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On November 27 2011 04:24 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 02:26 ETisME wrote:On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
there are two ways to play skyrim
1) use the bad balance and oneshot everything on the highest difficulty
2) get your ass handed by trash mobs on mid difficulty
both ways are no fun at all it feels like they sold an editor to the modding community and thats it. They rather should have used a smaller map less quests but balance the goddamn game or at least test it once to weed out the super stupid stuff before they release it.They put trainers that level you for gold all over the map but LEVELING IS A BAD THING especially as mage, all level ups do is increase your enemy hp/dmg but you get a lot less additional damage/hp and none extra damage as mage. Or you just rush for the imbalanced armors because forging is basically free, the fastest way to win the game is probably chop wood sell it and buy leather/iron make daggers enchant them sell it for 17557457k and have the daedran armor in like 2 hours take a random bow and oneshot everything.
Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.
i tested the game as mage/archer/ 1h melee (each one played over 15h archer about 40h),
I knew that they will probably release the game as a better beta version especially because they have to ship before d3 or they wont sell a single copy but i am disappointed by this piece of garbage they delivered.
but yeah has cool gfx lol Really? I think you are forgetting that you can learn new spells as a mage and you can go beyond destruction. (I play Mage) There had always been multiple ways to beat the elder scroll games, you can make an ideal perfect character or just play whatever the hell you want. But the key is that it isn't a multiplayer game, the end character doesn't really matter as long as you are there and still can win the game. There isn't "imbalance" or "balance", there are routes that are easier to play as, there are routes that are more interesting. Don't complain about getting best of everything and one-shotting everything....You made the choice to go that route and you aren't even playing to compete lol The highest difficulty should be challenging if you play your absolute best.. You shouldn't have to purposefully not do your best to let the highest difficulty be a challenge. Why do people keep defending this retarded balance in this game? Because it's a singleplayer game and you can do what you want it suddenly doesn't matter how awful the entire design of leveling and the perks/skills in this game is??? Part of the fun in a RPG for most players is tweaking your character and finding the best build with which they can manage to defeat the game on the highest level. With skyrim there are just a couple builds that are so retardedly broken that they completely break the game, some people that would have difficulty beating some stuff on adept can easily breeze through masters while using on such build (I did for example). It is just terrible design and doesn't help this being a good game. Shite morons defending everything is just annoying.
You make some good points, but come on -- was that last sentence really necessary?
You seem to be forgetting though that in RPG there is RolePlaying. Sure, computer games have seldom really stuck to this aspect, but you shouldn't bash people that don't see powergaming as an attractive passtime. The draw of Elder Scrolls games has never really been balanced gameplay, but exploration and interaction. If balance is the price of being able to craft your character however you want, then I think it's acceptable. There are plenty of other games which follow the other objective.
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On November 27 2011 04:34 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 04:24 Markwerf wrote:On November 27 2011 02:26 ETisME wrote:On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
there are two ways to play skyrim
1) use the bad balance and oneshot everything on the highest difficulty
2) get your ass handed by trash mobs on mid difficulty
both ways are no fun at all it feels like they sold an editor to the modding community and thats it. They rather should have used a smaller map less quests but balance the goddamn game or at least test it once to weed out the super stupid stuff before they release it.They put trainers that level you for gold all over the map but LEVELING IS A BAD THING especially as mage, all level ups do is increase your enemy hp/dmg but you get a lot less additional damage/hp and none extra damage as mage. Or you just rush for the imbalanced armors because forging is basically free, the fastest way to win the game is probably chop wood sell it and buy leather/iron make daggers enchant them sell it for 17557457k and have the daedran armor in like 2 hours take a random bow and oneshot everything.
Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.
i tested the game as mage/archer/ 1h melee (each one played over 15h archer about 40h),
I knew that they will probably release the game as a better beta version especially because they have to ship before d3 or they wont sell a single copy but i am disappointed by this piece of garbage they delivered.
