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On September 29 2011 13:07 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 12:40 slyboogie wrote:
Tokens do die. They are marked for lethal damage, die, enter the graveyard and then are immediately exiled. They still enter the graveyard. Why wouldn't they?
216.3. A token in a zone other than the in-play zone ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. (Note that a token changing zones sets off triggered abilities before the token ceases to exist.) Once a token has left play, it can't be returned to play by any means. Wow, I never heard that, but I guess your right. I've always been told they were exiled when they were destroyed, but that makes sense.
When tokens die they do trigger 'hitting the graveyard' abilities.
Haven't played magic in a while, looked at new setlist and there are cards that put 13 zombies into play? Wow I've missed a lot.
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Didn't know there was a magic thread here. o.o Also happy birthday to Celerity (probably past by now, looking at the time, but eh.)
I'm gonna post a few decklists I've been working on here.
Esper control
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inn-esper/
Reanimator/dredge mix (This still needs a lot of tweaking, hard to find the perfect mix of control and action (action being milling yourself, then again I could just go the dredge route and not interact at all)
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dredgimator/
UB Control, with a slight splash of white (for sb)
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inn-ub/
I don't really enjoy playing the first one so much, it's very versatile though.
The reanimator list.. I feel reanimate isn't a deck right now, solely because there aren't any creatures that just literally end the game in standard (that are reanimate-able.) If blightsteel could last in the GY, or if rites was an instant, we'd be in business
The UB Control list is my attempt at porting my rl list into the new format, I splashed white mainly because UB can't really handle birthing pod, or artifacts (puresteel equips, more like,) so that new card is a pretty good beating, and may as well just throw in some timely's for good measure.
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On September 29 2011 14:11 Durp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 13:07 bumatlarge wrote:On September 29 2011 12:40 slyboogie wrote:
Tokens do die. They are marked for lethal damage, die, enter the graveyard and then are immediately exiled. They still enter the graveyard. Why wouldn't they?
216.3. A token in a zone other than the in-play zone ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. (Note that a token changing zones sets off triggered abilities before the token ceases to exist.) Once a token has left play, it can't be returned to play by any means. Wow, I never heard that, but I guess your right. I've always been told they were exiled when they were destroyed, but that makes sense. When tokens die they do trigger 'hitting the graveyard' abilities. Haven't played magic in a while, looked at new setlist and there are cards that put 13 zombies into play? Wow I've missed a lot.
Haha ya, this set is pretty wanky with the flavor.
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On September 29 2011 14:22 akisa wrote:Didn't know there was a magic thread here. o.o Also happy birthday to Celerity (probably past by now, looking at the time, but eh.) I'm gonna post a few decklists I've been working on here. Esper control http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inn-esper/Reanimator/dredge mix (This still needs a lot of tweaking, hard to find the perfect mix of control and action (action being milling yourself, then again I could just go the dredge route and not interact at all) http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dredgimator/ UB Control, with a slight splash of white (for sb) http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inn-ub/I don't really enjoy playing the first one so much, it's very versatile though. The reanimator list.. I feel reanimate isn't a deck right now, solely because there aren't any creatures that just literally end the game in standard (that are reanimate-able.) If blightsteel could last in the GY, or if rites was an instant, we'd be in business The UB Control list is my attempt at porting my rl list into the new format, I splashed white mainly because UB can't really handle birthing pod, or artifacts (puresteel equips, more like,) so that new card is a pretty good beating, and may as well just throw in some timely's for good measure.
In UWB, Sun Titan s amazing, since he can grab back Liliana and Geist. That's crazy bang for you buck :D
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On September 29 2011 14:52 bumatlarge wrote:In UWB, Sun Titan s amazing, since he can grab back Liliana and Geist. That's crazy bang for you buck :D
I dunno, maybe I'm just used to 6 drops being more powerful than just recurring a 3 drop, I've been playing UB since paris so.. I'm just used to grave titan and wurmcoil, and sphinx, so I'm not too fond of sun titan. >-> Also by that point, bringing back liliana is more of a novelty than a necessity imo.
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Suntitans + Phantasmals = Massive Value.
