EPTI absolutely love the xbox controller, by the way. It's one of the main reasons I bought an xbox over a PS3. But yeah, I have trouble finding games oftentimes (Ausfailia) :/
What's this about 'cancelled' moves?
Ultra Street Fighter IV - Page 130
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
I absolutely love the xbox controller, by the way. It's one of the main reasons I bought an xbox over a PS3. But yeah, I have trouble finding games oftentimes (Ausfailia) :/ What's this about 'cancelled' moves? | ||
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Parkson90
Singapore2 Posts
On August 23 2011 22:29 Parkson90 wrote: Hi guys, I just bought a copy of the SSF4:AE PC edition. I installed the game, signed up for windows live and everything is fine. After I verify the CD key and sign in the game prompts me to update but it keeps saying "update failed". I can't sign in and only have limited functionality in the game. Help anyone? Sorry if it has been asked before. Guys help please  Thanks alot! | ||
GTR
51577 Posts
On August 23 2011 23:01 youngminii wrote: Thanks for the tips chasfrank. I have to admit, I did jump online for a bit, knowing nothing about the game. I did the same for SC2 though and I ended up okay. I'm quite competitive in games so I know I won't be giving up any time soon. I'm starting with a friend too, and I hope he's competitive, but either way he'll be my main guy to practice with. I absolutely love the xbox controller, by the way. It's one of the main reasons I bought an xbox over a PS3. But yeah, I have trouble finding games oftentimes (Ausfailia) :/ What's this about 'cancelled' moves? import a hori real arcade pro from amazon (it's what i did for my ps3). either that or be an idiot and pay an extra $120 for a fightstick from jb. | ||
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chasfrank
Gambia59 Posts
On August 23 2011 23:01 youngminii wrote: Thanks for the tips chasfrank. I have to admit, I did jump online for a bit, knowing nothing about the game. I did the same for SC2 though and I ended up okay. I'm quite competitive in games so I know I won't be giving up any time soon. I'm starting with a friend too, and I hope he's competitive, but either way he'll be my main guy to practice with. I absolutely love the xbox controller, by the way. It's one of the main reasons I bought an xbox over a PS3. But yeah, I have trouble finding games oftentimes (Ausfailia) :/ What's this about 'cancelled' moves? Glad to help. But I think SC2 is different in the sense that practicing is actually playing the game, whereas in SF4 (and probably fighting games overall) you probably won't get to practice your new combos in an actual match. Now I'm not saying actually playing isn't practice, it obviously is – just think of the training mode in fighting games as the build order tester of SC2. You can freestyle it up as much as you wish but in the end you'll just have to sit down and figure out a proper build. Just employing the special moves you have learnt in training mode in a real match is incredibly hard. Regarding cancelled moves: There are several cancel options, but the one I was talking about is cancelling a normal move into a special attack. It's when you input a normal attack (for example a crouching heavy punch) and then, before the animation of the attack is finished, you input a special attack (such as fireball/hadouken); that way the animation of the heavy punch will be cancelled and the fireball starts up immediately, which results in an unblockable fireball if the heavy punch has connected first. At high(er) levels people use things called "hit confirms", which is just a string of normal attacks to see if they can follow up with an unblockable special move. If their attacks connect, they do the special, if the attacks are blocked, they withhold the special so they aren't vulnerable to a counterattack. Edit: Also, for anyone looking for a somewhat affordable TE Fightstick: I called the German Madcatz offices earlier today, I was told they still have a few TE Round 2s in stock at ~150 Euros a piece, you'll just have to call them. Also that zavvi.com site someone suggested has an even cheaper Round 2 stick at ~95 GBP, though I don't know about shipping costs. | ||
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Mannerheim
766 Posts