but yeah has cool gfx lol Really? I think you are forgetting that you can learn new spells as a mage and you can go beyond destruction. (I play Mage) There had always been multiple ways to beat the elder scroll games, you can make an ideal perfect character or just play whatever the hell you want. But the key is that it isn't a multiplayer game, the end character doesn't really matter as long as you are there and still can win the game. There isn't "imbalance" or "balance", there are routes that are easier to play as, there are routes that are more interesting. Don't complain about getting best of everything and one-shotting everything....You made the choice to go that route and you aren't even playing to compete lol The highest difficulty should be challenging if you play your absolute best.. You shouldn't have to purposefully not do your best to let the highest difficulty be a challenge. Why do people keep defending this retarded balance in this game? Because it's a singleplayer game and you can do what you want it suddenly doesn't matter how awful the entire design of leveling and the perks/skills in this game is??? Part of the fun in a RPG for most players is tweaking your character and finding the best build with which they can manage to defeat the game on the highest level. With skyrim there are just a couple builds that are so retardedly broken that they completely break the game, some people that would have difficulty beating some stuff on adept can easily breeze through masters while using on such build (I did for example). It is just terrible design and doesn't help this being a good game. Shite morons defending everything is just annoying. You make some good points, but come on -- was that last sentence really necessary? You seem to be forgetting though that in RPG there is RolePlaying. Sure, computer games have seldom really stuck to this aspect, but you shouldn't bash people that don't see powergaming as an attractive passtime. The draw of Elder Scrolls games has never really been balanced gameplay, but exploration and interaction. If balance is the price of being able to craft your character however you want, then I think it's acceptable. There are plenty of other games which follow the other objective.
It's ridiculous how people will feel sympathetic towards people who dislike "grinding" and "powergaming", but then turn the other way and ridicule those who do by objectively saying it's not enjoyable. People should just stop bashing.
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On November 27 2011 04:34 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 04:24 Markwerf wrote:On November 27 2011 02:26 ETisME wrote:On November 27 2011 02:10 idonthinksobro wrote:
there are two ways to play skyrim
1) use the bad balance and oneshot everything on the highest difficulty
2) get your ass handed by trash mobs on mid difficulty
both ways are no fun at all it feels like they sold an editor to the modding community and thats it. They rather should have used a smaller map less quests but balance the goddamn game or at least test it once to weed out the super stupid stuff before they release it.They put trainers that level you for gold all over the map but LEVELING IS A BAD THING especially as mage, all level ups do is increase your enemy hp/dmg but you get a lot less additional damage/hp and none extra damage as mage. Or you just rush for the imbalanced armors because forging is basically free, the fastest way to win the game is probably chop wood sell it and buy leather/iron make daggers enchant them sell it for 17557457k and have the daedran armor in like 2 hours take a random bow and oneshot everything.
Also i dont get it mages don't get additional damage at all - they dont have weapons and the damage doesnt increase if you level your char also its a fact that there is literally no loot for mages but 1 robe like 20h in the game even if you go to mage academy right after starting the mainquest.
i tested the game as mage/archer/ 1h melee (each one played over 15h archer about 40h),
I knew that they will probably release the game as a better beta version especially because they have to ship before d3 or they wont sell a single copy but i am disappointed by this piece of garbage they delivered.
but yeah has cool gfx lol Really? I think you are forgetting that you can learn new spells as a mage and you can go beyond destruction. (I play Mage) There had always been multiple ways to beat the elder scroll games, you can make an ideal perfect character or just play whatever the hell you want. But the key is that it isn't a multiplayer game, the end character doesn't really matter as long as you are there and still can win the game. There isn't "imbalance" or "balance", there are routes that are easier to play as, there are routes that are more interesting. Don't complain about getting best of everything and one-shotting everything....You made the choice to go that route and you aren't even playing to compete lol The highest difficulty should be challenging if you play your absolute best.. You shouldn't have to purposefully not do your best to let the highest difficulty be a challenge. Why do people keep defending this retarded balance in this game? Because it's a singleplayer game and you can do what you want it suddenly doesn't matter how awful the entire design of leveling and the perks/skills in this game is??? Part of the fun in a RPG for most players is tweaking your character and finding the best build with which they can manage to defeat the game on the highest level. With skyrim there are just a couple builds that are so retardedly broken that they completely break the game, some people that would have difficulty beating some stuff on adept can easily breeze through masters while using on such build (I did for example). It is just terrible design and doesn't help this being a good game. Shite morons defending everything is just annoying. You make some good points, but come on -- was that last sentence really necessary? You seem to be forgetting though that in RPG there is RolePlaying. Sure, computer games have seldom really stuck to this aspect, but you shouldn't bash people that don't see powergaming as an attractive passtime. The draw of Elder Scrolls games has never really been balanced gameplay, but exploration and interaction. If balance is the price of being able to craft your character however you want, then I think it's acceptable. There are plenty of other games which follow the other objective.
He's talking about the highest difficulty only. If you're interested in the roleplaying side, don't play on master.
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Perhaps Bethesda will listen and put something even more difficult than Master.
But to be fair, Master get easy only if you abuse the shit out of enchant and smithing.
I'm lvl 42 on a pure mage, and with no smithing ( obviously.. ) and mid enchanting ( i have like -17% destro cost on most of my gear, no double enchant yet ) i have a hard time when i don't abuse my double dremora lord conjuration.
