EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 74
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
1) You want something you're tapping your creatures for to win you the game. Masticore requires an ongoing mana dump in order to be effective, which means you're not attacking or you're not holding countermagic. Without a 6 drop closer, you're very weak to theirs. 2) The discard upkeep is not irrelevant in a deck that plays counterspells. I may not want to have to discard every turn. 3) Does not play well with Phantasmal Image. Getting another 4/4 with an upkeep cost pales in comparison to getting a 6/6 deathtouch lifelinker with value even if he dies. Benefits: 1) Kills planeswalkers (especially the new ones) dead with his 4 damage ability. 2) Recurring removal in a removal-light deck. 3) Regenerates I'm inclined to say he's not worth it, especially compared to Wurmcoil. I'd also maindeck either Azure or Treasure Mages if you're taking out the Dragons. I hate the Dragons and almost never cast them, but they do make the deck not die immediately to Inkmoth Nexus (which it does...hard) or Skaab Ruinator (which I haven't played against yet) considering nothing else can deal with fliers. The white splash is a novel idea, there always seem to be a few open slots in the deck that I'm playing that I have to jam filler in. I wouldn't object to an O-Ring in the maindeck either as a last resort against Inkmoth/Ruinator/other bomb. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
Ruinator: O-rings (I think) or maybe fiend hunters (although the 2 white might be prohibitive) | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
I'm still not sure how I feel about Masticore vs Wurmcoil. I'm definitely more comfortable running multiples of the Masticore because they're easier to cast and they can be pitched to each other, whereas Wurmcoil is something I would never want to run more than 2 of, or maybe 1 and 1 Treasure Mage. It's an awkward slot in the deck because you want a nice finisher, but you don't want something that's too reliant on drawing Architect. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 03 2011 09:54 Cel.erity wrote: Well Tempered Steel has plenty of other fliers, so I don't see why Inkmoth Nexus specifically is a problem. O-Ring doesn't kill it anyway, you'd rather O-Ring the Steel. If you get a Wurmcoil out, you can out-lifelink most other fliers (especially if you have an image or 2), you can't lifelink out an Inkmoth Nexus. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Killing PW isn't a big deal in this case simply because all of the PWs would have interacted with you already, I can't see Lily at 4 being that big of a deal outside of Solar Flare decks in which case you are more likely staring down a Day next turn anyways or something like a Titan/Wurmcoil anyways, so I don't see it matters. Koth at 4 maybe a bigger deal. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On October 02 2011 08:15 Judicator wrote: You're going to try to run the old UW control shell that just blows? UW control is like dead dead right now. ISD gave it nothing unique and it lost Colonnade. There's nothing to discuss. That's why you see Heroes in all the UW decks or they just go straight aggro. Trying to compete against UB or against some UBW builds in a control setting is pointless. They have better everything across the board. I can't agree with this. Although I think Unburial Rites is probably the strongest way to build control right now, straight U/W is a fair amount stronger than straight U/B. If you're playing U/B you're either playing Tezzeret, which is inconsistent, or just straight control which trades Day/Gideon/ORing for BSZ/Lilliana/Doom Blade. It does gain Forbidden Alchemy, but overall those white cards are better, and white has access to MUCH better hate cards including Revoke and Timely Reinforcements, and the new graveyard removal spell. White is just in a much better place right now. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On October 03 2011 13:49 Cel.erity wrote: I can't agree with this. Although I think Unburial Rites is probably the strongest way to build control right now, straight U/W is a fair amount stronger than straight U/B. If you're playing U/B you're either playing Tezzeret, which is inconsistent, or just straight control which trades Day/Gideon/ORing for BSZ/Lilliana/Doom Blade. It does gain Forbidden Alchemy, but overall those white cards are better, and white has access to MUCH better hate cards including Revoke and Timely Reinforcements, and the new graveyard removal spell. White is just in a much better place right now. I can not tell you how happy I am to have revoke. It's the tits. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
