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Elder Scrolls V - Skyrim - Page 398

Forum Index > General Games
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HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
November 26 2011 17:32 GMT
#7941
On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
there are two ways to play skyrim

1) use the bad balance and oneshot everything on the highest difficulty

2) get your ass handed by trash mobs on mid difficulty

both ways are no fun at all it feels like they sold an editor to the modding community and thats it. They rather should have used a smaller map less quests but balance the goddamn game or at least test it once to weed out the super stupid stuff before they release it.They put trainers that level you for gold all over the map but LEVELING IS A BAD THING especially as mage, all level ups do is increase your enemy hp/dmg but you get a lot less additional damage/hp and none extra damage as mage. Or you just rush for the imbalanced armors because forging is basically free, the fastest way to win the game is probably chop wood sell it and buy leather/iron make daggers enchant them sell it for 17557457k and have the daedran armor in like 2 hours take a random bow and oneshot everything.

Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.

i tested the game as mage/archer/ 1h melee (each one played over 15h archer about 40h),
I knew that they will probably release the game as a better beta version especially because they have to ship before d3 or they wont sell a single copy but i am disappointed by this piece of garbage they delivered.

but yeah has cool gfx

1) People trying to be best... at a single player game where you can abuse shit to become imba, + has a console to allow you to do anything

2) People trying to enjoy the game
AutomatonOmega
Profile Joined February 2011
United States706 Posts
November 26 2011 17:34 GMT
#7942
On November 26 2011 17:07 Caryc wrote:
dont go dremora lords :S my conjuration one handed (bound swords) melee char is now only watching them play skyrim

Learn the spell, but choose not to use it until you run into a 'fuck this' moment like the boss from the Peryite quest.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
November 26 2011 17:34 GMT
#7943
Yes, there are two entirely negative ways to look at Elder Scroll games. However those are not the only two ways to play it. Honestly it's like you've been given pandoras box, TOLD what was inside then proceeded to open it and bitch about the repercussions.

It's not that you are unwelcome to have an opinion here. Go right ahead. But my magery is supplemented with a full outfit, picked throughout the 70 hours I've played.

When I do a new quest line; I use the crappy beginner thieves/brotherhood/et cetera clothes. I try to fit into the game and it rewards me with immense enjoyment and immersion at new challenges.


When I was a kid I had few thousand lego pieces from dozens of sets I had purchased but never assembled. I had a bucket, shovel and a sand pit in the back yard. Some people enjoy being told what to do and how to play. There is no wrong in it, just as there is no wrong for others to enjoy fitting together a box of legos into their own house and losing the step by step directions without a care.

Sorry this game wasn't your cup of tea.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 17:36:39
November 26 2011 17:34 GMT
#7944
On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.
not true

mages get poisons of weakness to magic/element and fortify destruction

mages get less dps increases than one-handers do but melee combat is dangerous and if you go the enchanting route instead, mages can eventually get 0 mp cost spells

there are some things that i can see why people would cry about (like the main quest not being fulfilling enough) but complaining about gameplay balance in a singleplayer rpg seems ridiculous, not everything is starcraft bro
aaaaa
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
November 26 2011 17:46 GMT
#7945
On November 27 2011 02:32 HaXXspetten wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
there are two ways to play skyrim

1) use the bad balance and oneshot everything on the highest difficulty

2) get your ass handed by trash mobs on mid difficulty

both ways are no fun at all it feels like they sold an editor to the modding community and thats it. They rather should have used a smaller map less quests but balance the goddamn game or at least test it once to weed out the super stupid stuff before they release it.They put trainers that level you for gold all over the map but LEVELING IS A BAD THING especially as mage, all level ups do is increase your enemy hp/dmg but you get a lot less additional damage/hp and none extra damage as mage. Or you just rush for the imbalanced armors because forging is basically free, the fastest way to win the game is probably chop wood sell it and buy leather/iron make daggers enchant them sell it for 17557457k and have the daedran armor in like 2 hours take a random bow and oneshot everything.

Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.

i tested the game as mage/archer/ 1h melee (each one played over 15h archer about 40h),
I knew that they will probably release the game as a better beta version especially because they have to ship before d3 or they wont sell a single copy but i am disappointed by this piece of garbage they delivered.

but yeah has cool gfx

1) People trying to be best... at a single player game where you can abuse shit to become imba, + has a console to allow you to do anything

2) People trying to enjoy the game


Why is there such a negative connotation associated with using the best equipment? Enjoy the game your way, and let others enjoy it the way they want.
Chibithor
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil514 Posts
November 26 2011 17:48 GMT
#7946
On November 27 2011 02:34 Zanno wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.
not true

mages get poisons of weakness to magic/element and fortify destruction

mages get less dps increases than one-handers do but melee combat is dangerous and if you go the enchanting route instead, mages can eventually get 0 mp cost spells

there are some things that i can see why people would cry about (like the main quest not being fulfilling enough) but complaining about gameplay balance in a singleplayer rpg seems ridiculous, not everything is starcraft bro

I think gameplay balance is something that should always be taken into account, multiplayer or not. There's no reason to have such a contrast between warrior and mage, where as a one-handed+shield warrior I can faceroll everything I see, and as a mage any fight that's even slightly more difficult kicks my ass.

I still like the game, mind you. Kicking ass and getting my ass kicked both have their appeal, in a way, and lower difficulty with mage and higher with warrior works somewhat. Maybe I'm just playing a mage badly, that's entirely possible. But warriors are still OP.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 26 2011 17:51 GMT
#7947
On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
there are two ways to play skyrim

1) use the bad balance and oneshot everything on the highest difficulty

2) get your ass handed by trash mobs on mid difficulty

both ways are no fun at all it feels like they sold an editor to the modding community and thats it. They rather should have used a smaller map less quests but balance the goddamn game or at least test it once to weed out the super stupid stuff before they release it.They put trainers that level you for gold all over the map but LEVELING IS A BAD THING especially as mage, all level ups do is increase your enemy hp/dmg but you get a lot less additional damage/hp and none extra damage as mage. Or you just rush for the imbalanced armors because forging is basically free, the fastest way to win the game is probably chop wood sell it and buy leather/iron make daggers enchant them sell it for 17557457k and have the daedran armor in like 2 hours take a random bow and oneshot everything.

Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.

i tested the game as mage/archer/ 1h melee (each one played over 15h archer about 40h),
I knew that they will probably release the game as a better beta version especially because they have to ship before d3 or they wont sell a single copy but i am disappointed by this piece of garbage they delivered.

but yeah has cool gfx

It's a TES game. Nothing about it is really beyond what you'd expect from one.

If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine. But seriously, none of this should be surprising or unexpected.
Moderator
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 18:00:06
November 26 2011 17:52 GMT
#7948
On November 27 2011 02:48 Chibithor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 02:34 Zanno wrote:
On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.
not true

mages get poisons of weakness to magic/element and fortify destruction

mages get less dps increases than one-handers do but melee combat is dangerous and if you go the enchanting route instead, mages can eventually get 0 mp cost spells

there are some things that i can see why people would cry about (like the main quest not being fulfilling enough) but complaining about gameplay balance in a singleplayer rpg seems ridiculous, not everything is starcraft bro

I think gameplay balance is something that should always be taken into account, multiplayer or not. There's no reason to have such a contrast between warrior and mage, where as a one-handed+shield warrior I can faceroll everything I see, and as a mage any fight that's even slightly more difficult kicks my ass.

I still like the game, mind you. Kicking ass and getting my ass kicked both have their appeal, in a way, and lower difficulty with mage and higher with warrior works somewhat. Maybe I'm just playing a mage badly, that's entirely possible. But warriors are still OP.

the balance is still a lot better than oblivion, where mages have infinite mp and one shot everything in the room while a warrior's melee attacks without poisons do literally nothing to high level daedra >_>

at the very least, in skyrim getting infinite mp (through 0 mp cost spells) ties up your enchants, while in oblivion the spells themselves provided the mp for your next spell

so even if the balance still isn't that great, it's still a looooooot better
aaaaa
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
November 26 2011 17:58 GMT
#7949
in oblivion getting infinite mp (through 0 mp cost spells) ties up your enchants, while in oblivion the spells

You meant skyrim right?
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
November 26 2011 17:59 GMT
#7950
Yea, poisons for mage damage scaling, so you need to grab some form of weapons, swing at the mob and deliver a poison before you can nuke it properly with your spells

how about melee characters all have to learn conjuration to summon their weapons before they can go melee :x

destruction scaling is non existant, actually all magic scaling is non existant. Illusion beats ass as you turn one overpowered mob to beat another and conjuration doesn't have time to get outdated as dremora lord's stats are so high, but destruction falls far from being as effective as you'd expect an archmage 100 skill toss out. Simply a perk / spell issue, they need to scale. Or needs to have gear that enhances the damage.

