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FQD1911
83 Posts
1) will there be football? or will the owners try to make a power move on the players (or vice versa)? 2) your thoughts on the draft? is this a stacked or weak draft? who do you think will be the best player out? bust? 3) will GB repeat? (as a Bears fan, it disgusts me to even ask that, but TRYING to remain unbias). aaaannd....ACTION! | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
With the collusion with restricted FAs, the big ticket coaches sitting in the TV booths unwooed and owners making unusual choices (Garrett in Dallas, the SS Chargers still anchored by Norv) and the owners' posture at the current negotiations, I believe their plan is to hold to their demands and they expect the union to fold by the spring/summer of 2012. I also believe the only way that's not going to happen is if the union caves earlier. 2) As a Panther fan, I'm absolutely terrified that we're going to draft Fairley (+ Show Spoiler + I hate mobile QBs in the NFL (as in more than 33% of their appeal is their running ability, not a Steve Young or Steve McNair), but I believe Newton has a chance to be more of a Roethlisberger than a Vick; Vick's greatest weakness is that he's so damned fast. Roethlisberger has two rings because he's a tank, he gets arm tackled and wrapped up around his ankle and stays alive until someone comes open. I'd take Brees or Rodgers 10 times out of 10 over Roethlisberger, but I'd rather have Roethlisberger or V.Young than Vick. I feel like it's going to be a good draft, it just doesn't have as many big names as we're perhaps used to seeing. After I saw the Panthers and Bears live and in person I was rooting for us to get #1 overall and Andrew Luck for the entire rest of the season; Clausen/Moore vs. Todd Collins, perhaps the most awful thing I've ever seen in person and the definition of offensive offense. Now that we can't get him I'm disappointed we didn't win a couple more. I love both Peterson and Amukamara (I'm a Husker fan, born in Lincoln). There's definitely no joy in having the #1 overall when there isn't a #1 talent on the board and if we draft Fairley or Bowers for no other reason than "you never take a gamble on a corner with the #1 pick" I will be disappointed. I love what a shutdown corner does for a team. 3) Repeating in the NFL is so hard, I'd make GB the favorites and if I had a gun to my head I'd pick them, but only because I don't have a stronger horse to pick. Still waiting for Matty Ice and Whacko Flacco to take another step, if either of them ever do there's a chance it'll be Atlanta or Baltimore. I really hope Bradford regains the form he had in the first half of the season, the Rams were so gutty early on. That division is so bad, the Rams could really make strides and provide some stability to the NFC West. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
 1) The owners have already tried to make a power move on the players. Current deal is a 16 game season, owners get the first $1B and the rest is split 60/40 in the players' favor. Owners want an 18 game season where they get the first $2B then split the rest 60/40 in the players' favor. Plus rookie salary limits (remember the average NFL player lasts only ~4 seasons). I usually view these disputes with indifference as it's millionaires vs billionaires, but in this case the owners seem to be asking for a lot without giving the players anything. So what will happen? I honestly have no idea. But the NFL has capitalized on the MLB and NHL strikes to increase its market size (along with other factors, like great marketing of the league in general). I think the owners will have to weigh the risk of losing that versus getting concessions from the players; in the end they'll probably keep things close to the way they are now with 1 major concession from the players. 2) Seems like the draft is strong at WR and along the DL, weak at RB (or shallow, if you consider Ingram above the rest) and maybe C/G. At CB Peterson is top notch and should go 2nd or 3rd, Amukamara could go top 10. There's actually a couple good FBs in the draft (Havili and Marecic in particular), but NFL offenses are moving away from that... I think Carolina will take Fairley. Sorry Quesa The talent is too much to pass up.3) Probably not, if nothing other than the odds being against repeats in general. As long as the Patriots have Brady and Beli they'll be one of the favorites. Aside from their formidable skill, the best thing the Pack has going is that the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, and Jets (even the Chargers if they fix their special teams/coaching issues) all play in the AFC. | ||
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
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tstream07
United States16 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On February 14 2011 15:53 Signet wrote:I think Carolina will take Fairley. Sorry Quesa The talent is too much to pass up.+ Show Spoiler + If he's topping all of the charts after the combine and the Panthers don't make any comments about 'character evaluation' in the run up to the draft I won't even watch, Ugh. | ||
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Biggo
Australia185 Posts
As a Vikings fan, we obviously need a QB, but with no pre-season for them to gel with the team i think 2011 is going to be a lost season either way. The draft doesn't seem to be as stacked as previous years. No consensus #1 QB nor talent it seems. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
re: Vikings, I've seen a few mock drafts that have them taking Newton. Great fit imo. They already have Peterson and Gerhart at RB and a ton of receiving options, adding in Newton could make them really imba on offense in 2-3 years. | ||
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SpiritAshura
United States1271 Posts
On February 14 2011 20:12 Biggo wrote: I think the 2011 season is definitely in danger, the pre-season is as good as shut down, which will make the year very interesting if it does happen (ie players out of shape, offences/defences out of sync). As a Vikings fan, we obviously need a QB, but with no pre-season for them to gel with the team i think 2011 is going to be a lost season either way. The draft doesn't seem to be as stacked as previous years. No consensus #1 QB nor talent it seems. Pre-season won't happen next year you're right. The out of shape players thing will be big too; get to see who uses their time wisely and improves instead of slacking. GL being a Vikings fan this season sir. On a personal note, I just went snowboarding and wore a Dez Bryant jersey (Cowboys) snowboarding and had at least 5-6 conversations just from that. Dallas needs A GOD DAMN OL DRAFT PICK OR TWO. PLEASE. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
It's funny because every year I declare I won't invest myself as emotionally in the Patriots as I have previously and then it slowly grows until I'm hanging on every god damn play. It's awesome and terrible at the same time. I'm also disappointed because this year the Patriots are playing the NFC east and that means a game with the Giants (and Eagles) so this lockout puts that in jeopardy. Plus, if there isn't a 2011 season does that mean that 2012 is going to pick up here with the AFC East vs NFC East or just move on to the next year's scheduled rotation which would be the NFC West (bleh....) Can't wait for the tease that will be the draft, especially if there isn't a season lol. | ||
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Biggo
Australia185 Posts
On February 15 2011 02:35 Gryffindor_us wrote: Ugh, I start frothing at the mouth as it is just to see preseason games which are terrible. And, considering the Pats loss to the Jets last season it compounds my angst even more. I mean, the bitterness of this loss is so intense I've already been contemplating how wonderful it would be to sweep the Jets this year. At this rate with the lockout it's looking even less likely. It's funny because every year I declare I won't invest myself as emotionally in the Patriots as I have previously and then it slowly grows until I'm hanging on every god damn play. It's awesome and terrible at the same time. I'm also disappointed because this year the Patriots are playing the NFC east and that means a game with the Giants (and Eagles) so this lockout puts that in jeopardy. Plus, if there isn't a 2011 season does that mean that 2012 is going to pick up here with the AFC East vs NFC East or just move on to the next year's scheduled rotation which would be the NFC West (bleh....) Can't wait for the tease that will be the draft, especially if there isn't a season lol. I'm very interested to see how the Patriots approach the draft. You have like 6-7 picks in the first four rounds, but if the season is a lock-out, you are effectively getting some top youngsters who will miss out on up to a year of football and training. Not ideal at all. The draft as a whole should be interesting and I don't expect there will be much trading as I won't expect many teams to want to move up unless they are in love with a player. Of course, this is all assuming there is a lock-out. | ||
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FQD1911
83 Posts
1) honestly? don't know yet. my first instincts say no, but you never know. the pressure is on the owners because if they don't play this right, they'll look like the ultimate villains toward fans, further making the players look like martyrs. look, you can say the "these athletes make millions a year" argument, but those are only the superstars. what about the practice squad players that make diddly-squat to be virtual football dummies? the players who were cut, have nothing to fall back on, and have to pay out of the ass in medical bills to play a sport they love but didn't love them back? we're all entertained by the NFL, but player safety should be the #1 priority of these talks (and Goddell can suck a fat one for that 18-game season bull). owners are in the driver's seat (and have a LOT to lose on this), but we'll see... 2) very stacked draft at a lot of positions. lot of DL, OL, WR secondary...kinda of weak at RB and QB outside of Newton & Mallett since Luck didn't go (not sold on that Mizzou QB). sorry Quessa, Carolina's getting Fairley (especially now that Rivera's coaching), but i don't know what the "character issues" are. i'm an SEC fan (Univ. of Arkansas alum), so i saw plenty of Auburn ball. Fairley's more of an annoyance than he is Albert Haynesworth...he'll be fine in the league as a Bears fan, want to see OL drafted, maybe Urlacher's replacement if it's out there, a CB, and a WR at a good spot (if FA doesn't start on time). time for Angelo to prove he's not a complete clusterfuck at the GM position. 3) No, and here's why: Bears had a shit OL w/ diminutive WRs and were division champs, Detroit's getting better (Suh is a MONSTER and if Stafford can stay healthy for an entire game, they'll be a tough ball club to beat, and Minny's a QB away from being NFL relevant again). NFC North will be the hardest division in football bar none...don't think GB can get through that gauntlet. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
I just hope the 49ers don't pick Gabbert or Newton. | ||
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FQD1911
83 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On February 17 2011 00:52 FQD1911 wrote: Dallas needs a QB, but Jerry is an idiot and doesn't recognize it. they won't win with Romo being the starting signal-caller... Maybe so? I felt like Dallas' record is more a fault of their coaching (mainly Wade Phillips) than their QBing (Romo and Kitna). I mean if Jason Garret can make Jon Kitna look like a winning QB, imagine what he can do with Romo at the helm... | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On February 16 2011 05:37 nemY wrote: I'm curious to see where Gabbert will land. While this year seems to be lacking in talent at QB (since Luck decided not to go out) it should be interesting to see where he'll fall. While I think the top 3 are fairly decided at QB (or at least to not drafting a QB), teams 4-10 (minus Dallas at 9) certainly have a need/desire for QB. I just hope the 49ers don't pick Gabbert or Newton. I don't understand why people are hyping Gabbert up so much. I see many mock drafts having him as the #1 QB and that I don't understand when 1) he did nothing at the collegiate level and 2) he wasn't even accurate. I don't even really care much for Cam Newton but I would take his talent and arm over Gabbert anyday. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
For instance, he got flak for that loss to the Ravens a while ago. Are you serious? He marches down the field with clock winding down. Touchdown! How clutch! Then the Ravens get an 80 yard TD run. How clutch! So Romo says fuck that, marches down the field again. Touchdown! So clutch! Then the Ravens get another 70 yard TD run. So clutch! But it's clearly Romo's fault, because he couldn't get a third touchdown drive in 6 minutes. That's retarded. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
1. Carolina (2-14) (needs QB, but is probably going BPA which is not a QB) 2. Denver (4-12) (drafted QB in first round last year, not going to give up on him yet) 3. Buffalo (4-12) (seems content? With Ryan Fitzpatrick, will probably not draft QB) 4. Cincinnati (4-12) (Carson Palmer wants out, they probably need a QB) 5. Arizona (5-11) (Who was their starting QB last year? NEEDS QB) 6. Cleveland (5-11) (I'm not sure they're ready to give up on Colt McCoy yet, but they sort of need a QB) 7. San Francisco (6-10) (Needs QB) 8. Tennessee (6-10) (Needs QB) 9. Dallas (6-10) (sup guys) 10. Washington (6-10) (Needs QB) Given the dearth of quality talent at the QB position, plus the fact that at least 5 teams need a QB before Dallas, I don't see QB being a big need for the Cowboys. I don't remember a whole a lot about Dallas last year (I was happy they were losing), but wasn't their defense pretty bad last year? I could see the Cowboys drafting a corner, especially if Prince Amukamara falls that far. Since it's before the combine, everything's really speculative... | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On February 17 2011 02:27 setzer wrote: I don't understand why people are hyping Gabbert up so much. I see many mock drafts having him as the #1 QB and that I don't understand when 1) he did nothing at the collegiate level and 2) he wasn't even accurate. I don't even really care much for Cam Newton but I would take his talent and arm over Gabbert anyday. I don't get it either. Like I said I hope the 49ers DON'T draft Gabbert or Newton (or any other QB) in the first round this year. Nobody really looks to be worth it, but that said with so many teams NEEDING a QB, I can see QBs like Gabbert/Newton/Mallet/Locker/whoever-else-you-want-to-name being reaches and picked up earlier than maybe they should be drafted. Again it's all speculative though, after the combine we'll get a better idea who where players might fall. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
The articles always paint it as a battle of multimillionaires vs the owners of one of the largest, most profitable business in the history of the world. Yet most players only have short careers and don't make millions every year while the estimated $9 billion in revenues of all 32 combined is behind 200 companies from the US alone. | ||
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RogueStatus
266 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
Understand that the money that they are aruging over is a lot of money, but a lot of money to a bunch of guys who already have a ton...give me a break. It's like fighting over the last piece of chicken when you have another bucket in the fridge. I'm sure none of these guys are so desperately poor that they can't afford to live a quality life. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On February 17 2011 02:47 nemY wrote: I don't get it either. Like I said I hope the 49ers DON'T draft Gabbert or Newton (or any other QB) in the first round this year. Nobody really looks to be worth it, but that said with so many teams NEEDING a QB, I can see QBs like Gabbert/Newton/Mallet/Locker/whoever-else-you-want-to-name being reaches and picked up earlier than maybe they should be drafted. Again it's all speculative though, after the combine we'll get a better idea who where players might fall. oh god please, i dont follow college ball a ton but stay the fuck away from cam newton. he's just big and fast and that looks that much better because he plays in a simple offense that capitalizes on those skills. he's not a bad thrower, but fuuuuuck locker's the only one i cared for but him early would be nutty | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
http://blog.mises.org/15353/behind-the-lockout-part-i/ http://blog.mises.org/15562/behind-the-lockout-part-ii/ tl;dr version: "The owners overspent on unnecessary stadiums, and now they want the players to work more for less pay to help pay down the debt." "The NFL produces three things: stadium debt, intellectual property, and bureaucracy. None of these things should be confused with 'free market' values. The league is a prime example of what happens when you mix politically influential egos with easy credit and a media environment that largely promotes economic ignorance. You have the perfect boom business." | ||
GTR
51373 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
A little background: 2 years ago, around the time when they decided to opt out of the current collective bargaining agreement. the NFL owners negotiated/forced a deal with the TV broadcast networks where the networks would pay the NFL less money, but would pay the owners even if there is no football played because of a work stoppage. This deal would have given the owners ~$4 billion this year. Some of the owners were counting on this money to help them pay off expensive mortgages on their stadiums. The Players' Association sued because in the old Collective Bargaining Agreement there was a term which says the NFL will agree to bargain in good faith for the interests of both the owners AND the players. A deal like this helps the owners at the players' expense. As a result of this ruling, the judge is likely to issue an injunction to keep the owners from getting that money. This is important to the fans because now the owners have a bigger motivation to ensure that games are played next season so they continue to make money. Basically, it forces the owners to take the collective bargaining agreement negotiations a lot more seriously and makes it less likely the work stoppage will be quite so drawn out. | ||
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Tegin
United States840 Posts
As far as the draft is concerned, Dallas should be looking at OL, kicker, and secondary. QB would be the absolute last position I'd be concerned about. If you disagree, you must not have been through the years with Quincy Carter, Chad Hensen and Drew Bledsoe. | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On February 15 2011 09:58 FQD1911 wrote:Carolina's getting Fairley (especially now that Rivera's coaching), but i don't know what the "character issues" are. i'm an SEC fan (Univ. of Arkansas alum), so i saw plenty of Auburn ball. Fairley's more of an annoyance than he is Albert Haynesworth...he'll be fine in the league I linked the primary examples that earned him his national rep (especially among the non-Auburn SEC teams), and that video didn't even have the facemask dig. Haynesworth was a 3 year starter at Tennessee, Fairley's a juco transfer with one season as a starter. Fairley has every sign of being one of the 'always the biggest growing up' types, and his lack of motor was on display at the combine, much to my delight. Obviously, the kid is a beast, so the Panthers may still take him, but it's not the slam dunk it was two months ago. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2011/03/08/running_back_tiki_barber_plans_to_return_to_nfl/ + Show Spoiler + EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J.—After four years in retirement, former New York Giants running back Tiki Barber is looking to get back into the NFL It won't be with the Giants, though. The Giants acknowledged on Tuesday that the 35-year-old Barber has asked to be taken off the reserve-retirement list and that they will release him once the league allows it. Teams cannot make roster moves during the current extension of the CBA talks. Barber is the Giants' career rushing leader with 10,449 yards, 22nd best in league history. SI.com first reported that Barber filed paperwork with the NFL to end his retirement. "We wish Tiki nothing but the best, and when we are able to make the transaction, we will release him from our reserve-retired list," the Giants said. Barber retired after the 2006 season, the year before the Giants' stunning Super Bowl win over the previously undefeated New England Patriots. He had two years left on his contract when he left the game for a job in television, so the Giants still hold his rights. Barber his second career with NBC fizzled and he did not help himself with New York metropolitan area fans, criticizing coach Tom Coughlin and former teammate Eli Manning, saying the quarterback lacked some leadership skills. Barber was booed by fans this past season when Giants unveiled their ring of honor in their new $1.6 billion stadium. In its report, SI.com said Barber reportedly left his wife of 11 years, Ginny, for 23-year-old Traci Johnson, a former NBC intern. Ginny was eight months pregnant at the time. Soon after, NBC cited its morals clause and terminated Barber's contract, which reportedly paid him more than $300,000 per year. In June 2010, the New York Post reported Barber was broke and couldn't pay his divorce settlement with his ex-wife. TLDR: Tiki Barber is a broke asshole who wants to needs to desperately make some $$$. That's why he's coming back. I loved him when he was a running back (who can't love a guy named "Tiki"?), but from the sounds of it, he's really fucked himself up ALOT since retiring from the NFL. Thought it sucked for him that the Giants won the Super Bowl the year after he retired, but given his current actions, I don't care for him anymore. I wonder if his body can hold up for an entire season... most likely he'll be a backup/3rd down back somewhere (not with the Giants though they've already released him). | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
At the same time, what team would take him? He's 35 years old and obviously has lost a lot of his former speed and toughness. I think he might stick around in some practice squads but not have much hope in the league itself. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81eb8f86/Agree-to-disagree?module=HP_cp2 zzzz push and pull lockout  | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Aus.Force
Australia1278 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
NFL to be more aggressive with suspensions for illegal hits next season. Rules defining defenseless players expanded to eight categories: • QB in act of throwing • Receiver trying to catch pass • Runner in grasp with forward progress stopped • Player fielding punt or kickoff • Kicker or punter during kick • QB after change of possession • Receiver who receives blind-side block • Player already on ground • Competition committee will propose moving kickoff to 35-yard line, and bringing touchback out to 25. No changes for touchbacks on any other plays, with ball coming out to 20. • No player other than kicker would be allowed to line up more than 5 yards behind ball. • Outlawing wedge on kickoffs; all blocking wedges were reduced to two players in 2009. • Committee will propose making all scoring plays reviewable. Replay official would order replays on any touchdowns, field goals, safeties and extra points without the coaches needing to challenge. Similar to current system for final two minutes of each half and overtime. • Eliminating third coach's challenge if he is successful on first two. There will be no "Calvin Johnson rule" proposal on what is a catch. Those new rules on what constitutes a defenseless player seem like a lot of BS to me. I mean, you already get a penalty for most of those things. Why a suspension? And no changes for the Megatron rule Also those kickoff rules are questionable. They're gonna have like half of the kickoffs be touchbacks, and since you'll get the ball at the 25, it'll just make it easier for offenses : / | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
Also, I hate the kickoff changes, but that might just be because it will destroy the strongest asset my Bears have, their special teams. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
It may also cause a lot less fumbles too, like those times where a QB gets hit and drops the ball, resulting in a review to see if his arm moved forward or not. Also, since you can't hit a QB after a change of possession, it just means that theoretically the QB can go tackle the ball carrier unguarded after picks and stuff. -_- | ||
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Craton
United States17235 Posts
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
I feel like the touchback needs to be consistent. Either keep it at the 20 or move it to the 25 for everything. Not liking the 5 yards behind the ball rule. Don't RBs typically line up 7 yards behind the ball on running plays? (in college this is typically the case; I don't know if it is in the pros) Making them line up closer would give them less speed when they hit the line of scrimmage, furthering the trend toward a more pass-oriented offense. I'm no old school run guy, but if teams are going to go toward more passing, I'd prefer it to be because QBs are getting better or schemes are trending that way, not the rules making it harder to run. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
BTW, how far does the QB usually stand from the line in a shotgun formation? | ||
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hegeo
Germany194 Posts
2) Every year, we hear like 20k experts talking about mock drafts for months and see every tape of every movement in every speed possible mixed with opinions from the players coaches, family, friends etc. And in the end they still draft JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, VY etc. I seriously think that the whole pre-draft procedure seems a little error-prone (I mean, chances seem to be less than 50 % that you are right about someones ability to play in the NFL, even with extensive scouting). So we will see if this years class is good or not in 5 years. I couldnt judge it now. 3) No. Being a bears fan myself, no. No. | ||
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Phelix
1931 Posts
On March 23 2011 12:17 Ferrose wrote: At least I hope. I mean, it would really mess things up if the punter had to line up 5 yards from the line lol. BTW, how far does the QB usually stand from the line in a shotgun formation? QBs usually stand 5-7 yards back from the Center. In regards to the kickoff change, I guess the league decided that they don't want as many injuries from tacking/via wedges, and by moving the lines, there will be more touchbacks. Of course, this hurts teams where their returning is an asset, like the Bears. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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FQD1911
83 Posts
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
As for the Rams and every other team in the NFC West, it's either we'll be an okay division at best or the one holding the crown is in danger of having a losing record potentially worse than 7-9. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35105 Posts
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
HILARIOUS. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On April 22 2011 02:45 Southlight wrote: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Jon-Gruden-s-QB-Camp-makes-people-uncomfortabl?urn=nfl-wp1021 HILARIOUS. Dude, I watched the one that he did with Jake Locker, and it was INCREDIBLY awkward. You could feel it through the TV. I wonder what Gruden is like off camera lol. Also, I find it hilarious that Mallet's stock is dropping at an insane rate. The latest scandal is leaving a pro day at Carolina because he was "sick." lolol | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=214870 post reasons for your votes as well =] | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
Line at the end really knocks it out of the park. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
Judge ends lockout; owners to appeal http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6424084 Given this result, I don't think we will miss a game next season (regular or preseason). | ||
Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On April 28 2011 11:11 nemY wrote: Waaahh draft is tomorrow, niners pls don't draft Lame Gabbert. Peterson pretty pretty pls. No way will Peterson be there at #7. He's widely regarded as the best talent in the draft. I just can't see him slipping that far, no matter how QB or DL needy the top 5 teams are. | ||
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Quake48
United States68 Posts
On April 28 2011 11:23 Qatol wrote: No way will Peterson be there at #7. He's widely regarded as the best talent in the draft. I just can't see him slipping that far, no matter how QB or DL needy the top 5 teams are. Even though he is the best he will be there. Team needs outweigh best available player. A new Patrick is coming to town! | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
my mock 2.0 1. carolina - cam newton (obvious choice, carolina never has had a 'face' for the franchise, i think newton will be it) 2. denver - marcell dareus (need new dt's for fox's defense. von miller is also another possibility as the defensive line class is pretty deep this year (could possibly get someone like muhammad wilkerson in the second)). 3. bills - von miller (too hard to pass up on such a talent. could also possibly go with peterson, but i think gailey likes miller). 4. bengals - aj green (chad and terrell gone, this one is a no brainer). 5. cardinals - patrick peterson (definitely won't go past them here, most talented player imo in the draft, dual threat in defense and special teams) 6. cleveland - julio jones (mocked quinn here before, but as said above, the d-line class is deep, can't pass up on such a good receiver, shurmur is offensive-minded and jones seems to fit their offense to go help mccoy). 7. 49ers - blaine gabbert (despite smith possibly coming back, i think gabbert will be harbaugh's franchise qb. he's no andrew luck but he will do fine.). 8. titans - nick fairley (while the titans need a qb, it would be a huge reach to go for someone like locker or malett at this spot. they will most likely trade up in the late first to get their guy, whoever it is. fairley is the most logical choice here). 9. cowboys - tyron smith (apparently the cowboys don't like amukamara, but it could be a smokescreen. i might as well mock tyron smith here, the best o-line in the draft, enormous amount of potential). 10. washington - robert quinn (with jones gone, quinn is the best player on the board). | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
WHY it's like mcdaniels 2.0 with elway. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 28 2011 14:01 GTR wrote: peterson won't go past arizona at 5. my mock 2.0 1. carolina - cam newton (obvious choice, carolina never has had a 'face' for the franchise, i think newton will be it) 2. denver - marcell dareus (need new dt's for fox's defense. von miller is also another possibility as the defensive line class is pretty deep this year (could possibly get someone like muhammad wilkerson in the second)). 3. bills - von miller (too hard to pass up on such a talent. could also possibly go with peterson, but i think gailey likes miller). 4. bengals - aj green (chad and terrell gone, this one is a no brainer). 5. cardinals - patrick peterson (definitely won't go past them here, most talented player imo in the draft, dual threat in defense and special teams) 6. cleveland - julio jones (mocked quinn here before, but as said above, the d-line class is deep, can't pass up on such a good receiver, shurmur is offensive-minded and jones seems to fit their offense to go help mccoy). 7. 49ers - blaine gabbert (despite smith possibly coming back, i think gabbert will be harbaugh's franchise qb. he's no andrew luck but he will do fine.). 8. titans - nick fairley (while the titans need a qb, it would be a huge reach to go for someone like locker or malett at this spot. they will most likely trade up in the late first to get their guy, whoever it is. fairley is the most logical choice here). 9. cowboys - tyron smith (apparently the cowboys don't like amukamara, but it could be a smokescreen. i might as well mock tyron smith here, the best o-line in the draft, enormous amount of potential). 10. washington - robert quinn (with jones gone, quinn is the best player on the board). If everyone keeps their picks I could see this. However, A) I dont see Gabbart making it past #5 and B) There will be some trades in the top 10 picks this year. There is 0% chance teams pick in this order in the top 10. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
On April 29 2011 02:15 sixfour wrote: top 5 will be as gtr posted except swap miller/dareus. then idk, i can see the skins trading up to take gabbert Southlight 1:16 pm so odds are the skins will trade up to pick gabbert or something like that Friend1:16 pm NO NONONO Southlight 1:16 pm and next year or rather over the next month month(s) we'll see many articles praising shanhan for his gutsiness and praising gabbert's abilities then the redskins go like 6-10 and next year we will see many articles lambasting the redskins' inability to keep draft picks bemoaning the many holes and the lack of picks throughout the years shafting the team's development every year you can be sure of many things the seasons, and the redskins and the sportswriters for the washington post | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
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justle
United States174 Posts
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On April 28 2011 14:01 GTR wrote: peterson won't go past arizona at 5. my mock 2.0 1. carolina - cam newton (obvious choice, carolina never has had a 'face' for the franchise, i think newton will be it) 2. denver - marcell dareus (need new dt's for fox's defense. von miller is also another possibility as the defensive line class is pretty deep this year (could possibly get someone like muhammad wilkerson in the second)). 3. bills - von miller (too hard to pass up on such a talent. could also possibly go with peterson, but i think gailey likes miller). 4. bengals - aj green (chad and terrell gone, this one is a no brainer). 5. cardinals - patrick peterson (definitely won't go past them here, most talented player imo in the draft, dual threat in defense and special teams) 6. cleveland - julio jones (mocked quinn here before, but as said above, the d-line class is deep, can't pass up on such a good receiver, shurmur is offensive-minded and jones seems to fit their offense to go help mccoy). 7. 49ers - blaine gabbert (despite smith possibly coming back, i think gabbert will be harbaugh's franchise qb. he's no andrew luck but he will do fine.). 8. titans - nick fairley (while the titans need a qb, it would be a huge reach to go for someone like locker or malett at this spot. they will most likely trade up in the late first to get their guy, whoever it is. fairley is the most logical choice here). 9. cowboys - tyron smith (apparently the cowboys don't like amukamara, but it could be a smokescreen. i might as well mock tyron smith here, the best o-line in the draft, enormous amount of potential). 10. washington - robert quinn (with jones gone, quinn is the best player on the board). Julio Jones at 6 is way too high. He's a good player and well worth a 1st round pick but top 10? There is a significant difference between Jones and players like AJ Green and Calvin Johnson. He's just not as fast - despite his great 40 at the combine. I would not burn the 6th pick overall, unless I'm quite certain he turns into Larry Fitzgerald. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
To build a team, you build from the inside then out. Not to mention you need a top level QB to win a superbowl nowadays. There are some exceptions (Trent Dilfer) but no one has a defense as stacked as that Ravens team was. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:02 Ferrose wrote: Is Eli Manning a top level QB? :x he's certainly above the league average, borderline top 10. he's obv not brady/peyton/brees/rodgers/rivers level etc but he's not dilfer/brad johnson either. i'd certainly rather have him as my qb than campbell, as would half the league | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:10 sixfour wrote: he's certainly above the league average, borderline top 10. he's obv not brady/peyton/brees/rodgers/rivers level etc but he's not dilfer/brad johnson either. i'd certainly rather have him as my qb than campbell, as would half the league I'd say that he's pretty mediocre with very inconsistent results at times. He's got a good team around him which helps out a lot, but sometimes he just plays very poorly. But, he is the NFL's highest paid player :o|. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:02 Ferrose wrote: Is Eli Manning a top level QB? :x I said there were some exceptions. Super Bowl Winning QBs over the past 15 years (not repeating names for multiple wins): Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees Ben Roethlisberger Eli Manning Peyton Manning Tom Brady Brad Johnson Trent Dilfer Kurt Warner John Elway Brett Favre Troy Aikman Steve Young Only a couple of those are not top QBs. Trent Dilfer as stated had one of the all time great defenses. Eli had one of the best D-lines of all time and a reciever make one of the most clutch catches in a super bowl ever. The only other one you *could* argue is Johnson, however, that was his prime (and one of the better qbs at that time) and once again he was supported by an amazing defense. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:13 TranceStorm wrote: I'd say that he's pretty mediocre with very inconsistent results at times. He's got a good team around him which helps out a lot, but sometimes he just plays very poorly. But, he is the NFL's highest paid player :o|. Yeah I think it's more accurate that he is extremely streaky. He can play incredibly well at times (like the playoffs of the 2007-2008 season), but his passer rating was only 0.8 better than Campbell last season. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:13 TranceStorm wrote: I'd say that he's pretty mediocre with very inconsistent results at times. He's got a good team around him which helps out a lot, but sometimes he just plays very poorly. But, he is the NFL's highest paid player :o|. he's had six straight 3k+ yard seasons with over 20td's, most people would be rather happy with that. threw a lot of picks last season, but i think that's an outlier and he's shown solid progression over the last few seasons. obv it helps that he has had a solid o-line and good running game, never really had an elite receiving unit either (plax was nice, smith is nice but is really a possession receiver, nicks looks legit now but he's also had to work with the corpse of amani toomer, recently manningham as hixon is on the shelf) | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On April 28 2011 11:11 nemY wrote: Waaahh draft is tomorrow, niners pls don't draft Lame Gabbert. Peterson pretty pretty pls. You'll be in love with him whenever they start playing again. This team needs a goddamn qb for once to make up for the talent that is everywhere else. THINK OF FRANK GORE!!!!! Peterson also won't make it that far. I'm not sure Gabbart will either necessarily. I'm banking on Carolina taking Newton and basically hoping that the Bills and Bengals pass. Eh, Arizona too. But at least those teams have many other holes to fill in addition to QB. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:48 darmousseh wrote: I played baseball and went to church with Colin Kapernick. I'm really hoping he gets picked up by SF 9ers. aside from the raiders trading up rumours, seahawks are supposedly in love with him as well | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On April 29 2011 07:22 yrba1 wrote: Peyton Hillis made it to the Madden cover, meh I wanted Rodgers to be on the cover so he can fall victim to the curse. Gus Johnson theorises that the Madden curse and Cleveland's general curseness will counteract each other and Hillis will run for 2k next year | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 07:40 sixfour wrote: Gus Johnson theorises that the Madden curse and Cleveland's general curseness will counteract each other and Hillis will run for 2k next year I predict that either A) He will rush for 2k yards and be a probowler again next year or B) the curses become additive and he is jsut screwed for the rest of his career. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
When he was a rookie he had the worst case of happy feet in the pocket i ever seen from a NFL QB. I really thought he was going to be a bust because he kept throwing off his back foot falling away from the rush. He got over that and looks really comfortable in the pocket now. Eli is also strange in that he throws the deep ball better then he throws short stuff. He will drop the ball over a WR shoulder 50 yards down the field, but bounce the ball in the dirt at a RBs feet when he standing wide open 5 yards in front of him. There are a few other things you have to account for when talking about Eli. First off he plays in the the Meadowlands. Giants stadium is notoriously hard on passing and kicking games alike. In all the years both the Giants and the Jets played there. Eli the first QB to throw over 30 TDs in a season. Its damn hard to score threw the air in NY. The other thing is his WR drop a freaking load of passes on him. At least 8 drops were turned into INTs this year. Bottom line is Eli puts points up, and he is a top 10 QB. He just makes you pull your hair out sometimes. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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Pure.Calm
United Kingdom196 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
starts in 20 minutes. | ||
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Pure.Calm
United Kingdom196 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
Though I'd rather have Newton than Fairley. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
newton to panthers big surprise | ||
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Swissm
United States207 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:05 sung_moon wrote: warm welcoming for the commish newton to panthers big surprise big surprise my ass. newton has been the unanimous #1 pick in 99% of mock drafts. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:09 GTR wrote: Pretty sure that was sarcasmbig surprise my ass. newton has been the unanimous #1 pick in 99% of mock drafts. | ||
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:19 InToTheWannaB wrote: the bills are nuts if they take Marcell Dareus. For the love of god get a QB and give your fans a reason to sit in the snow and watch your shitty team play football Right as you say it Marcell Dareus goes to the Bills ROFL | ||
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SpAnKiN.v13
Canada7 Posts
On April 29 2011 07:22 yrba1 wrote: Peyton Hillis made it to the Madden cover, meh I wanted Rodgers to be on the cover so he can fall victim to the curse. lol...They should put vick on it Curious to see what the patriots do... | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:20 SpAnKiN.v13 wrote: lol...They should put vick on it Curious to see what the patriots do... eff dat. no need for vick to be cursed twice | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:19 InToTheWannaB wrote: the bills are nuts if they take Marcell Dareus. For the love of god get a QB and give your fans a reason to sit in the snow and watch your shitty team play football They're not nuts. Ryan Fitzpatrick is improving and is decent. The team can still improve under him. In this draft they needed to pick the best possible player, which was Dareus, since they have way too many areas to improve on. They can still make strides this year with Fitzpatrick. Patience is key. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:27 TranceStorm wrote: Hmm. What are Cincinnati going to do with their QB situation considering that Carson Palmer has vowed not to play for them anymore? get a veteran like bulger, or trade up in the late first to pick up a ponder or dalton. | ||
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SpAnKiN.v13
Canada7 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:27 Souma wrote: They're not nuts. Ryan Fitzpatrick is improving and is decent. The team can still improve under him. In this draft they needed to pick the best possible player, which was Dareus, since they have way too many areas to improve on. They can still make strides this year with Fitzpatrick. Patience is key. Bills were 32 in rush defense and 3 in pass defense...i think this pick will help them alot..us crazy canadians will fill ralph wilson statidum don't you worry. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
now THAT is a surprise wow. 27 -> 6, for 1st, 2nd and 3rd/4th this year, and 1st next year. they really want jones. | ||
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DMXD
United States4064 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:27 Souma wrote: I agree that Dareus is a beast. Fantastic player, but no one shows up to a football game to watch defensive line play. The bills needs some juice, or they going to be the football version of the dodgers taking a long trip to LA. Your kidding youself if you think Fitzpatrick is ever going to be anything other then a backup QB. He should be holding a clip board not starting in the NFL.They're not nuts. Ryan Fitzpatrick is improving and is decent. The team can still improve under him. In this draft they needed to pick the best possible player, which was Dareus, since they have way too many areas to improve on. They can still make strides this year with Fitzpatrick. Patience is key. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Edit: Fitzpatrick doesn't have to be insanely good. The Bills are NOT going to the Super Bowl any time soon. They're not even going to the playoffs any time soon with that division. They can afford to not get a QB in the first round this season. They have to improve in ALL areas, which means they pick the best possible players they can. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:33 GTR wrote: WOW Atlanta trading up. now THAT is a surprise wow. 27 -> 6, for 1st, 2nd and 3rd/4th this year, and 1st next year. they really want jones. O_o jesus christ | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:33 GTR wrote: WOW Atlanta trading up. now THAT is a surprise wow. 27 -> 6, for 1st, 2nd and 3rd/4th this year, and 1st next year. they really want jones. They want him badly... | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:34 InToTheWannaB wrote: I agree that Dareus is a beast. Fantastic player, but no one shows up to a football game to watch defensive line play. The bills needs some juice, or they going to be the football version of the dodgers taking a long trip to LA. Your kidding youself if you think Fitzpatrick is ever going to be anything other then a backup QB. He should be holding a clip board not starting in the NFL. while fitzpatrick isn't going to take the team to the playoffs, as souma said, the bills need time. drafting dareus outweighs getting gabbert, and if they flop, they can always get andrew luck next year =] | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
Edit: They gave up their 1st, 2nd, and 4th this year, and their 1st and 4th for next year. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Fgr5w.jpg) holmgren/shurmur will be extremely happy. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
wow, we might see gabbert drop down a-la clausen. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:40 Souma wrote: oman Browns. I'm excited to see what will happen to them in two years now. Yeah that's a great trade for the Browns. They don't need one or two superstars, they need a nucleus of solid young players. They're already on their way there too. Also, Gabbert falling a bit 0.o I like Jake Locker better than him anyways though. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
Wow. Locker at 8.. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:42 GTR wrote: first legitimate surprise. aldon smith to the 49ers, a bit of a reach? wow, we might see gabbert drop down a-la clausen. Hard to see him go down like Clausen, Vikings could take him :DD Hopefully | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
Edit: I agree GTR, they should've tried to get something out of it. At worst they get Gabbert instead. Maybe they tried but found no takers? | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:44 Hawk wrote: continue the lockout and spare me from seeing alex smith in a niner jersey. For fucks sake, what a reach Chill Bro. Gabbert's weaksauce. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
lol then i can only wonder what u think of alex smith.... | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:47 TemplarCo. wrote: So all of us watching NFL Network?? Yup, via nfl.com. Paying for TV is for noobs. I kind've wish the fans would stop booing Goodell though. It's getting old. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:50 Golgotha wrote: lol then i can only wonder what u think of alex smith.... WIN | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:50 thedirtyleg wrote: Yup. Paying for TV is for noobs. I kind've wish the fans would stop booing Goodell though. It's getting old. Yeah, year after year all the same... | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:50 Golgotha wrote: lol then i can only wonder what u think of alex smith.... he just chose to mirror steve young's career path instead of joe cool, no biggie | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:52 Serpico wrote: I'm biased as a UW student but....congrats Jake, you're a great player and human being. wtf i go to UW seattle as well. i wanted Jake....titans really surprised me. | ||
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ICA
498 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
edit: lol i'm dumb nevermind | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:54 ICA wrote: I have seen Jake play and do not believe in him. Horrible decision making at times. He just isn't the real deal, neither is Gabbert imo. no quarterback this year is the level of say, bradford or ryan. what i would have done was just draft on need, and blow the season to get luck next year. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:54 GTR wrote: no quarterback this year is the level of say, bradford or ryan. what i would have done was just draft on need, and blow the season to get luck next year. I'd agree, every QB that is a first round talent is 50/50 for the most part. I wouldnt want to start any of them on day 1 if my job depended on it. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:54 GTR wrote: no quarterback this year is the level of say, bradford or ryan. what i would have done was just draft on need, and blow the season to get luck next year. i agree with this who are some of the good non-1st QBs? | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:57 Hawk wrote: i agree with this who are some of the good non-1st QBs? colin kapernick from nevada, andy dalton from tcu (imo this guy has huge potential), christian ponder from fsu. second round grade, but don't be surprised if any of them go late first. | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
qwa??????? | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:03 thedirtyleg wrote: Minnesota is not pleased about that I would guess. T-T I Neither am I... | ||
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ICA
498 Posts
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ICA
498 Posts
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
We could of got a great DE at 27, and a good WR in the 2nd (titus young).. instead we mortgaged our future for a WR who cant even catch. sigh. this is why they will never get back to the superbowl. Horrible coaches and stupid decisions when things are starting to look good. Its painful, getting SO close to a superbowl then fucking it up. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:07 TheMusiC wrote: what are the issues with mallet other than his attitude that pushed him out of the 1st round? i remember reading about him a couple months ago and people were pretty big on him. looked decent in his bowl game as well. Poor play in big games. And replace attitude with drunk and disorderly and rumors about substance abuse. Sure, 3 D-linemen in 5 years is bad, but a 4th QB in 2 years is a bold move. Sigh. | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
The Texans really need secondary help though. They were shrrreedded last year. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
locker-level reach. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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TemplarCo.
