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On February 10 2011 11:38 BalliSLife wrote:
Excellent post as usual Cyric. If we had to just have fun with it to make things simpler, and if I could simulate a real life game between 5 players from the 80s to 90's-95 to go up against any top 5 from our current league who would you choose from either side and who (in theory) would you think wins?
My time is limited right now but my five would be
Rondo
Kobe
Lebron
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
I know it seems really 2k11ish but to me, this team is pure athleticism and definitely not bad defensively. I have a hard time imagining a combo from the 80s that beats this.
Pack the paint with Hakeem and Mutombo, and only Kobe can score consistently. Throw in Pippen, none of them can score.
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On February 10 2011 12:42 igotmyown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 11:38 BalliSLife wrote:
Excellent post as usual Cyric. If we had to just have fun with it to make things simpler, and if I could simulate a real life game between 5 players from the 80s to 90's-95 to go up against any top 5 from our current league who would you choose from either side and who (in theory) would you think wins?
My time is limited right now but my five would be
Rondo
Kobe
Lebron
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
I know it seems really 2k11ish but to me, this team is pure athleticism and definitely not bad defensively. I have a hard time imagining a combo from the 80s that beats this. Pack the paint with Hakeem and Mutombo, and only Kobe can score consistently. Throw in Pippen, none of them can score.
lol, but that's why you have Blake and Dwight to cover. And there is definitely
no way Kobe and lebron will have bad games at the same time.
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On February 10 2011 12:42 igotmyown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 11:38 BalliSLife wrote:
Excellent post as usual Cyric. If we had to just have fun with it to make things simpler, and if I could simulate a real life game between 5 players from the 80s to 90's-95 to go up against any top 5 from our current league who would you choose from either side and who (in theory) would you think wins?
My time is limited right now but my five would be
Rondo
Kobe
Lebron
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
I know it seems really 2k11ish but to me, this team is pure athleticism and definitely not bad defensively. I have a hard time imagining a combo from the 80s that beats this. Pack the paint with Hakeem and Mutombo, and only Kobe can score consistently. Throw in Pippen, none of them can score.
Pippen was good, but saying he would shut down Kobe is pretty far fetched. Kobe has yet to be shut down by anyone not named kobe. At the Kobe/Wade/Lebron/Durant level of skill and athleticism, you don't shut them down. I find it amusing when people say things like that. When you have ridiculous athletic specimens that can utilize every bit of that athleticsim, you can try and limit their looks, and double team, but if you have 5 of those guys, then you're left with just hoping people don't hit their shots. I don't think any of those old players are going to SHUT down any of the best players of today. i think most of them have proved that noone shuts them down consistently, they just have bad nights shooting.
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80-95:
C - Hakeem - (1994-1995 world beater version)
PF - McHale (1987 version pre-broken foot)
SF - Bird (early 80s board crasher version, MJ/McHale/Hakeem need the shots)
SG - Jordan (1988 version)
PG - Johnson (again, early 80s version, probably 1982)
95-2010:
C - Shaq (2000 version)
PF - Duncan (2003 version)
SF - LeBron (whichever version you want)
SG - Bryant (hard to say which year)
PG - Paul (2008 version)
No idea who would win that. It would be nice to expand it to 12 man rosters to get a better picture.
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United States4471 Posts
My modern day team:
Deron Williams
Good size/strength, good defender, great range, can take it strong to the basket, and can be pretty effective without having the ball in his hands the whole time (helpful with Kobe and Lebron on your team). I was thinking Paul first, but I think Paul thrives when he has the ball in his hands, and he wouldn't on a team with Kobe and Lebron. Deron, as shown in the Utah offense, is great moving off the ball and can score all over the court.
Kobe Bryant
No explanation needed.
Lebron James
No explanation needed.
Tim Duncan
No explanation needed.
