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Mistapibb
United States78 Posts
On October 27 2010 10:24 SirToonces wrote: I enjoyed the story for Ogre Battle 64. Dark, Intriguing, Awesome. You sir, have my heart... That was my favorite n64 game because of the story | ||
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Obsidian
United States350 Posts
I also loved Xenogears as a standalone story. Combined with the Xenosaga, it becomes even more epic, but it was the first Playstation game I know of that had both a shower scene and a Soylent Green moment... epic! I personally loved the .Hack plots, but that was mostly because that's all there really was to them. Going retro though, Dragon Warrior 4 was pretty cool, and good old SNES Zelda was great as well. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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Slakkoo
Sweden1119 Posts
Just awesome, 'nuff said. EDIT: Man, I forgot any Monkey game... The Secret of Monkey Island. MI2: Lechucks Revenge. Curse of Monkey Island, oh maaaaaan. | ||
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NukeTheBunnys
United States1004 Posts
Take Enders Game, widely considered one of the best pieces of sci-fi out there, and it doesn't have production value and gameplay to fall back on so whatever you think about it comes only from the story. The main villains, "the buggers," are hardly talked about till the very end of the book, but there is still so much conflict between Ender and his siblings, the other students at battle school, the other teams at the school, and eventually with his own skill, then he finally actually starts facing the buggers. Throughout the book the source of conflict changes repeatedly. The book is good because there is interesting conflict the whole way through, the characters develop, and because the details of the story are engaging. The main villain is vague, and nebulous in the exact same way the reapers are. You can say that the story has been done a million times before, if you want to get it as generic as possible you can just say its a special kid who is trained from childhood to fight an impossible and unknowable enemy. But you can do this with any story ever conceived. System shock= man creates machine, machine rebels, man has to fight machine. That one line description sounds pretty bad, but the characterization, the details of the plot make it a compelling story. As for mass effect 2, I think it does has a good story, dispute having a pretty weak main villain. The reason the story is good is because the characters are distinct, and they evolve as the game progresses. There is a huge amount of details to get lost in, the history of the galaxy, the different races, all the different missions. The samara and jacob loyalty missions comes to mind as being particularity awesome. Now you can make them sound lame by saying one is a generic kid is evil, parent must punish, and the other is a son finds out father is a monster, but that really doesn't do them justice, the same way saying the lord of the rings is about some dude that walks really far then gets his finger bitten off. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On October 30 2010 00:04 NukeTheBunnys wrote: I have to disagree with Krigwin, mostly on the point that a story is only as good as is villain. Yes conflict is the essence of drama, but conflict arises from more then just the protagonist-antagonist relationship. Granted it can be a great source of drama, and I love games with good villains, but in may cases its not even the main source of drama. Take Enders Game, widely considered one of the best pieces of sci-fi out there, and it doesn't have production value and gameplay to fall back on so whatever you think about it comes only from the story. The main villains, "the buggers," are hardly talked about till the very end of the book, but there is still so much conflict between Ender and his siblings, the other students at battle school, the other teams at the school, and eventually with his own skill, then he finally actually starts facing the buggers. Throughout the book the source of conflict changes repeatedly. The book is good because there is interesting conflict the whole way through, the characters develop, and because the details of the story are engaging. The main villain is vague, and nebulous in the exact same way the reapers are. You can say that the story has been done a million times before, if you want to get it as generic as possible you can just say its a special kid who is trained from childhood to fight an impossible and unknowable enemy. But you can do this with any story ever conceived. System shock= man creates machine, machine rebels, man has to fight machine. That one line description sounds pretty bad, but the characterization, the details of the plot make it a compelling story. As for mass effect 2, I think it does has a good story, dispute having a pretty weak main villain. The reason the story is good is because the characters are distinct, and they evolve as the game progresses. There is a huge amount of details to get lost in, the history of the galaxy, the different races, all the different missions. The samara and jacob loyalty missions comes to mind as being particularity awesome. Now you can make them sound lame by saying one is a generic kid is evil, parent must punish, and the other is a son finds out father is a monster, but that really doesn't do them justice, the same way saying the lord of the rings is about some dude that walks really far then gets his finger bitten off. You missed my entire point in that all of the conflict in Mass Effect comes from the Reapers (which is actually really disappointing to people like me that were anticipating ME to be some kind of grand, epic space opera - you know, like they advertised it). Thus, the main drama of the three-game mytharc is the Reapers. Hence the conflict of the main story is weak, because the Reapers themselves have practically zero characterization. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Esper[mb]
