|
On September 28 2011 09:00 deth2munkies wrote:Happy Birthday Cel  Also, Grand Abolisher and Elite Inquisitor seem like good sideboard cards for a puresteel deck, but I'm thinking that Puresteel is going to be replacing Caw-blade in the U/W control shell. 4 Puresteels, 4 Mentors, and 4 Invisible Stalkers are probably the only non-living weapon creatures that'll be played in the maindeck, all the rest will be equipment, card draw, and countermagic. I see that, Tempered Steel, Birthing Pod, and U/B control being the dominant archetypes, with mono-white humans, reanimator, and werewolves being tier 2 with everything else being flat out worse. It's somewhat of a shame that Innistrad dealt a deathblow to mono-red and any sort of combo based strategy. EDIT: Oh, one thing I thought about, Living Weapon combines well with Morbid and "dies" creatures (like Unruly Mob and the like, although I'm not suggesting Mob is playable), because technically the token dies when you equip it. Free triggers with puresteel ftw.
Thanks!
I think you underestimate mono-R a little bit. Brimstone Volley and Stromkirk Noble are pretty decent, and the format as a whole is slower so it's not as important that red has been neutered. Creature control strategies are going to be so prevalent that there is a spot in the metagame for burn; I think the main obstacle is Timely Reinforcements but that existed already. It's about as good as it was before, a tier 2 deck that will be popular among casual/poor players.
|
On September 28 2011 07:24 DEN1ED wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 06:33 Judicator wrote:
Personally I think it's overvalued because of that reason and players have no idea how to play around a 3 mana 2/1 flier that returns itself in limited. . Block it with a 1/1 spirit? It's just doesn't do enough. 3 is a lot of mana for a 2/1 and then if you are keeping up 1 mana for it you are just going to get destroyed by much more efficient creatures. Sure it could maybe be a late game card in control but there are MANY other cards I would rather play as a finisher.
? That's assuming you are in White. I am saying that some decks just flat out can't beat it when the flyer is coming out of a monoblue aggro deck or some kind of UW flyers. It's not as good as some people think it is, but it's not a bad card either. Flying to me from this past weekend just seems particularly strong in some match ups.
Edit:
Puresteel has some terrible match ups, it's not consistent enough against Pod. And siding in Timely alone is not enough against Mono-Red and being on the draw is like murder.
|
What do you guys think about Blue Sun's Zenith in the upcoming metagame for some U/B or U/W Draw-Go deck lists . It can be inefficient and I'm not sure I love losing it to Forbidden Alchemy, but it can be so rewarding with your open mana.
Thinking of shoving one or two into a deck. Any thoughts?
|
From the minimal testing I've done on MWS, Mono-W just isn't consistent enough vs everyone and their mother trying to play reanimator. Adding green gave me access to Beast Within as well as lords to make human tribal, which put out a pretty nice clock. Plus 2 mana alpha strike spells outside gideon are pretty good too.
My friend dave tested a UW Draw Go with WSZ and Mindshrieker with swords as a Blade Replacement and it seems to be pretty good. Beats RDW and my deck all day 
|
On September 28 2011 13:51 slyboogie wrote:
What do you guys think about Blue Sun's Zenith in the upcoming metagame for some U/B or U/W Draw-Go deck lists . It can be inefficient and I'm not sure I love losing it to Forbidden Alchemy, but it can be so rewarding with your open mana.
Thinking of shoving one or two into a deck. Any thoughts?
I've been trying out USZ out of the sideboard where I used to have Jace's Ingenuity and it's nice I guesssssssss
worst case is you flash it back with Snapcaster Mage!!
|
Another use of mindshrieker might be to actually go into combo myr decks to finish opponents by way of infinite mill as an alternate solution to infinite fireball or infinite blue sun's zenith. With all the clone cards in this new standard it would be a lot more consistant (only need 1 myr galvanizer to clone as opposed to 2).
Edit: The only time blue sun would be in the graveyard is if it did not resolve.
|
It can end up in the yard from Forbidden Alchemy or something weird like...Liliana, I guess. It's not a huge deal but it could happen.
I also totally forgot about Snapcaster Mage. Oh Snapcaster Mage, what CAN'T you do? Still, 5 mana (4U!!!) before the X? I dunno.
|
Ya, I don't think USZ makes it into my UB Draw-Go list. There just seems to be many situations where I don't want to see it (like pitching it to Forbidden Alchemy, as mentioned).
|
I think I'll be running U/B Draw-Go in Standard. Something like this. I'm not a huge fan of Ponder but it can really do a lot for your draw consistency, so I'm running two. Three Despises are too many, I know, I know. I'd like to shove two Solemn's in there but I'm not sure where to cut.
|
On September 29 2011 08:39 slyboogie wrote:I think I'll be running U/B Draw-Go in Standard. Something like this. I'm not a huge fan of Ponder but it can really do a lot for your draw consistency, so I'm running two. Three Despises are too many, I know, I know. I'd like to shove two Solemn's in there but I'm not sure where to cut.
