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On December 10 2011 12:52 Belha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 05:39 Shauni wrote:On December 10 2011 03:17 Belha wrote:
I would like to know what a old school, rpg experienced player think about skyrim battle system.
I feel it so simple, so "undeep", i think that skyrim with a dragon age or kotor or baldur's gate battle style (not neccesary turn based) would be the perfect game, but imo the battle system is pretty weak. + Show Spoiler +Yeah, battle system is very tedious and unrewarding no matter which style you play. Archery? Abuse AI, Melee? Abuse AI and mash attack button. Spellcaster? Spam destruction spells or watch as your summons kill them...
Spells lack complexity, archery and fighting lack use of real skills. You'd think they could add some more interesting mouse gesture attacks or skill for blocking. Even the bossfights and dragon fights are boring. They usually get stuck somewhere or try to attack something else while you can safely finish them. The AI feels so... dead, I hoped they'd have fixed it since Oblivion but Bethesda are terrible at learning from past mistakes. A quick glance at the main competition Witcher 2 or Dark Souls and the combat feels like a terrible never-ending nightmare in comparison. And I haven't even mentioned the annoying level-up-system or the broken enchanting and smithing, because people talk about it all the time. Same thing with the controls. Who would have thought the most challenging part of the game was selecting the star in the skill-tree you wanted to level up? Hilarious.
And while i commend the amount of dialogue and books in the game, the writing is fucking horrendous. Every character treats you as a 5 year old delivery-boy. Characters personalities are either nonexistent to theatrically overblown archetypes. There is no maturity, no real decision-making beyond some black vs white scenarios which rarely has any significance whatsoever (how can Skyrim even be called a RPG at this point?), everywhere you go, it's the same quests no matter the person, town or land. Even in the more "elaborately" created guildquests, you gotta hunt those fucking artifacts. And when you go hunting artifacts, it's always in some shitty dungeon with hundreds of Draugrs. Yeah, I know, you think I'm being unnecessarily harsh, but all these minor flaws pile up and make me annoyed because I can't grasp the atmosphere or the world. It's a dead and desolate place. Same feeling as with Fallout 3. Same as Oblivion. Betheseda creates all these NPCs who go about on their daily lives in the games, yet it's just a shallow exterior to this empty shell. It irks me how some things are very polished in the game, yet other, more basic elements are fundamentally discarded.
It's ironic how Obsidian managed to succeed in creating a lot more involving, large world in barely a year with New Vegas which is what Betheseda attempted for over a decade... and still can't get right. I'm a bit surprised and alarmed at this recycled concept is getting such good reviews. I thought we had higher standards than this for an ideal game . Exactly this is how i feel. The freedom feel from Skyrim is prolly the best in a rpg, but i find the game is so flawed in so other important aspects. I think this game is no superior to Mass Effect (so much better dialogues, much mature), Dragon Age (combat. so. much. better) and obviously Baldur's Gate 2 (best rpg ever imo, deeper/rewarding combat ever). Still an amazing game, but not even close to 10/10.
if we use a 1-10 model skyrim is a 9.5 at worst. i just does way way too many things right. and a game that easily sucks you in 100+ hours is simply great.
also i disagree about dragon ages combat (1 was ok but left much to wish for, 2 was a joke) and comparison to mass effect in dialogue is just unfair since ME is MUCH MUCH smaller(not sure tho why you see it as more "mature"?).
BG2 is the best overall rpg ever made yeah (in story/writing PS:T atleast comes close ..just combat is much more limited). sadly with todays constant dumbing down of games and the HUGE work it would need to do another game of that quality today i dont think we will see anything even close to it anytime soon,maybe ever. i mean a game of that complexity and difficulty alone would scare the general player today off. add that peole wont accept 2d and demand voice acting (soo much text in those old games...) and you have a hard to do very costly game that will be the holy grail for some but still would be a huge loss of money. its sad but thats the way it is.
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If I enchant a weapon or something, can I reenchant it if I find something better?
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On December 11 2011 04:31 Torte de Lini wrote:
If I enchant a weapon or something, can I reenchant it if I find something better?
Nope.
You'll have to craft another one who is still naked.
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On December 10 2011 19:27 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:58 HaXXspetten wrote:On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me 81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical Why exactly? How many enemies even scale that high? Probably just the bosses (although a good reason to stop it as they can be tough) and maybe elder dragons?
Creatures don't scale at all. Guards level up to 20. Undeads scale up to 50. Highest non named dragons are ancient dragons which are unlocked at 50 but do not scale at all (still pretty strong). Special bandits (like marauders/chiefs) and Forsworn seem to level to 50 too. Gear scales up to Ebony/Glass. Magic seems to be on an entirely different scale but i don't know much about it. That's about everything I have information on at the moment.
