EPTUltra Street Fighter IV - Page 251
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:09 CosmicSpiral wrote: More retarded than unblockable setups? More retarded than Zero's ridiculous meter-building and ability to kill you with one touch? Worse than redonkulous Spiral Sword loops? What are you talking about right now, I'm just amazed people are complaining about damage of Akuma ever since the game has been out for 4 years now. He landed a massive jumpin, what do your expect to come out of that? Maybe I mentioned UMVC3 because I loved MVC2 and hated what that game is in comparisons, but I seriously think the "stupid things" in AE pale far in comparison to the stupidness of marvel atm. edit: I'm not even trying to defend AE2012 right now. Still think Vanilla and Super were better renditions of the SF4 series personally, but when I see comments complaining about Akuma's damage/vortex (where were you guys when Tokido/Momochi were RH looping ppl for 500 damage no meters/ abusing safe demon flip throws etc.), or stuff like AE containing more bullshit than MVC3, it just doesn't sound right to me at all sorry. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:16 O-ops wrote: I'm fine with UMVC3 because everyone has that shit. This game we have like 3 characters that has like 20 ways to mix people up and they're safe and they all do 1/4 AND they get to try that again. Huh? SF4 is like the most balanced fighting game out currently. Have you looked at the tournament representation charts lately? You are saying UMVC3 is more balanced? | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:16 O-ops wrote: I'm fine with UMVC3 because everyone has that shit. This game we have like 3 characters that has like 20 ways to mix people up and they're safe and they all do 1/4 AND they get to try that again. How do you explain the existence of Hsien-Ko? | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:19 Shikyo wrote: Huh? SF4 is like the most balanced fighting game out currently. Have you looked at the tournament representation charts lately? You are saying UMVC3 is more balanced? UMVC3 has different teams in tourney results -.- Like when was the last time you see mirror teams like CJ vs Andre lol. Ever since Latif Wolfkrone stopped playing U.S hasn't had a vortex player even worth mentioning except for like ClakeyD who comes out to 2 tourney a year and OnlineTony - who comes out to like 2 tourney a year (xcept WNF). We're been playing actual street fighter 4 here, and when everyone is good and play different characters you get diverse results. Have you looked at the rep chart for when Latif/Wolfkrone were playing at every tourney? lol. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:22 CosmicSpiral wrote: How do you explain the existence of Hsien-Ko? Every game needs a Dan. And it's not like you're picking 3 Hsien-Ko/Phoenix Wright in a team lol. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
Who'd though it? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:27 O-ops wrote: UMVC3 has different teams in tourney results -.- Like when was the last time you see mirror teams like CJ vs Andre lol. Ever since Latif Wolfkrone stopped playing U.S hasn't had a vortex player even worth mentioning except for like ClakeyD who comes out to 2 tourney a month and OnlineTony - who comes out to like 2 tourney a month. We're been playing actual street fighter 4 here, and when everyone is good and play different characters you get diverse results. Have you looked at the rep chart for when Latif/Wolfkrone were playing at every tourney? lol. You can't compare teams evenly with characters because of how many possibilities there are. Actually, if you see one mirror team every 2500 times that you see a Cammy player, the games have similiar representation ratios. And seeing as I've seen multiple Zero/Vergil/Dantes and Doom/Magneto/Dormammus and Doom/Magneto/Phoenixes... So USA doesn't have many vortex players = vortex is overpowered? Nice logic. I bet everyone must just not play vortex characters because they're so overpowered and ruin the game, it must not be because they're really difficult to play. Those tournaments with Latic/Wolfkrone had Vipers all over the charts? Not just those two players winning them and having an even distribution otherwise? So, how would you feel if Dieminion traveled to all those tournaments and won them with a super defensive character? Maybe it's a case of a good player being good instead of vortex being overpowered? Weren't you the person who said I must have never played fighting games or something like that? ... It seems so ironic | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:28 O-ops wrote: Every game needs a Dan. And it's not like you're picking 3 Hsien-Ko/Phoenix Wright in a team lol. Hsien-Ko is not a singular exception though. The amount of characters that can do "bullshit things" is fairly limited to the top-tier (which is why they are considered top-tier in the first place). Shuma, Iron Man, Iron Fist, Nemesis, etc. are not capable of putting opponents in perpetual block-stun or converting full combos from SJ height with relative ease. Even slept-on characters like Trish don't have that broken factor that makes people want to main them. On October 29 2012 09:35 MCDayC wrote: I find it ironic that people are finding aggression and mixups too powerful in Street Fighter 4 and UMVC3 is becoming dominated by characters who rely on chip damage and keep away. Who'd though it? Chris G and Champ are anomalies. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:35 Shikyo wrote: You can't compare teams evenly with characters because of how many possibilities there are. Actually, if you see one mirror team every 2500 times that you see a Cammy player, the games have similiar representation ratios. And seeing as I've seen multiple Zero/Vergil/Dantes and Doom/Magneto/Dormammus and Doom/Magneto/Phoenixes... So USA doesn't have many vortex players = vortex is overpowered? Nice logic. I bet everyone must just not play vortex characters because they're so overpowered and ruin the game, it must not be because they're really difficult to play. Weren't you the person who said I must have never played fighting games or something like that? ... It seems so ironic Unusual as it may be, I'm really going to have to side with Shikyo on this one. Just because "teams" don't show up multiple times isn't a fair comparison. I'd quickly argue that UMVC3's "top tier" is more greatly separated from the rest of the pack compared to AE's top tier. That, and I don't understand your post at all re: Latif/Wolfkrone? | ||