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:17 GTR wrote: CHRISTIAN PONDER locker-level reach. Well the difference is Locker was projected as a #1 pick at one point, ponder was a late first rounder at best. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:18 GTR wrote: i'm okay with these qb's being taken. just not at these picks. titans + vikings could have easily traded 2nd+3rd's to someone like new england and have still gotten them, as well as filling a need somewhere else with the current picks they have. Oh ya, I agree taking locker and ponder at 15-25 would be perfect as you'd probably have a QB in front of him at that range to sit for 2 years. That would be ideal for them, but teams seem scared about NOT drafting a QB period. I dont agree with reaching for them at this point either. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:18 GTR wrote: i'm okay with these qb's being taken. just not at these picks. titans + vikings could have easily traded 2nd+3rd's to someone like new england and have still gotten them, as well as filling a need somewhere else with the current picks they have. I agree, Vikes could've got him in 2nd round, and rather gotten Amukamara or Fairley *sniff* *sniff* | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
can't believe they went for another lineman over amukamara. sure it's an insane as fuck d-line... but the secondary yo. | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:22 GTR wrote: ugh. lions are done for another season. can't believe they went for another lineman over amukamara. sure it's an insane as fuck d-line... but the secondary yo. Agreed, Fairley is very good...but not a CB. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:22 GTR wrote: ugh. lions are done for another season. can't believe they went for another lineman over amukamara. sure it's an insane as fuck d-line... but the secondary yo. DL makes the secondary better. This is gonna be intense. Lions are my 2nd fav team, nice to see them doing better than the dumbass Falcons right now with that retarded trade =/ | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:22 GTR wrote: ugh. lions are done for another season. can't believe they went for another lineman over amukamara. sure it's an insane as fuck d-line... but the secondary yo. You should work in NFL Network, | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
Christian Ponder at number 12. Really? | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Just thinking about it makes me laugh my ass off. LOOOOOOOOOOOL. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:26 Quesa wrote: I donno, maybe they're thinking there's nothing to fear in Chicago and Minnesota and the best way to beat Rodgers is to physically murder him. Lions want to stop Adrian Peterson and Matt Forte, and you said it "the best way to beat Rodgers is to physically murder him" | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:20 Brees wrote: real troll draft so far, all of these QBs are shit but there is a ton of defensive gems this year. The good teams gonna get better and the shit teams gonna stay shit, whats new so true. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:29 thedirtyleg wrote: omg did anyone else see that woman's saggy armfat? yeah I was like :O | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
(I like to call Mallett Mullet. And I'm just joking, mostly..) | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
damn right she's taking a cellphone pic of herself. nobody's gonna take a pic of her chubbs. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
This was the Titans success when Swartz was their DC and they went 13-3. I can definitely see the Lions as a wildcard team if Stafford is able to remain uninjured. | ||
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xjoehammerx
United States191 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:32 Quesa wrote: My Panthers are going to trade up and take Mullet, I just know it. (I like to call Mallett Mullet. And I'm just joking, mostly..) LOL. They already chose Newton. Are you really fan? | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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Disciple7
United States198 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:38 xjoehammerx wrote:LOL. They already chose Newton. Are you really fan? Yes, they chose Newton, the 4th QB they've drafted in the last 2 years; hence the joke that they'll trade up for a 5th. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
Me: "LOL MALLET" Goodell: "...Kerrigan." Me: "DAMMIT" | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:44 Ferrose wrote: Goodell: "The Redskins select Ryan..." Me: "LOL MALLET" Goodell: "...Kerrigan." Me: "DAMMIT" LOL I did the same thing hahaha! | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:56 Souma wrote: Cowboys, interesting pick. That wasn't an interesting pick. That was an obvious pick. They need to start bringing along another OT and this kid will be great in a year or two. On April 29 2011 10:45 InToTheWannaB wrote: guess shanahan feels good going into the season with rexs grossman at QB. Whata joke lol. OOOOORRRRR..... he can trade with Philly and see if Kolb turns out better than McNabb. lololol. I smell another 6-10 year for the Redskins. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Pure.Calm
United Kingdom196 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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socommaster123
United States578 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:52 Pure.Calm wrote: Little surprised castonzo didnt go before solder there I have heard a few times that some people think he has hit his peak. So while he is versatile, there wouldn't much room for growth. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:53 socommaster123 wrote: People need to quote this but Ponder is the next Aaron Rodgers and is the best qb in this draft. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:03 TranceStorm wrote: How on earth did he drop so low? Vikes are stupid... | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:01 TemplarCo. wrote: T-T Amukamara to giants... Great pick by the Giants. Sigh. Why cant they pick more like Washington? | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:58 nemY wrote: Seriously? I think Ponder's weak! His arm strength is terrible! He did play hurt all year though, but even his Senior Bowl showing was weak imo. I don't know if I agree that Ponder will be the next Rogers, but he is similar in the sense that a lot of people were concerned that Rogers' arm strength wasn't there either. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On April 29 2011 10:51 nemY wrote: I think Shanahan's been on Charlie Sheen. LOL quoted for hilarity. I have no idea what the Redskins are planning to do with Rex as the QB... | ||
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
Love the crowd chanting "We want Prince! We want Prince! We want Prince! We want Prince!" | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:17 Ferrose wrote: Browns trade with the Chiefs? Interesting... Cameron Jordan/Da'Quan Bowers A while ago before everyone panicked about the knee, Bowers could have gone at 6 to the Browns. They could be getting their guy at 21. | ||
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CAPSLOCKED
563 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:08 Durp wrote: LOL quoted for hilarity. I have no idea what the Redskins are planning to do with Rex as the QB... Go 2-14 and get Andrew Luck next year? None of the QBs this year are anything to write home about. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:18 GTR wrote: Cameron Jordan/Da'Quan Bowers A while ago before everyone panicked about the knee, Bowers could have gone at 6 to the Browns. They could be getting their guy at 21. Phil Taylor D: | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:22 GTR wrote: Hmm, I don't like how they traded up for him. I really do think that he would have fell into their lap. Agreed. But maybe they got nervous after Washington pissed their dream pick of Pouncey. Edit - Colts take OL here. Its Castanzo 100%. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
The NFL is fucking stupid. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:25 GTR wrote: I still don't understand why the Browns traded up for Taylor. He's a 3-4 DT. Isn't Cleveland a 4-3 team? Why didn't they get Bowers. The NFL is fucking stupid. Browns are a 3-4 team. Edit- And nailed the Colts pick. Good pick for them. Edit edit - Eagles with a solid but unsexy pick. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
carimi would have been the better choice. sigh. | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + NO Ingram  | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:50 SuitGuy wrote: I dont like carimi. I think carimi is a better value in the middle of the 2nd round. would you have picked james carpenter over carimi/sherrod if you were seattle? anyway, i'm semi-glad ravens will be (most likely) taking jimmy smith. they have a great locker room atmosphere that will fix any 'character' issues he still has. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
Edit - Does Bowers fall out of the first round? | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
I dont think its really a reflection of Ingram skill, as much as it is that teams don't want to take RBs in the first round anymore. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:00 InToTheWannaB wrote: wtf the reavens missed there pick lol apparently they traded but they havent recorded it oh wow they actually passed....... fail. okay i have no idea what the fuck is going on | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
EDIT: nvm just general confusion | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
No one at ESPN seems to know wtf the Ravens were thinking or why they passed. The Cheifs pretty much ran their pick to the table. | ||
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:03 BloodNinja wrote: There it is. Baldwin to the Chiefs and the Ravens get Smith. No one at ESPN seems to know wtf the Ravens were thinking or why they passed. The Cheifs pretty much ran their pick to the table. i think what the nfl did was trade the chiefs and ravens picks, so now the chiefs get the 26th (baldwin) and the ravens 27th (smith). thats my guess at least | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:05 GTR wrote: i think what the nfl did was trade the chiefs and ravens picks, so now the chiefs get the 26th (baldwin) and the ravens 27th (smith). thats my guess at least I am not 100% on the procedure, but my understanding from what i read is the Ravens were trying to trade back. Nothing came thru, so they passed and let the Chiefs pick in front of them. The Chiefs not wanting anything funny to happen saw they were on the clock and ran their pick in. that put the Ravens back on the spot and they sent their pick in. Why they did this in the end... no one knows. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:05 Qatol wrote: YES! Not Carimi! Come on! Just a little further down and the Bears can grab him! Nooo Carimi can't go to the Bears! That would hurt my soul. Ooh NO trading up to snag Ingram! | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
Edit - NE stock piling picks. 2011 2nd rounder and 2012 1st rounder. | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:09 BloodNinja wrote: The saints need a premier back. Good pick to them. Edit - NE stock piling picks. 2011 2nd rounder and 2012 1st rounder. which is why the patriots make the playoffs every year. thanks to other teams making dumb decisions, you can possibly pick up a bowers or heyward, first round talent, in the second. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:09 thedirtyleg wrote: Nooo Carimi can't go to the Bears! That would hurt my soul. Ooh NO trading up to snag Ingram! I'm pretty sure they tried to trade in front of the Chiefs to get him (espn mentioned the trade with the ravens was from Chicago) but it blew up in their faces. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:12 InToTheWannaB wrote: ya thats a great pick up for the saints. Assuming they did not give up much to move up. On April 29 2011 12:09 BloodNinja wrote: NE stock piling picks. 2011 2nd rounder and 2012 1st rounder from NO. | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:14 Quesa wrote: If any of y'all remember, back in the Mike Tice era the Vikings didn't bother turning in a pick at around 9th or so and about three teams got their picks in first, probably my favoritest draft memory ever. The Panthers got Jordan Gross in that sequence. That was an epic moment. I remember the commentators absolutely losing it. They had no idea what was going on. "Is it... did they... trade? .. No? Well.. um.. I guess they passed?" Edit: NNoooooo!!!! Gabe whyyyyy.. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:19 thedirtyleg wrote: That was an epic moment. I remember the commentators absolutely losing it. They had no idea what was going on. "Is it... did they... trade? .. No? Well.. um.. I guess they passed?" Yes, I remember that. They picked Kevin Williams eventually. Edit - Carimi to the Bears. Expected and smart move. | ||
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:22 SuitGuy wrote: bleh. mediocre value imo for the bears.muhammed wilkerson or Bowers a better pick in the spot. and the jets take wilkerson, no brainer there. | ||
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:22 SuitGuy wrote: bleh. mediocre value imo for the bears.muhammed wilkerson or Bowers a better pick in the spot. Dude, have you seen the Bears O-line? Yeah, no one has. They don't even show up on half the plays. | ||
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:26 Ferrose wrote: Dude, have you seen the Bears O-line? Yeah, no one has. They don't even show up on half the plays. Not saying they don't need help. But I'm not really sure he is good value for that pick #. Every team has needs but if you dont have the player rated high enough for the spot you are picking in you either trade out of it or pick someone else. To me Carimi isn't good value for the #29 pick. (hell, parcells had him with a 3rd round grade) | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:26 Ferrose wrote: Dude, have you seen the Bears O-line? Yeah, no one has. They don't even show up on half the plays. Exactly. This lets them plug in Carimi at RT and move Webb to LT. Williams and Omiyale fight it out at LG unless we get a FA. I hope they grab a G/C prospect to replace Kreutz later in the draft, but this was definitely a needed pick. | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:32 thedirtyleg wrote: The Packers are trying rrreeally hard to get out of this pick right now. Someone get Al Davis on the phone! Edit - Sherrod to GB to end the day. | ||
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
Everyone is silent, except one guy: "YEEEEEEEAHHHHHH" | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:37 SuitGuy wrote: Bowers not in the first round is so weird to me. He's really a good good player. o_O Prevailing theory is that the knee injury is a bit more serious than being reported. Teams are unwilling to put 1st round money on it as a result. Expect to see him gone QUICKLY tomorrow. | ||
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:38 Ferrose wrote: LOL. "The Packers take Derek Sherrod" Everyone is silent, except one guy: "YEEEEEEEAHHHHHH" hahaha! yeah that's how it goes. It's a good pick though. Sherrod should have a year or two to improve before he's promoted to first string as long as Clifton's knees hold up. I like this pick by Green Bay. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Rkie
United States1278 Posts
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Gonff
United States686 Posts
Ten minutes ago Reggie Bush tweeted: "It's been fun New Orleans." | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:56 thedirtyleg wrote: Whoa. Drama? Ten minutes ago Reggie Bush tweeted: "It's been fun New Orleans." They drafted his replacement in Mark Ingram. Reggie going back to 2nd on the depth chart in a year or less. Bush still believes he is a #1 RB and probably wants out. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:56 thedirtyleg wrote: Whoa. Drama? Ten minutes ago Reggie Bush tweeted: "It's been fun New Orleans." http://twitter.com/reggie_bush/status/63811091796471808 heh classic reggie bush | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:39 Slaughter wrote: I reallllly want to see the season next year just to see what Detroits D line can do. Several QBs might end up dead next season. The thing is though (I've actually only seen like 3 of Fairley's games), Fairley seems like he gets a lot of stupid penalties. Extremely talented but draws dumb penalties. Seems like he was made for the Lions. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
This kid better be the second coming of mario williams, except he's smaller. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:43 Ferrose wrote: The thing is though (I've actually only seen like 3 of Fairley's games), Fairley seems like he gets a lot of stupid penalties. Extremely talented but draws dumb penalties. Seems like he was made for the Lions. dead quarterbacks are worth a few yards worth of penalties :p. although honestly they should have went went a CB aka. prince (which i must add prince amukamara is an awesome name) | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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NearlyDead
United States72 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:58 GTR wrote: I think Nnamdi will be going to the Eagles. Just a rough guess though. Lions are also a possible destination. Mayhew's philosophy is BPA in the draft, and then address glaring needs in FA. I reallllly want to see the season next year just to see what Detroits D line can do. Several QBs might end up dead next season. Fairley is a good addition as he will be able to play DE on rushing downs and can move inside for passing situations. The Lions like to show unusual fronts, many times last year they had Suh rushing the edge out of a two point stance with KVB or Lawrence Jackson down inside and they will be able to do a lot more of that now. Avril (8.5 sacks) Lawrence Jackson (6 sacks) KVB (4 sacks) Turk McBride (5 sacks) Suh (10 sacks) plus Corey Willams and Sammie Lee Hill anchoring as very good run stopping DT's will create quite the rotation up front. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
As a Falcons fan, I did NOT see this coming. Still, can't say I'm too bothered about it since our other starting WR, Michael Jenkins, is the only WR in NFL history to start 3+ seasons and have ZERO 100 yard games. Seemed like an awful lot to give up though. Dimitroff must be very confident we're going to be picking in the high twenties or thirties every year. On April 29 2011 10:08 Skyze wrote: as a Falcons fan.. very dissapointed. We could of got a great DE at 27, and a good WR in the 2nd (titus young).. instead we mortgaged our future for a WR who cant even catch. sigh. this is why they will never get back to the superbowl. Horrible coaches and stupid decisions when things are starting to look good. Its painful, getting SO close to a superbowl then fucking it up. What coach is horrible? Mike Smith's been doing an astounding job. Him and Thomas Dimitroff have been the REASON things are starting to look good. Get out of here with this overreaction bullshit. What DE could we have taken at 27? Heyward or Bowers? I don't see Heyward being an instant impact and probably won't overtake Biermann/Sidbury any time soon, and there's obviously something very off about Bowers's health for him to fall from potential #1 overall pick to not even a first rounder. It looks like we gave up a lot, but so long as we go into the playoffs each year it's giving up a very late first rounder, a very late second rounder, and a pair of fourths to move up 21 spots. Yes I would have liked to see an elite DE, but there really aren't any in this year's draft even were we to trade up. With the amount of talent we have on offense (Ryan/White/Gonzalez/Turner) it's clear that something was wrong with the passing game last year. It was decent but nowhere near the level it should have been on. Hopefully Julio Jones solves that. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
This isn't even including the 1st and 4th in next years draft. Unless Julio Jones is a young, cost-controlled Larry Fitzgerald, or at least significantly better than AJ Green, I can't see this going great for Atlanta. | ||
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:48 sung_moon wrote: dead quarterbacks are worth a few yards worth of penalties :p. although honestly they should have went went a CB aka. prince (which i must add prince amukamara is an awesome name) Damn bush is being a crybaby. Get a 1k rush season first than talk about how the Saints did you dirty. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:44 Zlasher wrote: My niners are retarded. This kid better be the second coming of mario williams, except he's smaller. I know nothing to make of the decision since I really don't know who the guy is. Seems like we drafted manny lawson's replacement, hopefully he'll be better (which is hard not to do). | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On April 29 2011 14:37 slyboogie wrote: The Julio Jones move was terrible. I understand a "win now" mentality, but is a rookie wide receiver really a "win now" type of player? The trade seemed to display a distinct lack of understanding of value. Julio Jones is good, GREAT even...but how many receptions/yards/touchdowns/wins is he worth over John Baldwin+pick 59+pick 124? This isn't even including the 1st and 4th in next years draft. Unless Julio Jones is a young, cost-controlled Larry Fitzgerald, or at least significantly better than AJ Green, I can't see this going great for Atlanta. Yeah the Falcons really, really wanted AJ Green but Cinnci apparently backed out at the last second. They didn't give up as much as it appears so long as they continue getting into the playoffs. Two picks in the late 20s and one at the bottom of the second round don't seem that bad for a #6. That said, if the Falcons somehow flop out of the playoffs this year then they're absolutely boned by this trade. I think they figured that their major needs were DE and WR, and there was no DE comparable to Julio Jones in the draft. Biermann has shown flashes of brilliance but we haven't really seen anything out of Sidbury yet. Still, an elite prospect WR helps capitalize on the short window the Falcons have before Gonzalez and Abraham retire moreso than two very late first rounders and a very late second rounder. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3804 Posts
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seansye
United States1722 Posts
Any Raiders fans know who we should draft in the second round? From last season, I thought our biggest weakness was Wide Receiver, but I really hate Jason Campell. We're prob. ganna get a CB to replace Nnamdi. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On April 29 2011 14:16 Curu wrote: WHAT JULIO JONES? As a Falcons fan, I did NOT see this coming. Still, can't say I'm too bothered about it since our other starting WR, Michael Jenkins, is the only WR in NFL history to start 3+ seasons and have ZERO 100 yard games. Seemed like an awful lot to give up though. Dimitroff must be very confident we're going to be picking in the high twenties or thirties every year. What coach is horrible? Mike Smith's been doing an astounding job. Him and Thomas Dimitroff have been the REASON things are starting to look good. Get out of here with this overreaction bullshit. What DE could we have taken at 27? Heyward or Bowers? I don't see Heyward being an instant impact and probably won't overtake Biermann/Sidbury any time soon, and there's obviously something very off about Bowers's health for him to fall from potential #1 overall pick to not even a first rounder. It looks like we gave up a lot, but so long as we go into the playoffs each year it's giving up a very late first rounder, a very late second rounder, and a pair of fourths to move up 21 spots. Yes I would have liked to see an elite DE, but there really aren't any in this year's draft even were we to trade up. With the amount of talent we have on offense (Ryan/White/Gonzalez/Turner) it's clear that something was wrong with the passing game last year. It was decent but nowhere near the level it should have been on. Hopefully Julio Jones solves that. Umm.. do you watch falcons games? They have the worst playcalling coordinators in the league. Great talent, hell superbowl winning talent, but cant call plays at all. Mularkey and Brian Van Gorder, until they are fired, Falcons wont make it past the first round of the playoffs This sport is ALL about coaching, it doesnt matter if you have the best player in the league, you wont win without the best coach. Its not like the NBA where Lebron can take the Cavs to the NBA finals. Theres a reason its always the Patriots, Steelers and Colts at the end of the season, despite the team changing so drastically (patriots are best example).. Coaching = the actual coaches.. Mike Smith may give the press conferences and oversee the operation but he doesnt call the plays, because a Smith led Jaguar D is 100x better than a BVG led Falcons D. Mike Smith is just the 2008 example of Jim Mora Jr, a decent head coach who will be fired in afew years because he didnt have the balls to fire his horrible coordinators because they are friends (Remember Knapp and Donatell? ugh.) The Defense is what needs work on this team (outside of firing Mularkey so they open up the "explosive" plays.. Julio cant change the playcalls, therefor his "explosiveness" is useless).. so a top DE is needed. Better to stay at 27 or move in the 10-20s to pick a top DE, any of them is better than what they gave up for a position that isnt even really needed.. Meier is gonna be a beast, and Jenkins is a solid #2 if you actually watch the games and see what he does. Bears would of beat the Falcons in 2008 without Jenkins, and tons of other bigtime plays Jenkins makes. HD is still doing solid too, keep in mind he came off major surgery thats why he was slow to catch up but he was doing good near the end of the season, despite Mularkey calling horrible routes for the whole WR corps. the WR's were good enough, its the Defense that gave up 40 to the Packers and made the Falcons lose in the playoffs. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 29 2011 16:11 SEANSYE wrote: Wow, I use to get into the draft a lot, but my Raiders weren't picking in the first round this year, especially the top 10 so i had no clue who the best players were. Any Raiders fans know who we should draft in the second round? From last season, I thought our biggest weakness was Wide Receiver, but I really hate Jason Campell. We're prob. ganna get a CB to replace Nnamdi. some CB's around; - brandon harris - aaron williams - ras-i dowling - davon house i don't know what was the worser move of the night, titans/vikings reaching so badly for locker/ponder, or atlanta blowing 6 picks on jones. if it was aj green, it would have been acceptable, but jones isn't. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
- don't trade with the pats - after the success of ivory as a UFA that taking rb's early is really fucking stupid i can only guess that bush AND thomas are both completely done also lol falcons, lol bungles, lol panthers, lol vikings, lol titans, lol ravens, lol 49ers, i'm sure i'm missing someone out here | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
On April 29 2011 20:31 sixfour wrote: if i was a saints fan i'd be mad right now, trading up to take ingram AND losing next years first round pick? you would think they would learn: - don't trade with the pats - after the success of ivory as a UFA that taking rb's early is really fucking stupid i can only guess that bush AND thomas are both completely done also lol falcons, lol bungles, lol panthers, lol vikings, lol titans, lol ravens, lol 49ers, i'm sure i'm missing someone out here Someone should have sent that memo to the Vikings. The Moss-trade, oh God. Could have been great but it ended up being just tragic. 1 pick wasted. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 14:55 SuitGuy wrote: Yea, I really like the move by cleveland. I think it was awesome. Though constantly moving down can fail (though some think it never does). Letting someone trade you a mess of draft picks for one player has worked out great for the team receiving a mess of picks in recent history. For reference please see: Cowboys, Dalls - Let Minnisota trade them a mess of picks (6) for Herschel Walker. Dallas used those picks to get Emmitt Smith, Russell Maryland, Kevin Smith, and Darren Woodson of note. Redskins, Washington: Mike Ditka traded his 1999 draft picks (and his 2000 1st rounder) to get Ricky Williams. The Redskins used those picks to get Champ Bailey, Jon Jansen and LaVar Arrington amoung others. So I think Cleveland is in a great spot right now with their mess of picks from Atlanta. On April 29 2011 20:31 sixfour wrote: if i was a saints fan i'd be mad right now, trading up to take ingram AND losing next years first round pick? you would think they would learn: Jordan was steal at his spot and Ingram will be a great back in the NFL. After having to use a roation of like 90000 RBs the past seasons this will give them some stability. I think Bush is gone but some of the other backs have a great shot at being part of a 2 back system. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 29 2011 22:49 sixfour wrote: Jordan was a steal, yes. Ingram I don't like for reasons stated above, Bucs have easily had the best draft in that division I think the Buccs are gonna dominate the NFC south within 3-5 years with the way the Falcons and Saints are kind of weakening their future drafts, but since it's going to all be about Saints vs Falcons in the NFC South for the next couple of years they're trying to get impact players right now. This Saints team is gonna go as long as Drew Brees can carry it and that's not gonna be much more than 5 years anyhow, might as well go for a superbowl run with these drafts and see if you can get lucky and build a dynasty! But yeah, the Buccs are gonna be amazing in the future. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
Bowers Ryan Williams | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14892 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On April 29 2011 15:28 nemY wrote: I know nothing to make of the decision since I really don't know who the guy is. Seems like we drafted manny lawson's replacement, hopefully he'll be better (which is hard not to do). yeah this was the goal in drafting Smith Do very few college teams run a true 3-4 or something?? I don't understand why we draft so many DEs and try turning them into OLBs | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
Yes, they gave up an arm and a leg to get Jones, but this reminds me of another time a young stud receiver came onto a talented set up offense. Randy Moss joined Cris Carter, Robert Smith, and Randall Cunningham. James Jones is joining Roddy White, Michael Turner, Matt Ryan and Tony Gonzalez. I think this will be considered one of the better trades for years to come, as Jones has huge upside and will not be game planned against heavily in this offense | ||
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Souljah
United States423 Posts
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
On April 29 2011 23:38 Durp wrote: I love the Atlanta trade. Yes, they gave up an arm and a leg to get Jones, but this reminds me of another time a young stud receiver came onto a talented set up offense. Randy Moss joined Cris Carter, Robert Smith, and Randall Cunningham. Julio Jones is joining Roddy White, Michael Turner, Matt Ryan and Tony Gonzalez. I think this will be considered one of the better trades for years to come, as Jones has huge upside and will not be game planned against heavily in this offense | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Ingram I think will be a very good pro. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 29 2011 23:27 Hawk wrote: yeah this was the goal in drafting Smith Do very few college teams run a true 3-4 or something?? I don't understand why we draft so many DEs and try turning them into OLBs Not many programs run a 3-4 in college to my knowledge. I am sure it is due to a number of reasons. If I were to guess, I think it may stem from the size (with speed) differences between the NFL and college. I think this difference is really seen in the size of the offensive lines who remain jsut as quick if not quicker than their college counterparts. Comapre the Dallas Cowboys to Virginia Tech / LSU. Average Lineman Dallas Cowboys - 6'6" / 320 lbs vs Virginia Tech - 6'2" (6'3" maybe) / 290 lbs LSU - 6'4" / 300 lbs So in college you can get away with a 250/260 lb pass rushing DE. Put that same DE in the NFL and he gets mauled (with a few exceptions). Not to mention they often become a large liability in the run game (See Jason Taylor for the Redskins). So they are converted to OLBs where they can still use their speed on outside pass rushing on pass downs without becomeing the liability on rushing downs. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
ari: A, peterson close to bpa there, fills big need atl: C-, really really really hate giving up way too much to take a WR bal: B, lol timing out, smith solid though buf: A, dareus bpa, didn't pull trigger on rookie qb which can be filled next round if they want car: D, lol newton chi: A, carimi is a steal and should hopefully stop cutlahhhhh being continually sacked cin: B, green is a can't miss player but can't help but feel that atl would have offered them a similar package to what they offered cleveland, if so, lol bungles cle: A+++++, lol falcons, don't much like trading back up to take taylor though, seems a waste dal: B+, took exactly who they should have but trading out would have been much better den: A-, not sure how miller really works with their system, from a value perspective it's fine det: A-, fairley/suh combination is going to be absurd, but quinn or amukamara would have been my pick gb: A-, sherrod solid but standard pick hou: B, could surely trade out of there for watt who i don't think was the best player at that position left ind: B+, can't argue with taking a solid OT in the first jax: B-, gabbert there is fine, but i don't get it when they still have garrard and a lot of other needs, gave up too much in the trade iyam kc: B, needed a WR, got one, nice work on the trade as well mia: B+, pouncey should supplement what's becoming one of the better o-lines in the league min: D-, LOL PONDER ne: A-, think they could have traded down and still got solder but i won't question belichick, nice rape job on the saints nyg: A, amukamara dropping to them is ridiculous and a perfect pick nyj: B, wilkerson fine, probably deserves higher but jets can't get above a B for drafting on general principle no: C+, jordan a super super steal but then spoil things by letting the pats rape you to trade up for a running back oak: A+++, al davis doesn't do anything stupid phi: B-, taking guard doesn't excite me pit: B-, don't understand why they passed on sherrod sd: B-, odd pick and going de/cb would have been a lot better sea: C, carpenter wat sf: C+, trade down ffs, smith isn't worth the seventh pick stl: B+, quinn is a really good value pickup and will complement long tb: B, don't know much about clayborn but boosting pass rush is good ten: D, LOL LOCKAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH was: B-, would have just taken gabbert, making a good trade and making solid value pick is fine but i don't know how kerrigan and orapko can coexist | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:00 Hawk wrote: Julio Jones is in no way comparable to Moss. The dude has got shit hands for a WR. He had a lot of potential and can pan out into something, but unless he turns into a Fitzgerald type player like someone said, it's a huge, huge, huge overpayment Ingram I think will be a very good pro. Kind of hard to say a receiver has bad hands when he makes Greg Mcelroy look good. He was catching shitty passes his entire college career and still came out as a first round receiver. Also holy crap at people saying NE raped the Saints. The saints have a massive need in both the pass rush and at running back (we had absolutely abysmal stats in the running game last year). With that trade we got an excellent running back and the ability to free up our budget by being able to get rid of Reggie Bush, which is a huge deal going into free agency. I know we traded a first rounder, but with this team it's gonna be a really late, playoff team first rounder, so we at most got fleeced for a 2nd rounder for "value" but we shored up a huge issue in our organization. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: Also holy crap at people saying NE raped the Saints. The saints have a massive need in both the pass rush and at running back (we had absolutely abysmal stats in the running game last year). what stats? if it's in terms of yards, that's a function of brees throwing it more than anyone not called peyton. if it's in terms of ypc, 4.0 is fine. sure, you could use an extra back, but pick one up later in the draft, ingram is wasted on your team. you only run it about 25 times a game anyway, give ivory ~15 of them, fill out the remainder of them with pierre thomas if he's back fit (which he wasn't all last season hence his lol 3.2 ypc) or random free agent/fourth or later round pick. works fine and you can still cut bush. | ||
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:54 GTR wrote: while there is a significant drop-off after green/jones, baldwin seems to have the most upside out of the rest of the pack (personally i would have taken randall cobb or titus young). Thanks. I had just never heard of him. Really was thinking more an OL to protect Cassel cause they fell apart end of the year as far as protection goes. As well as in the first round of the playoffs. I would think that Baldwin could have fallen to them in the second round. Just feels like MAYBE a slight reach? | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
Going to the ATL will give him a great WR corps in Roddy/Jenkins and the guys to get him over the concentration/catching humps.. Remember Roddy was a hotshot coming out of college, not working hard and constantly having issues catching the ball and concentrating, then Joe Horn came and showed him how to work like a pro, now Roddy is arguably top 3 in the NFL. He will show Julio how to work like a pro and hopefully make Julio's weaknesses diminished somewhat. If anyone can teach him, as someone who looks exactly like him out of college, its Roddy. Instantly best WR corps in the league; if they carry 6 its gonna be Roddy, Julio, Jenkins, HD, Meier and Weems (PR/KR) .. Thats pretty good. Rest of the O is set also, with Michael Palmer being the replacement for Tony Gonzalez. just gotta get a D player today.. It would almost make it worth it if they somehow got back in the 2nd today to take Bowers as long as they dont give up any 2012 picks earlier than 5. -- Onto the NFC South, I think we can all agree that Brees runs the Saints.. so they had to make these moves knowing that their life only goes as far as Brees' career, once he retires in 2-3 years its back to the cellar for them. Ingram is overrated though, im happy they picked him. Tampa screwed themselves with Talib, not to mention they got fluky last year anyways. Carolina is a joke, Clausen was a wasted pick last year, now Cam will be the next Jemarcus Russel. Falcons should remain at the top even with horrible playcalling, and hopefully next year they will fire BVG and Mularkey and actually get some decent coaches to win a superbowl, on a purely talent base, Falcons are easily the best in the NFC, just gotta get some good coaching. | ||
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Gann1
United States1575 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:37 SuitGuy wrote: Bowers not in the first round is so weird to me. He's really a good good player. o_O he also has no cartilage in his knee... no surprise that no one wanted to take a chance on him with a first round pick. he'll go early in the second round, probably top 5. Also, as a Ravens fan, i'm really really glad that KC didn't decide to be dicks and pick Jimmy Smith, so the trade screw-up didn't really hurt anything except our pride. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:39 sixfour wrote: what stats? if it's in terms of yards, that's a function of brees throwing it more than anyone not called peyton. if it's in terms of ypc, 4.0 is fine. sure, you could use an extra back, but pick one up later in the draft, ingram is wasted on your team. you only run it about 25 times a game anyway, give ivory ~15 of them, fill out the remainder of them with pierre thomas if he's back fit (which he wasn't all last season hence his lol 3.2 ypc) or random free agent/fourth or later round pick. works fine and you can still cut bush. Saints are only a 54% passing team when we have more than 1 running back -- in our superbowl winning year we passed 544 to 468 rushing, because our running backs were going strong. We were pass heavy as a difficulty of having a depleted running back corps. We did well on YPC because everyone dropped into coverage against our crippled running attack (28th in the league, our absolutely weakest area, even worse than our awful run defense) and whenever we did use the 1 non-injured back to run, it did alright, but 28th is still 28th. You say give Ivory more runs but we went into the playoffs without him because we ran him too much, the same for Pierre Thomas. Ivory is also AWFUL at running between tackles -- he is the epitome of a short yardage, take the hit RB and we need a more variable back than that, which Ingram is -- he's basically a younger, much more talented Pierre Thomas and Pierre Thomas has been an absolute savior for the Saints. The saints are an amazing passing team, an amazing pass defending team, but we're weak on both sides of the ball when it comes to the run. We need a couple of good linebackers (which there are no good ones in this draft for us to use these picks on) and good running backs to shore up that awful stat -- Drew Brees threw more interceptions this year than he ever has and it's because he had no running attack to spread defenses and he took way too many hits by keeping the ball himself. As great as he is he isn't Peyton Manning when it comes to using his pass to protect himself from hits, he needs the running game he had in the 09 season to be a Superbowl winning QB. I think we got exactly what we needed out of this draft so far. We may regret it next year when the Patriots use our, what, 26th+ draft pick to get a future hall of famer, but I'm willing to take that risk. I think both sides came out happy, and frankly, I'm no worried about the patriots getting insanely strong because, similar to the saints, that team lives and dies by its amazing QB and head coach. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:58 Gann1 wrote: Also, as a Ravens fan, i'm really really glad that KC didn't decide to be dicks and pick Jimmy Smith, so the trade screw-up didn't really hurt anything except our pride. Maybe we should have. You did house us in the playoffs on our home field. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:02 BloodNinja wrote: Lets not overrate their offense either. For as vaunted as their passing attack was two years ago. It only amassed 3103 yards last year (29th in the NFL) with 6.8 ypa (21st in the NFL). I'm guessing you mean running attack here because the Saints had the #3 passing team and the highest completion percentage with that 7.0ypa. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:08 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm guessing you mean running attack here because the Saints had the #3 passing team and the highest completion percentage with that 7.0ypa. I swear it said the opposite and I was pretty sure I was on ESPN. However, I went back and it all looks different. Maybe I got a different year by accident. I deleted the post. Point still being though, I agree the Saints needed a RB and they got one. Brees cannot carry the team on his back a la Peyton Manning. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:14 BloodNinja wrote: I swear it said the opposite and I was pretty sure I was on ESPN. However, I went back and it all looks different. Maybe I got a different year by accident. I deleted the post. Point still being though, I agree the Saints needed a RB and they got one. Brees cannot carry the team on his back a la Peyton Manning. He can, but he'll get injured because when he forces throws he takes longer and always gets hit -- Peyton's the best player in the game at pulling Roughing the passer and DPI calls. Otherwise, just this past season they were basically in the exact same situation -- an ailing o-line, no running game, and injuries in their receiving corps. Peyton put up his better TD/Int ratio and massive yardage, which is his signature, while Brees put together a better completion percentage and better third down conversion passing, which is his signature. Both had an inordinate amount of interceptions. Brees was in a harder division but got to play the NFC West so I guess their schedules are comparable (Lol, Peyton Manning vs Texans Pass D). Also, a secondary thing to this is some of the intangible value. There are a lot of Saints fans who are also Alabama fans, and us taking the first Alabama heisman winner is a sort of intangible benefit to a lot of fans. I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to this but it is true, and maybe that's why I'm trying a little hard to justify the Saints drafting Ingram. I wouldn't call this a C draft though, if Cameron Jordan performs and Ingram has the same or better production to Pierre Thomas then it'll be a homerun. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6445044 | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I guess settling for Julio isn't all that bad either. The guy plays physical, but has damn issues catching the ball. World class talent, iffy hands, and even though he ran a blistering 40 at the combine, he plays pretty slow on the field. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On April 29 2011 18:01 Skyze wrote: Umm.. do you watch falcons games? They have the worst playcalling coordinators in the league. Great talent, hell superbowl winning talent, but cant call plays at all. Mularkey and Brian Van Gorder, until they are fired, Falcons wont make it past the first round of the playoffs This sport is ALL about coaching, it doesnt matter if you have the best player in the league, you wont win without the best coach. Its not like the NBA where Lebron can take the Cavs to the NBA finals. Theres a reason its always the Patriots, Steelers and Colts at the end of the season, despite the team changing so drastically (patriots are best example).. Coaching = the actual coaches.. Mike Smith may give the press conferences and oversee the operation but he doesnt call the plays, because a Smith led Jaguar D is 100x better than a BVG led Falcons D. Mike Smith is just the 2008 example of Jim Mora Jr, a decent head coach who will be fired in afew years because he didnt have the balls to fire his horrible coordinators because they are friends (Remember Knapp and Donatell? ugh.) The Defense is what needs work on this team (outside of firing Mularkey so they open up the "explosive" plays.. Julio cant change the playcalls, therefor his "explosiveness" is useless).. so a top DE is needed. Better to stay at 27 or move in the 10-20s to pick a top DE, any of them is better than what they gave up for a position that isnt even really needed.. Meier is gonna be a beast, and Jenkins is a solid #2 if you actually watch the games and see what he does. Bears would of beat the Falcons in 2008 without Jenkins, and tons of other bigtime plays Jenkins makes. HD is still doing solid too, keep in mind he came off major surgery thats why he was slow to catch up but he was doing good near the end of the season, despite Mularkey calling horrible routes for the whole WR corps. the WR's were good enough, its the Defense that gave up 40 to the Packers and made the Falcons lose in the playoffs. Mularkey was "Mr. Gadget" with the Steelers, with tricky playcalls and bombs all over the field. I know the Falcons offense seemed so anemic (run, run, throw a 10 yard square out) but we don't know if that's a function of him being stupid or the limited personnel; yes the Falcons have an All Star cast on offense but 1. Matt Ryan doesn't have the strongest arm, 2. Michael Turner cannot catch for the life of him, 3. Tony Gonzalez is in the twilight of his career, and 4. Michael Jenkins is NOT an explosive WR. Watching Mularkey made me want to pull my hair out at times too but I doubt all the blame can be put on him. Saying Meier is gonna be a beast is just blind homerism. Ok then, Bierrman and Sidbury are gonna be beasts too, we don't need to draft DEs. Except Bierrman has actually shown something, so it's less ridiculous to project him as the answer. Jenkins makes ONE clutch play a game, and that's his entire contribution. Maybe without him and with Julio Jones in 2008 we never get into that situation because we score a ton more points. Yes Jenkins is memorable for his extremely clutch catches and yes he caught Matt Ryan's first pass (and first TD) but the fact is he's an extremely mediocre possession WR. Harry Douglas hasn't shown anything after the initial flashes during his rookie year. Who else could we draft that would help us win now? Gonzalez has a year or two left at most, Falcons need to capitalize on the opportunity now. I have no problem with trading so much for an instant impact that would significantly boost the Falcons' champion chances; whether Julio Jones is that guy is yet to be seen, but I'll trust Dimitroff's track record for now. I threw a fit and was SUPER pissed when Dimitroff picked Matt Ryan. I was convinced he was a bust, Brohm was better, Dorsey was the right pick, etc. I've learned since then that Dimitroff knows what he's doing, so until he proves me wrong (again) I'll trust his judgment over mine. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:43 Roffles wrote: Actually, in hindsight, the Falcons essentially swapped 1sts this year, gave up a late first next year, along with a second and a couple 4ths. Not too shabby, although I would have liked to have seen Peterson or Green come to town, as the Falcons have some pretty glaring needs in the secondary and at DE. I guess settling for Julio isn't all that bad either. The guy plays physical, but has damn issues catching the ball. World class talent, iffy hands, and even though he ran a blistering 40 at the combine, he plays pretty slow on the field. Julio plays slow on the field because of his timings at Alabama. He literally could not run as fast as he could to burn receivers because Mcelroy couldn't make those throws. I think with Matt Ryan throwing to him he could become a real monster downfield. | ||
