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On December 28 2012 09:10 poor newb wrote:
i just got this game and at level 10 right now
i can faceroll dungeon mobs with ease 1-2 shot everything, but then when i run into boss mobs i do almost no damage to them and they kill me in 2 hits, what the fuck
Get a follower that wears heavy armor, let them take the hits. It helps on higher difficulties or if you're playing a squishy character. You can also run away, heal, fight, run away, etc.
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What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with.
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I recently picked this game up never having played an ES game, though i did play Fallout: NV for like 30 hours. Started out with a focus on two handed weapons (basically no blocking), heavy armor, smithing etc. I was dying a lot to mob bosses (bandit leaders) at first, and used a lot of potions to compensate (don't like to read guides on games I'm playing, rather learn by myself). I later realized how important it is smith your armor and weapons, it makes a huge difference because while enemies level with you, armor/weapon level is independent.
After getting to level 25 I got bored of just hacking/slashing and now I'm playing a thief character with Dark brotherhood membership, but the game is easy mode which I don't like. I also got Dark Souls recently and will probably play that.
Sorry about the rambling, I have the flu
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im playing melee 1 handed and heavy armor, so i pretty much have to get hit, the difficulty gap between regular mobs and bosses is just silly
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On December 28 2012 09:40 ahole-surprise wrote:
I recently picked this game up never having played an ES game, though i did play Fallout: NV for like 30 hours. Started out with a focus on two handed weapons (basically no blocking), heavy armor, smithing etc. I was dying a lot to mob bosses (bandit leaders) at first, and used a lot of potions to compensate (don't like to read guides on games I'm playing, rather learn by myself). I later realized how important it is smith your armor and weapons, it makes a huge difference because while enemies level with you, armor/weapon level is independent.
After getting to level 25 I got bored of just hacking/slashing and now I'm playing a thief character with Dark brotherhood membership, but the game is easy mode which I don't like. I also got Dark Souls recently and will probably play that.
Sorry about the rambling, I have the flu
yeah, darksouls is what you want to play, this game wasnt meant for powergaming like you did.
@above the 2 handed banits arent that bad, make them miss by going out of range or stagger them with a bash.
its not like this game has crazy action combat :D
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On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with.
that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill.
Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to.
tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml
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I'm almost 100% certain that there's a mod out there that will prevent non-combat skills from leveling your character when they rank up. I don't recall the name, nor do I have a link to it, but if you stumble across it on the Skyrim Nexus, then I bet your enjoyment of the game will be much higher.
Alternatively, you can use the Uncapper mod, and edit the configs so that non-combat skills level up very slowly. It's not quite the same thing, though.
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best solution is just to mod the game into static levels, thats what elderscroll games are there for, make them into the game you want.
Its better this way around since now it is selling endless amounts of copies, which it would not if its default state wouldnt appeal to call of duty gamers.
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On December 28 2012 11:11 CYFAWS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with. that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill. Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to. tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml
Hey, no need to get aggressive. I myself play with requiem, for example, which removes level scaling, too.
I just think that there is not a large overlap in demographic between people who play unmodded skyrim with level scaling and people who roleplay a character without any combat skills.
And if i recall correctly, in unmodded skyrim areas level when you first enter them, so you should still be able to find weak guys somewhere in the areas you first went to. You can always just level smithing, alchemy and enchanting with all that money you earned through thievery and become an immortal killing machine. If you are a thief whose SOP is to run away from trouble, you will of course not be able to fight vampires and dragons.
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On December 28 2012 22:14 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 11:11 CYFAWS wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with. that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill. Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to. tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml If you are a thief whose SOP is to run away from trouble, you will of course not be able to fight vampires and dragons.
Actually thinking about it that is kind of the point of his character... lol. Sort of makes sense that if you make your guy a non-combatant he wouldn't be able to.. well... fight...
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On December 28 2012 11:11 CYFAWS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with. that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill. Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to. tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml
Uh yeah no, sorry.
1 word: Alchemy
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On December 29 2012 07:47 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 22:14 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 11:11 CYFAWS wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with. that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill. Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to. tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml If you are a thief whose SOP is to run away from trouble, you will of course not be able to fight vampires and dragons. Actually thinking about it that is kind of the point of his character... lol. Sort of makes sense that if you make your guy a non-combatant he wouldn't be able to.. well... fight...
Being better at sneaking shouldn't make wolves have bigger teeth, or bandits more likely to shoot you directly in the eye.
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On December 29 2012 12:17 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 07:47 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 22:14 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 11:11 CYFAWS wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with. that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill. Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to. tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml If you are a thief whose SOP is to run away from trouble, you will of course not be able to fight vampires and dragons. Actually thinking about it that is kind of the point of his character... lol. Sort of makes sense that if you make your guy a non-combatant he wouldn't be able to.. well... fight... Being better at sneaking shouldn't make wolves have bigger teeth, or bandits more likely to shoot you directly in the eye.
yeah but it does seem a little weird to expect a herbalist to be able to fight anywhere near as well as a trained assassin or something, whether the mechanics of how that works out are silly or not. Even if the game were fully deleveled if you're just teaching yourself to be good at rolling joints you're gonna be confined to lower level areas unless you want to get murdered by vampires right?
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Any News on Dragonborn? Its now nearly 1 month after XBOX Release, so it should be out in the very near future. :o
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On December 29 2012 12:51 Slackzftw wrote:
Any News on Dragonborn? Its now nearly 1 month after XBOX Release, so it should be out in the very near future. :o
Don't take the 30 day thing as gospel. In the past it hasn't lived up to expectations.
