like to run back to get metal packs to repair my buildings, whenever I don't need to be helping them tank damage. I find that way, I'm not draining the dispenser's resources so the teammates on the front line can get more ammo and heals.
Only getting metal from it drains the dispenser. There's no limit on the amount of healing and ammo it can provide.
On July 13 2011 13:12 EpiK wrote: I really don't understand people who play engineer. It's probably the most mind-numbingly boring class for me. All you're doing throughout the game is building/repairing shit and there's just so many factors out of your control such as defending team-mates, spies and ubers.
What probably pisses me off the most is when a spy kills me, zaps my shit, then I realize that there's a pyro team-mate standing a few feet away not doing anything.
Uhh EMP grenades, regular nades, super shottie? Engies are really good at fighting. And capable of setting up remote camp spots deep inside enemy lines with teleporter+ammo container+sentry.
On July 13 2011 14:43 acker wrote: Not much you can do against a good Demoman, though. Not by yourself. But that's another hard counter...
Well, if you use the wrangler, it gets pretty hard for the demoman on his own to kill the sentry. He can't outrange it anymore, he will need pretty much all his stickies to kill it. And he can't stay around a corner, because you can hit him with rocket splash.
Hm... suppose I didn't realize respawn timers weren't directly affected by deaths. However, on a standard server, if you're killing a lot of the enemy team, you're eventually going to start gaining traction. If it's a server with reduced spawn times, you might hit a wall and not be able to advance reasonably.
On July 13 2011 14:43 acker wrote: Not much you can do against a good Demoman, though. Not by yourself. But that's another hard counter...
Well, if you use the wrangler, it gets pretty hard for the demoman on his own to kill the sentry. He can't outrange it anymore, he will need pretty much all his stickies to kill it. And he can't stay around a corner, because you can hit him with rocket splash.
Harder, yes. Hard, no. Rockets are slow, travel in straight lines, and launch every three seconds or so for 100 damage, direct (even with the Wrangler, check tf2 wiki for actual numbers). Sticky bombs travel in arcs and can be charged for more distance. And while a Demo can dodge rockets and therefore still edge a Sentry, a Sentry can't dodge stickies. Not too difficult to edge a Sentry, one on one.
If you're using a Wrangler, your Sentry will deactivate for three seconds every time you clear sticky bombs with your shotgun, leaving a huge window of opportunity for any Demoman.
Luckily, this is Team Fortress, so one-on-ones shouldn't happen very often.
On July 13 2011 14:43 acker wrote: Not much you can do against a good Demoman, though. Not by yourself. But that's another hard counter...
Well, if you use the wrangler, it gets pretty hard for the demoman on his own to kill the sentry. He can't outrange it anymore, he will need pretty much all his stickies to kill it. And he can't stay around a corner, because you can hit him with rocket splash.
Harder, yes. Hard, no. Rockets are slow, travel in straight lines, and launch every three seconds or so for 100 damage, direct (even with the Wrangler, check tf2 wiki for actual numbers). Sticky bombs travel in arcs and can be charged for more distance. And while a Demo can dodge rockets and therefore still edge a Sentry, a Sentry can't dodge stickies. Not too difficult to edge a Sentry, one on one.
If you're using a Wrangler, your Sentry will deactivate for three seconds every time you clear sticky bombs with your shotgun, leaving a huge window of opportunity for any Demoman.
Luckily, this is Team Fortress, so one-on-ones shouldn't happen very often.
For demoman, 6 stickies can kill the sentry, but you will have to get them there without dying and without the engineer defusing them. Charging 6 stickies takes way too long, a good wrangler position can't be edged anyway, since it abuses the range, and even with an edgeable sentry, the rocket splash and the engineer running up and shooting the demo in the face is enough. And that is looking at a isolated 1vs1 scenario. Put a pyro next to the sentry, and it takes an entire teams effort to take that thing down.
On July 13 2011 14:43 acker wrote: Not much you can do against a good Demoman, though. Not by yourself. But that's another hard counter...
Well, if you use the wrangler, it gets pretty hard for the demoman on his own to kill the sentry. He can't outrange it anymore, he will need pretty much all his stickies to kill it. And he can't stay around a corner, because you can hit him with rocket splash.
Harder, yes. Hard, no. Rockets are slow, travel in straight lines, and launch every three seconds or so for 100 damage, direct (even with the Wrangler, check tf2 wiki for actual numbers). Sticky bombs travel in arcs and can be charged for more distance. And while a Demo can dodge rockets and therefore still edge a Sentry, a Sentry can't dodge stickies. Not too difficult to edge a Sentry, one on one.
If you're using a Wrangler, your Sentry will deactivate for three seconds every time you clear sticky bombs with your shotgun, leaving a huge window of opportunity for any Demoman.
Luckily, this is Team Fortress, so one-on-ones shouldn't happen very often.
For demoman, 6 stickies can kill the sentry, but you will have to get them there without dying and without the engineer defusing them. Charging 6 stickies takes way too long, a good wrangler position can't be edged anyway, since it abuses the range, and even with an edgeable sentry, the rocket splash and the engineer running up and shooting the demo in the face is enough. And that is looking at a isolated 1vs1 scenario. Put a pyro next to the sentry, and it takes an entire teams effort to take that thing down.
It takes three stickies to kill a level 3 sentry. If wrangled, it can't be repaired by the Engi and the stickies can't be defused without disabling it, so the point is moot.
If you're abusing the range of the sentry, the Engi can't walk up to you and shoot you in the face, not without a substantial risk of death. Nor can the rockets even have a chance of hitting you, they're not hitscan. if you're close, you can sticky launch quickly and efficiently. Or you can lob stickies over obstacles using the arc. Or even abuse sticky blast radius.
If you have a teammate, Sentry positions are extremely tough to break with Demoes, pretty much your only hope is an Uber or team coordination. Team Fortress > Solo Fortress, thank Valve.
On July 10 2011 15:49 jtype wrote: I must admit i'm still not sure how the Dead Ringer works. I've got it, I just don't know what to do with it.
edit- nvm, just read the wiki page on it.
I really just like using the default loadout, but if I'm feeling cheeky and my aim is on point, I'll whip out the ambassador. Not a fan of cloak and dagger. I thought I would love it, as using disguises feels so luck-based, but in most games you really do need them regardless. In fact, playing the spy in general feels very luck-based at times. My backstabs kept failing me today too and just, either not registering, or not registering as backstabs.
This is why you should be using the dead ringer, it removes most of the luck inherent to the other spy setups. The clock should always be up, even when you're disguised. It takes less than a second to put down, so you can easily have it up, take it down to knife someone, and put it up again before anyone can harm you.
If you know the map well, you can run towards the enemy lines, get shot, run back to a safe spot, uncloak, pick up ammo to restore the clock, THEN go out behind them. This gives you a safe way in and out of enemy territory, the only "luck" based thing is whether or not you find any good enemies to stab.
On July 13 2011 14:43 acker wrote: Not much you can do against a good Demoman, though. Not by yourself. But that's another hard counter...
Well, if you use the wrangler, it gets pretty hard for the demoman on his own to kill the sentry. He can't outrange it anymore, he will need pretty much all his stickies to kill it. And he can't stay around a corner, because you can hit him with rocket splash.
Harder, yes. Hard, no. Rockets are slow, travel in straight lines, and launch every three seconds or so for 100 damage, direct (even with the Wrangler, check tf2 wiki for actual numbers). Sticky bombs travel in arcs and can be charged for more distance. And while a Demo can dodge rockets and therefore still edge a Sentry, a Sentry can't dodge stickies. Not too difficult to edge a Sentry, one on one.
If you're using a Wrangler, your Sentry will deactivate for three seconds every time you clear sticky bombs with your shotgun, leaving a huge window of opportunity for any Demoman.
Luckily, this is Team Fortress, so one-on-ones shouldn't happen very often.
For demoman, 6 stickies can kill the sentry, but you will have to get them there without dying and without the engineer defusing them. Charging 6 stickies takes way too long, a good wrangler position can't be edged anyway, since it abuses the range, and even with an edgeable sentry, the rocket splash and the engineer running up and shooting the demo in the face is enough. And that is looking at a isolated 1vs1 scenario. Put a pyro next to the sentry, and it takes an entire teams effort to take that thing down.
It takes three stickies to kill a level 3 sentry. If wrangled, it can't be repaired by the Engi and the stickies can't be defused without disabling it, so the point is moot.
If you're abusing the range of the sentry, the Engi can't walk up to you and shoot you in the face, not without a substantial risk of death. Nor can the rockets even have a chance of hitting you, they're not hitscan. if you're close, you can sticky launch quickly and efficiently. Or you can lob stickies over obstacles using the arc. Or even abuse sticky blast radius.
If you have a teammate, Sentry positions are extremely tough to break with Demoes, pretty much your only hope is an Uber or team coordination. Team Fortress > Solo Fortress, thank Valve.
if its a Wrangled Level 3, its not 3 stickies...if the Engi out ranges out like they can on the last point on Goldrush, it's pretty hard to take down as a Demo.
I've had such good times with this game back in 07-08, I picked it back up in 2010 but I dropped it again due to SC2 being released .
For all you new players, don't be intimidated! have fun!
