EPTI'm certainly picking up Elena out of the new fighters. I really liked her in the comics as well.
Ultra Street Fighter IV - Page 433
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
I'm certainly picking up Elena out of the new fighters. I really liked her in the comics as well. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
But that hurtbox stuff is kinda silly.. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
In SF3 for example people could down parry (or get hit by) c.mk and just hold down and comboed tatsu goes right over their head. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On June 06 2014 08:18 MarlieChurphy wrote: I don't see the problem with those elena hurtbox. Nothing new. Plenty of characters can hold down and avoid blockstun/chip while they would take it if they held down/back or were hit to reel a little higher. In SF3 for example people could down parry (or get hit by) c.mk and just hold down and comboed tatsu goes right over their head. The issue is consistency. They fixed a ton of move working differently on crouchers during this update ( Abel stHP and crHP, Rufus stHP, Juri stLP, Makoto stHP after hayate cancel, Guy target combos, etc ) They just didn't bother fixing her hurtbox, that's all. | ||
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
On June 06 2014 00:37 Noocta wrote: How can you say Claw plays the same ? cross up Short, stMK links, red focus combos are all insane new tools for him. SDave meter, crLP > stHK > red focus > whatever is really good. Ultra was like made for characters like Vega imo. crossup short is a good adition as I said we can play with this change, we can make something happen, but keep in mind claw could already crossup with fba every cast member, and with some normals some of the chars although both of these things were quite difficult to achieve with real consistency aka on demand. I consider this a good buff nonetheless, in the dw environment can be useful, safejumps on delayed standers will be found shortly I'm sure OK, to business: as the lab warrior I am, I will gladly try all of this right now so the numbers are accurate hopefully I will be able to bring across my point, that is nothing more than ok we have new things, will I use them? yes! do I think they are as good as people think? >_<. Is USF claw a new terminator with his strong neutral game in a "vortex free" environment? let the numbers speak. for dmg comparison purposes, first I will put here our most used and most damaging combos everything from here on is tested with full Ultra bar on 100% targets with mask and claw on, disregarding that some may be specific to certain characters or situations and the possible setup that can potentially grant, we will talk about damage in numbers 0 bars: j.hp > cr.mk xx hk.ST = 298 j.hp > cl.hp > cr.hp = 288 CH > hk.ST = 240 1 bar: cr.lp > cr.mp xx exfba = 219 j.hp > cl.hp xx ex.RCF > st.hk = 363 cl.hp xx ex.RCF > st.hk = 308 j.hp > cl.hp > cr.mp xx exfba = 359 cl.hp > cr.mp xx exfba = 289 j.hp> cr.mk> cr.mp xx EXfba = 329 cr.mk> cr.mp xx EXfba = 259 CH > lk.ST > EX.ST = 268 2 bar: j.hp > cl.hp xx ex.RCF > cr.mp xx EXfba = 421 3 bar: nothing remarkable, his old FADC combos were very difficult and not efficient due to dmg scaling 4 bar: old raw super did 400 dmg (if you could land it, since it couldn't be confirmed aka never used) probably by now we can agree old claw had very nice damage, let's see how this new technology capcom gave us will affect our daily life let's discuss his new flamant upgraded normal cl.mk 5f 70dmg +5on hit, keep in mind we already had cr.mk 6f 70dmg +5 on hit j.hp> cl.mk> cr.lp> cr.mp xx EXfba = 329 j.hp> cr.mk> cr.mp xx EXfba = 329 cl.mk> cr.lp> cr.mp xx EXfba = 259 cr.mk> cr.mp xx EXfba = 259 scaling more than this with something like cl.mk> st.lk >cr.lp> cr.mp xx EXfba = 269 can net us slightly more damage with a much harder combo, that will be character specific on top of that so it is safe to assume he didn't need the cl.mk changes for regular combos, what for then? counterhits, big part of our game will be the frametrap/grab pressure making good use of our strong kara, ok lets check: CH cl.mk > cr.mk > cr.mp xx exfba = 317 CH cr.mk > cr.mk > cr.mp xx exfba = 317 I'm starting to see a pattern, everything I can do with this new tool I could already make, so the only special thing is the 1f faster startup to pay for the "being close" restriction, well capcom, I wont complain but don't expect me to thank you before discussing red focus let me tell you that both new features will grant us a "star combo" that isn't so spectacular after all CH cl.mk > cr.mk > st.hk xx RedFa > U2 = 424 (3 bars) red focus combos grant him no extra damage, you have to remember claw is a character that can get 421 from a jump-in with 2 bars, or 363 with 1, it is a common missconception to think red focus benefits claw that much, it's a new option yes, but people seem to think it will be the primary one. "crLP > stHK > red focus > whatever is really good" as I told before it isnt for the price, "whatever" comes with so much scaling and 3 bars cost, think over it again just a little bit, I most likely won't mix you up afterwards for stun, I better stun or kill you with that very costly combo or it's just a quite big resource drain red focus mechanic for vega is a trap in itself, the main tool for an easy red focus land would be st.hk. st.hk is a 110dmg 2hit normal where the first hit only deals 40, but lets see why it isn't efficient enough for its cost: st.hk xx RedFA > U2 = 382 cr.lp > st.hk xx RedFA > U2 = 358 cr.mk > st.hk xx RedFA > U2 = 398 if we don't use ultra we can have something like this j.hp > cr.mk > st.hk xx RedFA > cl.hp > cr.mp xx exfba = 369 (4bars) when looking for efficiency we try to avoid light attacks, sadly our st.hk dmg is equivalent to a light attack in this instance :sadpanda: , scaling really takes a toll on claw when involving red focus this damage looks underwhelming for the investment