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On December 11 2011 05:18 Fiend13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 19:27 HolydaKing wrote:On December 10 2011 15:58 HaXXspetten wrote:On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me 81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical Why exactly? How many enemies even scale that high? Probably just the bosses (although a good reason to stop it as they can be tough) and maybe elder dragons? Creatures don't scale at all. Guards level up to 20. Undeads scale up to 50. Highest non named dragons are ancient dragons which are unlocked at 50 but do not scale at all (still pretty strong). Special bandits (like marauders/chiefs) and Forsworn seem to level to 50 too. Gear scales up to Ebony/Glass. Magic seems to be on an entirely different scale but i don't know much about it. That's about everything I have information on at the moment.
According to the strat guide, this is pretty much right. Many don't scale, but just "are" a certain lvl like mammoths/dragons. Human types scale. Dragons 50. Dragon Priests are 50. Mammoths 38. Daedra Vallkynaz at 46. Dragur Death Overlord 45. Falmer Shadowmaster 44. Forsword Briarheart 51. Thalmor Wizards 50. Valkihar Vampire Master 53. Arch "mages" 46.
Shadowmere is lvl 50 with 887hp and 198sta lol.
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I did not realize finishing the imperial quest line would completely destroy Windhelm forever T_T. I hadn't even started that city, now I will never be able to finish everything. Wanted to do every quest in every city. Thane in 5 cities right now and mostly done with all their quests too. Bah.
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On December 11 2011 06:03 Kurr wrote:
I did not realize finishing the imperial quest line would completely destroy Windhelm forever T_T. I hadn't even started that city, now I will never be able to finish everything. Wanted to do every quest in every city. Thane in 5 cities right now and mostly done with all their quests too. Bah.
What are you referring to? In my latest playthrough i did that quest relatively early and still could do every single quest in Windhelm afterwards.
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Well, I didn't check if the quests were still there but Windhelm is not on my map anymore and when I left there the city was on fire. I guess if I wait long enough it will get back to normal?
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Yeah the game treats it as a new location for that specific quest, it will be back to normal again if you go back.
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Awesome, I was considering quitting that character because of that ahah. Good news then :D
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About the levelling, what's with the difference with difficulties then? It seems that every draugr is a wight / scourge on master, and usually restless on adept.
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On December 11 2011 07:13 Tomazi wrote:
About the levelling, what's with the difference with difficulties then? It seems that every draugr is a wight / scourge on master, and usually restless on adept.
uhhh nothing like that afaik... difference is just how much damage you do (and how much the monsters do? not sure about that one). the types of monsters are independent of the difficulty.
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On December 11 2011 07:13 Tomazi wrote:
About the levelling, what's with the difference with difficulties then? It seems that every draugr is a wight / scourge on master, and usually restless on adept.
Pretty sure the draugr scale with your level. After I hit level 50, probably 75% of the draugr I see in dungeons are the highest tier (death lord or w/e).
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So are the crashed when installing very high res texture mods because of a lack of memory and the 2gig limit? I get missing/purple textures here and there which I attribute to conflicts with some mods but the CTDs on fast travel are horrendous.
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On December 11 2011 07:13 Tomazi wrote:
About the levelling, what's with the difference with difficulties then? It seems that every draugr is a wight / scourge on master, and usually restless on adept.
difficulty levels affects monster HP and damage they deal.
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On December 11 2011 03:08 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 12:52 Belha wrote:On December 10 2011 05:39 Shauni wrote:On December 10 2011 03:17 Belha wrote:
I would like to know what a old school, rpg experienced player think about skyrim battle system.
I feel it so simple, so "undeep", i think that skyrim with a dragon age or kotor or baldur's gate battle style (not neccesary turn based) would be the perfect game, but imo the battle system is pretty weak. + Show Spoiler +Yeah, battle system is very tedious and unrewarding no matter which style you play. Archery? Abuse AI, Melee? Abuse AI and mash attack button. Spellcaster? Spam destruction spells or watch as your summons kill them...
Spells lack complexity, archery and fighting lack use of real skills. You'd think they could add some more interesting mouse gesture attacks or skill for blocking. Even the bossfights and dragon fights are boring. They usually get stuck somewhere or try to attack something else while you can safely finish them. The AI feels so... dead, I hoped they'd have fixed it since Oblivion but Bethesda are terrible at learning from past mistakes. A quick glance at the main competition Witcher 2 or Dark Souls and the combat feels like a terrible never-ending nightmare in comparison. And I haven't even mentioned the annoying level-up-system or the broken enchanting and smithing, because people talk about it all the time. Same thing with the controls. Who would have thought the most challenging part of the game was selecting the star in the skill-tree you wanted to level up? Hilarious.