Advice: Play an easy class first to get a grip on the mechanics, I'd suggest Medic or Soldier, from there try out other classes until you're comfortable with it.
i was putting in almost 30-40 hours a week for a few months at a time. ive taken a break from it for a while, but im putting in some time here and there since the uber update. havent got any of the new items yet though
I don't know if anyone else asked this but, does your "Friends" option not work properly? I only have TF2 in my library of games and I can't respond or add friends. Anyone else with this problem?
On July 15 2011 05:36 xXFireandIceXx wrote: I don't know if anyone else asked this but, does your "Friends" option not work properly? I only have TF2 in my library of games and I can't respond or add friends. Anyone else with this problem?
it uses your steam friend list, so you can only add friends via steam.
On July 15 2011 05:36 xXFireandIceXx wrote: I don't know if anyone else asked this but, does your "Friends" option not work properly? I only have TF2 in my library of games and I can't respond or add friends. Anyone else with this problem?
If you are a F2P TF2 player and don't have any other games on your Steam account you will not be able to add friends.
On July 15 2011 04:48 Serejai wrote: Stress testing a TL server right now. If anyone would like to join that would be appreciated.
tf2.stasysgaming.com
Just by looking at the name I can tell you that your server is stuck on arena. However it also appears that the server is down when I check the game info.
On July 15 2011 05:36 xXFireandIceXx wrote: I don't know if anyone else asked this but, does your "Friends" option not work properly? I only have TF2 in my library of games and I can't respond or add friends. Anyone else with this problem?
If you are a F2P TF2 player and don't have any other games on your Steam account you will not be able to add friends.
On July 15 2011 04:48 Serejai wrote: Stress testing a TL server right now. If anyone would like to join that would be appreciated.
tf2.stasysgaming.com
Just by looking at the name I can tell you that your server is stuck on arena. However it also appears that the server is down when I check the game info.
It's not "stuck" on arena. It was switched to that because that's what gameplay type everyone wanted. It can be changed around accordingly.
Server hasn't gone offline at all, so could you PM a screenie or something of the game info showing it as being down?
On July 15 2011 04:48 Serejai wrote: Stress testing a TL server right now. If anyone would like to join that would be appreciated.
tf2.stasysgaming.com
Just by looking at the name I can tell you that your server is stuck on arena. However it also appears that the server is down when I check the game info.
It's not "stuck" on arena. It was switched to that because that's what gameplay type everyone wanted. It can be changed around accordingly.
Server hasn't gone offline at all, so could you PM a screenie or something of the game info showing it as being down?
Well when I checked the info the ip was all 0s but it did respond when I checked for game at that address with the steam server browser. As for being stuck on arena. The current state of the server, only arena maps will show in the rtv and the nominate list (assuming you're using sourcemod) or if its valve only it will only rotate between arena maps. The server name is a dead giveaway to this.
Everything is default at the moment. No mods are running, so the map changes based on default conditions every 30 minutes I think. I changed to an arena map and I guess the server decided to lock itself on that.
I'll be fixing that stuff shortly. Mostly wanted to stress test the connection to see how it held up so I haven't really configured the server yet. I'll change up the gametype in a bit, or reset it to randomly pick a type.
I don't know if this is the right place to start asking these kinds of questions, but w/e, this is the most familiar community to me atm so might as well:
I'm getting interested in the Soldier class and want to start getting a bit better at it.
My question is: How does one perform a Long Rocket Jump? I know it's a combination of firing the rocket behind you, crouching and jumping at the same time, but I just happen to shoot myself straight up when I try that.
Is there some kind of a "magic trick" to this or it it just a matter of sheer amount of practice?
On July 20 2011 04:19 Airact wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to start asking these kinds of questions, but w/e, this is the most familiar community to me atm so might as well:
I'm getting interested in the Soldier class and want to start getting a bit better at it.
My question is: How does one perform a Long Rocket Jump? I know it's a combination of firing the rocket behind you, crouching and jumping at the same time, but I just happen to shoot myself straight up when I try that.
Is there some kind of a "magic trick" to this or it it just a matter of sheer amount of practice?
Also, what do you guys think about the new Soldier weapons(Liberty Launcher, Reserve Shooter, Market Gardener) or about the über update in general?
On July 20 2011 04:19 Airact wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to start asking these kinds of questions, but w/e, this is the most familiar community to me atm so might as well:
I'm getting interested in the Soldier class and want to start getting a bit better at it.
My question is: How does one perform a Long Rocket Jump? I know it's a combination of firing the rocket behind you, crouching and jumping at the same time, but I just happen to shoot myself straight up when I try that.
Is there some kind of a "magic trick" to this or it it just a matter of sheer amount of practice?
In addition to the video posted above, if you want quick horizontal speed, it's best to do a rocket jump off a wall/corner. You don't get much height from it, but in exchange, you'll have a lot better horizontal speed and generally go farther in comparison to a standard rocket jump. It's the same motions as a standard rocket jump, except you're aiming at the corner/wall basically with an angle. You can also try pogo-ing for more distance and speed after a rocket jump, but it isn't as practical in most maps due to distance and health restrictions, but it can certainly surprise some people.
On July 20 2011 04:19 Airact wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to start asking these kinds of questions, but w/e, this is the most familiar community to me atm so might as well:
I'm getting interested in the Soldier class and want to start getting a bit better at it.
My question is: How does one perform a Long Rocket Jump? I know it's a combination of firing the rocket behind you, crouching and jumping at the same time, but I just happen to shoot myself straight up when I try that.
Is there some kind of a "magic trick" to this or it it just a matter of sheer amount of practice?
Also, what do you guys think about the new Soldier weapons(Liberty Launcher, Reserve Shooter, Market Gardener) or about the über update in general?
I support this video, he actually taught me how to do rocket-jumping and double-wall rocket jumping!
This is pretty much the definitive guide to rocket jumping. For me the trick was to simply get down the whole move-forward-then-strafe-and-shoot-behind-while-jumping-and-crouching sequence to the point where it was just a natural, smooth movement. It's hard in the beginning because it doesn't feel natural (you want to press forward so bad but you never should) but if you just repeat the movement enough it will eventually become second nature.
This just ruined the game trust me... You have no idea how much of pro-hacks is out there for Source engine..(there are sites that are checking everyday if their hacks are proof to VAC) now is basicaly nothing that will stop them from continue doing so.. sure he can get banned.. what will he do ? make another account...
Thank you for all the answers to the rocket jumping question and hopefully I can show some better Soldier(and why not some other class if I pick a secondary) play to anyone who manages to see me on the servers.
On July 20 2011 14:56 YosHGo wrote: This just ruined the game trust me... You have no idea how much of pro-hacks is out there for Source engine..(there are sites that are checking everyday if their hacks are proof to VAC) now is basicaly nothing that will stop them from continue doing so.. sure he can get banned.. what will he do ? make another account...
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I haven't seen hackers at least on the Valve servers. Then again, I can't spot "good" hackers.
I haven't spotted any lately, but over the years I have seen a lot of snipers that blatantly hack. And there were a lot of cases where I wasn't entirely sure one way or another. Most of those were closer to when the game first came out- although there was a period where I ran into a pretty steady stream of hacking snipers.
On July 21 2011 15:34 acker wrote: Which bright Valve employee thought this space soldier update was a good idea?!
*rage*
It seems like everyone is crying about the update.
Just like with SC2 I try to give it a week at least to work things out. But they will probably nerf it into the ground just like they do every time with the soldier.
On July 21 2011 00:15 zer0das wrote: I haven't spotted any lately, but over the years I have seen a lot of snipers that blatantly hack. And there were a lot of cases where I wasn't entirely sure one way or another. Most of those were closer to when the game first came out- although there was a period where I ran into a pretty steady stream of hacking snipers.
edit: just wanted to note im not calling you out specifically, just wanted to respond to this general notion
dont get me wrong, cause I do see the occasional hacker but... I'm a pretty average sniper and I get called a hacker all the time. Same for my other competitive friends, especially the ones who are actually good snipers.
It really isn't that hard to snipe pubbers(even scouts) close range, consistently. I know when I first started it was some amazing thing, but when you put a lot of time into the game it really isn't impressive. And any good sniper gets called a hacker on most servers, even getting banned occasionally
I just find it hard to believe a lot of these accusations, when people really don't understand how good players out there can be. They just don't usually bother dominating pubs unless they are just bored lol
On July 20 2011 04:19 Airact wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to start asking these kinds of questions, but w/e, this is the most familiar community to me atm so might as well:
I'm getting interested in the Soldier class and want to start getting a bit better at it.
My question is: How does one perform a Long Rocket Jump? I know it's a combination of firing the rocket behind you, crouching and jumping at the same time, but I just happen to shoot myself straight up when I try that.
Is there some kind of a "magic trick" to this or it it just a matter of sheer amount of practice?
Also, what do you guys think about the new Soldier weapons(Liberty Launcher, Reserve Shooter, Market Gardener) or about the über update in general?
Just wanted to say that air strafing for extra speed doesn't work any more. They patched that out a while ago, and is why bunny hopping is pretty much useless now. Jaeger does a good more advanced soldier jumping tutorial, but it is quite long
I've played the game since a month after launch, I've seen quite a few hackers. Sorry, but when a guy gets a headshot every single time, and you watch his first person view and see him headshotting guys rounding corners (and tracking them) before he should even have time to register them, it's a little blatant. There was a time where it was very difficult to play on a server without running into one.
