[1.1] Team Liquid Minecraft Server - Page 201
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
My personal story... when I first got Minecraft I spend days straight farming and building this awesome house. I was new and didn't really understand how to make weapons so I had an island that I pretty much stayed on all night (where my house was) and only ventured to land during the day. Eventually I got some iron and made a track across the water to a second, larger island... which I dug out to make a mine I could use at night without fear of monsters. That was when I realized that I was very quickly becomming bored. I had my house... I had a mine... but what was the point of mining? I didn't really feel compelled to build a giant city by myself for no reason. Enter multiplayer. Multiplayer was the best thing ever when it first came out. Finally I could build large towns with other people! But this, too, became dull rather quickly. After building the town, what next? Monsters were so weak they didn't even matter anymore. PvP was, is, and will likely forever be terrible leaving the only option available... keep building. What most people don't realize is that when they were a kid and played with legos it wasn't fun to just constantly build things. You had cars, roads, boats, trains, planes, etc. Your structures were static but it was fun because you could create a living, breathing city. That's simply not the case with Minecraft. Everything is inanimate and even if you were to build a car or a plane you can't do anything with them. Legos would've been pretty damn boring, too, if all you could do was look at them once you were done. Compare Minecraft to a similar game like Terraria. In Terraria you spend your time mining and building just like in Minecraft. But the monsters are actually a challenge and boss fights keep you interested in between builds. I don't know exactly what Minecraft needs but I do know that progress is far too slow on the game. Looking at Minecraft now and Minecraft in alpha two years ago... nothing at all has really changed. There have been a few new blocks added, a few mobs, a really poorly designed boss fight that was quite honestly a complete waste of resources, an equally terrible new world (two, actually, as the Nether was a really stupid idea as well - and ironically the one good world idea, skylands, was scrapped), and some features ported in from plugins (powered rails, pistons, dispensers). There hasn't been a single decent feature added in two years that wasn't already available via plugins. I can't imagine more than five hours a week has been spent working on Minecraft since it hit beta and it really shows. Where are lanterns? Hang gliders? All the other decent features that have been promised for years and are instead pushed to the backburner for things like cake and baby animals? We've had about 4,500 unique players on this server since I started it a few years ago. The average playtime for someone is about one day - or just enough time for them to build a house, then disappear. There are certainly some die hard players who love building but the overwhelming majority simply get bored after they complete their initial home. That was a problem I was hoping to rectify with this new server before Bukkit decided "LOL NOPE WE ARE GONNA SCREW YOU OVER LOLZ". In short, you guys have likely noticed that in the entire time I've been running this server I have never actually played myself. This is because - even though I really, really enjoy map/terrain design - I get burnt out simply building the spawn towns and whatnot and end up having zero interest actually playing. I try really, really hard to play but I simply can't bring myself to do it because there is absolutely zero challenge. This game has been in decline for quite a while now... daily sales figures during alpha were 30k+ per day, and for the last year that number has been sitting around 6-8k per day. Most servers have closed up shop and the only ones that tend to be left are heavily themed ones like RPG or themed-build servers. Even those are a fraction of what they used to be. Anyway, I feel the glory days are long since gone and as such the people playing right now tend to be those die hard, close knit players. Unfortunately this is a small group, so you won't see 50+ on the server like it used to be. I think we've peaked at like 15 this time around. I just woke up and felt like ranting. Also, I'm considering taking the server down until all of this Bukkit stuff gets worked out. There are only a couple people per day logging in and I'd personally rather have the CPU resources put towards the new world but I don't know. | ||
rabidch
United States20287 Posts
On March 13 2012 22:07 Serejai wrote: Minecraft is just a boring game in general. Like, you first get it and it's the coolest thing ever. But it's so repetative and there's really no content so after you finish making your awesome house you really lose interest fast. My personal story... when I first got Minecraft I spend days straight farming and building this awesome house. I was new and didn't really understand how to make weapons so I had an island that I pretty much stayed on all night (where my house was) and only ventured to land during the day. Eventually I got some iron and made a track across the water to a second, larger island... which I dug out to make a mine I could use at night without fear of monsters. That was when I realized that I was very quickly becomming bored. I had my house... I had a mine... but what was the point of mining? I didn't really feel compelled to build a giant city by myself for no reason. Enter multiplayer. Multiplayer was the best thing ever when