On July 16 2012 10:39 whoso wrote: so are you supposed to be able to fadc every special attack? its strange, when i to kens cr.h punch xx hurricane kick xx fadc, it only works for me when its the l/m hurricane kick, not for the hard one (though fadc regular hard hurricane kick works). on the other hand, i seem not to be able to fadc ryus hurrican kicks at all?
On July 16 2012 10:39 whoso wrote: so are you supposed to be able to fadc every special attack? its strange, when i to kens cr.h punch xx hurricane kick xx fadc, it only works for me when its the l/m hurricane kick, not for the hard one (though fadc regular hard hurricane kick works). on the other hand, i seem not to be able to fadc ryus hurrican kicks at all?
On July 16 2012 11:18 Lemstar wrote: Not every special is FADCable. For example, Ryu's HP Shoryuken isn't, while LP and MP are. None of Ryu's Tatsus are.
I think all of Ken's Tatsus can be FADCed before the second hit or something.
Pretty sure Ryu's HP SRK is only FADCable on the first hit.
Why is Oni considered bottom tier by the way? I guess no one really plays him because he's considered a "worse akuma", but he can deal over 500 dmg off just 1 jump in with only 2 bars(that he gets back while doing the combo) and his damage otherwise seems really high as well... Bottom tier really? o_O
Oh yeah not to mention he can combo into a forced knockdown off any jab or any light kick.
On July 16 2012 11:18 Lemstar wrote: Not every special is FADCable. For example, Ryu's HP Shoryuken isn't, while LP and MP are. None of Ryu's Tatsus are.
I think all of Ken's Tatsus can be FADCed before the second hit or something.
Pretty sure Ryu's HP SRK is only FADCable on the first hit.
In Ver. 2012 Ryu's HP Shoryuken was changed to one hit and not FADCable / Super Cancelable
On July 16 2012 23:12 Shikyo wrote: Why is Oni considered bottom tier by the way? I guess no one really plays him because he's considered a "worse akuma", but he can deal over 500 dmg off just 1 jump in with only 2 bars(that he gets back while doing the combo) and his damage otherwise seems really high as well... Bottom tier really? o_O
I don't think Oni should be listed as bottom tier unless you are looking at a Pre-2012 tier list. And even if its 2012, there is not unplayable characters. Also tier lists are usually based on character matchups rather than how good a character is. Hes not really an "akuma" type character because he lacks the speed / mixups that akuma has making him play too straightforward and rely on frametraps and his big damage.
On July 16 2012 23:12 Shikyo wrote: Why is Oni considered bottom tier by the way? I guess no one really plays him because he's considered a "worse akuma", but he can deal over 500 dmg off just 1 jump in with only 2 bars(that he gets back while doing the combo) and his damage otherwise seems really high as well... Bottom tier really? o_O
Oh yeah not to mention he can combo into a forced knockdown off any jab or any light kick.
I think Oni bottom tier for a few reasons; He has poor footsie normals so you have to rely on whiff punishing in most match-ups. IMO he loses to every standard shoto because he has similar pokes, that just are not nearly as good His fireballs have horrendous recovery when compared to other shotos You cannot FADC any of his blocked DP's Easily safe jumped on wake up Very little frame advantage He has low vitality
To me it seems that when they made oni, they just nerfed ryu and gave him a few more special move's and target combo's and called it Oni. With that being said i totally think Oni is completely playable as i do main him, you just have to be very cautious with him to be effective.
On July 16 2012 23:12 Shikyo wrote: Why is Oni considered bottom tier by the way? I guess no one really plays him because he's considered a "worse akuma", but he can deal over 500 dmg off just 1 jump in with only 2 bars(that he gets back while doing the combo) and his damage otherwise seems really high as well... Bottom tier really? o_O
Oh yeah not to mention he can combo into a forced knockdown off any jab or any light kick.