I've seen one case of a hacker in the past year or so (didn't observe him first person so I didn't confirm it, but he was on my team and headshotting the entire enemy team at a rate that was entirely too high and consistent). I haven't seen another hacker where there is zero doubt at all in nearly two years. But they certainly exist, and they were a huge problem. There's all sorts of ways to disguise their use. VAC bans most of them... eventually. There is gap between when a hack comes out and when a person using it gets banned by VAC.
Personally I feel that once I get the hang of the new Cow Mangler, it's going to be so ridiculously overpowered in Soldier versus everything-else-than-a-Sentry-Gun and even against Sentries I can just sap them for 4 seconds and let my team handle it, or if I'm close enough, take my Shotgun and kill it.
The new secondary I don't know much about because I don't have it, but it shouldn't be an upgrade to the stock Shotgun.
Basically, the new Rocket Launcher is: +5 Rockets. Very important.
+Infinite reloadable ammunition. Not so important, but a straight upgrade.
+Can charge to use multiple rockets to inflict a mini-crit, splash damage burn effect and disables buildings for 4 seconds. Pretty useless except in organized team environment.
+Same damage as the stock launcher. It seems a bit lower than with the stock, but only like 5-10 damage on mid-long range.
- No random Criticals. It has been said that it doesn't crit with Kritz either, but still... No big deal at all. Not even nearly enough to cover 5 Rockets and the other good stuff. Also, non-crit servers.
-Very low damage against buildings. This makes Gunslinger Engineers a soft-counter to Soldier. Then again, 5 Rockets makes the Soldier better in every other matchup.
-A bit longer reload time. It takes 3.45 seconds to load 4 rockets to the stock launcher. It takes 3.95 seconds to reload 4 on this.
-A bit slower projectile speed. Makes you having to have a bit more skill in your shots, but still... 5 Rockets and infinite reloadable ammo promotes high ground spam.
It's kinda hilarious to see the first page of the steam TF2 forum's Soldier subforum be full of Cow Mangler 5000 balance whine and suggestions, spare 1-2 threads.
Well I've racked up 25 hours on this game so far and I haven't seen anyone whom I was certain was hacking. There have been a lot of snipers who get hits off me even when I'm jumping around, but that's probably just skill. Anyway even if they are hacking they sure aren't dominating.
Well, there are a few blatantly obvious hackers you encounter once in a while, but overall, hacking isn't really a big problem in TF2. There was/is one hack, that correct the spread of the heavy minigun, so at every range, every bullet will hit.
Anyone else a bit iffy on the new soldier weapons? The movement is a bit different with the laser gun, more floaty I noticed. Gonna have to readjust to that...
On July 22 2011 17:06 Kimaker wrote: Anyone else a bit iffy on the new soldier weapons? The movement is a bit different with the laser gun, more floaty I noticed. Gonna have to readjust to that...
I have a bit of a longer post on the last page about the new Soldier weapons and while my statement about the Launcher now is a bit different, aka not-so-OP-anymore, it feels very out-of-place and in good hands, OP.
Rocket Jumping is different with the new launcher and I prefer the stock because of that, as well as because I play pubs(no, I'm not good at this game) where Sentries exist.
There was no need for that weapon and it basically has no role.
On July 22 2011 17:18 ShocK822 wrote: This game is alright. It's a bit casual tbh. (I know hardcore TF2 fans will get super mad at me saying this, but from what I can tell, it's true.)
Sort of agreed. The playerbase isn't very skilled tbh. I can regularly top pub scoreboards as Scout or Soldier and I'm horrible as both. I have seen maybe 3 dudes total after the f2p transition that actually Rocket Jump as Soldiers and Demomen just try to Grenade Launcher their way through Scouts, which is questionable at best. Also, W + M1 Pyros, nomnom.
There are exceptions of course, but sadly, not that many.
I don't know maybe I'm too bad to play on "good servers" and good enough to top the scoreboards on valve/"bad" servers. I don't know any "good" servers to test my skill on.
Then again, this game requires ridiculous amounts of skill to be good.
On July 22 2011 17:25 Ausfailia wrote: I don't at all like playing against the new rocket launcher... the animation seems to make it difficult to track how fast the projectile's going which is a pain in the ass when trying to reflect it.
Not to mention the inevitable 6 soldiers per team spamming laser rockets at each other while the weapon's still new
As far as I know, the new Launcher has slower projectile speed, or the same projectile speed, as the stock launcher.
On July 22 2011 17:06 Kimaker wrote: Anyone else a bit iffy on the new soldier weapons? The movement is a bit different with the laser gun, more floaty I noticed. Gonna have to readjust to that...
I don't at all like playing against the new rocket launcher... the animation seems to make it difficult to track how fast the projectile's going which is a pain in the ass when trying to reflect it.
Not to mention the inevitable 6 soldiers per team spamming laser rockets at each other while the weapon's still new
Personally I feel that once I get the hang of the new Cow Mangler, it's going to be so ridiculously overpowered in Soldier versus everything-else-than-a-Sentry-Gun and even against Sentries I can just sap them for 4 seconds and let my team handle it, or if I'm close enough, take my Shotgun and kill it.
The new secondary I don't know much about because I don't have it, but it shouldn't be an upgrade to the stock Shotgun.
Basically, the new Rocket Launcher is: +5 Rockets. Very important.
+Infinite reloadable ammunition. Not so important, but a straight upgrade.
+Can charge to use multiple rockets to inflict a mini-crit, splash damage burn effect and disables buildings for 4 seconds. Pretty useless except in organized team environment.
+Same damage as the stock launcher. It seems a bit lower than with the stock, but only like 5-10 damage on mid-long range.
- No random Criticals. It has been said that it doesn't crit with Kritz either, but still... No big deal at all. Not even nearly enough to cover 5 Rockets and the other good stuff. Also, non-crit servers.
-Very low damage against buildings. This makes Gunslinger Engineers a soft-counter to Soldier. Then again, 5 Rockets makes the Soldier better in every other matchup.
-A bit longer reload time. It takes 3.45 seconds to load 4 rockets to the stock launcher. It takes 3.95 seconds to reload 4 on this.
-A bit slower projectile speed. Makes you having to have a bit more skill in your shots, but still... 5 Rockets and infinite reloadable ammo promotes high ground spam.
It's kinda hilarious to see the first page of the steam TF2 forum's Soldier subforum be full of Cow Mangler 5000 balance whine and suggestions, spare 1-2 threads.
I am not much of a fan of the Cow Mangler after playing against someone good who had it last night. If it had just one more downside it would be ok, but as it stands, it's just a really buffed regular launcher. The single downside it has is not an issue if you play on a non crit server
On July 25 2011 15:35 writer22816 wrote: Crafted a cow mangler because I heard it was imba. Anything else worth crafting? ^^
For Sniper: Bushwacka. Is this craftable? -A straight upgrade to the regular Kukri, except against the new Laz0r launcher and Pyros, which you should avoid anyway. Then again, it's hilarious to jump on a Pyro, throw a Jarate at him and full-crit with Bushwacka(Jarate allows minicrits, Bushwacka allows minicrits to be full-crits).
For Scout: Atomizer -You do lower damage with a Melee weapon as Scout but you can triple jump. Why not to? Then again, I use the Fish for the lulz as I haven't seen that much action to the 3rd jump. A straight upgrade to the normal Bat.
For Spy if you use Dead Ringer a lot: The Enforcer -A straight upgrade for Dead Ringer spys. The downside doesn't happen when using Dead Ringer.
For Pyro: The Degreaser -The downside is that afterburn isn't that strong anymore. No other downsides and it has weapon switch buff, which allows a Degreaser + Axtinguisher combo to be that much more effective.
For Heavy: Gloves of Running Urgently. Can this be crafted? -You don't use Melee, you run faster with these Gloves active, but take damage while they are out. Why not to?
Not anything else as far as I know that are actually worth using as main weapons. Liberty Launcher arguably yes, but I feel both the Laz0r Launcher and stock Launcher are better than Liberty Launcher, or Black Box if anybody actually thinks it's good.
For the note: I stopped using Liberty Launcher the moment I learned how to Rocket Jump and my opinion strenghtened when I learned how to aim with the Stock Launcher.
I use the stock because of the new reload nerf to the Laz0r Launcher and because Rocket Jumping is a bit better with Stock.
Some say Tomislav is good, but after it's nerf, I don't believe it's better than Sasha(stock Minigun).
I played this game a huge amount around release, I played on a team, was one of the first people to unlock the Ubersaw etc... I thought those systems were way better, unlocking weapons etc... The weapons used to be Alternatives instead of upgrades, they were style differences. I tried to play again recently, and I got completely destroyed by that ridiculous new soldier weapon. As if soldier wasn't the best class already? So unnecessary.
Anyway, for the people above saying you're topping random servers... Everyone good plays on locked servers, or on small population servers. You'll find some amazing people, and mostly bad people on servers like iO Gaming, Newbs, Lotus, Valve etc.
On July 25 2011 15:35 writer22816 wrote: Crafted a cow mangler because I heard it was imba. Anything else worth crafting? ^^
For Spy if you use Dead Ringer a lot: The Enforcer -A straight upgrade for Dead Ringer spys. The downside doesn't happen when using Dead Ringer.
If you use the Dead Ringer, The Big Earner is also a huge help. This lets you uncloak, backstab, and immideatly use the Dead Ringer again to escape (most of the time). the -25 health is really not a big issue with the dead ringer anyways (90% damage reduction)
On July 22 2011 17:06 Kimaker wrote: Anyone else a bit iffy on the new soldier weapons? The movement is a bit different with the laser gun, more floaty I noticed. Gonna have to readjust to that...