-Geth's verdict -Tribute to hunger -Liliana of the veil Black is looking pretty good right now when you can just throw in BSZ and maybe even life's finale. If you drop a life's finale proceed to gut their deck with surgical extractions. If you are playing U/B control just throw in snapcasters forbiden alchemy think twice and anything else you can think of. Snapcasters alone means you can have 16 edict effects going on. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On October 03 2011 15:15 dignity wrote: With the current standard you have 3 edict effects in black. -Geth's verdict -Tribute to hunger -Liliana of the veil Black is looking pretty good right now when you can just throw in BSZ and maybe even life's finale. If you drop a life's finale proceed to gut their deck with surgical extractions. If you are playing U/B control just throw in snapcasters forbiden alchemy think twice and anything else you can think of. Snapcasters alone means you can have 16 edict effects going on. Why would you ever play Geth's Verdict in any deck? Spot removal is just better. Tribute at least gains life, but I don't think any deck would want to run 4, let alone 8. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Life's Finale is way too expensive to ever see play. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
On October 03 2011 15:35 Cel.erity wrote: Why would you ever play Geth's Verdict in any deck? Spot removal is just better. Tribute at least gains life, but I don't think any deck would want to run 4, let alone 8. One word. Hexproof. Also, most decks that are not red deck wins do not have very many creatures out. You are mainly stalling until turn 4 anyways where decks that are curving would get out on average 4 creatures, at which point you are trading a card for a card to live. Also, geth's verdict is a 2 cost while tribute is 3. It is also more aggressive since they lose a life instead of you gaining life. Also, by your logic why would anyone run liliana of the veil when spot removal does the same thing? If anything liliana of the veil is slower than geth's verdict. I would agree that life's finale is overcosted and will likely not see competitive play though but its not totally unusable. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 03 2011 21:10 dignity wrote: One word. Hexproof. Also, most decks that are not red deck wins do not have very many creatures out. You are mainly stalling until turn 4 anyways where decks that are curving would get out on average 4 creatures, at which point you are trading a card for a card to live. Also, geth's verdict is a 2 cost while tribute is 3. It is also more aggressive since they lose a life instead of you gaining life. Also, by your logic why would anyone run liliana of the veil when spot removal does the same thing? If anything liliana of the veil is slower than geth's verdict. I would agree that life's finale is overcosted and will likely not see competitive play though but its not totally unusable. Liliana can take care of Geist, even if you're on the draw. Even then, I'd sideboard in BSZ over a Geth's Verdict because for 1 more mana it sweeps unboosted humans (including stalker), for 2 more mana it kills Geist and boosted humans (including Mirran Crusader). Now on to the bolded: Are you fucking kidding me? Are you unaware that she is a planeswalker? Nevermind that, are you aware that she also has 2 other abilities that are extremely relevant? You can't compare Liliana to Doom Blade in any sense at any time. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
In a vacuum, both cards are extremely similar and comparable, just like how spot removal can be compared to an edict effect. Taken out of this vacuum, Liliana is obviously superior because we have something called a sun titan. Spot removal is good, but edict effects are also very good and are not automatically inferior. While we are on the topic of recurring effects, geths verdict can be recurred using snapcaster (what can't he do) which is much cheaper than a sun titan, so even that is comparable. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 03 2011 22:25 dignity wrote: Liliana is used mainly for her edict ability. The discard ability is relatively weak. The comparison is that you would be using her for the edict, which is indeed comparable to geth's verdict. Realistically you will never get off her ultimate and she will get sniped after one use of her -2. At maximum you will get 2 edicts out of her, over 3 turns. In a vacuum, both cards are extremely similar and comparable, just like how spot removal can be compared to an edict effect. Taken out of this vacuum, Liliana is obviously superior because we have something called a sun titan. Spot removal is good, but edict effects are also very good and are not automatically inferior. While we are on the topic of recurring effects, geths verdict can be recurred using snapcaster (what can't he do) which is much cheaper than a sun titan, so even that is comparable. In a vacuum, Liliana can edict more than once as opposed to verdict which is 1 use only. Not only that, she can also force discard which causes aggro deck to go into topdeck mode faster and allows you to stock your graveyard. If your opponent does not answer her, she wins you the game. That is how she works in a vacuum. It can't be compared at all to Geth's Verdict. Being brought back by Sun Titan is just gravy. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
Discarding is not as bad as you make it sound to be when the aggro deck happens to have a lavamancers in standard. Also, against an aggro deck especially Liliana will not live past the priority ability. You are better off playing BSZ against aggro anyways so saying Liliana's discard effect is good against aggro decks is just moot. | ||
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