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On September 29 2011 17:26 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 15:30 slyboogie wrote:
Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time. I dunno, I don't find it to be nitpicky, I think it's a basic part of deckbuilding that a lot of people get wrong, and so I'm trying to give you advice from the perspective of someone who has helped design PT and Worlds T8 decks, but suit yourself. I actually think it's a lot more important of a concept than "Is Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx better in this slot?" since it applies to every deck you'll build.
I think you're mad, sorry.
No, I'm just kidding. I'm not questioning your credentials, you seem to know your stuff, and that's not what I'm addressing. I'm saying that if someone says 2/2 GftT/DB, especially on a forum, you can read it as 4 Doomblades because the spells are functionally identical: Speed, color, cost and mechanic(targets and destroys a single creature.) I admit that the Swords are nowhere near functionally identical, though. Because metagames are different in every community and store, it's difficult for us to identify with one another. There is some store out there where 2/2 is the right split - and it could be mine - I don't know.
And you're right, I don't know my meta. I'm basically guessing. I wasn't saying your advice was wrong or bad, just in this specific case: Doomblade=Go for the Throat on a forum.
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On September 30 2011 01:25 DEN1ED wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 17:26 Cel.erity wrote:On September 29 2011 15:30 slyboogie wrote:
Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time. I dunno, I don't find it to be nitpicky, I think it's a basic part of deckbuilding that a lot of people get wrong, and so I'm trying to give you advice from the perspective of someone who has helped design PT and Worlds T8 decks, but suit yourself. I actually think it's a lot more important of a concept than "Is Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx better in this slot?" since it applies to every deck you'll build. Looking at PVDRs list from worlds last year, he is running 2 disfigure and 3 doomblade. Sure this is slightly different since GftT hadn't been released yet and but you could still say that he should have figure out whether doomblade or disfigure is better. It seems like he settled on doomblade being better since he is running 3 vs the 2 disfigure, but then why isn't he running 4 doomblade and 1 disfigure? Show nested quote +Splitting 2/2 is basically admitting that you don't know your metagame and you're just guessing I would say that not splitting is guessing at this point. Going with a 2/2 split is playing it safe. I don't see how you can be so sure of the metagame just after a set release to go 4-0 either way. Antonino De Rosa X-0d day 1 of PT Philly running a 2-2 split of IoK and duress. He wasn't guessing, he was playing it safe.
Your argument is invalid here because the deck you're quoting is running...let's see...4 Jace, 4 Preordain, and 3 Sea Gate Oracle. Wafo's deck has even more search. The deck slyboogie posted contained only 2 Ponder. That's a pretty huge difference. I specifically stated in my post that it's fine to run 2-ofs if you have ways to abuse the toolbox like Jace and Preordain, but if you have no search, it's a terrible decision.
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Also is running think twice and forbidden alchemy. And alchemy should definitely be a 4 of. Card is insane. I'd say 4 alchemy 3 think twice is better. And if you really want to keep arguing it, looking at PV and Asaharas worlds top 8 lists from 2008, they both have a 2/2 split of agony warp and terror with no ponders or anything to dig. Furthermore, in 2007, Uri Peleg won worlds with a 2/2 split of eyeblgihts ending and nameless inversion. And that was in doran which also had no way to search. But I guess we can just agree to disagree.
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Well, I caused quite a stir posting a Standard Decklist, sorry. Boo at Constructed!
I won my first Innistrad draft at my store today. Pod of 10 at a the "tough" store in my area. Deck was B/R Midrangy went 3-0, 6-1 in individual games.
+ Show Spoiler +
1 Geistflame
2 Harvest Pyre
2 Ashmouth Hound
2 Sticher's Apprentice
2 Traitorous Blood
2 Armored Skaab
2 Riot Devils
1 Brimstone Volley
2 Makeshift Mauler
1 Moon Heron
1 Civilized Scholar/Homicidal Brute
1 Grasp of Phantoms
1 Pitchburn Devil
1 Strumgeist
1 Murder of Crows
1 Ludevic's Test Subject
Side Board included 2 Sensory Deprivations and 2 Bloodcrazed Neonates and 1 more Makeshift Mauler.