I just crafted the Cow Mangler but only did so after it was nerfed. It still feels a bit OP. It really should not have 5 rockets. Also while I'm using it I suddenly feel like playing a dumb ass and concentrate a bit too much on shooting charged shots.
I'll also take this opportunity to vent my hatred towards the Liberty Launcher. The most noob friendly weapon in the whole game, excluding the Huntsman.
On July 22 2011 23:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I have dapper topper for trade. The new laser gun is hilariously overpowered. I just killed 9 out of 11 people with it.
Is there anything in particular you're looking for? I want to get my hands on a dapper topper without spending money or infinite time
On July 25 2011 15:35 writer22816 wrote: Crafted a cow mangler because I heard it was imba. Anything else worth crafting? ^^
For Sniper: Bushwacka. Is this craftable? -A straight upgrade to the regular Kukri, except against the new Laz0r launcher and Pyros, which you should avoid anyway. Then again, it's hilarious to jump on a Pyro, throw a Jarate at him and full-crit with Bushwacka(Jarate allows minicrits, Bushwacka allows minicrits to be full-crits).
For Scout: Atomizer -You do lower damage with a Melee weapon as Scout but you can triple jump. Why not to? Then again, I use the Fish for the lulz as I haven't seen that much action to the 3rd jump. A straight upgrade to the normal Bat.
For Spy if you use Dead Ringer a lot: The Enforcer -A straight upgrade for Dead Ringer spys. The downside doesn't happen when using Dead Ringer.
For Pyro: The Degreaser -The downside is that afterburn isn't that strong anymore. No other downsides and it has weapon switch buff, which allows a Degreaser + Axtinguisher combo to be that much more effective.
For Heavy: Gloves of Running Urgently. Can this be crafted? -You don't use Melee, you run faster with these Gloves active, but take damage while they are out. Why not to?
Not anything else as far as I know that are actually worth using as main weapons. Liberty Launcher arguably yes, but I feel both the Laz0r Launcher and stock Launcher are better than Liberty Launcher, or Black Box if anybody actually thinks it's good.
For the note: I stopped using Liberty Launcher the moment I learned how to Rocket Jump and my opinion strenghtened when I learned how to aim with the Stock Launcher.
I use the stock because of the new reload nerf to the Laz0r Launcher and because Rocket Jumping is a bit better with Stock.
Some say Tomislav is good, but after it's nerf, I don't believe it's better than Sasha(stock Minigun).
while most of what you say is pretty true i actually wouldnt CRAFT any of them. way cheaper to get em through trades as you can get almost all of them just for a scrap each.
my suggestions of Weaps that a Strong or fun: 1. shortstop for scout. best allround weapon scout has. also later if you can maybe get the full set a 150hp scout with milk is loloOP
2. blackbox. still my favourite launcher when my team isnt esp good on the support side.
3. Wrangler for engineer. unlimited range sentries with shiny shields. horrible to play against, lotsa fun aiming around your super turret of destruction.
4. eternal reward. changes spy playstyle alot and makes it way harder to get the first stab in. but after that its imho the more fun way to play spy (again polycount set is very nice)
btw can help some starters out i guess with a reclaimed or 3 old weaps (need to buy em first since i barely have double weaps) each. first 3 get something, pls only somewhat longer TL members. i wanna give stuff to tl community members, not people that just stumbled over the site
/edit stupid me, f2p ppl cant trade right? can they craft? but they can recieve stuff iirc?
If anything is ever started, we usually play on Serejai's server which is NA based or where Paper puts on the site. I don't really play though because all he does is fucking Badwater.
Ah, you're a trader eh? I got out when things were becoming stable and organized.
started trading few weeks ago shortly after the uber update. im quite good at trading (playd d2 more as a economy sim then a rpg >.>) so my 3 uber weaps and some crates turned into quite the decent amount of hats/metal/keys ~~
trading is fun and you still find awesome deals sometimes if you know the market even with all the pricelists and established currency etc.
guess cant really play on NA servers. scout with 100+ ping isnt fun at all :/. medic/engy should be ok tho..
On July 25 2011 23:20 Stijx wrote: I played this game a huge amount around release, I played on a team, was one of the first people to unlock the Ubersaw etc... I thought those systems were way better, unlocking weapons etc... The weapons used to be Alternatives instead of upgrades, they were style differences. I tried to play again recently, and I got completely destroyed by that ridiculous new soldier weapon. As if soldier wasn't the best class already? So unnecessary.
Anyway, for the people above saying you're topping random servers... Everyone good plays on locked servers, or on small population servers. You'll find some amazing people, and mostly bad people on servers like iO Gaming, Newbs, Lotus, Valve etc.
Where did you get from that solly is the best class? It's clearly not.
On July 25 2011 23:20 Stijx wrote: I played this game a huge amount around release, I played on a team, was one of the first people to unlock the Ubersaw etc... I thought those systems were way better, unlocking weapons etc... The weapons used to be Alternatives instead of upgrades, they were style differences. I tried to play again recently, and I got completely destroyed by that ridiculous new soldier weapon. As if soldier wasn't the best class already? So unnecessary.
Anyway, for the people above saying you're topping random servers... Everyone good plays on locked servers, or on small population servers. You'll find some amazing people, and mostly bad people on servers like iO Gaming, Newbs, Lotus, Valve etc.
Where did you get from that solly is the best class? It's clearly not.
In my opinion it's pretty much tied to Soldier and Scout which one is the "best" class around.
In competitive TF most teams go 2 Scout 2 Soldier 1 Demo 1 Medic(Is this correct?) in 6v6 with situational classes used from time to time.
Soldier is, in my opinion, the most versatile class around. You are mobile(Rocket Jumping, Equalizer to escape), you do good damage(Rockets, Shotgun on close range deals insane damage) and your health is second only to the Heavy.
Scout on the other hand has insane mobility(Double/Triple Jump, Ludicrous Speed), ridiculous damage output(Scattergun dealing 100+ damage per shot on point-blank) and they can abuse opposing weaknesses(Fight Pyros with 40damage Scatters or with your Pistol, Fight Soldiers on mid-range, Flank Heavies and Demomen).
The other classes just specialize more than these two and possibly the Demoman and that's why I would call the Soldier and the Scout the two "best" classes.
Of course it's very opinion dependant, but I have my reasons to believe that these two are the best classes around.
Think you're overlooking the Demo a bit who do the most damage and have good movespeed and hp. I would say Demo/Scout/Sollys are up there jostling depending on the situation and map.
I'm not competitive player like you all, but a good demo is a pain in the fucking ass, perhaps moreso than any other class. This is as far as general playstyle of each race in all situations, not accounting for any particular build or whatever. Demos have a use in almost any situation. Scouts not so much, but soldiers are similar in their ability to be useful in a number of spots, but demo d can hold a bottleneck down like no one else
On July 25 2011 23:20 Stijx wrote: I played this game a huge amount around release, I played on a team, was one of the first people to unlock the Ubersaw etc... I thought those systems were way better, unlocking weapons etc... The weapons used to be Alternatives instead of upgrades, they were style differences. I tried to play again recently, and I got completely destroyed by that ridiculous new soldier weapon. As if soldier wasn't the best class already? So unnecessary.
Anyway, for the people above saying you're topping random servers... Everyone good plays on locked servers, or on small population servers. You'll find some amazing people, and mostly bad people on servers like iO Gaming, Newbs, Lotus, Valve etc.
Where did you get from that solly is the best class? It's clearly not.
In my opinion it's pretty much tied to Soldier and Scout which one is the "best" class around.
In competitive TF most teams go 2 Scout 2 Soldier 1 Demo 1 Medic(Is this correct?) in 6v6 with situational classes used from time to time.
Soldier is, in my opinion, the most versatile class around. You are mobile(Rocket Jumping, Equalizer to escape), you do good damage(Rockets, Shotgun on close range deals insane damage) and your health is second only to the Heavy.
Scout on the other hand has insane mobility(Double/Triple Jump, Ludicrous Speed), ridiculous damage output(Scattergun dealing 100+ damage per shot on point-blank) and they can abuse opposing weaknesses(Fight Pyros with 40damage Scatters or with your Pistol, Fight Soldiers on mid-range, Flank Heavies and Demomen).
The other classes just specialize more than these two and possibly the Demoman and that's why I would call the Soldier and the Scout the two "best" classes.
Of course it's very opinion dependant, but I have my reasons to believe that these two are the best classes around.
It's not very dependent on opinion.
When we are talking about insane/ridiculous damage, a demoman, when unpressured, can without much problem do more damage than 2 soldiers in a fight. And that's not even considering a sticky trap. Stickyjumps make him the fastest class, his weapons don't suffer from fall off damage the same way the other classes do and he can lock down an entrance on his own pretty easily. The pipe launcher is one of the best weapons in the game, the sticky launcher is the best weapon in the game.
On July 25 2011 23:20 Stijx wrote: I played this game a huge amount around release, I played on a team, was one of the first people to unlock the Ubersaw etc... I thought those systems were way better, unlocking weapons etc... The weapons used to be Alternatives instead of upgrades, they were style differences. I tried to play again recently, and I got completely destroyed by that ridiculous new soldier weapon. As if soldier wasn't the best class already? So unnecessary.
