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On December 10 2011 10:37 Demonhunter04 wrote:
How do you guys feel about Dark Messiah's combat system? I haven't played many RPGs, but their system was pretty awesome imo.
EDIT: SafeasCheese, get the Atronach stone, alteration absorb perk, Spellbreaker, wards, or the magic resist perk under block.
Dark Messiah's combat was pretty bad, imo. Mash left click while using strafe to kite enemies. Occasionally kick an enemy onto a spike if your index finger is getting tired.
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On December 10 2011 10:46 GoonFFS wrote:
i fully enjoy the combat system in skyrim. it's not perfect but what the hell can we expect
i'm fully satisfied with the 100 hours ive put into it thus far and i still haven't even seen half the game
instead of coming here to complain, why dont you go play another 30-40 hours then maybe youll know
good for your. Don't let our criticism of the same game stop you from enjoying it. But that doesn't change much for those of us who WANT to play a game with a good combat system does it? As i said, there is a lot of stuff in Skyrim I enjoy, but combat isn't one of it, it's either too easy because i use a "overpowered" skill (e.g. stealth with the DB gloves) or it's mindnumbingly boring when i don't use that stuff (hitting a dragon with 90 arrows to kill it because it doesn't have targetzones e.g.).
Note for your ad hominem stuff i've played through ALL factions (including a 2nd char so i could do the Imperials) and definitly spent more than 100 hours on my two characters (according to steam 200, but that probably includes some idle time while i wasn't at my PC). Sometimes when people criticise something they actually have a well founded opinion, surprisingly.
Also note i have played every TES game since Daggerfall and probably almost every RPG since Baldur's Gate, so i know what an RPG is. A good combat mechanic (either stats based or movement based nowadays) is one of the key aspects most players enjoy in them.
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Forget about the combat system. This game is a glitch-nest with glitch eggs that could at any moment spawn into a glitch chicken that crashes the game or eats a bunch of textures leaving behind nothing but a bright yellow or purple shell of what used to be a beautiful item. And the AI sucks too. Unfortunate. In many other aspects its a great game.
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On December 10 2011 11:12 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 10:46 GoonFFS wrote:
i fully enjoy the combat system in skyrim. it's not perfect but what the hell can we expect
i'm fully satisfied with the 100 hours ive put into it thus far and i still haven't even seen half the game
instead of coming here to complain, why dont you go play another 30-40 hours then maybe youll know good for your. Don't let our criticism of the same game stop you from enjoying it. But that doesn't change much for those of us who WANT to play a game with a good combat system does it? As i said, there is a lot of stuff in Skyrim I enjoy, but combat isn't one of it, it's either too easy because i use a "overpowered" skill (e.g. stealth with the DB gloves) or it's mindnumbingly boring when i don't use that stuff (hitting a dragon with 90 arrows to kill it because it doesn't have targetzones e.g.). Note for your ad hominem stuff i've played through ALL factions (including a 2nd char so i could do the Imperials) and definitly spent more than 100 hours on my two characters (according to steam 200, but that probably includes some idle time while i wasn't at my PC). Sometimes when people criticise something they actually have a well founded opinion, surprisingly. Also note i have played every TES game since Daggerfall and probably almost every RPG since Baldur's Gate, so i know what an RPG is. A good combat mechanic (either stats based or movement based nowadays) is one of the key aspects most players enjoy in them.
IMO the problem with combat isn't the combat itself, but the way the game is played. The 3rd/1st person perspective forces the kind of combat you see in Skyrim, and pretty much every RPG which uses this perspective is subject to the same combat flaws Skyrim has. Math based combat just doesn't work well in this kind of circumstance. The only way to make it more fluid and interesting would be to make it a pseudo FPS / RPG mix, which is one of the aspects I absolutely hated about Fallout 3. Actually, these issues in FO3 just lasted a while, until maths destroyed combat and it became so ridiculously easy it was even less enjoyable.
In contrast, isometric view allows for incredible combat, such as that seen in classic Bioware DnD RPGs. The tactical element in this type of games makes combat inherently more complex and fulfilling than the Skyrim approach, and the whole "math" element just blends perfectly to it. Epic battles in BG happened ALL the time, it was so nice.
Imagine swinging a sword in first person and "missing" how awful would that be from an immersion standpoint. It just doesn't work.