Shaquille O'Neal/Dwight Howard
Depending on far back we're going, I'll take Shaq over D12 at the same point in their careers. I know people talk about how Olajuwon destroyed Shaq in the Finals the one time they met, but that was the Dream at his peak against Shaq who was not. Shaq, when healthy, in-shape, and motivated, was the most dominant force in basketball ever. Immovable and unstoppable. Great passer and underrated ballhandler for his size/position. Quicker, smoother and more athletic than people give him credit for. Dwight is the best Center right now and is invaluable for his defense alone. Would have had no hope against a prime Shaq though.
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There is such a glut of "good" point guards in the modern era because of the rule changes. Most of them play a style that would be completely worthless in the Jordan era. (I.E. Nash, Rose, Williams, Parker) Players like Tyreke Evans and Dwayne Wade are similar in that they would be much less valuable before the rule changes. Even Lebron would have to change his game dramatically and actually develop a low post game + outside shot + free throw shot.
However, players like Dwight Howard/Tim Duncan/Blake Griffin would translate back perfectly, as would outside scorers like Kobe and Melo.
Edit (more explanation)
There were literally 2 people that could get to the basket from the perimeter throughout the 80s/90s Isiah Thomas and Michael Jordan, everyone else was limited to probing and cutting and then banging it inside. Most of the modern scorers do so by driving to the tin and drawing fouls. This wouldn't work back then because 1. Handchecking, 2. those contact fouls would not be called, and 3. The fouls that were called would be a big (like Rodman/Mahorn or DAvid Robinson) smashing you to the floor (and guess what its not a flagrant).
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United States4471 Posts
On February 10 2011 13:37 city42 wrote:
80-95:
C - Hakeem - (1994-1995 world beater version)
PF - McHale (1987 version pre-broken foot)
SF - Bird (early 80s board crasher version, MJ/McHale/Hakeem need the shots)
SG - Jordan (1988 version)
PG - Johnson (again, early 80s version, probably 1982)
95-2010:
C - Shaq (2000 version)
PF - Duncan (2003 version)
SF - LeBron (whichever version you want)
SG - Bryant (hard to say which year)
PG - Paul (2008 version)
No idea who would win that. It would be nice to expand it to 12 man rosters to get a better picture.
Pretty much my picks, except subbing Deron for Paul due to the reasons explained in my post. Would also match up better against Magic's size.
The idea of Bird guarding Lebron is a bit hard to imagine. I would also tend to think that Duncan would be more able to defend McHale than vice-versa.
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On February 10 2011 13:34 Sm3agol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 12:42 igotmyown wrote:On February 10 2011 11:38 BalliSLife wrote:
Excellent post as usual Cyric. If we had to just have fun with it to make things simpler, and if I could simulate a real life game between 5 players from the 80s to 90's-95 to go up against any top 5 from our current league who would you choose from either side and who (in theory) would you think wins?
My time is limited right now but my five would be
Rondo
Kobe
Lebron
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
I know it seems really 2k11ish but to me, this team is pure athleticism and definitely not bad defensively. I have a hard time imagining a combo from the 80s that beats this. Pack the paint with Hakeem and Mutombo, and only Kobe can score consistently. Throw in Pippen, none of them can score. Pippen was good, but saying he would shut down Kobe is pretty far fetched. Kobe has yet to be shut down by anyone not named kobe. At the Kobe/Wade/Lebron/Durant level of skill and athleticism, you don't shut them down. I find it amusing when people say things like that. When you have ridiculous athletic specimens that can utilize every bit of that athleticsim, you can try and limit their looks, and double team, but if you have 5 of those guys, then you're left with just hoping people don't hit their shots. I don't think any of those old players are going to SHUT down any of the best players of today. i think most of them have proved that noone shuts them down consistently, they just have bad nights shooting.
Boston shut down Wade, Kobe and Lebron each while allowing them all to have only 1 big game.
@city: Johnson over GARY PEYTON!?!?!!?!?!?!?!? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Edit: I'm picking Gary over Magic because a Payton/MJ back court can guard all wings interchangeably (except Lebron). With MJ/Peyton all the ball handling is already taken care of and we've still got a decent passer at PG. With MJ/Hakeem I really think I'd rather have one of, if not the best defensive PG to ever play the game.