Anyway, for the people above saying you're topping random servers... Everyone good plays on locked servers, or on small population servers. You'll find some amazing people, and mostly bad people on servers like iO Gaming, Newbs, Lotus, Valve etc.
Where did you get from that solly is the best class? It's clearly not.
In my opinion it's pretty much tied to Soldier and Scout which one is the "best" class around.
In competitive TF most teams go 2 Scout 2 Soldier 1 Demo 1 Medic(Is this correct?) in 6v6 with situational classes used from time to time.
Soldier is, in my opinion, the most versatile class around. You are mobile(Rocket Jumping, Equalizer to escape), you do good damage(Rockets, Shotgun on close range deals insane damage) and your health is second only to the Heavy.
Scout on the other hand has insane mobility(Double/Triple Jump, Ludicrous Speed), ridiculous damage output(Scattergun dealing 100+ damage per shot on point-blank) and they can abuse opposing weaknesses(Fight Pyros with 40damage Scatters or with your Pistol, Fight Soldiers on mid-range, Flank Heavies and Demomen).
The other classes just specialize more than these two and possibly the Demoman and that's why I would call the Soldier and the Scout the two "best" classes.
Of course it's very opinion dependant, but I have my reasons to believe that these two are the best classes around.
It's not very dependent on opinion.
When we are talking about insane/ridiculous damage, a demoman, when unpressured, can without much problem do more damage than 2 soldiers in a fight. And that's not even considering a sticky trap. Stickyjumps make him the fastest class, his weapons don't suffer from fall off damage the same way the other classes do and he can lock down an entrance on his own pretty easily. The pipe launcher is one of the best weapons in the game, the sticky launcher is the best weapon in the game.
no falloff on direct hit pipes, but rollers and stickies do indeed have damage falloff
I'm currently working (slowly) on getting my fez so I can complete the Saharan Spy. 73 items is a long way to craft a hat!
As far as the "best" class it really is situational. I find Solider and Demo are really versatile. A good Sniper can pretty much hold a corridor or hall. Engie's are a must for long distance maps to keep pressure on front lines. Scouts can be the most annoying to fight in open spaces. Medic/Demo or Medic/Pyro can really bust sentries when uber'd. Etc...
On public servers however I usually get a team that goes 4 spy, 4 sniper, 3-4 other classes combined and they wonder why we lose...
On public servers however I usually get a team that goes 4 spy, 4 sniper, 3-4 other classes combined and they wonder why we lose...
I srsly get like 4-7 Engineers on either team at least once a day.
Is it me, or do you find Items that you found randomly in your inventory without getting the information? I check my inventory sometimes and there's something new
On July 25 2011 23:20 Stijx wrote: I played this game a huge amount around release, I played on a team, was one of the first people to unlock the Ubersaw etc... I thought those systems were way better, unlocking weapons etc... The weapons used to be Alternatives instead of upgrades, they were style differences. I tried to play again recently, and I got completely destroyed by that ridiculous new soldier weapon. As if soldier wasn't the best class already? So unnecessary.
Anyway, for the people above saying you're topping random servers... Everyone good plays on locked servers, or on small population servers. You'll find some amazing people, and mostly bad people on servers like iO Gaming, Newbs, Lotus, Valve etc.
Where did you get from that solly is the best class? It's clearly not.
In my opinion it's pretty much tied to Soldier and Scout which one is the "best" class around.
In competitive TF most teams go 2 Scout 2 Soldier 1 Demo 1 Medic(Is this correct?) in 6v6 with situational classes used from time to time.
Soldier is, in my opinion, the most versatile class around. You are mobile(Rocket Jumping, Equalizer to escape), you do good damage(Rockets, Shotgun on close range deals insane damage) and your health is second only to the Heavy.
Scout on the other hand has insane mobility(Double/Triple Jump, Ludicrous Speed), ridiculous damage output(Scattergun dealing 100+ damage per shot on point-blank) and they can abuse opposing weaknesses(Fight Pyros with 40damage Scatters or with your Pistol, Fight Soldiers on mid-range, Flank Heavies and Demomen).
The other classes just specialize more than these two and possibly the Demoman and that's why I would call the Soldier and the Scout the two "best" classes.
Of course it's very opinion dependant, but I have my reasons to believe that these two are the best classes around.
It's not very dependent on opinion.
When we are talking about insane/ridiculous damage, a demoman, when unpressured, can without much problem do more damage than 2 soldiers in a fight. And that's not even considering a sticky trap. Stickyjumps make him the fastest class, his weapons don't suffer from fall off damage the same way the other classes do and he can lock down an entrance on his own pretty easily. The pipe launcher is one of the best weapons in the game, the sticky launcher is the best weapon in the game.
no falloff on direct hit pipes, but rollers and stickies do indeed have damage falloff
No, rollers do the same damage at any range. The stickies do have fall-off damage for 5 seconds of their life, after that, they deal full damage at any range as well.
Oh uhhh I have a question. What is the purpose of crates? Are we supposed to buy keys to open them or something? I have like 8 or so crates and have no idea what to do with them.
On July 26 2011 10:22 BloodNinja wrote: Okay then, so what are crates worth then? I have no interest in buying keys.
It varies wildly depending on what series the crate is.
Apparently the single digit series are relatively valuable, and the most recent (21-27?) are kind of valuable cause they give strange weapons. However, take my words with a grain of salt, I'm not great in trading.
On July 26 2011 10:22 BloodNinja wrote: Okay then, so what are crates worth then? I have no interest in buying keys.
Crates were introduced as a way for Valve to make more money. You might be able to find someone willing to trade for them on various TF2 trading sites but don't expect much more than very common items in exchange for your crates. Generally crates are either just given away or traded for other crates.
But you could try to go to one of many TF2 trading sites and see if someone is interested...just be careful.
On July 26 2011 10:22 BloodNinja wrote: Okay then, so what are crates worth then? I have no interest in buying keys.
Crates were introduced as a way for Valve to make more money. You might be able to find someone willing to trade for them on various TF2 trading sites but don't expect much more than very common items in exchange for your crates. Generally crates are either just given away or traded for other crates.
But you could try to go to one of many TF2 trading sites and see if someone is interested...just be careful.
In that case anyone here want to trade for some crates? Rather trade it in community if possible. Crates #19 (x5), 20, 23 ,25 (x2).
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
It's not uncommon for bad players to fervently believe they are actually great snipers. For some reason, a lot of people tend to believe they have great aim even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Ever since the update with the new soldier weapons I have been getting terrible FPS. Anyone know of ways to reduce the explosions sprites or something to reduce the graphics (I have an old laptop that has to run on low everything)
On July 26 2011 16:12 Nem0 wrote: Ever since the update with the new soldier weapons I have been getting terrible FPS. Anyone know of ways to reduce the explosions sprites or something to reduce the graphics (I have an old laptop that has to run on low everything)
I haven't played since before the game went free to play. I think once Witcher 2 came out I played that and never got back 'into' TF2.
So I smelted my entire backpack into metal, but from the number of metals + paints I have, you should get the idea of what it used to look like. Go into my history, I had 5 unusuals that I gave to clanmates for free.
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
wall pinning is sweet.
Really? I feel it's the other way around, if I have my mic and I order a medic to stick with me and just guide him through the whole process, we usually win/get a lot of kills/I get a dedicated medic.
As that Engi, I love to wrangle that asswipe sniper who thinks he found this perfect angle from which to pick off my teammates from afar.
However, I am having much more fun right now playing the super offensive engi with mini turrets in random chokes to load up mini-crits on my frontier justice on the front line.
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 27 2011 02:57 dukethegold wrote:
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
wall pinning is sweet.
Really? I feel it's the other way around, if I have my mic and I order a medic to stick with me and just guide him through the whole process, we usually win/get a lot of kills/I get a dedicated medic.
I play (played) mostly medic, and I can tell you straight up.
Medic without a mic is almost rage-worthy. You spam your I AM UBERING YOU macro in chat...and the guy backs up or fires all of his rockets before you deploy or something.
Torte and I should play medic / heavy combo, we'd wreck some pubs. FITH played in a couple leagues back in soldier/demo update era and I was the team medic, I'm so pro status.
On July 27 2011 03:11 BloodNinja wrote: As that Engi, I love to wrangle that asswipe sniper who thinks he found this perfect angle from which to pick off my teammates from afar.
However, I am having much more fun right now playing the super offensive engi with mini turrets in random chokes to load up mini-crits on my frontier justice on the front line.
As that asswipe sniper you were describing, I love putting a bullet in the head of an engi who is still trying to place their sentry.
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 27 2011 02:57 dukethegold wrote:
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
wall pinning is sweet.
Really? I feel it's the other way around, if I have my mic and I order a medic to stick with me and just guide him through the whole process, we usually win/get a lot of kills/I get a dedicated medic.
I play (played) mostly medic, and I can tell you straight up.
Medic without a mic is almost rage-worthy. You spam your I AM UBERING YOU macro in chat...and the guy backs up or fires all of his rockets before you deploy or something.
Torte and I should play medic / heavy combo, we'd wreck some pubs. FITH played in a couple leagues back in soldier/demo update era and I was the team medic, I'm so pro status.
I have more posts than Torte. :O
See, the real issue is that no one is really communicating or controlling the pair. Whether the medic is the observant directory one or the offensive unit. Someone needs to be directing/driving the force.
When I'm with someone, I tell them what I am doing, what I see, to check behind me for spies (or that I will). I tell him to stand around corners because I'm exposing myself to take more damage to get uber fast or to do some poking around.