to me, a random poke cr.lp (non-counter) grants me 219 dmg with 1 bar, even if I have to scale it due to having no charge in that very moment! I really don't think I will sacrifice just the possibility of the punch of a raw U2 on deck for a strong AA or meterless punish of up to 450 dmg (495 with no mask) he has other options too, canceling a cl.hp (50dmg 1st hit) or canceling RCF last hit, this last one could prove interesting on paper, lets see: our best bet would be a non-escalated hp or ex RCF, numbers wont lie: j.hp > cl.hp xx hp.RCF xx RedFA > U2 = 520 hp.RCF xx RedFA > U2 = 512 non-ultra j.hp > cl.hp xx hp.RCF xx RedFA > cl.hp > cr.mp xx exfba = 453 (4 bars) settling for lp version will grant us less damage j.hp > cr.mk xx lp.RCF xx RedFA > U2 = 492 so yes, RCF cancel can give good results sometimes, this is the kind of thing claw can try to incorporate if feeling the need of using red focus, is the damage justified? this is the question, you should determine the answer confirmable super is very good comparing with the old one, max damage is good j.hp > cr.mk xx super (grab) = 460 When I say he will play the same is because I personally don't see the strong points your reply suggested. Gameplan will still be the same, his core AA tech is almost unchanged, and he will still have to deal with pressure just the same as before, less setups thanks to dw ok, but that doesn't change him as a character at all, he will play just as before in the sense that these new improvements are just new options and not the best ones overall for me, as I value the raw damage I can get off metter management, turning those hk.ST into ex.ST, having meter for the FBA when I finally land a hit and all that keeping my options open, that's why I feel he hasn't changed much and why I don't thing red focus cancels will be a part of my strategy usually. I agree with you to a degree that ultra was made for characters like vega, SF going back to the roots, footsie game, slow pace, reward strong fundamentals and great reads, but then they include rolento for another matchup that will make no fucking sense XD you can tell I'm not looking forward to the divekick legion that online will be too people expect claw to become top5 or something, well, sadly I dont think he will but I'd gladly eat my words, he was a good character, he is a better one now, but only time will tell sorry if my words portrait myself as a pessimist, I'm happy with the new stuff, but I see people in the forums talking wonders about my character and I can't bring myself to that level of excitement, when thinking about the new stuff used in real situations excuse me for any spelling or gramatical errors I might have done, english is not my first language almost 4:00 am here, goodnight teamliquid  | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
Also having a blast with Hugo, win rate be damned. Hilarious character, and with some practice seems like he's got quite a few options and a lot of potential. I have NO idea what to do against strong zoners like Sim and Sagat yet, but in closer-range match ups the character is a riot. Elena is so tricky to play against still. I might have to put in some work with her just to understand the character. Many overheads, and so many of her specials recover way faster than the animation would have you think. Definitely one of those characters that I just play safe and back off against once I have the life lead. BUT then the players who take Healing ultra can get most of it off. Very tricky character! | ||
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InVerno
258 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On June 07 2014 02:45 InVerno wrote: After a long time without playing fighting games (like 10years) i want to give a try to this new street fighter. The problem is.. i'm a complete noob to the SF series (mainly i played tekken and soulcalibur series). Are there some good beginners guide to start of? i know i can google but you know.. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL744144A71C67D816 This is what I started with a couple years ago. Don't need to do the whole thing at once, but the first couple chapters are great for basics. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On June 07 2014 02:45 InVerno wrote: After a long time without playing fighting games (like 10years) i want to give a try to this new street fighter. The problem is.. i'm a complete noob to the SF series (mainly i played tekken and soulcalibur series). Are there some good beginners guide to start of? i know i can google but you know.. This popped a few days ago and it's pretty good for people like you I feel http://ff.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/27h0c0/from_beginner_to_beginners_my_early_sf4_findings/ Also check the wiki on the r/SF4 reddit, plenty of good stuff. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On June 06 2014 09:13 Noocta wrote: The issue is consistency. They fixed a ton of move working differently on crouchers during this update ( Abel stHP and crHP, Rufus stHP, Juri stLP, Makoto stHP after hayate cancel, Guy target combos, etc ) They just didn't bother fixing her hurtbox, that's all. correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the conesus that Elena mostly sucks? This is her advantage. She is like a counterpick fringe character. That is her role. Her power is this hurtbox advantage, if you take that away, what does she have? | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On June 07 2014 06:20 MarlieChurphy wrote: correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the conesus that Elena mostly sucks? This is her advantage. She is like a counterpick fringe character. That is her role. Her power is this hurtbox advantage, if you take that away, what does she have? Uh, Elena looks like one of the best of the new five characters.. I'm not sure if it's just because the game is fresh so a lot of new players are playing right now, but I'm tearing through XBL like I never did on PC. Maybe the PC players are fewer (and better?) in general? I was on a 7 game win streak until RemyBleu #1 Yun joined me lol | ||