I think Oni bottom tier for a few reasons; He has poor footsie normals so you have to rely on whiff punishing in most match-ups. IMO he loses to every standard shoto because he has similar pokes, that just are not nearly as good His fireballs have horrendous recovery when compared to other shotos You cannot FADC any of his blocked DP's Easily safe jumped on wake up Very little frame advantage He has low vitality
To me it seems that when they made oni, they just nerfed ryu and gave him a few more special move's and target combo's and called it Oni. With that being said i totally think Oni is completely playable as i do main him, you just have to be very cautious with him to be effective.
Oni has great normals including the step kick and his long-range roundhouse and f+hp. His antiairs are very good. His fireballs are okay (lightning ones are good in fullscreen fireball wars to get them into a range where you can start using your good pokes), recovery is bad but not Sakura level. His DP is also 3 frames which actually isn't safejumpable at all. He has normal vitality in AE 2012.
Oni also has really excellent combos and his jumping smash is really good for mixups. He's nowhere near as bad as you think.
On July 16 2012 23:12 Shikyo wrote: Why is Oni considered bottom tier by the way? I guess no one really plays him because he's considered a "worse akuma", but he can deal over 500 dmg off just 1 jump in with only 2 bars(that he gets back while doing the combo) and his damage otherwise seems really high as well... Bottom tier really? o_O
Oh yeah not to mention he can combo into a forced knockdown off any jab or any light kick.
I think Oni bottom tier for a few reasons; He has poor footsie normals so you have to rely on whiff punishing in most match-ups. IMO he loses to every standard shoto because he has similar pokes, that just are not nearly as good His fireballs have horrendous recovery when compared to other shotos You cannot FADC any of his blocked DP's Easily safe jumped on wake up Very little frame advantage He has low vitality
To me it seems that when they made oni, they just nerfed ryu and gave him a few more special move's and target combo's and called it Oni. With that being said i totally think Oni is completely playable as i do main him, you just have to be very cautious with him to be effective.
Oni has great normals including the step kick and his long-range roundhouse and f+hp. His antiairs are very good. His fireballs are okay (lightning ones are good in fullscreen fireball wars to get them into a range where you can start using your good pokes), recovery is bad but not Sakura level. His DP is also 3 frames which actually isn't safejumpable at all. He has normal vitality in AE 2012.
Oni also has really excellent combos and his jumping smash is really good for mixups. He's nowhere near as bad as you think.
lol. DP isnt safe jumped, he got health buff in 2012, my bad. He has great anti air normals sure, but his footsie normals are mediocre at best; the f+HP is nice, but most characters can react with a normal of their own as it has a lot of start up. The step kick is good for getting in but its not a reliable footsie tool.
Here I was thinking that his standard MK was good for footsies, also his F+HP startup is only 12 frames which isnt much at all for a move like that and if I understand human mind correctly, you cannot react in 9 frames and that thing has insane priority (Also destroys most projectiles). Most people also aren't going to be spamming normals at that distance because that could leave them quite vulnerable. Honestly I don't understand what's wrong with Oni's footsie game - it's not the best but it's still nowhere near the bottom of the pile.
Also he has a 4 bar combo off a jumpin that deals 930 stun(550 dmg), so basically instastun vs 7 characters at the very least. Can land on a whiffed shoryuken or whatever else you got. I'd imagine a reset into crossup EX slice would be quite strong if Oni has his ultra ready, because with that he could then finish the opponent off even if he was at full hp before that combo. Would easily be enough for instakilling Akuma for instance.
(I mean yeah, it can be predictable, but after taking 550 damage and being stunned, is it realistic to assume the opponent to have the balls to block away from you after Oni does HP -> EX-slice? )
On July 17 2012 09:28 Shikyo wrote: Here I was thinking that his standard MK was good for footsies, also his F+HP startup is only 12 frames which isnt much at all for a move like that and if I understand human mind correctly, you cannot react in 9 frames and that thing has insane priority (Also destroys most projectiles). Most people also aren't going to be spamming normals at that distance because that could leave them quite vulnerable. Honestly I don't understand what's wrong with Oni's footsie game - it's not the best but it's still nowhere near the bottom of the pile.
