EPTOn June 29 2011 21:41 Keitzer wrote:
i heard it's full of kiddies now... confirm/deny.
i heard it's full of kiddies now... confirm/deny.
There always was.
Team Fortress 2 is now Free To Play - Page 20
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Greatness
United States450 Posts
There always was. | ||
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Bagonad
Denmark173 Posts
Heavy: Playing heavy is all about getting in your opponents face, in such a way that he cannot escape, you have a huge damage output and will slaughter any class point blank with your minigun in a second or two, your main way of killing should be jumping from a corner, spinning in mid-air, and appearing in the face of the opponent to mow him down, however the heavy class works in such a way that you will always take damage from the opponent as you kill him, so you will need to grab health a lot, eat your sandvich or have a medic with you. Your biggest problem as an inexperienced heavy will be spies, demomen and soldiers, as long as you don't stand in open areas (Run through open areas, do never attack an opponent at long or mid range, unless they cannot escape in mid-range, or you are ubercharged), snipers won't be a problem, you will evolve a sense of knowing when people act suspicious as spies, and will stand in safe corners or look behind you a lot. Pyro: As pyro your job is either to cause chaos by suiciding into a room full of people, or to run around solo and flanking opponents, with the addition of the airblast some time ago, you will be at a fairly good position against soldiers, even if you meet up with them directly, as then cannot fire their rockets directly at you without risking you airblasting it back in their face, pyros should avoid the big spammy areas, and try to get behind enemy lines, much like the spy, except that you are better off in a 1v1 fight against most classes. A common tactic when fighting an oppoent is putting him on fire, airblasting him into a corner, and either shooting him with the shotgun or killing him with the axetinquisher, you should be aware than you are in no position to take on sentry guns, even with ubercharge the knockback will make you unable to do much, unless he has placed it so you can shoot it from a corner without it shooting back, you should also be aware that any decent heavy will destroy you in every situation, unless he is looking the other way without having his minigun spun, and you jump him with your flamethrower and quickly finish him with the axetinquisher, decent scouts will cause you a lot of trouble as well. Sniper: Sniper is fairly simple, you stand somewhere high and safe and shoot people in the head, however things are not always this simple, sometimes the safer bet is to stand or crouch somewhere people do not expect to find you, as a sniper you are a natural magnet to scouts, spies and other snipers, in close-mid range you are not much of a fight against anyone, and when you've fired off a shot, it matters little if you're behind enemy lines or crouched in a dark cornor nobody can see you in, so make it count. For enemy snipers, they usualy stand still so a quick headshot is often preffered, and 125 health classes like Scout, sniper, spy and engineer will die from a headshot, no matter the charge, while a fully overhealed heavy will only die from a fully charged headshot, rarely should you stand scoped with full charge and wait for your opponent to appear, as you will be defenseless against anyone appearing from behind you while zoomed in, if someone gets close, you can either try to quick-scope with headshots, against scouts perhaps, or you can grab your smg or machete, although in most situations running for the nearest teammember might be a better idea. | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
There is even more of them now.  I am seeing snipers using SMG as their main weapon, or quickscoping. All of my hate. | ||
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Enki
United States2548 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:41 Keitzer wrote: i heard it's full of kiddies now... confirm/deny. Not completely, but most of the time I heard someones voice talking, it sounds like they are like 12 years old and their balls have yet to drop, rather annoying. So far I have been having fun, just sucks when I get a bunch of afk people. So far I just stick to classes like scout, soldier, sniper etc. I get bored if I am not trying to kill someone :S | ||
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cyberspace
Canada955 Posts
Favourite command.  | ||
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r_con
United States824 Posts
