EPTBattlefield 3 - Page 160
| Forum Index > General Games |
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
| ||
|
Phtes
United States370 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:01 Torte de Lini wrote: Why are you quoting me and saying that? I was wondering the same, think its directed at Mr BG42 map modder of awesomely godness | ||
|
dranko
Sweden378 Posts
Edited it a bit. | ||
|
askTeivospy
1525 Posts
On October 02 2011 09:47 Torte de Lini wrote: They're not pretentious. They're clear observations that you take things literal and without a grain of salt. Rush means X for you and Tactical means Y for you. When you can consider the possibility that your connation of words are way off, then maybe you won't be so snarky ._. Rush doesn't necessarily mean rushing and throwing yourselves at the objective. That's obvious because after activating the bomb, you have to hold the area. Hardly a form of rushing or anything related to that. yes it was pretentious, at least in my opinion but idc thats how i infer it Anyways my definition of running and gunning is what I assume most peoples is: run and gun with your closest battle buddies to achieve the objective my definition of tactical is probably different but practically speaking from what I see in game its spot on: playing slow and scared now if you're doing the "gunning" part correctly in the "run and gun" phrase then holding something off shouldn't be hard as long as you kill like 2 or 3 waves of defenders or delay them significantly EXAMPLE First you run to point A, clear it out so you can move to B, clear it out so you can move to C, clear it out so you can arm bombsite A, Delay Delay Delay Delay Delay kablAOW* First you prone move to point A and sit behind cover so you can plot your next move*, then you get up and move forward because someone armed bombsite A *Yes its prone to quick failing if your run and gun fails <- generally quick fail is because people are too slow following up behind you or you "assume" your back is safe because theres people behind you but you get shot since they're too busy being blinded by the tactical bush they're in Edit- conquest is completely different ofc but rush is e z like that. I don't really like rush because of it since thats all you have to do but its a nice break | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:11 askTeivospy wrote: yes it was pretentious, at least in my opinion but idc thats how i infer it Anyways my definition of running and gunning is what I assume most peoples is: run and gun with your closest battle buddies to achieve the objective my definition of tactical is probably different but practically speaking from what I see in game its spot on: playing slow and scared now if you're doing the "gunning" part correctly in the "run and gun" phrase then holding something off shouldn't be hard as long as you kill like 2 or 3 waves of defenders or delay them significantly EXAMPLE First you run to point A, clear it out so you can move to B, clear it out so you can move to C, clear it out so you can arm bombsite A, Delay Delay Delay Delay Delay kablAOW* First you prone move to point A and sit behind cover so you can plot your next move*, then you get up and move forward because someone armed bombsite A *Yes its prone to quick failing if your run and gun fails <- generally quick fail is because people are too slow following up behind you or you "assume" your back is safe because theres people behind you but you get shot since they're too busy being blinded by the tactical bush they're in Edit- conquest is completely different ofc but rush is e z like that. I don't really like rush because of it since thats all you have to do but its a nice break It's obvious that your opening statements are what I said: lack of varied definitions. Running and gunning involves literally what it is: running and gunning people down until you die, then you do it again. Since there are no lives in most modes of Call of Duty, you can die, respawn and try and get the highest score the fasted. Battlefield has a ticket system to tax people who play like that. Tactical doesn't mean slower and scared, it means slower (in comparison to running and gunning, for obvious reasons) to properly assert how you will approach a situation: minimize losses, effectively achieve the objective and cripple the opponent. That's why people keep saying Rush is being played wrong there is no communication which is clear. It's slower in killing people, it's the fastest in achieving the objective because you do it in one attempt (if properly executed). This is why your viewpoint is not only narrow, but a bit blind on the concepts of differentiating shooter games. We're not pretentious, you're just acting ignorant. Here's how Rush is done for me: Go to A, plant A have allies sit around the various entrances of Point A while the other half the team runs to B and plants B. Since the enemies will be trying to stop A as well as shooting those covering A (the attackers), those running to B will be more liberated and free to setup and cover B in case A is taken down or is successful. | ||
|
zoLo
United States5896 Posts
| ||
|
Phtes
United States370 Posts
Tactical Flashlight - Tactical lights also serve a role as a method of non-lethal force, used to temporarily blind and disorient targets. In BF3 they definitely do such, and if you have looked at one in RL it is the same effect as in game, and on a side note have total fucked me in airsoft xD Currently the only problem I have is that you cant tell if its on or off, so that awesome partner next to you with it on, will run into brush with you and give you away -.- | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
In addition, the flashing light blinds you as if you were watching from a screen and not as a person's general eye. It's also stupid to also blind your teammates with it. So you have the lack of realism with the flashlight and the lacking ally troll prevention. | ||