United States88 Posts
#2 Chrono trigger #3 Half-life | ||
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NukeTheBunnys
United States1004 Posts
On October 30 2010 03:28 Krigwin wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 30 2010 00:04 NukeTheBunnys wrote: I have to disagree with Krigwin, mostly on the point that a story is only as good as is villain. Yes conflict is the essence of drama, but conflict arises from more then just the protagonist-antagonist relationship. Granted it can be a great source of drama, and I love games with good villains, but in may cases its not even the main source of drama. Take Enders Game, widely considered one of the best pieces of sci-fi out there, and it doesn't have production value and gameplay to fall back on so whatever you think about it comes only from the story. The main villains, "the buggers," are hardly talked about till the very end of the book, but there is still so much conflict between Ender and his siblings, the other students at battle school, the other teams at the school, and eventually with his own skill, then he finally actually starts facing the buggers. Throughout the book the source of conflict changes repeatedly. The book is good because there is interesting conflict the whole way through, the characters develop, and because the details of the story are engaging. The main villain is vague, and nebulous in the exact same way the reapers are. You can say that the story has been done a million times before, if you want to get it as generic as possible you can just say its a special kid who is trained from childhood to fight an impossible and unknowable enemy. But you can do this with any story ever conceived. System shock= man creates machine, machine rebels, man has to fight machine. That one line description sounds pretty bad, but the characterization, the details of the plot make it a compelling story. As for mass effect 2, I think it does has a good story, dispute having a pretty weak main villain. The reason the story is good is because the characters are distinct, and they evolve as the game progresses. There is a huge amount of details to get lost in, the history of the galaxy, the different races, all the different missions. The samara and jacob loyalty missions comes to mind as being particularity awesome. Now you can make them sound lame by saying one is a generic kid is evil, parent must punish, and the other is a son finds out father is a monster, but that really doesn't do them justice, the same way saying the lord of the rings is about some dude that walks really far then gets his finger bitten off. You missed my entire point in that all of the conflict in Mass Effect comes from the Reapers (which is actually really disappointing to people like me that were anticipating ME to be some kind of grand, epic space opera - you know, like they advertised it). Thus, the main drama of the three-game mytharc is the Reapers. Hence the conflict of the main story is weak, because the Reapers themselves have practically zero characterization. I didn't miss the point, I disagreed with it. Part of the disagreement is you are thinking of Mass Effect the trilogy as a whole, and I'm thinking of Mass Effect 2. The problem with thinking about the trilogy is that we don't have 1/3 of it yet. I REALLY hope they characterize the reapers more in the third game, and flesh them out more, and I think the thrid game is the place to do it. In the first game they introduce everything to you, the universe, the races, the tech, the enemy, and your character. The second game is about seeing that your actions from the first game really did absolutely nothing, no one believes you other then Cerberus, and you ally yourself with someone who was an enemy, and is very morally dubious because they are the only help you can get. Its about building your team and fleshing out their characters. All this is setting the last game up to be a massive final conflict with the reapers. I actually agree that the reapers are currently characterized very poorly, and that so far they make a rather weak main villain. They are currently a nebulous, unknowable threat, but I can name plenty of other stories, especially multi-part stories where this is the case. Enders Game, lord of the rings, The Posleen War series by John Ringo. In all of these the enemy starts out as something big and mysterious and eventually gets more fleshed out and characterized. How I define a good story is -Where the characters interesting and did they develop -Did stuff happen - Has the status quo changed from the beginning Now Im not saying ME2 has the best story of any game ever, I just think its better then you give it credit for. As for your disappointment about it being a grand space opera, As Hartwell and Cramer note, since then, space opera means "colorful, dramatic, large-scale science fiction adventure, competently and sometimes beautifully written, usually focused on a sympathetic, heroic central character and plot action, and usually set in the relatively distant future, or on planets in faraway space.[1] It often deals with war, piracy, military virtues and very large-scale action, with large stakes." you are flying through space fighting on lots of different planets, meeting and having sex with various alien species, dealing with the devil, dealing with interstellar politics, and fighting gigantic space robots that will destroy all life if you do not win, How much more space opera can you get. | ||
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Chro
United States240 Posts
The guy did make a robot outta wood though, so gotta give credit where credit is due. | ||
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Kamille
Monaco1035 Posts
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StimCraft
United States144 Posts
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StimCraft
United States144 Posts