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Mitsuwa
United States793 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
This might not be entirely accurate, but you can see some very respectable names as contributors to some characters there(Alioune cammy very notably). Note Cammys average matchup strenght is around 5.55 - 4.45. Dan's is around 4.45 - 5.55. If you ask me, that's incredibly balanced. Also about the team tournament I'm guessing it'll be an Infiltration vs 5 and I wonder if Japan can beat him. | ||
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Looms
United States4624 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
And why are people speaking like team dynamics and assist/batterry characters don't exist in Marvel? Even the changing the assist on the same character can change gameplay. You got however many team combinations that's viable nowdays and the occasional Spiderman or Modok or Cap and that's somehow not diverse enough? Every characters may not have the same one touch kills bullshit but sure enough you can make it so that every team has that ability, or whatever other flavor you want. Like Gee whiz, I wish i could have another character with godlike walkspeed, good fireball, 3f DP, teleport, good normals, and a godlike vortex to choose from in this game. On October 29 2012 09:45 Shikyo wrote: http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3490/tierlist121.png This might not be entirely accurate, but you can see some very respectable names as contributors to some characters there(Alioune cammy very notably). Note Cammys average matchup strenght is around 5.55 - 4.45. Dan's is around 4.45 - 5.55. If you ask me, that's incredibly balanced. Also about the team tournament I'm guessing it'll be an Infiltration vs 5 and I wonder if Japan can beat him. From Chun downward i can only call out 1-2 good players that play those characters that actually did something sometimes every since 2012 for like 5 of them. In fact, i can only recall off the top of my head the last time they actually appears on stream for just about as many characters. That Dee Jay stat? Probably from Supers (Viscant as contributor LOL). There's a pretty good reason why people don't play those characters, and it's because they're ass. When push comes to shove you ain't gonna win shit. Game's relatively balanced but don't throw charts out there and says it's a 5-5 matchup for everyone lol. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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Mitsuwa
United States793 Posts
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Trumpet
United States1936 Posts
On October 29 2012 10:18 ampson wrote: Looks to me like Korea needed MustacheAkuma, PirateAkuma, and Koreasuckballswithoutme. looooooooooool that thread was top tier. to be fair, if Poongko had been able to make it, they'd have a much more legit team. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On October 29 2012 10:18 ampson wrote: Looks to me like Korea needed MustacheAkuma, PirateAkuma, and Koreasuckballswithoutme. RIP BW (just out of curiosity anybody know if he's practicing SC2 atm?) | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 29 2012 10:18 O-ops wrote: I'm saying, the recent tourney chart is stacked against vortexers. Lots of characters have so-and-so who's godlike with them in the states and has a legit shot at taking top 8 at any tourney they enter, but not vortex char. I'm not familiar about Europe or Japan but i assume it's the same thing in Europe and Japan seems like they just have like a group of 8 players that win everything regardless of characters. It's pretty funny how a lot of names that became big in street fighters 4 recently all played character with massive shenanigans. Xian, Infiltration, Poongko, WolfKrone, Latif, Humanbomb, Kazunoko, Eita, the new Sako, and the plethora of Yuns and Yangs. Except for Xian and HumanBomb I don't think I have ever NOT seen a game with those players where i just had my eyebrows raised from them winning with 2 hard knockdowns after the other guy outplayed them for half the round. And why are people speaking like team dynamics and assist/batterry characters don't exist in Marvel? Even the changing the assist on the same character can change gameplay. You got however many team combinations that's viable nowdays and the occasional Spiderman or Modok or Cap and that's somehow not diverse enough? Every characters may not have the same one touch kills bullshit but sure enough you can make it so that every team has that ability, or whatever other flavor you want. Like Gee whiz, I wish i could have another character with godlike walkspeed, good fireball, 3f DP, teleport, good normals, and a godlike vortex to choose from in this game. You're acting like a lot of SF characters don't have strong points? Seems like you don't realize the difference between 100k combinations and 39 combinations, but feel free to try to survive for even a second with someone like Iron Fist against a Magneto point or something like that. Building a team in UMVC3 doesn't take as much thought as you'd think. We have Zero who can 100% -> 0% every single member of the cast if he just lands one hit, at any part of the screen, and it doesn't even matter what kind of a hit it is. His best assist is Jam Session. Dante comboes with Vergil incredibly well, Vergil is the best anchor in the game. Well that's a good team. Actually, which teams do you think are better than 5-5 against Zero-Dante-Vergil? Maybe some MorriDoom one? Out of 100k combinations? That's balanced? For comparison, if Zero-Dante-Vergil was to be as balanced as Cammy in SF4 they'd need to be worse than 5-5 against around 4000 team combinations. Also that's like saying Seth has every option in the game and you can't do anything against it. Seth even has a command throw, Akuma doesn't. Just completely ignore the fact that he dies if you blow at him. Akuma gets stunned in 2 comboes and Teleport can be countered. Here's a question by the way: Dee Jay has a very powerful Vortex, why isn't he top tier? | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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