I tell him not to stray too far, to heal XYZ unit near us, to overheal him, to pop uber when I say, to get ready to pop uber, to tell him where we are popping uber. Tell him where we are going, what are the plans (kill the soldier, go for the sentry, drop down back onto the cart, etc.).
Three rules when I play with a medic that usually keeps him alive and myself. They're obvious for most people: Never go in front of me 2. Pop uber if you take any sort of damage, I can work better with heals a lost uber than the other way around. 3. Leave me if I'm going to die.
Blackrobe is pretty good, he can attest for how we/I play :B
lol that's all stuff I KNOW because I'm an ex-league medic. Haha. I spoil people I play with because I already do all that stuff, and people know that I do it...
I guess I take more of the role of the observer. You shoot, I'll take care of the rest...which I feel like is my job as a support unit. Your job is to point your gun at people and go nuts.
I think you and I wouldn't work out as a pair because I hate it when people try and tell me things that I'm already doing, rofl. XD
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 27 2011 02:57 dukethegold wrote:
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
wall pinning is sweet.
Really? I feel it's the other way around, if I have my mic and I order a medic to stick with me and just guide him through the whole process, we usually win/get a lot of kills/I get a dedicated medic.
I did it yeterday for a round or two after no one else would step up. I pretty much spent most of my ubers by following a dude who looked like he was gonna charge and stops just after I say go
At least one person needs a mic there, but two is obviously prefered.
On July 27 2011 03:11 BloodNinja wrote: As that Engi, I love to wrangle that asswipe sniper who thinks he found this perfect angle from which to pick off my teammates from afar.
However, I am having much more fun right now playing the super offensive engi with mini turrets in random chokes to load up mini-crits on my frontier justice on the front line.
I've seen more people do this now
engi is usually too passive for me. I'll eventually start having fun, only to get my shit ruined by a coordinated uber
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 27 2011 02:57 dukethegold wrote:
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
wall pinning is sweet.
Really? I feel it's the other way around, if I have my mic and I order a medic to stick with me and just guide him through the whole process, we usually win/get a lot of kills/I get a dedicated medic.
I did it yeterday for a round or two after no one else would step up. I pretty much spent most of my ubers by following a dude who looked like he was gonna charge and stops just after I say go
At least one person needs a mic there, but two is obviously prefered.
On July 27 2011 03:11 BloodNinja wrote: As that Engi, I love to wrangle that asswipe sniper who thinks he found this perfect angle from which to pick off my teammates from afar.
However, I am having much more fun right now playing the super offensive engi with mini turrets in random chokes to load up mini-crits on my frontier justice on the front line.
I've seen more people do this now
engi is usually too passive for me. I'll eventually start having fun, only to get my shit ruined by a coordinated uber
I don't think you need two with a mic. Just a medic who will push people to do what they need. I love playing Pub-medic because I'm (egooooo) a really good medic and people are blown away at what a non-retard behind the medic can do. Haha.
Constantly telling people to back up, if I stop healing someone to get someone who is at red health to at least half, I tell them so they don't run off, always keeping an eye out for shit behind us and calling it out...I mean, personally, the way I play medic, I could be the only one with voice chat and I feel like I'd be fine. :p
On July 27 2011 03:40 Hawk wrote: Yeah, calling out spies that retard pub pyros miss is the #1 reason you need mics !!! Fuck that angered me yesterday.
Degroot keep is such a good way to end the night after playing
On July 27 2011 03:40 Hawk wrote: Yeah, calling out spies that retard pub pyros miss is the #1 reason you need mics !!! Fuck that angered me yesterday.
Degroot keep is such a good way to end the night after playing
lol the KGB on red on the final point is so satisfying, hahaha.
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
wall pinning is sweet.
My favourite part of sniping has to be when I realize my shot is going to be wide only to end up headshotting a cloaked spy.
Although last night I had 5 dominations as a sniper on 2 fort only to have 6-7 snipers appear on the other team. That was fun too.
The most satisfying class I find is spy though. You need to use the regular watch though. Nothing quite like a 5 chain BS spree on a bridge or battlements.
On July 27 2011 02:44 Torte de Lini wrote: I think I enjoy syringe fighting people more than bowhunting.
I keep on forgetting I've got the medic crossbow and that's pretty fun if you're ok with it. I lost my mic though and medic is a pain in the ass without one though
On July 27 2011 02:57 dukethegold wrote:
On July 26 2011 11:20 KezseN wrote: why does everybody love the sniper class so much...? especially in KOTH maps :S
I found it to be the most satisfying class to play. There is a small sense of accomplishment in every headshot, especially when the dead one is another sniper.
also this. I love breaking up medic-assault combos right before they can uber, and picking off that little shithead engi who thinks he found the rocket proof corner for his sentry
wall pinning is sweet.
Really? I feel it's the other way around, if I have my mic and I order a medic to stick with me and just guide him through the whole process, we usually win/get a lot of kills/I get a dedicated medic.
I did it yeterday for a round or two after no one else would step up. I pretty much spent most of my ubers by following a dude who looked like he was gonna charge and stops just after I say go
At least one person needs a mic there, but two is obviously prefered.
On July 27 2011 03:11 BloodNinja wrote: As that Engi, I love to wrangle that asswipe sniper who thinks he found this perfect angle from which to pick off my teammates from afar.
However, I am having much more fun right now playing the super offensive engi with mini turrets in random chokes to load up mini-crits on my frontier justice on the front line.
I've seen more people do this now
engi is usually too passive for me. I'll eventually start having fun, only to get my shit ruined by a coordinated uber
Thats why I love the mini-sentry style. As I only pub I gave up expecting my team to hold long enough to allow me to get setup in a good spot. Since I play 99% payload maps I find ledge, corner, or random rock near my team and set up shop. Of course the same could apply on other maps as well.
Edit - I love talkative medics when I play heavy, I never pay attention to spies. I just shoot the crap out of whoever in front of me, if theres a spy behind me I wouldn't know. I feel like the heavy from the intro video.
On July 27 2011 05:28 Torenhire wrote: lol that's after like an hour of playtime though!
Turbine is such a bad map TT
No, it's a great map! It never ends and your actions almost have no consequences because as long as the base defenses are up, it's almost impossible to win or lose!
It makes practicing your gameplay and aim really good!
And yeah, it was only an hour on gameplay. The good ol' days D:
On July 27 2011 04:56 Andymoo wrote: Torte, I would be honored to medic-bot you.
How do the item unlocks work in this game? I got like 13 items the first night I played the game and haven't got one unlock since then. I've read that it is random but 0 items in like 12 hours of gameplay doesn't seem quite right.
On July 27 2011 06:03 Nightmare1795 wrote: How do the item unlocks work in this game? I got like 13 items the first night I played the game and haven't got one unlock since then. I've read that it is random but 0 items in like 12 hours of gameplay doesn't seem quite right.
Either do the achievements and get the first unlocked bonus sets. or just play. They drop weekly ranging from 6 to 13 items a week and it resets every Wednesday or Thursday.
On July 27 2011 05:54 Torenhire wrote: Usually when Turbine happens I just sit in the vent and tauntkill as a pyro or a scout.
No spy? For shame.
No one likes spies. No one.
You're playing it wrong then. Nothing is more hilarious than running spy on BLU and having your friend run Medic on RED.
Oh and remember: sapping sentries doesn't break disguise. Angry engineers yelling at the medic that he's healing a spy while simultaneously trying to kill him with their shotguns doesn't break disguise.
I would love to actually play Sniper, but I know I'm so horrible at it(I sometimes overaim even moving Heavies T_T. I cannot even headshot Rocket/Sticky Jumpers/Airscouts) so I'm not playing because there is just no use for a bad Sniper in a team.
Most of the time it's just goofing around: Dual Medic with my friend(The Overdose/Syringe Gun, Medigun, Ubersaw for both and Chain-Ubering for noob dominating). Dual Engineers(one with Wrangler, one repairing, walling off from spies as much as possible and killing spies). Pyro/Medic(31 points in one life as the Pyro, my internet connection fails before I leave the server so it apparently didn't register).
Or some other random shit. I can't say those things are useful for the team, but at least they are more useful than being a bad Sniper.
I'm at a LAN and we're just played TF2 doing some Pub stomping and I played heavy with my friend (never played Tf2) played medic, this is what happened : It was so much fun, another friend (already disced when I took the screenshot) played scout and killed the opponents medics
It appears to not suffer from a slower uber charge rate if someone is at full health. I'm guessing that the way ubers are coded, it doesn't trigger half speed charge unless someone is fully overhealed. As the Quick Fix can't do that, it gets full charge pretty much all the time.
No overheal still hurts (and the uber is of course not invulnerability - does shit all against sentries) but after messing with it for a bit, it seems a bit more useful than I initially thought.
How do the item unlocks work in this game? I got like 13 items the first night I played the game and haven't got one unlock since then. I've read that it is random but 0 items in like 12 hours of gameplay doesn't seem quite right.
On July 27 2011 06:03 Nightmare1795 wrote: How do the item unlocks work in this game? I got like 13 items the first night I played the game and haven't got one unlock since then. I've read that it is random but 0 items in like 12 hours of gameplay doesn't seem quite right.
Either do the achievements and get the first unlocked bonus sets. or just play. They drop weekly ranging from 6 to 13 items a week and it resets every Wednesday or Thursday.