And while i commend the amount of dialogue and books in the game, the writing is fucking horrendous. Every character treats you as a 5 year old delivery-boy. Characters personalities are either nonexistent to theatrically overblown archetypes. There is no maturity, no real decision-making beyond some black vs white scenarios which rarely has any significance whatsoever (how can Skyrim even be called a RPG at this point?), everywhere you go, it's the same quests no matter the person, town or land. Even in the more "elaborately" created guildquests, you gotta hunt those fucking artifacts. And when you go hunting artifacts, it's always in some shitty dungeon with hundreds of Draugrs. Yeah, I know, you think I'm being unnecessarily harsh, but all these minor flaws pile up and make me annoyed because I can't grasp the atmosphere or the world. It's a dead and desolate place. Same feeling as with Fallout 3. Same as Oblivion. Betheseda creates all these NPCs who go about on their daily lives in the games, yet it's just a shallow exterior to this empty shell. It irks me how some things are very polished in the game, yet other, more basic elements are fundamentally discarded.
It's ironic how Obsidian managed to succeed in creating a lot more involving, large world in barely a year with New Vegas which is what Betheseda attempted for over a decade... and still can't get right. I'm a bit surprised and alarmed at this recycled concept is getting such good reviews. I thought we had higher standards than this for an ideal game . Exactly this is how i feel. The freedom feel from Skyrim is prolly the best in a rpg, but i find the game is so flawed in so other important aspects. I think this game is no superior to Mass Effect (so much better dialogues, much mature), Dragon Age (combat. so. much. better) and obviously Baldur's Gate 2 (best rpg ever imo, deeper/rewarding combat ever). Still an amazing game, but not even close to 10/10. if we use a 1-10 model skyrim is a 9.5 at worst. i just does way way too many things right. and a game that easily sucks you in 100+ hours is simply great. also i disagree about dragon ages combat (1 was ok but left much to wish for, 2 was a joke) and comparison to mass effect in dialogue is just unfair since ME is MUCH MUCH smaller(not sure tho why you see it as more "mature"?). BG2 is the best overall rpg ever made yeah (in story/writing PS:T atleast comes close ..just combat is much more limited). sadly with todays constant dumbing down of games and the HUGE work it would need to do another game of that quality today i dont think we will see anything even close to it anytime soon,maybe ever. i mean a game of that complexity and difficulty alone would scare the general player today off. add that peole wont accept 2d and demand voice acting (soo much text in those old games...) and you have a hard to do very costly game that will be the holy grail for some but still would be a huge loss of money. its sad but thats the way it is.
This is kinda my opinion too. As much as is wrong with this game, it sucked me in like a black hole. I guess you either have the psychology to enjoy a sandboxy RPG and overlook its worst flaws or you tend to pick up on the flaws and let it wreck the game for you.
I was a sucker for these games back during Fallout 1/2 and Arcanum. If they redid the last 3 Elder Scrolls games as 2.5D isometric I'd still play the fuck out of them.
Like, a lot of the arguments people are laying on this game would've worked well describing Two Worlds, but Skyrim is a completely different animal. And even Two Worlds had its own addictive qualities.
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On December 11 2011 07:25 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:13 Tomazi wrote:
About the levelling, what's with the difference with difficulties then? It seems that every draugr is a wight / scourge on master, and usually restless on adept. uhhh nothing like that afaik... difference is just how much damage you do (and how much the monsters do? not sure about that one). the types of monsters are independent of the difficulty.
I have a level 45 save, and most barrows were trash mobs with the occasional scourge and deathlord at the end. On my current save, all through 20-35 I have seen no common draugr, indeed very few restless. Might be just hitting the wrong dungeons I guess.
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On December 11 2011 05:18 Fiend13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 19:27 HolydaKing wrote:On December 10 2011 15:58 HaXXspetten wrote:On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me 81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical Why exactly? How many enemies even scale that high? Probably just the bosses (although a good reason to stop it as they can be tough) and maybe elder dragons? Creatures don't scale at all. Guards level up to 20. Undeads scale up to 50. Highest non named dragons are ancient dragons which are unlocked at 50 but do not scale at all (still pretty strong). Special bandits (like marauders/chiefs) and Forsworn seem to level to 50 too. Gear scales up to Ebony/Glass. Magic seems to be on an entirely different scale but i don't know much about it. That's about everything I have information on at the moment.
I've gotten one pair of dragon scale gauntlets in a chest. So they might be super rare
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Has anyone here ever played either of the icewind dale's im thinking of getting them and was wondering if they were as good as baldurs gate ?
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EPT