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How do you guys level conjuration? I mostly use destruction, but I've hit around 60 with conjuration and levelling seems so slow. Using bound weapons takes ages, not to mention it's pretty weak compared to destruction spells in my current state. I did some testing summoning an atronach and killing it with bound weapons, and man it is going to take years using bound weapons in a normal way..
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On November 27 2011 04:47 Noocta wrote:
Perhaps Bethesda will listen and put something even more difficult than Master.
But to be fair, Master get easy only if you abuse the shit out of enchant and smithing.
I'm lvl 42 on a pure mage, and with no smithing ( obviously.. ) and mid enchanting ( i have like -17% destro cost on most of my gear, no double enchant yet ) i have a hard time when i don't abuse my double dremora lord conjuration.
A difficulty above master would be great. I'm almost pure mage minus conjuration, and don't use any of the crafting professions but I can deal with master quite fine now. lvl 38.
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On November 27 2011 04:47 Noocta wrote:
Perhaps Bethesda will listen and put something even more difficult than Master.
But to be fair, Master get easy only if you abuse the shit out of enchant and smithing.
I'm lvl 42 on a pure mage, and with no smithing ( obviously.. ) and mid enchanting ( i have like -17% destro cost on most of my gear, no double enchant yet ) i have a hard time when i don't abuse my double dremora lord conjuration.
You have a hard time playing mage? Do you have impact? the perk that let you stunlock everyone, even dragons?
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A difficulty above master would mean changing one value when the editor is released basically. The "difficulty" in TES is just damage reduction for the player and extra health for enemies after all.
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On November 27 2011 04:51 Warfie wrote:
How do you guys level conjuration? I mostly use destruction, but I've hit around 60 with conjuration and levelling seems so slow. Using bound weapons takes ages, not to mention it's pretty weak compared to destruction spells in my current state. I did some testing summoning an atronach and killing it with bound weapons, and man it is going to take years using bound weapons in a normal way..
It's good. Useful to all classes actually. The dumb AI likes to go for your summon and ignore you, even though you're doing more damage than your summon.
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If my smithing is leveling and I talk to someone does it stop leveling midway?
I ask this because I massed a lot of smithing recently and it stopped after I finished talking to the guy, I'm not sure if it stopped (meaning a bug) or it just simply stop showing the animated progression bar.
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On November 27 2011 04:55 Jindo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 04:51 Warfie wrote:
How do you guys level conjuration? I mostly use destruction, but I've hit around 60 with conjuration and levelling seems so slow. Using bound weapons takes ages, not to mention it's pretty weak compared to destruction spells in my current state. I did some testing summoning an atronach and killing it with bound weapons, and man it is going to take years using bound weapons in a normal way.. It's good. Useful to all classes actually. The dumb AI likes to go for your summon and ignore you, even though you're doing more damage than your summon.
I know it's good, that's not what I'm asking though. Does the atronach's damage count towards leveling conjuration? It just feels like destruction leveled alot faster.
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On November 27 2011 05:00 Torte de Lini wrote:
If my smithing is leveling and I talk to someone does it stop leveling midway?
I ask this because I massed a lot of smithing recently and it stopped after I finished talking to the guy, I'm not sure if it stopped (meaning a bug) or it just simply stop showing the animated progression bar.
What? Did you advance to the next level already but didnt go into the skills option to "reset" the bar? If thats the case, it might not look like youre gaining levels but you do, it just wont show until you go into skills.
Making a thief/assassin pure sword and then dagger when I get x15 perk. Is it worth going Daedric smithing instead of the otherway for the daedric daggers? Or are a blade of woe and mehrunes dagger obtained late(20-25+?) even better? Also, is it worth investing into the first perks of the One-Handed tree? (+x% one handed dmg)
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On November 27 2011 04:47 Noocta wrote:
Perhaps Bethesda will listen and put something even more difficult than Master.
But to be fair, Master get easy only if you abuse the shit out of enchant and smithing.
I'm lvl 42 on a pure mage, and with no smithing ( obviously.. ) and mid enchanting ( i have like -17% destro cost on most of my gear, no double enchant yet ) i have a hard time when i don't abuse my double dremora lord conjuration.
Pretty much....its not the difficulty Bathesda needs to fix its the broken builds. Even if there was a difficulty twice as hard as masters it would still be easy with a broken build. Warrior with the smithing/enchanting 100 combo. Sneak tree at 100 is just broken period....going around 1 shotting everything and insta stealth. Mages making spells cost 0 mana. The block 100 talent looks pretty broken too, haven't tried it yet tho. Take these things out of the equation and master is still a decent challenge.