|
askTeivospy
1525 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:29 Torte de Lini wrote: It's obvious that your opening statements are what I said: lack of varied definitions. Running and gunning involves literally what it is: running and gunning people down until you die, then you do it again. Since there are no lives in most modes of Call of Duty, you can die, respawn and try and get the highest score the fasted. Battlefield has a ticket system to tax people who play like that. Tactical doesn't mean slower and scared, it means slower (in comparison to running and gunning, for obvious reasons) to properly assert how you will approach a situation: minimize losses, effectively achieve the objective and cripple the opponent. That's why people keep saying Rush is being played wrong there is no communication which is clear. It's slower in killing people, it's the fastest in achieving the objective because you do it in one attempt (if properly executed). This is why your viewpoint is not only narrow, but a bit blind on the concepts of differentiating shooter games. We're not pretentious, you're just acting ignorant. Here's how Rush is done for me: Go to A, plant A have allies sit around the various entrances of Point A while the other half the team runs to B and plants B. Since the enemies will be trying to stop A as well as shooting those covering A (the attackers), those running to B will be more liberated and free to setup and cover B in case A is taken down or is successful. We aren't going to agree and im too lazy to argue. All ima say is that your strategy which relies on a tactical approach is nothing more than common sense which can also be done through a run and gun approach by people who don't cling to their stats and just want to win, Either can win so it comes down to preference I guess and my preference is for my team to actually move up instead of being scared PS I said what you *said* was "pretentious". As far as I am concerned any single sentence thats an insult gives a very pretentious vibe. I didn't call you or anyone else pretentious. Don't twist my words ktHX What is everyone's favorite class and weapon so far? My personal favorite has always been assault since the old BF2 days. As for the weapons, I keep going back to the M16 with ACOG, foregrip, and tactical flashlight. It's also the standard load out for U.S. soldiers if anyone is into the military. The M16 may not be the greatest rifle to some, but I like using it more than the M416 and other weapons. I haven't really tried all of them yet since im mostly just playing to get the feel of the game at the moment (its hard since theres only one map and I don't really like Metro) but I've been using the SCAR with a bipod, heavy barrel and red dot / holo a lot as an engineer. I think using an optic with some scope would be better. SCAR clip size is bad but I still have fun with it considering it absolutely owns hallways and the quick set up time for bipod lets you back up and reload quickly EOD bot is fucking awesome too, so ive just been driving it around for the hell of it | ||
|
Phtes
United States370 Posts
About the human eye thing, I don't think you can do much about that without removing alot of the flashlights use, unless you want big colorful spots all over your screen instead like a human eye would do after viewing it directly, =O | ||
|
askTeivospy
1525 Posts
It's also stupid to also blind your teammates with it. So you have the lack of realism with the flashlight and the lacking ally troll prevention. You can turn off the flashlight according to keybinds, I don't use the flashlight though so i'm not actually sure if that function is in the beta. I think the flashlight is fine though. It gives away your position really really easily (you can see someone walking up behind a corner if you notice theres light on the wall) and I think its fair to expect a massive disadvantage if you're CQB with someone shining that in your face teammates shining it is annoying yeah but its not that big of a deal for me | ||
|
hellsan631
United States695 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:29 Torte de Lini wrote: It's obvious that your opening statements are what I said: lack of varied definitions. Running and gunning involves literally what it is: running and gunning people down until you die, then you do it again. Since there are no lives in most modes of Call of Duty, you can die, respawn and try and get the highest score the fasted. Battlefield has a ticket system to tax people who play like that. Tactical doesn't mean slower and scared, it means slower (in comparison to running and gunning, for obvious reasons) to properly assert how you will approach a situation: minimize losses, effectively achieve the objective and cripple the opponent. That's why people keep saying Rush is being played wrong there is no communication which is clear. It's slower in killing people, it's the fastest in achieving the objective because you do it in one attempt (if properly executed). This is why your viewpoint is not only narrow, but a bit blind on the concepts of differentiating shooter games. We're not pretentious, you're just acting ignorant. Here's how Rush is done for me: Go to A, plant A have allies sit around the various entrances of Point A while the other half the team runs to B and plants B. Since the enemies will be trying to stop A as well as shooting those covering A (the attackers), those running to B will be more liberated and free to setup and cover B in case A is taken down or is successful. I run and gun and have no issue with it. Currently 1.7 w/l ratio, 1.8 k/d ratio, and 600+ score a min over 10 hours. If you can kill 2+ people near an objective, you can open that