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:47 TwoToneTerran wrote: Julio plays slow on the field because of his timings at Alabama. He literally couldn't not run as fast as he could to burn receivers because Mcelroy couldn't make those throws. I think with Matt Ryan throwing to him he could become a real monster downfield. Truth, McElroy and JPW aren't the greatest of gunslingers, but neither is Matt Ryan. He's got the arm, but all I've seen him ever do is oversling Roddy on deep routes. But what I do think Julio can do after he establishes him is give Roddy a damn break from all those double teams he's been seeing, and it opens up the offense if he ever pans out to be somewhat decent. No more 8 in the box against Michael Turner, less double teams on Roddy, opening up the field for the Falcons. But at the end of the day, they got wrecked on D, and fail to shore it up. I understand the philosophy of loading up on offense, shootout every game trying to outscore opponents, but add Julio to last year's game vs the Packers. Would he have made up the 20+ point differential or helped the Falcons to have given up less than 48 points? | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:45 Curu wrote: Mularkey was "Mr. Gadget" with the Steelers, with tricky playcalls and bombs all over the field. I know the Falcons offense seemed so anemic (run, run, throw a 10 yard square out) but we don't know if that's a function of him being stupid or the limited personnel; yes the Falcons have an All Star cast on offense but 1. Matt Ryan doesn't have the strongest arm, 2. Michael Turner cannot catch for the life of him, 3. Tony Gonzalez is in the twilight of his career, and 4. Michael Jenkins is NOT an explosive WR. Watching Mularkey made me want to pull my hair out at times too but I doubt all the blame can be put on him. Saying Meier is gonna be a beast is just blind homerism. Ok then, Bierrman and Sidbury are gonna be beasts too, we don't need to draft DEs. Except Bierrman has actually shown something, so it's less ridiculous to project him as the answer. Jenkins makes ONE clutch play a game, and that's his entire contribution. Maybe without him and with Julio Jones in 2008 we never get into that situation because we score a ton more points. Yes Jenkins is memorable for his extremely clutch catches and yes he caught Matt Ryan's first pass (and first TD) but the fact is he's an extremely mediocre possession WR. Harry Douglas hasn't shown anything after the initial flashes during his rookie year. Who else could we draft that would help us win now? Gonzalez has a year or two left at most, Falcons need to capitalize on the opportunity now. I have no problem with trading so much for an instant impact that would significantly boost the Falcons' champion chances; whether Julio Jones is that guy is yet to be seen, but I'll trust Dimitroff's track record for now. the whole "Mr Gadget" thing is a really long time ago. With the falcons hes shown nothing but the most predictable playcalling in the NFL (remember vs the Cardinals in 2008? They knew ALL the plays before the snaps, Patriot-esqe really.. cept not spying, just Mularkey was that bad). Actually, if it wasnt for the Steelers Defense, he wouldnt of gotten past the first playoff game with their offense either. Im not buying the other reasons either, Ryan's arm is strong enough for anything, just no down-field routes are run. When they are run, Roddy and Jenks makes big passes, but we'll see what, 1 or 2 routes past 20 yards per game?? Turner doesnt need to catch much, thats what Snelling is for. Jenkins is a solid #2, and is going to be an insane #3. Meier shown flashes that look like a top 3 WR... but remember hes going to be coming in as a #5 or #6. Thats where the potential is. Bierman/Sidbury are alright, but they aren't Abraham level which is what we need right now. I still question this largely, but I am guessing(praying) TD is planning on picking up the best free agent DE this year. Thats the only logical explaination for selling the future for one player in a position that wasnt really required as much as DE. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green? Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:52 Roffles wrote: But at the end of the day, they got wrecked on D, and fail to shore it up. I understand the philosophy of loading up on offense, shootout every game trying to outscore opponents, but add Julio to last year's game vs the Packers. Would he have made up the 20+ point differential or helped the Falcons to have given up less than 48 points? It's not quite as simple as making 20 points though is it because obviously if you don't have to punt you hold on the ball longer and the opponent has less time to score themselves. Someone in Atlanta rated Julio really highly and they could be right. He certainly has incredible potential. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:52 Roffles wrote: Truth, McElroy and JPW aren't the greatest of gunslingers, but neither is Matt Ryan. He's got the arm, but all I've seen him ever do is oversling Roddy on deep routes. But what I do think Julio can do after he establishes him is give Roddy a damn break from all those double teams he's been seeing, and it opens up the offense if he ever pans out to be somewhat decent. No more 8 in the box against Michael Turner, less double teams on Roddy, opening up the field for the Falcons. But at the end of the day, they got wrecked on D, and fail to shore it up. I understand the philosophy of loading up on offense, shootout every game trying to outscore opponents, but add Julio to last year's game vs the Packers. Would he have made up the 20+ point differential or helped the Falcons to have given up less than 48 points? Yeah, I'm expecting them to try to go deep in the pockets to shore up their defense -- I expect the saints to do the same thing, really. The NFC South is a vicious as hell league, the closest one being the NFC North -- and they're playing each other next year. Gonna be a good football season. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:53 Roffles wrote: Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out. I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level. | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
Kiwanuka or Charles Johnson.. is Tamba Hali still available too? him on the Falcons would help out. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:43 Roffles wrote: Actually, in hindsight, the Falcons essentially swapped 1sts this year, gave up a late first next year, along with a second and a couple 4ths. Not too shabby, although I would have liked to have seen Peterson or Green come to town, as the Falcons have some pretty glaring needs in the secondary and at DE. I guess settling for Julio isn't all that bad either. The guy plays physical, but has damn issues catching the ball. World class talent, iffy hands, and even though he ran a blistering 40 at the combine, he plays pretty slow on the field. The Falcons just blew the bank on Dunta Robinson last year and Brent Grimes was a Pro Bowl CB. Moore and DeCoud were both high picks too. Secondary isn't where they were going to be looking, they've already invested so much into it. DE was/is still a huge need, but I think they just didn't feel like anyone was an elite prospect there. On April 30 2011 01:53 Skyze wrote: the whole "Mr Gadget" thing is a really long time ago. With the falcons hes shown nothing but the most predictable playcalling in the NFL (remember vs the Cardinals in 2008? They knew ALL the plays before the snaps, Patriot-esqe really.. cept not spying, just Mularkey was that bad). Actually, if it wasnt for the Steelers Defense, he wouldnt of gotten past the first playoff game with their offense either. Im not buying the other reasons either, Ryan's arm is strong enough for anything, just no down-field routes are run. When they are run, Roddy and Jenks makes big passes, but we'll see what, 1 or 2 routes past 20 yards per game?? Turner doesnt need to catch much, thats what Snelling is for. Jenkins is a solid #2, and is going to be an insane #3. Meier shown flashes that look like a top 3 WR... but remember hes going to be coming in as a #5 or #6. Thats where the potential is. Bierman/Sidbury are alright, but they aren't Abraham level which is what we need right now. I still question this largely, but I am guessing(praying) TD is planning on picking up the best free agent DE this year. Thats the only logical explaination for selling the future for one player in a position that wasnt really required as much as DE. I hate you for bringing up that game. That will, in my mind, forever be the day when Keith Brooking started turning from beloved hero to super villain. Still you also have to remember that year that the Falcons went from what was it, 4-12 the year before? to the playoffs. The Meier thing is really just homerism. I guarantee you every team in the NFL has some obscure 5th rounder that only that team's fans know, but they think he will be Pro Bowl level. A few years ago for the Falcons it was Laurent Robinson; nowadays no one that isn't a fan of the Falcons or Rams even knows who he is. I won't lie, I hated Mularkey's guts at the end of the season too. I REALLY wanted him to go to the Titans so we could sign McDaniels. After the emotion cooled a bit, I could think about him a bit more rationally, but with Julio Jones added he better showcase a sick sick offense this year. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:00 BloodNinja wrote: I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level. Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance. If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d). | ||
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TeMiL
Peru545 Posts
i couldnt found a thread about it. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:06 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance. If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d). You gotta remember, for every Vernon Davis there's a Vernon Gholston. As Al Davis has shown, drafting on Combine results provides much more failure than success. Vernon Davis is the only player I can think of off the top of my head that was drafted pretty much because of Combine results and actually succeeded; everyone knew Megatron was going to be sick and had he sat out the entire Combine he still would have gone in the first 5 picks. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:06 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance. If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d). Exactly. The anti-combine backlash is really misguided in some ways. The reality is, drafting players is somewhat similar to buying a house. Once you purchase a house, you can paint it, fix it up, maybe even add a second story to it. But there are something that you can not change. You can't change where the house is physically located. You can't change the lot size of the house. You can't, without tremendous effort, change the original dimensions of the house. In the same way, football players need to be have certain elements in their athleticism and their...body, to be successful. Does running a 4.3 forty and repping 30 times mean you'll be a stud? Does showing a 37 inch vert mean that you'll be a Hall of Famer? Of course not! But let's be real. Without the tools, your ceiling is capped and NFL teams are preparing to invest millions of dollars into this labor. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:15 Curu wrote: You gotta remember, for every Vernon Davis there's a Vernon Gholston. As Al Davis has shown, drafting on Combine results provides much more failure than success. Vernon Davis is the only player I can think of off the top of my head that was drafted pretty much because of Combine results and actually succeeded; everyone knew Megatron was going to be sick and had he sat out the entire Combine he still would have gone in the first 5 picks. And I definately fall into this camp. I can recall more failures than successes based off of combine results. @ Slybogie - To use your analogy, Megatron was already a mansion sitting on beachfront property. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:41 BloodNinja wrote: And I definately fall into this camp. I can recall more failures than successes based off of combine results. @ Slybogie - To use your analogy, Megatron was already a mansion sitting on beachfront property. Oh, I'm a huge fan of Calvin Johnson; all this talk about Dez Bryant and AJ Green and Julio Jones - yada yada yada. Megatron is the next great one, I'm not even sure the NFL is ready, the guy is just tremendous. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:59 slyboogie wrote: Oh, I'm a huge fan of Calvin Johnson; all this talk about Dez Bryant and AJ Green and Julio Jones - yada yada yada. Megatron is the next great one, I'm not even sure the NFL is ready, the guy is just tremendous. He certainly has the potential to be an all time great. Especially if he can stay healthy which is seems to be one of the biggest factors to players making it to that plateau. We can only hope he will stay a bit longer in than the last game changing Detriot Lion, if he does make it to that level. | ||
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:53 Roffles wrote: Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out. In truth I don't think that's a good comparison. At the end of the day the team is putting all their hopes and dreams on a QB. Not on a WR. Sure when you draft one in the first round and he ends up sucking it hurts. But of the two positions I think what a WR does at a combine is weighed more heavily than what a QB does at the combine. Also QBs are looked at to be leaders. You don't really see leadership measured at the combine. I think how a WR/RB does at a combine, on certain drills, is far more important than how a QB did at the combine. Plus i mean look who drafted Russell. The Raiders. And Al Davis is a crazy old man who doesn't know when to die. Look at what he pulled this year. Hey Tom Cable you helped the Raiders go 8-8 for the first time in like 8 years and went 6-0 against the division. I'm still gonna fire you tho!! HAHAHA *plays cuckoo sounds* | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On April 30 2011 02:17 slyboogie wrote: Exactly. The anti-combine backlash is really misguided in some ways. The reality is, drafting players is somewhat similar to buying a house. Once you purchase a house, you can paint it, fix it up, maybe even add a second story to it. But there are something that you can not change. You can't change where the house is physically located. You can't change the lot size of the house. You can't, without tremendous effort, change the original dimensions of the house. In the same way, football players need to be have certain elements in their athleticism and their...body, to be successful. Does running a 4.3 forty and repping 30 times mean you'll be a stud? Does showing a 37 inch vert mean that you'll be a Hall of Famer? Of course not! But let's be real. Without the tools, your ceiling is capped and NFL teams are preparing to invest millions of dollars into this labor. I was just gonna post something to this extent. You can't coach fast and most physical things. Also, using anything that Al Davis has done in the last decade as some kind of metric to compare the thinking of NFL warrooms is a bit whacky. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
Also, I can't stop laughing at the Jaguars. I didn't even know what was going on when that pick happened, and I still can not stop laughing. Yeah, Gerrard isn't great but they needed more improvements than that. And GOD DAMNIT STEELERS YOU NEED MORE FREAKING FUCKING CORNERS AND SECONDARIES AND SHIT, NOT MORE DEFENSIVE ENDS I AM MAD. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:19 InToTheWannaB wrote: oooo is carson palmer on his way out of cinnci? He's been saying he'd retire if he doesn't get traded, so yes, I'd imagine so. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:19 InToTheWannaB wrote: oooo is carson palmer on his way out of cinnci? Uhhh. He demanded a trade two months ago. When Cincy said no he said he would rather retire than play for them again. So yeah, Carson Palmer not coming back. On April 30 2011 07:14 Fruscainte wrote: Also, I can't stop laughing at the Jaguars. I didn't even know what was going on when that pick happened, and I still can not stop laughing. Yeah, Gerrard isn't great but they needed more improvements than that. I actually like the Jags pick A LOT. Gerrard will play a few more years while Gabbart sits and learns. Not to mention they didn't sell the farm to get him and picked him at #10 which was a great spot considering most analysts had him top 5. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: He's been saying he'd retire if he doesn't get traded, so yes, I'd imagine so. That what he says, but i highly doubt he really retire. He just bitch and end up playing anyway i suspect. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:23 BloodNinja wrote: Uhhh. He demanded a trade two months ago. When Cincy said no he said he would rather retire than play for them again. So yeah, Carson Palmer not coming back. Here is the quote: "I have $80 million in the bank. I don't have to play football for money. I'll play it for the love of the game but that would have to be elsewhere. I'm prepared to live my life." I actually like the Jags pick A LOT. Gerrard will play a few more years while Gabbart sits and learns. Not to mention they didn't sell the farm to get him and picked him at #10 which was a great spot considering most analysts had him top 5. I understand the reasoning behind it, and I'm glad they aren't getting Gabbert and throwing him to the wolves in his first season and letting him sit back and learn -- much like Aaron Rodgers -- however, I think they could have waited a year before they got their replacement. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:25 InToTheWannaB wrote: That what he says, but i highly doubt he really retire. He just bitch and end up playing anyway i suspect. Here is the quote from Palmer: "I have $80 million in the bank. I don't have to play football for money. I'll play it for the love of the game but that would have to be elsewhere. I'm prepared to live my life." I think that is 80 million reasons not to come back. Not to mention they just drafted Dalton. EDIT - Kaepernick to the 49ers. Traded up with Denver to get the spot. Jabaal Sheard (DE) to Cleveland | ||
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Strut
United States182 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:30 Strut wrote: anyone know what the 49ers traded to move up for the bronco pick? Edit - They swapped 2nd rounders. SF threw in two 4th round picks as well. Edit edit - GO HOKIES! Ryan Williams to the Cards. He will bolster their run game for sure. | ||
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Strut
United States182 Posts
edit- actually it doesn't seem that bad to me anymore. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:40 Strut wrote: Wow, only moving up 9 spots and it cost them two 4th round picks. But still not as bad as the falcons trade though hah! Who else would have taken Kaepernick before them though? Maybe they were afraid that the Redskins would get him first? | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:43 TranceStorm wrote:Who else would have taken Kaepernick before them though? Maybe they were afraid that the Redskins would get him first? There's so much gamesmanship in the draft, anytime someone trades up you have to assume there was either the fear that the player they coveted was very high on the next team's board, or in this case a player you were counting as a buffer for your guy came off the board. I'm guessing Locker, Dalton and Ponder all coming off the board meant 'GO, GET HIM NOW!' If that first round shakes out differently and 2 or 3 QBs haven't been drafted the 9ers are probably trying to net Kaepernick as late as they can. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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Refreshe
United States141 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:55 Refreshe wrote: Wow why are the Texans getting so many Defensive Linemen. I thought they already had Amoboi okeye and Mario williams. amobi okoye is a bust. wade phillips means switching to the 3-4. texans NEED 3-4 players. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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Refreshe
United States141 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:00 slyboogie wrote: The crazy thing about Okoye is how young he was when he was drafted. I think he was 20(?) in 2007 when he was picked. I mean, I don't think he could line up in a 3-4 but he still has to have value, right? It's a shame that he may end up released. Another crazy thing is that on his wikipedia page, it says he chose Louisville over Harvard! | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
would have liked an o-line guy, but whatever. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:26 GTR wrote: really interesting to see how harbaugh develops kaepernick. Pretty sure they wanted Dalton more, with the short quick passes and game sense he had. Kaepernick's skills aren't really west coast offense style, but Harbaugh's harbaugh, I got faith Be it as it may, I'd still want Alex Smith back for a season or two before throwing Kaepernick in as a starter. Smith, even with all the criticism he got, never had an offensive coach with a brain, and still has the highest returning QB Rating of all the NFC West starters (Hasselbeck, Leinart/whoever the fuck is in AZ, or Bradford) | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:11 BloodNinja wrote: Bowers to Houston. Pick 42 I think. I feel bad for him. Once projected tobe a possible #1 not too long ago. you do realise houston passed on bowers and got brooks reed, right? | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:14 GTR wrote: you do realise houston passed on bowers and got brooks reed, right? soo they did. espn was wrong then. feel worse for the kid now. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 30 2011 07:43 TranceStorm wrote: Who else would have taken Kaepernick before them though? Maybe they were afraid that the Redskins would get him first? Rumors in the bay area are that Al Davis was going to grab him, so the move was smart, and it was a 4th and a 5th. I'd make that trade to secure a QB considering the market for Kolb and Palmer are nearly closed. On April 30 2011 08:03 Refreshe wrote: Another crazy thing is that on his wikipedia page, it says he chose Louisville over Harvard! If you're a D1 football player and planning on going to the NFL you don't choose Harvard over shit. | ||
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Sir.Kimmel
United States785 Posts
Von Miller.. combined with Tebow/Dawkins/Bailey.... and the newest addition of Moore... I'm a little concerned with Franklin over Paea though... | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:16 Zlasher wrote: Rumors in the bay area are that Al Davis was going to grab him, so the move was smart, and it was a 4th and a 5th. I'd make that trade to secure a QB considering the market for Kolb and Palmer are nearly closed. If you're a D1 football player and planning on going to the NFL you don't choose Harvard over shit. I'm a raiders fan and i'm happy the raiders didn't grab him. I think with Harbaugh, he will really develop. He played a lot more west coast style in high school. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:18 Sir.Kimmel wrote: I'm a little concerned with Franklin over Paea though... Austin too... | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Sir.Kimmel
United States785 Posts
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:18 darmousseh wrote: I'm a raiders fan and i'm happy the raiders didn't grab him. I think with Harbaugh, he will really develop. He played a lot more west coast style in high school. Thats good to hear, I'm definitely accepting of Kaepernick, I liked both him and Dalton over Gabbert or Locker. Just felt Dalton's college offense fits with the niners and Stanfords style more, and Alex Smith was the last QB we took with a pistol shotgun offense, but I'll deal lol. They just can't rush him, like they rushed Smith, into the starting role. I remember in 2005 when I was crying tears of blood that my Niners wouldn't just pick the local kid Rodgers, especially since Cal is my team. T.T I was biased, but fuck it if the Niners picked Rodgers lol, what a story that would have been. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:21 Sir.Kimmel wrote: Austin is more of a third rounder in my opinion... but I haven't looked too much into him... so I might just be really uninformed. He's a first round talent that had a suspension the previous year. He made up for it through the East-West/Senior Bowl (forgot which) and strong showings at the Combine and Pro Day. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:20 darmousseh wrote: So picking Kapernick is a signal to me that they are going to use smith this year and develop kapernick. They will probably pick up a vet quaterback for backup. I think kapernick starts the year after if he's ready. I think Smith was going to get signed no matter what, but once again, the only offensive coach Alex Smith ever had was Norv Turner and Smith played very well that season til he left, with Harbaugh in, I wouldn't be surprised if Alex Smith actually bloomed to be a solid, accurate passer, our playbook has been total shit for years since Norv left. I'm hoping Kaepernick doesn't start this season. But gets clean up time and hopefully a week 16 start due to playoffs being locked up. | ||
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Strut
United States182 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:13 Zlasher wrote: Pretty sure they wanted Dalton more, with the short quick passes and game sense he had. Kaepernick's skills aren't really west coast offense style, but Harbaugh's harbaugh, I got faith Be it as it may, I'd still want Alex Smith back for a season or two before throwing Kaepernick in as a starter. Smith, even with all the criticism he got, never had an offensive coach with a brain, and still has the highest returning QB Rating of all the NFC West starters (Hasselbeck, Leinart/whoever the fuck is in AZ, or Bradford) I'm pretty sure they didn't want Dalton, if you check out Jason La Canfora's twitter you'll see: JasonLaCanfora Jason La Canfora 49ers were verry active on Kaepernick. Explored options in late 1st round, and also spoke to NE and BUF today. They got their man at pick 36 that makes me believe they got the man they wanted. It could still be possible they had Locker or Ponder on their radar though, since they were picked much earlier on. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:21 Slaughter wrote: Why did the Lions get a WR :[ was there no decent CBs/LB? Matt Millen snuck back into the facility and called in the pick obviously. | ||
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
I really thought he would be rated higher. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:29 TheBanana wrote: Anyone have an idea as to why Ryan Mallett hasn't been picked yet when this many QBs are drafted? I really thought he would be rated higher. "Character issues" have arisen. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:29 TheBanana wrote: Anyone have an idea as to why Ryan Mallett hasn't been picked yet when this many QBs are drafted? I really thought he would be rated higher. character | ||
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
Oh, I've missed that. What's that about? | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:29 TheBanana wrote: Anyone have an idea as to why Ryan Mallett hasn't been picked yet when this many QBs are drafted? I really thought he would be rated higher. He makes very poor decisions facing any competent passing defense, he chokes in big games like clockwork, and it's very commonly believed that he is a drug user. He also is very irritable and probably the exact opposite of a "leader." His temperament is the kind that is offputting, rather than rallying because of his irritability. He is also awful outside the pocket. He is a "big, strong arm" player but terrible at everything else related to QB. | ||
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Sir.Kimmel
United States785 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
He missed the team workout with Carolina I think. Rumor was he partied too hard and was hungover. Never confirmed tho. Also by staying another year many of his flaws were exposed and he did not look god last year. If he went last year he was a top 5 pick. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:32 TwoToneTerran wrote: He makes very poor decisions facing any competent passing defense, he chokes in big games like clockwork, and it's very commonly believed that he is a drug user. He also is very irritable and probably the exact opposite of a "leader." His temperament is the kind that is offputting, rather than rallying because of his irritability. He is also awful outside the pocket. He is a "big, strong arm" player but terrible at everything else related to QB. Sounds like a perfect fit for the raiders :p | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:35 GTR wrote: who would have thought bowers wouldn't be the first person from clemson off the board? Like I said I feel terrible for the kid. Its crazy how far he has dropped. At this point I think someone will pull the trigger and get a great but very short lived player. Edit - The Bucs pick up Bowers! Pick #51 i think. Great pick at this point. He isnt getting a big payday and he has the talent. So if he stays healthy for a for years its a GREAT deal. IF his knee turns out to be not so bad and he holds up, he could be the steal of the entire draft. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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seansye
United States1722 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
I don't want to watch anymore. Vikings dead last in the NFC North, I have no doubt whatsoever Maybe it's just me but aren't the Lions all of a sudden STACKED talent-wise? Bound to happen after so many years with early draft positions though. Last year they were dominant in a lot of the matches they lost, they're definitely going to be my pick for surprise team next season. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:31 TheBanana wrote: Oh, I've missed that. What's that about? very happy with taking that centre whose dad also happens to be on our coaching staff | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
If you keep on changing like this you will let Oakland and Al Davis take back the title of worst run franchise. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:48 GTR wrote: love how all these good players just drop on the lap of the giants. agreed, giants are killing by just valueing it up | ||
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:20 darmousseh wrote: So picking Kapernick is a signal to me that they are going to use smith this year and develop kapernick. They will probably pick up a vet quaterback for backup. I think kapernick starts the year after if he's ready. You went to HS with Kapernick? That's cool a buddy of mine went to HS and played football with him too. His brother comes into the place where I use to work (Wing-Stop) all the time. I'm not completely sold on him though. Yeah he definitely needs a year or two on the bench to develop, but even then I'm not sure he'll become a franchise qb. Regardless I don't know of a QB left I would have taken before him and the 49ers need a QB so a solid pick nonetheless. For those of you whining about Aldon Smith being a reach, shutup already. The guy was projected to go somewhere between 11-20. 7th's not that big a reach. Especially in comparison to the guy who was picked at 8th. You could argue Quinn has more upside, but he comes at a bigger risk too. Either way both players are young and full of potential and the cream of the crop at their respective positions. Niners definitely aren't playing to win next year though. Two projects with their first two picks :/ | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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SuitGuy
United States186 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:58 sixfour wrote: agreed, giants are killing by just valueing it up yea. it is pretty pro. This is the best I've felt about a draft in a while. Last year i felt ok with JPP in the 1st but he seemed like a project (though if he were to be redrafted he probably goes top 5 this year). | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3995 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On April 30 2011 10:15 GTR wrote: i think belichick is millen in disguise. two rb's in the first three rounds? For the past few years patriots have had something like 5 RBs on their roster. I think the move to draft two running backs probably indicates the are not going to resign their two older RBs, Fred Taylor and Kevin Faulk. That said they didn't address their biggest need: OLB. Why draft another QB when Brad Hoyer (forgot his name) has shown to be a capable backup? Definitely one of the stranger drafts in recent memory from that organization. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Disciple7
United States198 Posts
Nothing notable here but gotta talk about my team =P. Rams look to be building a Patriots-esque offense. Would love to see them take Derrick Locke. P.S. Greg McElroy > Sanchez. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
Anyway, LOVE the Falcons getting Jacquizz Rodgers. As Artosis would say, I love it, I love it, I love it. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On May 01 2011 10:32 Fruscainte wrote: Who was Mr. Irrelevant this year? Cheta Ozougwu, 6' 1 5/8" DE from Rice to the Texans (projected at OLB) ![[image loading]](http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/83/830802.jpg) Wow does he look like a high school linebacker.. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On May 01 2011 10:27 GTR wrote: I think Belichick will develop Mallett for the sole purpose of trade bait in 3-4 years. Anyway, LOVE the Falcons getting Jacquizz Rodgers. As Artosis would say, I love it, I love it, I love it. Idk man in 3-4 years Brady's going to be 37. Not saying Brady still won't be good, but uhh yeah he's going to be old then. edit: and for the record it's not like the Pats couldn't use a 3rd QB on their depth chart. | ||
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Serendipityx
United States595 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On May 01 2011 11:36 ChaosTriggeR wrote: Utterly disappointed with the raiders draft past steve wiz, van dyke was a pure speed pick and taiwan jones too and the raiders don't even need a running back that badly. I wanted to see a safety and a linebacker get drafted and that didn't happen. Would've liked to see Raiders take a chance on mark herzlich in the 7th round who was low risk high reward at that point. Also in terms of safety would've liked to see robert sands considering he was one of the fastest safeties in the draft it made too much sense for it to happen. Also would've liked marcus cannon even if he would've sat out for a year, still a solid prospect. Raiders probably wanted kaepernick in the second if it wasn't for the niners but I'm not too worried about that. Hate all these speed picks, but jacoby ford worked out last year so I'm not gonna throw in the towel just yet. Yeah the Raiders track record for drafting... let's just say you guys will rejoice when Al Davis passes away... | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
with denver not drafting a dt, this is pretty damn plausible. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On May 01 2011 15:26 GTR wrote: rumors flying around denver that they will straight up trade orton for haynesworth. with denver not drafting a dt, this is pretty damn plausible. Woah. That would explain why the Redskins didn't draft a QB either, but are Denver really ready to throw everything behind Tebow yet? I think another season with Orton would be good for Denver, but I suppose that getting a solid dt would be beneficial. At the same time, Haynesworth has been really poor at the Redskins so I think it would be quite a risk. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On May 01 2011 15:26 GTR wrote: rumors flying around denver that they will straight up trade orton for haynesworth. with denver not drafting a dt, this is pretty damn plausible. This is very surprising to me. Orton is much higher value than Haynesworth at this point. Unless there are picks or more players being thrown in, Quinn for Haynesworth would make a lot more sense. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On April 30 2011 08:24 Zlasher wrote: I think Smith was going to get signed no matter what, but once again, the only offensive coach Alex Smith ever had was Norv Turner and Smith played very well that season til he left, with Harbaugh in, I wouldn't be surprised if Alex Smith actually bloomed to be a solid, accurate passer, our playbook has been total shit for years since Norv left. I'm hoping Kaepernick doesn't start this season. But gets clean up time and hopefully a week 16 start due to playoffs being locked up. as bad as the playcalling has been, Smith is just plain old shit. Crap arm strength, wildly inconsistent with 15+yd throws as far as accuracy, is touted as a smart player when he's anything but... please give me david carr instead of ever seeing that idiot in a niners jersey again. At least Carr is a man as proven by him always playing through 8 sacks a game in Texas... Smith such a little sissy it's incredible. The dude gets mentally rattled over the littlest things and that once season with Norv was not anything spectacular. It's certainly worth noting that Gore had nearly 1,700 on the ground alone plus nearly another 500 in the air... any NFL level qb, regardless of experience, should be able to hit the benchmarks he did in that season with Gore being as dominant as he was. Gah I looked up Smith's wiki while writing this and got to view the nice quote that retard egomaniac Mike Nolan said about not drafting Rodgers because he couldn't get along with that attitude. FUCK YOU. Id take any other vet at this point over him, if only just to move on past that huge mistake. Kaepernick, I was not too crazy about. But the sooner he sees the field, the better imo. You can only gain so much from studying film and the playbook. The sooner he gets used to playing with the team in real situations, the better he'll be off I'd take any random fill in vet over Smith at this point | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On May 01 2011 16:25 Qatol wrote: I'm extremely disappointed in the Bears draft picks this year after the first 2 rounds. I'm pissed that Angelo didn't pick up a second lineman this year even though they had the WORST line in the league last year. Instead he spends ANOTHER pick on a safety (he has grabbed one in 9 of the last 10 drafts). That 3rd rounder could have been MUCH better used on an interior lineman. Also, he spent another pick on a 3rd string QB, even though he did that last year and cut the guy before the season started. Now Chicago NEEDS to make a splash in the offensive line free agent market or risk getting Cutler killed out there. And they already had to make a splash to find a big WR and a #2 CB. This is very surprising to me. Orton is much higher value than Haynesworth at this point. Unless there are picks or more players being thrown in, Quinn for Haynesworth would make a lot more sense. The problem with that is... Brady Quinn sucks. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
And Haynesworth missed most of training camp because he couldn't pass a conditioning test even I can pass. Plus the guy played 8 games (eventually getting suspended for "conduct detrimental to the club") and got 13 tackles and 2.5 sacks for the season. Trading Orton for that would be vastly overpaying. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:59 Qatol wrote: And Haynesworth missed most of training camp because he couldn't pass a conditioning test even I can pass. Plus the guy played 8 games (eventually getting suspended for "conduct detrimental to the club") and got 13 tackles and 2.5 sacks for the season. Trading Orton for that would be vastly overpaying. Another piece to consider is that Haynesworth's contract is pretty much dirt cheap moving forward. The Redskins used the uncapped year and paid Haynesworth a bunch of money to make the yearly salary extremely managable. If a 4-3 team takes a flyer and trades for him and gets any production out of him at all, they will win big. That said, there are some pretty IFs in that statement. Edit - I actually like the Cowboys draft this year. They finally drafted a much needed OT and they got one who will play from day 1. Beyond that, they filled some needs but didnt reach for them. Instead of reaching they picked up some quality players that may not have been a need but certainly could become starters in a couple years. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
"We are petitioning the NFL to let Sam wear number five, so he can be Sam Acho Cinco.'' .-- Arizona coach Ken Whisenhunt, after drafting linebacker Sam Acho in the fourth round Saturday omg lol | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On May 01 2011 15:26 GTR wrote: rumors flying around denver that they will straight up trade orton for haynesworth. with denver not drafting a dt, this is pretty damn plausible. Some guy called into a radio station in Detroit once, and was seriously saying that the Lions should trade Ndamukong Suh for Haynesworth. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
On May 03 2011 04:24 Ferrose wrote: Some guy called into a radio station in Detroit once, and was seriously saying that the Lions should trade Ndamukong Suh for Haynesworth. Ladies and gentlemen, your eternal doormats. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On May 03 2011 04:24 Ferrose wrote: Some guy called into a radio station in Detroit once, and was seriously saying that the Lions should trade Ndamukong Suh for Haynesworth. Awhile ago, there was big talk in the DC area about a trade with Detriot involving draft picks. Dc would get picks, Detriot would get Haynesworth, and Haynesworth would get the coach he loved back. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82007c1a/The-Sanch-ini | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On May 27 2011 11:21 GTR wrote: this is why the lockout needs to end now http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82007c1a/The-Sanch-ini Jesus. The NFL Network is pretty desperate to fill airspace if they have to talk about that -_-' | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
dam my team picking up all da inmates On May 27 2011 11:21 GTR wrote: this is why the lockout needs to end now http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82007c1a/The-Sanch-ini wtf lol | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On May 27 2011 12:29 sung_moon wrote: so plaxico to philly possibly? dam my team picking up all da inmates wtf lol God i hope the Eagles take Burress. We already have the most ghetto trash team ever and if he could work back to his old level might as well. Having a "big" WR would be amazing, and no Riley Cooper doesn't count. | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2011-07-14-rookie-wage-scale-lockout_n.htm No more ridiculous JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford-esque rookie contracts NFL salary cap at $120 million http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6768521/nfl-lockout-owners-players-moving-towards-cba-settlement-source-says Looks like Dallas and Washington are going to have a hefty time dealing with their roster. Now we just need these CBA agreements to be intact and they can get on with our lives and we don't have to be annoyed by their constant bickering any longer. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