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On December 29 2012 12:56 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 12:51 Slackzftw wrote:
Any News on Dragonborn? Its now nearly 1 month after XBOX Release, so it should be out in the very near future. :o Don't take the 30 day thing as gospel. In the past it hasn't lived up to expectations.
Dawnguard and Heartfire were out exactly in that time on pc.
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On December 29 2012 13:10 Slackzftw wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 12:56 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 29 2012 12:51 Slackzftw wrote:
Any News on Dragonborn? Its now nearly 1 month after XBOX Release, so it should be out in the very near future. :o Don't take the 30 day thing as gospel. In the past it hasn't lived up to expectations. Dawnguard and Heartfire were out exactly in that time on pc.
Maybe they learned from their mistake then. It didn't happen for fallout.
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On December 29 2012 12:22 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 12:17 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On December 29 2012 07:47 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 22:14 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 11:11 CYFAWS wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with. that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill. Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to. tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml If you are a thief whose SOP is to run away from trouble, you will of course not be able to fight vampires and dragons. Actually thinking about it that is kind of the point of his character... lol. Sort of makes sense that if you make your guy a non-combatant he wouldn't be able to.. well... fight... Being better at sneaking shouldn't make wolves have bigger teeth, or bandits more likely to shoot you directly in the eye. yeah but it does seem a little weird to expect a herbalist to be able to fight anywhere near as well as a trained assassin or something, whether the mechanics of how that works out are silly or not. Even if the game were fully deleveled if you're just teaching yourself to be good at rolling joints you're gonna be confined to lower level areas unless you want to get murdered by vampires right?
Right. But suppose we have a situation where we've got a character with 20 in all skills except Sneak, Pickpocket, Lockpicking and Speech. Those four skills are maxed. There are no more lower-level areas to that guy. Every enemy will be significantly harder. Think about how much harder the game will be for that character than it will for a guy with 20 in all skills except Two-Handed and Heavy Armor. That guy, paradoxically, will face weaker enemies as a more effective combatant. A social/stealth character will face harder enemies as a weaker combatant.
The anti-scaling argument boils down to thinking its unfair that, as I get better at talking to people, everyone else in the world gets better at stabbing. Given that, eventually, the game boils down to going into places and killing the inhabitants, scaling punishes anyone who avoids combat by making the difficulty curve so much steeper when you eventually do start pursuing those tasks.
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On December 29 2012 13:13 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 12:22 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 29 2012 12:17 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On December 29 2012 07:47 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 22:14 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 11:11 CYFAWS wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 Simberto wrote:
What kind of character do you play, which bosses are the ones that you have problems with?
Due to the level scaling in Skyrim, you basically never meet something that is completely impossible to deal with. that is extremely not true. due to the level scaling in skyrim, you HAVE to level at least one combat skill and you HAVE to spend perk points in that tree. Want to play a rogue character, just thieving skills and those high speechcraft perks, like you know, an actual thief talking his way out of stuff, bribing guards etc? well you're fucked! you can level to at least 20 easily without EVER whacking an enemy and by that time, you will NEVER find a single enemy that you can kill. Since i do not at all enjoy the standard skyrim players' playstyle (do all quests, max all skills, be level 12354562345 for 90% of playtime), this shit fucks me over so badly. I can never play the way i want, the game forces me into immediate combat specs cuz if you don't do it at the start, you will never be able to. tl;dr: level scaling is still stupid as fuck, lazy worthless bullshit, fml If you are a thief whose SOP is to run away from trouble, you will of course not be able to fight vampires and dragons. Actually thinking about it that is kind of the point of his character... lol. Sort of makes sense that if you make your guy a non-combatant he wouldn't be able to.. well... fight... Being better at sneaking shouldn't make wolves have bigger teeth, or bandits more likely to shoot you directly in the eye. yeah but it does seem a little weird to expect a herbalist to be able to fight anywhere near as well as a trained assassin or something, whether the mechanics of how that works out are silly or not. Even if the game were fully deleveled if you're just teaching yourself to be good at rolling joints you're gonna be confined to lower level areas unless you want to get murdered by vampires right? Right. But suppose we have a situation where we've got a character with 20 in all skills except Sneak, Pickpocket, Lockpicking and Speech. Those four skills are maxed. There are no more lower-level areas to that guy. Every enemy will be significantly harder. Think about how much harder the game will be for that character than it will for a guy with 20 in all skills except Two-Handed and Heavy Armor. That guy, paradoxically, will face weaker enemies as a more effective combatant. A social/stealth character will face harder enemies as a weaker combatant. The anti-scaling argument boils down to thinking its unfair that, as I get better at talking to people, everyone else in the world gets better at stabbing. Given that, eventually, the game boils down to going into places and killing the inhabitants, scaling punishes anyone who avoids combat by making the difficulty curve so much steeper when you eventually do start pursuing those tasks.
Yeah that makes sense. It seems to me the problem there though might have a lot more to do with the game being focused too much around stabbing people (for that kind of player. not for me!) than the actual leveling though. Like, I can see how it exacerbates the issue but it doesn't seem to be the root of it, the root of it is that you have a game where being a diplomat or w/e doesn't really give you a meaningful diplomat experience in much of the game.
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I believe both things. The essential Skyrim (and really every Bethesda game shares this problem, IMO) experience is far too narrow. The problem is exacerbated by scaling. You can't have both an extreme focus on combat and enemies who scale in relation to non-combat skills. I'd be completely ok with scaling in Skyrim if it isolated only your pertinent attributes - enemies' detection ability should change relative to your ability to Sneak, not to your ability to brew potions, and their combat effectiveness should change with your One-Handed, Conjuration, Destruction, Two-Handed, Block, Archery, Light Armor and Heavy Armor skills, not with your Speech and Lockpicking.
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EPT