area up for your team to advance. I really dislike it when my teammates are slow pokes, because they get pinned down too easily. If you aren't running around, then your stuck under fire. You can play rush your way, but your never going to be a consistent MVP in servers, because you won't actually be doing enough. In metro, you plant B first, because its the easiest to get cover over. Plant B and you can get the Flank off and secure A. There a several ways of playing the object based rush, but for me, I 80% go for a kill over an objective. What each gives you A Kill - Save a team mate, secure ground, force other enemy to take cover A Bomb Plant - Some Enemy focus is drawn to target. Personally, I don't like planting because it only gives you 100 for plant, 200 for success. Not much when considering killing an enemy can give you about the same if you get savior, headshot, revenge, and that it gives you medals and progress as well. BF3's reward system is built on kills, not objectives. ON another note of the flashlight. I don't use it, and when my enemy does, he usually dies. At long or short range, if you just aim in the middle of the light, you will hit their center bodymass. Its a big indicator of "hey im here, shoot/suppress me", and since it gets rid of bunch of the color difference of friend/foe against the background texture, (because of the increase of light on an enemy body), I often times find that I can start shooting at flashlight man before he gets a shot off at me. | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:53 askTeivospy wrote: We aren't going to agree and im too lazy to argue. All ima say is that your strategy which relies on a tactical approach is nothing more than common sense which can also be done through a run and gun approach by people who don't cling to their stats and just want to win, Either can win so it comes down to preference I guess and my preference is for my team to actually move up instead of being scared PS I said what you *said* was "pretentious". As far as I am concerned any single sentence thats an insult gives a very pretentious vibe. I didn't call you or anyone else pretentious. Don't twist my words ktHX Saying it's preference is fine. What you said before was blatantly wrong and ignorant: ugh no, id rather have CoD players on my team than tactical ghost recon metal gear solid idiots that just sit in bushes and push up way too slowly because they're in sTeAlTh mOdE Its called "RUSH". I know plenty of people who just started playing with Bad Company 2 who are literally better than you "oh im a BF veteran i know more things than u do" types. Face it, its because of people like us that ALLOW you to do your stupid stealth tactics in a game where spamming Q in any direction will light up 3 "stealth pro tactic" people because of spotting What I'm saying isn't pretentious, it's simply accurate by your mannerisms and approach in disagreeing with people. It's an observation meant to underline how you're acting rather than calling you something to hurt. If anything, I'm being patronizing. By the way: cooperation and communication is common sense. Elaborating a plan like what I mentioned without proper communication with everyone isn't easy and nor should it be implied with your "common sense" ideals. | ||
|
Phtes
United States370 Posts
I run and gun and have no issue with it. Currently 1.7 w/l ratio, 1.8 k/d ratio, and 600+ score a min over 10 hours. If you can kill 2+ people near an objective, you can open that area up for your team to advance. I really dislike it when my teammates are slow pokes, because they get pinned down too easily. If you aren't running around, then your stuck under fire. You can play rush your way, but your never going to be a consistent MVP in servers, because you won't actually be doing enough. In metro, you plant B first, because its the easiest to get cover over. Plant B and you can get the Flank off and secure A. There a several ways of playing the object based rush, but for me, I 80% go for a kill over an objective. What each gives you A Kill - Save a team mate, secure ground, force other enemy to take cover A Bomb Plant - Some Enemy focus is drawn to target. Personally, I don't like planting because it only gives you 100 for plant, 200 for success. Not much when considering killing an enemy can give you about the same if you get savior, headshot, revenge, and that it gives you medals and progress as well. BF3's reward system is built on kills, not objectives. You really just linked K/D in a BF3 thread?...Also your talking about points and MVP, This is not CoD, that shit does not matter, dont talk about it Also constantly rushing B becomes a very easy to coutner tactic if your doing it constantly, predictablilty in your strategy will get you many losses or any semi decent player on opposing team will just lol at you all day. | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:56 hellsan631 wrote: I run and gun and have no issue with it. Currently 1.7 w/l ratio, 1.8 k/d ratio, and 600+ score a min over 10 hours. If you can kill 2+ people near an objective, you can open that area up for your team to advance. I really dislike it when my teammates are slow pokes, because they get pinned down too easily. If you aren't running around, then your stuck under fire. You can play rush your way, but your never going to be a consistent MVP in servers, because you won't actually be doing enough. In metro, you plant B first, because its the easiest to get cover over. Plant B and you can get the Flank off and secure A. There a several ways of playing the object based rush, but for me, I 80% go for a kill over an objective. What each gives you A Kill - Save a team mate, secure ground, force other enemy to take cover A Bomb Plant - Some Enemy focus is drawn to target. Personally, I don't like planting because it only