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2WeaK
Canada550 Posts
On September 29 2011 10:37 LennyLeonard wrote: So I just picked up 'Gief and i must say, ive never felt so....alive! Now i must go protect the Russian skies! russian skies... PRO-TEC-TED! | ||
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dranko
Sweden378 Posts
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Trumpet
United States1936 Posts
On September 29 2011 12:06 dranko wrote: A question about Super Jump Canceling; Is it worth trying to learn with a pad? Seems like one of those things you could only do with a stick, but maybe I just need to train my thumb's dexterity. Absolutely worth learning... For the two characters that can do it. lol Pad doesn't put you at a disadvantage, that's a giant misconception. Last big tournament (T12) was won by a pad viper player, featuring lots of sjcs! Unless you mean is it worth learning st.lk sjc ultra? Only once you can do your bnb's and you actually see situations where knowing it would have helped you in match. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Mitsuwa
United States793 Posts
even if you dont play ryu, the ideology he has for training is still useful to know | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
herp derp nevermind | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On September 29 2011 05:44 o3.power91 wrote: For example, if a beginner were to choose Dhalsim, he will be able to learn a lot of the tactics and tools that make the character that is Dhalsim. But the problem he faces is that many of Dhalsim's tools are very specific to Dhalsim himself and maybe a couple other characters. The same can be said for characters such as Gen, Oni, Juri, Vega and so on. On the other hand, if a beginner were to choose a character such as Ryu, learn the fundamentals of Ryu's game, he has more that can translate over to many characters in the cast. Ryu's Haduken is one of the better and most basic fireballs in the game. His Shoryuken is a staple antiair special and reversal. His list of normal moves are among the most basic in the game. Characters such as Chun-li and Ken can teach beginners the importance of footsies and poking. Guile and Balrog are very simple charge characters with excellent normals that help get beginners into the habit of blocking as well. i don't think ryu is any different from sim if you were to learn the game from the beginning. you can learn to anti-air with sim, you can learn how good his normal moves are and why they're so good, and as you play more and more against people you learn how their characters are supposed to operate as well. they're really not that different. if you want to main someone like gief, why not let them do it from the start? why do you have to learn fireballs and chun li's pokes? juri is super simple too. same with vega. i don't know oni or gen enough to qualify an argument. except hakan, fuerte, and viper, i think it's easy to learn the game with anyone. | ||
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
On September 29 2011 01:22 Trumpet wrote: I still think balrog (boxer) and guile are 100% the best beginner characters, but some people hate charging. Downback all day and cr.fp when they jump (great anti air for both characters!). I don't know about Balrog being a newbie character. I really think the worst way to play as him is to db all day. He's so scary when he just walks forward and catches you with that ridiculous standing lp into a combo and whiff punish with cr. hk. When you ask new players to walk forward, it's the hardest thing for them because they don't understand spacing yet. New players always either hold block or jump in. That's why a true charge character such as Guile is so newbie friendly, but Balrog is really a walk forward boss o.o | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
On September 30 2011 02:41 kainzero wrote: i don't think ryu is any different from sim if you were to learn the game from the beginning. you can learn to anti-air with sim, you can learn how good his normal moves are and why they're so good, and as you play more and more against people you learn how their characters are supposed to operate as well. they're really not that different. if you want to main someone like gief, why not let them do it from the start? why do you have to learn fireballs and chun li's pokes? juri is super simple too. same with vega. i don't know oni or gen enough to qualify an argument. except hakan, fuerte, and viper, i think it's easy to learn the game with anyone. I'd add Gen to your list of characters bad for first timers for sure. The stance switching is pretty tough to get used to and his specials aren't easy to use effectively. I put a bunch of time into Gen when I first got the game because I really like the ideas behind him and found him really frustrating. I've been playing Oni a fair amount lately and think he'd be fine for a beginner. He's fun, his specials are pretty straightforward and he's got a good amount of life. I'd recommend him to a beginner ahead of a lot of the cast. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Kokujin
United States456 Posts
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MaGariShun
Austria305 Posts
On September 30 2011 04:23 Kokujin wrote: ryu is actually hard to pick up for beginners. start with dhalsim and you'll get a great grasp of zoning and anti airs, and unlike starting with ryu, you won't become a jumping retard because with dhalsim, you can't jump without a plan. I'd like to introduce you to dhalsim's jumping fierce. If he starts with sim, he will become a backjumping and crouching fierce tard. Not unlike all those flowchart akumas (backjump airfireball, sweep, repeat) | ||
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Kokujin
United States456 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On September 30 2011 04:23 Kokujin wrote: ryu is actually hard to pick up for beginners. start with dhalsim and you'll get a great grasp of zoning and anti airs, and unlike starting with ryu, you won't become a jumping retard because with dhalsim, you can't jump without a plan. No he isn't The game as a whole is hard to pick up but Ryu is not a difficult character in and of himself to learn. Dhalsim really isn't either but I'd have to say that Ryu is just plain easier. Neither are like Gen, Ibuki, or Viper nonsense...those are ANNOYING to learn to say the least. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On September 30 2011 03:01 broz0rs wrote: When you ask new players to walk forward, it's the hardest thing for them because they don't understand spacing yet. New players always either hold block or jump in. i think they have this innate fear that walking forward is very vulnerable because they're not blocking, as well as the feeling that they're not moving very far very fast which is why they jump or dash. they don't realize that they usually have initiative and that by stopping the walk they can force a whiff, or that the opponent is sometimes just as scared as they are. but i guess that takes a while to learn. i feel like the ONE thing that i would prioritize if i would teach beginners is how to use normals. i get the impression that raw, new players focus so much on doing special moves and super moves just because they look cooler or have more inputs instead of focusing on the actual move properties. then i would teach punishment and cancels, then they can go on their merry way. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