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Trumpet
United States1935 Posts
On June 07 2014 06:42 Duka08 wrote: Uh, Elena looks like one of the best of the new five characters.. I'm not sure if it's just because the game is fresh so a lot of new players are playing right now, but I'm tearing through XBL like I never did on PC. Maybe the PC players are fewer (and better?) in general? I was on a 7 game win streak until RemyBleu #1 Yun joined me lol gotta be a new game thing. I ran into a couple of ghandis on ranked for the short bit I played | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On June 07 2014 13:04 freelander wrote: I'm going to a release tournament today. I'll probably play Cody and spam c.MK :D What's the command for red focus? LP+MP+MK You can activate it with 3P+3K if it's easier for you to do so. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On June 07 2014 13:50 Noocta wrote: LP+MP+MK You can activate it with 3P+3K if it's easier for you to do so. Wasn't the command supposed to be MP+MK+Any other attack? I remember Capcom saying that a while back | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On June 07 2014 13:53 WindWolf wrote: Wasn't the command supposed to be MP+MK+Any other attack? I remember Capcom saying that a while back It's specifically LP+MP+MK now, though I recall that they did say that at some point, you're right | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
First, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to mute my mic now. Do I just have to disable voice chat completely through Steam? I use it for some other games, so it would be a little annoying if I had to switch it every time I played. Also, is anyone else not able to see the connection indicator in the lobby search now? For me, it just stays flashing green on over 90% of players after the move away from GFWL. Right now, I'm just joining games from people in the US and Canada, and checking the connection in the lobby. So I'm going to put a disclaimer here, but I'm absolute trench tier at this game right now. I think my combined total in ranked is something like 1-37. Right now, I'm using mostly Ryu and trying to just work on my basic mechanics in training mode, while throwing in a few ranked matches here and there for fun. What I'm wondering though, is a lot of the stuff I read says to play a character like Ryu starting off so that you learn decent fundamentals. I've found that there's a lot of new players since the move away from GFWL, and a high proportion of them are Ryu players as well. So, I'm thinking of picking a different character for fun and to avoid some of the Ryu x Ryu matches that I seem to keep getting. Is there anyone I should avoid? I'm thinking of maybe trying Sagat, Juri, or Ken. At the level I'm playing, it feels like I'm not going to lose much switching characters for a while, Is it better to just focus on one character to start, or does it not matter so long as you try to make sure to learn the strategies and mechanics that apply across all characters? Next, how do you deal with people who just go nuts and get in your face? This is probably the thing I have the most trouble with right now, is that I have absolutely no idea what to do when someone just goes ham on me. If I try to be defensive, I just get beat up in the corner, but if I try to fight back, I find I get counter hit a lot which leads into a lot of damage. Any general advice on what to do when someone gets in your face? Part of it might just be panicking as well, but I find that as soon as someone gets in on me, I just don't know what to do and get murdered. Last question, I promise. What's the general temperament/skill of people who play in person? I think it would be really useful to just have someone I could play with offline who I could learn from, but I don't know anyone personally who plays. I've looked around online, and it looks like there's a weekly meetup where I live, but I'm a little tentative about going, since like I said, I'm pretty shit. I'm just worried I'd be wasting people's time if I went to play, since the matches would be so one-sided. In your experience, are people pretty open to new players, or would they be annoyed if I came and just got stomped every game? Should I wait until I get slightly decent? I just think the best way to learn, would be to play someone and ask them what mistakes I made, or what I could do differently. Thanks for your time guys, hopefully someone will be patient with me and answer my (probably silly) questions. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
When a character rushes you down in the corner, you have to get patient. Think of it as a great way to practice your blocking skill. Just try to block everything. It can get scary and frustrating especially when grabs are thrown into the mix, but having a good defence is a very important skill toi have. After defending, you must punish, try to find a bnb you're comfortable to execute and that can come out in few frames. Experience will teach you what is punishable and what is not, but most of the time it's pretty obvious. Using the focus or grabbing can get you out of dicy situations in the corner. More importantly is : don't get caught in a corner. Try to space out the opponent, and use air tatsumakis or stuff like that to change side with the opponent when you're getting close to the corner. The fighting game community is generally very friendly and open to beginners. Fighting games are best played offline, I suggest you to go there to meet other players, talk about the game and eventually you'll find a player with a similar level or a better player that is okay to teach you some stuff. I hope it helped you a bit, this is just my noob opinion  | ||
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