I got the Ludevic's Abomination out once...and walked it into a Rebuke, of course. Still, looting is totally nuts. I had surprising trouble casting Makeshift Maulers, I think I should have run the Neonates over the Devils, maybe. Geistflame always does work for you and Sticher's Apprentice is an MVP, especially with Traitorous Blood.
In another Pod, the guy who won had Olivia V. Best crack in limited, still, IMO.
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On September 30 2011 15:53 slyboogie wrote:Well, I caused quite a stir posting a Standard Decklist, sorry. Boo at Constructed! I won my first Innistrad draft at my store today. Pod of 10 at a the "tough" store in my area. Deck was B/R Midrangy went 3-0, 6-1 in individual games. + Show Spoiler +
1 Geistflame
2 Harvest Pyre
2 Ashmouth Hound
2 Sticher's Apprentice
2 Traitorous Blood
2 Armored Skaab
2 Riot Devils
1 Brimstone Volley
2 Makeshift Mauler
1 Moon Heron
1 Civilized Scholar/Homicidal Brute
1 Grasp of Phantoms
1 Pitchburn Devil
1 Strumgeist
1 Murder of Crows
1 Ludevic's Test Subject
Side Board included 2 Sensory Deprivations and 2 Bloodcrazed Neonates and 1 more Makeshift Mauler. I got the Ludevic's Abomination out once...and walked it into a Rebuke, of course. Still, looting is totally nuts. I had surprising trouble casting Makeshift Maulers, I think I should have run the Neonates over the Devils, maybe. Geistflame always does work for you and Sticher's Apprentice is an MVP, especially with Traitorous Blood. In another Pod, the guy who won had Olivia V. Best crack in limited, still, IMO.
Awesome! I'm going to say that you made the right decision, though, with regards to Neonate v Pitchburn. You can often 2 for 1 with pitchburn, trade for a higher value card, or force villain to have to stall. And in a red deck that's up to 5 mana in this format, stalling is generally going to be heavily in your favor. You have the sturmgeist and if you can land that while he's unable to attack you can sit pretty, traitorous blood for if they manage to land their bomb, or while you wait for a harvest pyre to settle on into your hand if you've already blown some answers to his bomb. That's a really nice R/U you drafted, good job 
Pre-Edit: I love the card in limited now that I've had the chance to play with it, but I don't think devils has a place in constructed for all the hype I'm giving it here. There are better 5 mana 2fors
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On September 30 2011 12:39 DEN1ED wrote:
Also is running think twice and forbidden alchemy. And alchemy should definitely be a 4 of. Card is insane. I'd say 4 alchemy 3 think twice is better. And if you really want to keep arguing it, looking at PV and Asaharas worlds top 8 lists from 2008, they both have a 2/2 split of agony warp and terror with no ponders or anything to dig. Furthermore, in 2007, Uri Peleg won worlds with a 2/2 split of eyeblgihts ending and nameless inversion. And that was in doran which also had no way to search. But I guess we can just agree to disagree.
It's very long been said that having a variety of answers for different problems will really give you an advantage over someone that is paying attention to what's in your deck. Of course if your removal is specifically for one matchup, and one problem card, be sure it can hit it when building your deck. Otherwise running a variety will throw off your opponent's when they put you on one card, and you have another. Running one of's of answers has long been an approach to building control decks, even without dig. However having a variety of removal(as long as it's all solid, don't run a 5cc terror cause it gives you "variety". I haven't played too recently, but I'm sure if the removal spells are solid and have multiple options, you usually can't go wrong with a few of each, unless of course there is 1 major problem creature that can't be killed by one card. Like if every deck in the format runs black and artifact creatures, don't take terror main deck.