it first came out. Finally I could build large towns with other people! But this, too, became dull rather quickly. After building the town, what next? Monsters were so weak they didn't even matter anymore. PvP was, is, and will likely forever be terrible leaving the only option available... keep building. What most people don't realize is that when they were a kid and played with legos it wasn't fun to just constantly build things. You had cars, roads, boats, trains, planes, etc. Your structures were static but it was fun because you could create a living, breathing city. That's simply not the case with Minecraft. Everything is inanimate and even if you were to build a car or a plane you can't do anything with them. Legos would've been pretty damn boring, too, if all you could do was look at them once you were done. Compare Minecraft to a similar game like Terraria. In Terraria you spend your time mining and building just like in Minecraft. But the monsters are actually a challenge and boss fights keep you interested in between builds. I don't know exactly what Minecraft needs but I do know that progress is far too slow on the game. Looking at Minecraft now and Minecraft in alpha two years ago... nothing at all has really changed. There have been a few new blocks added, a few mobs, a really poorly designed boss fight that was quite honestly a complete waste of resources, an equally terrible new world (two, actually, as the Nether was a really stupid idea as well - and ironically the one good world idea, skylands, was scrapped), and some features ported in from plugins (powered rails, pistons, dispensers). There hasn't been a single decent feature added in two years that wasn't already available via plugins. I can't imagine more than five hours a week has been spent working on Minecraft since it hit beta and it really shows. Where are lanterns? Hang gliders? All the other decent features that have been promised for years and are instead pushed to the backburner for things like cake and baby animals? We've had about 4,500 unique players on this server since I started it a few years ago. The average playtime for someone is about one day - or just enough time for them to build a house, then disappear. There are certainly some die hard players who love building but the overwhelming majority simply get bored after they complete their initial home. That was a problem I was hoping to rectify with this new server before Bukkit decided "LOL NOPE WE ARE GONNA SCREW YOU OVER LOLZ". In short, you guys have likely noticed that in the entire time I've been running this server I have never actually played myself. This is because - even though I really, really enjoy map/terrain design - I get burnt out simply building the spawn towns and whatnot and end up having zero interest actually playing. I try really, really hard to play but I simply can't bring myself to do it because there is absolutely zero challenge. This game has been in decline for quite a while now... daily sales figures during alpha were 30k+ per day, and for the last year that number has been sitting around 6-8k per day. Most servers have closed up shop and the only ones that tend to be left are heavily themed ones like RPG or themed-build servers. Even those are a fraction of what they used to be. Anyway, I feel the glory days are long since gone and as such the people playing right now tend to be those die hard, close knit players. Unfortunately this is a small group, so you won't see 50+ on the server like it used to be. I think we've peaked at like 15 this time around. I just woke up and felt like ranting. Also, I'm considering taking the server down until all of this Bukkit stuff gets worked out. There are only a couple people per day logging in and I'd personally rather have the CPU resources put towards the new world but I don't know. Minecraft's problem is that it is too limited for a sandbox (not enough features) and yet at the same time too limited as an RPG/Survival game (again, not enough things), and the developers dont seem to give a crap about bettering these core issues, not to mention that the 3d engine itself is meh as well. Just this last patch, finally the height limit was increased? | ||
Serejai
6007 Posts
I have no idea what they spend their time doing at the office but it's certainly not working on the game in ways they should be. My guess is they've all basically moved on to this new Scrolls game or whatever and Minecraft is just managed by a skeleton crew consisting of Jeb and the AI guy (who both likely work on Scrolls as well). As you said it's a really limited sandbox and also a really limited "game". They keep flip flopping between features... add some sandbox here, some RPG there. At this rate the game would be great in ten years, but they really need to give it an identity first and THEN start adding to it. Either pick sandbox or RPG and focus on that until it's complete. Here is a list of features Notch has confirmed will be in the game - some as long as two years ago - and are still nowhere to be seen (pulled from wiki): Sponges Cocoa Bean Trees Skylands/Sky Dimension Capture the Flag Mounting/Controlling Mobs Minecarts as lava boats The ability to write in books Custom Paintings Stereoscopic and/or Green/Magenta 3D More Powerful Powered Minecarts Audio Loops Friends list Multithreading Limited maps Video support Special biomes Dual-wielding Portable Fireplaces/Campfires Display cases/racks The ability to name Chests Zipline Mod Red Dragon And that's missing a few as well. I think the big issue is that he seems to plan all of this stuff but never follows through with it... or simply takes overly long. Remember the Adventure Update? He had to split that into two parts because he bit off more than he could chew. Ditto on the Boo Update (in which the second part, a year and a half later, still hasn't happened). | ||