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On November 27 2011 04:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
A difficulty above master would mean changing one value when the editor is released basically. The "difficulty" in TES is just damage reduction for the player and extra health for enemies after all. Yeah, I wish a higher difficulty would mean better AI and not only 'lolz moar damage'.
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On November 27 2011 05:02 Warfie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 04:55 Jindo wrote:On November 27 2011 04:51 Warfie wrote:
How do you guys level conjuration? I mostly use destruction, but I've hit around 60 with conjuration and levelling seems so slow. Using bound weapons takes ages, not to mention it's pretty weak compared to destruction spells in my current state. I did some testing summoning an atronach and killing it with bound weapons, and man it is going to take years using bound weapons in a normal way.. It's good. Useful to all classes actually. The dumb AI likes to go for your summon and ignore you, even though you're doing more damage than your summon. I know it's good, that's not what I'm asking though. Does the atronach's damage count towards leveling conjuration? It just feels like destruction leveled alot faster.
Raising corpses seems to level it a lot faster than using atronach's for some reason...I leveled it faster than destruction by just raising every mob I killed. You can also cast soul drain on a dead corpse over and over if you want a cheap/fast way to do it.
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On November 27 2011 05:02 Warfie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 04:55 Jindo wrote:On November 27 2011 04:51 Warfie wrote:
How do you guys level conjuration? I mostly use destruction, but I've hit around 60 with conjuration and levelling seems so slow. Using bound weapons takes ages, not to mention it's pretty weak compared to destruction spells in my current state. I did some testing summoning an atronach and killing it with bound weapons, and man it is going to take years using bound weapons in a normal way.. It's good. Useful to all classes actually. The dumb AI likes to go for your summon and ignore you, even though you're doing more damage than your summon. I know it's good, that's not what I'm asking though. Does the atronach's damage count towards leveling conjuration? It just feels like destruction leveled alot faster.
Conjuration skill go up if you cast summoning spell near enemies, you can also cast soul trap on enemies to improve Conjuration. There are, of course....exploits to achieve 100 Conjuration in a breeze.
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Imo, a way to fix the difficulty is having easy to hard dungeons (easier dungeons becoming more challenging though). Then the game should see what you CAN kill, and use appropriate world enemies instead of basing it straight off of your level. (this is probably impossible for a mod though)
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How about if enemy can use their racial power once a day just like the PC? Then maybe you'll actually fear that Berzerk Orc warrior charging in your direction haha.
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On November 27 2011 05:13 Jindo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 05:02 Warfie wrote:On November 27 2011 04:55 Jindo wrote:On November 27 2011 04:51 Warfie wrote:
How do you guys level conjuration? I mostly use destruction, but I've hit around 60 with conjuration and levelling seems so slow. Using bound weapons takes ages, not to mention it's pretty weak compared to destruction spells in my current state. I did some testing summoning an atronach and killing it with bound weapons, and man it is going to take years using bound weapons in a normal way.. It's good. Useful to all classes actually. The dumb AI likes to go for your summon and ignore you, even though you're doing more damage than your summon. I know it's good, that's not what I'm asking though. Does the atronach's damage count towards leveling conjuration? It just feels like destruction leveled alot faster. Conjuration skill go up if you cast summoning spell near enemies, you can also cast soul trap on enemies to improve Conjuration. There are, of course....exploits to achieve 100 Conjuration in a breeze.
Ah! How could I just forget about soul trap.. Heh, been using a weapon with soul trap on it and my favorites list has kept it hidden deep in my spell book. Thanks for the tip, trying to not exploit my way to level 100! Also going to revive dead bodies more often, I've been favoring atronachs thus far. I really like how they are immune to your elemental damage so that if you go all out frost/flame/shock, they can be in the line of fire without dying, but I'll definitely switch it up if it means I can level it a bit faster.
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On November 27 2011 05:04 ZaaaaaM wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 05:00 Torte de Lini wrote:
If my smithing is leveling and I talk to someone does it stop leveling midway?
I ask this because I massed a lot of smithing recently and it stopped after I finished talking to the guy, I'm not sure if it stopped (meaning a bug) or it just simply stop showing the animated progression bar. What? Did you advance to the next level already but didnt go into the skills option to "reset" the bar? If thats the case, it might not look like youre gaining levels but you do, it just wont show until you go into skills. Making a thief/assassin pure sword and then dagger when I get x15 perk. Is it worth going Daedric smithing instead of the otherway for the daedric daggers? Or are a blade of woe and mehrunes dagger obtained late(20-25+?) even better? Also, is it worth investing into the first perks of the One-Handed tree? (+x% one handed dmg)
Heh, I think I know what he's referring to 
Don't worry, it just looks that way, it makes no difference.
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EPT
