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1) holy shit that could not be more wrong about KoF.
2) why is everyone talking about KoF, Dota, & marvel in the SF thread >.>
On topic, I honestly don't like how frequently SF updates. While it can be frustrating to see the top tier characters beating everyone up, I feel like this only happens because we always have an update around the corner so people aren't willing to just learn the top tier. It feels wrong to already be declaring Cammy undisputed best character and change the game accordingly, since we have so often been wrong about who the best characters were & optimal playstyles in previous iterations of SF4. But why learn how to properly play as and play against Cammy if it's all irrelevant in 6 months (or however long) anyway?
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On October 01 2013 21:51 Noocta wrote:
I always felt like KOF is the one game where if you're the better player, you'll always win.
Since spacing and movement are so important to that game. HD combos are just very flashy and require a huge deal of resources.
Oh well.
By the way, anyone here know how to do things like stLK stLK superjump burnkick cross up on Viper ?
I'm having a hard time with the motion D:
What specifically aren't you getting about it (the viper stuff)? Just make sure in that example the stlk isnt chained and then I just do a qcf+uf->qcb. Think its mostly just about timing the kick for the burnkick correctly from that close range.
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Oh, I guess I was chaining the stLK so the superjump wasn't coming out a a cancel.
Thanks, I'll test it.
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On October 01 2013 23:50 Trumpet wrote:
But why learn how to properly play as and play against Cammy if it's all irrelevant in 6 months (or however long) anyway?
You're right. This is honestly what I hate deep down, no matter how frustrating something is (in gaming in general really)... I'd rather give it the time to play out and put in the work to learn it, than blow it off and wait 'til it's fixed. When it comes to modern gaming, I like the idea of patches (frequent or infrequent), but I hate the expectation of patches.
I wouldn't describe the SF4 updates as "frequent" (relative to other games.. in the grand scheme/history of things maybe), BUT they are EXPECTED, announced well ahead of time, hence causing the same trap that you mentioned.
On the topic of Yulya and Noocta's conversation, can you super jump out of a light chain? Or does it have to be linked just like any other special? Totally random useless curiosity question.
Edit: Guess Noocta answered that lol, ninja'd
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I don't know if it's a common thing to occur, but I just started doing ranked with my secondary characters, so I can learn them under more pressure than endless.
And while I play aroudn the 3k PP level with my main, my PP have plummeted around 1k5 with my secondary.
I feel like as I'm only good at my character but awful at the game in general, it's really weird.
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On October 08 2013 09:12 Noocta wrote:
I don't know if it's a common thing to occur, but I just started doing ranked with my secondary characters, so I can learn them under more pressure than endless.
And while I play aroudn the 3k PP level with my main, my PP have plummeted around 1k5 with my secondary.
I feel like as I'm only good at my character but awful at the game in general, it's really weird.
Depends how generic or gimmicky/unique your primary chars are. Iirc you play Makoto and Viper both of which have ludicrously strong offensive tools that make it very easy to actually get damage on people if you want to get something done. I actually realised this about myself a year or so ago. After maining Viper for a year or two I realised I actually had no idea wtf I was doing in the game overall. Like no footsies, no decent frametraps, inability to react in important situations etc. Been playing a shitload of Ryu for the last 6 months or so in an attempt to figure out how to actually fight people with decent defence when I can't just rely on lolburnkicks, lolEXseismos. My footsies/frametrap/mixup game with a basic set of tools has got so much better and I autopilot generic offense much less often, actually really happy about it. Games a lot more fun opening people up with Ryu in intelligent ways based on pattern recognition etc than just clipping people pressing random shit with EX seismos all day. At least imo!
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The thing is, I don't feel like my fundamentals are so bad. Makoto teach a lot about defense and being patient, and she has strong normals for the neutral game.
But with Viper I feel like her tools beside lol burnkicks setups and ex seismo are really small or require a shit tons of execution ( feints on every normal, meterless fadc to keep positioning ) so I'm getting destroyed because I'm lost in what to do in the neutral game. And since my burnkicks setups aren't even that great, things are really not working out. =p
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On October 08 2013 11:06 Noocta wrote:
The thing is, I don't feel like my fundamentals are so bad. Makoto teach a lot about defense and being patient, and she has strong normals for the neutral game.
But with Viper I feel like her tools beside lol burnkicks setups and ex seismo are really small or require a shit tons of execution ( feints on every normal, meterless fadc to keep positioning ) so I'm getting destroyed because I'm lost in what to do in the neutral game. And since my burnkicks setups aren't even that great, things are really not working out. =p
Yeah I kinda meant like, if you're playing Viper as a secondary now she won't come as easy from Makoto as say...starting to play Ryu after playing a fair bit of Gouken say. Fundamentals based->fundamentals lets you play a bunch of chars quickly, if you play fairly unique chars theres nothing that can replace just alot of time spent with that one char :o).