r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
For me, personally, Minecrafting always comes in bursts. e.g. I think I haven't shown up on the server except for pickup advice (lolol) in the last two weeks at all but once I'm in the mood I'll probably powergame for a week straight again. Still so much stuff unfinished. =D HOWEVER: I just woke up and felt like ranting. Also, I'm considering taking the server down until all of this Bukkit stuff gets worked out. There are only a couple people per day logging in and I'd personally rather have the CPU resources put towards the new world but I don't know. I wouldn't be happy at all if you decided to do that because I believe the few people who log and myself are still having lots of fun on there. Also I think a lot of people are still not at the "Fuck yes, I'm done"-stage of their project so they can finally brag about it and feel awesome. However, I understand that this is a damn selfish view so I have exactly one request: If, IF, IF you one day decide to take the entire server down please for the love of god make sure we can download the map(s) somewhere. I believe that everyone who put work and heart into making this server a cool and awesome looking place deserves that much respect back from you. PS: <3 u for the server anyway. PPS: Probably the only thing I'm annoyed as to how you run the show is that you never show up, but you kinda explained the reasoning behind it. But, yeah, from day 1 it was sad to see that you were demotivated as hell since the entire rpg stuff went down the drain. =/ | ||
Serejai
6007 Posts
It's extremely frustrating to see hundreds of hours of work become useless overnight. I also haven't been very involved with my computer in general, though. Haven't been watching SC2/DOTA 2 anymore, haven't really been playing any games, etc. I think I'm just bored of games in general at the moment. | ||
MisterD
Germany1338 Posts
As for minecraft, i feel fairly similarly. It's just millions and millions of dead worlds. As a developer myself i absolutely know of these productivity pits you can fall into, like mojang has by now. I'm not yet in the field long enough to know how much these pits are actually required to maintain a certain output quality, but i and a few university buddies have dropped into a very similar pit with a software we are writing. A temporary part of this is of course, that you design your software to some degree of abstraction, and then reach the edges of that. At that point your productivity takes a huge hit because you suddenly have to clean up and abstract half your codebase further with everything you put into it. That can however resolve itself after you have gone over most stuff and increased the abstraction level to suffice for the time forth. But, additionally, there might just be a one way hole, where when your software grows large enough, the complexity of quality control just grows so enormously, that your productivity just dies with it. i refuse to believe, that this is one way so far, but i'm at a lack of experience here. Reform and reworking of quality assurance measures and processes may be able to solve this issue, but i haven't seen or done myself something like that yet. So maybe this slowness of development is a result of notch's early releases, breaking multiplayer features with every change he put public. By increasing quality assurance to keep these bugs out of releases, the development speed might just have largely died. And of course mojang developing 4+ games now (minecraft, scrolls, cobalt, "minicraft"? and whatever else kind of weird ideas notch has come up with) simultaneously, while still only consisting of less 3 or so actual programmers? doesn't help either. | ||
Aixler
Netherlands946 Posts
That's what got me to play on this server in the first place, the plans for rpg, doing dungeons together with new enemies etc. And I'm sure that as soon as that is finally up and working, people will come back and play more. And if other events would be implemented, like the several types of pvp arenas and pve challenges, there is a reason to play more and hang out on the server with others. Basically, most of the features promised on the main page aren't implemented, once they are, the server should become active again. I for one am really looking forward to it, after all the hard work put into them. And on a small side note, seeing admins flying around, importing and building with creative mode, on what I thought was supposed to be a 'legit' server really takes away some of the magic. | ||
Melancholia
United States717 Posts
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
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julianto
2292 Posts
Can a mod please restore the contents? The most important things were the diamonds, iron, wool, and dirt. Dirt. edit: Oh, and bone meal so I can make more tools. | ||
Serejai
6007 Posts
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
which is probably why I can't find diamonds. (then again I should be focusing on sc2... ) | ||
actionbastrd
Congo598 Posts
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missefficiency
Germany105 Posts
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julianto
2292 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
What happened to "1-3 days"? | ||
julianto
2292 Posts
On March 22 2012 03:55 r.Evo wrote: Waitwhat. What happened to "1-3 days"? What he didn't mention was a margin of error of a week. | ||
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