On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT.
Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad.
Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed.
Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme.
So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement?
Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game.
Asomugha's been hands down the top corner for the last 3 years, and it hasn't even been close except for the media attempting to hype people like Revis (who's pretty good too). Even Peyton Manning refuses to throw to his side because the conversion rate is so low. This guy has actually been remarkably under the radar for someone THIS DOMINATING.
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT.
Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad.
Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed.
Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme.
So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement?
Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game.
No no no. Asomugha does not have crazy interception numbers - nobody throws the ball at him, there is no ball to intercept. Nate Clement is an average cornerback, he was on the Bills and he was in San Francisco; everyone knew the Niners overpaid.
Just because you can't tell that Asomugha is elite doesn't mean that corner backs are suddenly low impact or that corner back defense is "subjective." It's easy to see that Calvin Johnson is an almost perfect wide receiver. It's easy to see that Clay Matthews is a terror off the edges but not a fabulous cover linebacker. It's easy to see that Sam Bradford has supreme arm strength and good accuracy.
Corner, Tackle, Fullback, Nose Tackle...these guys you have to watch for the whole game to really see. They don't have the ball in their hands, plays rarely develop around them but they are as crucial as Tailbacks, Outside Linebackers and Defensive Ends.
I didn't check on Vikes for about 3 weeks and when I check it say's Sidney Rice and Tavaris Jackson to Seattle?!?! Then they get Donovan McNab?!?!, I have nothing against McNab, but he is old... damn I guess ever since that loss vs New Orleans (NFC Championship) it's all been down hill from there... well, not this year.
On August 03 2011 05:44 eshlow wrote: Also, as much as I don't like Randy Moss all that much he should be a sure fire HOFer. 5th in yds and 2td in TDs to Rice... completely dominated games in his prime.
Riddle me this. Assuming Moss makes it in, what team does he go in as? Patriot, where he won his super bowls and was part of a record setting offense, or Vikings where he exploded onto the NFL and was part of a different record setting offense?
Vikes makes sense, but he loves him some Bill Belly. Isn't it up to the player?
given that players don't go into the hall with respect to a certain team like they do in baseball (lol clemens), it's kind of moot
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT.
Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad.
Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed.
Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme.
So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement?
Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game.
No no no. Asomugha does not have crazy interception numbers - nobody throws the ball at him, there is no ball to intercept. Nate Clement is an average cornerback, he was on the Bills and he was in San Francisco; everyone knew the Niners overpaid.
Just because you can't tell that Asomugha is elite doesn't mean that corner backs are suddenly low impact or that corner back defense is "subjective." It's easy to see that Calvin Johnson is an almost perfect wide receiver. It's easy to see that Clay Matthews is a terror off the edges but not a fabulous cover linebacker. It's easy to see that Sam Bradford has supreme arm strength and good accuracy.
Corner, Tackle, Fullback, Nose Tackle...these guys you have to watch for the whole game to really see. They don't have the ball in their hands, plays rarely develop around them but they are as crucial as Tailbacks, Outside Linebackers and Defensive Ends.
That's a great way of putting it, especially for o-line and CB. It's easy to see an amazing interception or a powerful pancake and become enamored of a player when in fact it was just one play for a position that has to succeed virtually every time to be considered adequate.
On August 03 2011 05:44 eshlow wrote: Also, as much as I don't like Randy Moss all that much he should be a sure fire HOFer. 5th in yds and 2td in TDs to Rice... completely dominated games in his prime.
Riddle me this. Assuming Moss makes it in, what team does he go in as? Patriot, where he won his super bowls and was part of a record setting offense, or Vikings where he exploded onto the NFL and was part of a different record setting offense?
Vikes makes sense, but he loves him some Bill Belly. Isn't it up to the player?
Nope! Football players do not go into the hall of fame as members of a particular team. Their bust just lists every team they played with in chronological order. Much different than hall of fames for other sports.
On August 03 2011 13:38 Pangolin wrote: Carlson had a good rookie season and has gotten worse every year since. He had only 31 receptions last year, or something close that. He is also a holdover from the old regime, and the new gm (whose name I forget atm) and Carrol have no qualms about getting rid of guys who used to be good but aren't showing it anymore. Basically, I wouldn't be surprised if Carlson gets cut. If not, well there's nothing wrong with running a 2 TE scheme, New England uses Gronkowski and Hernandez after all.
Ok thanks. I blindly attributed Carlson's drop off to having an aging Hasslebeck and Whitehurst throwing to him, but it's certainly possible he's regressed every year. Also, my main knowledge of is from him constantly burning the 49ers in the past 3 years... lol.
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT.
Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad.
Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed.
Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme.
So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement?
Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game.
Comparing Asomugha to Clements is like comparing a 5-star restaurant to an overpriced Applebees in a bad location. Sure Applebees is a good restaurant, but you know you're overpaying for food you could easily make at home. Clements is an above average CB who plays well when being physical and jamming the WR at the line... the 49ers D generally had him playing back and this hurt his game. Also in no way is Clements in the same line of talent as Asomugha.