However, if your an extremely aggressive deck, your deck should usually be 4 ofs all the way through, just cause you have to be as fast and effective as possible, rarely will you see aggro decks mix up their spell slots. The 2-3 of's in aggro decks are often finishing or game changing spells/creatures that have a higher avg mana cost than the rest of the deck.
Midrange deck's are weird, and there are like 400 different types of them, so yeah..
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On September 30 2011 15:53 slyboogie wrote:
In another Pod, the guy who won had Olivia V. Best crack in limited, still, IMO.
I think I'd rather open Devil's Play. It only puts you in one color and it will either be very good card advantage by taking out their best creatures, or it will just win the game. Olivia is a very close 2nd though I'd say.
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On October 01 2011 01:12 DEN1ED wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 15:53 slyboogie wrote:
In another Pod, the guy who won had Olivia V. Best crack in limited, still, IMO. I think I'd rather open Devil's Play. It only puts you in one color and it will either be very good card advantage by taking out their best creatures, or it will just win the game. Olivia is a very close 2nd though I'd say.
Definitely have to agree. Devils play seems insane even if it's only able to be used for a realistic 5 then 3
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I don't want to buy Snapcasters anymore, but I need them.
Over/Under time.
Foil, Korean Snapcaster Mage.
Line set at 115$. Any takers?
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On October 01 2011 00:03 Risen wrote:Awesome! I'm going to say that you made the right decision, though, with regards to Neonate v Pitchburn. You can often 2 for 1 with pitchburn, trade for a higher value card, or force villain to have to stall. And in a red deck that's up to 5 mana in this format, stalling is generally going to be heavily in your favor. You have the sturmgeist and if you can land that while he's unable to attack you can sit pretty, traitorous blood for if they manage to land their bomb, or while you wait for a harvest pyre to settle on into your hand if you've already blown some answers to his bomb. That's a really nice R/U you drafted, good job Pre-Edit: I love the card in limited now that I've had the chance to play with it, but I don't think devils has a place in constructed for all the hype I'm giving it here. There are better 5 mana 2fors
Thank you! I actually meant Neonates over Riot Devils, the 3mana for 2/3.
On October 01 2011 01:12 DEN1ED wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 15:53 slyboogie wrote:
In another Pod, the guy who won had Olivia V. Best crack in limited, still, IMO. I think I'd rather open Devil's Play. It only puts you in one color and it will either be very good card advantage by taking out their best creatures, or it will just win the game. Olivia is a very close 2nd though I'd say.
Actually, I have never played or played against or seen Devil's Play! If you look a few pages back, I'm the guy who won't shut up about Fireball being the best pick in M12 (except for Mythics and Mind Control.) So I instinctively love Devil's Play, so you won't get a strong argument from me. But...having seen Olivia in about 4 matches, she is somewhat "Planeswalker-y." That is to say, when she lands, the opponent becomes completely aware that she HAS to be dealt with in about 2 turns, or they are going to lose. If there was a foil Devil's Play and an Olivia in my first pack? I dunno?
EDIT: Also Olivia is only 2RB, that's not bad for a 3/3 flyer off the bat. If you have a Shimmering Grotto or a Traveler's Amulet or Caravan Vigil, she isn't very stifling at all.
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I think she's so strong in limited because the removal in the set is very situational and not only is she black, but she's also a vampire.
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Well, I love talking draft so I've got a rating question for you guys. I think everyone loves Devil's Play. But let's compare it to some other rares and Mythics. Which cards would you take OVER Devil's Play? Take monetary value out of the question of course.
+ Show Spoiler +
Angelic Overseer
Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Snapcaster Mage
Liliana of the Veil
Army of the Damned
Balefire Dragon
Garruk Relentless
Geist of Saint Traft
Grimgrin, the Corpse-Born
Olivia Voldaren
As I said earlier, I'd probably take Olivia over Devil's Play and maybe the Balefire Dragon, because I'm a sucker for winning with a Dragon. rawr.
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So this thread made me put some money into MTGO XD. Anyone wanna share their ID so we can buddy up and pester you online for guidance  .