On June 29 2011 14:39 Dr. ROCKZO wrote: Anyone who wants to get good at this game, play on mge training servers. It's basically a lot of small 1v1 scenarios from Valve maps and game types. So the Badlands spire is there, first to 20 frags wins. Also, bball, which is almost my favourite part of Team Fortress 2. Airshots (one of the most satisfying types of kills) await. Also, I've been around with this game for a while, argue something you don't like and I'll explain why you're wrong  I don't like the fact that the game is broken without class limits, otherwise it would just be a medic demoman fest? am I wrong, cause last time i checked, the game was really bad because to make the game actually deep and fun, the community had to limit most classes to 2 or 1 so people could actually push. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
Pubs that I've been on usually limit spy/sniper first, and less frequently limit demo/medic/heavy/soldier. Spy and sniper can be very valuable support classes, but with more than 2 or so on your team (especially if played by casual people) they're dead weight. Snipers because they often do very little to help advance your push, and they rely on heavier classes to keep enemies busy, and spies because, well, once the other team expects them, they're very hard to play effectively. On these servers the problem isn't so much the game rather than the people playing it. I don't play competitive TF2 so I don't know what limits are used there (and for which reasons). | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
-1 Medic hardcap -1 Demo hardcap -only 2 of any other class. ...which makes the competitive lineup 1 Medic, 1 Demo, 2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers. There's also a weapons ban that differs depending on which competitive league you're talking about. Competitive Highlander is 1 of every class (though it's much less popular). | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On June 29 2011 23:38 r_con wrote: I don't like the fact that the game is broken without class limits, otherwise it would just be a medic demoman fest? am I wrong, cause last time i checked, the game was really bad because to make the game actually deep and fun, the community had to limit most classes to 2 or 1 so people could actually push. Demoman/medic alone is never optimal. It is good to have 2-3 demomen and 2 medics, but anything beyond that isn't especially helpful. Demomen can not spy check especially easily, since none of the weapons are hitscan. If a spy gets past everyone and gets close to a demoman, it becomes very difficult to kill them especially if they have a dead ringer (while pyros have no problems whatsoever). While demomen are better equipped to take out snipers than most classes (with a nice mix of speed/range), if there's even one good sniper and no other snipers to occupy his attention, he's going to make it difficult unless the map does not have any good sniping locations. Demos also can drain their ammo really quickly (ie, if a heavy suddenly starting raining down bullets on everyone, you have to unload everything to kill him as quickly as possible), so I find a lot of my time is spent reloading. Not a big deal if there are other classes to support you (like the heavy or pyro), but if everyone is a demoman and dealing with the same threats, chances are greater that no one has any ammo in their guns at the same time. Hitting targets consistently, especially fast ones, as a demoman is not easy- soldiers are a lot better than that, as are heavies and sentry guns. And while demos are good at defending, it is easy to screw up or run out of ammo at a bad time, something a sentry gun doesn't have issues with. In summary, a demoman can do a lot of different things pretty well, but there are a lot little subtle weaknesses to the class. They can largely be overcome with skill, but if an entire team were demomen/medics, it probably wouldn't do too well (assuming both teams are similar in skill level). On June 29 2011 22:19 Bagonad wrote:Pyro: As pyro your job is either to cause chaos by suiciding into a room full of people, or to run around solo and flanking opponents, This is simply not true. If you're suiciding into a group of people as pyro these days, you're not playing the class correctly. There's too many ways to put out fire for this to be worthwhile, not to mention I think they toned down the length of the afterburn a long time ago. This hasn't been viable since the pyro patch back when the backburner of doom was still around, and it especially hasn't been good since they made the damage ramp up as you get closer to someone lower (with a flamethrower). Also, you managed to give a bunch of advice while missing the one true purpose of a pyro: SPY CHECK. In a narrow corridor? Do a quick burst and sweep to make sure there are no spies. Next to a suspicious teammate? See if they light on fire. At a sentry? Light the surrounding area on fire (and use airblast to keep stickies/rockets away from the sentry). Second thing pyros are really good at doing: breaking up ubercharges so they don't do any damage. Use air blast on the damager continuously. They'll bounce around and be completely unable to aim (unless they're an insanely good/lucky demoman- they might blow up a single sentry, but they'll be unubered by the time it is over, instead of having half of it left). Pyros main role these days is to play more defensively and spycheck everything, abuse airblast, and to use the flare gun to light everyone on fire from a distance. If you have a degreaser and an axtinguisher, you can be a little more offensive, but it isn't nearly as useful as making sure there aren't any spies around and keeping sentries alive as long as possible. | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:55 Cyberspace1 wrote: voice_enable 0 Favourite command. This. In every game. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tl-tf2 | ||