http://deadspin.com/5823549/dear-chris-kluwe-when-we-want-the-punters-opinion-well-ask-for-it-we-wont | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 15 2011 13:15 yrba1 wrote: NFL Owners/players agree to Rookie Wage scale here http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2011-07-14-rookie-wage-scale-lockout_n.htm No more ridiculous JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford-esque rookie contracts NFL salary cap at $120 million http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6768521/nfl-lockout-owners-players-moving-towards-cba-settlement-source-says Looks like Dallas and Washington are going to have a hefty time dealing with their roster. Now we just need these CBA agreements to be intact and they can get on with our lives and we don't have to be annoyed by their constant bickering any longer. I'm actually under the impression that Washington has A LOT of cap room to play with. Still though it's Washington, I can see them squandering away whatever cap space they have regardless. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On May 27 2011 12:44 DannyJ wrote: God i hope the Eagles take Burress. We already have the most ghetto trash team ever and if he could work back to his old level might as well. Having a "big" WR would be amazing, and no Riley Cooper doesn't count. That would either be a feast or famine type of deal there with him. It would give the eagles a long ball guy who can pluck it out of the air, and Burress would probably face single coverage all day as a #2 or slot guy with safety going to Djax. However, there's the issue of his stupid huge ego, and the fact and integrating him into a limited offense that is catered to Vick's skillsets. Vick-Jackson works because Djax has got the speed to get under the many passes that Vick is off target with. Burress is a guy who is better suited to punishing small corners with passes that are thrown to an area where he and only he can go get it. Vick, even with improvements, is not the type of guy who can finesse it into those spots consistently. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 15 2011 13:15 yrba1 wrote: NFL Owners/players agree to Rookie Wage scale here http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2011-07-14-rookie-wage-scale-lockout_n.htm No more ridiculous JaMarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford-esque rookie contracts NFL salary cap at $120 million http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6768521/nfl-lockout-owners-players-moving-towards-cba-settlement-source-says Looks like Dallas and Washington are going to have a hefty time dealing with their roster. Now we just need these CBA agreements to be intact and they can get on with our lives and we don't have to be annoyed by their constant bickering any longer. lol, why always throw our names with people who are in salary cap hell? If there's one thing you should realize by now it's that we have experts manipulating our salary figures so we actually have some room to maneuver. But yeah, hopefully with Bruce Allen in we actually make good decisions now with our money instead of the abominations like Haynesworth I half expect us to cut more of our crappy veteran players, and get more youth now that shannahan did massive drafting stuff. Also, I'm sure that there's ways to restructure player salaries to not count against the cap as well so we'll see. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/37327/looking-at-2011-salary-cap-figures Only Jets, Giants, Dallas, Green Bay are over the limit | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:41 Hawk wrote: The Minnasota punter, Kluwe, took some shots at Brees and Manning the other day and this writer/former nfler laid the goddamn smackdown in response to that http://deadspin.com/5823549/dear-chris-kluwe-when-we-want-the-punters-opinion-well-ask-for-it-we-wont This was actually a hysterical back and forth. To anyone looking for a comedic read, I'd suggest this quoted link followed by Kluwe's Rebuttal: Can I Kick It? (Yes I Can!) | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Jets got some decisions to make if they wanna get under: Shaun Ellis Steve Weatherford Brodney Pool Tony Richardson Braylon Edwards Wayne Hunter Trevor Pryce Antonio Cromartie Lance Laury Santonio Holmes Eric Smith Brad Smith Drew Coleman Kellen Clemens | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 26 2011 04:58 eshlow wrote: lol, why always throw our names with people who are in salary cap hell? If there's one thing you should realize by now it's that we have experts manipulating our salary figures so we actually have some room to maneuver. But yeah, hopefully with Bruce Allen in we actually make good decisions now with our money instead of the abominations like Haynesworth I half expect us to cut more of our crappy veteran players, and get more youth now that shannahan did massive drafting stuff. Also, I'm sure that there's ways to restructure player salaries to not count against the cap as well so we'll see. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/37327/looking-at-2011-salary-cap-figures Only Jets, Giants, Dallas, Green Bay are over the limit While the Skins are under the cap this year and have better people running the organization Cerato/Snyder basically established DC as a place with absolutely horrendous cap management. If it wasn't for the uncapped year (where they payed off massive amounts of guarantied money upfront, the Skins would still up to their eyeballs in cap issues. That being said, speculation on the teams over the cap is a bit premature at this point. I imagine most of those teams have a number of contracts they can cut or restructure but have not had the opportunity to do so yet. Much like no one expects Haynesworth or McNabb to still be in DC by the end of camp but they are still on the Skins payroll (and they would both have been long gone if not for the lockout). On a semi-related note - Free agency is going to extremely fun to watch. Anyone care to provide an over/under for the number of deals announced by 6:05 PM Friday (6PM Friday is when Free Agency is set to open)? Or an over/under on the number of deals whose announcements are missed due to the big names flooding Friday so no one notices until Saturday? | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 26 2011 05:48 DannyJ wrote: Haha im not sure if i like or hate Kluwe. An amazing statement considering he's a punter. If that is actually written by the punter it could be pretty great. Although the fake Ethan Albright letter to John Madden has to be most classic sports letter of recent years. http://loot-ninja.com/2007/08/23/a-letter-to-john-madden-from-washington-redskins-long-snapper-ethan-albright/ | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
FA opening day is gonna be pretty whacky. I don't even remember who the big names are right now. Who, if any, do the Jets keep out of Edwards, Holmes and Smith?? I think Edwards has the better physical toolset, but Holmes is just a flat out better receiver. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On July 26 2011 05:52 BloodNinja wrote: If that is actually written by the punter it could be pretty great. Although the fake Ethan Albright letter to John Madden has to be most classic sports letter of recent years. http://loot-ninja.com/2007/08/23/a-letter-to-john-madden-from-washington-redskins-long-snapper-ethan-albright/ hahaha | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 26 2011 05:55 Hawk wrote: Washington is a disaster from top to bottom. No idea why shanny thought it would be a good idea to go there. FA opening day is gonna be pretty whacky. I don't even remember who the big names are right now. Who, if any, do the Jets keep out of Edwards, Holmes and Smith?? I think Edwards has the better physical toolset, but Holmes is just a flat out better receiver. If I am the Jets I sign up Edwards day 1 and elt the rest of the NFL fight over Homes. Dan Snyder will be in the business of acquiring Homes and only 2 people win in a bidding war with Dan Snyder. The player and his agent. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On July 26 2011 06:29 DannyJ wrote: What the hell is happening with the Redskins QB situation anyway? We're about to find out a LOT in the next week... /popcorn!! My favorite part (if correct of course) is that teams must payout at least 89% of that 120 mil cap! | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 26 2011 06:29 DannyJ wrote: What the hell is happening with the Redskins QB situation anyway? According to a radio interview today with John Beck, they WILL resign Rex Grossman and it will be an open competition between Grossman and Beck. That is straight from Beck's mouth. As for speculation, McNabb is 100% gone either by trade or being cut. McNabb earns $10 million if he makes the opening day roster and there is zero chance the Redskins are paying him that to hold a clipboard for them. As such, I doubt McNabb will go in the intial trade/free agent frenzy. Best case for DC, someone who wants a veteran starting QB (Arizona/Minn for example) somehow fails to pick one up in the early FA/trade rush. Other shot for DC is that a good playoff caliber team has a QB go down during preseason and they want to pick one up to keep their playoff hopes high. All things said, Haynesworth has a massively significant better shot staying in DC than McNabb and I give Haynesworth about a 5% chance of staying in town As a Dallas fan in the DC area, this has been me watching these sagas develop: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eZjb2.gif) | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 26 2011 05:46 BloodNinja wrote: While the Skins are under the cap this year and have better people running the organization Cerato/Snyder basically established DC as a place with absolutely horrendous cap management. If it wasn't for the uncapped year (where they payed off massive amounts of guarantied money upfront, the Skins would still up to their eyeballs in cap issues. That being said, speculation on the teams over the cap is a bit premature at this point. I imagine most of those teams have a number of contracts they can cut or restructure but have not had the opportunity to do so yet. Much like no one expects Haynesworth or McNabb to still be in DC by the end of camp but they are still on the Skins payroll (and they would both have been long gone if not for the lockout). On a semi-related note - Free agency is going to extremely fun to watch. Anyone care to provide an over/under for the number of deals announced by 6:05 PM Friday (6PM Friday is when Free Agency is set to open)? Or an over/under on the number of deals whose announcements are missed due to the big names flooding Friday so no one notices until Saturday? Again, not really. Having experienced "cap hell" for the past decade I can say that we have never really been in trouble with the cap because of the loopholes that whoever Dan Snyder was paying were finding. Of course, the uncapped year was pretty good for us to jettison most of Haynesworth's contract which was nice. I actually expect us to keep Haynesworth (on the bench) unless we get compensation, but I do see us jettisoning McNabb. On July 26 2011 05:55 Hawk wrote: Washington is a disaster from top to bottom. No idea why shanny thought it would be a good idea to go there. FA opening day is gonna be pretty whacky. I don't even remember who the big names are right now. Who, if any, do the Jets keep out of Edwards, Holmes and Smith?? I think Edwards has the better physical toolset, but Holmes is just a flat out better receiver. I'm guessing he liked that Snyder actually hired a competent GM (Allen) and got rid of Cerrato. Plus, he likes that Snyder is willing to spend the money if he wants someone. Although again, we haven't ACTUALLY made a big free agent splash since Allen/Shanny have been here contrary to popular belief. I think we will resign moss over trying to sign these guys though. Although moss isn't a top receiver, he is still productive and that would leave us more money to sign some much needed Oline help. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 26 2011 06:29 DannyJ wrote: What the hell is happening with the Redskins QB situation anyway? Pretty sure we are going with an open competition between Beck and Grossman. It is huffington post but it's a good article on why the Beck gamble. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hank-koebler/redskins-beck-experiment-_b_905022.html Played Grossman at the end of last season to see what we have. Pretty much just another mediocre QB. I expect to see an open competition in preseason with Beck and a resigned Grossman | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On July 26 2011 08:31 BloodNinja wrote: As for speculation, McNabb is 100% gone either by trade or being cut. McNabb earns $10 million if he makes the opening day roster and there is zero chance the Redskins are paying him that to hold a clipboard for them. As such, I doubt McNabb will go in the intial trade/free agent frenzy. Best case for DC, someone who wants a veteran starting QB (Arizona/Minn for example) somehow fails to pick one up in the early FA/trade rush. Other shot for DC is that a good playoff caliber team has a QB go down during preseason and they want to pick one up to keep their playoff hopes high. I could see McNabb going to someone like the Colts if Manning isn't ready for the regular season. He makes that team, but if it means they might win 1, 2, or 3 games that Manning thinks he might miss, he might be worth 10 mil of 120. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
~Trade off McNabb if possible for a draft pick, otherwise cut him ~Trade off Haynesworth for compensation, otherwise sit him again. Better than someone like Philly getting him which I am sure Bloodninja will agree with him being a Dallas fan. ~Resign Moss (he knows system, is fairly productive) ~Pretty sure we won't be resigning Rogers, McIntosh; will likely go with the younger guys behind since they didn't seem too bad at the end of last year ~Use FA money 1-2 Olinemen ~open competition between Beck + resigned Grossman ~we used a lot of our (surprisingly 10) draft picks on receivers+RBs so it looks like that will be open competition there Therefore: Defense looks to be a bit better going into year 2 in 3-4 scheme with a true FS in Atogwe. Landry will be back and healthy hopefully playing at probowl level. Biggest issue is NT (we have good rotation at 3-4 DE with carriker + rotation) + getting a quality inside linebacker since McIntosh was decent but a much better OLB in 4-3. I might see us trying to get a FA at ILB or NT. Offense as pretty much already stated QB is competition, Skill positions at WR/RB will be competition with young guys for draft picks. I expect us to use FA to address some of the Oline. So basically I likely think we get FA help at NT/Dline, ILB, or Oline. I am not expecting us to go after any of the lots of FA WRs even though everyone keeps saying we will. If we do I'm gonna facepalm. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
This is what gave the Redskins the ability to cut older expensive players (like Portis) in the end. They no longer owed massive amounts of guaranteed money to these vets so they were free to cut them without cap repercussions. As for Shannahan's decision to come to DC. Its pretty simple, Danny Boy wanted a big name coach this time around and Shannahan wanted to coach again with complete personnel control. Both of them got their wish. While Allen is the "GM", its in name only, Allen is a cap specialist who is great at fitting his coach's players into a salary cap. He is not there to control personnel like most other GMs. For DC's FA plans, if I was Shannahan I would let Moss walk and try to get a young good reciever not named Holmes. Its gonna be hard to sell your team to a WR when you say your QB is Beck/Grossman. That said I would just go all-in on defense. I doubt there is true NT out there but there are other players that might be able to convert. I would try to emulate the Ravens SB team as much as possible, build an amazing defense and build a simple but efficient ground based offense. On that note I will get into the Cowboys needs a bit later. They do have some holes to fill but they also has some aging vets they can trade/release to free up cap room. PS - Who actually wants Tiki Barber? I dont think I have seen anyone burn away goodwill that fast in a while. The amount of people who want to see him fail is huge and I understand them. | ||
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xDAYMANx
United States29 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 26 2011 11:13 xDAYMANx wrote: As a long time Jets fan, im hoping they finally make the push this year. Championship caliber team 2 years in a row. biggest downfall is the talking.. granted it makes for exciting tv, but once they eliminate that and focus on the game they will win it all. I dunno. I think Rex Ryan's talking takes a lot of pressure off the team. They never get asked the hard questions, they get asked the stupid questions about some stupid quote. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 26 2011 10:33 BloodNinja wrote: The Redskins under Cerato and Snyder were most definitely under cap hell. Every season they needed to renegotiate major contracts. The end result was contracts like Clinton Portis who was owed around $15 million in guaranteed money for his final year in DC. The Redskins (among other teams) really lucked out on the with the uncapped year. They used that year to pay off massive amounts guaranteed contracts upfront. This is what gave the Redskins the ability to cut older expensive players (like Portis) in the end. They no longer owed massive amounts of guaranteed money to these vets so they were free to cut them without cap repercussions. As for Shannahan's decision to come to DC. Its pretty simple, Danny Boy wanted a big name coach this time around and Shannahan wanted to coach again with complete personnel control. Both of them got their wish. While Allen is the "GM", its in name only, Allen is a cap specialist who is great at fitting his coach's players into a salary cap. He is not there to control personnel like most other GMs. For DC's FA plans, if I was Shannahan I would let Moss walk and try to get a young good reciever not named Holmes. Its gonna be hard to sell your team to a WR when you say your QB is Beck/Grossman. That said I would just go all-in on defense. I doubt there is true NT out there but there are other players that might be able to convert. I would try to emulate the Ravens SB team as much as possible, build an amazing defense and build a simple but efficient ground based offense. On that note I will get into the Cowboys needs a bit later. They do have some holes to fill but they also has some aging vets they can trade/release to free up cap room. PS - Who actually wants Tiki Barber? I dont think I have seen anyone burn away goodwill that fast in a while. The amount of people who want to see him fail is huge and I understand them. 1. Nah, we weren't in cap hell. Trust me i look over the figures every year and it;s surprising how it gets down. What the Redskins were particular adept at doing is guaranteeing some of the option stuff to push back a lot of the figures to subsequent years, and restructure contracts somehow that it takes money off the cap hit. Even if 2010 were an uncapped year we still had about 20-30million to maneuver under.... we only had $109 million in cap hits prior to the season where if the CBA was ratified last year the cap would've been 136 million. So.... no cap hell. 2. Most teams backload contracts so they can cut the players when they get too expensive. That's pretty much standard... the uncapped year did help so that we could dump about $24 million of haynesworth's contract so his cap hit this year is something like only 5 million. 3. I agree in that I think that Redskins are gonna focus primarily on defense, and see what comes on offense. ZBS generally gets a fairly good run game going so they can just ball control while taking shots downfield that shanny likes. We'll see if Kyle is up for that though. 4. Allen, it seems, has been great at negotiating reasonable contracts, and maneuvering in the draft so far so we'll see. I'm pretty sure that Shanny has personel control like you said though too I guess. 5. If we were to go for a receiver I would probably say go for Sidney Rice.... but I'm pretty sure we're gonna resign Moss. 6. Pretty much expect that the next year or two are gonna be rebuild until mike/kyle get all of the personel they want.... but I am fairly optimistic overall with the direction we are going. If they could get the talent depleted and injured team to 6-10 last year we should be able to get a bit better this year with a lot of younger players and people hopefully staying injury free. I find it particularly funny how most of the news outlets are predicting us to go like 2-14 or something like that. We will have a better defense than last year getting more people to fit the 3-4 scheme which was our major weakness, and our offense will likely click better too with another year of experience in ZBS + open competition of youth at RB +WR. The only question is QB and even QB depleted teams like teh seahawks finished at least decent last year (7-9 regular season and showed they can beat good teams in the playoffs). There is absolutely no way we will go from 6-10 and lose 3-4 more games even if Beck is playing. Beck doesn't throw many INTs as he's more of a ball control QB anyway 7. lol @ tiki barber.... I don't think anyone will pick him up to be honest. He's an old RB and pretty much a douchebag | ||
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Hoodlum
United States350 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
But meh, cap talk is boring (and pretty pointless with all the NFL's silly accounting tricks) so i guess we will have to agree to disagree as I doubt either of us will change our minds. I still doubt the Skins keep Moss, unless he changed his mind over the lockout, he was looking for max money and I don't see Shannahan paying top dollar for Moss. As for the Skins record, I think they hit 6-10 again this year under Beck and run heavy offense. If Rex is the starter than the Skins are shooting for the Andrew Luck sweepstakes as Rex Grossman is an unmitigated disaster. I wouldn't look to the Seahawks for hope wither as the Skins have to play Dallas, NY, and Philly twice each instead of Arizona, SF, St Louis (where Seattle went 4-2). On July 26 2011 12:40 DannyJ wrote: The Giants should take Tiki back and make him do special teams. The Giants are already on record as saying they are going to cut him as soon as it is allowed. They want no part of Tiki. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 26 2011 08:57 eshlow wrote: I'd be interested to see what kind of analysis you would see on how your guys' teams address free agency! For the 49ers? Bleh -Resign Alex Smith (pretty much a must at this point, he knows the playbook better than every other player on the team) -Restructure or cut Nate Clements. His performance of late + age don't justify his expensive contract. -Let Aubrayo Franklin go. I know he's been really good the past few years, but he's going to want one last big paycheck to cash in on and at his age (31 when the season starts) he won't be worth it. I also think his performance will dip after he's been paid. Don't get me wrong I know he's a good player, but his performance the past few years has been in contract years... yeah he's one of those guys. This kind of puts us at a hole for NT and I'm not sure if there's a really great solution for it. People have talked about moving Sopoaga back to NT, but from my understanding he played there 3-4 years ago and got shoved around. -Resign Manny Lawson if he's affordable? He's not really a 3-4 OLB, but he's easily our most athletic LB... after Willis of course. Actually I guess he might be 3rd most athletic LB after the Aldon Smith pick. Still Smith was a DE end in college and is going to need time to adjust to being OLB so I'd like to have Lawson around. -Chase after Asomugha, get Jonathan Joseph if outbid. Pretty much our secondary blows. Remember that play where Donald Driver trashed it? Yeah we need help... bad. Asomugha is a man-coverage player not really a zone player and he's not the most physical corner (I think Driver would have man-handled him after he got the ball if he was in on that play for the 49ers), but he's a GAME-CHANGER. He shuts down whoever he's lined up against... how could we not want that? IF we don't get Asomugha (which we probably won't, we are the niners after all) then get Jonathan Joseph. One of the game's better corners (although not an Asomugha). I cannot highlight how critical I think it is for the 49ers to get one of the games better cornerbacks on the FA market. Asomugha's don't really come around often on the open market and the 49ers secondary is BAD. We got torched repeatedly last year. Don't get me wrong I know that part of that not having a substantial pass-rush, but fuck our secondary blows right now. Clements and Dashon Goldson are both more physical defensive backs who are good vs the run, but are lacking somewhat in coverage. Shawnte Spencer is the very definition of mediocre and Reggie Smith sucks (except at dancing). -Resign Dashon Goldson. I know I just got done bashing him somewhat and he is a liability in coverage, but I just can't think of anybody that would be an improvement over him on the free agent market right now? Someone help me out on this... Also I think if we shell out big $$$ to an elite cornerback, we won't really be able to shell out big $$$ for an elite anywhere else. I'm sort of running out of steam here but let me see... offense wise? Resign everyone who are our FAs on the offense line.... we need them (I don't really know of anyone talented enough to sign in FA sorry); maybe chase after a Veteran WR to flank/teach Crabtree. I actually wouldn't mind Terrell Owens at this point, because I think he would come cheap and wouldn't bring too much of an act with him... he's been fairly quiet the past few years (at least according to TO standards). At RB we are stacked, at TE we are stacked. At FB... we still have Moran Norris right? An upgrade over him would be nice, but it's not a major necessity. I think that's about it for the 49ers. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Agreed about Lawson. Definitely agree about corners because goddamn the secondary was horrible... getting better on the pashrush a bit would help that somewhat, but it's largely an issue of the talent not being there in the secondary. Not so sure about Joseph. And I agree, might as well bring back Goldson without having a good replacement | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 26 2011 12:57 BloodNinja wrote: I still doubt the Skins keep Moss, unless he changed his mind over the lockout, he was looking for max money and I don't see Shannahan paying top dollar for Moss. As for the Skins record, I think they hit 6-10 again this year under Beck and run heavy offense. If Rex is the starter than the Skins are shooting for the Andrew Luck sweepstakes as Rex Grossman is an unmitigated disaster. I wouldn't look to the Seahawks for hope wither as the Skins have to play Dallas, NY, and Philly twice each instead of Arizona, SF, St Louis (where Seattle went 4-2). The Giants are already on record as saying they are going to cut him as soon as it is allowed. They want no part of Tiki. Pretty sure Moss wants to be paid but he knows he's not top dollar. I'm pretty sure something reasonable will be done. Seahawks was an analogy. We went 6-10 against NFCE + tough teams from last year so saying we're gonna get worse from the media is pretty amusing overall. We do get to play NFCW this year, but we also get to play AFCE which sucks. We will have to see though. I'm pretty much expecting something along the lines of 5-10 to 8-8 or so. I will be surprised if we have a winning record, and I will be surprised if we get significantly worse (e.g. 4-10). But yeah, I'd like to see your analysis of the Cowboys... I'm not as up to date as I should be except that you guys have a new D coordinator, and FAs of sensabaugh, free, etc. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
but I would always take asomugha | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
Allan Ball (Restricted) Alex Barron Stephen Bowen Doug Free Jason Hatcher Sam Hurd Kyle Kosier Gerald Sensabaugh Marcus Spears Leon Williams Early thoughts on what the Cowboys need to do: 1. Fix the cap. They are over the cap roughly 18 million dollars as of this moment. They need to restructure some contracts for their big name players they want to keep (Ware, Romo, Austin). They need to cut some overpriced guys like Marion Barber, Leonard Davis, and Marc Colombo. They can position themselves well under the cap for this year, although some of the cuts may add some dead money to 2012 which could hurt their ability to sign players next year. 2. Get Rob Ryan with his players ASAP. The man knows how run a defense and the players will need to learn his system. 3. Resign Doug Free yesterday. He may not be an all-time great but he is a very solid left tackle and that is very hard spot to fill on a whim. They might also look to resign Kosier I think. 4. Sign some Safeties. Resign Ball and move him back to corner. There is a chance they resign Sesabaugh. However, if they don't they can fill the holes with a number of second tier players like a Michael Huff or Abram Elam (who played with Ryan in Cleveland). 5. Get some defensive ends. Bowen (a starter) and Hatcher (primary backup) are free agents. Olshansky is solid but nothing special. D-ends last season were definitely not a strength for the Cowboys. I think they go after Cullen Jenkins or try to resign Bowen. Its hard getting good Cowboys info in the DC area so I have to go by what I read mostly on ESPN as I follow them. Those silly Skins take up all the time on talk radio. That said I think the Cowboys are in pretty good shape going into this year. Its not a Superbowl team imo, but, it could be a playoff contender. Offense QB: Romo will be solid RB: Felix Jones and Tashard Choice will be a nasty combo. The Cowboys had Jones add bulk over the past couple seasons and he looked slower last year and didn't appear to have that old burst. All reports are that he has cut the bulk and is lightning fast again. They also picked up Murray from Oklahoma to add some depth. WR/TE: Austin/Bryant/Witten are all threats that need to be respected. They also have good depth here behind the starters. Oline: Biggest concern for the offense. Tyron Smith can step in day 1 at RT and improve them there. They picked up a OG in the 4th round, hopefully he can add some depth if he isn't starter quality. They still need to continue to get younger/better here. Defense Dline: Ratliff is great, but ends need to improve. Not sure what is out there or if resigning Bowen would be best. LB: Solid core here. My main concern is how long can Keith Brooking keep it up. I think one of the backups looks promising and was being groomed but its been to long to remember who it was. CB: Newman is getting older, slower, more expensive which is a concern. Michael Jenkins is fine. They need to move Allan Ball back over to CB when they resign him. Scandrick is also pretty solid. There will be rumors of the Cowboys going after Asogmwa, but that is a smoke screen imo. Safety: Biggest concern. They need to fill this void. Sesabaugh is a FA and Ball is moving back to CB. They could give Barry Church more reps, but I think this is where the Cowboys will be spending their money. They need to bring in two safeties in some form whether purely through FA or by resigning Sensabuagh and another through FA. And that wall of text is my thoughts on the Cowboys from top to bottom. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 27 2011 00:10 Mattchew wrote: The bears should go after plexico (adding height jumpball guy with all the speed receivers would be devasting to any defense) and maybe that dude from the vikings d-line. other than that I would like to stay put with the team we have but I would always take asomugha How do you not want another OL? Carimi is a start, but he's a rookie and the line was godawful last season. Also I'm not convinced Plaxico is fast enough to keep Martz happy. Besides, he's getting up there in age. I'm personally hoping for Malcolm Floyd and stealing a lineman from Atlanta. And resigning Kreutz, Adams, and at least 2 of Tino, Roach, and Iwuh is a must. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
Hopefully we can get something for McNabb.. Ravens cutting Kelley, Heap, McGahee, Mason was pretty surprising but makes sense for them Giants cut 3/5 of their starting Oline in Shaun O'Hara, Rich Seubert and Shawn Andrews... lol. Probably gonna resign most of them though? Who knows... Cowboys cut Marion Barber, Leonard Davis, Roy Williams and Kris Brown... prolly Columbo too. Not too surprising | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13773 Posts
fml every year. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:53 yrba1 wrote: Rams signed former Eagles S Quintin Mikell, I'm hoping they sign Barry Cofield next (hope the Redskins don't go after him) Doubt we will but we do need DLine help..... I don't think Cofield can play NT though which is what we need. On July 27 2011 12:00 sermokala wrote: My vikings are so screwed the QB we had went to seattle. He wasnt that good but a good QB is literaly the only standing inbetween the vikings being a superbowl contending team like 2 years ago to being a shitty joke like last year. fml every year. Well, I'm hoping you take McNabb off our hands for a draft pick... | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
McNabb to Minn for 2 6ths it seems? | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
49ers and Raiders are in a bidding war for DaShon Goldson which strikes me as odd... shouldn't the Raiders resign Michael Huff? I would think Huff > Goldson anyday so this strikes me as odd... guess the Raiders feel they can't afford Huff. Oh yeah Takeo Spikes and his huge neck signed with the SD Chargers Gonna miss him. He was really underrated and a solid performer for the 3 years he was with the 49ers. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:53 yrba1 wrote: Rams signed former Eagles S Quintin Mikell, I'm hoping they sign Barry Cofield next (hope the Redskins don't go after him) Sources: Figuers on #Redskins agreement with former #Giants DL Barry Cofield: 6 years at $6 million per year. $12.5 million guaranteed. On July 27 2011 12:00 sermokala wrote: My vikings are so screwed the QB we had went to seattle. He wasnt that good but a good QB is literaly the only standing inbetween the vikings being a superbowl contending team like 2 years ago to being a shitty joke like last year. fml every year. Indeed took mcnabb off our hands for 2 6ths. | ||
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RealDeal
United States117 Posts
On July 27 2011 12:00 sermokala wrote: My vikings are so screwed the QB we had went to seattle. He wasnt that good but a good QB is literaly the only standing inbetween the vikings being a superbowl contending team like 2 years ago to being a shitty joke like last year. fml every year. Try being 24, a New York Jets fan, a New York Mets fan,a New York Knicks fan. 3 sports 3 teams 0 championships in that time, i don't even know what its like FMLBriefly on the Jets with the off season. First of all the jets have 19 FA and just a TON of work to be done with very little time, with that being said the Jets coaching staff is the same 100% as it was last year... Well almost: we all remember this + Show Spoiler + But with the same coaching staff once their roster is set and printed it will be right back in it.Mr T. (Mike Tannabaum) is the best or one of the best GMs in the league.He is a genius at restructuring contracts and playing the cap perfectly.it doesn't hurt that almost every free agent has went on the record wanting to play for Rex and the Jets.I think the top 3 prioritys for him rite now is: -Sign Santonio Holmes. -Throw a decent contract at Asumwa,He did say he would love to come here, he might take a little pay cut who knows.If you can't get him, resign Antonio Cromartie. -Sign Sean Ellis to a one year deal so he can bring up our 1st round draft pick for a year, then let him retire as one of the longest carrers anyone has had as a Jet. With the regular season i would think the Jets should go 10-5 make the playoffs with a 5 or 6 seed and make another run.Me being the pessimistic sports fan i am, never high hopes in the playoffs,but its nice to be talking football again.Was a long 130 day lockout ha. I'll throw my chips at Packers vs. Patriots in the Super Bowl. Both teams will be better this year than last year as well, lets not forget the PATS were the clear cut the best team in NFL before we upset them in the 2nd round(finally). | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
i really doubt it will happen though. | ||
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RealDeal
United States117 Posts
On July 27 2011 14:11 GTR wrote: asamougha to the jets would be like jaedong moving to kt lol i really doubt it will happen though. LOL, na wouldn't be that bad. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:48 eshlow wrote: Ravens cutting Kelley, Heap, McGahee, Mason was pretty surprising but makes sense for them Cowboys cut Marion Barber, Leonard Davis, Roy Williams and Kris Brown... prolly Columbo too. Not too surprising Ravens cuts are pretty much on par with what was expected from them. They are looking to resign some of those guys (Mason/Heap from what I remember) to smaller contracts. Dallas cuts not surprising at all it is reported that cutting Williams and Barber alone freed up 10 million. Also they resigned Doug Free. Colombo will stay if he takes less money. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On July 27 2011 13:35 nemY wrote: Pretty good deal for the Vikes. McNabb was a probowler 2 years ago and I don't really think Ponder is ready to start yet. 49ers and Raiders are in a bidding war for DaShon Goldson which strikes me as odd... shouldn't the Raiders resign Michael Huff? I would think Huff > Goldson anyday so this strikes me as odd... guess the Raiders feel they can't afford Huff. Oh yeah Takeo Spikes and his huge neck signed with the SD Chargers Gonna miss him. He was really underrated and a solid performer for the 3 years he was with the 49ers.I think anyone was an improvement over Favre at this point, but I am not sure how McNabb pans out. Granted, he was on the skins last year, but still he did not look so hot. Accuracy was never his thing (the ankle pass above is 100% accurate), and you'd have to imagine he's playing in more of a management type of roll in Minn with AP running. AP, Harvin and Rice if they keep him is a nice core to work with though. Can't forget Dongman at TE either. Don't get the bidding war with Goldson. We have no reason to be in that. | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
On July 27 2011 14:11 GTR wrote: asamougha to the jets would be like jaedong moving to kt lol i really doubt it will happen though. The Jets roster is pretty much a glass cannon at this point. All it takes is one injury and then the dominoes start falling. It would be smarter for the Jets to fix those holes they have at safety at this point. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On July 28 2011 04:32 yrba1 wrote: The Jets roster is pretty much a glass cannon at this point. All it takes is one injury and then the dominoes start falling. It would be smarter for the Jets to fix those holes they have at safety at this point. Don't need safeties with Asomougha and Revis! Just put in two Roy Williams types, haha. Don't the Jets have Jim Leonard and Eric Smith? That's not god awful. Just below average. | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
On July 28 2011 04:51 slyboogie wrote: Don't need safeties with Asomougha and Revis! Just put in two Roy Williams types, haha. Don't the Jets have Jim Leonard and Eric Smith? That's not god awful. Just below average. Even though Revis and Asomugha pair up, it isn't hard to find a hole in that defense, especially with their pretty bad safeties. The Patriots adapted pretty well drafting Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski to exploit that little loophole of the Jets. A second year in Belichick's system and we'll be seeing those guys' stats inflate whenever they play the Jets plus they have a better RB-tandem with Vereen, Woodhead, Green-Ellis, Ridley. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 27 2011 09:27 Qatol wrote: How do you not want another OL? Carimi is a start, but he's a rookie and the line was godawful last season. Also I'm not convinced Plaxico is fast enough to keep Martz happy. Besides, he's getting up there in age. I'm personally hoping for Malcolm Floyd and stealing a lineman from Atlanta. And resigning Kreutz, Adams, and at least 2 of Tino, Roach, and Iwuh is a must. I think another O-Line would be nice and would help but isn't 100% nessacary. People underrate our O-Line and overrate its importance in a Mike Martz System. Floyd would be great but come on man its still plax... he would be the redzone threat we need i hope we keep tino and roach over lwuh (personally) | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
also, the Bears oline is god awful | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On July 28 2011 05:03 yrba1 wrote: Even though Revis and Asomugha pair up, it isn't hard to find a hole in that defense, especially with their pretty bad safeties. The Patriots adapted pretty well drafting Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski to exploit that little loophole of the Jets. A second year in Belichick's system and we'll be seeing those guys' stats inflate whenever they play the Jets plus they have a better RB-tandem with Vereen, Woodhead, Green-Ellis, Ridley. I don't really have a rooting interest for either team, so I don't see how the Patriots work into this discussion. And it isn't like the Jets play the Patriots every week of the season. The point is, Revis/Asomougha would be very very fearsome. Easily better than the Bengals with Hall and Joseph(who I think is a Free Agent?) Besides, I'd rather pay Asomougha a boatload of money than Antonio Cromartie three-quarters of a boat of money. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On July 28 2011 06:01 slyboogie wrote: I don't really have a rooting interest for either team, so I don't see how the Patriots work into this discussion. And it isn't like the Jets play the Patriots every week of the season. The point is, Revis/Asomougha would be very very fearsome. Easily better than the Bengals with Hall and Joseph(who I think is a Free Agent?) Besides, I'd rather pay Asomougha a boatload of money than Antonio Cromartie three-quarters of a boat of money. The point he is making is that Asomougha and Revis would almost never be covering the TE/RB because that responsibility falls to the safeties and Lbs on occasion, and the Jets safeties are slow and shitty. Many teams carry at least one fast, pass catching TE to exploit this match up from time to time, and some times have flat out dominant TEs who will feast on it. Similarly, any team with a Leon Washington or Reggie Bush type of player coming out of the backfield on a passing route is gonna skull fuck their safeties all day if gameplanned right. Not to mention it's kind of nutty giving franchise money to two CBs when not many teams carry two top flight WRs, trying to just air it out all day to them. There's much better places for them to spend the money | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Leonard and Smith are slow and shitty? Fine. Then sign....Roman Harper? Dawan Landry? Atari Bigby? C'mon. You wouldn't pay those guys and be happy about it. Now, if you could get Tanard Jackson, that's something. But I don't know if the Jets have shown interest. If the Jets want to spend money on a player who is clearly the best or second best at his position and pair him with another player who is clearly best or second best at their position, that's a philosophical thing. It might represent a loss in potential value and inefficient allocation of financial resources but at least it has a high percentage chance of working out the way the Jets imagine it, which is all you can hope for in a Free Agent signing. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
I do agree that the safety market ain't so hot now (there was even a bidding war for Goldson lol) But I don't think that means you go sink such a huge cost into a second corner. I think he's a damn good player and will work out wherever, but that doesn't make it a good decision based on the team's financial situation and the holes they have elsewhere on the roster. The opponents offense dictates whether or not the 2nd lockdown CB is worth it, not the D. Most teams don't bring someone worth shutting down in that position Frankly, I think they'd be better served by putting that money towards bringing back Edwards (or another one of the good young receivers out there) to help develop Sanchez and give them some sick balance on offense. Find a good but less costly CB and then gameplan for getting a good S either the following offseason or the one after. | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
On July 28 2011 06:01 slyboogie wrote: I don't really have a rooting interest for either team, so I don't see how the Patriots work into this discussion. And it isn't like the Jets play the Patriots every week of the season. The point is, Revis/Asomougha would be very very fearsome. Easily better than the Bengals with Hall and Joseph(who I think is a Free Agent?) Besides, I'd rather pay Asomougha a boatload of money than Antonio Cromartie three-quarters of a boat of money. tl;dr? All it takes to beat that Revis-Asomugha duo are quality receiving TEs, slot receivers, and RBs. Wouldn't be surprised if Antonio Gates puts up 150 yds against those two just because those Jets safeties are pretty garbage | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
You are implying, that a team with Revis and Asomougha is beatable with a good strategy and strong execution. This is a completely pointless statement. No team isn't beatable with a good strategy and strong execution. There is NO safety out there that the Jets could sign that would make their scheme that much stronger against Antonio Gates. They have to take the parts they have and scheme appropriately for a game plan that they know is coming. THAT would be the benefit of a Revis-Asomougha duo. Frankly, it would be a huge strength. What downside(aside from the opportunity cost of the money) is there to having this combination? That Tight Ends are somehow BETTER against you because you signed Asomougha? Ridiculous. Your opportunity cost, assuming its on defense, would be linemen, linebackers and safeties. The Jets linebackers corp is strong. The line is strong. The safeties are weak. Now go look at the 2011 Free Agent class for safeties. Very few of them are good. I guess Gibril Wilson is okay...Quintin Mikell is not bad. Weddle has been resigned, I think. Tanard Jackson is a young stud. Bernard Pollard? Daniel Manning? Yeah. These guys will save you from Antonio Gates, Jermichael Finley and Vernon Davis. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
If he does end up on the Jets that would definitely be a sight to see though. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
Don't think the Jets will sign Asomugha though. Secondary would be good, butlike sly said who else is there to get? There's decently strong DL left which may help since you could probably get pressure and have some LBs drop back to help in secondary. Rex Ryans problem though I'm sure he can come up with something decent | ||
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
Blah I was getting antsy with all this free agency going on and nothing happening (for NE). I'm hoping for the best obviously but this isn't a big deal if it doesn't pan out since the cost isn't significant. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
like if the eagles fix their secondary and offensive line, they can make a run at the superbowl | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
@ eshlow: Not sure if you are keeping up with the news. Rabach, Daniels, and Kemoeatu (reports on Roydell Williams being cut as well but unconfirmed). Stockley no longer coming to DC after he saw they signed 17 billion other WRs. Traded Haynesworth, McNabb, and Jarman. Kelen Clemmons/Josh Williams signed via FA. I am sure I am missing some other names in here. My thoughts, interesting that they cut Rabach. He was definitely declining in skill but with the QB situation as it I figured they would keep an old hand at C around as that would make the transition easier. The Jarmon trade makes no sense to me. Trading a young plyable DE who showed some great flashes for Jabbar Gaffney? The Dline is one of many weak points and adding another vet WR to the list of 50 others (ok not 50 but they have 13 currently signed) you are signing seems silly. Also not sure I like the Clemmons pickup either. They already have two youngish but not rookie QBs is there really a need for a 3rd? I figure you bring in the big name vet to lead or you bring in the project to sit on your bench while you build him. The rest of the moves make sense to me. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
The Texans are aided in their pursuit of Asomugha by the fact the state of Texas has no state income tax. lol also; reggie bush to miami (no surprises there) | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
On July 29 2011 00:11 Palmar wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about the eagles trading away mikell, the secondary is already pretty weak. like if the eagles fix their secondary and offensive line, they can make a run at the superbowl Last I heard, the Eagles are likely to get Domonic Rodgers-Cromartie in their deal of Kolb to the Cards. That was probably the reason they traded Mikell. | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