Yeah sadly a result of idle servers (not that I minded since I idled a lot >.>) and/or the manconmy update (Valve needs $$ some how). It used to be 20% chance to obtain an item every 20 minutes (effectively 1% chance per minute) but with no item cap. So a person could just idle 24/7 and always obtain items.
There's a cap on items gained per week now which is fine since it does keep the economy somewhat stable (now with trading implement that is) and allows most players to be able to compete with anyone to buy and/or sell items.
I played this game for a bit. It's not exactly my style. The people move waaayyyyyy too quick for me to get an accurate hold on. By the time I get them in my sights, and push down my mouse trigger, they're all the way across the room! I think I'm gonna stick with SC2, tbh, but I can see how this game gets so much attntion from gamers...
Different classes, different weapons and styles... it is interesting...
On July 27 2011 10:29 FinnGamer wrote: I'm at a LAN and we're just played TF2 doing some Pub stomping and I played heavy with my friend (never played Tf2) played medic, this is what happened : It was so much fun, another friend (already disced when I took the screenshot) played scout and killed the opponents medics
2fort Lotus Clan 32 man server Tomislav heavy Nothing special to see here, move along.
On July 27 2011 19:04 Badjas wrote: I am happy to report that framerate in this game is way better on internet games, than it is in practice mode.
Also, people move very fast.. scouts are OP. Does framerate make a large difference in this respect? I'm talking 20fps versus 70fps.
Framerate always makes a difference, especially when we are talking under 100fps.
Yeah Scouts pretty much kill every support class for breakfast unless they are bad and run into Jarate/Bushwacka melee range. They also kill everyone who cannot aim while they can so you should be a bit careful when engaging Scouts.
Talking about fast: We were a Heavy/Medic pair on Well CTF, camping on their Intelligence spot when a teammate had it picked up. A Demoman charges from the door, onto the staircase fence and flies in the air a thousand miles an hour just to hit me in the face and instantly killing me(The Medic).
On July 27 2011 19:04 Badjas wrote: I am happy to report that framerate in this game is way better on internet games, than it is in practice mode.
Also, people move very fast.. scouts are OP. Does framerate make a large difference in this respect? I'm talking 20fps versus 70fps.
You generally want above 30 FPS. It's also important to have a consistent FPS. It's a lot easier to aim if you get a constant 60 FPS than if your FPS constantly fluctuates from 40 to 120.
On July 27 2011 13:08 Vortok wrote: Got a Quick Fix and gave it a go.
It appears to not suffer from a slower uber charge rate if someone is at full health. I'm guessing that the way ubers are coded, it doesn't trigger half speed charge unless someone is fully overhealed. As the Quick Fix can't do that, it gets full charge pretty much all the time.
No overheal still hurts (and the uber is of course not invulnerability - does shit all against sentries) but after messing with it for a bit, it seems a bit more useful than I initially thought.
How do the item unlocks work in this game? I got like 13 items the first night I played the game and haven't got one unlock since then. I've read that it is random but 0 items in like 12 hours of gameplay doesn't seem quite right.
Its really good for rapidly healing other people. If you can get another medic to overheal someone, then you can keep that overheal going as well untill he takes dmg.
Imo, the Quick Fix is better when you're alone on pug servers (and hilarious when attached to a scout). But unless you can utilize it with some weird tactics, invulnerability is too much to give up when playing serious.
On July 27 2011 23:17 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: btw i guess you have a config in tf2 like other shooters? any must have settings? also can you increase fov above the lowlow menu limit?
Most options you'll ever need can be found in the "advanced" section under "multiplayer". They have really put a lot of thought into the different styles people might want to use.
On July 27 2011 23:17 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: btw i guess you have a config in tf2 like other shooters? any must have settings? also can you increase fov above the lowlow menu limit?
The cap is what the menu gives you and you should turn on hit beeps and the option that shows you how much damage you've done on hit. When the second option is turned on it makes it really easy to gauge how much health your opponent has so you know whether you should continue fighting them or run.
Just played a bunch of games on Hightower (payload race). Running on a 20ms ping. Sweet ^_^ my computer can handle it just fine.
In how far can TL be a community in TF2? Regular private fights at specific intervals? I heard a private server is in the works, curious to hear how that's going.
The final event, taking place tomorrow (Thursday the 28th), is the Free-2-Play Invitational Tournament! Four top teams from other known competitive games will battle it out on cp_badlands in an action-packed one-night tournament, with all teams playing each other once to decide which team can handle competitive TF2 best. The teams will be supported by a TF2 top division medic. The teams are CKRAS from CSS (mentored by Denmark F2), Xotic from L4D2 (mentored by Netherlands skeej) and the Epsilon eSports teams from both Brink (mentored by Ireland Admirable) and CoD4 (mentored by France KnOxXx).
The match timetable is as follows:
Round 1 – 20:00 CEST: CKRAS CSS vs Epsilon CoD Epsilon Brink vs Xotic L4D2
Round 2 – 20:30 CEST: CKRAS CSS vs Xotic L4D2 Epsilon Brink vs Epsilon CoD4
Round 3 – 21:00 CEST: CKRAS CSS vs Epsilon Brink Xotic L4D2 vs Epsilon CoD4
Final - 21:30 CEST: (top 2 teams with the most wins)
The champion will get to play a team with the endbosses of TF2:
Robin Walker (head of TF2 development) Jon Lippincott (TF2 Replay system development) TotalBiscuit (of YouTube commentary fame) Dr. Gonzo (Editor of Cadred) TheSucker (medic for ETF2L highlander champions, SNSD) Macisum (top division demoman)
Got into tf2 because of this thread two or three weeks ago have alot of fun as spy and sometimes soldier/demo.
My question is about those stupid crates. I do get a lot of them and the numbers are all around 19-25 but those are for specific classes i don't really want any items for. So is there a series for little spies like me ? If so is anyone willing to trade 1-2 for other crates?
Don't like it, but I like the new soldier shotgun (the laser thing). It only does 16 damage per shot, so I don't know if it's worthwhile, since I use my shotty as a finisher.
On July 29 2011 04:23 kojji wrote: My question is about those stupid crates. I do get a lot of them and the numbers are all around 19-25 but those are for specific classes i don't really want any items for. So is there a series for little spies like me ? If so is anyone willing to trade 1-2 for other crates?
I'm looking to trade a strange Chargin Targe for another strange weapon.
I'm looking for strange weapons, these being my top picks: Sniper Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Scotish Resistance, or any of the Heavy's guns. Above these I'm open to any suggestions.
I've been asking in a couple servers for a couple days, but no one ever has anything good enough to trade. PM me on TL if you're interested.
On July 27 2011 23:17 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: btw i guess you have a config in tf2 like other shooters? any must have settings? also can you increase fov above the lowlow menu limit?
The cap is what the menu gives you and you should turn on hit beeps and the option that shows you how much damage you've done on hit. When the second option is turned on it makes it really easy to gauge how much health your opponent has so you know whether you should continue fighting them or run.
I'd add Widescreen mode onto that list - it adds about 20 degress to your viewing angle, and a resolution that's native to your monitor.
if anyone wants to join us in competitive style matches join #teamliquidtf2 on quakenet and we'll see if we can get enough for a full lobby team or even an in-house
On August 05 2011 03:55 mahnini wrote: if anyone wants to join us in competitive style matches join #teamliquidtf2 on quakenet and we'll see if we can get enough for a full lobby team or even an in-house
I would love to join, but I really lack the confidence to think I'm good enough as well as the ability to actually be good enough. I might join the irc channel to troll/chat around/do random stuff tho.
Anyway, have the opinions changed about the new "Rocket" Launcher as the Steam forums have been not so active with the topic lately? -I think that the extra reload nerf made the Launcher at least balanced, but I don't have the ability to really call it.
Do you guys have any suggestions about how to practice aiming with Scout/Soldier? Are there any specific server types/something else, or should I just play CP5's which I already do?
On August 05 2011 03:55 mahnini wrote: if anyone wants to join us in competitive style matches join #teamliquidtf2 on quakenet and we'll see if we can get enough for a full lobby team or even an in-house
Joined.
For practicing aim, there are dm and mge servers, but teamplay is way more important than dm ability.
Semi-finals should be starting at 20:00 CET. I assume the match that will be broadcasted is Ze Germans vs SG-1, which should be quite good.
If you don't want to watch it through a stream and want to control the camera yourself you can connect to an stv relay inside the game itself. Just type one of the following two adresses into the console:
On August 06 2011 02:39 prOxi.Beater wrote: Semi-finals should be starting at 20:00 CET. I assume the match that will be broadcasted is Ze Germans vs SG-1, which should be quite good.
If you don't want to watch it through a stream and want to control the camera yourself you can connect to an stv relay inside the game itself. Just type one of the following two adresses into the console:
connect troopers.fi:27020
connect 145.92.203.100:27100
Yep. The other match is NE.PENTIA(illegal) vs Anexis. Just talked with one of the players of Illegal. They are all drunk :-)
Hi guys, I would like to ask a question. Is it possible to find a " direct hit " without the achievment ? I'm asking because i would like to create the " black box " and I don't want to use the " direct hit " that I unlocked with achievments. Is it rare ?
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. How do I open those crates ? Do i need a key ? Where can I find that key ? Right now I have 3 crates that are basically useless :|
My suggestion is to look for someone trading the BlackBox for 1-1.5 scrap, crafting it from the direct hit is much more expensive. You can pick up a direct hit for a scrap too. Go look around (maybe even the steam powered user forum) and you should be able to easily procure them.