UW Sunshine
+ Show Spoiler +
3 Sun Titan
4 Phantasmal Image
3 Skaab Ruinator
4 Blade Splicer
4 Fiend Hunter
18 Creatures
4 Think Twice
2 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Dismember
2 Divine Reckoning
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Venser the Soujourner
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
18 Artifacts/Sorc/Instant/Walkers
24 Lands
This is what I'm playing on friday at my FNM. Most everyone has been testing post rotation anyway so I'm sure people will have decks ready even if they don't want to play in the release tourny.
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On September 29 2011 14:07 numLoCK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 12:27 DEN1ED wrote:
I don't see a problem with running a 2/2 split of doom blade and go for the throat. 95% of the time they are going to be the same but being able to kill grave titan and spellskite MD seems like a good idea. Sure, one of them might be better 55% of the time but I think they are so close that the flexibility makes up for it. 2/2 Definitely seems smart, or some kind of 3/1 rearrangement.
I think Doom Blade is just much better than GftT in this format, but even if it's not, one of them is better and that's the one you should play 4 of. Splitting 2/2 is basically admitting that you don't know your metagame and you're just guessing, unless you have tons of search, where the flexibility starts to matter. Sure it's cool to say "My deck has md answers to Grave Titan and Spellskite" but so what, you don't want your deck to be able to answer everything. You want it to be able to answer the most common things, more often. If Doom Blade is 5% better then you should play 4 of it and 0 GftTs, and put GftT in the board if you're that concerned over not having answers.
Again, the only time 2/2 would be correct is if you run the risk of 4 DBs being dead against the decks they're good against (like Dismember, the first two are good but the third is awful), or if you had enough search/looter-type effects to utilize your toolbox.
Edit: I should add after reading the post above me, splitting swords is silly for the same reason unless you have search. One of them is better in the metagame, pick it and play 2/0 instead of 1/1.
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The sword split is mostly because I only have access to one of each. I'd rather them not be in the deck to be honest, but I'm stuck digging for cards now that I don't have wall of omens.
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Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time.
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How much would it cost to get started in the new standard rotation? (online)
Used to play semi-competitively back in.... 2002 or 2003.... ;;
I'm guessing I'd have to build a pauper type 2 deck and grind it out in 4-3-3-2 (I think this was it?) for tokens/cards.
If anyone got tips or websites I can read upon I'd really appreciate it haha.
Tempered steel/arti deck cheap at all? Looks pretty promising for the upcoming standard from my brief study of the cards but I'm rusty as hell so I could be completely off.
An Old Friend showed me a pyromancer deck and it was insanely good and it sparked my interest in magic again  (though he told me today that its rotating out and 2 important cards are being banned)
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On September 29 2011 15:30 slyboogie wrote:
Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time.
I dunno, I don't find it to be nitpicky, I think it's a basic part of deckbuilding that a lot of people get wrong, and so I'm trying to give you advice from the perspective of someone who has helped design PT and Worlds T8 decks, but suit yourself.
I actually think it's a lot more important of a concept than "Is Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx better in this slot?" since it applies to every deck you'll build.
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On September 29 2011 16:12 wassbix wrote:How much would it cost to get started in the new standard rotation? (online) Used to play semi-competitively back in.... 2002 or 2003.... ;; I'm guessing I'd have to build a pauper type 2 deck and grind it out in 4-3-3-2 (I think this was it?) for tokens/cards. If anyone got tips or websites I can read upon I'd really appreciate it haha. Tempered steel/arti deck cheap at all? Looks pretty promising for the upcoming standard from my brief study of the cards but I'm rusty as hell so I could be completely off. An Old Friend showed me a pyromancer deck and it was insanely good and it sparked my interest in magic again (though he told me today that its rotating out and 2 important cards are being banned)
If you're very good at drafting you can do 8-4s and go infinite. If you're mortal like me, wait a few weeks after innistrad release for things to settle down, then find a deck that's winning 60+%. Find the cheapest of these decks, build it, and play in 8man constructed standards. You'll go positive, and you can use all those spare packs/tickets to fund your drafting/sealed play (which is where the real fun in magic is for me)
Edit: Oh, and no, not nitpicky.