Haynesworth to the Pats will be something to watch. I don't know what he deal was with the Redskins last year but he was clearly unhappy and made it known by continually not showing up for practices and whatnot. Which led to his being benched and causing all that hubub. Not sure if he'll be happier in NE, but if he is and can get in good shape it might make the Pats even scarier. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
and reggie bitch to miami. not too surprised about this | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Not a great source. But it's been in the works for a while. EDIT: I think it's a good trade for both teams. Fills big needs at QB with Kolb for Arizona and the left? side of the field for the Eagles with Cromartie. However, I do think that Cromartie is pretty overrated, much like his cousin, Antonio, due to his interception total. When will people realize that the sign of a great Defensive Back is how often they're thrown to? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
I also wonder how much success he will find in receiving, one of the few things he did well. No Brees tossing the ball, which made anyone on the field a threat, and Marshall is really the only dude on that offense that merits any kind of game planning. Everyone always says Bush was worth something because you have to account for him on each play (fairly true) but people also forget that safeties already had their hands full between doubling Colston and marking up on Shockey and whichever slot receiver was out there. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On July 29 2011 04:09 Hawk wrote: Without Brees, the rest of the O and no Peyton calling everything, Bush is going to be exposed more than he already was as a really overrated and overpaid 3rd down/change of pace back. That's going to be a disaster unless they bring back Brown or some other bigger dude who isn't terrified of hitting the hole. I also wonder how much success he will find in receiving, one of the few things he did well. No Brees tossing the ball, which made anyone on the field a threat, and Marshall is really the only dude on that offense that merits any kind of game planning. Everyone always says Bush was worth something because you have to account for him on each play (fairly true) but people also forget that safeties already had their hands full between doubling Colston and marking up on Shockey and whichever slot receiver was out there. As a Miami fan, and former Reggie Bush hater(he's on my team now k?) I didn't like the move at first but i really makes sense. They drafted Daniel Thomas to fill in Where Brown and Williams left off ( sad I will miss them both) and now they brought in a back to help get the pressure off Henne in passing downs by giving him a threat out of the back field. I mean Marshall is decent, not as good as he was in denver but still decent. Bess is an amazing Slot receiver, one of the best. And to be honest I think Fasano is underrated overall as a tight end. So I can see this working out. I still think they needed to focus on another WR to compliment Marshall and Bess since Bess isn't really a 2. I think the real question is if Henne will actually show up this season and not if Reggie was worth the pick up. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Personally, I don't think either are people I'd want viewed as a long term answer for my team. That's really just one of many problems though. RB is another, and expecting a rookie to pick up a lot of slack there can either work or totally backfire. As far as whether or not the Bush move was worth it, that's really a matter of what they gave up to get him and how much they're paying him. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
I don't think Miami has that many holes to be honest. The team offensively just doesn't mesh well and was confused on its identity last season trying to throw when it should have just been pounding the ball away. Like I said I didn't like Bush in NO but now that he's a Dolphin I must convert to his fan for the next couple of seasons. We'll see how he pans out. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 28 2011 05:17 Mattchew wrote: I think another O-Line would be nice and would help but isn't 100% nessacary. People underrate our O-Line and overrate its importance in a Mike Martz System. Floyd would be great but come on man its still plax... he would be the redzone threat we need http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knfZTu8UokM&feature=related i hope we keep tino and roach over lwuh (personally) Go watch the first half of the Giants game again. Cutler was on his back almost every single pass play, and on runs, Forte was consistently running into the Giants DLine behind the line of scrimmage. Cutler was sacked the most out of any QB in the league last season. Right now our two best linemen (probably - can never be sure with rookies) are a rookie who has yet to play a single snap and missed all of the offseason work thanks to the lockout and a 34 year old free agent who we are hoping has enough loyalty to come back to the team. Is it still plax? How do you know? He hasn't played in 2 years. He's very old for his position. And Floyd has all of his skills but without the drama attached and he's younger. I don't see any reason to grab Plax over Floyd. I have a hard time justifying Plax at all to be honest - I don't think he's worth the roster spot. If you're really worried about red zone efficiency, get some better linemen so the rushing game can become an actual threat to score - right now teams are able to use a very minimal pass rush and load up the end zone and just wait for Cutler to throw it away. Tino and Roach are great, but keeping both may not be possible. Roach wants the chance to start. Tino doesn't exactly want to give up his starting position. Iwuh costs less than both and is a special teams stud. My personal preference is for Tino and Iwuh - Tino has a higher upside when he isn't hurt and Roach wants a bigger payday then I'd like to see for a backup. Tino is also the only LB I feel comfortable with at MLB if (knock on wood...) Urlacher goes down again. | ||
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tdynasty
Canada220 Posts
Thank god the players signed. They hosted a long ass conference call. The call was actually conducted 2 floors below my workstation. I work for the company that hosted the call! I actually tried to infiltrate the conference but my login for Event Conferences is long forgotten (8 months since I moved from Event). I heard about the NFL call. I knew on the spot, NLFPA having a call. I was actually pretty upset I took no part of their call. I think it would have been my Dream to Conduct that conference call. Global Crossing just made NFL get it's ass back into practice season. I'm still trying to hunt down who conducted that call so I can interogate them. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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GameTime
United States222 Posts
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rod-
Norway379 Posts
Also happy to see Kolb going to Arizona, I have some faith in him. Miami also got Reggie Bush, who I still think is one of the best playmakers in NFL today. So yeah AFC east is still imo the best divison as of now. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
EDIT: What did they get for Olsen? I didn't see anything yet. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 29 2011 08:45 turamn wrote: If anyone can get Haynesworth and Ocho to shut up and play, it's Bellichick. He might have just made out like a bandit. EDIT: What did they get for Olsen? I didn't see anything yet. A pick and a player, which haven't been named yet. The player is not Steve Smith. The thing is I doubt it's going to be much. Probably something like a 4th and a backup lineman. I just don't have any faith in Angelo's ability to make a good trade after the Gaines Adams fiasco. | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On July 29 2011 08:51 Qatol wrote: A pick and a player, which haven't been named yet. The player is not Steve Smith. The thing is I doubt it's going to be much. Probably something like a 4th and a backup lineman. I just don't have any faith in Angelo's ability to make a good trade after the Gaines Adams fiasco. I was blown away by this, this is such a massive steal; we haven't had a TE since the 90s (not sure what we can expect from Shockey, either). We could send y'all our entire receiving corps excluding Smitty and it's a bargain. Now all we need is a quarterback. And a couple of other receivers :x It's such an odd move, the Bears are one of the few teams with receivers as weak as ours (as evidenced by Muhammad bouncing back and forth between us), and Olsen was such a great asset. I really don't get it. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 29 2011 09:02 Quesa wrote: I was blown away by this, this is such a massive steal; we haven't had a TE since the 90s (not sure what we can expect from Shockey, either). We could send y'all our entire receiving corps excluding Smitty and it's a bargain. Now all we need is a quarterback. And a couple of other receivers :x It's such an odd move, the Bears are one of the few teams with receivers as weak as ours (as evidenced by Muhammad bouncing back and forth between us), and Olsen was such a great asset. I really don't get it. I agree. It's such a weird move. Chicago turned their biggest position of strength into a weakness in less than a week by cutting or trading 3 of their 4 tight ends and replacing them with a backup from Pittsburgh. Meanwhile Carolina make out like bandits. Maybe it's payback for the Jamar Williams for Chris Harris trade? | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 29 2011 09:40 Qatol wrote: I agree. It's such a weird move. Chicago turned their biggest position of strength into a weakness in less than a week by cutting or trading 3 of their 4 tight ends and replacing them with a backup from Pittsburgh. Meanwhile Carolina make out like bandits. Maybe it's payback for the Jamar Williams for Chris Harris trade? Yeah... Martz isn't exactly known for utilizing TEs, but come on, Olsen was the Bears best hands guy. CHI needs WRs bad status. I'm pissed that Joseph just signed with the Texans... leaves it up to Jets vs Niners for Asomugha. Team wise Jets have the advantage, Niners got the $$$ advantage + home field, but if Nnamdi really cared about homefield/$$$ I'm sure Al Davis could overpay for him again. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On July 29 2011 09:47 nemY wrote: Yeah... Martz isn't exactly known for utilizing TEs, but come on, Olsen was the Bears best hands guy. CHI needs WRs bad status. I'm pissed that Joseph just signed with the Texans... leaves it up to Jets vs Niners for Asomugha. Team wise Jets have the advantage, Niners got the $$$ advantage + home field, but if Nnamdi really cared about homefield/$$$ I'm sure Al Davis could overpay for him again. Exactly. Let's face it, Chicago wasn't about to go out and grab a big name WR like Sidney Rice or Vincent Jackson. Which means Olsen is their best target. So they trade him? I'm also pissed Joseph went to Houston. I was really hoping that Chicago would grab him and send Jennings packing. No way will they make a play for Asomugha. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 29 2011 00:35 BloodNinja wrote: My Haynesworth prediction: he passes the physicals so the trade with New England goes through. However, at some point during camp Haynesworth acts up again and kicks Haynesworth to the curb. Haynesworth then resigns with Philly as his old line coach will be the last one to take a shot on him and I have no idea how he will do there. @ eshlow: Not sure if you are keeping up with the news. Rabach, Daniels, and Kemoeatu (reports on Roydell Williams being cut as well but unconfirmed). Stockley no longer coming to DC after he saw they signed 17 billion other WRs. Traded Haynesworth, McNabb, and Jarman. Kelen Clemmons/Josh Williams signed via FA. I am sure I am missing some other names in here. My thoughts, interesting that they cut Rabach. He was definitely declining in skill but with the QB situation as it I figured they would keep an old hand at C around as that would make the transition easier. The Jarmon trade makes no sense to me. Trading a young plyable DE who showed some great flashes for Jabbar Gaffney? The Dline is one of many weak points and adding another vet WR to the list of 50 others (ok not 50 but they have 13 currently signed) you are signing seems silly. Also not sure I like the Clemmons pickup either. They already have two youngish but not rookie QBs is there really a need for a 3rd? I figure you bring in the big name vet to lead or you bring in the project to sit on your bench while you build him. The rest of the moves make sense to me. Yeah, I know everything that's happened with us. Finally cut Rabach... he was good for at least 1 hold per game and allowed the pocket to collapse so much. He's was pretty much terrible for the past 2 years and i was hoping he would get cut last year... but I'll take the cut now. Jarmon is a 4-3 DE at 280 lbs and we had him bulk up to that weight (he was like 265 or something). He doesn't fit 3-4 scheme at all so we got rid of him which was good. He was probably gonna get cut anyway. Gaffney I'm not sure why thye traded for him but it's fine I guessif he can perform still. I personally would've rather had a draft pick and allowed our drafted wide receivers to develop..... but I guess since he's a good route runner with a big body they want him to be more of a possession receiver for us and probably help teach some of the rookies. Clemens pretty much got somewhat of a raw deal like Beck did (with the Jets as opposed to the Dolphins for Beck) so I guess they see some decent qualities in comparison to Schaub which would fit Kyle's offensive system. Shrug.... I was surprised as anyone but he's gonna be pretty much 3rd string QB so it doesn't matter much I'm guessing. We also signed some UDFA QB so I'm guessing he's gonna compete with that dude. Bowens signing I like... if only to spite the cowboys. Haha, but yeah, he seems to be a solid 3-4 DE and we need some help there so it's good. almost 100% we won't sign cullen jenkins now. | ||
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Juliette
United States6003 Posts
bush to the dolphins TT. hes why i became a saints fan. but thats not gonna change :D | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
On July 29 2011 10:03 nemY wrote: Maybe the bears grab TO haha. Whiney QB with an old diva flanker... idk I thought the bears biggest needs were OL and WRs, until they traded away their star TE lol. a te that couldn't block a cb | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 29 2011 10:29 Juliette wrote: wheres everyone getting updates from ;;. is espn covering all the trading? bush to the dolphins TT. hes why i became a saints fan. but thats not gonna change :D twitter, espn, fan message boards, wherever.. J Joseph gets 5 years, $48.75 million and $23.5 guaranteed, including $12.5 signing bonus, from Houston. Wow.... I guess Asomugha gonna get more than this... | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On July 29 2011 10:31 eshlow wrote: twitter, espn, fan message boards, wherever.. J Joseph gets 5 years, $48.75 million and $23.5 guaranteed, including $12.5 signing bonus, from Houston. Wow.... I guess Asomugha gonna get more than this... Holy fuckin front load That Ocho deal is a steal for the Pats... fucking hell. People can knock chad all day, but the dude is 100% football when he's on the field, and he can still play damn well. If even just one of Hanesworth or Ocho pans out, the Pats are dramatically better. That Jospeh deal means huge money for Asemowasdf;lj;lw Speaking of money, I heard it on ESPN on tv the other day and saw nothing else, but is Frank Gore holding out?? The bears have terrible management. I have no idea why they'd get rid of Olsen, who is a pretty damn good catching TE, probably their best skill guy on offense. I'm pretty surprised no one has taken a shot at Malcolm Floyd yet. Has a bit of an issue with injuries, but is an affordable big WR who at the very least could provide a nice change of pace on a smallish WR corps like in NYJ or the bears | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
That same TE led the team in receiving TDs for the last 3 years running. Also, apparently it is for a 3rd rounder straight up. About the same level as the 4th + backup I was expecting I guess. Terrible trade for a team built to win now. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/07/foot-injury-wil.html Crabtree out of training camp/preseason... AGAIN. Oh and the Niners signed David Akers... you know what this means guys... championship is all but wrapped up for us :/ | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 29 2011 10:28 eshlow wrote: Yeah, I know everything that's happened with us. Finally cut Rabach... he was good for at least 1 hold per game and allowed the pocket to collapse so much. He's was pretty much terrible for the past 2 years and i was hoping he would get cut last year... but I'll take the cut now. Jarmon is a 4-3 DE at 280 lbs and we had him bulk up to that weight (he was like 265 or something). He doesn't fit 3-4 scheme at all so we got rid of him which was good. He was probably gonna get cut anyway. Gaffney I'm not sure why thye traded for him but it's fine I guessif he can perform still. I personally would've rather had a draft pick and allowed our drafted wide receivers to develop..... but I guess since he's a good route runner with a big body they want him to be more of a possession receiver for us and probably help teach some of the rookies. Clemens pretty much got somewhat of a raw deal like Beck did (with the Jets as opposed to the Dolphins for Beck) so I guess they see some decent qualities in comparison to Schaub which would fit Kyle's offensive system. Shrug.... I was surprised as anyone but he's gonna be pretty much 3rd string QB so it doesn't matter much I'm guessing. We also signed some UDFA QB so I'm guessing he's gonna compete with that dude. Bowens signing I like... if only to spite the cowboys. Haha, but yeah, he seems to be a solid 3-4 DE and we need some help there so it's good. almost 100% we won't sign cullen jenkins now. The price tag for Bowen: 5 years/ $27.5 million. $12 million guaranteed. Not a chance the Cowboys were going to try and match that offer. Looks like they might try resign Hatcher now but he is visiting the Broncos and definitely was not the one the Cowboys were hoping to resign initially. I still think they go after Cullen Jenkins though. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
Seriously? He was their best offensive weapon outside of Forte. Hope you guys sign some receivers otherwise expect a lot of screens/swing outs to Forte. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On July 29 2011 11:07 Hawk wrote: Holy fuckin front load That Ocho deal is a steal for the Pats... fucking hell. People can knock chad all day, but the dude is 100% football when he's on the field, and he can still play damn well. If even just one of Hanesworth or Ocho pans out, the Pats are dramatically better. That Jospeh deal means huge money for Asemowasdf;lj;lw Speaking of money, I heard it on ESPN on tv the other day and saw nothing else, but is Frank Gore holding out?? The bears have terrible management. I have no idea why they'd get rid of Olsen, who is a pretty damn good catching TE, probably their best skill guy on offense. I'm pretty surprised no one has taken a shot at Malcolm Floyd yet. Has a bit of an issue with injuries, but is an affordable big WR who at the very least could provide a nice change of pace on a smallish WR corps like in NYJ or the bears Yeah, I hope the pats fail or Haynesworth is still a cancer up there.... one can hope. Frank Gore AND Chris Johnson are holding out.... CJ started his holdout after Frank Gore started his (for obvious reasons...). In related holdout news so is DeSean Jackson. Bears got rid of Olsen because Mike Martz is more a receivers guy over utilizing TEs in his system heh. Prolly still living out his greatest show on turf days than adapting his system to utilize Cutler's favorite target. I heard rumors they might go after Braylon Edwards?... Forte is gonna be doing a lot more work regardless. I am also curious why no one has been talking with Floyd. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On July 29 2011 09:40 Qatol wrote: I agree. It's such a weird move. Chicago turned their biggest position of strength into a weakness in less than a week by cutting or trading 3 of their 4 tight ends and replacing them with a backup from Pittsburgh. Meanwhile Carolina make out like bandits. Maybe it's payback for the Jamar Williams for Chris Harris trade? That was really depressing, that wasn't a football move (a starting safety and locker room leader for a backup LB? My God..), that was a salary dump; that was simultaneously proof that the lockout was pending (as I whined about in post #2 of this thread, Jerry R. could not have been more overt in commanding the franchise to batten down the hatches last off season) and that they had utterly no interest in competing last season*. Harris is such a great guy, on the radio, the locker room and the field.. having him made losing Minter more bearable (no pun intended). * Sometimes I just want to deck Michael Lombardi. He went on the BS report today and stated that the Panthers always make huge moves like re-signing all of their in demand FAs and as evidence of that last season Fox told him they were going to be better than anyone expected. OF COURSE THE FKING HEAD COACH TOLD HIM THAT, what the hell. The team was an 8-8 team too (just like ALL of Fox's teams have been.. Captain Don't Play To Win, so glad to be going in a new direction) aside from the fact that our QB situation was so bad that only another season of Jake Delhomme and the post-Warner trainwreck in Arizona could have been worse. It doesn't bother me that the Panthers have no national profile, but it does bother me when people talk out of their asses about a team they know dick about. All of the 'Lowly Panthers' talk based on the 2-14 season last year was hilarious given that we were one game away from home field advantage throughout the playoffs in '08, the season that was ruined when Delhomme's surgically repaired elbow finally gave up the ghost and torpedo'd us in the first round of the playoffs with the most unimaginably awful playoff performance anyone's seen in recent memory (AND HE KEPT PASSING IT, RAGHAGHAEHGAHGAHG). Inexplicably, the front office decided that since we made such a great run in '08, all we needed for '09 was the exact same roster (including Delhomme who'd just demonstrated that he was done as an NFL QB). Given the major changes that needed to take place and the fact that the lockout was pending with no guaranteed '11, '10 was a complete write off (for everyone but John Fox who really didn't want that 0-16 mark on his resume). Of course, I'm not saying anything about '11 being 'our year.' As far as I'm concerned our biggest problem last year (QB) is our biggest problem this year, although I suddenly find myself excited that Steve Smith will not be our one receiving threat this season. | ||
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Souljah
United States423 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 29 2011 12:44 eshlow wrote: Yeah, I hope the pats fail or Haynesworth is still a cancer up there.... one can hope. Frank Gore AND Chris Johnson are holding out.... CJ started his holdout after Frank Gore started his (for obvious reasons...). In related holdout news so is DeSean Jackson. Bears got rid of Olsen because Mike Martz is more a receivers guy over utilizing TEs in his system heh. Prolly still living out his greatest show on turf days than adapting his system to utilize Cutler's favorite target. I heard rumors they might go after Braylon Edwards?... Forte is gonna be doing a lot more work regardless. I am also curious why no one has been talking with Floyd. -Gore picked a bad time to holdout... I mean I get it, the guy's looking for one last big paycheck (and he currently makes roughly the same as Alex Smith), but who wants to sign a player coming off of season-ending surgery to a long term deal? -Chris Johnson? Well he deserves to get paid... he didn't live up to the hype of 09, but he's still a top 5 rb. -Getting rid of Olsen because Martz is incompetent is not a + move for the Bears. -The 49ers have been linked to Malcom Floyd. http://www.csnbayarea.com/07/28/11/Crabtree-heads-to-PUP-list-with-foot-inj/l_49ers.html?blockID=544507&feedID=5936 I question the 49ers atual "interest" in Floyd because it seems like the 49ers have been "linked" to pretty much every FA... and all they have to show for it so far is Akers. Also I question how good Floyd actually is... it's a lot easier to put up decent numbers when your QB is Phillip Rivers than when it's Alex Smith. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3804 Posts
I Hope I'm wrong and he is a massive flop there. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
He should hold out - it's unfortunate that that's the way football works with its salary structure, but Running Backs don't have a long shelf life. He deserves,,or at least, I hope he gets, the security of a contract before running out onto that field again. EDIT: Ooooooh...he's 28....that takes some luster off. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
I really can't believe there's people defending that bears move. That was terrible, and he was the team's best receiver by far. Hester and Knox should be no more than slot guys on any halfway decent team. It becomes more and more apparent each year that Martz's crazy ass shit only works if he has All pro talent at the positions he covets. I agree with Nemy about Floyd on the Niners. The team has enough trouble just getting it out to the current receivers. Floyd's a nice add, but only if he's going to an already established offense to add another wrinkle. For the price he'd command, he'd barely have opportunities out there | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
-Resigned Alex Smith -Overpaid for Ray McDonald -Signed David Akers ...... | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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Contagious
United States1319 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
wwwwaaaaah!?!? | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
On July 29 2011 13:01 Souljah wrote: Alot of rumors having asomugha (sp?) going to the jets.. fuckin piece of shit niners didn't do a fuckin thing this offseason but get worse..resigned Alex "the bust" Smith.. what a fuckin joke of a franchise. Looks like the Niners want to win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. | ||
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Kingkosi
United States1215 Posts
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:44 Southlight wrote: So the Pats traded their 2012 5th rounder and 2013 5th and 6th rounders to get Ochocinco and Aintworth? Good lord ~_~ The sad or funny (depending on who you root for) part is, once those two act out in New England, they'll probably have reasonably upped their value enough for the Pats to get 3rds and 4ths. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:44 Southlight wrote: So the Pats traded their 2012 5th rounder and 2013 5th and 6th rounders to get Ochocinco and Aintworth? Good lord ~_~ it's not even fair. For that price, why the hell would you not take a shot at either if you're a GM? I don't understand how they don't get outbid in spots like that | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 30 2011 05:37 Hawk wrote: it's not even fair. For that price, why the hell would you not take a shot at either if you're a GM? I don't understand how they don't get outbid in spots like that Like I said before, if you're a GM for an opposoing team and the Patriots come to make a trade with you, DON'T DO IT, YOU'RE GETTING RIPPED OFF. Even if Ochocinco puts up a stat line of 65/900/6 for the next 3 years and then retires or is released that's more than worth what the avg 5th + 6th rd picks are worth combined. On July 30 2011 04:32 yrba1 wrote: Looks like the Niners want to win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Nah, I think the Bengals are purposoly gunning for Andrew Luck. Why else would they keep their horrible headcoach, not trade away their semi-effective QB (who would rather retire than play for the team), employ an alcoholic at RB, let their all star DB go to FA, and trade away their waning star receiver for kibbles and bits? Have they done anything at all this FA (I'm not a bengals fan)? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
EDIT: Here we go http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/status/97062587589599232 | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
Nnamdi deal: 5 yrs, 60 million, 25m gtd. per Adam Schefter twitter | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:29 DannyJ wrote: A year ago i was an Eagles fan all excited about having a QB that might be able to actually throw a football instead of run around like a moron. Now i see Mike Vick and Vince Young behind center. wwwwaaaaah!?!? Did you not watch last season or something? Vick lit it up both passing and running last year. Some of his mid-range to deep throws last season were just beautiful to watch. The stats speak for themselves: 233 att - 372 completions = 62.6% completion, for just over 3k yards, and 21 TD to 6 INT. All in 12 games. I certainly wouldn't be complaining about my QB situation if I was an Eagles fan. On Vince Young, if anyone can rebuild him into a decent QB its Andy Reid. I doubt he will be a starter again (at least not for the Eagles), but he could become a serviceable backup and possible trade bait in the future. On July 30 2011 04:42 Kingkosi wrote: Roy Williams to the Bears! Dont be too excited. Williams is horribly overrated. I was disappointed when the Cowboys traded for him and he lived up to the disappointment pretty much. He jsut never seemed to get any separation from the secondary and played much smaller than his actual size. On July 30 2011 07:18 nemY wrote: It's the Eagles Nnamdi deal: 5 yrs, 60 million, 25m gtd. per Adam Schefter twitter Jesus that is gonna be hell of a secondary Commartie and Nnamdi. This should a fun season to watch in the NFC East. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 30 2011 07:26 DannyJ wrote: Ok the Eagles just go ridiculously good. Babin, nnamdi and rodgers-cromartie added to the D? They still have a hole to fill at MLB I hear. But that defense just got some serious upgrades. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 30 2011 07:30 turamn wrote: That's seriously ridiculous...they already have an insane blitz package....adding two top of the line ( see the best ) corners will help that an insane amount. Watch the fuck out, NFC east. I feel bad for the Qb's there esp whatever sad piece of garbage ends up starting in washington The CB/WR battles are going to really fun to watch. Nicks/Manningham from the Giants and Austin/Bryant from the Cowboys. On July 30 2011 07:32 nemY wrote: DeSean Jackson must be stoked the Eagles are spending all of this money... on people other than him. When does his contract expire? If its next season the Eagles could have issues in keeping him around. On July 30 2011 07:34 turamn wrote: If Jackson wants to be a bitch, after seeing that they used the money to snag Namdi, let him. They just got insanely good and if he can't wait another year to get paid...well...come on man Gotta take care of #1 first. Especially in a sport where the average career is 3 years. One shot to the knees and it could be game over. This is especially true if you are finesse/speed player. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
EDIT: @BN Totally understand that shit, but if I'm him, I know someones gonna pay me and if they can use that money to make you favorites in the division and possibly the conference, then why not let them | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 30 2011 07:34 BloodNinja wrote: The CB/WR battles are going to really fun to watch. Nicks/Manningham from the Giants and Austin/Bryant from the Cowboys. When does his contract expire? If its next season the Eagles could have issues in keeping him around. Gotta take care of #1 first. Especially in a sport where the average career is 3 years. One shot to the knees and it could be game over. DJax is in the last year of his rookie contract For Jackson, the frustration has been evident since the beginning of training camp last year. He'll enter the final year of his rookie contract set to make $565,000, and QB Michael Vick intimated Tuesday that Jackson might not be at training camp, saying, "DeSean just has some things to think about and some decisions to make that only himself can make." http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/30913604 Edit: And let's face it, it's not like he doesn't deserve to be paid. The guy is a pretty talented WR. Maybe not for the pay he'll be demanding (his size + concussion history work against him), but come on, he's a game changer. A player defenses have to plan around. A beast on Special Teams (NY Giants fans remember this very well). He's getting paid next to nothing for what he produces on the field... off the field he's a bit of an idiot though. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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Ikari
United States176 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
just glad i changed my avatar from him to rainbow sheep on another forum last month | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 30 2011 07:42 slyboogie wrote: I don't get it...where does Cromartie play? Do the Eagles run Cover-2? Are they shifting him to free safety or just using him like a nickle? Im not sure what Philly is going play. I am pretty sure they have a new D Coordinator (Juan Castillo). He was their offensive line coach before this season. Last time he coached defense was in 1989 for a Texas highschool. (Full bio: http://legacy.philadelphiaeagles.com/eagles_files/html/coach_castillo_1.html ) So this could be interesting to watch. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 30 2011 07:48 turamn wrote: Maybe they will trade Samuel? I honestly think Samuel moves to Nickle back or Safety (or traded). They just traded for one CB and signed another via FA. You don't make those moves if you don't believe either of those players wont be a starter for your team. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
Hope we go more 2 TE sets and run the ball a lot (probably will since we will likely be starting Beck...) | ||
TaylorGangOrDie
United States104 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
i expected the eagles at the beginning of the off-season, cool to see it happen. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/29/2303697/morgan-trent-returns-bengals-rescind-waiving-of-the-cornerback | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On July 30 2011 10:00 nemY wrote: Seriously the bengals waived somebody and then "took it back" an hour later... http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/29/2303697/morgan-trent-returns-bengals-rescind-waiving-of-the-cornerback lol! | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 30 2011 09:31 d_so wrote: i never understood the fascination with corners. i would rather have a decent corner with a gangbuster defensive line than an 'elite' corner with a decent defensive line. Cornerbacks usually make their money off reputation, which they ride until they slowly transition to safety. See: Charles Woodson I agree with you in 99% of the time. There are a few exceptions for me though; 1) a player like Champ Bailey or 2) a defense like the Eagles had under Jim Johnson. For 1 its a proven corner who was a shutdown corner wherever they went and they adjusted. For 2, Jim Johnson favored a heavy zone blitz / pressure scheme that depended on great play making corners. While the corners played zone they needed to be opportunistic (the anti Carlos Rogers [NFC East reference]) and they needed to be comfortable in a number of zones since a safety blitz could be called at any time. This all being said, a good cover CB is not always a good zone CB (see Hall, Deangelo in Oakland). However, the truly elites CB should be able to do both or a coordinator can recognize a special talent and use some hybrid coverage schemes. Edit - That being said, its seems easier and cheaper to build a ridiculously dominate DLine as opposed to a secondary and a direction I would take if I could find a way to generate the pressure up front. Cincy owner (Mike Brown?) showing his inept as always leadership from the owner's box. | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On July 30 2011 09:40 nemY wrote: Not gonna lie, whenever I feel bad about how the 49ers offseason is going I go check out the Bengals forums. Their key acquisition so far is Bruce Gradowski. You know what's sad is that's not the worst QB news; just think how bad Dolphin and Seahawk fans are feeling right now. Simmons had the tweet of the day: sportsguy33 Bill Simmons Who's breaking the news to Brandon Marshall that his 2011 QB's are Matt Moore & Chad Henne? Can this moment be televised? | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 30 2011 12:32 Quesa wrote: You know what's sad is that's not the worst QB news; just think how bad Dolphin and Seahawk fans are feeling right now. Simmons had the tweet of the day: sportsguy33 Bill Simmons Who's breaking the news to Brandon Marshall that his 2011 QB's are Matt Moore & Chad Henne? Can this moment be televised? http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/sports/Bush__I_Want_to_Be_a_Feature_Back_Miami-126425493.html Yeah Reggie Bush wants to be their featured back... hopefully the Phins sign Marion Barber or something. Their HC is going to be fired by Game 8 I think... | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On July 30 2011 12:57 nemY wrote: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/sports/Bush__I_Want_to_Be_a_Feature_Back_Miami-126425493.html Yeah Reggie Bush wants to be their featured back... hopefully the Phins sign Marion Barber or something. Their HC is going to be fired by Game 8 I think... God help you if you think Marion Barber is the answer to your RB issues. The Cowboys completely ran him into the ground and he has not been the same since. I would take my chances on Reggie Bush in a heartbeat over Marion Barber. This coming from a life-long Cowboys fan and Bush doubter. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
Also, I agree with that Marion barber assessment. I had no clue why you guys signed him to that big contract in Dallas in the first place. He was always fairly mediocre and he never had to carry the load before you guys gave him the contract. 50 mil deal when he never got a 1000 yard season.... That said, Bush will probably break down in like week 6 or 7 as a feature back. Better hope they do a lot of swing out plays or something. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On July 30 2011 15:23 BloodNinja wrote: God help you if you think Marion Barber is the answer to your RB issues. The Cowboys completely ran him into the ground and he has not been the same since. I would take my chances on Reggie Bush in a heartbeat over Marion Barber. This coming from a life-long Cowboys fan and Bush doubter. Bush couldn't hack it running in NO, with a much better line, an All Pro QB to keep guys out of the box, Colston and Shockey (a good blocker) drawing heat elseqwhere. There is no way he does anything running the ball in Miami. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 30 2011 15:23 BloodNinja wrote: God help you if you think Marion Barber is the answer to your RB issues. The Cowboys completely ran him into the ground and he has not been the same since. I would take my chances on Reggie Bush in a heartbeat over Marion Barber. This coming from a life-long Cowboys fan and Bush doubter. With Chad Henne/Matt Moore at starting QB and Reggie Bush at starting RB? They're going to need Barber or some sort of bruiser. Either way the Dolphins are screwed... and they're not my team. Not like 49ers have been any better this off season. Seriously. I've seen every team in the NFC Worst add players to get better, but it seems as if the 49ers are going for addition by subtraction. http://www.csnbayarea.com/07/30/11/Harbaugh-49ers-working-hard-at-free-agen/landing_maiocco_v3.html?blockID=544791&feedID=5936 I'm glad they're talking to the the agents of all these players, but umm... can they sign somebody? | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Not a groundbreaking offseason, but I'm content. preseason champions never win much, anyhow. edit-- oh, and to the people who preference D-line over corners: D-linemen and edge rushing OLBs have a very obvious and visible effect on the field, so it's easy to just assume they're much better at creating a solid defense, but most truly great defenses come down to schemes, and almost all defensive schemes start with where you're putting your corners. There's a reason smart minded defensive coaches like Rex Ryan and Sean Payton (atleast for pass d) live on the motto of "You can never have too many good cornerbacks." There's nothing wrong with having can opener front sevens -- it's worked for the steelers for decades -- but there's similar value in cornerbacks. And, frankly, you're probably gonna have to go through some excellent QBs if you plan on winning a superbowl, and most of the top QBs do their work despite dlinemen coming for them. Ask Tom Brady and Peyton Manning what happened when they ran into the Jets exemplary backfield and scheme work, despite having a very tepid front 7. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
rofl kluwe is a hero | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On July 31 2011 01:02 GTR wrote: http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Kluwe-McNabb-Agree-To-Terms-On-No-5/d276a4b4-fdee-47cb-8ea7-d3761ea53e3a rofl kluwe is a hero Wow, that is fanTASTIC, rotfl. I'm so glad Childress and Favre are gone, I didn't like hating the Vikings. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On July 31 2011 00:46 nemY wrote: With Chad Henne/Matt Moore at starting QB and Reggie Bush at starting RB? They're going to need Barber or some sort of bruiser. Either way the Dolphins are screwed... and they're not my team. Not like 49ers have been any better this off season. Seriously. I've seen every team in the NFC Worst add players to get better, but it seems as if the 49ers are going for addition by subtraction. http://www.csnbayarea.com/07/30/11/Harbaugh-49ers-working-hard-at-free-agen/landing_maiocco_v3.html?blockID=544791&feedID=5936 I'm glad they're talking to the the agents of all these players, but umm... can they sign somebody? Reading this made me literally lol 49ERS FREE AGENCY Additions: K David Akers (Eagles). Subtractions: C David Baas (Giants), CB Nate Clements (released), LB Takeo Spikes (Chargers), QB David Carr (released), C Eric Heitmann (released/failed physical), K Joe Nedney (released-failed physical/announced retirement). Re-signings: QB Alex Smith (UFA), DE Ray McDonald (UFA), C/G Tony Wragge (UFA), DB C.J. Spillman (EFA). Unsigned free agents: NT Aubrayo Franklin, S Dashon Goldson, OLB Manny Lawson, OT Barry Sims, RB Brian Westbrook, DE Demetric Evans, CB Will James, QB Troy Smith, K Jeff Reed. Well, I guess it could be worse. We could be the Bucs paying $3m + /year to a punter who isnt even good Really can't believe they're basically gonna not fill that void at CB though. I'm not particularly keen on overpaying Cromartie or Carlos Rodgers to be the top dog when they're really better suited to the second position | ||
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kakaman
United States1576 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On July 31 2011 01:11 Hawk wrote: Reading this made me literally lol 49ERS FREE AGENCY Additions: K David Akers (Eagles). Subtractions: C David Baas (Giants), CB Nate Clements (released), LB Takeo Spikes (Chargers), QB David Carr (released), C Eric Heitmann (released/failed physical), K Joe Nedney (released-failed physical/announced retirement). Re-signings: QB Alex Smith (UFA), DE Ray McDonald (UFA), C/G Tony Wragge (UFA), DB C.J. Spillman (EFA). Unsigned free agents: NT Aubrayo Franklin, S Dashon Goldson, OLB Manny Lawson, OT Barry Sims, RB Brian Westbrook, DE Demetric Evans, CB Will James, QB Troy Smith, K Jeff Reed. Well, I guess it could be worse. We could be the Bucs paying $3m + /year to a punter who isnt even good Really can't believe they're basically gonna not fill that void at CB though. I'm not particularly keen on overpaying Cromartie or Carlos Rodgers to be the top dog when they're really better suited to the second position The thing is the Bucs don't have the gaping holes on their roster like the 49ers do. Seriously our top WRs going into training camp are Josh Morgan and Ted Ginn Jr. That's a 6th rd draft pick and a return specialist who was traded for a 5th rd draft pick. Don't even get me started on our secondary. Anyways of our unsigned FAs I think we need to bring back Goldson, Lawson, Sims, Evans, and maybe Will James? (I have no idea who he is, but we need the depth). Oh yeah, bring back Clements at a reduced price pretty pretty please. Go out and bring in a TO or maybe even Randy Moss because they will be dirt cheap (I'm not for bringing in a overpaid #2 receiver, they usually never pan out, I'd rather have a veteran stopgap at this point), get some depth on the DLine, OLine and please sign ONE above-average CB. GOD DAMN IT PLEASE!!! | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On July 31 2011 03:08 slyboogie wrote: They'd probably like to bring back Clement(who is basically, THE average cornerback) but after seeing the money that Joseph and Asomugha got, he'll probably try the free market. There's so much need out there - Detroit, especially, could use a D-back. Detroit's policy: If we can cover for more than 2 seconds one of our D-line will be on your QB | ||
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Farkinator
United States283 Posts
On July 30 2011 15:23 BloodNinja wrote: God help you if you think Marion Barber is the answer to your RB issues. The Cowboys completely ran him into the ground and he has not been the same since. I would take my chances on Reggie Bush in a heartbeat over Marion Barber. This coming from a life-long Cowboys fan and Bush doubter. Meh; Bush is actually rather terrible. As a long-time Saints fan, he was more trouble than he was worth. He had 1 good game in recent memory and I think that was the game against the Arizona Cardinals 2 years ago in the Saint's super bowl season. What happened to Ronnie Brown? Is he gone? (Sorry haven't been really keeping up with that kind of stuff). I'm really just happy for the Saints because we got Mark Ingram. Hopefully he won't be nearly as disappointing as Bush was (I have faith; Bama is an SEC school.) And in other news, I appreciate the efforts the Texans are making to improve their secondary. I just hope that our offense can start off the year like they did last year. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On July 31 2011 02:49 nemY wrote: The thing is the Bucs don't have the gaping holes on their roster like the 49ers do. Seriously our top WRs going into training camp are Josh Morgan and Ted Ginn Jr. That's a 6th rd draft pick and a return specialist who was traded for a 5th rd draft pick. Don't even get me started on our secondary. Anyways of our unsigned FAs I think we need to bring back Goldson, Lawson, Sims, Evans, and maybe Will James? (I have no idea who he is, but we need the depth). Oh yeah, bring back Clements at a reduced price pretty pretty please. Go out and bring in a TO or maybe even Randy Moss because they will be dirt cheap (I'm not for bringing in a overpaid #2 receiver, they usually never pan out, I'd rather have a veteran stopgap at this point), get some depth on the DLine, OLine and please sign ONE above-average CB. GOD DAMN IT PLEASE!!! I like Josh Morgan a lot even though I thnk there's a lot better #2s out there, but DB is much more of a concern. Like you said, Shawntee Spencer is coming in at the #1 and he is average at best. I dont want him as aything more thank a nickel back | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On July 31 2011 06:29 Farkinator wrote: Meh; Bush is actually rather terrible. As a long-time Saints fan, he was more trouble than he was worth. He had 1 good game in recent memory and I think that was the game against the Arizona Cardinals 2 years ago in the Saint's super bowl season. What happened to Ronnie Brown? Is he gone? (Sorry haven't been really keeping up with that kind of stuff). I'm really just happy for the Saints because we got Mark Ingram. Hopefully he won't be nearly as disappointing as Bush was (I have faith; Bama is an SEC school.) And in other news, I appreciate the efforts the Texans are making to improve their secondary. I just hope that our offense can start off the year like they did last year. The only trouble Bush was was his contract. He wasn't worth the money we were giving him, but you're absolutely daft if you think he somehow detracted from the team. He was the leading running back in all receiving categories besides touchdowns (which brees uses TEs for on short yardage anyhow) ever since he was drafted. This wasn't worth such a high price and draft pick (especially when in the same draft we got Colston, Evans, and Harper, lol), but he has long been an important and useful part of our offense. If he wasn't, we wouldn't have instantly signed sproles to act as a worse, but more affordable, replacement for him. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
