EPTOn September 23 2014 17:03 Whole wrote:
Has anyone tried Treasure Cruise in Legacy?
Has anyone tried Treasure Cruise in Legacy?
in what deck? and what do you cut in said deck?
Magic: The Gathering - Page 563
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
in what deck? and what do you cut in said deck? | ||
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annedeman
Netherlands350 Posts
On September 23 2014 17:03 Whole wrote: Has anyone tried Treasure Cruise in Legacy? not yet, but Carsten Kotter :http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29337_The-Most-Dangerous-Cards-In-Khans-Of-Tarkir.html tried them in BUG delver instead of tombstalkers | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On September 23 2014 17:52 annedeman wrote: not yet, but Carsten Kotter :http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29337_The-Most-Dangerous-Cards-In-Khans-Of-Tarkir.html tried them in BUG delver instead of tombstalkers in Modern and Legacy where graveyard hate is so big is it worth taking collateral damage? also the anti synergy with goyf can be painful. Edit: I'm not trying to shoot it down, I'm trying to find out if it's actually viable. They seem strong but I dont know if they're that strong. | ||
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annedeman
Netherlands350 Posts
On September 23 2014 18:01 Shotcoder wrote: in Modern and Legacy where graveyard hate is so big is it worth taking collateral damage? also the anti synergy with goyf can be painful. Edit: I'm not trying to shoot it down, I'm trying to find out if it's actually viable. They seem strong but I dont know if they're that strong. they were already playing nimble mongeese and tombstalkers(tombstalkers in decks with goyfs and deathrites, without redrawing cards to refill your graveyard for goyfs in the tombstalker case), and the graveyard hate never made them unviable, i cant see how it should be bigger here(and in eternal formats dig en cruise do something thats fundamentally more powerfull then dropping a big dude in the early midgame), and in modern i am actually happy when they dilute their deck with most graveyard hate, most decks rely at least somewhat on their own graveyard, and most oneshot graveyard hate is actually pretty bad vs delve cards, and they have to end up diluting their gameplan by playing those cards anyway, its not like its free to board in gy hate, creature based graveyard hate was no problem in my modern testing(the ooze). the mainboard relics out of tron might very well be. Although personally i find it slightly more likely decks will play like 2 or 3 and not 4 like Korter used, but especially in for example modern scapeshift i would be very excited if my opponents would bring in graveyard hate. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
Been playing Bug Delver a bunch in Standard and chaining Cruises is pretty much the best | ||
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las91
United States5080 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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.AK
United States561 Posts
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Tarias
Netherlands480 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [The List] + The list: //25 Lands 4#Temple of Malady 4#Temple of Mistery 4#Polluted Delta 2#Opulent Palace 1#Urborg 5#Forest 3#Swamp 2#Island //10 Creatures 4#Sylvan Caryatid 4#Courser of Kruphix 2#Prognostic Spinx //17 Spells 4#Thoughtseize 4#Hero's Downfall 4#Sultai Charm 4#Bile Blight 1#Silence the believers //8 Planeswalkers 3#Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver 2#Kiora, the Crashing Wave 2#Nissa, Worldwaker 1#Garruk, Apex Predator //15 Sideboard 3#Nylea's Disciple 3#Negate 2#Dissolve 3#Drown in Sorrow 2#Pharika's Cure 2#Liliana Vess Round 1 I went 2-1 vs some u/w heroic deck. Game 1 I had a slow draw and he just walked over me with an unblockable 3/3 double striker that I could find removal for in time. Other 2 games I had disruption and managed to just land a courser and stabilize with either nissa or Kiora from there. Round 2 I went 1-2 vs mono black aggro. In hindsight I could have won if I had played slightly differently, but this matchup is really hard. Choices like what land to play on turn 1/2 basically made the games. I found decisions like turn 1 thoughtseize turn 3 caryatid and turn 4 drown in sorrow vs turn 2 caryatid turn 3 Drown in sorrow. I ended up going for the thoughtseize first line, figuring that if he has a thoughtseize, I probably