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On December 10 2011 11:29 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 11:12 Tula wrote:On December 10 2011 10:46 GoonFFS wrote:
i fully enjoy the combat system in skyrim. it's not perfect but what the hell can we expect
i'm fully satisfied with the 100 hours ive put into it thus far and i still haven't even seen half the game
instead of coming here to complain, why dont you go play another 30-40 hours then maybe youll know good for your. Don't let our criticism of the same game stop you from enjoying it. But that doesn't change much for those of us who WANT to play a game with a good combat system does it? As i said, there is a lot of stuff in Skyrim I enjoy, but combat isn't one of it, it's either too easy because i use a "overpowered" skill (e.g. stealth with the DB gloves) or it's mindnumbingly boring when i don't use that stuff (hitting a dragon with 90 arrows to kill it because it doesn't have targetzones e.g.). Note for your ad hominem stuff i've played through ALL factions (including a 2nd char so i could do the Imperials) and definitly spent more than 100 hours on my two characters (according to steam 200, but that probably includes some idle time while i wasn't at my PC). Sometimes when people criticise something they actually have a well founded opinion, surprisingly. Also note i have played every TES game since Daggerfall and probably almost every RPG since Baldur's Gate, so i know what an RPG is. A good combat mechanic (either stats based or movement based nowadays) is one of the key aspects most players enjoy in them. IMO the problem with combat isn't the combat itself, but the way the game is played. The 3rd/1st person perspective forces the kind of combat you see in Skyrim, and pretty much every RPG which uses this perspective is subject to the same combat flaws Skyrim has. Math based combat just doesn't work well in this kind of circumstance. The only way to make it more fluid and interesting would be to make it a pseudo FPS / RPG mix, which is one of the aspects I absolutely hated about Fallout 3. Actually, these issues in FO3 just lasted a while, until maths destroyed combat and it became so ridiculously easy it was even less enjoyable. In contrast, isometric view allows for incredible combat, such as that seen in classic Bioware DnD RPGs. The tactical element in this type of games makes combat inherently more complex and fulfilling than the Skyrim approach, and the whole "math" element just blends perfectly to it. Epic battles in BG happened ALL the time, it was so nice. Imagine swinging a sword in first person and "missing" how awful would that be from an immersion standpoint. It just doesn't work.
I agree, but there is SOME stuff you can do to make first person combat feel better. Targetzones on big enemies (are you hitting that dragon in the head e.g.) specific moves you need to skill before you can use them, block counter moves assassin's creed style, the list goes on and on. The power attacks were a move in the right direction, but they feel very clumsy in this game.
The only aspect of combat which feels right is playing an Archer, and then you feel as if you play a shooter with some RPG added into it (which Mass Effect did much better), coupled with completly stupid enemy pathing you feel like a god within seconds (unless your fighting mages then you feel dead within seconds because for some reason their spells scale...).
I knew what i was buying and that i couldn't expect BG2 or DA:O style combat, but i expected SOME thought in the combat system. The potential in the shouts alone would be enough for most games, but they half assed those as well with their lack of scaling...
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RPGs can do combat right without relying on dice rolls for missing, but you can't half-ass the physicality. See: Demon's/Dark Souls.
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well, this is an elderscrolls game, what you seek is devil may cry.
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Bought this game yesterday, haven't had a chance to play it yet but pretty excited (my gf has it too so even better!)
I'm new to the Elder Scrolls series, can anybody recommend a good build/race/abilities I should focus on for something like a Gandalf-type character (as in wields a one handed weapon + offensive magic), I think they are called battle mages? This kinda character looks appealing to me so might have a crack at it.
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really like this game but it just crashes so damn much. I have 50 hours logged and i've already crashed at least 40 times. Some of 'em are just the game auto-exiting, but some completely shut down my comp. It's pretty annoying, especially considering my computer is pretty good too -.-;
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On December 10 2011 05:39 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:17 Belha wrote:
I would like to know what a old school, rpg experienced player think about skyrim battle system.
I feel it so simple, so "undeep", i think that skyrim with a dragon age or kotor or baldur's gate battle style (not neccesary turn based) would be the perfect game, but imo the battle system is pretty weak. + Show Spoiler +Yeah, battle system is very tedious and unrewarding no matter which style you play. Archery? Abuse AI, Melee? Abuse AI and mash attack button. Spellcaster? Spam destruction spells or watch as your summons kill them...
Spells lack complexity, archery and fighting lack use of real skills. You'd think they could add some more interesting mouse gesture attacks or skill for blocking. Even the bossfights and dragon fights are boring. They usually get stuck somewhere or try to attack something else while you can safely finish them. The AI feels so... dead, I hoped they'd have fixed it since Oblivion but Bethesda are terrible at learning from past mistakes. A quick glance at the main competition Witcher 2 or Dark Souls and the combat feels like a terrible never-ending nightmare in comparison. And I haven't even mentioned the annoying level-up-system or the broken enchanting and smithing, because people talk about it all the time. Same thing with the controls. Who would have thought the most challenging part of the game was selecting the star in the skill-tree you wanted to level up? Hilarious.
And while i commend the amount of dialogue and books in the game, the writing is fucking horrendous. Every character treats you as a 5 year old delivery-boy. Characters personalities are either nonexistent to theatrically overblown archetypes. There is no maturity, no real decision-making beyond some black vs white scenarios which rarely has any significance whatsoever (how can Skyrim even be called a RPG at this point?), everywhere you go, it's the same quests no matter the person, town or land. Even in the more "elaborately" created guildquests, you gotta hunt those fucking artifacts. And when you go hunting artifacts, it's always in some shitty dungeon with hundreds of Draugrs. Yeah, I know, you think I'm being unnecessarily harsh, but all these minor flaws pile up and make me annoyed because I can't grasp the atmosphere or the world. It's a dead and desolate place. Same feeling as with Fallout 3. Same as Oblivion. Betheseda creates all these NPCs who go about on their daily lives in the games, yet it's just a shallow exterior to this empty shell. It irks me how some things are very polished in the game, yet other, more basic elements are fundamentally discarded.