Coming into the league, no one believed he would be a 25 carry, between the tackles HB; that's not what he was in college. They may have expected a bit more from the running game, but that's irrelevant considering his contributions in other areas of the game. His stats may not have reflected his importance, but he was probably the greatest "decoy" in the game. Other guys got open because Reggie was on the field, and a safety had to give him attention. If a LB was covering him, the LB got burned 9/10 times. Reggie Bush is largely responsible for the variety that Sean Payton was able to add to the offense. All that said, he wasn't worth $16M or whatever he was scheduled to get paid. He's more of a $5M guy like he is in Miami. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 01 2011 05:03 Slaughter wrote: Jets managed to snag Plaxico. What does everything think of that? 3 million for 1 year? I think it's fine. He's tall and had good hands. Dunno why they guaranteed all of the money but he was, supposedly, in some demand. | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On August 01 2011 00:34 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: You guys are vastly underestimating the importance of Reggie Bush to the New Orleans offense.+ Show Spoiler + He's a guy that you have to pay attention to when he's on the field. Everyone on the defense has eyes on the guy when he's on the field, because he's such a threat once he gets the ball. Coming into the league, no one believed he would be a 25 carry, between the tackles HB; that's not what he was in college. They may have expected a bit more from the running game, but that's irrelevant considering his contributions in other areas of the game. His stats may not have reflected his importance, but he was probably the greatest "decoy" in the game. Other guys got open because Reggie was on the field, and a safety had to give him attention. If a LB was covering him, the LB got burned 9/10 times. Reggie Bush is largely responsible for the variety that Sean Payton was able to add to the offense. All that said, he wasn't worth $16M or whatever he was scheduled to get paid. He's more of a $5M guy like he is in Miami. I agree with just about all of that (there were a lot of people who felt like he was going to be able to carry the rock 30+ times a game though, I certainly thought he'd be better between the tackles). As you say, the Saints were screwed with his huge cap number; 5 mil is far more palatable. I might turn him into a slot WR and put him into motion every play, especially if I ran a lot of obnoxious wildcat plays. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 01 2011 07:14 DannyJ wrote: What's the deal with Edwards? Did Plaxico essentially replace him? I think Braylon's a free agent and wanted to get "market value" for his talent. The Jets weren't particularly interested in resigning him without a discount and the pursuit of Nnamdi Asomugha meant that the Jets weren't going to spend money until that was resolved. Plaxico does replace Edwards but he is definitely older, though the production loss is probably marginal? I don't think much of Edwards, so we'll see. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
That all being said, I will can take solace in the fact the Eagles have 2 years tops to make said run. I cannot believe they can keep all those names under the cap for more than 2 years ( maybe even 1 year depending on success). | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On August 01 2011 12:50 BloodNinja wrote: The Eagles brought in Cullen Jenkins as well (for roughly $25 million). Are you fucking kidding me? How much money did they have to burn? I really HATE saying this as a Cowboys fan, but the Eagles have put themselves into NFC Superbowl contender (front-runner?) status. While I have no clue about what scheme they will be running (new D Coordinator), the amount of talent just on that side of the ball is simply sickening and would be capable of making a bland, vanilla defense look innovative. That all being said, I will can take solace in the fact the Eagles have 2 years tops to make said run. I cannot believe they can keep all those names under the cap for more than 2 years ( maybe even 1 year depending on success). In my opinion, a bomb free agency season does not necessarily equate to success. Football is a weird game; individual stars are usually a product of team chemistry and schemes as much as individual success. The last time I remember a team went on a free agency binge like this was snyder's redskins back in 2002? 2003? And that didn't work out so well. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 01 2011 14:06 d_so wrote: In my opinion, a bomb free agency season does not necessarily equate to success. Football is a weird game; individual stars are usually a product of team chemistry and schemes as much as individual success. The last time I remember a team went on a free agency binge like this was snyder's redskins back in 2002? 2003? And that didn't work out so well. Yeah the Eagles FO are playing like it's Madden right now, but to be fair the Jets and Patriots have had success bringing in FAs/trades year-after-year... just never on this level. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 01 2011 14:06 d_so wrote: In my opinion, a bomb free agency season does not necessarily equate to success. Football is a weird game; individual stars are usually a product of team chemistry and schemes as much as individual success. The last time I remember a team went on a free agency binge like this was snyder's redskins back in 2002? 2003? And that didn't work out so well. Well yeah, it really all boils down to the scheme, defensively. Who knows what we will get from the new coordinator. He definitely has a good group of guys, i expect the D to do well. I'm not sure really how much chemistry will have to do with it though, considering the FAs they got. Nnamdi will be Nnamdi out there. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 01 2011 14:06 d_so wrote: In my opinion, a bomb free agency season does not necessarily equate to success. Football is a weird game; individual stars are usually a product of team chemistry and schemes as much as individual success. The last time I remember a team went on a free agency binge like this was snyder's redskins back in 2002? 2003? And that didn't work out so well. Are you really comparing the FA signings of the Eagles this year to the absolutely terrible FA signing of the Redskins under the Cerato/Snyder regime? Beyond the fact the fact Cerato and Snyder might be the worst talent evaluators in the NFL, the players they signed the big names they signed during those years ALL had massive red flags that the front office ignored. Which would be a stark contrast to the FA that the Eagles picked up this year. That all being said you may have your years off by a few. Bruce Smith/ Jeff George/ Deion Sanders was 2000. 2002 had Trotter. 2003 was the Jet-Skins. While 2002/2003 were massive busts I doubt anyone outside the koolaid drinking homers thought that the 2002/2003 FA classes were going to significantly improve the Skins to Superbowl material (esp under the Fun'n'Gun with Spurrier). Any signings in 2004 being highly regarding came solely from the Joe Gibbs factor. That being the fact that if Joe Gibbs (the man who won 3 Super Bowls for the Redskins) liked a player, then that player would help lead the Skins to Superbowl #4 end of story. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On August 01 2011 14:21 nemY wrote: Yeah the Eagles FO are playing like it's Madden right now, but to be fair the Jets and Patriots have had success bringing in FAs/trades year-after-year... just never on this level. what the patriots did is different though. They had a system and then enveloped a newcomer into their system, warts and all. Eagles are making wholesale changes based on who they believe to be star talent, but i ono if that really works for football. Many stars a product of the system they're in; remove them from their system and they become a bit lackluster. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On August 01 2011 16:32 BloodNinja wrote: Are you really comparing the FA signings of the Eagles this year to the absolutely terrible FA signing of the Redskins under the Cerato/Snyder regime? Beyond the fact the fact Cerato and Snyder might be the worst talent evaluators in the NFL, the players they signed the big names they signed during those years ALL had massive red flags that the front office ignored. Which would be a stark contrast to the FA that the Eagles picked up this year. That all being said you may have your years off by a few. Bruce Smith/ Jeff George/ Deion Sanders was 2000. 2002 had Trotter. 2003 was the Jet-Skins. While 2002/2003 were massive busts I doubt anyone outside the koolaid drinking homers thought that the 2002/2003 FA classes were going to significantly improve the Skins to Superbowl material (esp under the Fun'n'Gun with Spurrier). Any signings in 2004 being highly regarding came solely from the Joe Gibbs factor. That being the fact that if Joe Gibbs (the man who won 3 Super Bowls for the Redskins) liked a player, then that player would help lead the Skins to Superbowl #4 end of story. your right, my years are off. ANd yeah, it's easy to call those signings terrible in retrospect, but at the time a lot of major publications (SI, The Sporting News) were expecting great things. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 01 2011 16:42 d_so wrote: what the patriots did is different though. They had a system and then enveloped a newcomer into their system, warts and all. Eagles are making wholesale changes based on who they believe to be star talent, but i ono if that really works for football. Many stars a product of the system they're in; remove them from their system and they become a bit lackluster. How are the Eagles making wholesale changes? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 01 2011 15:01 Southlight wrote: The Eagles have generally been a stingy bunch, so the fact that they gambled on this many free agents sort of says something about either their confidence in these players or Andy Reid's standing in the organization. I'd be fucking pissed if I were mcnabb because they didn't open the checkbook like that during his decade there. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 01 2011 16:47 d_so wrote: your right, my years are off. ANd yeah, it's easy to call those signings terrible in retrospect, but at the time a lot of major publications (SI, The Sporting News) were expecting great things. Even in the article you linked, here is the final line when discussing expectations for the 2000 season: "What the Redskins largely have is a 1996 Pro Bowl team. It remains to be seen if this latter-day Over the Hill Gang can be a top-flight team." There are other sections of that article that also spend signifcant time tempering FA expections (like the 3 paragraphs on how Deion will likely be a bust due to injuries or discussing how signing Jeff George over the protest of the coach may not be the best idea). Like I said, outside the kool-aid drinkers no one expected them to be serious contenders. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
On August 02 2011 01:58 turamn wrote: Randy Moss retiring - per Schefter My friend (Pats fan) immediately goes ha stupid idiot should've kept his mouth shut | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 02 2011 01:58 turamn wrote: Randy Moss retiring - per Schefter Also of note - Umenyiora is allowed to look for a trade now. Edit - Interesting trade I heard earlier that I don't think made it to the thread. Vonnie Holliday and a pick (cant remember what but I think its conditional) to Arizona for Tim Hightower to the Skins. Edit #2 - Report around DC is that Beck is REALLY struggling throwing the deep ball. Should amke for good radio in the DC area. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3804 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/207743/505516.jpg) | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
Our new GM comes out and says right before FA we are not going to be big players and then targets Asomugha when FA starts. After that fails he starts going after everybody... yet gets nobody. He says he and Harbaugh are sticking to their "plan"... come on man! This sucks as a niners fan, but hopefully we draft well and will contend for the West... in 2 years. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
It's not as if these 2nd and third WRs are that good on most teams. It's that most teams that find success spreading it around like that have really fucking good QBs (pats, Colts) and thrive on exploiting the defenses that are put out there. They're not going head to head in these engagements and ccoming out on top/ | ||
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
On July 31 2011 03:26 DusTerr wrote: Detroit's policy: If we can cover for more than 2 seconds one of our D-line will be on your QB The Eric Wright signing was at least pretty decent. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Peter King is a fat shit, if you all didn't know that. Moss is a first ballot HOFer. Anyone who even questions his hall worthiness is out of their damn mind. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 03 2011 04:15 Hawk wrote: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/08/02/mail/ Peter King is a fat shit, if you all didn't know that. Moss is a first ballot HOFer. Anyone who even questions his hall worthiness is out of their damn mind. That's just King on his soapbox. Every old timer sports writer thinks that they have some right to force their opinions as a grand narrative or something. But yeah, Peter King is a fat dummy, in this case. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
however this is the issue: "Dogging it in Oakland is a big one. The whole issue of "being a distraction,'' or whatever acting like a selfish kid should be called, is something else, but I've never really been clear about whether we should consider that even remotely, seeing that we're asked to consider a player's on-field performance only." The dude put up 60-1000-8 in his first year and then had a 550yd follow up season. That's commendable with that surrounding cast of hacks they had those two seasons. Nevermind the fact that a year of crappy play becomes totally irrelevant when it's sandwiched between 12 other years of straight dominance. King whole 'being a distraction' bit makes me want to kick him in his fat head | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On August 01 2011 16:32 BloodNinja wrote: Are you really comparing the FA signings of the Eagles this year to the absolutely terrible FA signing of the Redskins under the Cerato/Snyder regime? Beyond the fact the fact Cerato and Snyder might be the worst talent evaluators in the NFL, the players they signed the big names they signed during those years ALL had massive red flags that the front office ignored. Which would be a stark contrast to the FA that the Eagles picked up this year. That all being said you may have your years off by a few. Bruce Smith/ Jeff George/ Deion Sanders was 2000. 2002 had Trotter. 2003 was the Jet-Skins. While 2002/2003 were massive busts I doubt anyone outside the koolaid drinking homers thought that the 2002/2003 FA classes were going to significantly improve the Skins to Superbowl material (esp under the Fun'n'Gun with Spurrier). Any signings in 2004 being highly regarding came solely from the Joe Gibbs factor. That being the fact that if Joe Gibbs (the man who won 3 Super Bowls for the Redskins) liked a player, then that player would help lead the Skins to Superbowl #4 end of story. Having suffered through all of those I hope the Eagles will bomb out. Cullen Jenkins does have injury history,... Babin does have a bit of an injury history too. I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately. We'll see how their new D-coordinator does as well. And if Vick can stay injury free...... Vince young coming in is like a poor man versino of Vick so if teams can figure them out like they started to do last year then Young will probably do poorly especially in a new system. edit: lol BREAKING NEWS: #Eagles have agreed to terms with former Dolphins RB Ronnie Brown on a one-year deal. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On August 03 2011 03:35 Hawk wrote: Asante Samuel has already been bitchin about the moves because he pretty much got moved to nickel back despite being a top 5 corner in the league or so. The d coord was apparently stressing how important it is for teams to have three or even four good corners with the way offenses are going these days, but I really just am not seeing it. It's not as if these 2nd and third WRs are that good on most teams. It's that most teams that find success spreading it around like that have really fucking good QBs (pats, Colts) and thrive on exploiting the defenses that are put out there. They're not going head to head in these engagements and ccoming out on top/ Don't understand why. He's way better than Rodgers-Cromartie. Makes more sense to move DRC to nickel since he's more limited and more prone to being burned while gambling. Though Asante does gamble a lot, too. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately. We'll see how their new D-coordinator does as well. And if Vick can stay injury free...... Vince young coming in is like a poor man versino of Vick so if teams can figure them out like they started to do last year then Young will probably do poorly especially in a new system. edit: lol BREAKING NEWS: #Eagles have agreed to terms with former Dolphins RB Ronnie Brown on a one-year deal. That's crazy. Asomugha is amazing. He is, without a doubt, one of the top 10 football players in the NFL. There is a huge marginal difference between lining up Asomugha and lining up good but not great corners, like Brandon Flowers or Vontae Davis. Could Nnamdi suddenly hit a wall athletically? Yeah, I suppose that's possible, but that's possible for any player in the NFL. Would you be saying the same thing if the signing had been Andre Johnson or Demarcus Ware? | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
On August 03 2011 06:01 andrewlt wrote: Don't understand why. He's way better than Rodgers-Cromartie. Makes more sense to move DRC to nickel since he's more limited and more prone to being burned while gambling. Though Asante does gamble a lot, too. I dun think he's bitching about the moves so much as he's bitching about not knowing if they're replacing him or not. | ||
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justalex
United States122 Posts
On August 03 2011 05:44 eshlow wrote: Also, as much as I don't like Randy Moss all that much he should be a sure fire HOFer. 5th in yds and 2td in TDs to Rice... completely dominated games in his prime. Riddle me this. Assuming Moss makes it in, what team does he go in as? Patriot, where he won his super bowls and was part of a record setting offense, or Vikings where he exploded onto the NFL and was part of a different record setting offense? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 03 2011 06:38 justalex wrote: Riddle me this. Assuming Moss makes it in, what team does he go in as? Patriot, where he won his super bowls and was part of a record setting offense, or Vikings where he exploded onto the NFL and was part of a different record setting offense? Vikes makes sense, but he loves him some Bill Belly. Isn't it up to the player? | ||
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
fuck Seattle has decimated their roster this offseason, I guess carroll hoping to be good in 3 years from now as whitehurst or jackson are not real qbs. Then again maybe we get to the second round with a losing record again. | ||
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
On August 03 2011 06:38 justalex wrote: Riddle me this. Assuming Moss makes it in, what team does he go in as? Patriot, where he won his super bowls and was part of a record setting offense, or Vikings where he exploded onto the NFL and was part of a different record setting offense? If only he ever won a superbowl with the patriots... Only sb he has been in was the loss to the giants. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Wes Welker also has people thinking he has rings. | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
On August 03 2011 06:51 bigjenk wrote: fuck Seattle has decimated their roster this offseason, I guess carroll hoping to be good in 3 years from now as whitehurst or jackson are not real qbs. Then again maybe we get to the second round with a losing record again.The Seahawks have added more talent then they lost. They just signed Zach Miller, who is a great TE. Sydney Rice is a great WR. Tatupu and Hasselbeck are not as good as they used to be and they haven't been able to get through a season without injury. Tavaris Jackson is not as bad as people make him out to be. They weren't going to be contenders with Hasselbeck, so to me it's better to get younger while adding talent. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
Ronnie Brown to the Eagles. And Seahawks sniped Zach Miller. | ||
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
On August 03 2011 05:43 eshlow wrote: I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately. Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
It's hard for me to follow stuff right now, so I'll be relying on this thread/the thread to come for a lot of info. :D | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 03 2011 07:00 Pangolin wrote: The Seahawks have added more talent then they lost. They just signed Zach Miller, who is a great TE. Sydney Rice is a great WR. Tatupu and Hasselbeck are not as good as they used to be and they haven't been able to get through a season without injury. Tavaris Jackson is not as bad as people make him out to be. They weren't going to be contenders with Hasselbeck, so to me it's better to get younger while adding talent. Yeah they won the division last year, but the NFC West blew last year. Hasslebeck pulls out an occasional great game (like vs the Saints), but for the most part he's done. TJ is not the answer though, I actually think they dropped off significantly in QB position and that's going to hurt them. I'm surprised they picked up Miller? Carlson always hit me as a pretty good TE, maybe not as good as Miller, but certainly a more than capable TE. Also... having two starting-caliber TEs cut in the same mold (the pass catching TE with subpar blocking skills) strikes me as odd. I like their RB-by-committee-scheme since it helps minimize the weaknesses of each player and keeps them fresh. I can't see them repeating division winner unless Bradford regresses in his 2nd year. | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On August 03 2011 12:59 yrba1 wrote: Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT. Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad. Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed. Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme. So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement? Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 03 2011 15:07 d_so wrote: Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad. Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed. Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme. So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement? Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game. No no no. Asomugha does not have crazy interception numbers - nobody throws the ball at him, there is no ball to intercept. Nate Clement is an average cornerback, he was on the Bills and he was in San Francisco; everyone knew the Niners overpaid. Just because you can't tell that Asomugha is elite doesn't mean that corner backs are suddenly low impact or that corner back defense is "subjective." It's easy to see that Calvin Johnson is an almost perfect wide receiver. It's easy to see that Clay Matthews is a terror off the edges but not a fabulous cover linebacker. It's easy to see that Sam Bradford has supreme arm strength and good accuracy. Corner, Tackle, Fullback, Nose Tackle...these guys you have to watch for the whole game to really see. They don't have the ball in their hands, plays rarely develop around them but they are as crucial as Tailbacks, Outside Linebackers and Defensive Ends. | ||
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TemplarCo.
Mexico2870 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
as long as they keep peterson healthy, their offence should be fine. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On August 03 2011 06:42 Hawk wrote: Vikes makes sense, but he loves him some Bill Belly. Isn't it up to the player? given that players don't go into the hall with respect to a certain team like they do in baseball (lol clemens), it's kind of moot | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On August 03 2011 16:14 slyboogie wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On August 03 2011 15:07 d_so wrote: Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad. Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed. Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme. So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement? Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game. No no no. Asomugha does not have crazy interception numbers - nobody throws the ball at him, there is no ball to intercept. Nate Clement is an average cornerback, he was on the Bills and he was in San Francisco; everyone knew the Niners overpaid. Just because you can't tell that Asomugha is elite doesn't mean that corner backs are suddenly low impact or that corner back defense is "subjective." It's easy to see that Calvin Johnson is an almost perfect wide receiver. It's easy to see that Clay Matthews is a terror off the edges but not a fabulous cover linebacker. It's easy to see that Sam Bradford has supreme arm strength and good accuracy. Corner, Tackle, Fullback, Nose Tackle...these guys you have to watch for the whole game to really see. They don't have the ball in their hands, plays rarely develop around them but they are as crucial as Tailbacks, Outside Linebackers and Defensive Ends. That's a great way of putting it, especially for o-line and CB. It's easy to see an amazing interception or a powerful pancake and become enamored of a player when in fact it was just one play for a position that has to succeed virtually every time to be considered adequate. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On August 03 2011 06:42 Hawk wrote: Vikes makes sense, but he loves him some Bill Belly. Isn't it up to the player? Nope! Football players do not go into the hall of fame as members of a particular team. Their bust just lists every team they played with in chronological order. Much different than hall of fames for other sports. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 03 2011 13:38 Pangolin wrote: Carlson had a good rookie season and has gotten worse every year since. He had only 31 receptions last year, or something close that. He is also a holdover from the old regime, and the new gm (whose name I forget atm) and Carrol have no qualms about getting rid of guys who used to be good but aren't showing it anymore. Basically, I wouldn't be surprised if Carlson gets cut. If not, well there's nothing wrong with running a 2 TE scheme, New England uses Gronkowski and Hernandez after all. Ok thanks. I blindly attributed Carlson's drop off to having an aging Hasslebeck and Whitehurst throwing to him, but it's certainly possible he's regressed every year. Also, my main knowledge of is from him constantly burning the 49ers in the past 3 years... lol. On August 03 2011 15:07 d_so wrote: Honestly, CB defense is very subjective. Often time the value is relative, ie the corner may be very good, but the corner lining up on the opposite side may also be very bad. Also, INTs are kinda like blocks or steals in basketball. Depending on who you ask, a block/steal is either a shining example of good defense or an attribute of gambling, irresponsible play. This is similar to how interceptions are viewed. Very rarely do you see a CB who singlehandedly shuts down his side of the field. Such a player must be strong enough to jam, fast enough to cover sprinters, knowledgeable enough to intuit routes, disciplined enough to not bite on fakes, understand how to play zone/man/blitz, and still be serviceable against the run. Very, very rare. Usually, a corner posting good results is a product of scheme. So i dono. maybe asomugha is that player. But every year it seems you have a corner who's the top of his free agent class and starts massing rave reviews about his ability. Such players go on to disappoint just as much as they succeed. Anyone remember Nate clement? Overall, football is just a weird game. System back is just the start of it. It can be argued that, besides a verrrrry small cream of the crop at the top, most players are a product of system. It's the nature of the game. Comparing Asomugha to Clements is like comparing a 5-star restaurant to an overpriced Applebees in a bad location. Sure Applebees is a good restaurant, but you know you're overpaying for food you could easily make at home. Clements is an above average CB who plays well when being physical and jamming the WR at the line... the 49ers D generally had him playing back and this hurt his game. Also in no way is Clements in the same line of talent as Asomugha. Asomugha doesn't get the highlights as other DBs do because nobody throws to him (and he didn't play for a team that got much TV coverage) but he's elite. That said he mostly played man coverage and the Eagles would be wise to continue to use him in Man... not zone coverage. I don't know what their defensive scheme usually is... | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On August 03 2011 12:59 yrba1 wrote: Whoa whoa whoa! Really? You haven't been watching a lot of football have you? There's a reason why no one throws on Asomugha's side of the field and that's because when you throw to a receiver covering him, it's almost guaranteed an automatic INT. On August 03 2011 06:11 slyboogie wrote: That's crazy. Asomugha is amazing. He is, without a doubt, one of the top 10 football players in the NFL. There is a huge marginal difference between lining up Asomugha and lining up good but not great corners, like Brandon Flowers or Vontae Davis. Could Nnamdi suddenly hit a wall athletically? Yeah, I suppose that's possible, but that's possible for any player in the NFL. Would you be saying the same thing if the signing had been Andre Johnson or Demarcus Ware? Can you guys read? I said he was going to be solid. Or extremely reliable if you want to put it that way. When teams play against the eagles this season I expect they will go more towards 2 TE sets and running the ball to neutralize the effectiveness of the Eagles CBs. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles trade Samuels either. | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
On August 04 2011 00:49 TwoToneTerran wrote: Nope! Football players do not go into the hall of fame as members of a particular team. Their bust just lists every team they played with in chronological order. Much different than hall of fames for other sports. But the real question is does anyone actually believe that Randy will stay out? He's already tried to retire once. Will he stay retied this time? | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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mints
United States120 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 04 2011 05:12 Rayeth wrote: But the real question is does anyone actually believe that Randy will stay out? He's already tried to retire once. Will he stay retied this time? I seriously doubt he stays retired for long. Some team will call him. | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On August 04 2011 05:16 Slaughter wrote: Nick Fairley hurt his foot and is seeing a specialist T_T It was funny to hear the specialist he was seeing was in Charlotte, I have such a negative view of local doctors after the Panthers' surgeon destroyed Patrick Jeffers' career. Certainly not the way you want to make your début in the league as a lineman with foot surgery, it will be interesting to see if durability becomes an issue. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 04 2011 05:05 eshlow wrote: Can you guys read? I said he was going to be solid. Or extremely reliable if you want to put it that way. When teams play against the eagles this season I expect they will go more towards 2 TE sets and running the ball to neutralize the effectiveness of the Eagles CBs. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles trade Samuels either. Don't make this about our reading. Either you were wrong and can't admit it or you wrote a bad sentence. Look at that sentence again. Why would you put "unfortunately" if you're praising him? We're telling you he's more than solid (or extremely reliable, if you want to put it that way;) if one player is going to make an entire team go into a 2 TE set more often, then he's already doing more than a great job. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 04 2011 09:38 slyboogie wrote: Don't make this about our reading. Either you were wrong and can't admit it or you wrote a bad sentence. Look at that sentence again. Why would you put "unfortunately" if you're praising him? We're telling you he's more than solid (or extremely reliable, if you want to put it that way;) if one player is going to make an entire team go into a 2 TE set more often, then he's already doing more than a great job. Its unfortunate because he is a REDSKINS fan. Something that should be fairly obvious if you have been following the thread (see massive Redskins focused posts). Do you actively root for your rival teams to play at all-star levels so they can stomp you year in and year out? | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On August 04 2011 09:38 slyboogie wrote: Don't make this about our reading. Either you were wrong and can't admit it or you wrote a bad sentence. Look at that sentence again. Why would you put "unfortunately" if you're praising him? We're telling you he's more than solid (or extremely reliable, if you want to put it that way;) if one player is going to make an entire team go into a 2 TE set more often, then he's already doing more than a great job. As stated, I'm a REdskins fan. We play them 2x per year. Of course I want him to fail and fail hard. If you had been in this thread for a while you would know this, and now you're just nitpicking. I specifically said "I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately." which obviously means that" AT WORST he will be" (e,g. can't see him being anything other than) solid. I already know he's been playing at #1 or #2 CB level although I am hoping that his age will start catching up with him so he downgrades significantly. We'll see though. On August 04 2011 10:02 Southlight wrote: Also uhh, you realize top-end CBs have been put on TEs a lot, in the past, right? Like Champ Bailey on Gates. I have no idea how they'll use Nnamdi but they've got a lot of options with that trio, unless they trade one of them, and so it wouldn't surprise me if you try to go 2TE and they just stick one of their all-star CBs on the top TE :p Unfortunately, Asomugha does have the size to cover TEs... most of the better CBs don't. I think he would be more useful on the pure island, but they do have that option with 2 other good CBs which sucks. Fortunately, our team has 2 good TEs so we can still create some mismatches..... although Beck/Grossman isn't exactly the combo you want throwing the ball, lol. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 04 2011 10:02 Southlight wrote: Also uhh, you realize top-end CBs have been put on TEs a lot, in the past, right? Like Champ Bailey on Gates. I have no idea how they'll use Nnamdi but they've got a lot of options with that trio, unless they trade one of them, and so it wouldn't surprise me if you try to go 2TE and they just stick one of their all-star CBs on the top TE :p Well, no cornerback in history, be he Rod Woodson or Deion Sanders or Nnamdi Asomugha, would make a team remove their best wideout from the majority of their plays. Could you imagine the Cardinals taking out Larry Fitzgerald or the Atlanta keeping Roddy White on the sidelines? No, they'll be in the game for 85-95% of the snaps. That's where Asomugha will be. EDIT: As stated, I'm a REdskins fan. We play them 2x per year. Of course I want him to fail and fail hard. If you had been in this thread for a while you would know this, and now you're just nitpicking. With all due respect, I'm not nitpicking anything. You asked if I could read. You could say that, "I hope Nnamdi is just a little above average." Or "I hope he suffers a bone bruise and can't play us." I don't care who you root for, it's fine whichever team it is, but that wasn't what you wrote. You said that "you can't imagine Nnamdi Asomugha being anything more than solid." Not, "Boy, I sure wish he is just average." | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
With all due respect, I'm not nitpicking anything. You asked if I could read. You could say that, "I hope Nnamdi is just a little above average." Or "I hope he suffers a bone bruise and can't play us." I don't care who you root for, it's fine whichever team it is, but that wasn't what you wrote. You said that "you can't imagine Nnamdi Asomugha being anything more than solid." Not, "Boy, I sure wish he is just average." Sorry, you're absolutely wrong. You clearly read what I said wrong... here I'll do a side by side comparison. "you can't imagine Nnamdi Asomugha being anything more than solid." "I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately." which means that "AT WORST he will be solid", and at best you can take it to the literal meaning of "he will be solid at best" which is the worst case scenario. However, given the context of my post assessing the other Eagles FA signings, I am obviously complimenting him. I will admit it is a poorly worded statement, but not incorrect like you and the other guy are claiming. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 04 2011 10:22 eshlow wrote: Sorry, you're absolutely wrong. You clearly read what I said wrong... here I'll do a side by side comparison. "you can't imagine Nnamdi Asomugha being anything more than solid." "I can't imagine Asomugha being anything other than solid unfortunately." which means that "AT WORST he will be solid", and at best you can take it to the literal meaning of "he will be solid at best" which is the worst case scenario. However, given the context of my post assessing the other Eagles FA signings, I am obviously complimenting him. I will admit it is a poorly worded statement, but not incorrect like you and the other guy are claiming. No, you're right. My bad. I suppose I read "other" as a limiter and that's not what you meant. Sorry for giving you a hard time. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
In good news (for me) the niners signed two actual legit players! I've been told that Carlos Rogers has stone hands and can be a prick at times, but that he's actually a really good cover corner... really underrated. Eshlow can you confirm this? We also picked up Jonathan Goodwin from the Saints a Pro Bowl center. Now I can't really judge players based on Pro Bowls (like half the people elected sit out of them anyways), but he still seems like a solid addition and someone who can anchor the line for a few years (3 years at 10 mill? pretty cheap for a good center). He's a bit old (32) but at least this gives us time to draft + groom a replacement. We're also in talks for picking up a WR, either Edwards or Malcom Floyd... not sure how I feel about either of these pickups, but it's not like the 49ers don't need the depth at this point... | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On August 04 2011 10:46 nemY wrote: Yo you guys need to chill. If i was a Redskins fan I'd hope Asomugha breaks his legs on the first play of the 2011 season running into DRC giving him a concussion... ok maybe not that extreme, I'm not that spiteful of a person, but haha man it must suck being a Redskins fan right now. I just looked at their roster and uhh your guys offense needs help bad. I'm a niners fan and I wouldn't want any of your QBs on my roster lol. In good news (for me) the niners signed two actual legit players! I've been told that Carlos Rogers has stone hands and can be a prick at times, but that he's actually a really good cover corner... really underrated. Eshlow can you confirm this? We also picked up Jonathan Goodwin from the Saints a Pro Bowl center. Now I can't really judge players based on Pro Bowls (like half the people elected sit out of them anyways), but he still seems like a solid addition and someone who can anchor the line for a few years (3 years at 10 mill? pretty cheap for a good center). He's a bit old (32) but at least this gives us time to draft + groom a replacement. We're also in talks for picking up a WR, either Edwards or Malcom Floyd... not sure how I feel about either of these pickups, but it's not like the 49ers don't need the depth at this point... That assessment of Rogers is pretty good. I've seen him wear some good WR's like a jacket, but at times, it looks ...well...his hands look bad lol You could certainly do a lot worse at corner, that's for sure | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b0632a/White-catches-Clements-pokes-out-ball I'm cool with the Rogers! | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
He also developed a REALLY bad tendency last year to bite on the double move (or a good habit if your team is also in the NFC East like mine). Which is an interesting issue to have considering that even if the man could jump the route, he never could catch the ball. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On August 04 2011 10:46 nemY wrote: Yo you guys need to chill. If i was a Redskins fan I'd hope Asomugha breaks his legs on the first play of the 2011 season running into DRC giving him a concussion... ok maybe not that extreme, I'm not that spiteful of a person, but haha man it must suck being a Redskins fan right now. I just looked at their roster and uhh your guys offense needs help bad. I'm a niners fan and I wouldn't want any of your QBs on my roster lol. In good news (for me) the niners signed two actual legit players! I've been told that Carlos Rogers has stone hands and can be a prick at times, but that he's actually a really good cover corner... really underrated. Eshlow can you confirm this? We also picked up Jonathan Goodwin from the Saints a Pro Bowl center. Now I can't really judge players based on Pro Bowls (like half the people elected sit out of them anyways), but he still seems like a solid addition and someone who can anchor the line for a few years (3 years at 10 mill? pretty cheap for a good center). He's a bit old (32) but at least this gives us time to draft + groom a replacement. We're also in talks for picking up a WR, either Edwards or Malcom Floyd... not sure how I feel about either of these pickups, but it's not like the 49ers don't need the depth at this point... Rogers was actually bad last year.... allowing 70% of the passes thrown his way to be completed. Like Blood said he bit on the double move a lot. Ummm, I mean he's relatively good when he's playing well, but he rarely gets the INT. And when he's playing bad he can lose you the game (like any other corner though). But since he is big he is able to cover against big receivers fine ok. I am fine not bringing him back at all for us. Hopefully he works out for you guys..... | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 05 2011 05:36 nemY wrote: Niners sending a mass email to every other team in the NFL asking if they'd like to make a trade for Taylor Mays. Fucking Genius. Way to drrrrrrive up that value! Yeah that was brilliant. I dont get why they're trying to move him. What's everyone's take on WHitner?? Edwards is odd and wont matter much with Smith throwing and him playing behind a meh line | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
The whole logic of taking him so high flies in the face of normal ff logic: Don't take an older player who just came off of a career year that's miles above his career averages. That should be reason #1 above alll else. There's also what you miss by taking him, namely the fact that you'll miss on a top feature runner (far more rare than high scoring QBs, since there's probably 7 real good ones this year) and you will definitely want to draft a better than average backup QB when he goes down Then there's Vick-specific reasons: You can safely bet that he'll probably miss at least 2-4 games due to injury because of his playstyle. Teams will be gameplanning for him now, and they will have a whole year's worth of Vick tape from his Eagles time, not studying how to play Vick vased on 2006 tape from when he was with the Falcons. While the Eagles' system is perfectly tailored to his skills by Reid, it's not exactly very deep. It's all variations on screens to McCoy, Bombs to Jackson and deep outs to Maclin. also, we need people for the TL FANTASY LEAGUE!!!! | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On August 05 2011 22:19 Hawk wrote: The whole logic of taking him so high flies in the face of normal ff logic: Don't take an older player who just came off of a career year that's miles above his career averages the more specific reason is that vick autowon everyone's leagues last year because you instantly got the #1 fantasy QB ON TOP OF your first round pick. that isn't happening this year. going to be a surprise for a lot of people when vick puts up 40 points but they get smacked up at rb/wr | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 05 2011 22:30 sixfour wrote: the more specific reason is that vick autowon everyone's leagues last year because you instantly got the #1 fantasy QB ON TOP OF your first round pick. that isn't happening this year. going to be a surprise for a lot of people when vick puts up 40 points but they get smacked up at rb/wr Yeah thats another big one too. The pro-Vick argument to that is basically, he did all that while not playing 16, so if you prorate it, he scores like 400 something points, which is that much higher than the next QB that it makes it worth it to eat the losses at WR/RB. There's so many variables at play in that logic, moreso than any other high draft pick, that it just doesn't make sense. I don't really fuck with big gambles like that until the 3rd/4th round at least. Even then, still. But it's exactly like you said. People rode Vick because a lot of people scooped up a 1st/2nd rnd player in probably the 10th round in most leagues. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 05 2011 22:46 Hawk wrote: Yeah thats another big one too. The pro-Vick argument to that is basically, he did all that while not playing 16, so if you prorate it, he scores like 400 something points, which is that much higher than the next QB that it makes it worth it to eat the losses at WR/RB. There's so many variables at play in that logic, moreso than any other high draft pick, that it just doesn't make sense. I don't really fuck with big gambles like that until the 3rd/4th round at least. Even then, still. But it's exactly like you said. People rode Vick because a lot of people scooped up a 1st/2nd rnd player in probably the 10th round in most leagues. Matthew Berry extrapolated Vick's performance last year (300 points on the dot) to if he had played the whole season. Those numbers came to season total of 449 points (Adrian Foster was #1 last year with 313). Here is the article, its a fun read even if you don't agree with parts of it. http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=NFLDK2K11_TMRManifesto That being said I do not plan on drafting Vick unless he drops real low again for some reason. I also would love to play in a TL fantasy league. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Taking him first overall is obviously insanity, like taking any QB would be. Taking him first out of QBs, as long as your league isnt nuts and takes QBs super early, i guess i can easily see. I mean he's a gamble, but most likely worth it. He WILL be injured, but when he does play he truly is dominant. Sure teams may play better against him this year, but just his rushing skills alone mean in the weeks he DOES play he is practically a 100% lock for 20+ a week and sometimes exploding for like 40. I'd take that for 11 games and use some matchup specific back up the rest. I guess my only question is what round he goes in. I'd be hard pressed to take any QB before like the early third. ------------ By the way someone should start an Official 2011 NFL season thread. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