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On February 10 2011 14:04 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 13:37 city42 wrote:
80-95:
C - Hakeem - (1994-1995 world beater version)
PF - McHale (1987 version pre-broken foot)
SF - Bird (early 80s board crasher version, MJ/McHale/Hakeem need the shots)
SG - Jordan (1988 version)
PG - Johnson (again, early 80s version, probably 1982)
95-2010:
C - Shaq (2000 version)
PF - Duncan (2003 version)
SF - LeBron (whichever version you want)
SG - Bryant (hard to say which year)
PG - Paul (2008 version)
No idea who would win that. It would be nice to expand it to 12 man rosters to get a better picture. Pretty much my picks, except subbing Deron for Paul due to the reasons explained in my post. Would also match up better against Magic's size. The idea of Bird guarding Lebron is a bit hard to imagine. I would also tend to think that Duncan would be more able to defend McHale than vice-versa.
I thought about it, and your case against Paul makes a lot of sense. I think there's actually one better candidate than Deron: how about The Glove circa 1996 or 2000?
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On February 10 2011 14:21 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 13:34 Sm3agol wrote:On February 10 2011 12:42 igotmyown wrote:On February 10 2011 11:38 BalliSLife wrote:
Excellent post as usual Cyric. If we had to just have fun with it to make things simpler, and if I could simulate a real life game between 5 players from the 80s to 90's-95 to go up against any top 5 from our current league who would you choose from either side and who (in theory) would you think wins?
My time is limited right now but my five would be
Rondo
Kobe
Lebron
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
I know it seems really 2k11ish but to me, this team is pure athleticism and definitely not bad defensively. I have a hard time imagining a combo from the 80s that beats this. Pack the paint with Hakeem and Mutombo, and only Kobe can score consistently. Throw in Pippen, none of them can score. Pippen was good, but saying he would shut down Kobe is pretty far fetched. Kobe has yet to be shut down by anyone not named kobe. At the Kobe/Wade/Lebron/Durant level of skill and athleticism, you don't shut them down. I find it amusing when people say things like that. When you have ridiculous athletic specimens that can utilize every bit of that athleticsim, you can try and limit their looks, and double team, but if you have 5 of those guys, then you're left with just hoping people don't hit their shots. I don't think any of those old players are going to SHUT down any of the best players of today. i think most of them have proved that noone shuts them down consistently, they just have bad nights shooting. Boston shut down Wade, Kobe and Lebron each while allowing them all to have only 1 big game. @city: Johnson over GARY PEYTON!?!?!!?!?!?!?!? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Wow, weird timing. As soon as I tacked GP onto my 1995-2010 team, I saw your post. I'm a huge Glove fan and he can have a spot on my team any day.
I meant Magic Johnson of course, not KJ. KJ definitely deserves mention on the list of guys who would be a whole lot better today than in their era, though.
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You know...a guy like Zach Randolph would be very interesting to see in the 80s/90s. I think him, Boozer, and even Al Jefferson would fit in seamlessly in that era.
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Was my choice of Rondo bad? Cause I still believe my picks are the strongest. Actually my 6th man would be prime Tim Duncan as a sub for Blake Griffin or vice versa. So it'd be Rondo, Kobe, Lebron, TD/BG, Dwight Howard.
I'm gonna choose 80s but I'm only judging through what I see from highlights instead of stats.
Magic
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
I dont know any power forwards in this era.
Kareem Abdul Jabbar? (lol)
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I wouldn't mind Rondo but when Chris Paul and Deron Williams are available it's kind of hard to pick him. However, if Kobe was going to stay on the perimeter and play catch and shoot/screen and I had say, Dirk as my PF (dominant stretch 4) I'd say Rondo is a major plus with those 2.