Double Edit: In U/B I can see a 3/1 dblade/gftt split working if you have search available soon and in a way that doesn't fuck your shit up. Anything else 4/0 dblade/gftt is what I'd run in my meta (Vegas and Flagstaff). If mono black and the like are rampant in your area then yeah, I guess 4 gftt is more viable
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On September 29 2011 17:26 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 15:30 slyboogie wrote:
Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time. I dunno, I don't find it to be nitpicky, I think it's a basic part of deckbuilding that a lot of people get wrong, and so I'm trying to give you advice from the perspective of someone who has helped design PT and Worlds T8 decks, but suit yourself. I actually think it's a lot more important of a concept than "Is Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx better in this slot?" since it applies to every deck you'll build.
Looking at PVDRs list from worlds last year, he is running 2 disfigure and 3 doomblade. Sure this is slightly different since GftT hadn't been released yet and but you could still say that he should have figure out whether doomblade or disfigure is better. It seems like he settled on doomblade being better since he is running 3 vs the 2 disfigure, but then why isn't he running 4 doomblade and 1 disfigure?
Splitting 2/2 is basically admitting that you don't know your metagame and you're just guessing
I would say that not splitting is guessing at this point. Going with a 2/2 split is playing it safe. I don't see how you can be so sure of the metagame just after a set release to go 4-0 either way. Antonino De Rosa X-0d day 1 of PT Philly running a 2-2 split of IoK and duress. He wasn't guessing, he was playing it safe.
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On September 30 2011 01:25 DEN1ED wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 17:26 Cel.erity wrote:On September 29 2011 15:30 slyboogie wrote:
Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time. I dunno, I don't find it to be nitpicky, I think it's a basic part of deckbuilding that a lot of people get wrong, and so I'm trying to give you advice from the perspective of someone who has helped design PT and Worlds T8 decks, but suit yourself. I actually think it's a lot more important of a concept than "Is Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx better in this slot?" since it applies to every deck you'll build. Looking at PVDRs list from worlds last year, he is running 2 disfigure and 3 doomblade. Sure this is slightly different since GftT hadn't been released yet and but you could still say that he should have figure out whether doomblade or disfigure is better. It seems like he settled on doomblade being better since he is running 3 vs the 2 disfigure, but then why isn't he running 4 doomblade and 1 disfigure? Show nested quote +Splitting 2/2 is basically admitting that you don't know your metagame and you're just guessing I would say that not splitting is guessing at this point. Going with a 2/2 split is playing it safe. I don't see how you can be so sure of the metagame just after a set release to go 4-0 either way. Antonino De Rosa X-0d day 1 of PT Philly running a 2-2 split of IoK and duress. He wasn't guessing, he was playing it safe.
Shot in the dark here. You do know you can't regenerate something that has been disfigured, but you can regen something that has been dbladed, right?
Maybe he wanted some regen protection in his deck that dblade doesn't provide.
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I don't think you understood my post. I'm not saying PV is wrong. But saying "Maybe he wanted some regen protection in his deck that dblade doesn't provide" is like saying "maybe he wanted some black creature hate in his deck that dblade doesn't provide but GftT does."
And yes, I know the rules of the game.
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On September 30 2011 02:16 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 01:25 DEN1ED wrote:On September 29 2011 17:26 Cel.erity wrote:On September 29 2011 15:30 slyboogie wrote:
Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time. I dunno, I don't find it to be nitpicky, I think it's a basic part of deckbuilding that a lot of people get wrong, and so I'm trying to give you advice from the perspective of someone who has helped design PT and Worlds T8 decks, but suit yourself. I actually think it's a lot more important of a concept than "Is Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx better in this slot?" since it applies to every deck you'll build. Looking at PVDRs list from worlds last year, he is running 2 disfigure and 3 doomblade. Sure this is slightly different since GftT hadn't been released yet and but you could still say that he should have figure out whether doomblade or disfigure is better. It seems like he settled on doomblade being better since he is running 3 vs the 2 disfigure, but then why isn't he running 4 doomblade and 1 disfigure? Splitting 2/2 is basically admitting that you don't know your metagame and you're just guessing I would say that not splitting is guessing at this point. Going with a 2/2 split is playing it safe. I don't see how you can be so sure of the metagame just after a set release to go 4-0 either way. Antonino De Rosa X-0d day 1 of PT Philly running a 2-2 split of IoK and duress. He wasn't guessing, he was playing it safe. Shot in the dark here. You do know you can't regenerate something that has been disfigured, but you can regen something that has been dbladed, right? Maybe he wanted some regen protection in his deck that dblade doesn't provide.