Asomugha doesn't get the highlights as other DBs do because nobody throws to him (and he didn't play for a team that got much TV coverage) but he's elite. That said he mostly played man coverage and the Eagles would be wise to continue to use him in Man... not zone coverage. I don't know what their defensive scheme usually is...
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT.
I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
We'll see how their new D-coordinator does as well. And if Vick can stay injury free...... Vince young coming in is like a poor man versino of Vick so if teams can figure them out like they started to do last year then Young will probably do poorly especially in a new system.
edit: lol
BREAKING NEWS: #Eagles have agreed to terms with former Dolphins RB Ronnie Brown on a one-year deal.
That's crazy. Asomugha is amazing. He is, without a doubt, one of the top 10 football players in the NFL. There is a huge marginal difference between lining up Asomugha and lining up good but not great corners, like Brandon Flowers or Vontae Davis. Could Nnamdi suddenly hit a wall athletically? Yeah, I suppose that's possible, but that's possible for any player in the NFL. Would you be saying the same thing if the signing had been Andre Johnson or Demarcus Ware?
Can you guys read?
I said he was going to be solid. Or extremely reliable if you want to put it that way.
When teams play against the eagles this season I expect they will go more towards 2 TE sets and running the ball to neutralize the effectiveness of the Eagles CBs.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles trade Samuels either.
On August 03 2011 05:44 eshlow wrote: Also, as much as I don't like Randy Moss all that much he should be a sure fire HOFer. 5th in yds and 2td in TDs to Rice... completely dominated games in his prime.
Riddle me this. Assuming Moss makes it in, what team does he go in as? Patriot, where he won his super bowls and was part of a record setting offense, or Vikings where he exploded onto the NFL and was part of a different record setting offense?
Vikes makes sense, but he loves him some Bill Belly. Isn't it up to the player?
Nope! Football players do not go into the hall of fame as members of a particular team. Their bust just lists every team they played with in chronological order. Much different than hall of fames for other sports.
But the real question is does anyone actually believe that Randy will stay out? He's already tried to retire once. Will he stay retied this time?
On August 03 2011 05:44 eshlow wrote: Also, as much as I don't like Randy Moss all that much he should be a sure fire HOFer. 5th in yds and 2td in TDs to Rice... completely dominated games in his prime.
Riddle me this. Assuming Moss makes it in, what team does he go in as? Patriot, where he won his super bowls and was part of a record setting offense, or Vikings where he exploded onto the NFL and was part of a different record setting offense?
Vikes makes sense, but he loves him some Bill Belly. Isn't it up to the player?
Nope! Football players do not go into the hall of fame as members of a particular team. Their bust just lists every team they played with in chronological order. Much different than hall of fames for other sports.
But the real question is does anyone actually believe that Randy will stay out? He's already tried to retire once. Will he stay retied this time?
I seriously doubt he stays retired for long. Some team will call him.
On August 04 2011 05:16 Slaughter wrote: Nick Fairley hurt his foot and is seeing a specialist T_T
It was funny to hear the specialist he was seeing was in Charlotte, I have such a negative view of local doctors after the Panthers' surgeon destroyed Patrick Jeffers' career.
Certainly not the way you want to make your début in the league as a lineman with foot surgery, it will be interesting to see if durability becomes an issue.
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
Can you guys read?
I said he was going to be solid. Or extremely reliable if you want to put it that way.
When teams play against the eagles this season I expect they will go more towards 2 TE sets and running the ball to neutralize the effectiveness of the Eagles CBs.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles trade Samuels either.
Don't make this about our reading. Either you were wrong and can't admit it or you wrote a bad sentence. Look at that sentence again. Why would you put "unfortunately" if you're praising him? We're telling you he's more than solid (or extremely reliable, if you want to put it that way;) if one player is going to make an entire team go into a 2 TE set more often, then he's already doing more than a great job.
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately.
Can you guys read?
I said he was going to be solid. Or extremely reliable if you want to put it that way.
When teams play against the eagles this season I expect they will go more towards 2 TE sets and running the ball to neutralize the effectiveness of the Eagles CBs.
I also wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles trade Samuels either.
Don't make this about our reading. Either you were wrong and can't admit it or you wrote a bad sentence. Look at that sentence again. Why would you put "unfortunately" if you're praising him? We're telling you he's more than solid (or extremely reliable, if you want to put it that way;) if one player is going to make an entire team go into a 2 TE set more often, then he's already doing more than a great job.
Its unfortunate because he is a REDSKINS fan. Something that should be fairly obvious if you have been following the thread (see massive Redskins focused posts). Do you actively root for your rival teams to play at all-star levels so they can stomp you year in and year out?
Also uhh, you realize top-end CBs have been put on TEs a lot, in the past, right? Like Champ Bailey on Gates. I have no idea how they'll use Nnamdi but they've got a lot of options with that trio, unless they trade one of them, and so it wouldn't surprise me if you try to go 2TE and they just stick one of their all-star CBs on the top TE :p
EPT