gives you 100 for plant, 200 for success. Not much when considering killing an enemy can give you about the same if you get savior, headshot, revenge, and that it gives you medals and progress as well. BF3's reward system is built on kills, not objectives. ON another note of the flashlight. I don't use it, and when my enemy does, he usually dies. At long or short range, if you just aim in the middle of the light, you will hit their center bodymass. Its a big indicator of "hey im here, shoot/suppress me", and since it gets rid of bunch of the color difference of friend/foe against the background texture, (because of the increase of light on an enemy body), I often times find that I can start shooting at flashlight man before he gets a shot off at me. BF3's reward system is based on contribution, not kills. This is obvious. Objectives also give you rewards, obvious as well. Not saying you can be rewarded purely on being a pacifist, but your statement is off. We're not debating preference, running and gunning is fine, but the guy above is clearly mistaken in his original comment and not falling back on: "It's preference" | ||
|
askTeivospy
1525 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:56 hellsan631 wrote: I run and gun and have no issue with it. Currently 1.7 w/l ratio, 1.8 k/d ratio, and 600+ score a min over 10 hours. If you can kill 2+ people near an objective, you can open that area up for your team to advance. I really dislike it when my teammates are slow pokes, because they get pinned down too easily. If you aren't running around, then your stuck under fire. You can play rush your way, but your never going to be a consistent MVP in servers, because you won't actually be doing enough. In metro, you plant B first, because its the easiest to get cover over. Plant B and you can get the Flank off and secure A. There a several ways of playing the object based rush, but for me, I 80% go for a kill over an objective. What each gives you A Kill - Save a team mate, secure ground, force other enemy to take cover A Bomb Plant - Some Enemy focus is drawn to target. Personally, I don't like planting because it only gives you 100 for plant, 200 for success. Not much when considering killing an enemy can give you about the same if you get savior, headshot, revenge, and that it gives you medals and progress as well. BF3's reward system is built on kills, not objectives. Yeah me and my group go for B as well at the start, not so much the cover but also because the enemy usually doesn't get set up before we can (the cover at B is superior though) Usually one of us sits at the smoking car behind the cover of smoke that it gives off and spots / shoot at people that come over the hill / at the bomb. You're also guarded from the sniper camp along the coast because of the tree. The other guys sit at the rocks and guard the hedges while the person who activates the bomb just tries and delays. It works out really well for us at least (so far the only weakness is if teammates behind us let the enemy come up that road so the guy whos behind the smoke needs to watch 360 degrees instead of just 180) | ||
|
Phtes
United States370 Posts
On October 02 2011 10:56 askTeivospy wrote: You can turn off the flashlight according to keybinds, I don't use the flashlight though so i'm not actually sure if that function is in the beta. I think the flashlight is fine though. It gives away your position really really easily (you can see someone walking up behind a corner if you notice theres light on the wall) and I think its fair to expect a massive disadvantage if you're CQB with someone shining that in your face teammates shining it is annoying yeah but its not that big of a deal for me From waht I've been told the hotkey is T the problem is you dont know if its on or off because hte HUD currently doesnt say, as well as not showing your sprint bar. | ||
|
Phtes
United States370 Posts
On October 02 2011 11:02 askTeivospy wrote: Yeah me and my group go for B as well at the start, not so much the cover but also because the enemy usually doesn't get set up before we can (the cover at B is superior though) Usually one of us sits at the smoking car behind the cover of smoke that it gives off and spots / shoot at people that come over the hill / at the bomb. You're also guarded from the sniper camp along the coast because of the tree. The other guys sit at the rocks and guard the hedges while the person who activates the bomb just tries and delays. It works out really well for us at least (so far the only weakness is if teammates behind us let the enemy come up that road so the guy whos behind the smoke needs to watch 360 degrees instead of just 180) You just contradicted your entire previous statements with this post, what you just described was a strategic attempt at securing objectives, hardly run and gun... You guard areas attempt to take superior cover, and work out delay tactics. This is how BF3 is played, not how CoD players run around like its DM... I'm confused how you can argue for Run and Gun, say your run and gun, then give a post on how you take a tactical approach to securing an object, with the involvement of camping.. | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On October 02 2011 11:05 Phtes wrote: You just contradicted your entire previous statements with this post, what you just described was a strategic attempt at securing objectives, hardly run and gun... You guard area,s attempt ot take superior cover, and work out delay tactics. This is how BF3 is played, not how CoD players run around like its DM... I'm confused how you can argue for RUn and GUn, say your run and gun, then give a post on how you take a tactical approach to securing an object, with the involvement of camping.. Leave him be, he obviously plays based on preference now. | ||
|
semantics
10040 Posts
| ||
| ||