Except that there wasn't anything relevant in Standard at that time that had regenerate.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?Location=2010 Worlds - Top 8
Disfigure was pretty sweet for the Vampires matchup, as well as getting rid of elves in Eldrazi Green.
Both finalists ran plenty of 2-ofs There is no problem with running 2-of's, especially when you have multiple choices of cards that fulfill similar purposes.
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On September 30 2011 02:28 DEN1ED wrote:
I don't think you understood my post. I'm not saying PV is wrong. But saying "Maybe he wanted some regen protection in his deck that dblade doesn't provide" is like saying "maybe he wanted some black creature hate in his deck that dblade doesn't provide but GftT does."
You make a good point there. Just seems like gftt is hedging to me and disfigure is not. No idea why.
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On September 30 2011 02:28 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 02:16 Risen wrote:On September 30 2011 01:25 DEN1ED wrote:On September 29 2011 17:26 Cel.erity wrote:On September 29 2011 15:30 slyboogie wrote:
Sometimes people just split the difference on forums. 2/2 Doomblade/Go for the Throat and 1/1 Sword of Feast and Famine/War and Peace is just there to say...both are there. Slide out the GftT against Tempered Steel blah blah. On a forum, I read them as functionally the same. Basically, I'm saying that you're being kinda nit-picky.
Though, avoiding too many 2-ofs is good advice for sure. I find myself falling into that pitfall all the time. I dunno, I don't find it to be nitpicky, I think it's a basic part of deckbuilding that a lot of people get wrong, and so I'm trying to give you advice from the perspective of someone who has helped design PT and Worlds T8 decks, but suit yourself. I actually think it's a lot more important of a concept than "Is Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx better in this slot?" since it applies to every deck you'll build. Looking at PVDRs list from worlds last year, he is running 2 disfigure and 3 doomblade. Sure this is slightly different since GftT hadn't been released yet and but you could still say that he should have figure out whether doomblade or disfigure is better. It seems like he settled on doomblade being better since he is running 3 vs the 2 disfigure, but then why isn't he running 4 doomblade and 1 disfigure? Splitting 2/2 is basically admitting that you don't know your metagame and you're just guessing I would say that not splitting is guessing at this point. Going with a 2/2 split is playing it safe. I don't see how you can be so sure of the metagame just after a set release to go 4-0 either way. Antonino De Rosa X-0d day 1 of PT Philly running a 2-2 split of IoK and duress. He wasn't guessing, he was playing it safe. Shot in the dark here. You do know you can't regenerate something that has been disfigured, but you can regen something that has been dbladed, right? Maybe he wanted some regen protection in his deck that dblade doesn't provide. Both finalists ran 2 Consume the Meek/2 Doom Blade/2 Disfigure main deck. There is no problem with running 2-of's, especially when you have multiple choices of cards that fulfill similar purposes.
Wafo-Tapa was actually only running 2 doomblade and no disfigures but he was playing a total of 7 2-ofs and a 2-2 split of IoK and duress.
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guys you really shouldnt analyze older formats for this kind of stuff. really just use your head and test and see how stuff feels. disfigure was there against red and other aggro strats where the extra mana was a BIG deal.
so if you can test against the recent decks and be fast enough with 2 mana kill spells and w/e other goodies/tech new black/blue control decks have, you dont need disfigure. or maybe you have a good enough game 1 that you can just side them. or maybe you want to throw away game one(or hope they keep a particularly bad draw) and wreck them game 2 and 3.
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The argument of 4-ofs vs 2-ofs is just a general discussion about magic. Looking at older formats is perfectly fine.
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EPT