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I'm a (bad) Oni main and I can confirm that often times when I play for too long or get frustrated I go into autopilot mode and rely on gimmicks to get me through some players/matchups, which I feel is detrimental to my overall game (I play a bit of Viper too but not at the level where it's mechanical second nature haha).
I've been playing some Makoto and (randomly) also a lot of Fei Long this week. I think by playing new characters it allows me to step back and think more about the fundamental game and such (also doesn't hurt that these characters have great normals and such, benefit from that style of play), and it's actually helped my Oni game because I'm subconsciously training patience and awareness, which I often lack depending on who/when I'm playing.
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Agree thats a big bonus to kinda flicking around playing a bunch of characters. Its very easy to just be training patterns into yourself all day every day if you only ever play your main (and playing an alt but fucking about doesn't count, have to actually attempt to play the character cleanly). Can sometimes stop thinking about what you're doing as much and just fall back into flow chart type play. Taking an alt or even a character you barely know anything about seriously for a couple of days to a week can really force you to actually think about your options and how you should use them instead of just rehashing the same old patterns over and over on your main. Coming back to your main afterwards you'll hopefully be in a more elastic frame of mind, really is quite sick.
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On October 09 2013 02:40 YulyaVolkova wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 11:06 Noocta wrote:
The thing is, I don't feel like my fundamentals are so bad. Makoto teach a lot about defense and being patient, and she has strong normals for the neutral game.
But with Viper I feel like her tools beside lol burnkicks setups and ex seismo are really small or require a shit tons of execution ( feints on every normal, meterless fadc to keep positioning ) so I'm getting destroyed because I'm lost in what to do in the neutral game. And since my burnkicks setups aren't even that great, things are really not working out. =p Yeah I kinda meant like, if you're playing Viper as a secondary now she won't come as easy from Makoto as say...starting to play Ryu after playing a fair bit of Gouken say. Fundamentals based->fundamentals lets you play a bunch of chars quickly, if you play fairly unique chars theres nothing that can replace just alot of time spent with that one char :o).
I guess so. But I've been trainign Viper for quite a long time, and so far I feel like shit because I'm stuck at the 1000PP mark with her, while my Makoto can easily play around the 3000PP level.
I'm feeling like shit about it. It's depressing.
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I think Viper is a hard character to place (and play) because she's so heavily based on momentum. No real footsies normals, weird movement compared to the rest of the cast. Also, kind of like Makoto I suppose, being a mix-up character requires making a lot of (educated) guesses, which is hard to do if you don't know all the ins and outs of the character.
Maybe you should pick an alt that is of another character-archetype instead of playing two tricky mix-up characters?
Play a shoto for a while or pick someone with a shadaloo roundhouse : )
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On October 09 2013 04:42 2stra wrote:
I think Viper is a hard character to place (and play) because she's so heavily based on momentum. No real footsies normals, weird movement compared to the rest of the cast. Also, kind of like Makoto I suppose, being a mix-up character requires making a lot of (educated) guesses, which is hard to do if you don't know all the ins and outs of the character.
Maybe you should pick an alt that is of another character-archetype instead of playing two tricky mix-up characters?
Play a shoto for a while or pick someone with a shadaloo roundhouse : )
I usually like the same kind of characters, and I've been looking at Viper ever since I started the game. Funny thing, beside Viper, I want to play Yun or Gen haha
I like going nuts on people.
Things aren't as bad as yesterday, I'm making progress playing her. I bump up to 2500 PP by alterning between playing her and playing Makoto.
I think the main thing holding me back on Viper is the lack of proper knowledge on her mix ups in a real game. I'm just doing walking into instant air cross up burnkicks or overhead way too much.
But heh, this thread isn't all about my problems, what have you been up to guys ?
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I'm soulsearching for a new character, I've been getting too frustrated with sim lately. Uphill battles everywhere.
Been playing a bit of Rose because she seems to be a good fit for sim players but maybe I'll just change it up completely and pick a rushdown char.
I heard Yang's gonna be good in ultra : )
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Yang is pretty fun, but I find his fadc combos really tight. Getting rekka rekka fadc cl.MK is such a chore. :p
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Yeah, the fadc off the 2nd rekka is one of the hardest ones in the game for some reason (for me at least).
He's so stylish tho, and his buttons are pretty solid too. Execution wise he'll be challenging for me as I seem to struggle with rekka's regardless of fadc's so it'll be a while before I'd dare to use him versus other players.
edit: Or I'll just play Bison and wing it
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Speaking of Ultra, what do you guys think gonna happen to Rose?
When I have the time (emphasis on when) to play the game these days, I've started to play more and more Rose over Juri
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As far as what I know, I've only heard about a bit more damage on pokes, and full invincibility on EX Spiral. :o
I don't think she needs much honestly.
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edit: What he said :p
I think she will be good in ultra. Rose is pretty well rounded in this version, let alone with the aforementioned buffs.
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EPT