Everyone who finds a few mana potions have effectively 0 mp cost spells anyway as you can gulp instant effect potions while the game is paused. So instead of enchanting, you could get "0" mana costs from alchemy.
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 18:01:32
November 26 2011 17:59 GMT
#7951
On November 27 2011 02:58 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
in oblivion getting infinite mp (through 0 mp cost spells) ties up your enchants, while in oblivion the spells

You meant skyrim right?
aghhgjklfgh
On November 27 2011 02:59 daemir wrote:
So instead of enchanting, you could get "0" mana costs from alchemy.

that's true, but potions are heavy in this game and are a finite resource during a dungeon crawl
aaaaa
Skilledblob
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3392 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 18:03:56
November 26 2011 18:03 GMT
#7952
On November 27 2011 02:59 daemir wrote:
Yea, poisons for mage damage scaling, so you need to grab some form of weapons, swing at the mob and deliver a poison before you can nuke it properly with your spells

how about melee characters all have to learn conjuration to summon their weapons before they can go melee :x

destruction scaling is non existant, actually all magic scaling is non existant. Illusion beats ass as you turn one overpowered mob to beat another and conjuration doesn't have time to get outdated as dremora lord's stats are so high, but destruction falls far from being as effective as you'd expect an archmage 100 skill toss out. Simply a perk / spell issue, they need to scale. Or needs to have gear that enhances the damage.

Everyone who finds a few mana potions have effectively 0 mp cost spells anyway as you can gulp instant effect potions while the game is paused. So instead of enchanting, you could get "0" mana costs from alchemy.


I dont see the problem. You whine about destruction not being enough alone but did you even think about that it might not be intended that you run around and just one shot everything with big ass fireballs?

You are a frickin mage so make use of the tools you are supplied with and this does include summons and illusion spells.

Weapon based characters dont have such a wide number of tactics they can rely on that's the reason why the weapons have to scale a bit.
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
November 26 2011 18:04 GMT
#7953
On November 27 2011 02:32 HaXXspetten wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
there are two ways to play skyrim

1) use the bad balance and oneshot everything on the highest difficulty

2) get your ass handed by trash mobs on mid difficulty

both ways are no fun at all it feels like they sold an editor to the modding community and thats it. They rather should have used a smaller map less quests but balance the goddamn game or at least test it once to weed out the super stupid stuff before they release it.They put trainers that level you for gold all over the map but LEVELING IS A BAD THING especially as mage, all level ups do is increase your enemy hp/dmg but you get a lot less additional damage/hp and none extra damage as mage. Or you just rush for the imbalanced armors because forging is basically free, the fastest way to win the game is probably chop wood sell it and buy leather/iron make daggers enchant them sell it for 17557457k and have the daedran armor in like 2 hours take a random bow and oneshot everything.

Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.

i tested the game as mage/archer/ 1h melee (each one played over 15h archer about 40h),
I knew that they will probably release the game as a better beta version especially because they have to ship before d3 or they wont sell a single copy but i am disappointed by this piece of garbage they delivered.

but yeah has cool gfx

1) People trying to be best... at a single player game where you can abuse shit to become imba, + has a console to allow you to do anything

2) People trying to enjoy the game

Yeah, definitely wasn't getting destroyed by trash mobs on mid difficulty...I'm not a good player by any means and not trying to break the game using enchanting/smithing/alchemy so I've been having a fun time with it.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
November 26 2011 18:06 GMT
#7954
Actually I have quite a lot of success with being a Fire Mage. I just throw a flame cloak on which melts the shit out of things as I run; Throw fire balls for AOE into groups and if I'm looking at a Death Lord I walk in with my flame cloak up and Incinerate, chug potions, incinerate and regain the distance. You can go pure destruction easily I would assume (although imba imba alchy imba- raise destruction effectiveness 300% good night.)
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
November 26 2011 18:08 GMT
#7955
Yeah you can definitely go pure destruction, I was doing so for around 10-15 hours until I finally bought some Conjuration spells.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
November 26 2011 18:08 GMT
#7956
On November 26 2011 20:20 Probe1 wrote:
Well I think it's fair to say we both have heavily tinted nostalgia goggles. You could argue about Morrowind having immense depth and more intriguing quests or Fallout 2 being the end all to all that will be or Final Fantasy ## is better than ##