Also he has a 4 bar combo off a jumpin that deals 930 stun(550 dmg), so basically instastun vs 7 characters at the very least. Can land on a whiffed shoryuken or whatever else you got. I'd imagine a reset into crossup EX slice would be quite strong if Oni has his ultra ready, because with that he could then finish the opponent off even if he was at full hp before that combo. Would easily be enough for instakilling Akuma for instance.
(I mean yeah, it can be predictable, but after taking 550 damage and being stunned, is it realistic to assume the opponent to have the balls to block away from you after Oni does HP -> EX-slice? )
You don't even need the EX (which can be blocked on reaction by the way), HP slash also crosses up and is a lot more ambiguous because it doesn't make him flash yellow (which gives away the mixup against experienced players).
Of course but assuming it's a comeback situation you generally have ultra up at that point and EX slash is a guaranteed ultra. (And yes you can use EX-Slash after a 4 bar combo as you'll be gaining a ton of meter during the combo)
hmm
Oni EX-fireball comboes into crouching jab in the corner, so when the opponent is against the corner you can replace your normal c.LP c.LP c.MP -> fireball combo with c.LP c.LP -> ex-fireball -> c.LP -> c.MP -> fireball for more dmg / chip vs shield.
Bought this game on the Steam sale and played for the first time last night. I'm trying to learn Akuma. I'm planning to get a gamepad as I'm not loving using the keyboard. I have a couple of questions though.
For cancelling, from what I've read it seems like you just input the next attack really quickly during the move to be cancelled. Is that all there is to it?
For Akuma's Raging Demon(LP,LP, -> LK, HP), I'm able to pull off the move, but when I do, the light punches come out before the special move starts. When I was watching Infiltration at EVO, it seemed like he was pulling this move off without any punches coming off beforehand. Is that just from being ungodly fast or is there some trick to it?
On July 18 2012 00:13 laces_out wrote: Bought this game on the Steam sale and played for the first time last night. I'm trying to learn Akuma. I'm planning to get a gamepad as I'm not loving using the keyboard. I have a couple of questions though.
For cancelling, from what I've read it seems like you just input the next attack really quickly during the move to be cancelled. Is that all there is to it?
For Akuma's Raging Demon(LP,LP, -> LK, HP), I'm able to pull off the move, but when I do, the light punches come out before the special move starts. When I was watching Infiltration at EVO, it seemed like he was pulling this move off without any punches coming off beforehand. Is that just from being ungodly fast or is there some trick to it?
Ungodly fast. Raging demon is very easy to do on an arcade stick with practice, and he was also using kara-Demons. Basically, he'll throw out a move like cr. HK. During the animation of the cr. HK, he'll do the input of the raging demon, and when the animation of the cr. HK ends, the demon will come out.
you can actually cancel the whiff animation of some of akuma's moves (f.mp, c.mk, c.rh, far s.rh, etc) into demon. for example, the input to cancel sweep into demon (this is for anti-air, akuma's sweep lowers his hitbox considerably) is
[c.hk + jab], jab, [b + lk + hp]
for things like when he demons Gamerbee for trying instant overhead xx jaggar kick, he's hiding the jabs inside the blockstun from the instant overhead, and inputting -> + lk + hp simultaneously for the demon
akuma is not a good beginner character. he is very difficult to play and gets blown up very fast lol
On July 18 2012 00:13 laces_out wrote: Bought this game on the Steam sale and played for the first time last night. I'm trying to learn Akuma. I'm planning to get a gamepad as I'm not loving using the keyboard.
Me too, I tried out the KB setup but it never felt right so I ordered this guy off of amazon.
Been getting bored of HON/SC2 lately so I'm gonna try and get decent at this game.
EPT