On August 24 2011 03:24 chasfrank wrote: Regarding cancelled moves: There are several cancel options, but the one I was talking about is cancelling a normal move into a special attack. It's when you input a normal attack (for example a crouching heavy punch) and then, before the animation of the attack is finished, you input a special attack (such as fireball/hadouken); that way the animation of the heavy punch will be cancelled and the fireball starts up immediately, which results in an unblockable fireball if the heavy punch has connected first. At high(er) levels people use things called "hit confirms", which is just a string of normal attacks to see if they can follow up with an unblockable special move. If their attacks connect, they do the special, if the attacks are blocked, they withhold the special so they aren't vulnerable to a counterattack. Don't use the term "unblockable" in this context though. In fighting games in general, an unblockable setup is something that e.g. hits simultaneously overhead and low, and is thus impossible to block. When you cancel a (connecting) normal into a special, the opponent remains in hit stun the whole time, so it's a different thing. SF4 doesn't have unblockables, but e.g. in MvC3 you can do it with certain assists. | ||
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SayaSP
Laos5494 Posts
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TonyL2
England1953 Posts
Ryu + Show Spoiler + The biggest change is to his Metsu Shoryuken (Ultra 2), we made it much easier to use. First, we improved its function as an anti air. The vertical hitbox is larger and it is easy to the the lock (full ultra) hit. Also, if you manage to get a good read on your opponent and land a counter hit EX Fireball, you can combo into Ultra 2. You will only get the full ultra if the EX Fireball counter hit the opponent. For example, if you threw out a Crouching Medium Kick and it was focused you could then do EX Fireball → FADC → Dash → U2. You could get upwards of 500 damage with this, giving you a chance to make a heavy comeback in one shot. If you are very close to your opponent, you could combo Ultra 2 off an EX Fireball without a focus cancel. Other things The effective frames for the "brake" on a rising Air Hurricane Kick has been reduced by 3 frames (from the front of the "brake" frames). When you use it on these frames, the trajectory of your Hurricane Kick will change (larger window for a "normal" air Hurricane Kick). Solar Plexus Strike is now 40+60, giving you 100 points of damage. You can combo into Crouching Hard Kick no matter what your opponent's character is from a Close Standing Hard Kick. Chun-Li + Show Spoiler + • Head Stomps will come out when holding down-forward, not just down. They note that down-back doesn't work, though. • Kintekishu (Back + Medium Kick) +3 advantage on counter hit, easier to hit confirm into the second hit. • Her Sweep (Crouching Hard Kick) has 150 stun. • Fireball startup is 9 frames, easier to use as anti air and in combos. • They are fixing the bug where characters fell out of the Ultra 1 juggle in Arcade Edition. Ken + Show Spoiler + • Target combo hits easier on crouching opponents, can also delay the inputs. • EX Shoryuken damage 80+30+30+50, for 190 total. This did 180 damage in Arcade Edition. E. Honda + Show Spoiler + • Light Punch Headbutt gets its upper body invincibility back. • Medium Punch Headbutt loses invincibility, so it works the same way as Light Punch Headbutt did in Arcade Edition. Blanka + Show Spoiler + • Each Rolling Attack (Beast Roll) gets an extra 10 in damage, so Light Punch 110, Medium Punch 120, Hard Punch 130, EX 120. • For Hard Punch and EX Ball, if it hits on the second frame (same frame where Focus Attack cancel is possible), it causes a knock down. Will be easier to follow-up EX Ball with additional hits if Focus Attack Dash Cancelled. • Charged Rock Crusher gives Blanka a +5 frame advantage, so he can do Rock Crusher, c.MK, Hard Punch Rolling Attack as a combo. Zangief + Show Spoiler + • Light Punch Spinning Pile Driver does 150 stun. Up from 100 in Arcade Edition. • EX Green Hand (Banishing Flat) damage 90+50 for a total of 140. Stun 100+50 for a total of 150. Damage in Arcade Edition was 130 and stun was 100. • Adjusted the hitbox on Crouching Light Punch, so that it hits more easily off a jump-in against characters it formerly didn't. • Hurtbox for Crouching Hard Kick reduced in height, making it easier to pass under certain attacks. Guile + Show Spoiler + • Balance adjustments centered around the changes made to him from Super to Arcade Edition. • The frames in which Guile could be counter-hit after Sonic Boom have been eliminated? (Not 100% sure). • Air throws have 3 frames of startup now, this is down from 4 in Arcade Edition. • Toward + Hard Punch does 100 damage, up from 90 in SSF4 AE. • Can't be thrown out of upside down kick from the 6th frame until the last active frame. Dhalsim + Show Spoiler + • Yoga Inferno (Super move) damage 75 x 2, 60 x 3 for a total of 330 damage. This did 300 damage in Arcade Edition. • EX Yoga Blast damage 90 + 50. First hit gets 20 more damage, second hit 20 less, so if Dhalsim only gets the first hit he gets the better damage. • Standing Light Punch active