But

What's important to me is whether I enjoy the games. Yeah, I liked Fo3. A lot. It felt good to go back to that story- even if it was told much differently with less violence and way more flippant humor. It was a different kind of nice and I enjoyed it all the same, even if I understand the lore followed in Blizzards footsteps and just threw everything out the window for a punchline. That'd my personal opinion and other has to agree.

Skyrim, however (on topic), doesn't strike me as that empty of a world and the Dark Brotherhood quest line and the Thieves Guild quest line are very character driven and at times engaging. Sure, it's not how I have memorialized the unquestionably brilliant plots of games I grew up with but it's not bad at all.



curreh: You validated my obsession with gold and made me another 50k before I felt sloth replace greed. :D

Show nested quote +
On November 26 2011 20:15 Lobo2me wrote:
On November 26 2011 20:03 Probe1 wrote:
I don't rightly know and I'm poor at testing things out. I'd imagine I'd need to try to sell the same potion to a dozen or so different NPCs, Some will buy items for close to the exact price and some will stiff you for half the max price even with 5/5 speechcraft.

I just used a barter potion and it did not change the price, if that's an indication. I don't know if there is a fortify speechcraft but if there is I don't have it :S

You can get a item from the Thieves Guild which increases barter prices, but I couldn't disenchant it, and I haven't been able to DE Speechcraft either, even with several barter items in inventory.

Fair point I could use that. I'll reload skyrim and check.
Edit:
1 Amulet of Articulation- no change
2 Amulet of Zenithar- no change
3 Potion of Fortify Barter- sells for full price

1. 5% speechcraft (at max already)
2. 10% better prices (5/5 in speechcraft perks)
3. 45% better prices for 30 seconds


If I'm not mistaken, sell prices are capped at half of the value of the item. Shouldn't be too hard to test it, but I don't have 100 speechcraft yet so
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
November 26 2011 18:10 GMT
#7957
my text probably sounded very negative - but there are so many little things that add up to destroy the game for me. You can either abuse the mechanics and its impossible to lose. Or you cant engage more than 1 enemy at a time. I just don't get it. Also i hate the leveling system in the current way - i think it makes a lot of sense to level up skills individually but its stupid that skills like lock picking increase your total level making the enemys harder without you getting any aditional damage is just very weird.
So they add stuff like alchemy but using it a lot is a bad thing? Putting points into alchemy will make your char weak once finished - that just doesnt make any sense.

Also its so sad to see that 2 weeks after release a modder codes a decent interface - they probably worked like 10 years on skyrim and couldnt even create a proper interface?

The more i think about the more stuff comes to my mind that i didnt like about skyrim, there was stuff i liked too the bow training area was kinda fun and hard to find. Also inside the brain of crazy guy was kinda cool. But 99% of the game is just the same "kill someone, claim reward" and there is nothing to get anymore - 10h in the game you can already have the best gear and what is the point of going on afterwards?
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
November 26 2011 18:11 GMT
#7958
On November 27 2011 03:03 Skilledblob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 02:59 daemir wrote:
Yea, poisons for mage damage scaling, so you need to grab some form of weapons, swing at the mob and deliver a poison before you can nuke it properly with your spells

how about melee characters all have to learn conjuration to summon their weapons before they can go melee :x

destruction scaling is non existant, actually all magic scaling is non existant. Illusion beats ass as you turn one overpowered mob to beat another and conjuration doesn't have time to get outdated as dremora lord's stats are so high, but destruction falls far from being as effective as you'd expect an archmage 100 skill toss out. Simply a perk / spell issue, they need to scale. Or needs to have gear that enhances the damage.

Everyone who finds a few mana potions have effectively 0 mp cost spells anyway as you can gulp instant effect potions while the game is paused. So instead of enchanting, you could get "0" mana costs from alchemy.


I dont see the problem. You whine about destruction not being enough alone but did you even think about that it might not be intended that you run around and just one shot everything with big ass fireballs?