want to pick it out of his hand, otherwise I don't get to play my drown ever. He ended up not having a thoughtseize in his opening 7, but drew one on his turn 3, sniping my drown in sorrow just in time and taking the game. Game 3 I played vs some Rabblemaster deck, and my deck performed as I wanted it to in the matchup. I went 2-0, getting early caryatid/courser into bileblight and drown in sorrow in games 1 and 2 respectively. In game 2 Nylea's disciple from the sideboard helped stabilizing my lifetotal vs his burn. Ended up on 5 life when I won, having gained exactly 5 by playing the disciple with a courser and caryatid on the board. For next time, I'm probably going to cut 1 sultai charm and the silence the believers to add 2 dig through time. I'm also tempted to cut 2 forest for 2 green fetch lands. The fatch/courser interaction was really sweet, and I think I want more of it. Unfortunately I didn't get to play against any abzan midrangy decks, so I didn't get to really test how well Ashiok does there. Any tips/comments/questions are welcome! | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I ended up cutting Ashiok out of that deck and your Delve support is shaky to put 2 Dig Through Times. Silence is probably the card you want out the most. | ||
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Tarias
Netherlands480 Posts
On the topic of forest/fetch, I think that the Nissa interaction is about as negligible as thinning. The biggest downside I'd see for the fetch is the possibility of drawing them when I don't have any forests left in my deck. The reason they are so sweet is that they allow me to shuffle away whatever crap Courser is telling me I have on the top of my deck. Like in my game 3 today my opponent had no creatures on the board, 2 cards in hand and I had very low life. I had bile blight on the top of my deck and ended up cracking a fetch eot to find something else. Got a disciple on top to get out of burn range. Maybe I got overly lucky with my fetch/courers today, but it seems like the upside outweighs the Nissa interaction, which is going to be less frequent anyways.I play 2 nissa vs 4 courses, and the nissa interaction will only be different once I draw the 4th card out of 2 fetch/3 forest. I agree on the silence, I thought I'd be casting it for 7 more often, but in the games I played so far I barely got to 7 mana, and if I did the game was already over by that point anyways. Maybe I'd want it more in grindy matchups vs other g/b decks. What did you end up putting in instead of the ashioks? Did you do a lot of testing with the deck? I'm curious how you found the matchups against other g/b decks. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 27 2014 10:14 Tarias wrote: Did you get to try Ashiok in the matchup vs more midrangy creature decks? Seems like it's really good there. And just from playing the deck today I feel it's reasonable to assume I can often cast dig through times as a FoF on turn 4-5 if I want to. I wouldn't play it expecting to play it on turn 2 for 2 mana. I'd play it to dig for some answers on turn 5-6 for like 3-4 if I end up not having to use my removal that turn. I think the fact it's an instant is very relevant. On the topic of forest/fetch, I think that the Nissa interaction is about as negligible as thinning. The biggest downside I'd see for the fetch is the possibility of drawing them when I don't have any forests left in my deck. The reason they are so sweet is that they allow me to shuffle away whatever crap Courser is telling me I have on the top of my deck. Like in my game 3 today my opponent had no creatures on the board, 2 cards in hand and I had very low life. I had bile blight on the top of my deck and ended up cracking a fetch eot to find something else. Got a disciple on top to get out of burn range. Maybe I got overly lucky with my fetch/courers today, but it seems like the upside outweighs the Nissa interaction, which is going to be less frequent anyways.I play 2 nissa vs 4 courses, and the nissa interaction will only be different once I draw the 4th card out of 2 fetch/3 forest. I agree on the silence, I thought I'd be casting it for 7 more often, but in the games I played so far I barely got to 7 mana, and if I did the game was already over by that point anyways. Maybe I'd want it more in grindy matchups vs other g/b decks. What did you end up putting in instead of the ashioks? Did you do a lot of testing with the deck? I'm curious how you found the matchups against other g/b decks. Ashiok really