for 4 frames. But other frame info unaltered. • Hurtbox on Yoga Blast reduced. • Can follow up Yoga Blast with additional moves for combo. Balrog + Show Spoiler + • Headbutt damage fixed back to Super, Medium Punch 120, Hard Punch 140 and EX 150. • Ultra 2 damage is 399, up from 300 in Arcade Edition. • Hit properties on Dash Overhead changed so that it can combo into Crouching Medium Punch on all characters. • Close Standing Hard Punch hitbox extended downwards so that it hits crouching characters that it used to whiff on. Sagat + Show Spoiler + • Angry Scar Tiger Uppercut damage increased: LP, MP and EX add +10 damage. C. Viper + Show Spoiler + • Medium Punch Thunder Knuckle's damage reduced by 10, down to 110 damage. • EX Thunder Knuckle startup reduced to 25 frames, but +2 recovery. • EX Seismo's (Ground Pound) damage reduced by 20, down to 100 damage. • Ultra 1 reduced to 441 damage, down from 480. • Ultra 1 hitbox improved so it's easier to hit fully after Air Burn Kick and Hard Punch Thunder Knuckle. • Ultra 2 damage increased to 410, up from 380 in Arcade Edition. Vega + Show Spoiler + We thought that Claw players would only want a few more improvements, so we changed a couple of small things. • Crouching Hard Kick damage increased to 110, same as SSF4. • +1 more frame of hitstun on the opponent after a Cosmic Heel, making it -3 at worst. • Sky High Claw causes a knockdown when it hits a grounded opponent. • Ultra 1 hitbox after it hits on the way up increased drastically so that it doesn't unexpectedly miss. When he hits with the knee, the hitbox has been greatly expanded to prevent people from falling out. • Ultra 2 startup changed to 8 frames. It had 9 frames of startup in Arcade Edition. M. Bison + Show Spoiler + • Scissor Kick stun changed to 100/50 (150 total) on all strengths. Previously the Light and Medium Scissor Kicks did 100 stun. • First hit causes 1 frame of extra hitstun, so if you Focus Attack Dash Cancel the first hit you can have +5 advantage at best. But these seem to me to be (on the whole) the decent characters that aren't S-tier or bottom tier, will be interesting what happens to the HK fighters and Dan/Hakan etc Although we don't know what's happening to the twins, I wonder if the changes so far for Dhalsim are significant enough to handle them | ||
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Mannerheim
766 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:02 SayaSP wrote: SF4 has unblockables. They are just very specific. Things like getting counter-hit out of a move to cancel it early (aka. normal tool-assisted combo video stuff) don't really count though, since no one can do those on demand. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:20 Mannerheim wrote: Things like getting counter-hit out of a move to cancel it early (aka. normal tool-assisted combo video stuff) don't really count though, since no one can do those on demand. The unblockables I think he's referring to are the shoto-specific ones where certain attacks will land directly pixel-perfect over a shoto's head such that if they block the normal direction it crosses up, but if they block crossup it hits in front. I thought they patched those out of AE though?? | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:20 Mannerheim wrote: Things like getting counter-hit out of a move to cancel it early (aka. normal tool-assisted combo video stuff) don't really count though, since no one can do those on demand. there are certainly some that are applicable. on trade with her own cl.fp, sakura can link s.lk depending on what move was traded with. it works with most normals that you trade with because the hitstun on her cl.fp is so long. this isn't something anyone struggle with, uryo even landed it on a guy at godsgarden | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:15 TonyL2 wrote: I know it was only posted a page ago, but I wanna see what people's thoughts are on the initial changes for AE2012, only for 13 characters so far and definitely not final Chun-Li + Show Spoiler + • Head Stomps will come out when holding down-forward, not just down. They note that down-back doesn't work, though. • Kintekishu (Back + Medium Kick) +3 advantage on counter hit, easier to hit confirm into the second hit. • Her Sweep (Crouching Hard Kick) has 150 stun. • Fireball startup is 9 frames, easier to use as anti air and in combos. • They are fixing the bug where characters fell out of the Ultra 1 juggle in Arcade Edition. I was reading through the Chun forums and someone quoted Azrael (the guy doing the translating) directly from a PM or something. If I'm not mistaken, it's her U2 that's reduced to 9f startup, not her fireball. Her U2 is currently 10f startup so that would make more sense than reducing a 14/12/10f startup fireball to 9f startup. Probably got "Kikoken" and "Kikosho" mixed up As a Chun player, I hope I'm wrong XD Edit: Azrael just noted that it was a mis-translation. It's supposed to be Kikosho, not Kikoken that was buffed in startup. | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