It's still a whacky argument. It's like drafting Brady with one of the top three picks after the 50 TD year and expecting him to hit 50TD again. Sooooo many people went absurdly high with that pick sixfour really nailed why it's a bad move to be drafting him so high, and why is value is so inflated. Late first, early second, I could see the logic in that. I just always think that if you have a crack at a top 5 RB who gets anywhere near 300 carries or like 85% of looks, you go with him over the QB. maybe a mod could just rename this thread, since it contains a whole bunch of relevant stuff. Unless someone wants to undertake the massive task of organizing major moves! | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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-Aura-
United States209 Posts
[B]We're also in talks for picking up a WR, either Edwards or Malcom Floyd... not sure how I feel about either of these pickups, but it's not like the 49ers don't need the depth at this point... As a Jets fan, I'm telling you right now Edwards will drive you nuts. He has this terribly annoying habit of dropping easy passes on 1st/2nd down. It totally kills momentum when he just throws away a 10-20 yard gain. You'll see if you pick him up. Any fellow Jets fans on TL? Need to start getting ready to follow in Rex's footsteps and trash talk all the non-Jets-fans. <3 Ryan so much :D | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 06 2011 04:19 -Aura- wrote: As a Jets fan, I'm telling you right now Edwards will drive you nuts. He has this terribly annoying habit of dropping easy passes on 1st/2nd down. It totally kills momentum when he just throws away a 10-20 yard gain. You'll see if you pick him up. Any fellow Jets fans on TL? Need to start getting ready to follow in Rex's footsteps and trash talk all the non-Jets-fans. <3 Ryan so much :D Yeah I've heard he's got some hands problems, but I'll bet he's a serious upgrade over Ted Ginn Jr. At the very least Edwards can show Crabtree what he's destined to become if Crabtree doesn't shape up... | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 06 2011 04:19 -Aura- wrote: As a Jets fan, I'm telling you right now Edwards will drive you nuts. He has this terribly annoying habit of dropping easy passes on 1st/2nd down. It totally kills momentum when he just throws away a 10-20 yard gain. You'll see if you pick him up. Any fellow Jets fans on TL? Need to start getting ready to follow in Rex's footsteps and trash talk all the non-Jets-fans. <3 Ryan so much :D If you <3 Ryan so much you need to hop on the Dallas bandwagon as well. He is the only Ryan brother talking big at the moment. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
people are needed for the league. priority will be given to returning nerds. we are thinking a $10 or 20 buy in. the honorable mani usually holds for us, so we shall see if there is some other swell and honest mod we can find to do it since he is busy with that whole life thing draft date to be discussed late. post if youre interested, and them pm dknight because his lazy ass is supposed to be doing this! | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 07 2011 13:15 Hawk wrote: TL FOOTBALL NERDS people are needed for the league. priority will be given to returning nerds. we are thinking a $10 or 20 buy in. the honorable mani usually holds for us, so we shall see if there is some other swell and honest mod we can find to do it since he is busy with that whole life thing draft date to be discussed late. post if youre interested, and them pm dknight because his lazy ass is supposed to be doing this! There is also a free league being organized already. It will be an auction draft and i think there are still spots available. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251299 | ||
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
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Veritask
260 Posts
On August 07 2011 13:15 Hawk wrote: TL FOOTBALL NERDS people are needed for the league. priority will be given to returning nerds. we are thinking a $10 or 20 buy in. the honorable mani usually holds for us, so we shall see if there is some other swell and honest mod we can find to do it since he is busy with that whole life thing draft date to be discussed late. post if youre interested, and them pm dknight because his lazy ass is supposed to be doing this! I'm interested. If you guys have any space, I'd love to join. By the way, Vikings punter Chris Kluwe is now my favorite player. On a recent radio interview, he said he wants to be a starcraft 2 commentator in Korea. edit- also, the site LeagueSafe.com is a good way to collect for fantasy football leagues. It's free and I know it's reliable. | ||
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-Aura-
United States209 Posts
By the way, Vikings punter Chris Kluwe is now my favorite player. On a recent radio interview, he said he wants to be a starcraft 2 commentator in Korea. Source plzplzplz :D Also I'd be interested in the league if there are still spots open. | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On August 07 2011 13:21 BloodNinja wrote: There is also a free league being organized already. It will be an auction draft and i think there are still spots available. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251299 Awesome (as I don't think I could do any buy in league atm) | ||
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Veritask
260 Posts
On August 08 2011 04:05 -Aura- wrote: Source plzplzplz :D Also I'd be interested in the league if there are still spots open. http://www.kfan.com/cc-common/podcast/single_page.html?more_page=&podcast=KFAN_Common&selected_podcast=COMMON_08-04-11_HR3.mp3 It's at about 9:00, but the whole interview is worth the listen. He's a pretty cool guy, nice to see a pro football player not as the stereotypical jock. | ||
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ForbiddenGHoSt
United States7 Posts
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
On August 08 2011 04:05 -Aura- wrote: Source plzplzplz :D Also I'd be interested in the league if there are still spots open. Kluwe is awesome, I'm pretty sure I remember him tweeting once that he needed to work on his Starcraft skils. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 08 2011 04:36 ForbiddenGHoSt wrote: what i would have liked to see was the cowboys get some sort of defensive player in the FA. they shouldve tried harder for asomugha or at least some defense... They don't really need Asomugha tho. Esp not at the price he was going at. Their whole role was to drive up his price. I would have liked to see them try to address their holes a bit better though. They needed to get two safeties and two DEs. I would have liked to see the Cowboys name pursuing more aggressively in those markets. That being said, it seems they got solid fill-ins but most likely role-players. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
God damn Heyward-Bey is fast! Then I think about all the WRs drafted after Crabtree in 2009 who have gone on to do bigger, better things. Sure would be nice to have Harvin, Nicks, or Maclin right about now... | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 08 2011 10:34 nemY wrote: + Show Spoiler + As much of a diva/underachiever he has been, I'm so glad the Raiders drafted Darrius Heyward-Bey over Michael Crabtree in the 2009 draft. I watch this for fun and it makes me smile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU8TeIxafXM God damn Heyward-Bey is fast! Then I think about all the WRs drafted after Crabtree in 2009 who have gone on to do bigger, better things. Sure would be nice to have Harvin, Nicks, or Maclin right about now.. One of the few good Maryland football products over the past few years. I am a VT alumni and huge fan still, but you could tell that kid had the tools needed to play in the NFL when he was in college. That said a atleast one of the others you mentioned has had issues though. Hasn't Harvin spent a lot of time on IR with medical concerns? Although Nicks and Maclin seem to be solid. You did leave off one other 1st round WR from that year, Kenny Britt (who I don't know what to think of since he played in Tenn). | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/WR_Player_Picks_Hakeem_Crabtree.htm As a UMD grad I thought it was hilarious when the raiders took him that high. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 08 2011 10:45 eshlow wrote: Guess they shoulda listened to these guys and picked Nicks over Crabtree and DHB: http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/Content/WR_Player_Picks_Hakeem_Crabtree.htm As a UMD grad I thought it was hilarious when the raiders took him that high. Who is Fischer and what are his credentials in analyzing game tape? I took a quick look at the article and in multiple segments he discusses analyzing game tape to make conclusions about players. I cannot tell from the blog if he Joe Shmoe with a well followed webpage or someone who knows what to look for in breaking down tape (Which is an issue). If he has the experience than its an insightful read, if not, its a blowhard who had the privilege of seeing how events turned out 1 year in the future before making a decision. My apologies on the rant, but I really cant stand some of the "I woulda done this if I could see how things turned out in the future" pieces that get churned out daily by sports writers. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 08 2011 10:44 BloodNinja wrote: One of the few good Maryland football products over the past few years. I am a VT alumni and huge fan still, but you could tell that kid had the tools needed to play in the NFL when he was in college. That said a atleast one of the others you mentioned has had issues though. Hasn't Harvin spent a lot of time on IR with medical concerns? Although Nicks and Maclin seem to be solid. You did leave off one other 1st round WR from that year, Kenny Britt (who I don't know what to think of since he played in Tenn). Harvin has had migraines I think? He's only missed a few games though and in-game he's a nightmare for defensive coordinators to plan against. In my opinion he's similar to Reggie Bush in many aspects, but I'd argue he's better and I also wouldn't take too much of what I say as fact, because I've rarely seen Harvin play Britt has had so many off the field problems that I wouldn't want him. I don't really catch many Titans games so I can't tell you what I really think of his performance. Maclin seems to be sick recently? Not sure what to make of it, but that sucks because he seems to be a solid WR... arguably the #1 in the Eagles system. Heyward-Bey is fast. Really fast. You can see his track-star speed on display in the youtube vid I posted earlier. He outruns the entire play. Problem is, he's playing football not running track. Crabtree seems to play "slower" than what is expected out of him. I'm not saying the guy is molasses, but he seems to have trouble getting separation from DBs. His numbers were ridiculous coming out of college, but he played a in a system that made it easy for him to have inflated stats. He was also hyped up a shit-ton. I remember being so happy when the 49ers picked him at #10, because nobody thought he would fall that far. So far I feel he looks like a really good #2 WR... which is not what the 49ers drafted him to be. edit: it is hard to judge though based on Crabtree having only played 1.5 seasons. His holdout didn't help my opinion of him, but he actually had a pretty good first year. Also when you play in a run-orientated offense with Alex Smith throwing you the ball... well yeah your numbers might not be amazing. Still I think anyone who's covered the 49ers expects more out of what we've seen. | ||
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FroZen(-_-)
United States183 Posts
Click me for in depth analysis of this poster's thoughts. | ||
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TheBanana
Norway2183 Posts
On August 08 2011 13:00 nemY wrote: Harvin has had migraines I think? He's only missed a few games though and in-game he's a nightmare for defensive coordinators to plan against. In my opinion he's similar to Reggie Bush in many aspects, but I'd argue he's better and I also wouldn't take too much of what I say as fact, because I've rarely seen Harvin play Yeah, he has migraine-problems. At one point they had him go to specialists and they thought they found the core of the problem. He was fine for a few weeks and then it came back. He hasn't missed a lot of matches but he misses lots of practice and it definitely affects him. As a Vikings-fan I've seen every NFL-match he has played, I would easily put him ahead of Reggie Bush without a shred of doubt, he's damn good and extremely explosive. I might be biased, but I think I would feel this way also if I wasn't a Viking-fan. I'm a little bit concerned about his hands though, he has his share of drops. | ||
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-Aura-
United States209 Posts
On August 08 2011 04:30 Veritask wrote: http://www.kfan.com/cc-common/podcast/single_page.html?more_page=&podcast=KFAN_Common&selected_podcast=COMMON_08-04-11_HR3.mp3 It's at about 9:00, but the whole interview is worth the listen. He's a pretty cool guy, nice to see a pro football player not as the stereotypical jock. Wow awesome. Asides from Gordon Hayward, are there any other famous sport players who are also Starcraft fans? | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
![[image loading]](http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/e1/e1e8648e4e2cbe4114ce214d1ea875ca/even_with_the_dorag_deions_hall_bust_looked_nothing_like_him.jpg) + Show Spoiler + Prime Time! | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Crabs, I expected a bit more, but at the same time, I probably made that decision while drunk trying to convince myself that Alex Smith wasn't in his 7th year. He's definitely not a burner though also, that Fischer guy is apparently oblivious as to how fantasy works if he can't figure out why Nicks isn't a sure fire draft ahead of Crabs. The Giants have three receivers that could hit 1,000 in any season. Crabtree is gdefinitely going to get the most looks in San Fran | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:23 -Aura- wrote: Wow awesome. Asides from Gordon Hayward, are there any other famous sport players who are also Starcraft fans? Punters aren't real football players. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:14 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Punters aren't real football players. Lemons posted. FOOTBALL IS HERE! | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 08 2011 04:36 ForbiddenGHoSt wrote: what i would have liked to see was the cowboys get some sort of defensive player in the FA. they shouldve tried harder for asomugha or at least some defense... Nnamdi was never going to Dallas. Dallas is too far from a championship at this point. Money was a big part of it, but he's looking to win after 8 or 9 years in Oakland. On August 08 2011 08:06 BloodNinja wrote: They don't really need Asomugha tho. Esp not at the price he was going at. Their whole role was to drive up his price. I would have liked to see them try to address their holes a bit better though. They needed to get two safeties and two DEs. I would have liked to see the Cowboys name pursuing more aggressively in those markets. That being said, it seems they got solid fill-ins but most likely role-players. Every team in the league could have used him. A guy that locks down one half of the field for pretty much 100% of the game automatically makes every defense he's on better. In other words, just about every team that ever runs man coverage could have used him--he's an asset to over 50% of the league. Who the Cowboys don't need for high money is Terrance Newman. They would have been MUCH better off if they had Nnamdi, and released Newman. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
[QUOTE]On August 08 2011 13:00 nemY wrote: [QUOTE]On August 08 2011 10:44 BloodNinja wrote: [QUOTE]On August 08 2011 10:34 nemY wrote: + Show Spoiler + As much of a diva/underachiever he has been, I'm so glad the Raiders drafted Darrius Heyward-Bey over Michael Crabtree in the 2009 draft. I watch this for fun and it makes me smile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU8TeIxafXM God damn Heyward-Bey is fast! Then I think about all the WRs drafted after Crabtree in 2009 who have gone on to do bigger, better things. Sure would be nice to have Harvin, Nicks, or Maclin right about now.. One of the few good Maryland football products over the past few years. I am a VT alumni and huge fan still, but you could tell that kid had the tools needed to play in the NFL when he was in college. That said a atleast one of the others you mentioned has had issues though. Hasn't Harvin spent a lot of time on IR with medical concerns? Although Nicks and Maclin seem to be solid. You did leave off one other 1st round WR from that year, Kenny Britt (who I don't know what to think of since he played in Tenn). [/QUOTE] Harvin has had migraines I think? He's only missed a few games though and in-game he's a nightmare for defensive coordinators to plan against. In my opinion he's similar to Reggie Bush in many aspects, but I'd argue he's better and I also wouldn't take too much of what I say as fact, because I've rarely seen Harvin play [/QUOTE] I've seen a lot of Vikings games, living in the NFC North's area (we get them if the Packers and Bears aren't playing, no one is force to watch Detroit, rofl). They're similar players, but different. They're both the type of player that you want to get into open space and see what they can do, but Reggie isn't an over the middle, open space kind of guy. Reggie is a guy that works best when you're creating mismatches with him (like all players, I guess). Maybe flex him out of the backfield, or run some sort of screen set up. He's the kind of guy you want to get on the edge with a couple blockers, then let him do his thing. Occasionally you'll line him up at slot and get a linebacker on him or a slower safety. Harvin is similar, but he's a WR first. He runs crisper routes, he has more weight behind him, he's less injury prone, but he's probably slightly less agile. I guess what I'm saying is that they're the same type of player, but you use them differently. Since you can use Harvin in the same ways that you use Bush, I would say that Harvin is the better player, since you can use Harvin in ways that you really cannot use Bush. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:02 Hawk wrote: Harvin is an every down player. Bush can only succeed in optimal situations. THat's really what it boils down to Exactly what I was saying. hahaha. I'm just long winded. Regarding Dallas' defense. Given their 12th rushing defense ranking, I don't think they need new DE's. Jay Ratliff and Marcus Spears are good run stoppers, which is what a DE does in a 3-4 defense. They could use some additional help in the LB corp to take some pressure off of Ware. If they had another edge rusher the offense wouldn't be able to key on him (not that it does very much good most of the time). | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:15 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Exactly what I was saying. hahaha. I'm just long winded. I feel you. For far too long I have been called a one liner poster when I am merely efficient! | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
Someone is coming to town. http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/story/_/id/6847826/la-council-passes-aeg-plan-farmers-field LOS ANGELES -- In perhaps the biggest step the city has taken in 16 years towards bringing the NFL back, the Los Angeles City Council unanimously passed the financial framework of an agreement between Anschutz Entertainment Group and the city to build Farmers Field, a $1.2 billion football stadium and events center in downtown Los Angeles. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:23 Fruscainte wrote: L.A. just announced a 1.2 Billion Dollar Football Stadium to be built. Someone is coming to town. http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/story/_/id/6847826/la-council-passes-aeg-plan-farmers-field I hope it's San Diego, because . . . really, why does California need five teams? | ||
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-Aura-
United States209 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:14 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Punters aren't real football players. OK which other famous people involved physical competitive activity are Starcraft fans? :D | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
Funny that he's probably least remembered as a 49'ers player, and you're proud. :D Also, until today, I had no idea he played for the Redskins, or that he missed so much time throughout his career. He only played 3 full seasons, every other year he missed at least one game. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:23 Fruscainte wrote: L.A. just announced a 1.2 Billion Dollar Football Stadium to be built. Someone is coming to town. http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/story/_/id/6847826/la-council-passes-aeg-plan-farmers-field Wooo, another publically funded stadium! And this time for a city that doesn't have a team and won't give a shit if they get one just like the last go round! | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:04 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Funny that he's probably least remembered as a 49'ers player, and you're proud. :D Also, until today, I had no idea he played for the Redskins, or that he missed so much time throughout his career. He only played 3 full seasons, every other year he missed at least one game. That Redskins deal was HUGE news. Dan Snyder shelled out serious cash for a well over-the-hill CB/return man. I believe that was the 2000 season where Snyder signed a bunch of old vets to huge contracts. And the bust looks nothing like Deion to me. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Anyone remember the Danny Woodcock fiasco? ![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5079/primetimez.png) | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:04 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Funny that he's probably least remembered as a 49'ers player, and you're proud. :D Also, until today, I had no idea he played for the Redskins, or that he missed so much time throughout his career. He only played 3 full seasons, every other year he missed at least one game. Eh proud? My first thought when I saw this picture was, "Isn't Troy Aikman already in the HOF?" Regardless he was a catalyst on defense that year for the 49ers and he probably had the best year of his career that year. Yeah Sanders was injured a lot. Playing two sports FT (or as close to FT as he could get to it) year-round took a heavy toll on his body. I think he had turf toe for like two years during his stint with the Cowboys? His foot is crazy deformed from it (sort of like Torry Holt's fingers). I think he also usually skipped training camps and preseasons in the NFL because of the overlap with baseball (ie: The months of July/August he wouldn't play football if he was still playing baseball). I can't recall if he actually ever skipped any regular season games of football for baseball... I sort of doubt it (unless the team was vying for the playoffs, then I could see it happening). He made the World Series one year though didn't he? So yeah he must have skipped some games of football for baseball. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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yrba1
United States325 Posts
On August 10 2011 05:48 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: I hope it's San Diego, because . . . really, why does California need five teams? Oh great.. more LA traffic to deal with right when I'm moving to Long Beach.. | ||
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GTR
51373 Posts
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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Tegin
United States840 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Tegin
United States840 Posts
On August 11 2011 08:58 DannyJ wrote: Rex Grossman found himself in a super bowl one year... anything is possible. That's just like Trent Dilfer story..winning simply on good defense. | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On August 10 2011 15:53 Holcan wrote: Hasn't Al Davis publicly stated that the Oakland Raiders would move back to LA as long as they had a stadium to house their team in? Perhaps the return of the silver and black is in order. Probably this Buffalo and Vikings have also expressed interest in moving too I think... | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 11 2011 09:02 Tegin wrote: That's just like Trent Dilfer story..winning simply on good defense. I don't remember Dilfer being as epicly terrible as Grossman. I've always felt the statement "the Bears made the Super Bowl despite Rex Grossman" to be fairly accurate. I remember Dilfer being mediocre but steady, as opposed to to Grossman who repeatedly submarined games single-handedly. Edit- Maybe Rex wasnt as bad as consistently as I remember. But he had a below average season to say the least. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Rgrossmanstats2006.png) Average QB rating: 73.9 | ||
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
My poor giants. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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GTR
51373 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 11 2011 10:26 BloodNinja wrote: I don't remember Dilfer being as epicly terrible as Grossman. I've always felt the statement "the Bears made the Super Bowl despite Rex Grossman" to be fairly accurate. I remember Dilfer being mediocre but steady, as opposed to to Grossman who repeatedly submarined games single-handedly. Edit- Maybe Rex wasnt as bad as consistently as I remember. But he had a below average season to say the least. Average QB rating: 73.9 Rex Grossman hasn't been relevant since 2007 Anybody else remember this game? Keep dreaming Grossman. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 11 2011 13:05 GTR wrote: if eagles don't make the playoffs i demand reid to be fired. I'm pretty sure he would be. Edit: Who am i kidding no he wouldnt. They kept donny 5 years too long they will keep Andy too long as well. | ||
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Alokiya
United States648 Posts
On August 11 2011 13:09 DannyJ wrote: I'm pretty sure he would be. Edit: Who am i kidding no he wouldnt. They kept donny 5 years too long they will keep Andy too long as well. I'm not sure the eagles could miss the playoffs, if their 2 new corners (neither of which I could ever hope to spell correctly) play at their best level, no one is gonna score well through the air against the eagles. Vick, when he's on, is one of the most frustrating players to defend in the nfl, and he has some good players to throw to. I'm super excited to see the packers this season. They were, if I remember correctly, the most injured team in the NFL last season (based on starters missing games.) With Jermichael Finley back, who I think could be one of the next great tight ends in the NFL, Aaron Rodgers is gonna have even more targets to chuck to, and if Ryan Grant can finally give them a running game, the Packers are gonna be hard to beat. Plus, they have Thor playing linebacker, how can you lose that way? | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Imagine if the packers had gotten a great RB and elite TE during the free agency. That's essentially what they did since Grant and Finley are coming back. Isn't almost their entire team from last year coming back healthy as well? I usually don't buy into teams repeating in the NFL, but i wouldnt be surprised at all if the Pack can do it this year. | ||
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Alaron
United States225 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 11 2011 13:05 nemY wrote: Rex Grossman hasn't been relevant since 2007 + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVgIv4QQm4g Anybody else remember this game? Keep dreaming Grossman. The Dallas fan in me wants to vomit when I see disgustingly pretty deep throws like that, the VT alumni in me is proud as hell..... Ugh! Also I agree on Grossman, although as shown by the graph above the only relevant discussion even in 2006 was which Grossman was going to show up to the Bears game. Edit - Also, no one who seriously follows football is sleeping on the Packers. Most talk radio (and some of them are borderline retarded) I am hearing currently is saying any challenger in the NFC who wants to go to the Super Bowl is going have to go through the Packers. They have just elevated the Eagles to the rank of serious contender at this point. Its just the fact that the Eagles were already a playoff contender last season and then they decided to go all-in this season. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
it's a ppr + return yards, so scoring is kind of funky. one spot i've been confused on is the saints RB battle. Ivory carried for most of last season, averaging around 5ypc. Thomas was resigned for 4 years in the offseason. Mark Ingrahm was drafted at the end of the first round. And Sproles was signed in the offseason to essentially replace bush. Most mocks had Sproles fairly low, but I'm thinking with PPR (.5) and return (50 yards per point; 2 points at 100 yards; 4 points at 200 yards), he should certainly be a good mid draft pick. anyone else want to provide insight here? On August 11 2011 08:50 slyboogie wrote: Steve Smith of USC and the New York Giants has been signed by the Eagles. Totally solid third receiver and can be a second option if Maclin can't get healthy. He really should be a good #2 on a team somewhere. A bit of a waste of his talents ot have him as the #3 | ||
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rod-
Norway379 Posts
On August 11 2011 22:39 Hawk wrote: I spent like two hours preparing a bunch of shit for my brother's live draft league bc he is a moron and asks before the day of the event. it's a ppr + return yards, so scoring is kind of funky. one spot i've been confused on is the saints RB battle. Ivory carried for most of last season, averaging around 5ypc. Thomas was resigned for 4 years in the offseason. Mark Ingrahm was drafted at the end of the first round. And Sproles was signed in the offseason to essentially replace bush. Most mocks had Sproles fairly low, but I'm thinking with PPR (.5) and return (50 yards per point; 2 points at 100 yards; 4 points at 200 yards), he should certainly be a good mid draft pick. anyone else want to provide insight here? He really should be a good #2 on a team somewhere. A bit of a waste of his talents ot have him as the #3 The Saints have alot of options, so my advised would be to stay away from them. But then agian, ppr + return yards could give sproles a good value as a second back. Not totally sure what I would have done, go on your feeling. Steve Smith is solid, eagles are boosting it up for sure. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On August 11 2011 20:49 Ferrose wrote: I know it's just the preseason, but, ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL?! Hell yeah. And seeing the Eagles are definitely trying to make a superbowl run I'm super excited for this season | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 11 2011 23:39 Hawk wrote: I think most of the pre draft lists I saw had no Saints rb higher than like 6/7th, so he'd be drafting as a back up most likely Personally I avoid Saints RBs as much as I avoided Mike Shannahan RBs in Denver. The situations always appear to be way too convoluted (especially drafting this early when no one has had a chance to establish themselves to a role in camps yet). That said, if Sproles has secured himself the job as the return man, he could be worth a late round flier, imo. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On August 11 2011 22:39 Hawk wrote: He really should be a good #2 on a team somewhere. A bit of a waste of his talents ot have him as the #3 Didn't he have a pretty bad injury and people were actually wondering if he'd be able to play again? Otherwise, he's one of the better #2 receivers in the league. He's probably one of the best safety valves to get first downs if the first option is covered. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 12 2011 00:14 andrewlt wrote: Didn't he have a pretty bad injury and people were actually wondering if he'd be able to play again? Otherwise, he's one of the better #2 receivers in the league. He's probably one of the best safety valves to get first downs if the first option is covered. Yeah microfracture, but that's hardly career ending in 2011, esp on such a young dude. I can see the team's resistance to giving him a multi year, but the gmen low balled him on the 1 year as well. A dude who had a 100+ catch season just 16 games ago deserves to get $4m on a one year for sure and the giants werent offering | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 12 2011 00:23 Hawk wrote: Yeah microfracture, but that's hardly career ending in 2011, esp on such a young dude. I can see the team's resistance to giving him a multi year, but the gmen low balled him on the 1 year as well. A dude who had a 100+ catch season just 16 games ago deserves to get $4m on a one year for sure and the giants werent offering You are right it is not a career ending injury, but the thing is he might not be able able to play a full season right now. Is he still worth $4 million if he is only able to play 3/4 the season? What if there is any kind of setback in rehab and he is only there for 1/2 a season now? I think the offer they gave him is right in line with their expectations for his injury. The Eagles took a gamble, but it was a good gamble imo since they are really going all out this year for a Super Bowl run. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
I was arguing bout this with my giants buddy and then I went to look up salary figures. Corey Webster gets $8m, just a hair under what Eli Manning makes. Haha. | ||
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rod-
Norway379 Posts
Go Chargers, should be a good year, gl to all of the teams and fans :D | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Alokiya
United States648 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:32 tonight wrote: Will be good for the Chargers if Bob Sanders can play more than ONE GAME without getting hurt Won't happen, the guy throws himself around at 100 mph every play, but his body just can't handle the punishment. Who knows, when he played a full season in 2007 (I think, dun quote me) he won defensive player of the year and was one of about 3 good defenders the colts had. The guy is a savage, his body just doesn't like 20 mph head on collisions with 200+ pound running backs. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 12 2011 00:55 Hawk wrote: He's overpaid $1m at the very most if he only shows up for half, and the Iggles seem to think he doesnt miss more than 4, if that. I was arguing bout this with my giants buddy and then I went to look up salary figures. Corey Webster gets $8m, just a hair under what Eli Manning makes. Haha. I didn't know Maclin was not practicing yet due to an unknown illness. http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp11/story/_/id/6853488/jeremy-maclin-philadelphia-eagles-more-testing Given the latest reports this was a good pickup even if they overpaid him. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 12 2011 00:23 Hawk wrote: Yeah microfracture, but that's hardly career ending in 2011, esp on such a young dude. I can see the team's resistance to giving him a multi year, but the gmen low balled him on the 1 year as well. A dude who had a 100+ catch season just 16 games ago deserves to get $4m on a one year for sure and the giants werent offering I don't really think he's a great number 2 receiver. He had that really nice year in New York when Manningham, Nicks and Smith all had breakout or semi-breakout seasons - 2009? Plus he had that ligament damage, which isn't career ending, but robs athletes of leap and cut: Think 2003 Amar'e Stoudemire and 2008 Amar'e. On the other hand, I probably couldn't list...25? receivers I'd rather have and he's young, so it's definitely a fine signing. | ||
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Southlight
United States11766 Posts
*insert excited whoop* | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:45 Southlight wrote: LEE EVANS! *insert excited whoop* Lee Evans to the Ravens for a 4th round pick. Nice job by the Ravens. I know he is a great downfield threat, but I dont know much about the rest of his game. Edit - I didn't get to watch the Cowboys game yesterday, but the reports I read described exactly what I was expecting. Sloppy/Confused defense that has had 1 week to learn a new system. It still way too early to be worrying about it, and I have hope they will pick things up as pre-season progresses. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
Every year...the Detroit Lions are OP in the preseason...Then the NFL over-nerfs the Lions by starting the season and all hell breaks loose... | ||
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HyukeN
United States85 Posts
On August 11 2011 14:15 DannyJ wrote: Yeah funny how the pack is getting zero attention or hype. It's like the Eagles won teh SB last year. Kinda funny how the bullseye is on a team that didnt get passed the first round of the playoffs. Imagine if the packers had gotten a great RB and elite TE during the free agency. That's essentially what they did since Grant and Finley are coming back. Isn't almost their entire team from last year coming back healthy as well? I usually don't buy into teams repeating in the NFL, but i wouldnt be surprised at all if the Pack can do it this year. I remember an announcer saying Ryan Grant was just an average running back, nothing special. I tend to agree with that. I see him more as a product of circumstance. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:55 EliteAzn wrote: I have concluded this after listening to my Detroit Lions for a couple of minutes... Every year...the Detroit Lions are OP in the preseason...Then the NFL over-nerfs the Lions by starting the season and all hell breaks loose... When they went 4-0 in preseason and 0-16 a friend of mine in college got a shirt that said "Lions preseason champs" on it. lol | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 13 2011 09:14 HyukeN wrote: I remember an announcer saying Ryan Grant was just an average running back, nothing special. I tend to agree with that. I see him more as a product of circumstance. Tons of RBs are a product of circumstance. Having 2 straight 1200 yard seasons before getting hurt is better than just "average" though. He's definitely great compared to the crap RBs GB had last year. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 13 2011 12:45 DannyJ wrote: Tons of RBs are a product of circumstance. Having 2 straight 1200 yard seasons before getting hurt is better than just "average" though. He's definitely great compared to the crap RBs GB had last year. Tons but not all. Now lets all think happy thoughts and watch clips of Barry Sanders. Who in my opinion was one of the few players who simply saw the game at a completely different level. A game changer who cannot be replicated. Now lets all revel in awe: | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On August 13 2011 08:55 EliteAzn wrote: I have concluded this after listening to my Detroit Lions for a couple of minutes... Every year...the Detroit Lions are OP in the preseason...Then the NFL over-nerfs the Lions by starting the season and all hell breaks loose... It's probably because there's no pressure. If you ever watch the Lions play, they're competitive in every game, then they fall apart in the foruth quarter/second half. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 13 2011 15:49 Ferrose wrote: BloodNinja you're making me sad. Every time the Lions get a good RB, he retires (like Barry), suddenly sucks for no reason, or gets injured (like Mikel LeShoure) qq It's probably because there's no pressure. If you ever watch the Lions play, they're competitive in every game, then they fall apart in the foruth quarter/second half. Im sorry! As a VT grad I wished you the the best with Kevin Jones though it never worked out. Edit - That all being said ( IE me being a die-hard Dallas fan) I have zero issues with Sanders ranked as #1 over Smith. The man was that amazing and everyone lost out when he decided to leave the game. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On August 13 2011 13:45 BloodNinja wrote: Tons but not all. Now lets all think happy thoughts and watch clips of Barry Sanders. Who in my opinion was one of the few players who simply saw the game at a completely different level. A game changer who cannot be replicated. Now lets all revel in awe:+ Show Spoiler + Imagine if Barry Sanders had actually played behind a legit offensive line..... All of Sander's plays during most games were like 2,0,1,-3,2 then he'd bust a long TD because he was that good. What if he was getting 5+ yards per clip + busting long TDs. As it stands, he averaged 5.0 yards per carry... I have no doubt with a good offensive line it could've been more than 6+ which would be insane since the super bowl era began. --------------- Regardless, after the Skins/Steelers game last night I came away fairly impressed by our execution most of all. Only 2 penalties on our side all game which was impressive. Execution of ZBS and pass protection were all pretty good. Dline actually got some pressure and stops. Won't try to read into it too much since it's all vanilla, but it's looking like we are at least somewhat better than our 6-10 finish last year. Can't see how we are one of the worst teams in the NFL on most power rankings, lol. But stranger things have happened. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
I think most of us grew up before the days of Dickerson, Payton, Sayers, OJ, Campbell, and Jim Brown so it's hard to compare Barry to them (at least for us). Also I think it's hard to compare RBs from different eras... the game has evolved so much, you can't really predict how certain players would do in todays game and vice versa. Everyone who's old enough I've talked to says Jim Brown was the best RB ever though. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
Anyway, looking forward to some more preseason this week.... MNF preseason tomorrow, haha. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Fascists. | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 16 2011 06:25 DannyJ wrote: I like how their "football is back" commercial ends in a kick off return. Too bad they changed the rules now every kick will be a touchback. Fascists. I enjoyed reading about Chicago not following the rules for a half and no one noticing. Took a call from the league office at half-time to put a stop to it. The response by Lovie Smith to the press was pretty good. Pretty much said putting the ball at the 35 was an auto touch-back and he wanted to see his kickoff coverage in an actual coverage scenario. Also on the conspiracy theory front, the claim is the new kickoff rule was put in as a money grab. More touchbacks means more commercials means larger TV contracts. Even if it hurts the game. | ||
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