Made a ghetto pauper U/G infect/lashwire deck that I thought up of while browsing the standard card pool. Would love for the more seasoned players to rip it apart and tell me how bad I am. It only cost me 4 tokens with 90% of the cost being mental misstep.
I have no idea on the meta-game beyond what I gathered from looking at the cardpools. From that I gathered that swords look retardedly op, birthing pod/green sun + giants seem op, artifacts + tempered steel seem really strong, and splinter twin + that blue creature that untaps (and that innstrad white creature that untaps all creatures) looks like an infinite loop oO.
That said, please add me! I'd love to talk with better players than myself (Id: CantAffordCards)
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Pauper is common only. So you can't play mental misstep or livewire lash unfortunately. But it's probably a fine deck for casual standard.
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On October 01 2011 07:10 DEN1ED wrote:
Pauper is common only. So you can't play mental misstep or livewire lash unfortunately. But it's probably a fine deck for casual standard.
Pauper is actually a format now? haha. Before it just meant your deck was cheap as hell.
Yeah, I'm just casual type II in atm, but would love to move onto tournys since they are alot more fun need to get a ton better though.
Edit:
Is there a site I can upload my .dec for viewing?
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You can try tappedout to upload. It provides you with graphs for analysis.
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Can anyone help me with the UI for MTGO?
I've been practicing online and for some reason, it won't give me a chance to play any instants after their instants/sorcery. Everyone I've played with has been friendly and tried to help me but all their recommended fixes doesn't seem to work (Going to game options and adding a stop to everything except draw / not using f6, which i never did to start with)
Bit frustrating to lose games because I couldn't protect my creatures or counter the other player's dumps. One game I had full hand of Mental misstep /manaleak because I couldnt cast it ever :/.
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On October 01 2011 06:11 slyboogie wrote:Well, I love talking draft so I've got a rating question for you guys. I think everyone loves Devil's Play. But let's compare it to some other rares and Mythics. Which cards would you take OVER Devil's Play? Take monetary value out of the question of course. + Show Spoiler +
Angelic Overseer
Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Snapcaster Mage
Liliana of the Veil
Army of the Damned
Balefire Dragon
Garruk Relentless
Geist of Saint Traft
Grimgrin, the Corpse-Born
Olivia Voldaren
As I said earlier, I'd probably take Olivia over Devil's Play and maybe the Balefire Dragon, because I'm a sucker for winning with a Dragon. rawr.
Probably none of those. The only cards I can think of that are close are Olivia and the vampire-making guy, but since they're both creatures, that makes them vulnerable.
I haven't played the format yet, so take my advice for what it is...I'm sure Devil's Play has to be better than random dorks like Geist and 7-drops like Balefire Dragon though.
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Just came back from FNM sealed deck. Looking for some pricing predictions.
Current Prices:
Hinterland Harbor: 6.25 - 9.99
Hero of Bladehold: 7.78 - 11.87
Sheoldred, Whispering One: 2.39 - 6.47
Heartless Summoning: 3.56 - 8.99
Mentor of the Meek: 3.26 - 5.99
Which of these do you think will go down as people start constructing decks? I don't play standard, so I want to trade in the droppers asap.
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For one, any planeswalkers you get your hands on will drop. Liliana will drop by at least $5. Garruk is already dropping like a stone.
I honestly think heartless summoning will go up, but I am a bit biased since thats currently what I am investing in. Hero is going to stay at about the same. Sheoldred is only that much because it is a mythic. Elesh norn will see more play than Sheoldred. The dual-lands are going to stay at about 6 for a while. The only direction for the dual-lands is up.
I would personally trade off Geist and all the other mythic creatures in Innistrad except for maybe Mikaeus. Angelic overseers gunna hover at that price even if it sees play, its no baneslayer. Ruinator scaab is currently on a fall but I am guessing its going to be staying at about $15.
I honestly think snapcastor mage is overrated. Its good, but not as good as people are making it out to be.
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EPT