You are a frickin mage so make use of the tools you are supplied with and this does include summons and illusion spells.

Weapon based characters dont have such a wide number of tactics they can rely on that's the reason why the weapons have to scale a bit.


I am not whining, I'm saying that magic doesn't scale and it should. As for mixing all possible spell schools at once, sure, once I'm level 40 with all the spells and perks in those trees, but casting say an expert level spell from a school that you didn't have perks in for mana reduce (or enchants) is gonna take far over half your mana pool.

If something in this game does one shotting, it's anything that deals physical damage combined with sneak, NOT anything magic related. And surprise, it's due to how sneak damage _scales_ from perks, something magic lacks.

Oh well, once the mods are out..
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
November 26 2011 18:13 GMT
#7959
On November 27 2011 03:11 daemir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 03:03 Skilledblob wrote:
On November 27 2011 02:59 daemir wrote:
Yea, poisons for mage damage scaling, so you need to grab some form of weapons, swing at the mob and deliver a poison before you can nuke it properly with your spells

how about melee characters all have to learn conjuration to summon their weapons before they can go melee :x

destruction scaling is non existant, actually all magic scaling is non existant. Illusion beats ass as you turn one overpowered mob to beat another and conjuration doesn't have time to get outdated as dremora lord's stats are so high, but destruction falls far from being as effective as you'd expect an archmage 100 skill toss out. Simply a perk / spell issue, they need to scale. Or needs to have gear that enhances the damage.

Everyone who finds a few mana potions have effectively 0 mp cost spells anyway as you can gulp instant effect potions while the game is paused. So instead of enchanting, you could get "0" mana costs from alchemy.


I dont see the problem. You whine about destruction not being enough alone but did you even think about that it might not be intended that you run around and just one shot everything with big ass fireballs?

You are a frickin mage so make use of the tools you are supplied with and this does include summons and illusion spells.

Weapon based characters dont have such a wide number of tactics they can rely on that's the reason why the weapons have to scale a bit.


I am not whining, I'm saying that magic doesn't scale and it should. As for mixing all possible spell schools at once, sure, once I'm level 40 with all the spells and perks in those trees, but casting say an expert level spell from a school that you didn't have perks in for mana reduce (or enchants) is gonna take far over half your mana pool.

If something in this game does one shotting, it's anything that deals physical damage combined with sneak, NOT anything magic related. And surprise, it's due to how sneak damage _scales_ from perks, something magic lacks.

Oh well, once the mods are out..
destruction magic does stunlock things you know
aaaaa
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
November 26 2011 18:16 GMT
#7960
On November 27 2011 03:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
my text probably sounded very negative - but there are so many little things that add up to destroy the game for me. You can either abuse the mechanics and its impossible to lose. Or you cant engage more than 1 enemy at a time. I just don't get it. Also i hate the leveling system in the current way - i think it makes a lot of sense to level up skills individually but its stupid that skills like lock picking increase your total level making the enemys harder without you getting any aditional damage is just very weird.
So they add stuff like alchemy but using it a lot is a bad thing? Putting points into alchemy will make your char weak once finished - that just doesnt make any sense.

Also its so sad to see that 2 weeks after release a modder codes a decent interface - they probably worked like 10 years on skyrim and couldnt even create a proper interface?

The more i think about the more stuff comes to my mind that i didnt like about skyrim, there was stuff i liked too the bow training area was kinda fun and hard to find. Also inside the brain of crazy guy was kinda cool. But 99% of the game is just the same "kill someone, claim reward" and there is nothing to get anymore - 10h in the game you can already have the best gear and what is the point of going on afterwards?

You just seem to be playing the game wrong man. Don't level up crafting skills so fast, you'll be behind in other skills and just die. Get a few levels, then start pumping crafting if that's what you're going for. Use tactics, when facing multiple opponents dodge attacks, find places to hide, use followers/summons, use cold spells to kite, use rune spells, there's really tons of options.

Otherwise, you just have the wrong mindset. When you play this game thinking "oh I'm gonna do so many cool quests and have an epic storyline and character development!" you're not thinking of Skyrim. This game is more about exploration, both map wise and character wise, than about story. Walk around, find random dungeon, don't have a quest in it? Fuck that, just go in, you might get a new shout or just face some challenges.

The game is sweet, just don't abuse the game engine and you'll be fine.
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