isn't. The only match up you want it in is control mirrors. Mid range decks don't give a shit about it, they'll let it tick up and play threats. Like if they go turn 2 Carytid into Courser or 4 drop, what does Ashiok actually do? It doesn't get you card advantage, it doesn't net you cards until you exile something worthwhile and then you have to wait at turn to play it., just doesn't do anything. As for the fetch interactions with Courser, you could have easily flipped into nothing and they played a threat like Rabblemaster. It's nice, but there's no reason to play fetches for single colors. What happens if you need the card on top and you need to crack fetchland then? The interaction with Nissa is minor, but having lands to take out for her ultimate is a thing. | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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annedeman
Netherlands350 Posts
On September 27 2014 10:34 Judicator wrote: Ashiok really isn't. The only match up you want it in is control mirrors. Mid range decks don't give a shit about it, they'll let it tick up and play threats. Like if they go turn 2 Carytid into Courser or 4 drop, what does Ashiok actually do? It doesn't get you card advantage, it doesn't net you cards until you exile something worthwhile and then you have to wait at turn to play it., just doesn't do anything. As for the fetch interactions with Courser, you could have easily flipped into nothing and they played a threat like Rabblemaster. It's nice, but there's no reason to play fetches for single colors. What happens if you need the card on top and you need to crack fetchland then? The interaction with Nissa is minor, but having lands to take out for her ultimate is a thing. dig is freaking amazing in that deck, just watch the latest CVM vs BBD video on starcitygames(after those games they felt 2 was not even enough), using fetches to "scry away" bad cards seems way more relevant to me then the interaction with nissa(the untap ability will be bad either way, and making it marginally better does not seem worthwile, especially because the first fetch is just the same as the first forest, the times you would have a forest less by playing one of the green sources fetch is really really small(at which point you would have 4 forest in play already, and when you get near ultimate range you should be in a position you are winning anyway). i do not think i would play a fetch without dig, but i also feel like if you are not playing atleast 2 dig through time thats just not correct(and every single mana reduction is already more relevant then increasing the untap ability as you very rarely want to use that now it will still only untap like 1-2 lands(and only green sources to boot), the life payment seem more relevant though). scrying and fetches is definatly a slight negative interaction but also easy to play around by cracking your fetchland before playing the scry, or playing the scryland before the turn you are going to play the fetchland. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
Played a very loose version of Bug Delver (Sultai Delve) to see how few tapped lands I could get away with. Couldn't get a few cards on time but I don't think they were that huge a deal. List: + Show Spoiler + 4 Sylvan Caryatid 4 Satyr Wayfinder 2 Rakshasa Deathdealer 4 Courser of Kruphix 2 Nyx Weaver 4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant 1 Polukranos, World Eater 2 Nissa, Worldwaker 1 Sultai Ascendancy 4 Treasure Cruise 3 Hero's Downfall 2 Murderous Cut 2 Bile Blight 3 Llanowar Wastes 3 Yavimaya Coast 4 Polluted Delta 2 Opulent Palace 2 Wooded Foothills 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 4 Forest 3 Island 3 Swamp SB: 3 Nylea's Disciple 1 Polukranos 1 Hero's Downfall 3 Thoughtseize 1 Garruk 2 Negate 2 Drown In Sorrow 1 Whip of Erebos 1 Liliana Vess Sideboard was pretty much a binder pull at the last second zzz Beat a bunch of random creature decks, lost to Gw Nykthos and Sultai control. The Nyxthos deck would need some retooling to beat consistently. The BUG deck felt very beatable but I flooded g1 and g3 I missed my 4th land drop to keep me from getting Sidisi going on, which kept me from fighting over his Sphinx which eventually killed me. Felt very good against small creature decks and non-black midrange so we'll see. Friends going to a TCG 5k and the SCG is this weekend so we'll see how the format shakes up. | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
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