also, the niners are looking at Daunte Culpepper, who had more ints than TDs in the UFL, and hasn't played in the NFL since 2009 Why do I root for this team?? anywhoHere's my brother draft. It was a live, I had to help him by the phone and then he ended up leaving early :psyduck: 16 Team QB/WR2/RB2/TE/K/D Scoring is real odd. .5 ppr though. Completions .1 Receptions .5 Passing Yards 50 yards per point; 2 points at 300 yards; 4 points at 400 yards; 6 points at 500 yards 25 yards per point; 2 points at 300 yards; 4 points at 400 yards; 6 points at 500 yards Passing Touchdowns 6 Interceptions -2 Rushing Yards 25 yards per point; 2 points at 100 yards; 3 points at 150 yards; 4 points at 200 yards 10 yards per point; 2 points at 100 yards; 3 points at 150 yards; 4 points at 200 yards Rushing Touchdowns 6 Reception Yards 20 yards per point; 2 points at 100 yards; 4 points at 150 yards; 5 points at 200 yards 10 yards per point; 2 points at 100 yards; 4 points at 150 yards; 5 points at 200 yards Reception Touchdowns 6 Return Yards 50 yards per point; 2 points at 100 yards; 4 points at 200 yards Kyle Orton Larry Fitzgerald Steve Smith LeSean McCoy Felix Jones Zach Miller Rob Bironas Atlanta D Fred Jackson Rob Gronkowski Lance Moore Ben Tate Emmanuel Sanders Colt McCoy I wanted Biller Miller (NO TE) and he got Zack Miller instead. Besides that, I think it looks good, especially compared to others. We waited til the 4th for a QB because everyone went QB/RB in the first and he was pick 11. We went Mccoy, Fitz, Jones, Orton. One odd thing, and this should be important for all leagues, is that Chris Johnson dropped in this and mocks I did on my own. He was still available at 11 when we were up (he went with the next pick) | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8217dc97/Rex-Ryan-flips Rex captures the emotions of every Jets fan here so well. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On August 16 2011 09:20 BloodNinja wrote: I enjoyed reading about Chicago not following the rules for a half and no one noticing. Took a call from the league office at half-time to put a stop to it. The response by Lovie Smith to the press was pretty good. Pretty much said putting the ball at the 35 was an auto touch-back and he wanted to see his kickoff coverage in an actual coverage scenario. Also on the conspiracy theory front, the claim is the new kickoff rule was put in as a money grab. More touchbacks means more commercials means larger TV contracts. Even if it hurts the game. Clearly the solution is to intentionally get penalized for excessive celebration on every score. Then the ball is moved back 5 yards, exactly where Chicago wants it to be. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 16 2011 13:15 slyboogie wrote: That's actually not bad for a 16 team league. McCoy is good in PPR - he made it to pick 11?!? That's nutso wacko. Yeah. I convinced my brother to not be a moron and draft a qb in the first two rounds because all the elite ones were gone by the end of the 1st. I think like 6 QB went before pick 11 haha. Everyone in that league is pretty dumb and overvalues 6td passing. For fun, here's the first three rounds. Snake draft, our picks are * 1. Adrian Peterson (Min - RB) 2. Aaron Rodgers (GB - QB) 3. Michael Vick (Phi - QB) 4. Tom Brady (NE - QB) 5. Drew Brees (NO - QB) 6. Philip Rivers (SD - QB) 7. Arian Foster (Hou - RB) 8. Peyton Manning (Ind - QB) 9. Ray Rice (Bal - RB) 10. Matt Ryan (Atl - QB) 11. LeSean McCoy (Phi - RB) * 12. Roddy White (Atl - WR) 13. Chris Johnson (Ten - RB) 14. Jamaal Charles (KC - RB) 15. Andre Johnson (Hou - WR) 16. Matt Schaub (Hou - QB) Round 2 1. Maurice Jones-Drew (Jac - RB) 2. Michael Turner (Atl - RB) 3. Rashard Mendenhall (Pit - RB) 4. Ben Roethlisberger (Pit - QB) 5. Tony Romo (Dal - QB) 6. Larry Fitzgerald (Ari - WR) * 7. Calvin Johnson (Det - WR) 8. Mark Sanchez (NYJ - QB) 9. Hakeem Nicks (NYG - WR) 10. Joe Flacco (Bal - QB) 11. Steven Jackson (StL - RB) 12. Matt Forte (Chi - RB) 13. Frank Gore (SF - RB) 14. Greg Jennings (GB - WR) 15. Vincent Jackson (SD - WR) 16. Josh Freeman (TB - QB) Round 3 1. Mike Wallace (Pit - WR) 2. Peyton Hillis (Cle - RB) 3. DeSean Jackson (Phi - WR) 4. Dez Bryant (Dal - WR) 5. Antonio Gates (SD - TE) 6. Reggie Wayne (Ind - WR) 7. Darren McFadden (Oak - RB) 8. Jahvid Best (Det - RB) 9. Brandon Lloyd (Den - WR) 10. Ryan Mathews (SD - RB) 11. Felix Jones (Dal - RB) * 12. Marques Colston (NO - WR) 13. Miles Austin (Dal - WR) 14. Eli Manning (NYG - QB) 15. Ahmad Bradshaw (NYG - RB) 16. Wes Welker (NE - WR) Some major LOL picks there. Ryan in the first, Sanchez, flacco and freeman in the 2nd. Ryan Matthews and Gates in the 3rd. If the league members weren't such tools and allowed me to go to the live draft instead of helping my clueless brother over the phone, I would have crushed the league. The one thing of our selections that stands out to me is that we had a crack at Steven Jackson and Frank Gore and missed it, Taking Fitz instead. It works out bc we got F Jones who is gonna be a beast this year, but I think Jackson and Gore are due for very good years. They'll each get 250+ carries and 50 catches and somehow dropped low 2nd in a PPR. That's part the quality of the opponents here, part concerns about their respective teams and injuries | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 17 2011 01:34 slyboogie wrote: Yeah, Roddy White and Andre Johnson went really high, so I guess Fitz is okay there. I definitely would have grabbed Megatron before him but that's probably a toss-up. I also must hurt that McFadden and Ryan Matthews went just a few picks ahead of Felix Jones, haha. Eh, Fitz had 90 catches last year with a scrub rotation of QBs. I think Kolb will be good, but even if he's average at best, that's an imporvement over last year's QB situation and I think it will bode well for him. Megatron is a beast too, but I think Fitz is more reliable. I'd be happy with megatron there too though. If I didn't think I could land one of McFadden/F jones in the third, I'd probably have gone Gore/Jackson over Fitz/Mega there. Personally, I think Felix Jones is in a better spot than Run DMC and definitely Matthews. Matthews is in a clear timeshare with Tolbert and didn't do a whole lot last year. Felix is bumped to the top of the depth chart and was a beast running and catching last year. He's got what, Choice competing with him? I'll take that over McFadden playing on a meh raiders team and losing some carries to Michael Bush. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14892 Posts
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Ahmose
United States21 Posts
And my only complaint with this weekends past games were that Drew Brees looked 'meh', I don't think he took it too serious. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 17 2011 01:51 KOFgokuon wrote: bleh you can't expect anythign from frank gore except 4-5 missed games a year True he gets injured a lot. But the beauty of it this year is that everyone expects that, even moreso than past years because he actually missed a significant part of the season. He's 1st round talent who is going in the late 2nd in a lot of leagues after the elite RB/QB/WR start going. Depending on scoring and how you want to draft, he's a steal in the 2nd, even if he misses 2-4 games because he puts up elite averages (75 or 80 rush/game and 40yd rec/game iirc last year) I dunno, if I see him on when i'm in the 2nd in my leagues, it's an autodraft for me. I don't think it's really homer bias that is clouding that for me =] | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Dude, Gore has been very consistent. Look at his Games started. All running backs miss games - it's like saying pro gamers get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Yes, he missed tons of time last season but he's a tailback in the NFL. @Hawk You must not love McFadden as much as I do. But when both Felix and McFadden were at Arkansas and I remember being much more impressed by RunDMC; their pro careers have both been sorta whatevers - productive but not All Pro. I expect buku yards for McFadden this year though. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Cutler (7) A. Johnson (1) M. Wallace (3) S. Holmes (5) S. Jackson (2) F. Jones (4) K. Winslow (6) D. Akers Oakland B. Jacobs (8) L. Moore (9) L. Tomlinson (10) T. Jones (11) M. Sanchez (12) L. Murphy (13) I think I did really damn good, though a large part of it is hoping that and Cutler pans out. I was gonna wait til five for him, but that was the long wait for me and a lot of people still needed #2s. Most teams bit on early QB rushes so they ended up with one good QB and RB/WR and lesser guys after that. I feel I've got at least four legit studs, with a few guys who could potentially have who could be great as well. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 17 2011 03:09 Hawk wrote: Nah I think skillwise RunDMC is the real deal. I just think Michael Bush, provided he comes back (still in a hold out I think or something) is good enough to earn himself 100 or so carries a season. I can't see McFadden getting more that 250 carries unless Bush gets hurt. Felix Jones has to contend with Choice and that's it really, unless their 4th rounder or whatever works in. Granted, he could end up in a split of sorts as well, but I just think he doesn't have to contend with a quality backup for carries Dont sleep on Felix Jones this year. Wade Phillips has him put on weight to become more durable (and more of an every down back [which he isnt imo]) and it seemed to kill his explosiveness and top end speed. Obviously I am not the only one to think this as Jones has cut weight this year and appears to have that burst back. He will still split carries with Choice, but this will be a breakout year again for Jones imo. On a keeper league note, keep an eye on Demarco Murray from Oklahoma that the Cowboys drafted. The kid has fucking wheels and tied Adrian Peterson's freshman rookie record for TDs (also holds a number of records at Oklahoma [a run heavy school to say the least]). At times in college he legit looked like AP 2.0. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 19 2011 11:52 Hawk wrote: Yeah I drafted Jones in the one draft I did for my brother, and in several mocks. I think he beats out Choice easily for at least 70% of the carries. Jerry loves him some razorback players Its not that Jones (and Garrett) love the Razorbacks, its that Jones (and Garrett) love that ungodly speed and elusiveness that he showed his rookie year. He is back down to roughly the same weight again as rookie year. I also think he will get a majority of carries as well, I am not sure if it will be 70% but even at say 60(65)% he should put up good numbers. | ||
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Disciple7
United States198 Posts
http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/tools/draftrecap?leagueId=524138 Not sure if you guys can actually see that. If not, I'll post a screenshot if you guys are actually interested =P. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 19 2011 12:16 Disciple7 wrote: Here's the draft recap link for one of the TL drafts. I'm team solid, the percy harvin pick was a panic pick, should have taken boldin -_- (unless lee evans has the type of season he is capable of having). Otherwise I'm very happy with the draft, roy williams was a reach though also, and steve williams questionable. http://games.espn.go.com/ffl/tools/draftrecap?leagueId=524138 Not sure if you guys can actually see that. If not, I'll post a screenshot if you guys are actually interested =P. You went #1 on AP!!! Haven't you heard the hype? Vick wins leagues son!!! LOL! As for specific legit issues (imo): -I am not sold on McFadden, prob woulda taken Hillis myself. -You could have gotten Manning in R3.... I would have taken that in a heart beat. -Harvin was a reach. -Finley was a reach imo, although you appear to have started a TE bidding war which makes its much less bad of a pick. -I am never sold on drafting a D/ST before the LATE rounds. -Drafted a kicker in round 13/16. Wut? -Drafted a backup D. Not good, take a shot at some WR/RB -Drafted a backup TE. Not good, take a shot at some WR/RB. This is all imo, obviously. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3804 Posts
I'm glad that they show this now so they get a chance to fix whatever the problems are on offense. Defensively I'm sure the group just needs more time to gel and we missed both our run stopping DTs but... this was a shockingly poor defensive performance. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 19 2011 13:33 ShloobeR wrote: Wow eagles looked awful tonight. I'm glad that they show this now so they get a chance to fix whatever the problems are on offense. Defensively I'm sure the group just needs more time to gel and we missed both our run stopping DTs but... this was a shockingly poor defensive performance. No Philly just sucks.... (at least that is what I am hoping for somehow). Feel free to take a year or 2 to "gel" though. Edit - I actually just saw the highlights on ESPN. Dear god, Vick delivered a DAMN GOOD shot (this is for a QB) after throwing a pick. Mad props (from me) at getting angry during the preseason when no one else besides the 6th stringers who get cut 2 days later seem to care about it. (I still hope Philly takes 2 years to gel) | ||
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Disciple7
United States198 Posts
On August 19 2011 13:27 BloodNinja wrote: You went #1 on AP!!! Haven't you heard the hype? Vick wins leagues son!!! LOL! As for specific legit issues (imo): -I am not sold on McFadden, prob woulda taken Hillis myself. -You could have gotten Manning in R3.... I would have taken that in a heart beat. -Harvin was a reach. -Finley was a reach imo, although you appear to have started a TE bidding war which makes its much less bad of a pick. -I am never sold on drafting a D/ST before the LATE rounds. -Drafted a kicker in round 13/16. Wut? -Drafted a backup D. Not good, take a shot at some WR/RB -Drafted a backup TE. Not good, take a shot at some WR/RB. This is all imo, obviously. I debated Hillis/DMC in my head during the pick. I just felt that Hillis is a less prototypical runningback type, which scares me a little. Plus he's got the Madden Cover Curse =P. Also, as evidenced by my Hardesty pick, I believe he has some competition in the backfield if Hardesty stays healthy. To me, with a decent QB, Fitz>>>the rest of the receivers, while Peyton is just >MattRyan. The Finley pick was me filling out my starting roster first. It's a philosophy of mine. Also, I saw Clark go, which signaled to me that TE's weren't going to be around too long. The D/ST was again due to my philosophy, although it was too early now that I look at it. Especially because I got a ~= D/St much later as well. If I could go back and redo this pick, I think I would have taken Ryan Williams. Kicker pick, I really don't have any reasoning for o_o. I forget why I took him there. Was between him and Crosby though. Although now that I look again, I don't see anyone picked other than Lee Evans or Mike Williams (Seattle) that I would really want to take a shot on. Patriots D was too good to pass up D=. I like to play matchups as well. Rams fan. Lol. Last pick of the draft, it didn't matter to me since I can get anyone who was left anyway. Kendricks' preseason/camp = <3 I don't know though, I may be totally wrong. I usually play in a league with ~26 picks, so I get my sleepers in the later rounds after filling out my starters and atleast 1 backup each. My philosophies may not apply. Also *Steve Johnson for my last post. Btw weren't you going to be in this league? I saw you post on the thread, so I assumed you were in there. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
seriously, fuck this league if that's a goddamn penalty. There was another similar hit the other day that drew a flag + fine too I believe... what a fucking joke. What's the point of having a safety over top if you can't hammer the guy that was left out to dry by his dumb QB. I can see protecting WRs when they get hit really late in similar situations, but there was fractions of a second difference between the missed catch and him getting smoked. And it wasn't even helmet to helmet! | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:17 Hawk wrote: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Broncos-rookie-safety-Rahim-Moore-defends-devast;_ylt=ApaQAkFNNq3r_ci2wpgJFDbTrYZ4?urn=nfl-wp5513#comments seriously, fuck this league if that's a goddamn penalty. There was another similar hit the other day that drew a flag + fine too I believe... what a fucking joke. What's the point of having a safety over top if you can't hammer the guy that was left out to dry by his dumb QB. I can see protecting WRs when they get hit really late in similar situations, but there was fractions of a second difference between the missed catch and him getting smoked. And it wasn't even helmet to helmet! Don't worry, in 5 years it will be the NFFL (National Flag Football League). Then we won't have to worry about these silly fines or late hits ever again. Can any Broncos fans tell me what is up with Tebow? All I heard over the weekend was that he is looking aboslutley terrible and is easily the worst QB on the roster at this point. I heard someone on ESPN breakdown some of Tebow issues this offseason: Different release points when throwing to different parts of the field, terrible accuracy, staring down recievers as much as Jamarcus Russel. I personally didn't think Tebow would cut it as an NFL QB, but he had so much hype leading into this season it felt like. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 23 2011 02:05 BloodNinja wrote: Don't worry, in 5 years it will be the NFFL (National Flag Football League). Then we won't have to worry about these silly fines or late hits ever again. Can any Broncos fans tell me what is up with Tebow? All I heard over the weekend was that he is looking aboslutley terrible and is easily the worst QB on the roster at this point. I heard someone on ESPN breakdown some of Tebow issues this offseason: Different release points when throwing to different parts of the field, terrible accuracy, staring down recievers as much as Jamarcus Russel. I personally didn't think Tebow would cut it as an NFL QB, but he had so much hype leading into this season it felt like. JESUS DONT WANT ME FOR STARTING QB STARTING QBS ARE NOT MADE LIKE ME ![[image loading]](http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/tim-tebow-crying.jpg) | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On August 23 2011 01:17 Hawk wrote: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Broncos-rookie-safety-Rahim-Moore-defends-devast;_ylt=ApaQAkFNNq3r_ci2wpgJFDbTrYZ4?urn=nfl-wp5513#comments seriously, fuck this league if that's a goddamn penalty. There was another similar hit the other day that drew a flag + fine too I believe... what a fucking joke. What's the point of having a safety over top if you can't hammer the guy that was left out to dry by his dumb QB. I can see protecting WRs when they get hit really late in similar situations, but there was fractions of a second difference between the missed catch and him getting smoked. And it wasn't even helmet to helmet! Moore was obviously supposed to stop instantly from full speed and not hit the receiver. Jokes aside, Moore was running at the receiver to make him drop the ball/knock him out of bounds if he caught it. A clean football play. If he was trying to be a douche and hurt the receiver late on purpose, it's a definite penalty, but Moore was just trying to make a play on the ball, and when the receiver dropped it Moore was already committed and it's not like he could stop like he's in the Matrix. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On August 23 2011 03:18 DannyJ wrote: They basically just call plays fouls if it looks violent. What exactly happened in the play doesnt seem to matter. Yeah the hit on Ocho was another example... sure, it was helmet to helmet but it was practically unavoidable! WTF is the defender supposed to do?? Seriously, I understand the desire to prevent head injuries (I remember getting dizzy after on a few occasions) but they can't just penalize something that players have very little control over unless they try to change the entire game! (flag football anyone?) | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
And bonus chance for a penalty if the player who got hit is hurt. | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On August 23 2011 04:14 Ferrose wrote: Well the logic is that you're not supposed to be leading with your helmet in the first place. And bonus chance for a penalty if the player who got hit is hurt. It's one thing to penalize someone for "leading with the helmet" (sure, I get that) but penalize any incidental helmet to helmet contact... (or add to the penalty just b/c there was an injury - we'll start seeing players stay down soccer style..) ok I'm done ranting, hopefully they're just being extra cautious in the preseason to remind players to be careful. | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 23 2011 04:14 Ferrose wrote: Well the logic is that you're not supposed to be leading with your helmet in the first place. And bonus chance for a penalty if the player who got hit is hurt. I only saw the Ocho hit once, so I forget what that was like, but the one I posted was most definitely not helmet to helmet. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:34 Ferrose wrote: Of course the Raiders would take Terrelle Pryor. And they blew a 3rd round pick on him -_- They need to shift their name into a different subject in the news. All Oakland had going for it in the national news coverage was the brawls by fans during the game and a shooting after the 49ers Vs Raiders game (Not to mention the ending of the traditional 49ers/Raiders game as a result). | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:34 Ferrose wrote: Of course the Raiders would take Terrelle Pryor. And they blew a 3rd round pick on him -_- Did you see his 40 time? Of course they drafted him! | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
Of course the Raiders would take Terrelle Pryor. And they blew a 3rd round pick on him -_- There's no way he plays quaterback in the NFL. They'll be lucky to develop him into a receiver. He was overrated at Ohio St and that's going to show when he takes his first NFL snaps. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
I can't even remember the last young black qb that was given the "NFL" ready label. Frankly, until college teams start coaching black quarterbacks the same way they coach white ones, it's always going to be a risk. Again, I'm not a racist. The system produces risky prospects at the quarterback position. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
it's hardly a color thing there. There's plenty of white QBs who land in one of those college only type systems. Pretty much anyone Urban Meyer has coached is sure to blow ass as an NFL QB because his system plays almost exclusively out of the shotgun, relies heavily on QB rushing, and very quick reads--shit that does not translate over to the pro game at all due to much better d's, bigger defensive players and the general limitations of that package. Very few QBs are given the nfl ready label coming out, and the ones that are almost always played in a pro style offense. For example, the 49ers, in all their infinite wisdom (also known as Mike Nolan's fucking ego) decided to pass on Aaron Rodgers, who played in a pro system, for Alex Smith, who played in Urban Meyer's gimmicky fuck system. Shit it's just really hard to think of someone who was not in a college system recently. I think Gabbart was the only hgih profile pick from this past year. Auburn did not run anything complex with Newton | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
I think you hit the issue on the head though. The college game is fundamentally different than the NFL when you are discussing the speed at which a team plays. Its why sometimes physically gifted college athletes struggle in the NFL. That blazing college WR who blew by everyone now has to deal the biggest, most physical CBs he ha ever seen and they are still able to run with him down field. Same goes for mobile QBs that scrambled a lot in college (imo). | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 23 2011 13:45 Hawk wrote: uhhhhh, look at the systems that most of those qbs play in. Most black QBs come into college with superb running abilities, and their ability to make stuff happen outside of the pocket is what coaches utilize. The college game is highly built on speed, and that kind of talent is perfect for options, spreads and all that kind of stuff that is hardly used in the pro game at all. it's hardly a color thing there. There's plenty of white QBs who land in one of those college only type systems. Pretty much anyone Urban Meyer has coached is sure to blow ass as an NFL QB because his system plays almost exclusively out of the shotgun, relies heavily on QB rushing, and very quick reads--shit that does not translate over to the pro game at all due to much better d's, bigger defensive players and the general limitations of that package. Very few QBs are given the nfl ready label coming out, and the ones that are almost always played in a pro style offense. For example, the 49ers, in all their infinite wisdom (also known as Mike Nolan's fucking ego) decided to pass on Aaron Rodgers, who played in a pro system, for Alex Smith, who played in Urban Meyer's gimmicky fuck system. Shit it's just really hard to think of someone who was not in a college system recently. I think Gabbart was the only hgih profile pick from this past year. Auburn did not run anything complex with Newton Yeaaaah buddy Alex Smith... for what it's worth Aaron Rodgers came from a headcoach where previously "talented" college QBs failed to make the transition to the pros, so I think Smith was regarded as the safer pick at the time. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2039797 In regards to race, I would say it's hard to base the results because the sample size (for black QBs at least) is so small. In recent years though I'd say it's been rising though and you have your share of good players (Josh Freeman, Mike Vick... McNabb was good at one time I swear!), decent players (wassup David Garrad, you are like the epitome of the average NFL QB in my eyes), and duds (JaWalrus Russel, but seriously, who didn't see that one coming?)... you could certainly say the same for the majority of White QBs as well (Brady = good, Orton = soso, Alexis Smith = bad haha), although there are waaay more white QBs in the nfl. | ||
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
I shouldn't even say I'm surprised since it's the raiders lol. They always find a way to amuse. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
To some extent, it is sample size - but it's sample size because black qbs aren't given sufficient opportunity, even from a young age. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 23 2011 14:44 slyboogie wrote: Sam Bradford and Matthew Stafford were considered NFL ready. Andrew Luck is considered NFL ready. My point is, can you think of a single black qb to be given the label? Jason Campbell out of Auburn? Mcnabb out of Syracuse? To some extent, it is sample size - but it's sample size because black qbs aren't given sufficient opportunity, even from a young age. I think McNabb out of 'Cuse is one. Another might have Warren Moon coming out of Washington, but that is pretty far back and he went into the CFL first (though this touches on a bit of sidetrack on the black QB topic, aka the racism that was involved and how non-white QBs were unacceptable until recent history which was brought up earlier on, kinda, in the sample size comment) and Warren Moon didn't come into the NFL until the early 80s. Also, I don't think a lot of teams saw Campbell as NFL ready outside of Redskins (or more specifically Joe Gibbs). I thought the general consensus was the Skins reached massively for a QB who had the benefit of having 2 pro-bowl caliber talented RBs (at least in theory) in the backfield with him. This made him look much better than he actually was. | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
The college game is highly built on speed, and that kind of talent is perfect for options, spreads and all that kind of stuff that is hardly used in the pro game at all. This times a thousand. So many phenomenal athletes that come out of college that can run like the wind and make defenses look foolish. A bunch of them simply can't match the physicality + speed that all of the pros have ( See Reggie Bush). It makes finding an NFL ready player quite hard for any GM just because the transition is so difficult at the skill positions. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 23 2011 14:04 nemY wrote: Yeaaaah buddy Alex Smith... for what it's worth Aaron Rodgers came from a headcoach where previously "talented" college QBs failed to make the transition to the pros, so I think Smith was regarded as the safer pick at the time. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2039797 In regards to race, I would say it's hard to base the results because the sample size (for black QBs at least) is so small. In recent years though I'd say it's been rising though and you have your share of good players (Josh Freeman, Mike Vick... McNabb was good at one time I swear!), decent players (wassup David Garrad, you are like the epitome of the average NFL QB in my eyes), and duds (JaWalrus Russel, but seriously, who didn't see that one coming?)... you could certainly say the same for the majority of White QBs as well (Brady = good, Orton = soso, Alexis Smith = bad haha), although there are waaay more white QBs in the nfl. oh yeah being in a pro system doesnt necessarily mean you're gonna be good. It's just more apples to apples—your supergenius fuckhead qb doesn't have to learn how to take a goddamn snap from under center fuck As for Smith, I remember reading that, but I also definitely remember a lot of stuff about Meyer's spread vs that system, and how Smith's thing was he was smart and could overcome the limited playbook and short reads. I thought Akili was in a pro system when he came out. Freeman I tried looking up the other day because I thought he was as well. He was a boss in college though, and he could throw the ball too. With a lot of other high profile qbs that we're talking about here, if you paid any attention to them in college, you could tell their throwing abilities were hardly the focus. Cam had a very slim playbook. Vince Young, I could not understand for the life of me why anyone wanted to draft him considering he did not throw a good ball and maybe ran all of 20 plays, all from the SG. i can't think of more now but yeah, the reason there's not many black QBs in the nfl is because most of those guys are running non-pro offenses in college. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
On August 23 2011 14:44 slyboogie wrote: Sam Bradford and Matthew Stafford were considered NFL ready. Andrew Luck is considered NFL ready. My point is, can you think of a single black qb to be given the label? Jason Campbell out of Auburn? Mcnabb out of Syracuse? To some extent, it is sample size - but it's sample size because black qbs aren't given sufficient opportunity, even from a young age. Bradford also averaged a little under 70% completion in college, and had 50td to 8int the year before blowing out his shoulder. I was definitely surprised he went so high coming off of a major injury, but his talent was unparalleled, even coming from a spread. Most QBs are simply not that accurate, even when you lay everything out real simple. He also started since he was a freshman, and was a boss that first year as well. Stafford also started as a freshman in UGA, and ran a pro style offense for three years. He was a prototypical dropback guy with an arm. That was a no brainer. Jason Campbell was a bit more regarded than other black qbs because they had some kind of hybrid WC-option type of thing going on, but people also recognized he was highly protected by having a stable of killer RBs there. McNabb, I think a lot of people had to be sold on. He was a dominant college player, but played out of the option. People bit on him because he like went up 10% or something insane in accuracy in his final year while passing a lot more. I forget if he was billed as NFL ready, but he was looked at as someone who could definitely come in and do stuff eventually by everyone but Iggles fans. frankly, it's kind of ridiculous to make these kind of claims without looking at what type of system these QBs come from. NFL-ready players are almost always people who played in a pro style offense. THat's what the phrase means—there is no learning a system that is unlike anything the player has ever seen before. Spreads limit the reads, have much smaller playbooks, etc etc. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
LOL Bears. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 23 2011 13:45 Hawk wrote: uhhhhh, look at the systems that most of those qbs play in. Most black QBs come into college with superb running abilities, and their ability to make stuff happen outside of the pocket is what coaches utilize. The college game is highly built on speed, and that kind of talent is perfect for options, spreads and all that kind of stuff that is hardly used in the pro game at all. it's hardly a color thing there. There's plenty of white QBs who land in one of those college only type systems. Pretty much anyone Urban Meyer has coached is sure to blow ass as an NFL QB because his system plays almost exclusively out of the shotgun, relies heavily on QB rushing, and very quick reads--shit that does not translate over to the pro game at all due to much better d's, bigger defensive players and the general limitations of that package. Very few QBs are given the nfl ready label coming out, and the ones that are almost always played in a pro style offense. For example, the 49ers, in all their infinite wisdom (also known as Mike Nolan's fucking ego) decided to pass on Aaron Rodgers, who played in a pro system, for Alex Smith, who played in Urban Meyer's gimmicky fuck system. Shit it's just really hard to think of someone who was not in a college system recently. I think Gabbart was the only hgih profile pick from this past year. Auburn did not run anything complex with Newton Two names: Andrew Luck. That dude is gonna be nasty as fuck. Also Sam Bradford did not play in a completely college style system. I think he was under center a lot more, and had the standard 3, 5, 7 step drops. It's the reason he's transitioned so well into the pros. But I don't really watch college football, because it's gay. [Apparently this is wrong; regardless, my final sentence and the ensuing paragraph stand: College ball is gay as fuck.] This is the biggest reason I'm not a fan of college football. To me, it should be like basketball, a minor league game to the pros. Although, imo, I think every sport should adopt baseball's format and get rid of college sports and make a minor league to develop talent. This would be greatly beneficial to the NFL teams, because they could spend time developing new talent that needed to be developed with real playing time, instead of making him wait his turn while riding the pine and never gaining real game experience beyond a few snaps each preseason and in practice. The masses of players that are pro ready (guys like Bradford, AP, etc) could play immediately. The game as we see it now would be nearly unimpacted by this, except the college game, which is stupid anyway. I really don't get why it's cool to see a QB sweep right then pitch it back to a HB over and over again. It's stupid as shit to me, and pretty much destroys the other half of an offensive game (passing the ball) . . . it's like watching pee-wee football to me. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 23 2011 22:55 Hawk wrote: Bradford also averaged a little under 70% completion in college, and had 50td to 8int the year before blowing out his shoulder. I was definitely surprised he went so high coming off of a major injury, but his talent was unparalleled, even coming from a spread. Most QBs are simply not that accurate, even when you lay everything out real simple. He also started since he was a freshman, and was a boss that first year as well. Stafford also started as a freshman in UGA, and ran a pro style offense for three years. He was a prototypical dropback guy with an arm. That was a no brainer. Jason Campbell was a bit more regarded than other black qbs because they had some kind of hybrid WC-option type of thing going on, but people also recognized he was highly protected by having a stable of killer RBs there. McNabb, I think a lot of people had to be sold on. He was a dominant college player, but played out of the option. People bit on him because he like went up 10% or something insane in accuracy in his final year while passing a lot more. I forget if he was billed as NFL ready, but he was looked at as someone who could definitely come in and do stuff eventually by everyone but Iggles fans. frankly, it's kind of ridiculous to make these kind of claims without looking at what type of system these QBs come from. NFL-ready players are almost always people who played in a pro style offense. THat's what the phrase means—there is no learning a system that is unlike anything the player has ever seen before. Spreads limit the reads, have much smaller playbooks, etc etc. That's the point he's making: black QB's often get thrown into gimmicky systems that don't translate to the pros, because they're seen as "athletes" and not as "quarterbacks" like the white players that come out highly touted at the same position are. Imo, he's absolutely correct. If you were to train a black kid from the time he was in middle school to high school (no one uses standard drops in pee-wee football), you'd probably see an excellent QB coming out of college. The thing is, everyone gets so caught up in their ability to run the ball, and their athleticism, that they ruin their potential as an NFL QB. It has nothing to do with skin color, intelligence, etc, but has everything to do with the systems they are brought up in. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
Why should a college or high school coach give two shits about implementing a system that cultivates NFL ready qbs?? You're paid to coach to win on that level, and there, you've gotta deal with the talent you're given. I see it as no different than having a qb with a cannon for an arm and deciding you're gonna call plays that stetch the field, or implementing a WCO if you've got an accurate dude without range. Why try to make a drop back passer out of someone who is an average thrower and plays outside of the pocket a lot? Vick is a perfect example. He only became successful when a coach tried building his gameplan around Vick, not bending Vick to do shit he can't do well to fit the gameplan. He runs a very limited offense that is tailored around his running abilities, the deep ball and shot dumpoffs—the strength of vick and the personnel around him and the gimmicky thing, I say that from an NFL fan perspective. It's hardly a gimmick in college because spreads, options and all that crazy shit works because the defenses generally blow and in such a large league, there's gonna be a lot of players that are much, much better than others. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On August 24 2011 03:12 slyboogie wrote: Well no, they don't have to run an offense that's "pro" just to be "pro." that's not really what I'm saying. I'm just saying that black quarterbacks aren't wellsuited for the NFL, not because of their race or intelligence, they are just rarely taught to run one. It's just unfortunate, in another universe, Jamarcus Russell might have been Carson Palmer. He is now. They are both unemployed. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32028 Posts
boom! On August 24 2011 03:12 slyboogie wrote: Well no, they don't have to run an offense that's "pro" just to be "pro." that's not really what I'm saying. I'm just saying that black quarterbacks aren't wellsuited for the NFL, not because of their race or intelligence, they are just rarely taught to run one. It's just unfortunate, in another universe, Jamarcus Russell might have been Carson Palmer. Russell's failure in the NFL was 100% him not giving a flying fuck. He did not try at all, and admitted as much too I'm trying to google now, but I'm almost positive LSU was running a run heavy, pro styled offense at the time too. also going back to black qbs who played in pro style offenses, almost positive that Byron Leftwich was one and was pretty touted coming out as a NFL ready QB. but yeah, I agree, the reason is that black qb typically tend to be good runners, and college teams will build around that and not focus on advanced passing because it's not necessary | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
It's not Jamarcus vs Carson. Obviously there are white qb busts. Just, black qbs always bust, so I wouldn't draft one in the first round to huge guaranteed money. I'm just saying it isn't the players' fault. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
College football has a tendency to destroy good runners as qbs. It's akin to late bloomers usually having more success than early bloomers later on in life. The early bloomers either don't develop the necessary work ethic and proper fundamentals or they get used to all sorts of bad habits because they developed their talent earlier in life. There's a reason both Vince Young and Tim Tebow have infamous awkward throwing motions that their NFL coaches are trying to correct. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Now Phillip Rivers certainly has an awkward throwing motion, but that ball gets shot out like a bullet. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
hahahahahhahahahaha | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 24 2011 06:55 slyboogie wrote: Jamarcus played from the shotgun. His wideouts were Early Doucet and Dwayne Bowe on either side. It was a couple of over-recruited LSU team. Jamarcus Russell is, basically, black Carson Palmer: 6'5 and 250(Not that Russell has been in shape for 3 seasons.) Both went number one in their draft years and both won huge bowl games with fantastic college careers. It's not Jamarcus vs Carson. Obviously there are white qb busts. Just, black qbs always bust, so I wouldn't draft one in the first round to huge guaranteed money. I'm just saying it isn't the players' fault. Uhh... Josh Freeman, Michael Vick, Donnovan McNabb, and David Garrard would all beg to differ with your opinion. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:56 nemY wrote: Uhh... Josh Freeman, Michael Vick, Donnovan McNabb, and David Garrard would all beg to differ with your opinion. Change always to usually. Garrard is probably going to lose his job this season, so he shouldn't really count anymore, though the problems on that team extend far beyond him, and the eminent demotion may be undeserved. On August 24 2011 07:08 andrewlt wrote: Yes, I'm pretty sure Byron Leftwich was touted as an NFL ready QB. His secret is that he's immobile, so he was able to develop and be taught some passing ability in college. College football has a tendency to destroy good runners as qbs. It's akin to late bloomers usually having more success than early bloomers later on in life. The early bloomers either don't develop the necessary work ethic and proper fundamentals or they get used to all sorts of bad habits because they developed their talent earlier in life. There's a reason both Vince Young and Tim Tebow have infamous awkward throwing motions that their NFL coaches are trying to correct. That's almost a fundamental truth of life. People that are forced to work harder at a young age typically fair better as adults, I think. Gifted people are too used to things just falling their way, when challenges arise, they give in quickly I think. Either way, good point. I wish the NFL would step in and do something about Mike Brown. The Carson Palmer situation ices the cake on how bad of an owner he is. The guy wants off your team, and will pull a great offer from a lot of teams (almost guaranteed a first round pick and a third round pick). Instead, this dipshit would rather his players just retire and get nothing for them. It's absolutely idiotic management over there. It's so frustrating to watch . . . and it's clear that it's not a Chad Johnson thing, or Palmer thing . . . no one really wants to play there. What a joke that situation is. Cincy fans should boycott the team, empty the fucking stadium out every game until Brown relinquishes control of the team or sells: no point in keeping an unprofitable business. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
Edit - It appears we here at TL are ahead of the national football discussion curve. Today's discussion on Mike and Mike was largely about "NFL Ready" QBs. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 24 2011 16:09 BloodNinja wrote: @SweetLemons - Ironically (?) your second response could also be used as a follow-up for your third response. About the only thing Mike Brown has done right is being born to the legend Paul Brown. Its pretty much been all downhill from there for the Bengals. Edit - It appears we here at TL are ahead of the national football discussion curve. Today's discussion on Mike and Mike was largely about "NFL Ready" QBs. I love that Green still thinks that Vick is going to change the landscape of NFL QB's. He's a one in a million hit, and when teams find his flaws, they are absolutely massive. So, sure, if thirty more guys with incredible speed and agility, that can throw the ball 70 yards, with limited mid-range accuracy and decent short range accuracy come into the league . . . he'll have changed the landscape of the QB position, the thing is, not many guys exist like that. Further, he still hasn't won a Super Bowl. Vick's record in big moments is far from thrilling. Even the great escapist (or rapist, depending on your view) hasn't exactly been stunning in many of his big games. He had a great run leading to his first SB, and then a terrible SB. The second one, he had a good post season and a great SB, then he had a bad post season, and bad SB (look up the stats for yourself if you'd like). The pure drop back, pocket QB is still the absolute best option. Yeah, there are some exceptions to the rule, Rodgers, Ben (as much as I hate him), and Vick (with his limited success), but look at the majority of the top QB's in the league. Mostly immobile to semi-mobile passers, with great accuracy. I'm just tired of all these pundits getting wrapped up in the excitement, as a casual fan would be: they're supposed to be better and more knowledgeable than that. An incredibly rare exception will not change the rule. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14892 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 25 2011 04:04 KOFgokuon wrote: eh, I would still prefer to have someone that can at least MOVE in the pocket. I mean Tom Brady isn't fast by any means and he's certainly a drop back under center qb that doesn't look to run, but he does move around pretty well to avoid rushes. Same with Drew Brees. He isn't nearly as slow and clunky as Peyton or Palmer Peyton Manning has excellent pocket presence, and pocket footwork, just as Brady does. Neither guy is statuesque in the pocket. They use minor movements to throw defenders off. Step up, or to the side, a shoulder roll. I think that maybe I misspoke (typed?) a bit when I said that a pure pocket guy is ideal. To me, the ideal QB for all around play is someone like Brees or Rodgers. Someone that can scramble around a bit, and maybe take off for 10-15 occasionally when absolutely nothing is there, or if a play has broken down horribly. Brees and Rodgers are what I would define as semi-mobile. Because guys like Manning, Brady, Palmer . . . I can't really think of a lot more, those guys are about as close to immobile as you get (except someone like Bledsblow), and someone like Vick, VY, McNabb, Freeman . . . those are pretty mobile to very mobile QB's. Still, you can't argue with the success of pure drop back, pocket guys. I don't think we're disagreeing by any stretch, though. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:23 BloodNinja wrote: Did someone say Tony Romo? Being good is the first requirement. If he didn't suck, he would be awesome. hahaha Seriously though, Tony Romo defines the term "average QB" in my mind. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 24 2011 11:56 nemY wrote: Uhh... Josh Freeman, Michael Vick, Donnovan McNabb, and David Garrard would all beg to differ with your opinion. Really, Donovan McNabb is the only unmitigated success in that list. David Garrard is miles away, you may as well say Aaron Brooks was a success in the fourth round. I guess Josh Freeman could be a Ben Roethlisberger type QB. Look, maybe "always bust" was a bad choice of words and I can understand why people disagree with my basic point but I've thought about it for some time. I just wouldn't draft a black QB in the first round if I owned a football team in the current environment. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:32 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Being good is the first requirement. If he didn't suck, he would be awesome. hahaha Seriously though, Tony Romo defines the term "average QB" in my mind. I thought the conversation was a pocket QB who also has the ability to take off on a broken play. Someone who can make a play with his feet if needed. As for skill he isn't Rogers or Brees, but he is definitely above average. That is a completely separate discussion though. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:33 slyboogie wrote: Really, Donovan McNabb is the only unmitigated success in that list. David Garrard is miles away, you may as well say Aaron Brooks was a success in the fourth round. I guess Josh Freeman could be a Ben Roethlisberger type QB. Look, maybe "always bust" was a bad choice of words and I can understand why people disagree with my basic point but I've thought about it for some time. I just wouldn't draft a black QB in the first round if I owned a football team in the current environment. In regards to David Garrard, not a lot of 4th rd or later draft picks develop into decent starting QBs. For every Tom Brady, Tony Romo or Matt Cassel (I'm running low on examples here lol) there's a plethora of mid/late rd QBs who are drafted/signed as rookie FAs who do nothing in the NFL. I would call Garrard a success (although I agree with SweetLemons that he's on his way out). I get what your saying about race being a determining factor in a QBs grade. I'm just saying you've got to look deeper into it than just race. I wouldn't have picked Cam Newton with the first pick if I were the Panthers because there are a lot of things that concern me about him. Maybe he'll go on to prove me wrong, maybe he won't. At the same time I'm ok with the 49ers drafting CK in the early second round because while he's definitely raw (and a bit of a reach in my eyes) the Raiders were vying for him and you know the Raiders will reach on anybody if they really want to draft that player | ||
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