For Shooting Guards I think besides Wade and Kobe the next best thing would be Joe Johnson (BIG 2-guard) or Kevin Martin (monstrous shooter). If I take Kevin Martin though I think I have to pair him with Deron Williams. If D-Will goes into the lane I think he comes back out after the 10th time. Paul/Rondo I don't know if I want to take the chance.
Also I'd never take Griffin. He's only been in the league half a season and by all accounts why take Griffin if you can have Kevin Love? If were talking PFs Kevin Garnett/Timmy/Dirk/current Amare all ahead of him by far.
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While watching D-rose tonight, I had flashbacks to the Jordan era... he's so damn good now. It's amazing how much better Rose has gotten in the last 2 years, even from the starting point of Rookie of the Year... O_O
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On February 10 2011 14:41 Ace wrote:
I wouldn't mind Rondo but when Chris Paul and Deron Williams are available it's kind of hard to pick him. However, if Kobe was going to stay on the perimeter and play catch and shoot/screen and I had say, Dirk as my PF (dominant stretch 4) I'd say Rondo is a major plus with those 2.
For Shooting Guards I think besides Wade and Kobe the next best thing would be Joe Johnson (BIG 2-guard) or Kevin Martin (monstrous shooter). If I take Kevin Martin though I think I have to pair him with Deron Williams. If D-Will goes into the lane I think he comes back out after the 10th time. Paul/Rondo I don't know if I want to take the chance.
Also I'd never take Griffin. He's only been in the league half a season and by all accounts why take Griffin if you can have Kevin Love? If were talking PFs Kevin Garnett/Timmy/Dirk/current Amare all ahead of him by far.
I think I chose Rondo only because of his D and his current ability to randomly dish out 20 assists lol. I guess Blake was a bad choice to throw him in there with more experienced post players hence I chose TD in my update for 6th man. With my team though I think its fair to say Jordan would cancel out either Kobe or Lebron but never both of them. But then again you could have Pippen. *head explodes
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No Karl Malone at PF people?! Could you imagine the Malone/Magic PnR!
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City, I think you're lineup is pretty good actually. I would choose the Kobe of now since he isn't as much of a "ball-hogger", I might even choose the 2008 Olympic Kobe since he was more of a playmaker in that gold medal run.
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On February 10 2011 14:21 Ace wrote:
Edit: I'm picking Gary over Magic because a Payton/MJ back court can guard all wings interchangeably (except Lebron). With MJ/Peyton all the ball handling is already taken care of and we've still got a decent passer at PG. With MJ/Hakeem I really think I'd rather have one of, if not the best defensive PG to ever play the game.
Oh geez, the thought of a Jordan/Payton defensive backcourt. You can just imagine them arguing over who's shutting down the other team's #1 guy. I really want to pair Magic and Bird, but Payton might be the better fit. For my money he's the best defensive PG ever for sure. I got to see him play in person and he just never stops bothering the guy he's guarding.
+ Show Spoiler [GP vs Stockton] +
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On February 10 2011 14:41 Ace wrote:
Also I'd never take Griffin. He's only been in the league half a season and by all accounts why take Griffin if you can have Kevin Love?
Didn't Griffin outright win the matchup against Love?
Blake Griffin is a physical phenomenon that rivals, perhaps even surpasses, anything we've seen so far. Just watching him snatch a rebound is amazing. It looks like he's playing on a Koosh hoop. Couple that with a good game sense, heart, and team-orientedness and you have a real force to reckon with.
KLove puts up good stats, but Griffin completely alters whatever game he's playing in. I just don't think they are on the same level. Then again, I get to watch Griffin regularly so maybe I'm biased, and I haven't really seen Love play.
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Because Kevin Love can stretch the court, play in the paint and is a better rebounder. Might end up being the better overall scorer too. Neither of them are good defenders and if I had to pick I'm taking Love over Griffin for sure.
Not to mention I can't ignore 3 years of consistency and rapid development compared to half a year of play. Especially when Love is better than Griffin is now.
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