EPTTeam Fortress 2 is now Free To Play - Page 24
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32160 Posts
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ploy
United States416 Posts
On June 30 2011 23:40 nemo14 wrote: Yes, I am denying that TF2 can be competitive. Once you learn how to aim and use a few very basic tactics you have essentially reached the skill cap for the hardest classes. Brood War requires years of practice to be competitive. TF2 requires having owned a copy of Quake. Players may think that Left 4 Dead has a competitive community, but between the entire game hinging on a random tank/witch spawns, players having no control over which infected they spawn as, weapon-switch melee exploiting, boomers and smokers only hitting targets half as often as they ought, and the inconsistent scoring system, I imagine that it is pretty tough to set up any reliably fair kind of competition. SSMB is incredibly difficult and (as long as you disable item drops) very much favors the better player consistently. As I understand it, TF2 is not hard enough to support a significant competitive community. Wow, I can't believe how ignorant you are. You realize that for a long while a lot of top quake 1 and 3 players, CS players, and CoD, RTCW players were competitively playing TF2? You really think that if the ceiling was so low these players could stay interested in the game? Especially compared to the quake series where the action is constant. Seriously, you are completely fucking stupid if you think the TF2 ceiling is that low. It blows my mind. Your point about it not being designed to be an E-sport makes you look even dumber than ever. Because BW was designed to be an E-sport, right? Edit: To further illustrate my point to this nimwit: If the game's skill ceiling was low, there would be minimal skill differential possible, because so many people could easily reach the top and the only factor for winning matches at that point would be other random variables. However, the top few clans with the really good players from Quake and other skillful shooters dominated. A lot. | ||
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Stoids
United States636 Posts
On July 01 2011 04:01 ploy wrote: Wow, I can't believe how ignorant you are. You realize that for a long while a lot of top quake 1 and 3 players, CS players, and CoD, RTCW players were competitively playing TF2? You really think that if the ceiling was so low these players could stay interested in the game? Especially compared to the quake series where the action is constant. Seriously, you are completely fucking stupid if you think the TF2 ceiling is that low. It blows my mind. Your point about it not being designed to be an E-sport makes you look even dumber than ever. Because BW was designed to be an E-sport, right? Edit: To further illustrate my point to this nimwit: If the game's skill ceiling was low, there would be minimal skill differential possible, because so many people could easily reach the top and the only factor for winning matches at that point would be other random variables. However, the top few clans with the really good players from Quake and other skillful shooters dominated. A lot. I agree with this. Although I'm not huge about the TF2 competitive scene, it is there and is pretty strong. There are some top quality FPS players playing TF2 full-time. The high skill ceiling is definitely present, it's just obvious you haven't reached it yet (nor have any of us). | ||
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[Agony]x90
United States853 Posts
Think about it, if its 32 vs 32, if you have 10 people spraying down the corridor, it doesn't matter how fast you are with your trigger, you'll get ripped apart. However, if its 2 people vs 2 people shooting down that hall, every shot counts. So I can see why people might think that TF2 isn't good for competative play, because it's designed for more people (just look at the design of the spy, which requires a large population to hide in), it may seem to have a lower cap. If you lower the number of players though, the best will always find things to exploit and ways to gain the slightest advantage over another player. This is what ultimately makes the game competative. | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
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nemo14
United States425 Posts
On July 01 2011 04:01 ploy wrote: Wow, I can't believe how ignorant you are. You realize that for a long while a lot of top quake 1 and 3 players, CS players, and CoD, RTCW players were competitively playing TF2? You really think that if the ceiling was so low these players could stay interested in the game? Especially compared to the quake series where the action is constant. Seriously, you are completely fucking stupid if you think the TF2 ceiling is that low. It blows my mind. Your point about it not being designed to be an E-sport makes you look even dumber than ever. Because BW was designed to be an E-sport, right? Edit: To further illustrate my point to this nimwit: If the game's skill ceiling was low, there would be minimal skill differential possible, because so many people could easily reach the top and the only factor for winning matches at that point would be other random variables. However, the top few clans with the really good players from Quake and other skillful shooters dominated. A lot. Good points. I agree. Also, I used the word "intended" when I should not have. I was trying to say something along the lines of "TF2 has as much e-sport potential as L4D does." However, I was wrong. On July 01 2011 04:27 [Agony]x90 wrote: In terms of competative play, one thing you have to keep in mind is that with all FPS's, the skill ceiling jumps incredibaly as you have less and less number of players in a match. TF2 is meant to be crazy with 10 v 10 + players, but if you remove the majority of the players, then there are fewer factors and more comes down to the skills of the individual. This is the same case with CS. When i played CS:S, the people with the best scores in the largest servers weren't the ones that ran out and went crazy. It was the ones that knew how to position themselves to get kills while remaining behind the rest of their team. Once the majority of the players had died, the better players could come out where their superior skills had a bigger impact. Think about it, if its 32 vs 32, if you have 10 people spraying down the corridor, it doesn't matter how fast you are with your trigger, you'll get ripped apart. However, if its 2 people vs 2 people shooting down that hall, every shot counts. So I can see why people might think that TF2 isn't good for competative play, because it's designed for more people (just look at the design of the spy, which requires a large population to hide in), it may seem to have a lower cap. If you lower the number of players though, the best will always find things to exploit and ways to gain the slightest advantage over another player. This is what ultimately makes the game competative. Better points and not insulting. I guess that thinking that TF2 can't be competitive because there is so much content that is clearly not useful in competitive play is like saying that SC2 can't be an e-sport because of the mothership and campaign-only units. Enlightenment! | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