On October 30 2010 04:21 Esper[mb] wrote: #1 final fantasy 7 #2 Chrono trigger #3 Half-life pretty solid line-up. On October 30 2010 04:47 Kamille wrote: FFT is probably the best in terms of intrigue. I'm disappointed FFIX didn't even get a mention. While FFIX is the 2nd best in the FF series (7 til now), it is entirely too random and uses too many superficial and ('Final Fantasy-common') literary ploys. It's literally FF7+FFT. Come on Square...FF9 does have the best depth in terms of overall gameplay imo (card game, chocobo side quests, 'openness,' etc.) FF series Story FF7>FF8>FFT>FF10>FF9 (very close and slightly skewed bc of how FF7+FFT=FF9, don't do that square. ff9 is probably higher if you dont think about the others, but i cant.) 'Openness' FF9>FF7>FFT>=FF10>FF8 Battle FFT>FF7>FF9>FF10>FF8 'Epicness' FF7>FF9>FF10>FF8>FFT (this one was hard. for 9 being 2nd, think of the tree and expansiveness of coalition.) 1st = 5 2nd = 4 3rd = 3 4th = 2 5th = 1pt Overall 'experience' FF7 (5+4+4+5)=18 FF9 (1+5+3+4)=13 FFT (3+3+5+1)=12 FF10 (2+2+2+3)=9 FF8 (4+1+1+2)=8 ff8/ff10 fans will hate, but you obviously havent played the others. the ff7 fans luck out bc it's the best anyway, regardless of their 'close-minded nostalga.' Note: Square has absorbed too many companies and become pretty Nintendo-ish lol | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On October 30 2010 04:32 NukeTheBunnys wrote: I didn't miss the point, I disagreed with it. Part of the disagreement is you are thinking of Mass Effect the trilogy as a whole, and I'm thinking of Mass Effect 2. The problem with thinking about the trilogy is that we don't have 1/3 of it yet. I REALLY hope they characterize the reapers more in the third game, and flesh them out more, and I think the thrid game is the place to do it. In the first game they introduce everything to you, the universe, the races, the tech, the enemy, and your character. The second game is about seeing that your actions from the first game really did absolutely nothing, no one believes you other then Cerberus, and you ally yourself with someone who was an enemy, and is very morally dubious because they are the only help you can get. Its about building your team and fleshing out their characters. All this is setting the last game up to be a massive final conflict with the reapers. I actually agree that the reapers are currently characterized very poorly, and that so far they make a rather weak main villain. They are currently a nebulous, unknowable threat, but I can name plenty of other stories, especially multi-part stories where this is the case. Enders Game, lord of the rings, The Posleen War series by John Ringo. In all of these the enemy starts out as something big and mysterious and eventually gets more fleshed out and characterized. How I define a good story is -Where the characters interesting and did they develop -Did stuff happen - Has the status quo changed from the beginning Now Im not saying ME2 has the best story of any game ever, I just think its better then you give it credit for. As for your disappointment about it being a grand space opera, you are flying through space fighting on lots of different planets, meeting and having sex with various alien species, dealing with the devil, dealing with interstellar politics, and fighting gigantic space robots that will destroy all life if you do not win, How much more space opera can you get. You don't have to explain the game to me, I played it as well. And it's interesting that you would want to narrow the breadth of the discussion to ME2, when a huge number of even hardcore ME fans agree that ME2 was absolute trash even when not compared to ME1. The complaints are numerous - they got rid of the exploratory and RPG elements that added quite a bit of immersion and replaced it with what was essentially a rail shooter (good move in my opinion though), the main reveal was awful, the plot was very linear and essentially plateaued less than a third of the way through, it failed to meet all of the expectations after ME1, etc. There's some like, 6-video long Let's Play series on youtube that goes through the entire game and step by step explains every fault in the storytelling and writing. I'd go into more detail but I've been in too many 300-page debates on the Bioware Social site to care any further. By the way, the second part of a trilogy is typically when you characterize the antagonist as well as set up the foundation for the resolution. ME2's plot was so insignificant and insular it might as well be an expansion to ME1. Anyways, if you really enjoy the games, then good for you, and I hope you really enjoy ME3 as well, I personally expect it to be quite amazing. But the ME games are far from the highest tier of video game writing, or even for Bioware writing, and "I think it is a really good story" is not a valid literary defense. I think people just get blown away by the presentation (which is also overrated in my opinion) and fancy aesthetics and confuse that for good exposition. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
#1 Xenogears - mindfuck #2 FF 7 - One of main character dies? WTF??? #3 Chrono Trigger - 16 endings. (i think) | ||
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Xadar
497 Posts
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Wineandbread
United States2065 Posts
Xenogears def. is up there on my top story-based games. I do very much like the story they had in SC and WC3 as well. God damn I need to get off the rhythm games. I'm reading jinorazi's post as I'm typing this and noted his reason for FF7. You know, more games should do this (and not bring them back in silly ways). Maybe I just haven't really played enough games but I don't see it / hear it happen very often. I think that my appreciation for an anime series like TTGL is hugely boosted because of such an interesting twist (that's not TOO spoiler right? w/e) | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
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Adaptation
Canada427 Posts
In terms of pure writing, i gotta say portal was unbelievably funny and well done. | ||
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