NBA 2010-2011 Season - Page 75

On February 09 2011 14:43 city42 wrote:

Yes.


Why exactly is it laughable? And do you realize the contradiction you just put forth in this paragraph? First, you claim that today's players are either level or have the edge in the toughness department on the old school guys. Then, you claim that today's players last longer physically. The truth is, players of previous generations had shorter careers BECAUSE they were tougher. Do you think it helped Kevin McHale's career length expectancy when he played through 4 playoff rounds with a broken foot? Looking at a modern day warrior, how's that decision to rush back for the playoffs last year working out for Roy? Unfortunately players like Roy are becoming rarer and rarer.


Again, wrong. The attitude of today's game is different for two main reasons:

1) Players aren't just colleagues and coworkers, they are FRIENDS. They've been playing together since they were teenagers on AAU teams, and there is very little vitriol in the league. You make it seem like the NBA just had an epiphany and decided to be friendly. I don't recall Karl Malone giving up his style of play as he continued into the 2000s, and I don't see KG trying to make friends on the court (remember, he wasn't an AAU guy).
2) Stern has been gradually making the game more finesse-based in order to sell the brand internationally. Legalizing zone defense, adding a defensive 3 second violation, creating the charge circle, etc.


I really believe the exact opposite.

On February 09 2011 17:33 ricerocket wrote:


First of all, quote dissecting is pretty lame.

On February 09 2011 14:54 Judicator wrote:
Ace, regarding Kevin Love, I don't necessarily agree that he's doing it all because he's on a shitty team. There's been plenty of horribly shitty teams over the past decade and still no one has put up Love's numbers, stat-whore or not, it's still pretty amazing.

On February 09 2011 17:33 ricerocket wrote:


First of all, quote dissecting is pretty lame.

Secondly, you have to have realized you are reinforcing what I've said throughout your post. Careers were shortened by more physical play, and since today's league has "less" physical play, current players have longer careers. Which part of it does it appear to you that proves 80s players were tougher than today's? If they had been tougher, then today's NBA players should have similar career length despite the physicality being decreased.

And how is calling them "friends, not just colleagues and coworkers" a counter argument to me saying that's why they now care about each others' well being? If anything, it makes them care more. In the 80s, guys on rival teams act like mortal enemies of one another, that's what made play without any regard to opponent's safety. How often in the 80s did you see players hold on to a guy they just intentionally fouled to prevent a layup just so the guy doesn't fall down? Hell, how often did you even see them landing a hand to an opponent to help them get up?

That's the culture change I'm referring to. Maybe it's because of Stern's rule change, maybe it's something else, but if Isiah Thomas grew up under these softer rules today, he would be a softer guy like the rest of em.

I think everybody else is seeing this simple logic. Please take a minute to think about it before you post another supposed rebuttal.

On February 09 2011 17:02 igotmyown wrote:
Are we talking about current NBA players or current nba players in their career years? Kobe's defense the last two years has not impressed me.

Handcheck rules: they say Deron would be a monster in the old rules, while undersized chris paul wouldn't do very well. You can't stop quick point guards now, but how's Chris Paul going to drive if someone's holding him back with one hand?

MJ: His athleticism was off the charts. The only player who might challenge him on defense would be lebron, because he's so big and similarly athletic.

Howard: no way. You think Pau Gasol and Bynum would have shut down Hakeem or Ewing?

Shaq, Duncan they kind of played in both eras. Monsters in any time.

Magic, Bird: obviously much better playmakers than lebron, not a good comparison.

Durant: sorry, but until he can beat defenders like Artest, he hasn't proven he would dominate a more physical era.

On February 10 2011 01:45 city42 wrote:

No problem, I'll do it your way and write a giant blob.

Do you have an issue with reading comprehension? Nowhere did I say that careers were shortened by more physical play. I said that careers were shortened by players playing through injury. These two ideas are not synonymous. The changes to the rules have nothing at all to do with players playing through injury. Also, do you have numbers to back up a claim that there's a significant difference in career length between players in the 80s and now?

I'm just baffled how you manage to miss the point of everything. Being friends is a whole lot different from being "colleagues and coworkers." They might reach a similar end, but the means are wholly different. Realizing their status as colleagues and coworkers would involve some sort of league-wide enlightenment that occurred right around the 2004 season. In reality, basketball's popularity skyrocketed so much in the 90s that all these players were in the spotlight as kids, and they all know each other from AAU and powerhouse high schools. Saying that the players started to treat one another as colleagues proves that you don't understand the issue at hand. I think everyone else is seeing this simple logic.

You're really barking up the wrong tree with Isiah. That comment might be true about an average 80s player, but Isiah wasn't average. Why do you think KG and Artest stand out as crazy guys in a softer league? They both had crappy upbringings. It's the same story for Isiah. Growing up poor and hungry in Chicago with a pimp and a heroin addict for brothers (the addict died of AIDS) gave him the overwhelming desire to prove himself and succeed. This is a guy who, at 5'11, took swings at Bill Cartwright, Rick Mahorn, and pretty much every other big man of his era. Such behavior isn't indicative of your average 80s player, or your average player from any era.

On February 10 2011 06:10 ricerocket wrote:


Lol, why are you so insistent on differentiating relationship status between being colleagues and being friends? Have you recently reached puberty and just is really sensitive? We are talking about today's players caring more about one another's well being more than 80s' players did. And since you agree both "reach a similar end," let's stop wasting time on this moot point.

And please take more lessons in critical thinking. I said since they do care about one another's well being, this means general decrease in physicality during games, such as guys holding onto someone to both prevent a layup and him fouling hard on the floor. Please stop picking a hair between "less physical play" and "playing through injuries" and see the simple causal relationship between the two... or I can just spell it out for you I suppose: less physical play leads to less injuries in general leads to less need to play through injuries. Unless you want to argue today's players just don't play through injuries, in which case I would guess you didn't watch the playoffs last year and see Bynum playing through a bum knee for over a month after injuring it in the first round.

As for real numbers backing up today's players having longer careers, go look up a recent Bill Simmons column about stars extending their peaks. Please stop saying it's some kind of sudden enlightenment in 2004. It's not, guys Simmons listed have been playing since the 90s. The change is a gradual one, hence why someone like you who lacks the resolve or the intelligence to look beyond the surface of NBA rules and statistics would likely not to notice.

Oh, and the "crazy" Artest and Garnett would have killed a motherfucker on the court already if they were playing in the 80s, but like Isiah would have if he grew up playing in today's NBA, both have generally controlled themselves on the court. You know why? (hint: I just told you why)

On February 10 2011 06:41 Judicator wrote:


If you're gonna post like that just GTFO. If you honestly though Isiah would be a cool dude playing in today's NBA...lol, you clearly do not know Isiah. He's Artest before Artest, or rather Artest is kind of like him with less control (prior to counseling). Most of his teammates said something along the lines of he was cool until something set him off; whatever the trigger was, it was just overwhelming at that point.

On February 10 2011 06:44 ricerocket wrote:


... Thanks for repeating what I said.