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Mannerheim
766 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:45 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: there are certainly some that are applicable. on trade with her own cl.fp, sakura can link s.lk depending on what move was traded with. it works with most normals that you trade with because the hitstun on her cl.fp is so long. this isn't something anyone struggle with, uryo even landed it on a guy at godsgarden That's just a counter-hit combo though, not an unblockable since the other guy is still in hit stun. The closest to an unblockable setup in this game is probably Seth's meaty sonic boom > FADC > teleport to other side > something, and I think even that is perfectly blockable (just difficult). | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On August 24 2011 05:17 Mannerheim wrote: That's just a counter-hit combo though, not an unblockable since the other guy is still in hit stun. The closest to an unblockable setup in this game is probably Seth's meaty sonic boom > FADC > teleport to other side > something, and I think even that is perfectly blockable (just difficult). yeah, i wasn't saying it's unblockable. i'm just saying that the thing Saya described, people can do those on command, because it's pretty easy with some moves is ryu's U1 unblockable still in the game? lol | ||
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
On August 24 2011 03:24 chasfrank wrote: Regarding cancelled moves: There are several cancel options, but the one I was talking about is cancelling a normal move into a special attack. It's when you input a normal attack (for example a crouching heavy punch) and then, before the animation of the attack is finished, you input a special attack (such as fireball/hadouken); that way the animation of the heavy punch will be cancelled and the fireball starts up immediately, which results in an unblockable fireball if the heavy punch has connected first. At high(er) levels people use things called "hit confirms", which is just a string of normal attacks to see if they can follow up with an unblockable special move. If their attacks connect, they do the special, if the attacks are blocked, they withhold the special so they aren't vulnerable to a counterattack. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your definition, but I want to make a note here. The special move does not necessarily have to hit the opponent in order for it to be considered a cancel. For example, I plaly as Seth and I use [cr.mk xx hp sonic boom] (cr.mk cancel into hp sonic boom) it is a 2 hit combo. However from the full range of cr.mk, I can also [cr.mk xx lp sonic boom]. It is still a cancel but my opponent will have recovered from the cr.mk before the sonic boom connects. Furthermore, you can cancel blocked normals into specials. For instance, Seth's close st.hp is -7 on block, however, I can cancel the move as soon as he blocks it directly into a sonic boom as part of a true blockstring which will leave me at -5 on block and with a bit more distance so it will be a bit safer. Another thing, to clarify better, instead of saying you are cancelling a normal before it's finished, you can say, cancel it during it's Active frames. I don't believe you can cancel moves in startup frames and you can't cancel during recovery frames. Please correct me if I'm wrong  | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
never really questioned how the cammy unblockable is such. like an aegis unblockable wouldn't work here (ex. sim's u1 teleport). maybe its more of the property of projectiles between games than the system on blocking (3s projectile's property of having to be blocked on the side it started from i presume). not AE but relevant: i main urien but can someone explain to me how corner kneedrop unblockables are unblockable? | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
On August 24 2011 05:39 o3.power91 wrote: Another thing, to clarify better, instead of saying you are cancelling a normal before it's finished, you can say, cancel it during it's Active frames. I don't believe you can cancel moves in startup frames and you can't cancel during recovery frames. Please correct me if I'm wrong You can issue the cancel command during startup or active frames, but the actual cancel itself won't occur until the move's active frames. | ||
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chasfrank
Gambia59 Posts
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