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Genzo
Denmark207 Posts
error could not load library client keep getting the same error | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On June 30 2011 01:41 zer0das wrote: Demoman/medic alone is never optimal. It is good to have 2-3 demomen and 2 medics, but anything beyond that isn't especially helpful. Pure Demo/Medic is the strongest composition in the game (barring some weird map that's perfectly flat with no obstacles), simply because demo can output more spam than any other class in the game, for a longer period of time. Ammo is seldom a problem as long as you get a kill for every sixteen stickies or eight pipe bombs or both, which really isn't that difficult to do. And unlike soldiers, Demomen have an explosive weapon that can act like a proximity rocket half a second into flight, which makes them far more efficient against fast classes. Unless said fast classes get within the dead zone of the Demo. In which case more Demos are still better, for covering each other's dead zones. Pipes deal more damage than rockets at almost all ranges and have no damage falloff. The Grenade Launcher also fires faster and throws faster projectiles.; a Demo who knows how to pipe is twice as dangerous as an equivalent soldier. I've never seen anyone complain of spies in a Demo/Medic team, simply because spies tend to vaporize to the spam on accident. Snipers tend to die hard to sticky bombs jumps and pipe spam (and, besides the obvious, have extreme difficulties capturing points), though they are probably the best counter in high-level play. More importantly, Demos scale better than any other class as the number of players playing Demomen goes up. Probably because of some variant of Lancaster's Laws. There's a reason why Demo is the only other class in comp play that's limited to one, besides the Medic. And, most importantly, the single best counter to a uber is not a Pyro, but your own uber. Medics are almost always more valuable than Pyros. Plus, Pyros can't heal Demomen or convert afterburn into free uber. | ||
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Fitz
Canada77 Posts
I always thought they limited demo count to one in competitive only because demoman can hold a chockepoint for a retardly long time, making the game prety much boring and spammy, not because they have so much pushing power that they could roll through any area. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
ESG forever~ | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On June 30 2011 04:26 Fitz wrote: From my long time casual experience, aim capable scouts can deal with medics and demos prety easily. A roaming soldier too. Ive never seen a full medic/demo team, but I believe that a regular line up of scouts/soldier/demo/medic could hold them. I always thought they limited demo count to one in competitive only because demoman can hold a chockepoint for a retardly long time, making the game prety much boring and spammy, not because they have so much pushing power that they could roll through any area. From my long time casual experience, the team that wins (barring super stacks) is the team with the most explosives, the most medics, and the fewest hitscan classes (especially the lighter-HP ones). Demo/Medic is the single toughest team config in the game, and it only gets tougher as the number of players increases. Demoman is limited to one because he can output the most spam in the least amount of time and lock down entire areas and beat the crap out of...well, pretty much everybody except Scouts. And Scouts beat Demos in comp because there is only one Demo. If Demos weren't hardcapped to 1, it'd be 2 Demo/2 Soldier/1 Scouts/1 Medic (because the universal hardcap is 2). If you never lose, you will always win. Demoes can cap better than soldiers, and hold points better than any other class in the game (yes, this includes the Engi at sufficiently high levels of skill due to the higher skill ceiling). That said, I'm terrible at Demoman for various reasons, the most important one being that I can't pipe | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