I think this time it would work better since TF2 is F2P... hopefully... | ||
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Weson
Iceland1032 Posts
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KissKiss
United Kingdom136 Posts
On July 01 2011 03:57 Looky wrote: there is a competitive scene. it is actually hard to hit opponent since it isnt instant shots. there's lots of nice plays. Instant shots? You mean hitscan? There is plenty of that. I play TF2 competitively, but I'd have a hard time arguing that it is as competitive as Starcraft or Quake because its not. Much smaller prize pools and a smaller competitive community overall makes it generally less competitive. I certainly think it has the potential to be though, especially since everybody and their wife owns this game now, it just the competitive side needs a little publicity which is why I think its a shame Wheat kinda dismissed it completely. I think Valve could be doing a lot more. It wouldn't take much work to advertise tournaments and streams on their blog/mainsite, or they could simply enlist the help of a community that is desperate to make more publicity. Its mostly ok that Valve tailor their updates/unlocks etc to pub players, because thats where the money is, but things like improving the spectator hud, fixing some issues with demos and generally publicising the existence of competitive TF2 would help a great deal, and would ultimately improve their bottom line. It seems to me their is a unfilled void of competitive PC shooters atm, and now that TF2 is f2p I think they are missing a huge chance to not just get a tonne of people playing the game, but to have them still playing in 3-4 years. As for skill ceiling...well I admire Quake players. Such perfect accuracy...but what always impressed me most was their gamesense and timing. Watching two high skilled Quake players really go at it was always a massive thrill for me, akin to watching BW matches between Flash and Jaedong. TF2 has the same demands for accuracy as Quake, but in place of controlling armour its about teamwork and controlling the map. I think there is a lot of depth there that even the top TF2 players dismiss, buts its often no surprise that teams with the most experienced leaders often beat teams with superior deathmatching skills, purely because of smart calls and good positioning. Long story short, what competitive TF2 needs is to get discovered. It needs more people playing, more competition, more interest from sponsors and bigger prizepools. http://www.vanillatf2.org/ Best sight for coverage of TF2 in the EU. Does some US coverage too. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Shrub
49 Posts
On July 01 2011 03:55 Torte de Lini wrote: Nope, didn't know! Thanks :B I guess crates are super popular now or something? Hell no, I just collected them a while ago just because. Also how much of the competitive TF2 scene is still alive? I thought it was on its way out but everyone makes it sound like it is not. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On July 01 2011 06:51 DannyJ wrote: I played TF2 for a while maybe ill get into it agian. I dunno i always found it kinda hard to really enjoy a game where i hit someone with 4 rockets or 5 shotgun blasts and they didn't die. Must be the years of Goldeneye on license to kill that influenced me. You must either have pretty bad aim and just think you hit them or are shooting from entirely too far away. 4 rockets or 5 shotgun shells should kill any class that isn't being constantly healed, easily. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
On July 01 2011 10:04 Irave wrote: I started playing this again recently with the flood of people coming in. If anyone wants a medic to follow them around all game, add me on steam name is Ivrae. Yes add me as well I am on the TL and TL TF2 fan list thingamajig so you can find me on there under the name FirstAscent. I spend all my non-SC time playing Sudden Attack but this seems like a nice game since its not just mass TRG vs TRG style play that I usually get on that game. My steam name is RaLakedaimon but everything else on there is FirstAscent so add both I need people to show me the ropes of this game, I'm not used to FPS where you can heal each other or the funky weapons.  | ||
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Suffo
United States936 Posts
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dbddbddb
Singapore969 Posts
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Templar.
Canada133 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Force-a-Nature is an opportunist weapon, if you catch someone off-guard or nearly dead, the FON will finish the jump. However the low clip, the nerfs to its pushback effect over the course of many months leave it terribly undesirable, especially on PL maps or non CP maps. | ||
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KtheZ
United States813 Posts
On July 01 2011 13:18 Templar. wrote: What primary do most scouts prefer to use?Just starting up and some say the basic scattergun is the best, whilst others praise the soda popper/force a nature. etc I personally quite often use the shortstop, primarily cause it scales better at a distance than the scatterguns. I prefer to stay at close-medium range to kill opponents (cause its by far safer), and i find the shortstop works well in this niche. Also, the shortstop decreases the value of the pistol, so I usually switch my secondary for either a bonk or mad milk. Edit: I havent tried out any of the new items (The most recent patch) yet | ||
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