If you want a character to start with just pick Yun, he has all the motions you'll need lol DP punch, dp kick, qcf punch, qcb punch, hcb kick, and divekicks. THEN JUST HIT MP ALOT AND SPECIAL CANCEL TO UPKICKS EZPZ | ||
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_PulSe_
United States541 Posts
On September 30 2011 07:18 kainzero wrote: i think they have this innate fear that walking forward is very vulnerable because they're not blocking, as well as the feeling that they're not moving very far very fast which is why they jump or dash. they don't realize that they usually have initiative and that by stopping the walk they can force a whiff, or that the opponent is sometimes just as scared as they are. but i guess that takes a while to learn. i feel like the ONE thing that i would prioritize if i would teach beginners is how to use normals. i get the impression that raw, new players focus so much on doing special moves and super moves just because they look cooler or have more inputs instead of focusing on the actual move properties. then i would teach punishment and cancels, then they can go on their merry way. The Reasons you stated are the EXACT reasons that a new player would be good off playing Boxer. I've taught a friend to play and the first thing you have to do is establish a solid fundamental base. I would say the main things you need to do to level up would be: 1. Learning to block- This is much more complicated than one might think. I don't mean learning to hold back when someone is hitting you. I mean learning when it would be more applicable to sit there and block as opposed to trying to press a button or trying to do ANYTHING. Lots of players take every chance they get to attempt to reestablish momentum and start hitting buttons or uppercutting. This will get read mostly after 1 game and you will begin to see diminishing returns on everything and will start getting punished harshly in the long run. Boxer is good at teaching people this because he has virtually no safe reversals thus teaching people to block more. Tips: pay attention to your opponents meter/character they are playing as well as your life compared to theirs. If you're opponent is low on life and looking to make a comeback than a vast majority of players will attempt their DPxxFADCxxUltra. You need to recognize when a player is putting it on and getting desperate and just block. 2. Using your normals- The difference between a phenomenal player and an above average casual player would be their knowledge base of their normals and what beats what. Once again Boxer is very good at teaching people to use their normals simply because he has some of the best in the game. simple enough. P.S. This i will admit is more character knowledge than overall knowledge. 3. Spacing- It becomes way too easy with Ryu and Dhalsim to start trying to rely on a few key methods to spacing. IE s.strong for Dhalsim and fireballs for Ryu. These will start to get punished very heavily as you face better and better players and from my experience cause people to get very frustrated in trying to progress their skills. I recommend boxer because he has what I would say is the best anti-air normal in the game to protect the skies and doesn't rely on quick muscle memory of a DP at perfect timings. Boxer requires you to know your distances and to punish their spacing mistakes while limiting a new player from simply trying to spam a tactic or follow a flow-chart. 4. Fundamental mix-ups- I don't mean those ridiculous Ibuki mix-ups everybody in this thread has apparently been trying to learn. I mean mixing up between throwing and punishing throw techs and mixing up when you BLOCK(yes, it is a mix up). Mixing up which normals you use(which goes back to number 2) to punish theirs and to maintain spacing (#3). This is a wonderful example of Justin Wong simply showing fundamental gameplay. He doesn't attempt to abuse overhead mix ups. He doesn't try to bully his way to victory too much, he just simply plays a better overall fundamental game, which boxer excels at. edit: also I would like to mention that once you are able to maintain a fundamental type of game it becomes super super easy to add in the complicated mix ups and the mind games. As each of those respectively is supposed to mess with your opponents abilities to play their fundamental game. I recommend Boxer over those other characters because i want to recommend a character that can take you far on the fundamentals of gameplay. to be successful with Ryu or Dhalsim above an average casual level requires a TON of work in the mindgame department. Dhalsim has almost 6 different anti-airs that you have to know which one to use in every situation off the top of your head. I don't believe newer players will be able to take them very far and they will get frustrated once they routinely face players around 2300-3000 pp. (not that that means anything by itself) I hope this helps. Also i've posted it before but my PC tag is "PulSeVB" and 360 is "Zombieonaswing" and im on the east coast and am willing to play with whoever is down. | ||
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
 I'm decent with a bunch of characters.. playing just one is boring. | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On September 30 2011 02:41 kainzero wrote: i don't think ryu is any different from sim if you were to learn the game from the beginning. you can learn to anti-air with sim, you can learn how good his normal moves are and why they're so good, and as you play more and more against people you learn how their characters are supposed to operate as well. they're really not that different. if you want to main someone like gief, why not let them do it from the start? why do you have to learn fireballs and chun li's pokes? juri is super simple too. same with vega. i don't know oni or gen enough to qualify an argument. except hakan, fuerte, and viper, i think it's easy to learn the game with anyone. Ryu's normals are simply a more standard set of normals than Dhalsim's are. Like someone mentioned, a beginner may get reliant on Sim's long range normals and could have difficulties applying the same spacing concepts with different characters. Juri has good normals and footsies too although past that, she has a lot of mixup and reset options that may get confusing for beginners. Furthermore, advanced combos using her fireball could be hard as well. Vega is not a difficult character per se, and although he has good normals and footsies as well, he is still an unorthodox character. And I think before a player learns unorthodox play, it is important to understand what is orthodox in order to truly understand what makes an unorthodox character unique. Also, if a player wants to play any character, basic or unorthodox, as a starter, there's no reason to pick a better beginner character. In fact, if you are dead set on playing Gief for example, I would recommend you stick to him. A good beginner character is just a recommendation, not a boundary, for a new player. | ||
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Shraft
Sweden701 Posts
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