On August 18 2011 16:28 BlitzerSC wrote: Hi guys, I would like to ask a question. Is it possible to find a " direct hit " without the achievment ? I'm asking because i would like to create the " black box " and I don't want to use the " direct hit " that I unlocked with achievments. Is it rare ?
You can find the Direct Hit. It has the same drop rate as any other weapon.
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. How do I open those crates ? Do i need a key ? Where can I find that key ? Right now I have 3 crates that are basically useless :|
The only way to get keys is to buy them or trade with somebody who bought them. Crates are just an invitation from Valve to spend money.
Has the MGE mod pretty much gone into Soldier wars?
I don't dislike playing Soldier and I would do it if somebody asks me to(not in the comp scene so at least not yet), but I would love to practice my Scout aim which is pretty hard to do when everybody wants a Soldier, or Sniper 1v1 on MGE.
Has the MGE DM practice mod become a Soldier/Sniper-only practice mod?
Hey guys I just started playing TF2 a couple days ago, and I would like to have the opinion of fellow TL'ers about the effectiveness of the "Quick-fix" compared to the standard Medigun.
So I came to understand that the 8s invincibility granted by the Medigun is more powerful than the +300% healing + stun/knockback/slowdown immunity provided by the Quick-fix. But from my experience, I usually have a hard time fulling charging the Medigun, a lot of times I end up dead when it's 80-99% charged, and that's very frustrating. On the contrary, with the Quick-fix I sometimes get 4-7 ubercharges per life, not to mention the +40% healing and the speed bonus.
So yesterday a guy told me "hey use the medigun, don't use the quick-fix it's shit". Can anyone enlighten me about this? To me the Medigun is very useful at the start of the games, mostly in attack-defense mode, but other than that, overall I feel more effective with the Quickfix. Maybe the reson why this guy told me that is because of the 150% overhealing buff? Is this buff that big of a deal? Thanks.
On September 18 2011 03:34 AlBundy wrote: Hey guys I just started playing TF2 a couple days ago, and I would like to have the opinion of fellow TL'ers about the effectiveness of the "Quick-fix" compared to the standard Medigun.
So I came to understand that the 8s invincibility granted by the Medigun is more powerful than the +300% healing + stun/knockback/slowdown immunity provided by the Quick-fix. But from my experience, I usually have a hard time fulling charging the Medigun, a lot of times I end up dead when it's 80-99% charged, and that's very frustrating. On the contrary, with the Quick-fix I sometimes get 4-7 ubercharges per life, not to mention the +40% healing and the speed bonus.
So yesterday a guy told me "hey use the medigun, don't use the quick-fix it's shit". Can anyone enlighten me about this? To me the Medigun is very useful at the start of the games, mostly in attack-defense mode, but other than that, overall I feel more effective with the Quickfix. Maybe the reson why this guy told me that is because of the 150% overhealing buff? Is this buff that big of a deal? Thanks.
I see it as more of a playstyle choice, I prefer the quick fix becuase I'm a "Share the love" medic where I like to keep everyone healed at full and not stick to one person and keep them over healed. But i still choose the Medigun when the situation is called for, I prefer the medigun for PL maps, capture points. i use the Quick fix for KOTH maps and attack defend.
On September 18 2011 03:34 AlBundy wrote: Hey guys I just started playing TF2 a couple days ago, and I would like to have the opinion of fellow TL'ers about the effectiveness of the "Quick-fix" compared to the standard Medigun.
So I came to understand that the 8s invincibility granted by the Medigun is more powerful than the +300% healing + stun/knockback/slowdown immunity provided by the Quick-fix. But from my experience, I usually have a hard time fulling charging the Medigun, a lot of times I end up dead when it's 80-99% charged, and that's very frustrating. On the contrary, with the Quick-fix I sometimes get 4-7 ubercharges per life, not to mention the +40% healing and the speed bonus.
So yesterday a guy told me "hey use the medigun, don't use the quick-fix it's shit". Can anyone enlighten me about this? To me the Medigun is very useful at the start of the games, mostly in attack-defense mode, but other than that, overall I feel more effective with the Quickfix. Maybe the reson why this guy told me that is because of the 150% overhealing buff? Is this buff that big of a deal? Thanks.
Quick-fix has one major setback: No Overheal. Overheal basically gives Your Soldiers/Demos ability to freely rocket jump without losing their health. Overheal is like being behind them, but being at the other side of the river at once. One of the most important things when You play TF2: If You see the other team has a medic who overheals entire team, You need to get Your own medic or prepare to loose.
On September 18 2011 03:34 AlBundy wrote: Hey guys I just started playing TF2 a couple days ago, and I would like to have the opinion of fellow TL'ers about the effectiveness of the "Quick-fix" compared to the standard Medigun.
So I came to understand that the 8s invincibility granted by the Medigun is more powerful than the +300% healing + stun/knockback/slowdown immunity provided by the Quick-fix. But from my experience, I usually have a hard time fulling charging the Medigun, a lot of times I end up dead when it's 80-99% charged, and that's very frustrating. On the contrary, with the Quick-fix I sometimes get 4-7 ubercharges per life, not to mention the +40% healing and the speed bonus.
So yesterday a guy told me "hey use the medigun, don't use the quick-fix it's shit". Can anyone enlighten me about this? To me the Medigun is very useful at the start of the games, mostly in attack-defense mode, but other than that, overall I feel more effective with the Quickfix. Maybe the reson why this guy told me that is because of the 150% overhealing buff? Is this buff that big of a deal? Thanks.
Quick-Fix is terrible because there is very little that "slows" you. In addition, no overheal to the classes you should be healing, so it's fucking pointless.
Yes, the 150% overheal is incredible and much needed. Heavies need it to live and soldiers need it for rocket jumps and survivability.
The quick-fix doesn't heal fast enough to take down sentries nor fighting other heavy-medics. It's shit because it's "heal faster" is fucking pointless. It's good for arena when you need to heal everyone faster and such, but other than that. It's pointless.
To prevent yourself from dying, leaving the person you're healing if you see them going to die faster than you can heal. That should keep you alive long enough to find someone new.
You write connect 192.168.1.101:1337 in the console (remove those numbers and put in the ip)
If u dont know how to get the console right click team fortress 2 on steam and press properties and then take like Set start command (or something like that) and then write -console and press ok and start the game now u can use the console (atleast thats how its used to be they might have added so you just have to press §)
Hey guys I just bought a hat so now I have a premium account, and steam tells me that I have the opportunity to thank a friend who refered me. So I don't know what it's about, anyway I don't know anyone on steam so if a TL'er wants to get it, just tell me your ID.
I bought a hat too, just a day ago. Respect the devs
I want your opinion: How to use a microphone with this game. How do you use it? What's definitely not useful, and stuff...
Also, are there people who want to do some casual teaming in europe evenings? I don't have a schedule, or it is implied by my family ;-) Let's discuss.
On October 14 2011 11:57 Existential wrote: New update today http://www.teamfortress.com/manniversary/ People's thoughts? Sides from the game crashing every 5 minutes.....
On October 14 2011 12:36 Torte de Lini wrote: :/ No new items.
you are so wrong my dear friend
New weapons Bootlegger (demoman) Scottish Handshake (demoman) Conscientious Objector (all classes except spy and engineer)
Everything else Manniversary Paper Hat Your Worst Nightmare One-Man Army Counterfeit Billycock Outdoorsman Tavish DeGroot Experience Pencil Pusher Builder's Blueprints Buccaneer's Bicorne A Whiff of the Old Brimstone Salty Dog Little Budd Gym Rat Hot Dogger Birdcage Surgeon's Stahlhelm Backwards Ballcap Crocodile Smile Flair! Couvre Corner Surgeon's Stethoscope L'Inspecteur Photo Badge Clan Pride Swagman's Swatte Flamboyant Flamenco Virtual Reality Headse Spectre's Spectacles Stereoscopic Shades Hat With No Name Cremator's Conscience Hermes
On October 14 2011 12:36 Torte de Lini wrote: :/ No new items.
you are so wrong my dear friend
New weps Bootlegger Scottish Handshake Conscientious Objector
Everything else Manniversary Paper Hat Your Worst Nightmare One-Man Army Counterfeit Billycock Outdoorsman Tavish DeGroot Experience Pencil Pusher Builder's Blueprints Buccaneer's Bicorne A Whiff of the Old Brimstone Salty Dog Little Budd Gym Rat Hot Dogger Birdcage Surgeon's Stahlhelm Backwards Ballcap Crocodile Smile Flair! Couvre Corner Surgeon's Stethoscope L'Inspecteur Photo Badge Clan Pride Swagman's Swatte Flamboyant Flamenco Virtual Reality Headse Spectre's Spectacles Stereoscopic Shades Hat With No Name Cremator's Conscience Hermes
No new weapons that offer something more than a reskin.
hey guys, there's two tf2 threads. since this one's OP was last updated a year ago and the poster has since been banned, let's just use this thread for tf2. the thread is older, paper isn't banned on TL, and things get updated more regularly there.
locking this thread then, please PM if you have legitimate objections.
EPT![[image loading]](http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2010/07/fez-spy-thumb.jpg)
Is their any better feeling in fps's than one-shotting a heavy with a headshot from the other side of the map?......nope.
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