Deck needs more Lantern Spirits.
But seriously, when deckbuilding, you should try to avoid having too many 2-ofs. 2 is like the worst number to use for a card, it shows indecisiveness in deckbuilding, like you can't decide what cards are best. It's only really excusable if you have a lot of search, Brainstorms/fetches etc. and most of the 2-ofs in your deck are not particularly powerful. Like in the case of making Doom Blade/GftT a 2/2 split, you should instead just decide which one is better in the metagame and run 4 of it.
|
On September 29 2011 10:25 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 08:39 slyboogie wrote:I think I'll be running U/B Draw-Go in Standard. Something like this. I'm not a huge fan of Ponder but it can really do a lot for your draw consistency, so I'm running two. Three Despises are too many, I know, I know. I'd like to shove two Solemn's in there but I'm not sure where to cut. Deck needs more Lantern Spirits. But seriously, when deckbuilding, you should try to avoid having too many 2-ofs. 2 is like the worst number to use for a card, it shows indecisiveness in deckbuilding, like you can't decide what cards are best. It's only really excusable if you have a lot of search, Brainstorms/fetches etc. and most of the 2-ofs in your deck are not particularly powerful. Like in the case of making Doom Blade/GftT a 2/2 split, you should instead just decide which one is better in the metagame and run 4 of it.
I have 4 GfTT in my tentative list. The only deck it really sucks against is Tempered Steel, but honestly, that matchup is one of those that you'd be hard pressed to win against a decent draw G1 anyway, but can easily be hated out.
I hear it's going to be the FNM promo for October (on MTGsalvation), which means acquiring a playset shouldn't be too difficult.
Also, I'm a noob deckbuilder, but this is how my thought process goes:
1 of - I can tutor for this, or I only need it in rare situations.
2 of - It's a finisher I don't want in my opening hand or in multiples.
3 of - I want it as quickly as possible, but not in multiples.
4 of - I would be happy to have 2 of these the majority of the time.
|
I deck build 1 of 2 ways.
Netdeck, and then modified netdecking. A good rule of thumb is to stick with as many 4 ofs as you can. The only real exception to the rule is counter spells for me. There's a math post about the difference between 2/3/4 ofs but It eludes me at the moment. I think it was on Starcity, but I don't recall. If I find it I'll copy it over for here.
|
On September 28 2011 14:38 MCMcEmcee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 13:51 slyboogie wrote:
What do you guys think about Blue Sun's Zenith in the upcoming metagame for some U/B or U/W Draw-Go deck lists . It can be inefficient and I'm not sure I love losing it to Forbidden Alchemy, but it can be so rewarding with your open mana.
Thinking of shoving one or two into a deck. Any thoughts? I've been trying out USZ out of the sideboard where I used to have Jace's Ingenuity and it's nice I guesssssssss worst case is you flash it back with Snapcaster Mage!!
USZ never hits the graveyard, it gets shuffled back into your library
|
On September 29 2011 10:25 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 08:39 slyboogie wrote:I think I'll be running U/B Draw-Go in Standard. Something like this. I'm not a huge fan of Ponder but it can really do a lot for your draw consistency, so I'm running two. Three Despises are too many, I know, I know. I'd like to shove two Solemn's in there but I'm not sure where to cut. Deck needs more Lantern Spirits. But seriously, when deckbuilding, you should try to avoid having too many 2-ofs. 2 is like the worst number to use for a card, it shows indecisiveness in deckbuilding, like you can't decide what cards are best. It's only really excusable if you have a lot of search, Brainstorms/fetches etc. and most of the 2-ofs in your deck are not particularly powerful. Like in the case of making Doom Blade/GftT a 2/2 split, you should instead just decide which one is better in the metagame and run 4 of it.
First of all, why you bashing sweet tech?
The 2 GftT and 2 Doomblades are just there to be there. Suffice it to say, I will run 4 black removal spells. And I generally agree with you. But I think 2 Consecrated Sphinx and 2 BSZ are fine, right? Two Lilianas and two Ponders is weird though, and it was indecisive.
EDIT: USZ can be countered or pitched by Forbidden Alchemy. Rare but it can happen.
|
dunno i think Grave Titan is better early on in the format than Sphinx. It kills them faster, doesn't die to Liliana/Dismember/Doom Blade even if it's the only creature you played, impacts the board immediately even if the GftT it.
Also a better target to reanimate!