It's ironic how Obsidian managed to succeed in creating a lot more involving, large world in barely a year with New Vegas which is what Betheseda attempted for over a decade... and still can't get right. I'm a bit surprised and alarmed at this recycled concept is getting such good reviews. I thought we had higher standards than this for an ideal game .
Exactly this is how i feel. The freedom feel from Skyrim is prolly the best in a rpg, but i find the game is so flawed in so other important aspects. I think this game is no superior to Mass Effect (so much better dialogues, much mature), Dragon Age (combat. so. much. better) and obviously Baldur's Gate 2 (best rpg ever imo, deeper/rewarding combat ever). Still an amazing game, but not even close to 10/10.
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On December 10 2011 12:46 Ryuu314 wrote:
really like this game but it just crashes so damn much. I have 50 hours logged and i've already crashed at least 40 times. Some of 'em are just the game auto-exiting, but some completely shut down my comp. It's pretty annoying, especially considering my computer is pretty good too -.-;
I read high shadows details cause a lot of crashes. I never have a single crash with low shadows, but a few with 2 days with high shadows.
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On December 10 2011 11:09 gurrpp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 10:37 Demonhunter04 wrote:
How do you guys feel about Dark Messiah's combat system? I haven't played many RPGs, but their system was pretty awesome imo.
EDIT: SafeasCheese, get the Atronach stone, alteration absorb perk, Spellbreaker, wards, or the magic resist perk under block. Dark Messiah's combat was pretty bad, imo. Mash left click while using strafe to kite enemies. Occasionally kick an enemy onto a spike if your index finger is getting tired.
What difficulty did you play on? Mashing left click only worked when fighting a single opponent who wasn't tough enough to shrug off your blows.
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Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me
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Its a immense game but I am a little bit frustrated with my ps3 version.
People have been complaining about lag after so many hours of playtime however I get lag from the moment I start the game. The very first quest I experienced constant fps drops and in some places strong stuttering.
I don't really understand why this is the case if anyone has any suggestions as how to alleviate this I am all ears as it is taking away from my enjoyment of the game 
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The weirdest thing just happened. I completed the thalmor embassy quest a while ago and just now I was coming out of a dungeon and I got an invitation to elenwen's reception by courier! The date is the 15th of another month, I am so confused.
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On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me
81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical
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On December 10 2011 15:58 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me 81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical
Why exactly? How many enemies even scale that high? Probably just the bosses (although a good reason to stop it as they can be tough) and maybe elder dragons?
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On December 10 2011 19:27 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:58 HaXXspetten wrote:On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me 81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical Why exactly? How many enemies even scale that high? Probably just the bosses (although a good reason to stop it as they can be tough) and maybe elder dragons?
He means it's stupid to level skills you don't need at all. Like a pure mage leveling block, 2hander. There's no other way to get to max level then to level every skill to 100.
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On December 10 2011 19:36 Talho wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 19:27 HolydaKing wrote:On December 10 2011 15:58 HaXXspetten wrote:On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me 81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical Why exactly? How many enemies even scale that high? Probably just the bosses (although a good reason to stop it as they can be tough) and maybe elder dragons? He means it's stupid to level skills you don't need at all. Like a pure mage leveling block, 2hander. There's no other way to get to max level then to level every skill to 100.
What I like to do, until around 40-50 I level up my main perks then I go into a secondary hybrid character from there.
My 2h warrior now also summons atronarchs and uses alteration for magic resistance/candle light (best skill in the game btw).
My mage started using swords for fun.
I'm getting closer to full completion on my warrior. I think my next (last?) character will be using that mod I linked earlier and will be light armor/sword and shield with a large emphasis on bash/sneak/illusion.
Basically, as little direct sword fighting as possible. Just going around invisible, confusing enemies and sneak bashing them.
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On December 10 2011 19:27 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 15:58 HaXXspetten wrote:On December 10 2011 14:03 Tezzick wrote:
Okay I was led to believe that you stopped getting perks at level 50.
So here I am squeezing out every perk point into the perfect spot, then I level up and cry.
All that time and effort for nothing.
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.
Skyrim, y u do dis 2 me 81 is the max level, but anything much higher than about 60 is pretty impractical Why exactly? How many enemies even scale that high? Probably just the bosses (although a good reason to stop it as they can be tough) and maybe elder dragons?
Well, right now at level 52, with one-handed, sneak, destruction, heavy armor and smithing at 100, most dungeon enemies are now past my level and its challenging again. Mainly high level necromancers/pyromancers/etc kill me in a few hits now. And I still have to kite ancient dragons like crazy or they'll pick me up and toss me.
After I get enchanting to a high level, I'm going to remake all my current equipment, as to have my "end-game" kit. Then I'm going to be making a conjuration archer with light armor, using atronachs and zombies as my meat shields.
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EPT