I also think you're living in some fantasy land where the average demo's skill is sky high. All of what you say is true- if your demos are really good. Not everyone plays demoman like a god though. I also don't think spam is going to stop dead ringer spies, not even close. A pyro using airblast is going to cause issues, since he's essentially untouchable. Also, you're not going to be easily able to sticky jump to kill a single sniper behind his entire team on most maps and in most situations. It happens occasionally, but demos do not single handily neutralize snipers on their own. I would agree with most of what you said if it were a single, isolated demoman with a medic, and the skill of the demoman and the medic are both high. But there's a really freaking big difference between small combat and team affairs that you don't seem to acknowledge. I consider myself a pretty damn good demoman- if I play demo, I pretty routinely finish top 3 on my team, and am instrumental in blowing up sentries and getting my team to win (recent pub game I doubled the score of the closest person on my team, 54-27... the other team was pretty good too). But very, very rarely is there a demoman anywhere near comparable on my team or the other team. I've had teams that were close to pure demoman/medic and they generally did pretty poorly. Stacking heavies is a heck of a lot easier in pubs- roll over everyone in close combat so badly that you can get in the face of snipers quickly. I've seen that work to pretty good effect on certain maps. | ||
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BG1
Canada1550 Posts
Only decent ones I've played so far are granary and train station(?). Rest of the maps so far are like 2-3 easily covered/spammed chokes. They should concentrate on making some more decent maps instead of releasing all these items. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:04 zer0das wrote: I don't think so. There are far better synergies than just pure demomen/medic. For example, a soldier with a buff banner and a medic with a kritz- soldier gets a kritz to fill his buff banner, uses buff banner, by the time that is done, the kritz is almost refilled, etc. The range of this soldier is going to seriously wreck demomen in anything but the most closed map, and the buff banner amplifies the power of the rest of the team. I've seen combinations like this, and it rips the crap out of anything mass demoman can do if pulled off well. I also think you're living in some fantasy land where the average demo's skill is sky high. All of what you say is true- if your demos are really good. Not everyone plays demoman like a god though. I also don't think spam is going to stop dead ringer spies, not even close. A pyro using airblast is going to cause issues, since he's essentially untouchable. Also, you're not going to be easily able to sticky jump to kill a single sniper behind his entire team on most maps and in most situations. It happens occasionally, but demos do not single handily neutralize snipers on their own. I would agree with most of what you said if it were a single, isolated demoman with a medic, and the skill of the demoman and the medic are both high. But there's a really freaking big difference between small combat and team affairs that you don't seem to acknowledge. I consider myself a pretty damn good demoman- if I play demo, I pretty routinely finish top 3 on my team, and am instrumental in blowing up sentries and getting my team to win (recent pub game I doubled the score of the closest person on my team, 54-27... the other team was pretty good too). But very, very rarely is there a demoman anywhere near comparable on my team or the other team. I've had teams that were close to pure demoman/medic and they generally did pretty poorly. Stacking heavies is a heck of a lot easier in pubs- roll over everyone in close combat so badly that you can get in the face of snipers quickly. I've seen that work to pretty good effect on certain maps. -I main Medic, and in my experience, a kritzed Demo is generally more dangerous than a Soldier+Kritz+Buff Banner. 12 critical shots in eight seconds without reloading, all of which deal more damage than a rocket...yeah. Vaporizing most of the enemy team is worth not having the minicrits. -The average Demoman knows how to detonate a sticky bomb in mid-air and spam a choke. The average Sniper can't hit a head to save his life. The average spy dies horribly to Engineers, let alone Demomen. You want to talk about skill, I'll talk about skill. If you want to talk about "average"...to be frank, the "average" player is terrible. Incidentally, the DR is good, but it has this really loud sound whenever someone decloaks somewhere in the same ballpark as you. Unless he's using the Saharan Spy set, in which case he'll be undisguised for a while. Uber food most of the time. My experiences are completely different; Demo/Medic has, the majority of the time, been stronger the closer it reaches the ideal. Maybe we play different maps or game modes or something (I play mostly stock maps and a few of the more popular custom maps). I do agree that Heavy stacking is easier on most maps, though, if not as...well, efficient. | ||
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Effay
United States153 Posts
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