I mean I love me a Consecrated Sphinx but if I was playing UB I would rather run Grave Titan right now.
|
I don't see a problem with running a 2/2 split of doom blade and go for the throat. 95% of the time they are going to be the same but being able to kill grave titan and spellskite MD seems like a good idea. Sure, one of them might be better 55% of the time but I think they are so close that the flexibility makes up for it.
|
On September 28 2011 09:00 deth2munkies wrote:Happy Birthday Cel Also, Grand Abolisher and Elite Inquisitor seem like good sideboard cards for a puresteel deck, but I'm thinking that Puresteel is going to be replacing Caw-blade in the U/W control shell. 4 Puresteels, 4 Mentors, and 4 Invisible Stalkers are probably the only non-living weapon creatures that'll be played in the maindeck, all the rest will be equipment, card draw, and countermagic. I see that, Tempered Steel, Birthing Pod, and U/B control being the dominant archetypes, with mono-white humans, reanimator, and werewolves being tier 2 with everything else being flat out worse. It's somewhat of a shame that Innistrad dealt a deathblow to mono-red and any sort of combo based strategy. EDIT: Oh, one thing I thought about, Living Weapon combines well with Morbid and "dies" creatures (like Unruly Mob and the like, although I'm not suggesting Mob is playable), because technically the token dies when you equip it. Free triggers with puresteel ftw.
Sorry to put you down, but tokens do not trigger morbid effects. When they are destroyed, they are removed from the game, they never go to the graveyard. Only non-tokens can "die".
I've been trying to flesh out a good UWB graveyard deck, and it's a little frustrating running three colors because there is a lot of great stuff you can take, but you want your deck to be as synergistic as possible.
+ Show Spoiler +4x Forbidden Alchemy
3x Sun Titan
4x Liliana of the veil
4x Unburial Rites
4x Think Twice
4x dissipate
4x doom blade
3x oblivion ring
1x Elesh norn, grand cenobite
2x timely reinforcements
1x grave titan
2x Phantasmal Images
4x darkslick shores
4x Isolated Chapels
3x Glacial fortress
4x drowned catacombs
4x swamps
3x islands
2x plains
SB:
3x Dismember
2x seachrome coast
4x Go for the Throat
2x Oblivion ring
2x timely reinforcements
2x Mental Misstep
I'm willing to botch around with the later half of my spells, aside from liliana, sun titan, unburial, alchemy and think twice, which is kinda the core of the three colors. It's the land I'm trying to figure out when running three colors. I feel like I am on the right track with giving myself more chances to get the ball rolling with a U/B pool in the early stages of the game, and then only relying on some white later to get off unburial rites, and the orings/timely, an if I need to hardcast elesh or suntitan, I can. Any thoughts?
Ooh, also, civlized scholar might not be as bad as people think if you are running a skaab ruinator deck or something. He generally gives you 1 critter in the grave as well as forcing your opponent to trade with him. He's a reliable stand in for liliana, but liliana can sac 1 on turn 3, then discard the next two turns. Civilzed does this all on turn 4, which might be a bit late. Still he's a good 3 drop for when you don't have in your hand. Depending on the job you want to fufill of course, merfolk is better in every other situation.
|
Tokens do die. They are marked for lethal damage, die, enter the graveyard and then are immediately exiled. They still enter the graveyard. Why wouldn't they?
216.3. A token in a zone other than the in-play zone ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. (Note that a token changing zones sets off triggered abilities before the token ceases to exist.) Once a token has left play, it can't be returned to play by any means.
|
On September 29 2011 12:40 slyboogie wrote:
Tokens do die. They are marked for lethal damage, die, enter the graveyard and then are immediately exiled. They still enter the graveyard. Why wouldn't they?
216.3. A token in a zone other than the in-play zone ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. (Note that a token changing zones sets off triggered abilities before the token ceases to exist.) Once a token has left play, it can't be returned to play by any means.
Wow, I never heard that, but I guess your right. I've always been told they were exiled when they were destroyed, but that makes sense.
|
On September 29 2011 12:27 DEN1ED wrote:
I don't see a problem with running a 2/2 split of doom blade and go for the throat. 95% of the time they are going to be the same but being able to kill grave titan and spellskite MD seems like a good idea. Sure, one of them might be better 55% of the time but I think they are so close that the flexibility makes up for it.
2/2 Definitely seems smart, or some kind of 3/1 rearrangement.
Tempered Steel is a deck I expect to see, and I don't really want to start off 0-1 against it. Also, Wurmcoil Engine. For this reason I want to run at least 1 Doom Blade.
Various Reanimator decks are another thing I expect people to play around with (and something I'll be playing around with as well) which means big bad black dudes coming at you. For this reason I want to run at least 1 Gofer.
Besides, hopefully the deck will be drawing quite a few cards + assembling a decent toolbox in the yard for Snappy, so having diverse options is always a plus.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
