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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 09 2014 10:58 deth2munkies wrote: Tell that to high tide. Oh wait, Wizards doesn't give a fuck about Legacy. Had a high tide player go off on me 10 minutes before the round would end. The round ended, we were on turn zero--he was still going off. 15 minutes after the round ended turn 0 finished and he won. All four timespirals were cast that game. It was insane. | ||
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On October 09 2014 12:52 Judicator wrote: No idea, tried Keranos based control but didn't like it. Need to take another look again. Was messing around in Modern with the Ascendancy deck. Try the Esper shell going around, It's pretty strong but the mana is a bit iffy. UB looks good too but losing Ram and End Hostilities is definitely felt. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 09 2014 12:52 Judicator wrote: No idea, tried Keranos based control but didn't like it. Need to take another look again. Was messing around in Modern with the Ascendancy deck. Esper's actually not bad. I lost a couple times to a deck that just T5 Wrath into T6 Elspeth every game, a lot of midrange decks can't beat it unless they have Downfall that turn. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 09 2014 21:32 deth2munkies wrote: Esper's actually not bad. I lost a couple times to a deck that just T5 Wrath into T6 Elspeth every game, a lot of midrange decks can't beat it unless they have Downfall that turn. Dig Through Time is no Rev, but even if you EOT delve for 2-3 it will give you such high card quality that it would at least be close enough to rev. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On October 09 2014 15:35 Shotcoder wrote: Try the Esper shell going around, It's pretty strong but the mana is a bit iffy. UB looks good too but losing Ram and End Hostilities is definitely felt. Esper just seems like its weaker than BUG, Ascendancy gives me a better draws and with Abrupt Decay gone, there aren't a whole lot that interact with it. I am interacting at instant speed most of the time and End Hostilies while good isn't what I have been finding to be necessary. Sure the Hostilities to Elspeth line is strong, but so is going over the top with Garruk on 7 right afterwards. I actually went testing with BUG after I saw/responded to your post, tweaked the deck some more and am now beginning to like it. The biggest thing about Esper is the lack of a Charm which I feel taxes your deck building a little too much right now; Sultai Charm fills the GY and filters my hand allowing me to play a little more Delve cards. Plus it lets me hit some critical enchantments like Whip. I don't know, but Esper just felt like it was a bit awkward both in construction and play. Sultai Charm and Ascendancy especially the latter has just won me games with their abilities. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On October 10 2014 09:29 MCMcEmcee wrote: Esper was doing ok in my testing but always felt crappy even when winning. Nothing stuck out as bad but it just feels like it should never win, then you untap with 8+ mana and chain digs and feel like you can't lose Elspeth is still a better finisher than whatever BUG can muster. Dig is pretty insane, I thought that card was a sorcery during prelim testing and didn't like it. BUG I feel like after more testing that your Delve management is important, aka a turn 3 resolved Ascendancy pretty much means you're never drawing useless cards willingly again. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On October 10 2014 10:45 MCMcEmcee wrote: I was liking how BUG played out in the early/midgame relative to Esper but it felt like actually closing games out was difficult. Sphinx is mostly unstoppable but can be raced. I even considered playing like Hooting Mandrills just to have a cheap midgame threat that didn't cost infinite colored mana, isn't as huge a hit on your 'yard as Necropolis Fiend. Yep, thats exactly how I felt, I thought about cutting Sphinxes for Garruks and just take the game extra long, but you don't have an Elsepth. Its in that weird UB world where you have the game won except actually winning it, which is actually weird considering UG has some sweet top end finishers. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 3 Prognostic Sphinx 3 Ashiok Nightmareweaver 2 Jace, The Living Guildpact 2 Murderous Cut 2 Dig Through Time 4 Dissolve 4 Hero's Downfall 3 Drown in Sorrow 3 Bile Blight 2 Divination 2 Jace's Ingenuity 2 Silence the Believers 2 Aetherspouts 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 4 Polluted Delta 4 Temple of Deceit 4 Dismal Backwater 4 Radiant Fountain 5 Island 4 Swamp Sideboard 2 Negate 2 Disdainful stroke 3 Pharika's Cure 3 Thoughtseize 1 Liliana Vess 1 Drown in Sorrow 1 Bile Blight 1 Clever Impersonator 1 Empty the Pit That is where I am right now with the list with things possible to change. I looked at BUG for awhile but I felt like the deck wanted to be a weird Midrange reanimator strategy and not a control shell. Having access to great delve cards and Whip plus all the enablers like Sidisi just screams to get broken open. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Also what you are describing Shotcoder is a Junk shell, not BUG. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On October 10 2014 16:21 Judicator wrote: So I typed up some choices I would make with that list, but just stopped, I don't think your list is very competitive but no idea what kind of testing you have done so I could be just be wrong. I don't think you can beat Green, Junk, or GB Sidisi. Also what you are describing Shotcoder is a Junk shell, not BUG. No I;m talking about a BUG version of the same junk midrange list you're describing. Use enablers like Sidisi to dump your dudes and then recurring them or using strong delve cards to get even more value. And the list hasn't been tested. I literally looked at lists I like from states last weekend and talked with a few mtgo streamers and this is where I ended up that didnt involve me dumping money into Elspeths and a pretty stupid mana base for esper, also most of the cards are borrowed as I don't have anything for standard but Flooded Strands(picked them up for modern). Eventually I'll play Esper at competitive events but there's a small cost threshold currently. Speaking of which I currently have a playset of Lilys and Dark confidants I'm thinking of pitching. Probably for other modern cards like Tarns and Deltas...etc for UW/x lists.Thoughts? I've been playing UW a lot lately and would like to branch out my deck options. I don't plan on investing in Tarmogoyfs either. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
Some locals were working on 4-color reanimator which might be sweet but I haven't put any work into it yet and haven't really looked at the list so I dunno | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On October 10 2014 16:21 Judicator wrote: So I typed up some choices I would make with that list, but just stopped, I don't think your list is very competitive but no idea what kind of testing you have done so I could be just be wrong. I don't think you can beat Green, Junk, or GB Sidisi. Also what you are describing Shotcoder is a Junk shell, not BUG. I assume Shotcoder based his list off the UB list that went 4-0 in a daily. Looks very similar. That list ran despise though which I think is very important. You want to be able to try and snag their powerful 3 drop like rabble, mantis, crouser, brimaz etc when you are on the draw. Otherwise you will be playing from behind a lot of games. Also, UW heroic is actually insane. Been playing it a lot online in dailys with good success. Aqueous form just lets you roll over all the green midrange decks. | ||
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BallinWitStalin
1177 Posts
Leyline seems like its pretty much the be-all-end-all red hoser. In a leyline heavy metagame, why wouldn't burn players run a single taiga main, with destructive revelry in the sideboard? Destructive revelry seems pretty decent, and can even substitute for a smash to smithereens in a pinch, and offers red the only shot at enchantment destruction it has outside apocalypse. If you're running lavamancers (which seem awesome when there's so many delvers flying around), you're probably running eight fetches anyways. Why not bump that up to ten fetches, after which you've pretty much got reliable access to your one green mana to cast the revelry if u need it. The only downside I see is taking two damage from your own PoP. While two damage may matter in the rare game, I guarantee that leylines matter every single game they're played against a burn deck. So why not? | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
On October 11 2014 02:09 DEN1ED wrote: Also, UW heroic is actually insane. Been playing it a lot online in dailys with good success. Aqueous form just lets you roll over all the green midrange decks. Are you playing Tom Ross' list with the 4 Eidolon of Countless Battles? I just built that today (just waiting for the flooded strands to come in the mail) | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
On October 11 2014 10:52 BallinWitStalin wrote: Sorry to bother you guys so much with such niche questions, but I have another legacy burn question. Leyline seems like its pretty much the be-all-end-all red hoser. In a leyline heavy metagame, why wouldn't burn players run a single taiga main, with destructive revelry in the sideboard? Destructive revelry seems pretty decent, and can even substitute for a smash to smithereens in a pinch, and offers red the only shot at enchantment destruction it has outside apocalypse. If you're running lavamancers (which seem awesome when there's so many delvers flying around), you're probably running eight fetches anyways. Why not bump that up to ten fetches, after which you've pretty much got reliable access to your one green mana to cast the revelry if u need it. The only downside I see is taking two damage from your own PoP. While two damage may matter in the rare game, I guarantee that leylines matter every single game they're played against a burn deck. So why not? Could also splash white which gives access to Wear//Tear. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On October 11 2014 10:59 Fishgle wrote: Are you playing Tom Ross' list with the 4 Eidolon of Countless Battles? I just built that today (just waiting for the flooded strands to come in the mail) Yes, I'm playing his exact list. It's really good. Anyone else watching the PT? The match between Williams and Rietzl was probably the most entertaining match I've watched in a long time. | ||
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